A crazy SMN job ability idea: Psychic Absorb and Psychic Project

[Pteryx]

SE seems to think that avatars should melee to gain TP to power up their pacts. Look at the descriptions for the merit pacts, for example. However, as it stands that's unworkable since 1) avatar melee isn't cost-effective damage and 2) one needs to dismiss an avatar between fights anyway to conserve and recover MP, losing all that TP before it's even built to a sufficient level. Most of our ideas for fixing avatar melee have been focused on solving problem #1. What if we fixed problem #2 instead?

My thought is this: give SMN a new pair of job abilities on a shared 30-second timer. One transfers the TP built up by an avatar to the SMN (Psychic Absorb). The other transfers the TP the SMN has to their avatar (Psychic Project). If used intelligently, these two abilities combined could make having avatars melee to build TP to power up Blood Pacts actually work. It could even enable crazy things like letting a SMN run up front long enough to use Spirit Taker to get some of their MP back.

Thoughts? -- Pteryx

[Yellow Mage]

So crazy, it might work.

Course, it may prove fruitless if the avatars still suck, anyway. :P

[IfritnoItazura]

I'd like it more automatic; have the avatar auto-magically absorbs SMN's TP on summon, and regain any previous TP it had before the last release (as long as the SMN didn't zone).

Or, a job ability which slowly depletes a SMN's HP but increase the avatar's melee damage and accuracy. Make the amount of depletion increase with level, roughly matching progression of WHM's Regen's. (Matching Souleater's recast and duration would be fine.)

[Rain_Blade]

SE seems to think that avatars should melee to gain TP to power up their pacts. Look at the descriptions for the merit pacts, for example. However, as it stands that's unworkable since 1) avatar melee isn't cost-effective damage and 2) one needs to dismiss an avatar between fights anyway to conserve and recover MP, losing all that TP before it's even built to a sufficient level. Most of our ideas for fixing avatar melee have been focused on solving problem #1. What if we fixed problem #2 instead?

My thought is this: give SMN a new pair of job abilities on a shared 30-second timer. One transfers the TP built up by an avatar to the SMN (Psychic Absorb). The other transfers the TP the SMN has to their avatar (Psychic Project). If used intelligently, these two abilities combined could make having avatars melee to build TP to power up Blood Pacts actually work. It could even enable crazy things like letting a SMN run up front long enough to use Spirit Taker to get some of their MP back.

Thoughts? -- Pteryx

In my opinion, it would depend. In an experience party (IT, VT, and few Ts), a Summoner's Spirit Taker doesn't really gain much even with 300 TP. As a solo (not soloing for experiencing such as fighting bombs or any VT or IT that explodes; mainly just stuff like farming, certain missions, etc), it would be very good even though when it comes to farming you can do the spirit taker-for-your-mp-back-fast easily. On a downside like the experience-party statement, I don't know if it helps the job in al levels since the idea relys on a weapon skill that requires to be over lvl 66 with a staff skill of 215. It woudn't be quite fair for the people who are below 66 and don't want to use so much time to get to level 215 staff skill 'cause I know it was a pain to get. Overall, I like the idea if it was combined with a chance to get Spirit Taker early and to boost it's effectiveness against higher monsters. It would be so awesome if the damage varied with MP (similar to Spirits Within).

[Yellow Mage]

@ Rain: I think the whole Idea was to keep TP stored for avatars, with the Summoner being the storage subject. Summoners give back the saved TP to the Avatar, and BAM! A Blood Pact that leaves the mob hurtin'.

Or, at least, is the theory the OP follows.

[Ziero]

In my opinion, it would depend. In an experience party (IT, VT, and few Ts), a Summoner's Spirit Taker doesn't really gain much even with 300 TP. As a solo (not soloing for experiencing such as fighting bombs or any VT or IT that explodes; mainly just stuff like farming, certain missions, etc), it would be very good even though when it comes to farming you can do the spirit taker-for-your-mp-back-fast easily. On a downside like the experience-party statement, I don't know if it helps the job in al levels since the idea relys on a weapon skill that requires to be over lvl 66 with a staff skill of 215. It woudn't be quite fair for the people who are below 66 and don't want to use so much time to get to level 215 staff skill 'cause I know it was a pain to get. Overall, I like the idea if it was combined with a chance to get Spirit Taker early and to boost it's effectiveness against higher monsters. It would be so awesome if the damage varied with MP (similar to Spirits Within).

...uh, the Spirit Taker thing would be nothing but a nice side bonus and far from the main use of this change according to this idea. So really, it's far from even being close to being unfair to those without spirit taker.

To me, it seems like a nice idea, but only if the effects of TP really made a noticable boost to an Avatars damage pacts. Personally, I don't know much about Smn so I can't judge myself so maybe someone who does know could chime in on that point. But if it gave Smns a reason to let their avatar melee without wasting the TP they gained then I think it's a great idea.

[Rain_Blade]

@ Rain: I think the whole Idea was to keep TP stored for avatars, with the Summoner being the storage subject. Summoners give back the saved TP to the Avatar, and BAM! A Blood Pact that leaves the mob hurtin'.

Or, at least, is the theory the OP follows.

Oops. :lipseal: I deserve a bonk on the head. :o

[Karinya]

I'd go a step further. Forget Psychic Absorb; make it an automatic property of Dismiss. Psychic Project should still be voluntary, though, because there are some solo times when you'd want to keep your TP. Then you can put it on a minute timer (which just happens to match BP:Rage).

I wonder if there are situations when it would make sense to go SMN/SAM (assuming an endgame situation where there are plenty of healers around anyway)... probably not unless TP had a lot more effect on BPs than I think it does.


P.S. Elementals have no TP moves; maybe projecting TP into them could make them cast more often? It's their main weakness right now, they just take too damn long to cast anything.

[Yellow Mage]

Also @ Rain: who's that in your avatar?

[Rain_Blade]

Also @ Rain: who's that in your avatar?

An R&B singer named Aaliyah. She died in 2001.

[Malacite]

>. > then shouldn't that read "Aaliyah was more than a woman." ?

[Rain_Blade]

>. > then shouldn't that read "Aaliyah was more than a woman." ?

If I say "was", to me it would mean she no longer is more than a woman now. Her title still lives on, so I prefer "is."

[Yellow Mage]

Pics in sig in Spoiler Tag, please.

[Rain_Blade]

I resized it if that's better. (sorry mods for being off topic lol)

[Yellow Mage]

(sorry mods for being off topic lol)

/ditto

[Bolla]

Thats a nice ideal it might work.

[Grizzlebeard]

If I say "was", to me it would mean she no longer is more than a woman now. Her title still lives on, so I prefer "is."

Doesn't really matter how you interpret it, she's dead, therefore, the correct word to use is was.

As for the OP's suggestions, they sound pretty solid and for once not the usual ridiculously overpowered abilities other people tend to come up with.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Bolla - its an "idea." An "ideal" is something totally different.

That aside, this idea sounds similar to the way one could power up Aeons for their Overdrives in FFX. There was a move called Entrust that allowed you to tranfer the content on one character's Overdrive bar to other party members. Yuna's overdrive would transfer her Overdrive to an Aeon by default.

Basically, Entrust was Shikikoyo.

This idea would do something Similar to Soul Surge, minus other attribute bonuses and instead just give the SMN TP from the pet and the follow up ability would be similar to Yuna's Overdrive, giving that Avatar TP for a pact.

This, in a way, would open up /SAM and /DNC subs to SMN and also give SAMs another job they could consider using Shikikoyo towards. Additionally, from /SAM, a SMN could draw benefit from Seigan and Meditate. SMNs, by nature, use staves, so Seigan would offer them some means of additional physical protection.

My only concerns would be that (1) it would encourage some SMNs to become meleetards and (2) Thier endgame role would reflect what DNC and MNK already have to deal with on endgame mobs - get tagged out pump up Chi Blast or your TP bar and then get tagged back in.

Otherwise, it sounds like a modest and balanced improvement to SMN.

[MrMageo]

That idea is awesome, it is moderatly balanced and would provide a reason for leaving the avatr out a little bit longer if only to build TP for the next BP. I could see something like this as a huge benefit to SMN, I dont think it would break them just enhance them (kinda like SAM's new ability). This idea seems well thought out good job.

Im curious however, do you suggest a return rate of 1:1 or possibly 2:1. I think 1:1 could push the limit on brokeness, but if it were 2:1 it would make it a little safer, and wouldnt encourage some SMN to melee. Either way It ould be a great way to buff up the power of BP's for a fair cost, (as opposed to the seperate timer in that other thread) Would encourage SMN's to utilize their SMN's more for a reason, and overall assist the party in additional ways.

[Yellow Mage]

Bolla - its an "idea." An "ideal" is something totally different.

I thanked you for this and this alone.

[Rain_Blade]

Doesn't really matter how you interpret it, she's dead, therefore, the correct word to use is was.

As for the OP's suggestions, they sound pretty solid and for once not the usual ridiculously overpowered abilities other people tend to come up with.

George Washington is the first president. George Washington was the first president. So, you're right. It doesn't really matter (well, it actually does in certain sentences). Therefore, who cares? Lol. Seriously, I thought this was over. =/

*looks away from further discussion of it* :rofl: I...am...so...shutchomouth!

[Nuriko]

My only concerns would be that (1) it would encourage some SMNs to become meleetards and (2) Thier endgame role would reflect what DNC and MNK already have to deal with on endgame mobs - get tagged out pump up Chi Blast or your TP bar and then get tagged back in.

Actually, in a recent Kirin run there was a MNK/WHM invited for Chi Blast and kept in because somebody else to erase the kiters was nice to have...