Proto-Ultima help

[FatCharlie]

My LS has done 3 Ultimas now and wiped 3 times. Every time we get it down to where he can start doing Citadel Buster, the countdown move, and everytime he spams it like 20 times and we end up wiping. Our PT setup is an 18 member alliance, Tank PT = 4 NINs or PLD/NIN, WHM, BRD; BLM PT = BLMs/SMNs/BRD; and DD PT= BLUs/DRKs/SAMs/Healer. We haven't had the exact same setup each of the three times so I didn't go into exact detail of the alliance makeup.

Is there a failsafe strategy for this part of the fight? We have no problems getting to this point at all. We try to do as many SC/MBs as we can. It just seems that all hell breaks loose when he starts spamming Citadel Buster 20x in a row.

Our strategy has been to have 1 tank engage Ultima and establish hate. Once he does this the DDs go in and start to SC, BLMs MB, and if we have any SMNs, they send in their Avatars. We try to keep this up until the Citadel Buster stage. I think we may have hate issues because whenever our BLMs try to stun a move it pulls hate, which shouldn't happen at all. I hope this enough to go on. I either go as WHM or BLM so I'm looking at things from 20 feet away.

[Urashima]

get a good tank pt going: NIN/DRK+PLD/NIN is what we use, so BRD+RDM+WHM are musts for support.

after that, invite a few dd/thf somewhere and for the rest just throw in SMNs and BLMs. too many melees on ultima is a ticking bomb because he is gonna use tp moves much more often - sam/thfs are great for holding hate though, but limit them to meditate as to not feed ultima tp. just use SMNs and BLMs, give BLMs a short leash in the beginning, let tanks build up hate and after that make sure you stun dissipation at 79%/59%/39%/19% so hate doesn't suffer a blow and during citadel blast make sure people know where to stand and who is getting blasted so they don't mpk everyone.

[FatCharlie]

So you think he spams Citadel Buster because he's built up so much TP? If so, I never really tjhought about that. Our NINs are levelling /DRK for this fight so maybe that'll help a bit.

[Icemage]

Citadel Buster is not a TP move, I don't think. I just did Proto-Ultima just now. I'm pretty sure it's just on a timer of some sort.

The trick to Citadel Buster is to have whoever it is targetted on RUN AWAY from everyone else. You can check who it's on by targetting Proto-Ultima and using "/assist <t>", which will lock your target onto whoever Proto-Ultima is going to hit with Citadel Buster. The attack has tremendous range, so steer well clear of the target. 2h abilities should be saved for this point, as he will put up either physical or magical invulnerability, and will remain highly resistant to the one he isn't immune to.

Oh, and it doesn't matter much what you use as a tank, except maybe a Galka Paladin, who can probably take a Citadel Buster and live to tell the tale... maybe.


Icemage

[tuggler]

Citadel Buster is not a TP move, I don't think. I just did Proto-Ultima just now. I'm pretty sure it's just on a timer of some sort.

The trick to Citadel Buster is to have whoever it is targetted on RUN AWAY from everyone else. You can check who it's on by targetting Proto-Ultima and using "/assist <t>", which will lock your target onto whoever Proto-Ultima is going to hit with Citadel Buster............
......Oh, and it doesn't matter much what you use as a tank, except maybe a Galka Paladin, who can probably take a Citadel Buster and live to tell the tale... maybe.

Definitely use the "/assist <t>" (possibly along with a line "/p Hate on <t>. Everyone else get out!", so that it tells your whole alliance exactly who has hate - in fact, have somebody dedicated to doing this job). Rather than the person with hate running away though, the rest of the alliance should run away. To be extra safe, leave the room and wait the other side of the door until the countdown has finished. If the person with hate runs away, they will just get drawn back in and if the others are still in there, the person with hate just becomes a ticking timebomb to the others and this is what will cause you to wipe. Also, during the countdown, I'd recommend that everybody but the person with hate stops any hate-generating actions (including resting inside the room)

As for Galka PLD's surviving it, I came close once, but failed by just 5 HP! Next time I go, I'm going to take some extra HP gear and whack that on during the countdown and heal myself right up before he does it. I hope to survive the next one!

[FatCharlie]

Is CB stunnable? I imagine stun wouldn't last very long so the timing would have to be just right.

[tuggler]

Is CB stunnable? I imagine stun wouldn't last very long so the timing would have to be just right.
Rumour has it that it might be. I'm gonna try on the very last second next time I'm the bomb.

[Icemage]

Is CB stunnable? I imagine stun wouldn't last very long so the timing would have to be just right.
Doesn't matter if it is stunnable. It's not something you want to hazard a guess on when it does 1800 base damage.


Icemage

[FatCharlie]

LOL, very true!!

[tuggler]

Doesn't matter if it is stunnable. It's not something you want to hazard a guess on when it does 1800 base damage.
Ahh, but if it is and you are the target, then you may as well give it a go, because you're going to die anyway.

[Icemage]

Ahh, but if it is and you are the target, then you may as well give it a go, because you're going to die anyway.
True. Stun works against some of his other attacks (sometimes - actually very rarely since his chargeup time is so quick, but I've seen it work a few times). I don't believe it works at all against Citadel Buster, though you're more than welcome to try. :p


Icemage

[Mog]

Ahh, Proto-Ultima. I remember doing this with my old linkshell. One of the tanks died and accidentally cancelled reraise and homepointed. How you do both during the fight is a wonder to me. However we still pulled through and were able to stun Dissipation.

When Citadel Buster comes along though, everyone yells their "OMFG! PROK CHOP SANDWICHES!!! GTFO!!!" macros. Good times.

But yea, the only strategy I can give you is what's already said. Make sure you have tanks, kiters, and stunners for this fight, as you'll need all of them for certain situations when you fight him.

[Olorin401]

OK this is gonna be kinda lengthy, so bear with me. This is the strategy write-up I had originally done for this fight, using information from the Wiki page for Temenos C-4 (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Central_Temenos_-_4th_Floor) and personal experience.

Proto-Ultima is a much stronger version of Ultima from the CoP Chapter 6-4 fight. The boss has five stages, based on the lowest percentage of health reached. This is important to remember, since if you wipe at any point and the boss regens, it will keep any abilities it has gained from reaching a new stage.

The Stages, with Spells and Abilities:

Stage 1:
Antimatter - Ranged targeted Light damage (ignores shadows)
Wire Cutter - Targeted physical damage (absorbed by two shadows)
Chemical Bomb - Cone Attack Slow II + Elegy ** MUST BE DOUBLE ERASED ASAP!

Stage 2: All Stage 1 Abilities plus...
Dissipation - Used at 79% Health, 20' AOE Dispelga ALL buffs, terror and hate reset. ** MUST BE STUNNED!
Nuclear Waste - 15' AOE Elemental Debuff, Used in combination with a single element cone attack + matching enfeeb
(Water = 40/tic poison, Stone = petrify, etc, Wind = silence, Fire = plague, Ice = paralyze, Lightning = stun)

Stage 3: Dissipation at 59%, Antimatter, & Nuclear Waste plus...
Equalizer - 10' AOE damage, absorbed by shadows
Holy II - Targeted Light damage, used after each TP attack, Target is RANDOM (blocked by one shadow)

Stage 4: Dissipation at 39%, Antimatter, Equalizer, Holy II plus..
Energy Screen - Invincible for 1 min (in other words, nuke it)
Mana Screen - Full Magic Shield for 1 min (in other words, melee it)
Armor Buster - 20' AOE Light Damage and Gravity (ignores shadows). ** TRY TO STUN THIS and ERASE GRAVITY ASAP

Stage 5: Dissipation at 19%, Armor Buster, Mana Screen, Energy Screen, Holy II plus..
Citadel Buster : 30 Second Countdown with draw-in, then 30' AOE Massive Light Damage and Hate Reset, ignores shadows.

What to know about Citadel Buster:
- Draw-In will only grab the one person who holds the most hate. Usually this will be your tank, but it could be someone else. Chances are about 90% if you get drawn in you will die, so just accept your fate, do as much damage as you can, and make sure your RR is up!
- If you're a tank for this fight, BRING A LIGHT AND MAGIC DEFENSE GEARSET. It will help immensely throughout the whole fight, not just to limit damage from CB! Light Carol also works well, so have a Bard or two handy. And make sure your WHMs have Shellra V fully merited and up at all times.
- When you see the countdown, do not run out immediately. You can make it out of the room if you start running before you see 15.. If you're a melee and Energy Screen is up, or a mage and Mana Screen is up, go ahead and run. It is very important to keep doing damage during the countdown!
- If you're out of the room you won't get hit or drawn in. After the countdown, have the main/backup tank and blink melees go in first, then the mages can join them.
- You can Stun it, but your timing has to be absolutely PERFECT. I've never seen it done successfully.
- If at all possible, zerg it fast and hard under 20%. The more damage you do, the less people will die from CB.

What to know about Ultima in general:
- Blind, Slow, Paralyze, Elegy, Stun, Gravity and Threnody will land, but he will gain resistance fast.
- Elemental DOTs will land most of the time. Have a BLM with a full-INT build (120+ if possible) handle these - go with the Burn/Choke/Shock wheel.
- Bio and Poison stick, but Dia and Requiem will be resisted.
- Dissipation must be stunned every time. I really can't stress this enough.
- With each stage his attack speed will increase.

Optimal Alliance Setup (yours may vary):
Tank Party - PLD/NIN, PLD/NIN, NIN/WAR, WHM, RDM/DRK, BRD
Mage Party - BLM x4, RDM/DRK, BRD or COR
Melee Party - RDM/DRK, BRD, 4 heavily-geared DDs

[Mog]

Optimal Alliance Setup (yours may vary):
Tank Party - PLD/NIN, PLD/NIN, NIN/WAR, WHM, RDM/DRK, BRD
Mage Party - BLM x4, RDM/DRK, BRD or COR
Melee Party - RDM/DRK, BRD, 4 heavily-geared DDs

RDM/DRK? I don't really see the need for chainspell stun in this fight. The Red-mages would be better off going /NIN for kiting purposes if the paladin or ninjas are down.....at least that's what my linkshell did when we took him on awhile ago.

[Callisto]

Even if you don't Chainstun, having the short timer from FC is very nice, so that you can toss some out to help the tanks and still be ready when Dissipation cames up. Also, CS Stun is viable to keep TP moves at minimum when going to zerg the last 20%.

[Olorin401]

RDM/DRK? I don't really see the need for chainspell stun in this fight. The Red-mages would be better off going /NIN for kiting purposes if the paladin or ninjas are down.....at least that's what my linkshell did when we took him on awhile ago.
Chainspell-Stun is actually useless in this fight. The RDM/DRKs are simply there as the main stunners.

And now that I think about it, you're right - you could have a RDM/NIN there as a tank or kiter.

[Yellow Mage]

Doesn't matter if it is stunnable. It's not something you want to hazard a guess on when it does 1800 base damage.


Icemage

Sentinel turns it to 180.

Unless this Proto-Ultima spams the move, then I see no problem with throwing a PLD or a /PLD at it. I say /PLD because I'm assuming a 75 cap, because it obviously is a 75 cap, or else people wouldn't be talking about RDM/DRK Chainspell-Stun.

[Icemage]

Sentinel turns it to 180.

Unless this Proto-Ultima spams the move, then I see no problem with throwing a PLD or a /PLD at it. I say /PLD because I'm assuming a 75 cap, because it obviously is a 75 cap, or else people wouldn't be talking about RDM/DRK Chainspell-Stun.
Proto-Ultima uses Citadel Buster approximately once every 2 minutes, give or take.

Chainspell-Stun is to keep its other nasty attacks off of you (particularly Armor Buster), not Citadel Buster.

Lastly, Citadel Buster is magic damage and it will laugh in the face of Sentinel, which only reduces physical damage.

Please do your homework if you're going to chime in about endgame activities with no first-hand experience.


Icemage

[Yellow Mage]

Proto-Ultima uses Citadel Buster approximately once every 2 minutes, give or take.

. . . Throw three Paladins and/or /PLDs at it?

Chainspell-Stun is to keep its other nasty attacks off of you (particularly Armor Buster), not Citadel Buster.

That wasn't my point: my point was my assumption that this was a 75-capped fight was correct because of the Chainspell-Stun strategy.

Kind of moot at this point, though . . .

Lastly, Citadel Buster is magic damage and it will laugh in the face of Sentinel, which only reduces physical damage.

I'm sorry, but you're thinking of Invincible (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Invincible). Sentinel was proven to reduce Magical damage a la 1000 Needles.

Please do your homework if you're going to chime in about endgame activities with no first-hand experience.

If I didn't, I wouldn't have been able to make this post. :P

[Icemage]

. . . Throw three Paladins and/or /PLDs at it?


That wasn't my point: my point was my assumption that this was a 75-capped fight was correct because of the Chainspell-Stun strategy.

Kind of moot at this point, though . . .

I'm sorry, but you're thinking of Invincible (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Invincible). Sentinel was proven to reduce Magical damage a la 1000 Needles.

If I didn't, I wouldn't have been able to make this post. :P
No, I am talking about Sentinel (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Sentinel).

Reduces physical damage taken and increases enmity.


1000 Needles is physical damage, not magic damage. (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/red-mage/46585-stoneskin-test.html)


Sentinel will not reduce the damage from Citadel Buster.

I suggest again that you do your research before you make yourself look any more foolish.


Icemage

[Sabaron]

500 by 100 pixels or 19.5 KB is too small for a cool sig picture.

Use the picture link and host your own.

[Yellow Mage]

/d'oh (Noticed Earth Staff only reduces Physical damage)

Nvm, then. ^^;

EDIT: I feel I should clarify what confused me is that I looked up the Blue Magic spell 1000 Needles, and it said that it was a Magical Blue Magic spell, aligned to the element Light.

But, I had forgotten that sometimes Blue Mages get different versions of their spells than that monsters' actual abilities.

That led me to think that this was tested in PvP against a Blue Mage's 1000 Needles, rather than a Cactuar's, as it actually were.

Ah, well. As stated below, though, a main job Paladin could use Rampart.

[Olorin401]

I'm sorry, but you're thinking of Invincible (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Invincible). Sentinel was proven to reduce Magical damage a la 1000 Needles.

Actually, neither Sentinel NOR Invincible will reduce or block magical damage. In all practicality you would want to use Rampart to get its really nice AOE MDB effect, in addition to at least 150 Light Magic defense.