7 WS Skillchain (New SAM WS Chains)

[Sabaron]

The new Samurai Ability, Sekkanoki, allows a Samurai to use only 100% TP on one WS. Regardless of casting time/recast, etc. , this significantly alters the methodology behind the Samurai's use of the Two-hour ability, Meikyo Shisui giving rise to the following technique:

1. Store TP to 200%
2. Sekkanoki
3. WS
4. WS
5. Meikyo Shisui
6. WS
7. Meditate
8. WS
9. WS
10. WS
11. Icarus Wing
12. WS

That's a 7 WS Skillchain. Is/are there weaponskill combinations that a SAM could use to create 6 SCs in a row using this technique? If so, list and elaborate. It is quite likely that successive SAM chaining like this (in conjunction with MB) will be used to defeat NMs.

[Tomato_Kai]

I haven't seen the full functionality of Sekkanoki, but is there any particular reason you couldn't store TP up to 300% before tossing Sekkanoki? Get 3 WS off instead of just two?

Also: working on SC now.

[Zempten]

I haven't seen the full functionality of Sekkanoki, but is there any particular reason you couldn't store TP up to 300% before tossing Sekkanoki? Get 3 WS off instead of just two?

Also: working on SC now.

You'd only get 2 WS in no matter what your TP is at after 200% and with Sekkanoki. The first one will use 100% TP and the 2nd WS will consume whatever other TP you have.

I think a solo Light SC maybe possible with relic Head and Hands.

160% TP
Sekkanoki
Med
Yuki
2 ticks (or 1 depending on if you hit again)
Gekko
Whatever amount of ticks left on Med & hits
Kasha

Note: I know that it gives up to 180% but it's not always guarenteed so I didn't factor it.

[Dymlos]

Only way I could see that to work is with Soboro and /DRG sub.

Store 300 TP
Sekkanoki
WS
WS
Meditate
Jump
(if enough TP to WS) WS
Meikyo Shisui
WS
WS
WS
Icarus Wing
WS.

[Armando]

Sabaron, that's only 6 WS =P

Anyways, it's always possible to do a single, continuous, X-WS Skillchain using only Great Katana by using Jinpu->Jinpu as fillers, looping back and forth between Scission and Detonation.

[Zempten]

That's a 7 WS Skillchain. Is/are there weaponskill combinations that a SAM could use to create 6 SCs in a row using this technique? If so, list and elaborate. It is quite likely that successive SAM chaining like this (in conjunction with MB) will be used to defeat NMs.

A SAM could do.....
Frag: Yuki -> Gekko
Fusion: Gekko -> Kasha
Light: Yuki -> Gekko -> Kasha

I don't think anything beyond those 3 are worth using in a SC. So basically with 7 WS you can either get

2 Lvl 3 (Light)
2 Lvl 2 (Frag/Fusion) & 1 Lvl 3 (Light)
3 Lvl 2 (Frag/Fusion)

Also as Armado said, it's only 6 but it can be 7 with Meditate like this as well. This can be done without Soboro & DRG SJ

200% TP
Sekkanoki
WS
WS
2HR
WS
Meditate
WS
WS
WS
Icarus Wing
WS

[MrMageo]

heres a list of consecutive skill chains the longest concsecutive chain i bothered to find, (if TP was possible to keep at 100 possibly with a party of sams feeding TP you could pretty well go forever)

Tachi: Enpi > Kagero > Liquefaction
Kagero > Goten > Fusion
Goten > Enpi > Distortion
Enpi > Jinpu > Distortion
Jinpu > Kasha > Gravitation
Kasha > Yuki > Detonation
Yuki > Koki > Fragmentation
Koki > Kagero > Fusion

and repeat

[Armando]

I don't think anything beyond those 3 are worth using in a SC. So basically with 7 WS you can either getThe thing is, the more (consecutive) skillchains you make, the stronger each gets. It's possible that using less strong WS to make consecutive SCs, you'd get more damage overall. Depends a lot on how bad your resists are though.

[Dymlos]

Hopefully the SC fix is noticeable and they don't resist 90% of the time.

[Zempten]

The thing is, the more (consecutive) skillchains you make, the stronger each gets. It's possible that using less strong WS to make consecutive SCs, you'd get more damage overall. Depends a lot on how bad your resists are though.

Well my main point was Yuki, Gekko, and Kasha's modifiers are the highest of the previous GK WS. Also I don't think consecutive SC works for the OP's questions of combining MBs in there as well. I may be wrong though there. I don't know how far up consecutive SCs can get, but so far . . .this is the HIGHEST SC DMG I've gotten on my SAM so far. It was off someone else's WS and if you can't see it, it's a 1606 Light SC

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/Zempten/img_20080210_212357.png

If we want to take Shiki though, technically a SAM could WS 7 + (1*n) where N is the number of SAMs you can get into your PT.

[Callisto]

heres a list of consecutive skill chains the longest concsecutive chain i bothered to find, (if TP was possible to keep at 100 possibly with a party of sams feeding TP you could pretty well go forever)

Tachi: Enpi > Kagero > Liquefaction
Kagero > Goten > Fusion
Goten > Enpi > Distortion
Enpi > Jinpu > Distortion
Jinpu > Kasha > Gravitation
Kasha > Yuki > Detonation
Yuki > Koki > Fragmentation
Koki > Kagero > Fusion

and repeat

Doesn't work exactly like that, Fusion does not go into Distortion, it's the Transfixion end of Goten tha allows you to do Goten > Enpi for Distortion. The only way to pull this off would be a way to find a continuous string of filler Lv. 1 SC's for the first 4 or 5, then close out with Lv. 2 > Lv. 3 the same way you do a 4-step light or dark with Meikyo Shisui. I'll have a look at it rq and see if I can figure it out.
______________________________
Add: I'll try to work backwards a bit, starting w/ a 4 step Light and seeing if we can find 3 filler WS that will end on Reverberation, which would be needed to do Yuki onto for Induration so that you can go Gekko > Kasha and finish on Light.

1) Jinpu(Scission)
2) Jinpu(Detonation)
3) Jinpu(Scission)
4) Koki(Reverberation)
5) Yuki(Induration)
6) Gekko(Fragmentation)
7) Kasha(Light)

Shazam?

[MrMageo]

that does it ^^ i totally forgot about the chains riding together i just ran down a list i have through excitement.

[Tomato_Kai]

Store 300 TP
Sekkanoki
WS - Tachi: Jinpu
WS - Tachi: Kagero (SC: Liquefaction)
Meditate
Jump
WS - Tachi: Jinpu (SC: Scission)
Meikyo Shisui
WS - Tachi: Koki (SC: Reverberation)
WS - Tachi: Yukikaze (SC: Induration)
WS - Tachi: Gekko (SC: Fragmentation)
Icarus Wing
WS - Tachi: Kasha (SC: Light)

While I'm sure you could think of ways to get more total lights and so, I don't think it's possible without having Tachi: Kaiten or breaking the SC chain.

By the time you hit Kasha, light should be doing ridiculous amounts of damage.


How does the order look, folks?

[Callisto]

Store 300 TP
Sekkanoki
WS - Tachi: Jinpu
WS - Tachi: Kagero (SC: Liquefaction)
Meditate
Jump
WS - Tachi: Jinpu (SC: Scission)
Meikyo Shisui
WS - Tachi: Koki (SC: Reverberation)
WS - Tachi: Yukikaze (SC: Induration)
WS - Tachi: Gekko (SC: Fragmentation)
Icarus Wing
WS - Tachi: Kasha (SC: Light)

While I'm sure you could think of ways to get more total lights and so, I don't think it's possible without having Tachi: Kaiten or breaking the SC chain.

By the time you hit Kasha, light should be doing ridiculous amounts of damage.


How does the order look, folks?

That should work the same as mine, just subbing in Liquification for Detonation, still Lv. 1 so should be fine, I'll try to find a Dark rq.
______________________________
Ok...

1) Enpi(Transfixion/Scission)
2) Koki(Reverberation)
3) Koki(Impaction)
4) Jinpu(Detonation)
5) Jinpu(Scission)
6) Kasha(Compression)
7) Gekko(Darkness)

[Zempten]

Say we theoretically have a mob low enough to not resist SCs at all but enough HP to take enough DMG from the max amount of WS from a SAM. What's the increase in DMG per SC for consecutive SCs?

[Tomato_Kai]

Ugh.

I made a little mistake. Using Tachi: Jinpu would be relatively useless without having warrior subbed, so the "Jump" would be impossible. That said; using a pair of Jinpu's *and* meditate should put me back at 100 tp.

[Zempten]

I'm not understanding this fixiation (sp?) on /DRG for the purpose of 7 WSs. Can someone explain please?

[Callisto]

Say we theoretically have a mob low enough to not resist SCs at all but enough HP to take enough DMG from the max amount of WS from a SAM. What's the increase in DMG per SC for consecutive SCs?

From wiki: http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/rprice80/SCs.jpg

So we're looking at 50 > 60 > 70 > 80 > 150 > 225+ if 7 is possible.
______________________________
I'm not understanding this fixiation (sp?) on /DRG for the purpose of 7 WSs. Can someone explain please?

For using Jump/High Jump in between WS' for TP, faster than 2 normal GKt swings by alot

[MrMageo]

heck 6 chains should be possible and 7 or more easily if you have a few sams willing to drop some TP on you, 2 sams could easily skill chain 12-14 times now that would be disgusting.

[Zempten]

From wiki:

So we're looking at 50 > 60 > 70 > 80 > 150 > 225+ if 7 is possible.
______________________________


For using Jump/High Jump in between WS' for TP, faster than 2 normal GKt swings by alot

Ah, I see thanks.

Meditate's extra tick from relic head and hands takes care of that though from my experiences.

[Tomato_Kai]

Yeah... this is what one sam can do solo...

I'm wondering if this combined with the new changes to haste are going to make us a more definitive DD class moving forward.

[Nuriko]

How about this:

Kasha (fusion, compression)
Yukikaze - detonation
Enpi or Jinpu - scission
Gekko - reverberation
Yukikaze - induration
Gekko - fragmentation
Kasha - light

Save for the one WS, that's all Yuki/Gekko/Kasha ... and if you could add more TP, you could extend it pretty much forever. Using Kasha instead of Gekko after the second Yuki gets you right back to the start...

[Zempten]

LS mates confirmed the new JA to be 5 min recast

[Tomato_Kai]

LS mates confirmed the new JA to be 5 min recast

Holy... only 5 mins?

That means on the smaller scale (7 SC is pretty ridiculous, and honestly, really not going to be useful considering most monsters it would be used on -dont have that much hp-) that you could potentially pair it with SATA for an amazing damage burst.

200 TP, Sekkanoki - SATA Tachi: Gekko > Tachi: Kasha (SC: Light)

Or, you could start with 200 tp and just toss Jinpu a few times and mix it in with meditate as a war sub, building up SC levels.

Sounds fun already, can't wait to get home and try it.

[Callisto]

That should work the same as mine, just subbing in Liquification for Detonation, still Lv. 1 so should be fine, I'll try to find a Dark rq.
______________________________
Ok...

1) Enpi(Transfixion/Scission)
2) Koki(Reverberation)
3) Koki(Impaction)
4) Jinpu(Detonation)
5) Jinpu(Scission)
6) Kasha(Compression)
7) Gekko(Darkness)

SAM friend offers this as a stronger Darkness, I'll try to work a similar Light out...


Jinpu(Scission)
Gekko(Reverberation)
Yuki(Induration)
Kasha(Compression)
Yuki(Induration)
Kasha(Gravitation)
Gekko(Darkness)Keep in mind the highest recorded SC is currently 6, no clue if the 7th will actually chain.

[MrMageo]

just add in another teir 1 filler and repeat for as many SC you think you can get.

[Dymlos]

Five minute recast? Damn that's pretty nice. A lot of people would figure it would be every 15-20 minutes since its potency.

[Callisto]

Ok let's see for stronger Light...

Yuki(Induration)
Kasha(Compression)
Jinpu(Scission)
Gekko(Reverberation)
Yuki(Induration)
Gekko(Fragmentation)
Kasha(Light)

[MrMageo]

really makes me want to level SAM now, but SCH is first me thinks

[Callisto]

I'm just stupidly anxious for Wednesday now, my Nyzul static has 2 SAMs lol, I want to see if we can obliterate bosses with a 6-step Light.

[MrMageo]

2x 6 step light and 12 MB's drool to be the BLM RDM or SCH in that group

[Callisto]

I think only RDM can pull that off, back before I became the main healer of the static I would Chainspell and MB all 3 SCs on a 4-step Light, if I was lucky I could get 2 Thunder III's in on the final Light lol...

[Neomage]

1. Store TP to 200%
2. Sekkanoki
3. WS
4. WS
5. Meikyo Shisui
6. WS
7. WS
8. WS
9. Icarus Wing
10. WS

I count 6. Is there something I am missing? Nonetheless, it seems that this is the first step to making traditional parties viable again. If this ability is pre-37, any job /SAM could easily go over 100% TP waiting for a SC partner to get enough TP, without worrying about "wasting" TP. Now we just need to fix the playerbase mentality...

Even if it is post-37, it still helps with making SCs more viable, although SAM-only. Now we just need SE to lower resistance rates and we're all set!

EDIT: I think only RDM can pull that off, back before I became the main healer of the static I would Chainspell and MB all 3 SCs on a 4-step Light, if I was lucky I could get 2 Thunder III's in on the final Light lol...

A SCH/RDM (Or a RDM/SCH) could easily pull it off without chainspell as well. BLM may have a tougher time, and might have to drop down to Tier II nukes to land them all, or miss a few and burst every-other with a well-placed IV.

[MrMageo]

They annoinced they were lowering resistance rates so judging from that id say problem solved but its to early and not enough facts yet so ill just go by what GWB jr. would say in a premature situation "Mission Accomplished"

[Zempten]

The chance to resist damage from skill chains has been adjusted.

They already adjusted it

[Dymlos]

Has anyone been able to get on and SC yet to see how much damage you can do on average?

[Callisto]

I count 6. Is there something I am missing?

Yes, they just missed one, Meditate would give you a 4th WS in there before the Wing.

[Celeal]

I am wondering with SAM/DRG + Store TP build (food & gear) + Soboro, can we get 8 WS skillchain?

1) Start @ 200 TP
2) Sekkanoki
3) Tachi: Jinpu (WS #1)
4) Mediate
5) Before 1st tick of Mediate kicks in (very important), Tachi: Yukikaze (WS #2, Detonation)
6) While Mediate is still active: With TP returns from previous Tachi: Yukikaze, follow by a swing of G.Katana, then Jump + High Jump... as soon as TP reach 100%, squeeze in Tachi: Jinpu (WS #3, Scission)
7) Swing the mob until Mediate is over (combine with TP return from previous Tachi: Jinpu), at 100 TP use Tachi: Yukikaze (WS #4, Detonation)
8) Use SAM's 2 hour [300 TP]
9) Tachi: Jinpu (WS #5, Scission)
10) Tachi: Gekko (WS #6, Reverberation)
11) Tachi: Yukikaze (WS #7, Induration)
12) use Icaus Wing
13) Tachi: Gekko (WS #8, Fragmentation)

[Callisto]

I'm sure it's possible, especially with the occassional lag giving you an extra tic on med, but as stated before a large part of the concern is that it's unknown if you can even chain past 6 WS', if it just dies automatically at 6. Need some SAMs to test this in Besieged or something.

[Neomage]

I'm sure it's possible, especially with the occassional lag giving you an extra tic on med, but as stated before a large part of the concern is that it's unknown if you can even chain past 6 WS', if it just dies automatically at 6. Need some SAMs to test this in Besieged or something.

I'm not really sure this is a good idea. A lot of people just go crazy with WS in besieged which could mess up a SC. Pulling a Campaign monster away from the crowds and trying on that would be a better idea.

[Malacite]

Gekko -> Yuki (Induration) -> Gekko (Fragmentation) -> Kasha (Light) -> Kaiten (Light)

[Callisto]

That's only 5 lol, and it's confirmed that you can't do a continuous Light by stringing multiple Relic WS', while you can very feasibly rip off a 6 WS light, possibly 7 or 8 without needing Amano...the question is if you can continue to chain past the 6th weaponskill at all, or if it just dies there.

[Sabaron]

Sabaron, that's only 6 WS =P

Anyways, it's always possible to do a single, continuous, X-WS Skillchain using only Great Katana by using Jinpu->Jinpu as fillers, looping back and forth between Scission and Detonation.

How boring is that to burst on... Bleh... Stone... Aero...

I was looking for something more interesting. Of course, there's Tachi: Kaiten... Doesn't it have "Continuing Light"? So you could do:

Kaiten > Kaiten > Kaiten > Kaiten > Kaiten > Kaiten > Kaiten

I forgot the {Meditate} one... edited. {Mistake} {I'm sorry}

For the Magic Burst portion (extra credit basically) the idea is to cycle elements to as nice a variety as possible so burst can be on as high of a tier as possible. Obviously the cycle will be too fast for a single BLM to burst everything but if you can one BLM bursting on 3/6 or so the damage should be sickening.

Of course if you look at it with AMII bursting...since all AMII have the same base damage, you could do Armando's effective-yet-boring Jinpu chain provided you can actually find a BLM with Quake II or Tornado II.

[Malacite]

Last time I checked, you can not extend Light/Dark beyond the 2nd.

[Sabaron]

Last time I checked, you can not extend Light/Dark beyond the 2nd.

You can't, but the Relic Weapon Skills like Tachi: Kaiten from Amanomurakumo have a special effect called "Continuing Light" or "Continuing Darkness" that allows them to create a level 3 Skillchain of the same type off of an already existing Level 3 skill chain. I don't have a relic weapon so I don't know if you can do it more than once. Of course, if you could we'd have already seen 5-chains of it.

[Yellow Mage]

{Good bye.} TP{Burn}

{Hello!} {Skillchain}{Burn}

{Samurai} {Blue Mage} {Dancer} {Yes, please.}
______________________________
I don't have a relic weapon so I don't know if you can do it more than once.

I've read somewhere that "Continuing" Lvl3 Skillchains from Relic Weaponskills can only be done once.

[Malacite]

Pretty sure it's on the wiki somewhere.

[Tomato_Kai]

Honestly, I don't see a huge change in the way other classes SC unless MBs and SC's have been drastically changed. I see this as a significant change to Sams, Blus, and maybe the occasional Mnk or Drk.

[Sabaron]

Honestly, I don't see a huge change in the way other classes SC unless MBs and SC's have been drastically changed. I see this as a significant change to Sams, Blus, and maybe the occasional Mnk or Drk.


Resistance to SC damage has been changed. Therefore, it is possible that SE has made tossing an SC more valuable than saving the extra 20% TP that you waste while waiting for an SC partner to build TP. It also gives all SAMs a free Self-SC (Just like BLU already has) every 5 minutes.

Now all we need is a screen shot of a log and a nice little video. I'm hoping for adequate damage on the ramp and a beautiful 225% Light/Darkness at the end.

[nanatsu]

You can't, but the Relic Weapon Skills like Tachi: Kaiten from Amanomurakumo have a special effect called "Continuing Light" or "Continuing Darkness" that allows them to create a level 3 Skillchain of the same type off of an already existing Level 3 skill chain. I don't have a relic weapon so I don't know if you can do it more than once. Of course, if you could we'd have already seen 5-chains of it.

All Weapon Skill Attributes can be used to create a Skillchain except Level 3 attributes from a Relic Weapons Weapon Skill (e.g. Scourge). These powerful Weapon Skills may be used to create a Level 3 Skillchain by immediately following a Level 3 Weapon Skill attribute (either from a Lv.2 created Skillchain or another Relic Weapon), however no futher Skillchain may be created from the subsequent Skillchain.

Source: Skillchain - FFXIclopedia - a Wikia Gaming wiki (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Skillchain) under Linked Skillchains

[Callisto]

I can't do pics/vid b/c I'm on 360, but we're definitely going to put a 6, possibly 7-WS SC to the test tomorrow night in Nyzul Isle, we have 2 SAMs in our static so the 6 is automatic barring Khimaira being a jerk w/ Mist, 200 TP > JA > WS WS > Wing > WS for each SAM, possibly each one getting a Meditate in as well.

How long does it take for Meditate to get you to 100 TP?

[Celeal]

Without AF hat, 20 TP per *tick*. I am not sure the exact time per tick.

[Tomato_Kai]

15 seconds for 100 tp, or 20tp/3sec. Assuming that it works as I recall, and that my recollection is infact, valid.

[Callisto]

That might be cutting it too close for a 7th, for now I'll probably ask them to try:

SAM1: Sekkowhatever > Kasha > Jinpu > Wing > Gekko
into
SAM2: Sekkowhatever > Yuki > Gekko > Kasha

Or the same thing, but for Darkness, not that MB matters b/c my RDM nukes don't do crap against the AU HNMs, but can have the BLU try to MB Eyes on Me or something. At any rate I'll get the #'s of the log or have one of the SAMs screencap it and post the damage so we can see how the new SC resists look on a 6-WS chain vs. a relatively difficult mob.

[Tomato_Kai]

Truth be told, I'd like to see the effectiveness of a smaller WS set.

200 tp > Sekkanoki > Jinpu > Meditate > (before first tic) Kasha > Jump/HighJump > Gekko.

This will produce two SC, Fragmentation and then Darkness by order. Yes, you can do a light SC, but without Jinpu being included somewhere, I don't see it being possible to accumulate enough TP without items or 2hr. Still, that is pretty ridiculous, a self started tier 3 sc every 5 minutes? Good lawd!

Also: Sams are gonna have to be the WS Nazi's of the parties from now on. If I were a sam in a smaller group, I'd be pissed if someone messed up my beautiful macro chain. XD

[Malacite]

but without Jinpu being included somewhere, I don't see it being possible to accumulate enough TP without items or 2hr

What kind of crap SAM are you that you can't get 1% more TP? Or did you forget multi-hit WS only give 1 TP for each hit after the 1st?

Hachiman Set {You Can Have This.}

[Celeal]

What kind of crap SAM are you that you can't get 1% more TP? Or did you forget multi-hit WS only give 1 TP for each hit after the 1st?

Hachiman Set {You Can Have This.}

TBH, you can convey the same idea with courtesy.

I am not trying to offend you, but there is an increase of enmity on this forum since the March 10th updates ^^;

[Sabaron]

Hmm.. This thread seems to have picked up some negative energy for no apparent reason...

* emits hippie vibe....

:thumbsup:

Just say "Om..."

and then think about 3-WS Chains with Meditate and Sekkanoki.

and then make a video...and capture some logs...

[Zempten]

TBH, you can convey the same idea with courtesy.

I am not trying to offend you, but there is an increase of enmity on this forum since the March 10th updates ^^;

Seriously, people just LOVE to bitch >.>

[Malacite]

^^; you're right. Sorry.

@_ @ I got called into work 3 hours early today. I'm just stressed.

[VZX]

If you ever watch Noilluire Meditate, she creates SC continuously from the lower level

Enpi > Hobaku > (Nothing) >
Goten > (Impaction) >
Kagero > (Liquefaction) >
Jinpuu > (Scission) >
Koki > (Reverberation) >
Yukikaze > (Induration) >
Gekko > (Fragmentation) >
Kasha > (Light)
Kaiten > (Light final)

You simply can do the bolded part

[Dymlos]

I wonder what gear she freaking has that allows her to have a 4-hit built.

[VZX]

It's better if you think she has 1000% TP tank

[Malacite]

4-hit build requires 2 things, but is possible;

1) A lot of +Store TP gear.

2) Samurai's Roll. With SAM in PT an XI will give +50 Store TP.

[Dymlos]

I checked FFXI calculator and it's impossible to get a 4-hit built with a 450 delay GKT. The TP per hit caps at 23.0 per swing which is still a 5-hit built. The only way to get a 4-hit built is if you had Futsuno Mitama GKT. But if you're really focusing yourself on a 4-hit built then you're gimping yourself big time.

[MrMageo]

hmmm i woul say doing a multi WS SC is hardly gimping ones self