Abandoning one relic for another

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

Just a quick question, I am currently working on my Relic horn, however i kind of want to quit it to work on my Aegis. Is it possible to work on two relics at the same time or do i have to abandon the road to the Gjallarhorn?

Thanks

EDIT for future reference:

Well heres the little story behind why i want to do Aegis before horn, im not gonna DROP horn completely, i just want my Aegis first.

I started working on horn before i started getting HEAVILY into endgame as Bard, but once i got deep into endgame after getting some nice pieces for bard (osode, relic, etc) i realized all my good CHR/wind/singing gear has gone to waste because all i do is Ballad the Black Mage party (well chr not completely wasted cuz i still need to land elegy and lullaby) so i got kind of turned off during stage 3 relic. I started falling asleep during HNMs and Dynamis so i switched to using my paladin in endgame and love the thrill of tanking. So yeah... thats it lol.

All i was wondering is if its possible to do two at the same time, but work on one slower than the other.

[The Mauva Syndicate]

Considering the time and effort put into taking just one relic even to Stage 4, let alone Stage 5, and the sheer number of Dynamis sessions you would need to gather the requisite AC, I wouldn't think there was even a question - Why would you want to go through this excurtiating ordeal more than absolutely necessary?

Unless of course Stage 5'ing relics has gotten a lot easier (but then why aren't there more of them?)

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

I have Bard and Paladin leveled and at first i was excited about the horn, so i worked hard towards but i've grown more to using my Paladin in endgame instead of my Bard so Aegis is really important to me. I wanted to see if i could work on both at the same time (Relic horn at stage 3, just waiting on attestations from Dynamis-Beaucaine) haven't touched the relic shield yet, but i would like to.

[DakAttack]

Possibly something else we can blame on BBQKitten?

[Zempten]

Short answer is "Yes, you can work on both at the same time". However a more realistic process would be to continue with just one before you move on to another. Mainly because the reward of using a Stage 5 relic while building up your next relic will feel more fulfilling then getting both to Stage 5 simultaneously, which is going to take ALOT longer.

If PLD is that interesting to you, then drop Horn and focus fully on Shield. That's my opinion at least.

[Quetzalcoatl]

If PLD is that interesting to you, then drop Horn and focus fully on Shield. That's my opinion at least.

OMG shut up...who in this world would do this...(i hv seen a video of a MNK droping Relic H2H) thats just stupid...i say finish ur horn and then go for Aegis. but if PLD is more atractive for u would hv been better if u had upgraded Sword and Shield.

[Aksannyi]

I don't think he means throw it away, he means to "drop" the process.

[Feba]

I still don't understand why someone would start work on a relic without making sure they can finish it. Seems like a great way to waste a ton of gil.

[TheGrandMom]

I think this is one of the issues with relics that makes it unappealing. It takes so friggin long to complete it that by the time you are halfway or more to your goal, many people are interested in another job. Relics are for people that are excited to play that job and play it often so that all that work isn't for nothing.

It can still be challenging to complete a relic weapon but years is asking a lot, imo. I would be embarassed to have a relic that sat in my mog house when it could be benefiting my ls if someone that loved that job could be using it.

[Zempten]

I don't think he means throw it away, he means to "drop" the process.

Thanks Aksannyi

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

Well heres the little story behind why i want to do Aegis before horn, im not gonna DROP horn completely, i just want my Aegis first.

I started working on horn before i started getting HEAVILY into endgame as Bard, but once i got deep into endgame after getting some nice pieces for bard (osode, relic, etc) i realized all my good CHR/wind/singing gear has gone to waste because all i do is Ballad the Black Mage party (well chr not completely wasted cuz i still need to land elegy and lullaby) so i got kind of turned off during stage 3 relic. I started falling asleep during HNMs and Dynamis so i switched to using my paladin in endgame and love the thrill of tanking. So yeah... thats it lol.

All i was wondering is if its possible to do two at the same time, but work on one slower than the other.

[Feba]

I would be embarassed to have a relic that sat in my mog house when it could be benefiting my ls if someone that loved that job could be using it.

On the other hand, your mannequin would be epic.

[Malacite]

It's kind of a tough call, because both of those relics are insanely powerful, and usually easier to get than the others (due to their ridiculous usefulness)


If you enjoy PLD more, then do the shield first. A PLD with Aegis is one tough nut to crack. However, +2 to all songs (most importantly Ballad) is also insane.

[TheGrandMom]

On the other hand, your mannequin would be epic.

LOL Feba you always make me laugh....

...or wanna punch you in the face.









j/k (about the punching but not the laughing) :P

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

It's kind of a tough call, because both of those relics are insanely powerful, and usually easier to get than the others (due to their ridiculous usefulness).

I wouldn't consider Relic Horn insanely powerful, it's just that its essentially all HQ instruments rolled into one, save for the last threnody harp, which is still better for threnody if you want to get technical.

But considering what endgame BRD sometimes gets boiled down to, I do question all the trouble of getting the horn only play three songs at endgame. BRD really only plays two debuffs and then if the other buffs don't start with the letter "M" they're not played at all. So we can just get the HQs for those songs (cheaper) or spend billions of gil on a horn I never have to macro.

I'm really iffy on relics for RNG, personally, Annihilator is clearly a greatest gun a RNG could have. Problem is, I already have the best ranged weapon - RNG gets the ranged weapon that beats the crap out of all others at 55.

So I'm looking at Guttler from Dynamis or Quicksilver from Nyzul at this point. I'm leaning COR relic at this point, just gotta know the details behind the upgrades (if its going to require the same ordeal as Zilart relic, fuck it).

[LyonheartLakshmi]

I still don't understand why someone would start work on a relic without making sure they can finish it. Seems like a great way to waste a ton of gil.
I am of the opinion that even finishing a relic is a great way to waste a ton of gil.

[Murphie]

For many relics, perhaps. But the benefits of the two Selphiie is going for are pretty worthwhile.

[Sevv]

I do know you can cancel out of the relic quest to switch, I have to look where it is. I am actually doing the same 2 relics Selph, tho I am 0/20 on shield paper. Getting either of these relics more or less locks you into that job, aegis is sweet as well as horn. I will look up the process for switching the quest, ill post the info when I find it ^^.

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

If you can find that info that'd be great Sevv

The only thing thats keeping me from reaching stage 2 relic shield is that darn Amalthia leather, getting the hide is a pain in the ass, and finding a leathercrafter who can craft the hide is gonna be alot worse lol. Getting relic isn't a problem for me since i am the farming master lol. I'm financially secure enough to play the game while working on relic lol.

[Callisto]

I wouldn't consider Relic Horn insanely powerful, it's just that its essentially all HQ instruments rolled into one, save for the last threnody harp, which is still better for threnody if you want to get technical.

7/tick Refresh coming from 1 support role slot is in fact insanely powerful, not to mention the inventory +13.

Edit: One thing to take into account Selphie, these 2 relics have something in common, and that is that they are the 2 relics where once you obtain them, it becomes practically mandatory for you to be on that job at every event unless you're in a successful enough LS that is rolling in relic members. That is if you finish Aegis first, say buh-bye to using your BRD at most events for awhile, and vice versa for the Ghorn.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

7/tick Refresh coming from 1 support role slot is in fact insanely powerful.

Link? Its not that I don't believe you, its just the first I've heard of this. All other reports have been that the +2, for Ballads, only affects duration and not potency.

At any rate, that would thrill me even less to get the Relic, I'd be dooming myself to BLM PTs forever. Fuck that.

[Sevv]

It is 7tick refresh, trust me we always had the Ghorn brd in the tank party.

[TheGrandMom]

Yep our brd is usually in the tank pt too. But there is the rare occasion where we get him in the blm pt and W00T!!! more "crack" for us!

[nanatsu]

I'm really iffy on relics for RNG, personally, Annihilator is clearly a greatest gun a RNG could have. Problem is, I already have the best ranged weapon - RNG gets the ranged weapon that beats the crap out of all others at 55.

Sorry to take things off topic but this caught my eye. Why is E-bow better than Yoichinoyumi?

E-bow
DMG: 71 Delay: 490 STR +3 AGI +3
Ranged Accuracy +2 Ranged Attack +23

Yoichinoyumi
DMG: 81 Delay: 524
Ranged Accuracy +20 Ranged Attack +10

It seems as tho the stats alone for Yoichi are comparable, if not better, not to mention the hidden effect of occasionally doing 3 times normal damage. I'm not doubting your word since I haven't been a 75 rng for long, I just wanted to understand why E-Bow would be better than that.

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

As a Paladin, 7 tick refresh stacked with a RDM Refresh and my auto refresh is just...Yeah i'll never run out of MP lol. But I don't think most tank party bards do more than one ballad, It's usually Ballad II + Minne, but it varies by LS preference.

[Callisto]

Yeah, you're right, but that's still 2/tick more than you'd get otherwise...lol, I seem to have started a derail.

My point was that those two relics specifically pidgeonhole players into those two jobs for the good of the LS, unless you have an extremely strong LS with multiple Aegis PLDs and Ghorn BRDs. You said you enjoy playing PLD the most at endgame, so it would probably not be benificial for you to finish Ghorn first and be expected to come as BRD to most endgame events between when you finish horn and when you finish Aegis, that can be several months.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Sorry to take things off topic but this caught my eye. Why is E-bow better than Yoichinoyumi?

E-bow
DMG: 71 Delay: 490 STR +3 AGI +3
Ranged Accuracy +2 Ranged Attack +23

Yoichinoyumi
DMG: 81 Delay: 524
Ranged Accuracy +20 Ranged Attack +10

It seems as tho the stats alone for Yoichi are comparable, if not better, not to mention the hidden effect of occasionally doing 3 times normal damage. I'm not doubting your word since I haven't been a 75 rng for long, I just wanted to understand why E-Bow would be better than that.

The accuracy matters more to SAM than RNG. STR + AGI on Vbow/Ebow, more attack and a lower delay. Delay is a big issue for RNGs, we don't like to see it get bigger than it already is, which is why Velocity Shot was such a great update to RNG.

Plus its a lot of extra effort for what is already the most expensive job in the game. RNGs face the longest road to obtaining relic compared to any other job just due to the expense of the job. If RNG is going to choose one relic to upgrade, it should probably be the one ranged weapon that outshines the other ranged weapons in its particular category, which would be the relic gun compared to other guns.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

For many relics, perhaps. But the benefits of the two Selphiie is going for are pretty worthwhile.
For the time and gil it takes to upgrade a relic, it should let me solo Vrtra. G-horn and Aegis might be worth a while to obtain, but I still don't think it's worth the while that relics require.

[Murphie]

That's why they are so rare. Most people aren't up to the challenge, or aren't interested in the challenge. Which is ok.

[Malacite]

RNG gets the ranged weapon that beats the crap out of all others at 55.

O rly? Obow and Yoichinoyumi would like to have a word with you.

Situational much?
______________________________
I am of the opinion that even finishing a relic is a great way to waste a ton of gil.

And time



EDIT: Looks like BBQ is talking out his ass again. Proof of +2 to each ballad (http://www.killingifrit.com/forums.php?m=posts&q=67201) (though the video links are busted -.- I remember watching it years ago, it does in fact give 7 MP, 14 with soul voice.)

As for your ridiculous comments on Yoichinoyumi, I know at least 3 people on my server with it, and one whom I've merited with. The thing is devastating. You show me the Ebow that can pull off an 8k barrage on the Dynmais Lord. Oh I'm sorry, what that's? You can't. The triple damage procs often enough to eschew the delay difference between Ebow and Yoichinoyumi. Also, seeing as you've never fired Namas Arrow yourself, I'm guess you weren't aware that on top of it's impressive damage (Not as much as Sidewinder but still high at 2.75 and 40 STR/AGI) it's an enmity-free WS. (Coronach by comparison actually clears all hate, or at least that's what Shaolingoat told me) and while Ebow has 13 more ranged attack, that +20 ranged accuracy is pretty sweet.

Besides, as Armando kindly pointed out to me, haste effects are more noticeable on higher delay weapons. Well, Yoichi's got a good chunk more delay and would benefit pretty nicely from Velocity Shot.


I will concede to you that the cost to obtain it for a job that's already expensive is obscene, but then again all the relics are eff'n crazy.

[Susurrus]

Time it takes doesn' prevent me from doing it. It is the gil. I do not see how people get 2 million gil+ a week, especially in today's economy. Of course I haven't even gotten close to having one million in a long time...

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

The only thing now keeping me from stage 2 relic shield is that darn Amaltheia NM...not only do i have to beat him and trade MY relic shield to it, i gotta wait for another dynamis jeuno to get the relic shield back (IF it drops) and then find a 98+ leathercrafter on Odin who will craft it for me, /stagger.

It sure is a challenge... lol.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

EDIT: Looks like BBQ is talking out his ass again. Proof of +2 to each ballad (http://www.killingifrit.com/forums.php?m=posts&q=67201) (though the video links are busted -.- I remember watching it years ago, it does in fact give 7 MP, 14 with soul voice.)

I don't have to pull the literacy card on you, do I?

Its not that I don't believe you, its just the first I've heard of this.

I didn't speak out of cerntainty, but at the same time, I get no links and you give me busted ones. Good job. At any rate, Sevv answered the question, I'll take his word over yours, thanks.

When I'm unsure of something, I'll admit it and I did, so how exactly am I "talking out of my ass" about relic horn?

As for your ridiculous comments on Yoichinoyumi, I know at least 3 people on my server with it, and one whom I've merited with. The thing is devastating. You show me the Ebow that can pull off an 8k barrage on the Dynmais Lord. Oh I'm sorry, what that's? You can't. The triple damage procs often enough to eschew the delay difference between Ebow and Yoichinoyumi. Also, seeing as you've never fired Namas Arrow yourself, I'm guess you weren't aware that on top of it's impressive damage (Not as much as Sidewinder but still high at 2.75 and 40 STR/AGI) it's an enmity-free WS. (Coronach by comparison actually clears all hate, or at least that's what Shaolingoat told me) and while Ebow has 13 more ranged attack, that +20 ranged accuracy is pretty sweet.

Then explain to my why more RNGs upgrade Relic Gun than Relic Bow? In general, more SAMs go for the bow than RNG. There has to be a reason for that. I have the gun, I've pondered upgrading it, but lack the resources to so and have virtually no interest in Dynamis right now.

Coronach does clear all hate, btw. You can watch it go off frequently in Campaign with Elviera. I'd say 100% hate loss with the WS is all the reason, especially so if you can spam it by building TP with K. Club, which I have seen people do and it works quite well.

Besides, as Armando kindly pointed out to me, haste effects are more noticeable on higher delay weapons. Well, Yoichi's got a good chunk more delay and would benefit pretty nicely from Velocity Shot.

I would point out that 490 is still pretty high delay and also, just to be a smartass, that Velocity doesn't give Haste, it gives a Snapshot effect :P

[Sevv]

Selph I still can't find the link tho I am looking for it, The ram nm is so much fun btw =D.

[Sevv]

Some old screenshots of my fight

http://mysticalphoenix.com.dd3122.kasserver.com/forum/tp-images/Image/Amaltheia%201.jpg

http://mysticalphoenix.com.dd3122.kasserver.com/forum/tp-images/Image/Amaltheia%202.jpg

http://mysticalphoenix.com.dd3122.kasserver.com/forum/tp-images/Image/Amaltheia%203.jpg

http://mysticalphoenix.com.dd3122.kasserver.com/forum/tp-images/Image/Amaltheia%204.jpg

[Sevv]

Also I found the mentions of the old threads I was looking for and it seems, you would have to drop your horn in order to start aegis first. Not sure if this is 100% correct, I would suggest posting the question in the New Player section of BG, all the info without the flames.

[Feba]

Rams are much more fun from the perspective of a Taru.

[Malacite]

I didn't speak out of cerntainty, but at the same time, I get no links and you give me busted ones. Good job. At any rate, Sevv answered the question, I'll take his word over yours, thanks.

Did you happen to check the dates of those posts? They worked way back when, and it was on allakazham too, but I personally refuse to dredge through those infested hell holes anymore than necessary. And obviously people go for the gun because of the higher damage per shot (Though interestingly enough, Culverin +1 and Cannon Shells still beats out Annihilator and Silver Bullets, tho just barely) and that Coronach clears all hate. It's not because Yoichinoyumi is bad, it's because Ebow is still very good and by comparison much easier to get. It's not quite the same as comparing a Hellfire +1 and the Annihilator, where there's a much bigger difference in delay, and (according to wiki, though I think the Namas Arrow entry is wrong since every other relic WS is 3.0) it's WS has a stronger DMG mod (3.0 vs 2.75).


And guns just plain rule :D

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

It's not because Yoichinoyumi is bad, it's because Ebow is still very good and by comparison much easier to get.

And I basically said this before. RNG got what is argueably its best Bow at 55 and Annihilator is a distinctly different case, being far and away the better gun than any other in its class.

And really, Youchiyumi and Annihilator have the same end result like all other ranged weapons - similar tiers of weapon skills and effects, Coronach just having 100% enmity loss. I think Annihilator is much lower maitenence and easier to take advantage of.

Really, having one or the other seems to make the other more situational and if I had to choose, I'd choose the gun because Bows have more ammo to maintain and a fully upgraded relic gun would give me an effect from guns I didn't have before. V-Bow still has other effects thanks to arrows and I'd prefer to give my bullets some effect, seeing as most don't get any and spartan bullets are an utter joke.

[Sevv]

Yoichi is the better relic xD

[Malacite]

Annihilator is definitely easier to maintain since the cost of silver bullets is much more bearable than Demons & Kaburra arrows.

However, since Yoichi is usable by 2 jobs, that gives it a big edge. A SAM would have to be out of his or her mind not to take it (hypothetically, if they were essentially given everything needed for it no strings attached) since it would allow for double-light skill chains. (Tachi Kasha to close light, followed by Namas Arrow for a second Light Chain)

Yoichinoyumi also probably has a higher DPS than Annihilator due to the delay difference (like Ebow over Sbow) not to mention the use of PPA. If only Annihilator could use Cannon Shells, then it'd be no contest (at least as far as barrage and WS are concerned) between the two. I really do find it sad that because of that one ammo type, Culverin remains the highest damaging gun in terms of raw numbers. As for potential though, I would not want to be on the receiving end of a Barrage from Annihilator. If Yoichinoyumi can pop the Dynamis Lord for 8k, the gun can certainly hit 9-10.

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

Well guys, thanks for the advice, I have made my decision and going with the Aegis, my dynamis LS is planning on trying to fit the shield attestation in the next Dynamis-Beaucadine so i can have it for when i get to that stage. Thanks all for the help and wish me luck on my road to obtaining the Aegis :] and joining the ranks of the great Aegis Paladins

[Callisto]

Good luck. If you'd like I can take the 3/5 Ghorn off your hands, y'know, if you don't need it anytime soon. >.>