Best SJ for SCH

[Saphiera]

Now I've noticed that /RDM seems to be the best for me b/c it enhances both properties of the SCH, not to mention in later lvls I get stoneskin blink phalanx gravity and enfeebling spells. I know /BLM is good for dmg but we lack the defensive spells, and /WHM is just ICKY ! unless you need silena in the mire. What do you guys think?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I'm mostly a /RDM or /WHM user, not that /BLM is bad, it just that Manifestation doesn't have as many reasons to be used as Accession does. /RDM i prefer because I get th MAB from that sub and also the defensive spells + Gravity and Enspells. Plus I'll still have the option to -ga most curative and protective spells even if /RDM.

[Saphiera]

I'm mostly a /RDM or /WHM user, not that /BLM is bad, it just that Manifestation doesn't have as many reasons to be used as Accession does. /RDM i prefer because I get th MAB from that sub and also the defensive spells + Gravity and Enspells. Plus I'll still have the option to -ga most curative and protective spells even if /RDM.

yeah I forgot about the -en spells also, I really think /RDM is SCH's best SJ so far.

[Tomato_Kai]

As a sub, it seems to naturally compliment the flexibility of the job, though I can't say I entirely think of the en-spells as a significant boon.

[IfritnoItazura]

The best support job is whichever best fit the current situation. Usually, that means /WHM for -na, Erase, and Curaga, or /RDM for the full enfeebling and enhancing suite, and a little MAB, to boot. Soloing makes /RDM's Gravity and Bind quite valuable.

Didn't find /BLM to be very useful for the most part, but between Lv.20 to 39, it's the only way to get a MAB for SCH.

[Icemage]

/BLM is pretty ho-hum, even with the Magic Attack Bonus for that 20 level stretch from 20-39.

What irritates me with either /WHM or /RDM is that all the good white magic enfeebles get hosed under either Light Arts or Dark Arts. If you have Light Arts up, you have D rank Enfeebling, but they cost less and cast/recast faster... if you have Dark Arts up, you have B rank Enfeebling, but they cost more and cast/recast slower. Lose-lose either way.

To be fair, at least SCH is a competent healer when it has some Refresh/Evoker's/Ballad support.. and it's not that bad as a nuker either, if a bit inaccurate until you get to elemental staves at 51.


Icemage

[Coinspinner]

Post-40 /BLM isn't too useful, but it if you're just gonna nuke and Regen, and are confident you won't get hate, it's still pretty good. You get Wizard's Earring, the elemental enfeebles, earlier Sleep and Elemental Seal to go with it, and eventually Tractor and Escape.

My favorite, and default sub, is /RDM though.

[Saphiera]

What irritates me with either /WHM or /RDM is that all the good white magic enfeebles get hosed under either Light Arts or Dark Arts. If you have Light Arts up, you have D rank Enfeebling, but they cost less and cast/recast faster... if you have Dark Arts up, you have B rank Enfeebling, but they cost more and cast/recast slower. Lose-lose either way.

That is one thing that I have not been able to get lol, although the 3 main enfeebles I use under dark arts are Slow, Paralyze, and Gravity, I leave dia under light arts since its DoT and I dont care too much for it lol. But as far as switching to LA and DA its been pretty easy for me to do I never have a problem with it. Then again I have a Plan for when I cast what as far as enfeebling go's lol I only nuke if I am not the main or support healer, those past few Mana pt's i've had, has way over caped my elemental magic lol just toss in a few mana pt's when its not caped and there ya go!

[Malacite]

Has anyone been able to test out SCH/BLM @75 yet with Ebullience and tier 3 nukes?

[Coinspinner]

Not personally, but it's 20% more damage so it's not hard to imagine what it'd do for your damage output. Parsimony seems like the better option.

[Malacite]

I still think it sucks that SCH's best stratagems can't be used when it's subbed but the job needed some kind of reason to take it to 75 @.@;

It's too bad really. Accession + Refresh or Ebullience + Burst II would have pwned.

[IfritnoItazura]

I still think it sucks that SCH's best stratagems can't be used when it's subbed
Um... OK, but the topic is support job for SCH, not /SCH as a support job.

[MrMageo]

I still think it sucks that SCH's best stratagems can't be used when it's subbed but the job needed some kind of reason to take it to 75 @.@;

It's too bad really. Accession + Refresh or Ebullience + Burst II would have pwned.

Just going to touch on this quick. It would be like making convert available to other mage jobs, too much power. I wouldnt mind seeing the storms available as a sub tho.

As for best SJ for Sch in an on paper sorta way, is rdm party enspells/stoneskin/phalanx/blink, aoe dispel,gravity,bind out weigh /whm or /blm benefits.

But as for best SJ overall like all jobs its entirely situational and equal balance job like sch is benifited buy what sub it chose to use in very situation.

[Neomage]

Just going to touch on this quick. It would be like making convert available to other mage jobs, too much power. I wouldnt mind seeing the storms available as a sub tho.

As for best SJ for Sch in an on paper sorta way, is rdm party enspells/stoneskin/phalanx/blink, aoe dispel,gravity,bind out weigh /whm or /blm benefits.

But as for best SJ overall like all jobs its entirely situational and equal balance job like sch is benifited buy what sub it chose to use in very situation.

Nor would I. As a career BLM, I spend a lot of time trying to maximize my MAB, and am currently working on the Elemental Obis. It would be nice to give /SCH another perk, because it greatly lacks support magic that /WHM and /RDM give.

Back on topic: With Scholar, there is no "Good" subjob. Each and every one is completely situational, because in the very theme of Scholars, they need to change and adapt to their situation. If you need Erase and -Na, /WHM is almost required. However, /BLM offers MAB, sleep, warp, escape, and the Elemental Enfeebles. While you miss out on Slow and Paralyze(which are not very helpful anyway, given the dilema posed earlier) as well as defencive spells, the effectiveness of elemental enfeebles is often overlooked.

/RDM gives some of both worlds, but not much. You get Paralyze and Slow, but as mentioned earlier, their effectiveness is blunted. It would be better to leave these to a real RDM or WHM if possible. The defensive spells and Fast Cast,plus the (weaker) Sleep are a nice addition in a pinch though.

All in all, in a perfect party(Healer can take care of -nas, no hate problems, well oiled EXP grinding machine), I would say /BLM is the best subjob. However, this is rarely the case. As such, /RDM is nice to help out in a pinch. /WHM is only ever good if you are the main healer and need -nas and Erase.

[IfritnoItazura]

Back on topic: With Scholar, there is no "Good" subjob. Each and every one is completely situational, because in the very theme of Scholars, they need to change and adapt to their situation. If you need Erase and -Na, /WHM is almost required. However, /BLM offers MAB, sleep, warp, escape, and the Elemental Enfeebles. While you miss out on Slow and Paralyze(which are not very helpful anyway, given the dilema posed earlier) as well as defencive spells, the effectiveness of elemental enfeebles is often overlooked.
You'd also get Sleep from /RDM25; what you'd be missing is Sleepga, which can be worked around on SCH.

I'd strongly disagree with the idea that Slow and Paralyze not being helpful; even with longer cast time and higher MP cost from Dark Arts, they are well worth the when compared to the curing MP saved over time.

It'd be different with a RDM in party, but SCH should cast those spells instead of WHM, who is stuck with C enfeebling magic skill.

All in all, in a perfect party(Healer can take care of -nas, no hate problems, well oiled EXP grinding machine), I would say /BLM is the best subjob.
If a party like that can best benefit from SCH by asking him to use /BLM, the same party would probably do even better inviting a BLM instead.

[Malacite]

I'd strongly disagree with the idea that Slow and Paralyze not being helpful; even with longer cast time and higher MP cost from Dark Arts, they are well worth the when compared to the curing MP saved over time.


QFT. Personally I always take the hit and pop Dark Arts for the skill. Now, things are slightly skewed for me when I /WHM since I'm an Elvaan and if I know I'm subbing WHM or RDM, I'm going to eat Mush Pots for the +10 MND.

That makes for some very potent enfeebles.

[Neomage]

You'd also get Sleep from /RDM25; what you'd be missing is Sleepga, which can be worked around on SCH.

I'd strongly disagree with the idea that Slow and Paralyze not being helpful; even with longer cast time and higher MP cost from Dark Arts, they are well worth the when compared to the curing MP saved over time.


I think you misread my post. What I said was that /RDM got some of both worlds, including sleep. No-where did I say that /BLM was the only way to get sleep, what I was referring to is that /WHM didn't get sleep at all.

As for Slow and Paralyze, I did mention that while they have their uses, they are gimped on a SCH. That is why it is better to let a real WHM or RDM cast them if possible, and that /BLM was only really good in a perfect party situation(When someone else can cast Slow, Paralyze, and/or Erase/-nas)

[Pteryx]

Just going to touch on this quick. It would be like making convert available to other mage jobs, too much power. I wouldnt mind seeing the storms available as a sub tho.

Honestly, with all the hype over the weather spells and the fact that weather effects are pretty random anyway, I'd expected the ones we got -- single-weather spells -- to be subbable, and for SCH to get a double-weather tier II set to make it more attractive in post-sub levels. That SE did it the way they did was a letdown, and shows that they grossly overestimated their usefulness. -- Pteryx

[Neomage]

Honestly, with all the hype over the weather spells and the fact that weather effects are pretty random anyway, I'd expected the ones we got -- single-weather spells -- to be subbable, and for SCH to get a double-weather tier II set to make it more attractive in post-sub levels. That SE did it the way they did was a letdown, and shows that they grossly overestimated their usefulness. -- Pteryx

Very true. A 10% chance at 10% MAB isn't much. Statisticly, you would be adding 1% to your damage output for that element, unless you do possess the Elemental Obis. Allowing SCH to have double-weather would still hold their advantage, but let /SCH do something more to help out.

[Armando]

Very true. A 10% chance at 10% MAB isn't much.It's not a 10% chance; it's closer to 1/3 last time I looked up the info, which was admittedly quite a while ago, but I doubt it's changed.

Also take into consideration that it DOES affect magic accuracy as well by an unknown amount, with an unknown proc rate.

[Coinspinner]

If a party like that can best benefit from SCH by asking him to use /BLM, the same party would probably do even better inviting a BLM instead.

If you can find one. When I put parties together I rarely see one LFP. When I solo I see them, also soloing, but /anon or not seeking, and with a comment indicating that they were soloing @ <pos> on (Goblin) (Leech). I guess some people like soloing.

[Neomage]

If you can find one. When I put parties together I rarely see one LFP. When I solo I see them, also soloing, but /anon or not seeking, and with a comment indicating that they were soloing @ <pos> on (Goblin) (Leech). I guess some people like soloing.

Maybe they are just tired of getting invites for (Main) (Heal) (Caedarva Mire) (Can I have it?) /tells.

[Icemage]

It's not a 10% chance; it's closer to 1/3 last time I looked up the info, which was admittedly quite a while ago, but I doubt it's changed.

Also take into consideration that it DOES affect magic accuracy as well by an unknown amount, with an unknown proc rate.
30% or so sounds about right for the damage bonus from weather/day.

I'm a bit dubious about the magic accuracy bit. I've done my fair share of worm-nuking on three jobs now, and I've never noticed any appreciable change in accuracy regardless of which nuke was used on a particular day/weather - just the resistance of the target. If the effect is there, it's so small as to be placebo.


Icemage

[Coinspinner]

Maybe they are just tired of getting invites for (Main) (Heal) (Caedarva Mire) (Can I have it?) /tells.

I doubt a 50-ish BLM is gonna get that /tell, heh.

Hell, I'd take that invite on my BLM. But that's just me; I like watching parties wipe.