Looking for Christian LS

[HolyLion]

I am christian player and is looking for Christian LS on fairy server. My in-name game is Holylion. I look forward to join godly LS. Thanks

[DakAttack]

el oh el

You need religion because you don't know how to live life, I can understand that, but the game comes with a set of directions and a plot to follow that already includes a few different gods. Play it the way it was meant to be played.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

el oh el

You need religion because you don't know how to live life, I can understand that, but the game comes with a set of directions and a plot to follow that already includes a few different gods. Play it the way it was meant to be played.

This was needlessly rude. Tell us what glorious standard we should be living our lives by, Dak, I'm waiting to hear it since you apparently know better than the rest of us.

That said, its somewhat difficult to find religious groups within video games, but not entirely impossible. Good luck in your search. Nothing wrong with finding a group of like-minded people, its just wrong to be too clique-ish. You're bound to run into people that you won't mesh with often.

[Wise Donkey]

I am sure there is a good Christian population that plays FFXI, though I can't say I have seen them band together and form Linkshells before. Good luck in your search.

On a side note, Dak - you're a dick.

[Yellow Mage]

Doubt you'll find much of anything related to real-life religion in-game.

EDIT: pretty much what 'kitten and WD said: all of it.

[DakAttack]

This was needlessly rude. Tell us what glorious standard we should be living our lives by, Dak, I'm waiting to hear it since you apparently know better than the rest of us.

By your own standards. Live the sheep's life and die by the wolf's fang.

I was voted off the island, so see ya'll.

[Feba]

If you're so involved in your religion that you want to carry it over to fantasy worlds, this is not the game for you. FFXI not only has it's own gods, but they are extremely involved in much of the storyline.

Also, protip, stop surrounding yourself with likeminded people.

[Vyuru]

If you're so involved in your religion that you want to carry it over to fantasy worlds, this is not the game for you. FFXI not only has it's own gods, but they are extremely involved in much of the storyline.


It's not nessacerily for the religious reasons. Halo for the PC has Christian server, but that's more of a no smack talking/swearing/sexual stuff, more of an atmosphere kind of a thing. Which, given one of the LS I am sorta in, I can appreciate.

Probably gonna drop that pearl, I feel uncomfortable around some of those people. And some of them have invoked the Wrath of Vyuru to boot!!!

/ja "Summon Guivre" <me>

It's on now ;)

(Yes, I really do have a Summon Guivre JA)

[WovenDarkness]

If you're so involved in your religion that you want to carry it over to fantasy worlds, this is not the game for you. FFXI not only has it's own gods, but they are extremely involved in much of the storyline.

Also, protip, stop surrounding yourself with likeminded people.


"This game".... is for whomever sees fit to buy and play it. Feba, come on man, that's as bad as saying if your "X", you can't be/do "Y". Racism has the same mentality. So does sexism.....and many other ism's. 'ya hater, knock it off.:thumbsup:

Prediction on the life span of this thread: Short.

[Wise Donkey]

If you're so involved in your religion that you want to carry it over to fantasy worlds, this is not the game for you. FFXI not only has it's own gods, but they are extremely involved in much of the storyline.

Just because someone is Christian doesn't mean they are close-minded and offended easily.

[Feba]

"This game".... is for whomever sees fit to buy and play it. Feba, come on man, that's as bad as saying if your "X", you can't be/do "Y". Racism has the same mentality. So does sexism...

Oh please, you're accusing me of racism and sexism because I'm giving the guy some advice? There are plenty of xians playing ffxi, obviously, but if you're so obsessive about your religion that you want to bring it over to a game that has FANTASY RIGHT IN THE TITLE, ffxi's mythology and storyline makes it a very poor choice.

It's not nessacerily for the religious reasons.
Then he wouldn't need a religious linkshell, would he? There are plenty of family friendly shells out there he could ask for if that was his aim.
______________________________
Just because someone is Christian doesn't mean they are close-minded and offended easily.

Open minded people do not attempt to join groups of people who think the same thing they do in every part of their lives.

[JTF-Taru]

I don't believe in organised religion, however, this guy didn't ask to start a debate on the merits of faith based living or force his religion down anyone else's throat.

He started a thread asking for a specific type of LS. So unless you have a suitable pearl to offer him, there's not much point in people spamming the thread with their irrelevant opinions.

If religion in video games means so much to you, start a thread about it in an out of topic forum.

JTF

[Wise Donkey]

Open minded people do not attempt to join groups of people who think the same thing they do in every part of their lives.

I don't think FFXI is every part of their life, as you seem to be assuming here. Just because they seek a like-minded community does not mean they are not open-minded themselves. I'll admit there is a good chance that they are, but you are applying a stereotype blindly here.

[Feba]

I don't think FFXI is every part of their life,

No, but it's representative. Why would someone try to join a group about something completely unrelated to what they're doing otherwise?

Just because they seek a like-minded community does not mean they are not open-minded themselves.Yes, it does. Actively attempting to surround yourself with people that agree with you is about as close-minded as you get.

you are applying a stereotype blindly here.
Observations based on actions of the specific individual != Stereotypes.

[IfritnoItazura]

There are plenty of family friendly shells out there he could ask for if that was his aim.
Hmm. In many situations, there are no substantive differences between the labels "family friendly" and "Christian" in the minds of a good number of people, from what I've observed.

Anyway, there's nothing wrong with asking for a Christian LS, unless you belong to one of those churches whose practice including burning Harry Potter books for luring children to witchcraft and satanic worship (which is the same as witchcraft, I guess?). In that case, probably should not play FFXI to begin with.

Then again, I'm an atheist who thinks the Catholics are a sub-type of Christians, so what do I know? :P

[Murphie]

If you're so involved in your religion that you want to carry it over to fantasy worlds, this is not the game for you. FFXI not only has it's own gods, but they are extremely involved in much of the storyline.That's not really what it's about.

Also, protip, stop surrounding yourself with likeminded people.This is pretty stupid of you. People form linkshells in this game for a multitude of reasons. Being of a like mind is near the top of the list. Sharing a religion is just one example of said like-mindedness.

The OP was simply looking for a shell of people who share some of his beliefs. I haven't the slightest clue why some of you are so invested in telling him how wrong he is for that.

[WovenDarkness]

Oh please, you're accusing me of racism and sexism because I'm giving the guy some advice? There are plenty of xians playing ffxi, obviously, but if you're so obsessive about your religion that you want to bring it over to a game that has FANTASY RIGHT IN THE TITLE, ffxi's mythology and storyline makes it a very poor choice.

Actually, no. I'm not. I'm accusing you of having the same narrow minded attitude that breeds the same hate mongering as sexists and racists exhibit. I know the English language isn't lost on you Feba. Read what I'm writing. Not what you think I'm writing.

As far as it being a poor choice, that's only your opinion...which wasn't asked for. What was asked for was some advice on a Christian LS....which you didn't provide.

For the OP: I don't know of any Christian LS's out there. You might end up starting one up. I wish you the best of luck! :thumbsup:

[Murphie]

Just because people are identifying as Christian doesn't mean that they are preaching, or trying to bring their religion into the game world. They just want to be in a shell with other people who share their faith.

I mean, I'm not religious at all, but I can understand their motivations. I'm not sure where the disconnect is for some others.

Quite frankly, considering the responses he's gotten, I doubt the OP will even be back.

[Feba]

This is pretty stupid of you.

uh, no. Tell me, honestly, how many LS do you know that are made for 'likeminded' people, compared to ones just made for a specific purpose or for friends. And of those that are made for 'likeminded' people, how many of them are because the people think the same on an issue that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the game?

I'm accusing you of having the same narrow minded attitude that breeds the same hate mongering

Alright. Explain how looking at a person's own actions and stereotyping based on a group that someone has no control over being in are anything close to each other.
______________________________
Just because people are identifying as Christian doesn't mean that they are preaching,

And I'm not saying they are, I'm sure at least half the people that have posted in this thread are probably xian to some degree. The difference is, they don't try to make sure that every last person in their LS shares their beliefs. I mean hell, of the countries that have English speakers that FFXI has in it's playerbase, christianity is already the clear majority.

or trying to bring their religion into the game world. Yes, they are. Your LS is a place where you'll be almost all of your time in game, barring a few events where it's removed. Having anything from real life involved in your LS, be it religion, politics, or whatever else is trying to bring it into the game world.

[Murphie]

uh, no. Tell me, honestly, how many LS do you know that are made for 'likeminded' people, compared to ones just made for a specific purpose or for friends. And of those that are made for 'likeminded' people, how many of them are because the people think the same on an issue that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the game?I know of quite a few. I'm sorry that your experience with the game was so limited that you never encountered any.

And why does it have to have anything to do with the game? People join linkshells because they share common interests (outside the game), because they live in similar parts of the world, because they are around the same age, because they all prefer a certain kind of conversation/interaction. Who the hell are you to tell them that they're doing it wrong? Answer: You're nobody.

Alright. Explain how looking at a person's own actions and stereotyping based on a group that someone has no control over being in are anything close to each other.What? Make moar sense, Feba. For crying out loud.

[Armando]

WovenDarkness, Feba never said the OP can't/shouldn't join a Christian LS, or that he can't play FFXI. Feba's just giving him some advice. Regardless of the validity of the advice Feba's dispensing, I'm pretty sure this racist/sexist narrow-mindedness you're talkinga bout isn't a factor in the issue.

My 2 cents: HolyLion, you're going to have a very hard time finding a Christian LS. If you really want to, and you have some patience, you can probably find one. However, I'd recommend against it. These kinds of niche LS sound good on paper but generally don't work out in the sense that you can't do much stuff together, because 9/10 times there aren't enough members that can help you progress in the game.

It's like an All-Monk Linkshell. Sure, you may think it's cool, but what the heck are you going to do with that many MNKs? In the end, you'll probably end up having to find another LS either way (though nothing's stopping you from having multiple LS's.)

[Murphie]

And I'm not saying they are, I'm sure at least half the people that have posted in this thread are probably xian to some degree. The difference is, they don't try to make sure that every last person in their LS shares their beliefs. I mean hell, of the countries that have English speakers that FFXI has in it's playerbase, christianity is already the clear majority. Where are you getting this? Who said they were doing this? Or looking for this? Oh wait, just you.

There is a difference between "Hey, I'm looking for an LS of folks that share my faith." and "CHRISTIAN ONRY!"

Yes, they are. Your LS is a place where you'll be almost all of your time in game, barring a few events where it's removed. Having anything from real life involved in your LS, be it religion, politics, or whatever else is trying to bring it into the game world.Did you have a bowl of retarded for breakfast today? Not everyone shares your idea that you have to exclude all of real life to play an MMO. If you've ever talked about something that happened IRL, then you are guilty of bringing something into the game world. No one lives in a perfect bubble like that. I certainly hope you're not going to be so blindingly stupid as to try and pretend otherwise.

edit: Armando, I think comparing an LS of people who share a similar POV with an LS of all MNKs is kind of a false analogy. Just because people share faith doesn't mean that they are clones of each other, or incapable of having different goals and perspectives on playing the game.

[WovenDarkness]

Alright. Explain how looking at a person's own actions and stereotyping based on a group that someone has no control over being in are anything close to each other.


I'm not here to argue whatever you think your point actually is. I'm here to make my own....and a request. Stop being an "superior minded" elongated phallic structure.
______________________________
...ok. taking this to pm's. lolol

[DakAttack]

Then again, I'm an atheist who thinks the Catholics are a sub-type of Christians, so what do I know? :P

They're based on different philosophies, but the disctinctions between the two have slowly disappeared. Catholicism is an institutionalized faith where the pope held the highest power, whereas Christianity was about the teachings of Jesus in particular and was traditionally more of a personal faith. Christianity is becoming more and more like Catholicism day by day, and I think that reflects negatively on Christians, though I could be wrong.

My gripe isn't with personal faiths and beliefs, the issue here is being blindly lead by your beliefs. My original response what not meant to be as offensive as people have taken it, but that doesn't lessen the point it makes. Subjugating yourself before any one or multiple beliefs creates naivety, and, well there's just so much to say on the topic, but it's mostly pointless with all the zombies and those who rush to their defense. Defending a man's naivety only entrenches him further.

What caused more of an uproar, what I said or the way I said it?

[Murphie]

I don't claim to understand why people believe this stuff, but it's pretty firmly entrenched in our global society. Telling them how dumb they are is like talking to a wall, and I have better things to do with my time. I may not agree with what they believe, but I do feel that they have the fundamental right to believe it (no matter how stupid and hurtful and crazy they can be about it sometimes).

[Armando]

Pretty sure it's the way you said it, and to a lesser extent the fact that this thread probably isn't the place to address such issues. I get your point, and I understand there was a good intention behind it, but (in my opinion anyways) if the guy comes asking for Christian LS then we should just point him in the right direction and leave it at that.

I mean, it'd be kinda like asking for vegetarian recipes in the Off Topic forums and getting a reply about how it's pointless to be vegetarian, you know?

[WovenDarkness]

AAAAUUUUGGGHHH!! I got edited!! lolol.

/kicksand


....nope. I'm just blind. >.>

[DakAttack]

I mean, it'd be kinda like asking for vegetarian recipes in the Off Topic forums and getting a reply about how it's pointless to be vegetarian, you know?

I've been looking for a way to become a vegetarian for the longest time, but meat plays far too an important role in my life and I haven't found a way to replace it adequately.

Besides, this was the natural progression of the thread. Off-topic? Yes, but it's not like we're spamming or jerking around. Do-gooders can tell us to create a new topic on it, but we all know that's not going to happen.

Further off-topic: You can upload PNG32s as avatars for neato transparency where you need it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

What caused more of an uproar, what I said or the way I said it?

How you said it and the fact that it didn't need to be said at all. All your ancedotes about religion are gross generalizations to start with, so you're just digging a deeper hole at this point. I know that christians who want to be out of the sermon in time for the All-you-can-eat buffet and I know the ones that give thier time to help others, do charity work and are good people in general who don't force thier faith on others.

Who are you to judge them?

[eticket109]

I don't believe in organised religion, however, this guy didn't ask to start a debate on the merits of faith based living or force his religion down anyone else's throat.

He started a thread asking for a specific type of LS. So unless you have a suitable pearl to offer him, there's not much point in people spamming the thread with their irrelevant opinions.

If religion in video games means so much to you, start a thread about it in an out of topic forum.

JTF

newbie wins the thread

[Feba]

I know of quite a few.
And you can't list any examples, at all.

People join linkshells because they share common interests (outside the game), because they live in similar parts of the world, because they are around the same age, because they all prefer a certain kind of conversation/interaction.
Of course people that live close to each other join LS together-- it's just good sense, playtime and language wise. I used to have quite a few AU and JP friends from playing late at night. It's not some profound thing. As to the rest, I call bullshit. I'd really like to see an LS that people join because of their age (LS that bar younger members don't count), or one based on "a certain type of conversation" (LS that use VoIP or HNM/Social LS comparisons don't count)

There is a difference between "Hey, I'm looking for an LS of folks that share my faith." and "CHRISTIAN ONRY!"
So you're saying that he ISN'T looking for likeminded people, then? He wants an LS about Christianity, but not one that is inclined towards xian members?

I certainly hope you're not going to be so blindingly stupid as to try and pretend otherwise.
Of course not. But I also don't form or join LS based on my political, social, economic, philosophical, or other interests. I've had LS from people I met IRL, I've had LS from in game friends, but you'd have to be pretty stupid to think "random LS babble about Ron Paul" and "Libertarian Linkshell" are anywhere close.


What caused more of an uproar, what I said or the way I said it?

The way you said it, and for two reasons. First of all, this isn't the place to discuss it. Second of all, you sounded pretty damn toolish, and I basically agree with what you were saying on a more fundamental level. If you want to talk about how religion is for sheeple, go right ahead, but don't do it in a place where someone was just looking for advice.

Telling them how dumb they are is like talking to a wall, and I have better things to do with my time.
I don't disagree with you. You seem pretty pissy, are you getting me and Dak confused? I'm just giving him advice that if he's that involved in his religion, this probably isn't a good place for him. Nothing about how valid his beliefs are. I could talk for days about the problems with religion, and my opinions on the religious, but there's no point to it.

I mean, it'd be kinda like asking for vegetarian recipes in the Off Topic forums and getting a reply about how it's pointless to be vegetarian, you know?
Not quite. It's more like talking about wanting a vegetarian linkshell, and being told that you'll have a hard time finding one, and it's pretty much impossible to get through FFXI without sucking without ingesting some sort of animal product.

[Sabaron]

You will notice that the OP has not made a post since the first one. I think either you've been trolled or you've scared them off and they've lost all interest in what you have to say. This is now simply an argument for the sake of argument as your audience seems to have left the building.

As for the notion that a Christian is looking for a Christian linkshell--this is a common trait among people. Regardless of the "clique" they define themselves with, they desire to be with people who are like them. It validates their personality. I think the Man in White in Family Guy (styled after the late Marshall Applewhite) said it best when he said "Are you a confused adolescent desperately seeking acceptance from an undifferentiated ego mass that demands conformity?" It is a wonderful allusion to some interesting psychological literature, and tells you a lot about people in general.

You will notice that many of you have gravitated here to DiV rather than to Alla or KI because you're not "like" those people--you don't like them. They piss you off. You seek out a common environment in which you are not constantly being pissed off by those around you. All people behave this way.

You're just upset because the OP uses a religion to define her/himself. Your rather obvious attacks are intended to remove the OP from your ego mass--You don't like people who define themselves based on religion (or specifically Christianity) and since they are weaker than you, you attack and force them to leave your group. How do you define yourself? Have you looked into that? Don't tell me that you don't because you're a liar. Everyone does it. You may just define yourself as undefinable and that's ok--just admit it. There are whole groups of high school students who define themselves as undefineable that hang out behind the bleachers smoking clove cigarettes and cutting themselves...

[WovenDarkness]

This is now simply an argument for the sake of argument as our audience seems to have left the building.



FTFY.

Self inclusion. Nice transition from paragraph 1 --> 4 though. :thumbsup:

[Sabaron]

FTFY.

Self inclusion. Nice transition from paragraph 1 --> 4 though. :thumbsup:

I didn't include myself since I'm not really talking to the OP, but rather the other people in the thread who are directing remarks to the OP who has apparently gone away (I'm not sure of that, but I doubt if we see much more of HolyLion). My audience hasn't left the building... They keep posting and I think most of them are fairly permanent fixtures who don't even leave after they stop playing (Feba). Another note on reading my posts... You'll usually want to read them twice because I almost always edit them at least once.

[WovenDarkness]

Ahh. My mistake. Thanks for the clarification. I missed.

[Neomage]

Then again, I'm an atheist who thinks the Catholics are a sub-type of Christians, so what do I know? :P

Aren't they? Not to be offensive or anything but... Really... They are.

Theologically speaking, anyway.

[Feba]

You will notice that the OP has not made a post since the first one. I think either you've been trolled or you've scared them off and they've lost all interest in what you have to say.

I wouldn't be so quick to judge-- not everyone checks back on their forum post the same hour, or even the same day. I certainly don't check back on replies I make on other forums terribly often, and I spend quite a bit of time on forums, obviously. It's only been six or seven hours.

Either way, the rest of your post is hilarious. You are a horrible troll, Sabaron, you should stick to giving gameplay advice. The point of being inflammatory is to get people to make asses of themselves, not make yourself look like a total idiot.

[Guitardy]

Maybe his goal was to spark this discussion. You never know.

[Caspian]

OP: if you make it this far, grats. I'm on Fairy, but I'm unaware of any Christian ls's. Not saying a whole lot since I'm not on a lot, I'm sure there's atleast one. Like some others have said, it would probably be much easier to find a "family friendly" social ls. That is assuming you're looking for a "less offensive" ls.

[Sabaron]

I wouldn't be so quick to judge-- not everyone checks back on their forum post the same hour, or even the same day. I certainly don't check back on replies I make on other forums terribly often, and I spend quite a bit of time on forums, obviously. It's only been six or seven hours.

Either way, the rest of your post is hilarious. You are a horrible troll, Sabaron, you should stick to giving gameplay advice. The point of being inflammatory is to get people to make asses of themselves, not make yourself look like a total idiot.

I wasn't trying to be a troll... I was merely speaking to the fact that you can't not be a Black Pot Kettle Caller (Kettle Pot Black Caller?) because there's no possible way that I can't define any person in a similar manner to the OP (and be completely right). I don't care if you troll, go right ahead--this thread is perfect for it. As for the idiot part...well...I suppose you got me.

[Feba]

Maybe his goal was to spark this discussion. You never know.

Could've been. This forum is fairly open, though, there's not much of a reason you can't just start a debate if you're in the mood for it, as long as it's not too over the top.

because there's no possible way that I can't define any person in a similar manner to the OP

So what you're saying is, you didn't actually pay attention to what was being said, but skimmed and assumed because there was a debate that someone was insulting someone for having a religion? No. Try again. Nobody (well, maybe Dak, but nobody gives a shit about Dak) has a problem with the OP having a religion.

[HolyLion]

Ummm what up with off topic thing? Sorry i was on the road after I post this thread. I have lvl 32 war, lvl 15 mnk, lvl 24 drg and lvl 3 whm. I am only looking for chrstian people. I believe they are out there. If not then I would like to have a very friendly LS then.

There are christian gamers and you can check this out, www.christiangamers.net.......enjoy it.

And please dont jack my thread, thank you. I just simple want to find christian people that is all, cheers and wish you all the best.

[Feba]

If not then I would like to have a very friendly LS then.

There are tons of those out there. Honestly, the easiest way to meet LS members is usually through partying with them. If they seem nice enough, just ask if you can join their LS. Most non-endgame LS are fine with having new members.

[Murphie]

And you can't list any examples, at all.I am not obligated to explain myself to you, Feba.

Of course people that live close to each other join LS together-- it's just good sense, playtime and language wise. I used to have quite a few AU and JP friends from playing late at night. It's not some profound thing. As to the rest, I call bullshit. I'd really like to see an LS that people join because of their age (LS that bar younger members don't count), or one based on "a certain type of conversation" (LS that use VoIP or HNM/Social LS comparisons don't count)I've belonged to several. But you wouldn't believe me if I told you, so why bother?

So you're saying that he ISN'T looking for likeminded people, then?No. Why are you being so hard headed here? Being in an LS with people who share is faith IS looking for like minded members. No one said anything about excluding until you came along and started trolling.

Of course not. But I also don't form or join LS based on my political, social, economic, philosophical, or other interests. I've had LS from people I met IRL, I've had LS from in game friends, but you'd have to be pretty stupid to think "random LS babble about Ron Paul" and "Libertarian Linkshell" are anywhere close.Hey, what works for you doesn't work for everyone. Some people join and form linkshells for reasons that aren't just like yours. Amazing!

I don't disagree with you. You seem pretty pissy, are you getting me and Dak confused?I'm not pissy. Just amazed sometimes at how ridiculous you can be sometimes.

I'm just giving him advice that if he's that involved in his religion, this probably isn't a good place for him.Why isn't it? How does "I would like to hang out with others who share my beliefs" translate into "I have no real interest in the game" for you? Based on the number of false statements and leaps of logic you've made in this thread alone, I'd consider you the last person qualified to provide him with any sort of valid advice.

[Feba]

I am not obligated to explain myself to you, Feba.

Not at all. But given that you don't list any information about the subject at hand except "I say so, so there! I'm not going to explain myself at all! I don't need to be more specific!", your point is extremely weak.

But you wouldn't believe me if I told you,
Where'd this come from? I have no real reason to believe you'd lie about this.

Being in an LS with people who share is faith IS looking for like minded members. No one said anything about excluding until you came along and started trolling.
So you're saying the LS is for likeminded people who don't exclude people who have different opinions. What?

I'm not trolling here, I'm just responding to people that are misunderstanding/twisting my words. Again, if I wanted to troll, I could bring up my opinions on religion, the OP, or whatever. This is purely about giving him advice; namely, that this game is probably not a good match for him.

Hey, what works for you doesn't work for everyone. Some people join and form linkshells for reasons that aren't just like yours. Amazing!

Yep. I always joined LS for talking to people. There are some people that join them to get ahead in the game, or to have easy communication with a group of people you do events with. And you know what? That had absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making! Amazing!

Why isn't it? How does "I would like to hang out with others who share my beliefs" translate into "I have no real interest in the game" for you? He is involved in his religion. He takes it very seriously. He takes it so seriously that he wants to continue this religion inside a fantasy universe. That fantasy universe, by it's very nature, has many things which conflict with the religion he wishes to bring into it. It is probably not a good choice for him to play.

Based on the number of false statements and leaps of logic you've made in this thread alone, I'd consider you the last person qualified to provide him with any sort of valid advice.

Go ahead, list some. Oh, wait! You don't have to! You can just go "I don't need to explain myself to you! I have all the answers, but I'm not telling! You wouldn't believe me anyway!", and nobody will question your statements. Great logic there!

[Murphie]

Not at all. But given that you don't list any information about the subject at hand except "I say so, so there! I'm not going to explain myself at all! I don't need to be more specific!", your point is extremely weak.Except you're making your own point in the same way. You're saying that people don't, and I'm saying they do. It's the same method.

Where'd this come from? I have no real reason to believe you'd lie about this.Without concrete examples, apparently my statements have no validity. See above.

So you're saying the LS is for likeminded people who don't exclude people who have different opinions. What? Please point out where anyone but you said anything about exclusion. You are the only one bringing it up.

This is purely about giving him advice; namely, that this game is probably not a good match for him.What are you basing that advice on? That he's a Christian? That he enjoys the company of other Christians? What is it about his faith that you feel precludes his ability to enjoy the game?

Yep. I always joined LS for talking to people. There are some people that join them to get ahead in the game, or to have easy communication with a group of people you do events with. And you know what? That had absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making! Amazing!Way to dodge the point I was making though.

He is involved in his religion. He takes it very seriously. He takes it so seriously that he wants to continue this religion inside a fantasy universe. That fantasy universe, by it's very nature, has many things which conflict with the religion he wishes to bring into it. It is probably not a good choice for him to play.You're reading way too much into his comments. He is involved in his religion and wants to surround himself with others that are. But where did he say anything about bringing it into the fantasy universe? And where did anyone say that you are the arbiter of what people can and cannot bring into Vanadiel?

Go ahead, list some. Oh, wait! You don't have to! You can just go "I don't need to explain myself to you! I have all the answers, but I'm not telling! You wouldn't believe me anyway!", and nobody will question your statements. Great logic there!Dude, I've been listing them the entire time. How are you not seeing that?

With every post in this thread, you are applying your own idea about his motivations for looking for a Christian LS. His OP was a couple of sentences long. It's quite the leap of logic you made from his simple statements about what he wants to your ideas about why he wants it.

[Saphiera]

I dunno maybe i'm going out on a limb here but........ since when does religion have to do with FFX? lmao

[Murphie]

Haha it doesn't, OMG rite? Except lol, that's not really LMAO what the OP was talking about amirite?

Thanks for going out on your limb. I'm sure it was really scary for you to put yourself out there like that.

[Feba]

Except you're making your own point in the same way. You're saying that people don't, and I'm saying they do. It's the same method.
Except I'm listing from previous knowledge, every single LS I have ever been in or encountered. You are providing no examples counter to that.

Without concrete examples, apparently my statements have no validity.
There is a difference between concrete examples and truthful statement. You could be misunderstanding what I'm talking about, and think you are speaking truthfully, but without concrete examples there is no way to know that you are referring to the same thing. It's happened before, will happen again, and has nothing to do with whether I believe what you say or not.

Please point out where anyone but you said anything about exclusion. You are the only one bringing it
See:
[QUOTE]I am christian player and is looking for Christian LS on fairy server. My in-name game is Holylion. I look forward to join godly LS.


What are you basing that advice on? That he's a Christian? That he enjoys the company of other Christians? What is it about his faith that you feel precludes his ability to enjoy the game?
See:
He is involved in his religion. He takes it very seriously. He takes it so seriously that he wants to continue this religion inside a fantasy universe. That fantasy universe, by it's very nature, has many things which conflict with the religion he wishes to bring into it. It is probably not a good choice for him to play.


Way to dodge the point I was making though.
Which is a valid point. I completely agree with it. I have no reason to contest it. It, however, was not what I was talking about.

But where did he say anything about bringing it into the fantasy universe?

See:
I am christian player and is looking for Christian LS on fairy server. My in-name game is Holylion. I look forward to join godly LS.

And where did anyone say that you are the arbiter of what people can and cannot bring into Vanadiel?Nowhere. I've never said that. That seems to be a creation of your own. As I've said three or four times now, all I'm doing is giving advice. I never said "Don't bring that shit here", or "Keep that out of FFXI", even though I wouldn't really disagree with either statement.

Dude, I've been listing them the entire time. How are you not seeing that?
Apparently because to you "leap of logic" and "false statements" just means "things I don't understand". Sorry for the confusion.

With every post in this thread, you are applying your own idea about his motivations for looking for a Christian LS. His OP was a couple of sentences long. It's quite the leap of logic you made from his simple statements about what he wants to your ideas about why he wants it.
Agreed, assuming we change the words "leap of logic" to "thing I don't understand", following the above. I am taking what he said and drawing a conclusion from it. However, there really aren't any other options.

If he wanted to join an LS with nice people, he could've asked for nice people. If he wanted to join an LS that didn't allow profanity and other objectional material, he could've asked for that. But he didn't. He specifically asked for a godly, xian LS. Logically, if he didn't care very much about his religion, he wouldn't care-- heck, even many people that do care about their religion would not have cared about who they were talking to and getting/giving help to/from.

He was also not looking for a group in real life-- he specifically asked for a linkshell, a group in a fantasy game. Groups in real life are an entirely different situation, and it can be very useful to join likeminded people to push for your rights and the like. By wanting to join a linkshell, though, he clearly wishes to bring his religion into said fantasy realm.

The logical (and obvious) conclusion is that he cares deeply about his religion, and wishes to bring it with him to a fantasy realm. This need not be a bad thing. However, FFXI is a bad choice. It has multiple conflicts with that same religion. FFXI not only allows and contains, but promotes summoning demons, witchcraft, worshipping false idols (Jeuno church; Bastok statue; HOTG), a plurality of gods and gods other than the abrahamic god, none of which are compatible or acceptable in the religion he wishes to bring to it. That's also just the easy stuff to see, there is much more I'm sure I could find if I cared to (for example, some of the game's food items are probably banned by Leviticus). If none of the content that disagrees with, or could be downright insulting to, his religion bothers him, why would other people that do not share that religion bother him?

I have nothing against him, his religion, or even his wanting to bring it into a virtual world. However, FFXI is clearly not a good place for that, and he'd be best to look elsewhere.
______________________________
I dunno maybe i'm going out on a limb here but........ since when does religion have to do with FFX? lmao

Actually, religion was pretty central to FFX.


But this is FFXI.

Look at your address bar. See? right there in the URL. ffxi online.com

Sorry for the confusion.

[Murphie]

Except I'm listing from previous knowledge, every single LS I have ever been in or encountered. You are providing no examples counter to that.I'm doing the same thing. What examples are you providing that counter my statement that I have been in several linkshells, or seen several linkshells that were created around common ideas?

There is a difference between concrete examples and truthful statement. You could be misunderstanding what I'm talking about, and think you are speaking truthfully, but without concrete examples there is no way to know that you are referring to the same thing. It's happened before, will happen again, and has nothing to do with whether I believe what you say or not.I'm not sure what sort of concrete example of my own experiences I could provide that would satisfy you.

I'm not quoting the rest, because I don't think either of us are going to reach any sort of conclusion in this conversation, and I think we probably both have better things to do with our time. We disagree on a pretty fundamental level here, and I just don't see us reaching a middle ground.

[Feba]

I'm doing the same thing. What examples are you providing that counter my statement that I have been in several linkshells, or seen several linkshells that were created around common ideas?
Absolutely none! There would be no way to discuss this off anything except experience without SE's database, at the very least. It would be impossible for me to prove your assumptions negative. I'm not asking for documentation and screenshots and chatlogs to prove these LS exist, I just want more information so we can be sure we are thinking of the same thing.

I'm sure you've been in many LS founded on common ideas, that's very different from an LS founded on ideas that have nothing to do with the game.

I'm not sure what sort of concrete example of my own experiences I could provide that would satisfy you.

Information on such LS. What they were formed about, how well they thrived. Nothing fancy.

I'm not quoting the rest, because I don't think either of us are going to reach any sort of conclusion in this conversation, and I think we probably both have better things to do with our time.
Possibly, but...

We disagree on a pretty fundamental level here, and I just don't see us reaching a middle ground....I disagree with that. (I KNOW IT'S IRONIC, NOBODY HERE NEEDS TO BRING THAT UP) I don't think we really disagree on anything, you just don't understand the point I am trying to make (I realize it could probably be made more elegantly), or how I arrived at that conclusion. I really don't doubt at all that we could work it out if we sat down and talked about it for awhile, although there wouldn't be much of a point to it.

[Murphie]

I haven't listed the specifics of the LS's I'm referring to, because that would give away more information about myself than I'm comfortable with here.

[Feba]

...You're a tarutaru, aren't you?


It's ok.

[Balfree]

JESUS CHRIST (no pun intended)

You people turn ANYTHING into these pointless little arguments, sometimes I feel like you're all a bunch of 11 year olds without any sort of common sense.

Damn.

[Feba]

You people turn ANYTHING into these pointless little arguments,

Well we have to do something.

And this is a helluva lot simpler than contributing to society.

[Balfree]

If youre like this in real life, i feel sorry for you <.<

Gonna grow up to be a really whiney old man and your grandchildren will be kicking your nuts all the time because they hate you. If you ever get children anyway.

[Jarre]

I'm ignoring all the arguments above..... everyone knows my view of religeon and all i say is each to their own.

What you need to realise is that FF is a game which people from all around the world play who all have different backgrounds, racially, religeously etc. The idea of the "community is that people mix with each other and play the game as one. It is frowned upon for people to form their own little groups based on their religeon, nationality or race as this goes against the purpose of "community"

Therefore having a single religeon linkshell like a christian only shell would go against this principle whiulst also creating teh fact you are preventing other people from joining a community just because of their own religeous beleifs.

The game is for everyone, everyone works together for a single cause inside the game we are all the same with no religeon, race issue getting in our way. if you can't live wih that, then online games are not for you.

[Murphie]

If youre like this in real life, i feel sorry for you <.<

Gonna grow up to be a really whiney old man and your grandchildren will be kicking your nuts all the time because they hate you. If you ever get children anyway.Is this an attempt to illustrate turning something into a stupid argument?

[Balfree]

Yes.

See how annoying it is?

[Feba]

If you ever get children anyway.
If I'm lucky, I won't even get laid.

[Tomato_Kai]

I'm ignoring all the arguments above..... everyone knows my view of religeon and all i say is each to their own.

What you need to realise is that FF is a game which people from all around the world play who all have different backgrounds, racially, religeously etc. The idea of the "community is that people mix with each other and play the game as one. It is frowned upon for people to form their own little groups based on their religeon, nationality or race as this goes against the purpose of "community"

Therefore having a single religeon linkshell like a christian only shell would go against this principle whiulst also creating teh fact you are preventing other people from joining a community just because of their own religeous beleifs.

The game is for everyone, everyone works together for a single cause inside the game we are all the same with no religeon, race issue getting in our way. if you can't live wih that, then online games are not for you.

This is an interesting point that bears examination. This seems to be the opinion and base argument of about a good half of the master debaters here. Let me see if my diction will measure up to what needs to be said from his perspective.

Unlike Saphiera (whom I adore and respect) I am actually going to go out on a limb here, and say I not only respect the OP's beliefs, but share some of them. It could be said that I am a christian. I say this because this allows you to see where I'm coming from. I see some logic from alot of angles, but also I think that there needs to be an equal amount of perspective recieved, and not just given.

Feba, Dak. I see what you're saying. "Don't take your religion into my game." Makes sense, Vana'diel touches on a wide variety of religious subjects and not a one of them is Christianity or the particular beliefs it holds. Still, there is a problem. Even out of the context of the 'real world' Christianity still exists in various forms in this game.

Honestly, I'm afraid seperating the two is impossible. Even if it were possible to ban organized religion from the game, what would the game suddenly be? As far as my limited understanding of the game can reach, much of the magic and even the game world itself would not exist without the concepts of God's and Goddesses to have supported it. Literally - Final Fantasy gets its ideas based off modern and archaeic religious themes. Even looking at the names of various entities in the world, you know this is so. Shiva. Garuda. Ifrit. Diabolos. I could go on and on to the point of irrelevancy. Unfortunately, that will not satisfy the arguement. Religion is embedded deeply into this game in thought, in principal, even in appearance, and it's not coming out. Wishing it to be so simply won't change that. So, is the argument at this point against Religion in this game, or is it something else?

Is the argument against Christianity?

Lets take a look a copy/paste of one of the earlier posts from Dak.

They're based on different philosophies, but the disctinctions between the two have slowly disappeared. Catholicism is an institutionalized faith where the pope held the highest power, whereas Christianity was about the teachings of Jesus in particular and was traditionally more of a personal faith. Christianity is becoming more and more like Catholicism day by day, and I think that reflects negatively on Christians, though I could be wrong.

My gripe isn't with personal faiths and beliefs, the issue here is being blindly lead by your beliefs. My original response what not meant to be as offensive as people have taken it, but that doesn't lessen the point it makes. Subjugating yourself before any one or multiple beliefs creates naivety, and, well there's just so much to say on the topic, but it's mostly pointless with all the zombies and those who rush to their defense. Defending a man's naivety only entrenches him further.

What caused more of an uproar, what I said or the way I said it?

[I'm not going to break this down into bitesized chunks like some of the other posts because I'm a firm believer that context is a valuable thing, and I'm sure Dak would be rather upset if cut his argument up into little pieces.]

You make a number of interesting assertions with this post, Dak. First, you say that Catholicism and Christianity are based on different philosophies. We're arguing semantics of a two thousand year old religion here. I'm not sure how he can even postulate this, as he himself is apparently uneducated (or simply ineloquent) on the whole realm of theology here. If he wishes to argue this point, I'll be more specific. Regardless, lets move on to the second half of his post.

He is implying that because the OP came here searching out a LinkShell of Christians, that he is... "Blindly Following His Beliefs." This is an interesting phrase that is unfortunately commonly used to stereotype modern christians (of any particular sway) and quite frankly doesn't make much sense. A person believes something because either experience or faith tells them that it is worth trusting. I sit down in this chair because have experienced sitting down in many chairs, and trust that chairs will universally behave in the same way, and let me sit in them. Anyone who sits in chairs without thoroughly testing them is guilty of this, and why is that wrong? I don't think this is what Dak was against, however. Lets assume that you're not talking about experience at this point, but rather faith. Lets assume that you're saying that the OP was blindly following his faith rather than experience (this is most likely not a true statement, but I'll indulge this anyhow) and searching for Christian LinkShell.

His faith dictated his actions, and I still don't see where blindness or naivete comes into the picture. Many a believing christian besides myself will tell you that even though they have faith - it is not blind. They believe not simply because some suit-wearing, old, balding man on a podium slapping a heavy leather bound tome told them to. They believe because they have seen real truth comparable to their own experiences in what they've been told - and they agree with it. That they agree strongly enough to wager their current actions on a potential future outcome.

That sounds less like blindness and more like foresight to me, but I am, of course, biased.

Still the point remains that this was not why the OP wanted a Christian LS. He likely had experienced many other games and noted that Christian (and other religious) groups were fairly common in the online community, and wanted to see if there were any outstanding he could join on whim. Now, being slightly more experienced FFXI players, we can say that it is unlikely but wish him the best of luck.

In summation, I'd like to say that I am glad we're not quite as bad as other forums I've seen. Some religious arguments can get downright ridiculous. Or just arguments period. I cite: Ctrl+Alt+Del (http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20080227) as a source.

Comments to OP:

Dude, you probably could rephrased your post a bit. Sounds kinda pompous. Also: This game isn't quite western enough to have specific social groups in the same manner as others. I'm not saying you can't find a good Christian LS, but I really doubt you will.

[Feba]

Feba, Dak. I see what you're saying. "Don't take your religion into my game."
Not at all what I was saying. As I've said numerous times now, people will take their religion with them wherever they go. Only an RP'r would replace their gods with Altana when they log in; I've known people who are plenty religious in game. That I don't care about; I have to deal with them everywhere else in life too. My point was that if he's that devoted, this game would not be a good fit for him.

Apart from that, please keep the religious debate out of here. You are flawed in so many ways (for example, equating faith in something you have no reason to believe to faith of something you have reason to believe; pascals wager; citing CAD), but there's no point going through them. There are thousands of debate and religion sites out there on the internet, there's no reason to turn this into one.


I don't think anybody is going to have a revelation because of some post they read on a video game forum.

[Lambeaus]

Holy fuck, some of you guys need a life other than sitting on a forum for a video game criticizing somebody because of their religion, only because he was searching for a Christian LS. PATHETIC.

FIVE pages of this garbage? Is there really nothing going on in your FFXI worlds that isn't better to talk/argue/bicker/rant about?
______________________________
Also, shouldn't this thread be moved to Off-Topic?

I really don't see much discussed this thread that pertains to the game...

[eticket109]

FIVE pages of this garbage? Is there really nothing going on in your FFXI worlds that isn't better to talk/argue/bicker/rant about?



You've been here for two years now and don't know the answer to this?

[Lambeaus]

You've been here for two years now and don't know the answer to this? I just got back from a 6 month break. My memory has been getting a little shaky:worry:

[Feba]

The only person criticizing him for his religion was Dak, and Dak has a life.

You know, because he's always acting like he's too cool for everyone else. He's obviously a real fly guy.

[DakAttack]

Yea, that's not what I was saying either.


You make a number of interesting assertions with this post, Dak. First, you say that Catholicism and Christianity are based on different philosophies. We're arguing semantics of a two thousand year old religion here. I'm not sure how he can even postulate this, as he himself is apparently uneducated (or simply ineloquent) on the whole realm of theology here. If he wishes to argue this point, I'll be more specific. Regardless, lets move on to the second half of his post.


You are the biggest d-bag in this thread. Words can't really express how far over your head this is, and only airplanes can make the proper whoosh sound.


You know, because he's always acting like he's too cool for everyone else. He's obviously a real fly guy.

I am pretty fly for a white guy.

[Telera]

I don't think one needs be a super-devoted 'don't curse in front of me OMG!' type of Christian to seek a Christian linkshell. Not that I've ever seen one, mind you. It may be that what he's more aiming for is a shell that doesn't have some tool going on about how drunk he is, how many blunts he smoked, or how many women he's laid in the past week.

Which, to be honest, makes even me want to drop pearls. I have, in fact. It gets tedious. It's like being in the High School locker rooms all over again. Been there, done that, I graduated, I'd like it to stay back there.

Then again, he could be looking for people he knows share at least a similar tack of beliefs to his in which to group up. I don't see how that makes one closed minded, unless they spout something that says otherwise, or unwilling to socialize with others outside that group.

In fact, most branches of Christianity can't even agree on basic things. That's why there are so many. A group of multi-denominational Christians may have plenty of things to 'conflict' about. It seems people seem to want others to want conflict in order to be open minded. That or be willing to 'believe whatever I say, and my opinion is right and you should buy it unquestioningly, else you are closed minded.' Around here, we call people like that flighty, and you can't rely on them much. They change with whatever way the wind blows.

It might be interesting to get a shell of all sorts of Christian denominations together and hold a theological debate. Though I doubt even in a Christian shell there'd be much theological or real world discussion anyway. It'd probably run similar to any shell, just sans the vast majority of what I said at the start of my post.

As to excluding others, well, it's rather tedious to hear the same band wagon pull up and spew its contents every day. I've run into maybe five people of different religions or lack-thereof that can debate religion without eventually sinking to the Great Book of Cliches and reciting down the list (Sheep is Page One, I think), or finding their way into the ever-popular Insinuation of Inferior Intelligence and Reasoning.

The people I know who can have discourse with me about religion without those things, I value greatly, and have had fun and lively discussions with. Sadly, on the internet, these types are rare. Most are young adults on the cool-wagon. Others are just running around with their intellectual masturbation. And the few that can do it and not get firey just seem too rare to bother trying to find. Especially in an MMO. There's a difference between debate/open-discourse, and an antagonistic asshole. And I can't name any linkshell, of any inclination, that wants one of those running around in it.

What's sad, is I doubt anyone would even have bothered to start this tangent if the OP had asked for an atheist-only shell. Or neo-Pagan. It probably would've been wholly ignored.

I will say this. While not a Christian Kinship, my Kin on LotR is more 'family-friendly' and I daresay I enjoy it much more than I ever did most LS's I was in on XI. When you're getting near your mid-twenties, it gets tedious as hell to hear the same immature bullshit day in and day out. I don't care what people do in their private lives, I just see no reason to announce it to a Linkshell (or Kinship) that doesn't give a flying damn about your drug/sex/alcohol habit. The most 'offensive' things that ever get said are some rather sporadic curse words mostly coming from myself and a couple of the other guys that I PvP with in the Ettens.

Much more enjoyable than the horny guy hitting on every girl in the shell with the most vile things I have ever heard, and subsequently killing said shell.

Yes, this really happened. Sevv can tell you all about it. It was great fun. /sarcasm

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

It may be that what he's more aiming for is a shell that doesn't have some tool going on about how drunk he is, how many blunts he smoked, or how many women he's laid in the past week.

Omgwtfbbqkitten and I have one of these guys in our LS >.< lol, you like nailed exactly hehe.

[Jarre]

Holy fuck, some of you guys need a life other than sitting on a forum for a video game criticizing somebody because of their religion, only because he was searching for a Christian LS. PATHETIC.

FIVE pages of this garbage? Is there really nothing going on in your FFXI worlds that isn't better to talk/argue/bicker/rant about?
______________________________
Also, shouldn't this thread be moved to Off-Topic?

I really don't see much discussed this thread that pertains to the game...

Whether you beleive in a religeon or not, it affects us everyday. This afternoon 2 hours ago we had jehovers witnesses walk into the office with their watchtower magazine. When i told them i'm not religeous and don't beleive in any god so their wasting their time, i was told I would rot in hell and don't deserve to live. They were politely asked to leave to which they made their best decission of the day by doing so. The current terrosim war where muslims say that all non muslims should perish, and I quote 3 translatioons from the quran

Ishaq:325 "Muslims, fight in Allah's Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious."
Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."
Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

We live in fear because of another religeon saying we don't deserve to exist unless we follow their way, that is complete bullshit.

The game is no place for religeon differences yes their is the god altana in the game, Se should really have tread carefully around this as many people could use it as a paralel to which god they beleive in that could cause conflcits. In reality games should not contain religeon or allow peoples beleifs to be pushed into groups in games. Onlien games are about people mixing together for one good cause, to fight the computer controlled enimies in the game, not fight among themselves due to their different beliefs.

Why do they have the egg hunt spectacular rather than easter, why do they have the starlight celebration rather than christmas? The main rason is to not bring real life religeous beleifs into the game so not to offend or cause problems.

I don't think one needs be a super-devoted 'don't curse in front of me OMG!' type of Christian to seek a Christian linkshell. Not that I've ever seen one, mind you. It may be that what he's more aiming for is a shell that doesn't have some tool going on about how drunk he is, how many blunts he smoked, or how many women he's laid in the past week.

I don't beleive one exists that doesn't have at least one in.

[Mhurron]

It may be that what he's more aiming for is a shell that doesn't have some tool going on about how drunk he is, how many blunts he smoked, or how many women he's laid in the past week.
Omgwtfbbqkitten and I have one of these guys in our LS >.< lol, you like nailed exactly hehe.
The game would be a much nicer place if we could just get rid of all these morons.

[Mhurron]

Whether you beleive in a religeon or not, it affects us everyday. This afternoon 2 hours ago we had jehovers witnesses walk into the office with their watchtower magazine. When i told them i'm not religeous and don't beleive in any god so their wasting their time, i was told I would rot in hell and don't deserve to live.
You must be a real asshole and pissed them off since Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in eternal damnation.

[Jarre]

I don't like having beleifs forced onto me Mhurron, I speak my mind. if I have to be an asshole to defend my sanity then so be it.

[Mhurron]

I don't like having beleifs forced onto me Mhurron, I speak my mind. if I have to be an asshole to defend my sanity then so be it.
Fine, but don't lie or pretend you were being nice about it.

Oh, and maybe stop being so sensitive where leaving a magazine is 'having beliefs forced on you.'

[Murphie]

I like to imagine that they knocked on the door, he opened it, yelled a bunch of gibberish at them, and then slammed the door back in their faces.

[Mhurron]

I like to imagine that they knocked on the door, he opened it, yelled a bunch of gibberish at them, and then slammed the door back in their faces.
Envision that as a Galka PLD and it's even funnier.

[Pai Pai Master]

Quit being dicks to each other. How's that for a religion lololol.

[WovenDarkness]

If I'm lucky, I won't even get laid.

...the peanut gallery is closed today. Sorry.

[Feba]

Uh, yeah, Jarre, wtf? JW believe that hell is a metaphor.

[Jarre]

Its a widley used saying here for F off, it just sounds not as agressive.

[Feba]

Yeah, I still doubt they would've said it.

[HolyLion]

Wow I just hope this thread dont turn into heat debate but it does. I decide to create my own linkshell and are looking for friendly players with peace of mind. wish you all the best in the game.