What are your 'rules' for exp? [Archive] - Final Fantasy XI :: Dreams in Vana'diel

Eiyoko

01-27-2008, 01:31 PM

SMN:
1-I don't mind main healing, but if there's a white mage in the party they need to be doing what they specialize in instead of skilling up their divine/enfeebling constantly.
2-I am Elvaan. Hear my MP pool cry because it runs out more quickly than that hume red mage sitting next to me.
3-Don't abuse stoneskin. If you're a ninja, you tank through shadows. I can't spam stoneskin on you for your convenience; it eats my MP alive and I can only do it so often. If you're going to ask me to spam it, then deal with the fact that you won't have it up all the damn time.
4-Stop telling me what my job abilities and avatars do! I'm a level 70+ Summoner, I think I know what my 2-hour does by now. x.x (Okay, that's more of a pet peeve, but the guy that did that I think ended up getting drunk irl and got himself killed, lmao)

DRG
1-Tell me loldrg and I'll wonder why you invited me.

COR
1-Yes, I have refresh. And I shall use it as constantly as I can.
2-Yes, I am capable of pulling; however, I don't shoot stuff from 2 inches away like some pullers I know.
3-No, shadows are not required to pull. Don't tell me stuff like "If you don't have shadows you can't pull" because I'll just pull right in front of you anyway. I know what I'm doing.
4-Yes, I am capable of dispelling. Keep in mind it's on the same timer as my sleep ability.
5-Yes, I am capable of sleeping. Keep in mind it's on the same timer as my dispel ability.
6-If I'm going to look for a replacement, PLEASE don't make me do it while we're fighting T_T

DNC
1-Why am I on the back line? TP is gained from smacking stuff. No, I don't have meditate as a level 21 dancer; Who do you think I am, Wonder Woman?
2-My AF isn't out yet. Why else do you think I'm not wearing it? o.o;

-No morons.
-Don't contradict your decisions.
-If I'm the leader of the party, quit ordering others around as if you were.
-Don't worry. There are more places to exp than Aht Urhgan where people whore the stupid exp bonus so much.
-If you're Aht Urhgan only, you're only cutting DOWN the chances of getting yourself any exp at all. Take what you can get and stop complaining that you don't get an extra 10 exp per kill. If not, I'm not inviting you.
-Chaining is good exp. (EXAMPLE: I'd rather chain 5 VTs per 15 minutes than do a single IT mob per 20 minutes.)
-Search comments are your friends.
-Not inviting someone because of what language they speak is silly. Not inviting someone of another language because you're lazy and/or selfish, on the other hand, annoys me. (Example: "There's a rdm but he's JP") There's an auto-translate function for a reason, and it's not so you can toy around and make profane and disgusting jokes.
-The cake is still a lie.
-Use the force. And the cookies.

And if that's not reasonable enough, then I must agree 100% with Feba.

Then again, I do regardless.

IfritnoItazura

01-27-2008, 01:35 PM

1. Don't invite me as a replacement.
2. Don't make me find a replacement.
3. Don't waste my MP:
3a. ... by taking tons of damage when I'm the sole healer.
3b. ... by waking up the adds/links when I have them sleeping.
3c. ... by curing people missing less than 100 HP to full when I have Regen on them.
4. Don't pull unless I have MP.
5. Everyone must know how to use his own job.
6. Teamwork!

That's RDM; other jobs are similar, though I'll let rule #1 slide when I'm desperate enough for invite. ◀/sigh▶

LyonheartLakshmi

01-27-2008, 01:46 PM

1 "break" per hour is about all I can tolerate. If a player has to go afk more often than that, they shouldn't be in a party burdening others.

Yellow Mage

01-27-2008, 01:52 PM

{I'm playing solo right now.}

. . . Yes, I'm fully aware of everything that statement means.

Armando

01-27-2008, 02:06 PM

For PLD:
- If you are /NIN, you'd better pull hate regularly and put those shadows to good use.
- If you are WHM, you'd better Flash as much as possible.
- I need an external source of Refresh. I don't really care who gives it to me.
- If I use Sentinel, you'd better do something reckless at some point in the fight, otherwise it's a waste of a damned good ability.

This one isn't a hard-set rule since otherwise I'd find myself never having parties, but if you're a WAR below 50 you'd better be using a Great Axe and using Shield Break. Good luck justifying anything else.

EDIT: Oh, missed one. The mob's lowest level must check VT to the highest party member. If all the mobs are IT even to the highest member, you're doing it wrong!

Nuriko

01-27-2008, 02:17 PM

As WHM:

When I put "please don't cure over it" in my Regen macro, I MEANT it! The darn thing will restore well over 400 HP if you can just wait a bit!

As main heal:

If you have a PL, you don't have me.

Pteryx

01-27-2008, 02:34 PM

I don't feel I have any power to dictate what the rules are, but if I could:

1) The XP party is to be assembled in the following order: tank, refresher, other members as appropriate. The campsite is not to be chosen prior to the aquisition of a tank and a refresher, and is ideally chosen to suit the capabilities of the final group.
2) Pullers are to watch MP pools. If they fail to do this, they are to at least look when the mages point out their own MP total. If a mission-critical mage's MP is low, the puller is to abstain from pulling.
3) Front-liners are to pay attention to the announcements any SAM or BLU makes about TP, and to keep in mind that they may wish to self-skillchain and that disrupting this effort is not desirable. Just because skillchaining may be a waste of TP for you doesn't mean that you should punish others for trying.
4) If there is a THF in the party, the front line is to cooperate with the THF. This includes arranging a skillchain that the THF closes, using proper SATA tactics (for THF 30-59 and /THF 60+), and not complaining that the THF isn't pulling fast enough if things are chaining to 5 or more without the mages running out of MP.
5) Not every camp is Caedarva Mire, Bhaflau Thickets, or Wajaom Woodlands. As such, not every camp works best with the same members and tactics as a party focused on imps or colibri. As such, the meleeburn mentality is not to be applied to inappropriate enemy types, such as dhalmels or crabs. This especially applies to pre-50 parties.
6) A red mage does not have infinite MP. A red mage has a time-limited ability to restore their own MP that far exceeds that of other jobs. A particular red mage may also have a large MP pool, but this does not change the preceeding. A red mage who actually needs to rest because they're two minutes away from Convert is not "lame" or "gimp". All pullers and would-be usurpers of the puller job are to take note of this.
7) The Mire does not have infinite capacity, nor is it a universal, all-inclusive camp. Going there in and of itself does not magically result in the extreme XP/hour that is possible there under good conditions with a properly specialized setup. As such, suggesting that a party camp elsewhere is not a capital offense.
8) Red mages are not interchangeable with bards and corsairs for refreshing purposes. BLMx5 + RDM is not a valid manaburn setup.
9) PLDs are not to be healed by other party members while the PLD's HP is white. One should think twice before healing a PLD in the yellow. Only partially heal a PLD who is in the orange. If the PLD is in the red, cure-bombs are permitted. However, all of the above rules except the last are forfeit if the PLD's MP is low.
10) BLUs, DRKs, PLDs, and BLMs who are seeking an XP party but turn down traditional parties possessed of a tank and a refresher (or simply a refresher in the case of the PLD) are properly classed as "fucking morons".

Mog

01-27-2008, 03:31 PM

As black mage... I don't party on blm! Just kidding.

As samurai, either have a bard or a red mage in the party. Bard is preferred, but if absolutely none are seeking, red mage suffices. If there's only 1 real healer in the party, have all the DD sub ninja. Frankly, I don't care if samurai 1 does UB3R 1337 damage with warrior sub. If he's sucking up MP, I'd rather let him die and Homepoint to change his subjob back to ninja.

lionx

01-27-2008, 03:52 PM

That you dont suck. D:

Murphie

01-27-2008, 04:40 PM

That we get a steady rate of EXP with a minimum of breaks. I'm not concerned with party setup, so long as we have enough damage, enough healing, and enough tanking to get us where we need to be.

Neomage

01-27-2008, 05:18 PM

8) Red mages are not interchangeable with bards and corsairs for refreshing purposes. BLMx5 + RDM is not a valid manaburn setup.

QFT

Also: RDM SMN WHM BLM BLM BLM is not a valid manaburn setup >.>

Aksannyi

01-27-2008, 05:23 PM

6) A red mage does not have infinite MP. A red mage has a time-limited ability to restore their own MP that far exceeds that of other jobs. A particular red mage may also have a large MP pool, but this does not change the preceeding. A red mage who actually needs to rest because they're two minutes away from Convert is not "lame" or "gimp". All pullers and would-be usurpers of the puller job are to take note of this.

Totally my favorite one on this list. I'm gimp because I finished my Haste cycle, no one needs a cure, and I sit for a few? O.o

Prons

01-27-2008, 06:23 PM

I've said this before: I haven't been playing FFXI as long as you probably have, I still consider myself a noob. So for the love of God, if you think I'm doing something wrong, or can think of ways I can do what I'm doing better, go ahead and tell me. Ideally in a gentle way, I'm not paying 15 dollars a month to be shouted at. :)

Kasandaro

01-27-2008, 08:29 PM

9) PLDs are not to be healed by other party members while the PLD's HP is white. One should think twice before healing a PLD in the yellow. Only partially heal a PLD who is in the orange. If the PLD is in the red, cure-bombs are permitted. However, all of the above rules except the last are forfeit if the PLD's MP is low.

With Addendum:
9b) I don't care if I'm on WHM75, RDM50, SMN37, or SCH32. If you ask me, specifically, to come as main healer for a PLD party, don't assume I'm ignoring the PLD when they hit yellow. They've got Regen X and a full mp bar; they knew what the job entailed when they signed on. Don't nag me, don't /tell me, and don't cure bomb them unless they're deep in orange, preferably in red. If you keep cure-bombing over me and the PLD (especially when I'm one of the latter three), I have other things I can be doing, be it nuking, enfeebling, summoning, or whatnot.

And for the love of all, don't run around like a lunatic when you do manage to cure-bomb hate off the PLD. Cover requires you to stand still. If you run around in the Mire, odds are good you'll find us another Imp or Jnun (one *will* pop). If you do it in Garlaige and fall down a hole, I will laugh at you.

Boils down to what Feba said, with addition. Don't be stupid. If you think you're stupid, go fix your stupidity.

Coinspinner

01-27-2008, 10:26 PM

As BLM:

* Please, please, (Please invite me.) I'm already sick of soloing and I've only had to do it for 3 levels.
* Main heal: ok (Please invite me.)
* Positive exp/hour only! Willing to tolerate idiocy! (Please invite me.)

As SCH:

* DD will skillchain or they are out of my party. I only level this job for fun.
* RDM refreshes and debuffs, WHM heals, I do whatever I want.
* If I say you can tank, you can tank. Three SAMs with Seigan, with SCH and BLM to burst off Distortion, will rock on beetles. The RDM and I won't let you die, trust me!

Saren

01-28-2008, 05:16 AM

Other than the usual, same request as Prons. I have been playing just over a year but I know I still have a lot to learn and a lot of Room to improve. I don't expect babysitting but if you see me doing something questionable or you have a suggestion, please send me a tell about it? Polite definitely helps.

Armando: I've actually stopped flashing regularly in parties over the last few levels. Before then I was cycling with the pld but recently the mobs have started to not miss even with flash up (even before he switching over to a Hauby) and I know his evasion is capped and his gear is at least good, so I didn't see the point of using it unless someone pulls hate.

Armando

01-28-2008, 07:33 AM

That's odd. I'm level 70 and mobs are still missing me. The mob getting 2/3 attack rounds in is pretty rare for me. In any case, I eat sushi, so mobs very easily hit me for 100 damage unshielded. As long as I evade even a single attack, Flash broke even with the Cure line, and if I evade two, Flash wins the MP-efficiency contest.

Sevv

01-28-2008, 07:52 AM

As

War:
- Must be atleast 1 brd in the part
- If we have a cor you better not think about warriors roll
- Rdm/whm preferred unless the whm is very good
- If it isn't a burn pt don't waste my time
- Other Wars need to learn to voke off

Nin
- Must have a brd
- Burn set up

Drg
- Wyvern burn perferred
- Any party is fine

Pld
- Burn set up if possible
- pld/nin does not have voke don't spam me to voke.

Brd
- Tp or mana burn set up
- Must have good melees
- War if you pull out a great axe gtfo my pt
- Another brd or a cor is a big help

Rdm
- Must be a brd
- Good melee
- Melees need to know about shadows.

Blm
- Manaburn set up for a pt
- Duo/Trio is fun 2
- Understand how you manaburn...

Smn
- Just give me a pt ; ;

Whm
- Refresh
- I don't cure dumb people

Ellipses

01-28-2008, 08:00 AM

1. Don't be a cock. There are lots of little annoyances that'll get on my nerves. I like XP as much as anybody. But honestly, I really don't care about anything other than having a decent time. And I can have a decent time doing practically anything, as long as no one's being a dick. Bonus points if you're actually fun and/or get me reasonable XP (odd how those usually go hand in hand).

KoukiRyu

01-28-2008, 08:04 AM

Not to call Sevv out or anything....but some of his rules are...well, what the majority of people here hate. >_>;;

And uhh...what's wrong with G.Axe Sevv? Not everyone has Jugg/Ridill or whatever leet crap you have. :x
______________________________
666 posts so I had to post again really fast...uhhh my rules are mainly;

1-Be open, we can try something new, or uncommon and it could rawk, just because we don't go to the camp you always went to doesn't mean it won't be good.

2-Don't be a douche bag. :[

3-As few of breaks as possible please. :D

4-Know how to do your job.

I think that's it...nothing too specific, but I really enjoy trying uncommon camps for myself, because you never know how good it could be until you actually go. :D

Feba

01-28-2008, 08:12 AM

Smn
- Just give me a pt ; ;

You think that might have something to do with all the goddamn burn parties?

Aksannyi

01-28-2008, 08:22 AM

A few of mine: (Most of these apply to RDM and WHM)

-If for some reason, we all die, and I HP to come back and raise you, don't bitch about how long it takes me. I ate the most xp loss, not you. Furthermore, when I head back to town to change back to the job I was exping on, don't ask me if I'll PL the five of you. Even further, as I'm getting myself back to change jobs, don't fucking die again from aggro because you're too stupid to rest out of aggro range, and THEN expect me to come all the way back out there to raise you. If you die again before I leave, fine, I'll raise you, but when I've gone to change back already then you're SOL. You eat the HP this time for being dumb.

- Bring oils and powders, because hell no I'm not coming back to find you when your sneak wears next to twenty-six aggro mobs. The sneak/invis you get at the zone is courtesy, the rest are up to you. Further, if you die on the way to camp surrounded by aggro mobs that aren't going to depop, you might just want to suck it up and HP, because no mage in their right mind is going to attempt to raise you.

- RDMs, don't over-cure me when I'm on WHM. I know exactly how much HP a Cure II, III, IV, and V can heal for. Nothing pisses me off more than a Cure V for <100 HP. Things like this make me rather party with Bards. Also, take note: Your Regen will have no effect on someone if I've already casted Regen II or III on them. I know you know how to main heal. This time, I'm in charge of it so please back off. :) You should be happy to have the break.

- If you don't want to /nin for my merit parties, don't be surprised if I don't cure you the second you get hit. I have other things to do in exp, and part of the reason I asked you to /nin in the first place was so that I wouldn't have to stop my cycle to get you your HP back.

- Don't let me pull hate from curing you so you can get your shadows up, then voke. I'm not a tank, nor am I a back-up tank. Don't turn me into one. If I wanted to tank I'd have leveled a tank job.

- Conversely, if you're a WAR/NIN and I have two of you in the party, don't be surprised if you're asked to dual tank, especially if we have a Bard. Don't be a baby, keep your shadows up, trade vokes, and I'll keep you alive. Promise.

- If your gear sucks, don't be surprised if you're kicked. I understand the difference between, "I'm trying" and "I really just fucking fail." Coming to my merit party with level 14 rings is just not acceptable, nor is coming with empty slots. If you put so little effort into your gear, I find it hard to imagine you put much effort into playing well.

Ziero

01-28-2008, 08:54 AM

As

War:
- If it isn't a burn pt don't waste my time

Nin
- Burn set up

Drg
- Wyvern burn perferred

Pld
- Burn set up if possible

Brd
- Tp or mana burn set up

Blm
- Manaburn set up for a pt

Smn
- Just give me a pt ; ;

Teh ironing, it burns us!

As for my rules

Don't suck, don't be an ass.

I want my Exp, but I won't deal with jerks to get it. As long as I'm not surrounded by morons/asshats and we're gaining decent exp, I'm good.

Sevv

01-28-2008, 09:01 AM

Not to call Sevv out or anything....but some of his rules are...well, what the majority of people here hate. >_>;;

And uhh...what's wrong with G.Axe Sevv? Not everyone has Jugg/Ridill or whatever leet crap you have. :x

I have always been honest with how I party on my war or most of my jobs. Alot of people don't like that I will only burn on my war, nin, brd, rdm but it makes my exp quicker and less time spent on meriting getting my buffers back, so I have more time helping friends and my Linkshell.

I have {burn} {party} only in my /sea com. And I help out on everything else, I only will bring one of my jobs to a non burn pt if it is all linkshell.

@ 75 axe/axe or even axe/joy is far better in a meripo then great axe. The parse results are far more one sided towards dw, especially on birds.

You think that might have something to do with all the goddamn burn parties?

I usually smn burn on it, but it has been capped forever so I never use my smn. Was more of a joke.

Callisto

01-28-2008, 09:09 AM

As RDM:

1) If you want to take 1k worth of damage per fight because you can't be assed to keep shadows up that's fine, but don't complain to me when you eat R1.

2) Voke my sleeping mob before you hit it.

3) Don't tell me the exact moment when your buff wears off. It shows in my log too, I'll get to it when I finish casting the current spell.

As BRD:

1) Don't ask me for Madrigal because you're too cheap to use sushi and/or too lazy to swap in a good TP set.

2) See RDM #2.

3) Don't say 'keep pulling' when I'm obviously in the middle of an 8-second cast. I'll get to it as soon as the song is done.

COR:

1) Don't ask me to pull. Yes, I carry a Peacemaker, no I don't feel like doing 200 damage WS' because noone else wants to help pull. If you desperately need a puller, I'll go change to BRD or RDM.

2) See BRD #1 and substitute 'Hunter's with no RNG in the party' for 'Madrigal'.

3) Don't tell me which rolls to use, I can tell by looking at the setup and seeing how the party goes. WAR roll is in fact not the best choice in a party with no WAR but a SAM, DRK, or RNG.

4) See RDM #2.

5) Don't ask me to sub WHM.

6) Don't ask me to sub NIN.

Overall:

1) Eat food. I don't care if it's cheap food, just use something.

2) Time your WS's properly. Don't open a fight with LR/SE Guillotine then bitch about the NIN not keeping hate and you losing food over it.

3) If you need to go afk every 10 minutes, go do Campaign Battle.

Aksannyi

01-28-2008, 09:13 AM

2) Time your WS's properly. Don't open a fight with LR/SE Guillotine then bitch about the NIN not keeping hate and you losing food over it.

OMFG yes, this drives me insane. Even while leveling my Ninja, it drives me batty when other melees open fight with huge damage then expect me to get hate back. Even pulling every Ninjutsu trick out of my bag, I can't steal it back.

Another one I just thought of:

- Don't fucking pull with voke. Seriously. Or if you're going to pull with voke, be prepared to tank for a while, because no one's going to be able to get it off you for a while.

Raydeus

01-28-2008, 09:20 AM

- You do not party with Aka.
- You do not party with Aka.
- If you party with Aka you have to mpk him.

And that's about it. :thumbsup:

Sevv

01-28-2008, 09:26 AM

- You do not party with Aka.
- You do not party with Aka.
- If you party with Aka you have to mpk him.

And that's about it. :thumbsup:

QFT

I still got aka in the mire!

Celeal

01-28-2008, 09:28 AM

May I ask what Aka stands for ^^?

Raydeus

01-28-2008, 09:47 AM

Akashimo (the OP).

PS > Leader of the B-Aka Raiders.

Akashimo

01-28-2008, 10:08 AM

Ray, diaf.
<_<
Sevv, you know, I still hated that fast pace party you got me to go to.
>_>;
Also, you're rules makes me glad I didn't bring the hume to kujata. No way in hell would i accept pties of that standard on the mages >_>;

Kafeen

01-28-2008, 10:15 AM

Pld
- pld/nin does not have voke don't spam me to voke.

If you can't hold hate as /NIN maybe you should /WAR.

As RDM:
2) Voke my sleeping mob before you hit it.

Yes, please. I hate when I loose half my HP just because someone engages before doing anything to get hate. If I've got quite a bit of hate from multiple sleeps and try to get hate first, fair enough, but when someone doesn't even try its just plain annoying.

3) Don't tell me the exact moment when your buff wears off. It shows in my log too, I'll get to it when I finish casting the current spell.

That was going to be mine too. So many times I'm already half way through casting something when someone's shouting for it. RDMs tend to have a specific order they cast in, sometimes you get slowed down by other tasks, curing someone after a lot of damage, removing debuffs from someone, and you end up a couple of seconds behind your normal cycle, other times people just get impatient.

Armando

01-28-2008, 10:49 AM

Sevv, what's the problem with Fighter's Roll? Just curious. Multi-hit weapons?

Feba

01-28-2008, 10:51 AM

If you can't hold hate as /NIN maybe you should /WAR.

If the person is too stupid to realize their PLD is subbing NIN, chances are it's their fault for drawing hate, not Sevv's for losing it.

Callisto

01-28-2008, 11:08 AM

Sevv, what's the problem with Fighter's Roll? Just curious. Multi-hit weapons?

In my experience as a COR, Samurai's + Chaos has always yielded better results than a combination involving WAR roll, but I also don't get many actual WARs in parties, and many SAM's.

Mhurron

01-28-2008, 11:11 AM

If the person is too stupid to realize their PLD is subbing NIN, chances are it's their fault for drawing hate, not Sevv's for losing it.
No it was probably Sevvs fault.

Sevv

01-28-2008, 11:48 AM

If you can't hold hate as /NIN maybe you should /WAR.

I don't tank as pld in meripo mainly because it slows down. Pld/nin in a damage/haste/burn set up. You flash at the start for intial hate but people still ask the pld to voke.

Sevv, what's the problem with Fighter's Roll? Just curious. Multi-hit weapons?

I have a ridill Armando so upping double attack is counter productive to using the ridill.

If the person is too stupid to realize their PLD is subbing NIN, chances are it's their fault for drawing hate, not Sevv's for losing it.

^_ win for the ppl not noticing pld/nin

In my experience as a COR, Samurai's + Chaos has always yielded better results than a combination involving WAR roll, but I also don't get many actual WARs in parties, and many SAM's.

War roll is far better for great axe warriors or axe/joy and axe/axe. Also effects ws so if you are buffing for a zerg War roll is great even if man/ridill

No it was probably Sevvs fault.
<3 you 2

Callisto

01-28-2008, 12:07 PM

I have a ridill Armando so upping double attack is counter productive to using the ridill.

Heh, this is why I actually dislike having a WAR in the party. It's a once-in-a-blue-moon affair when I actually get Haste as COR, but with SAM roll I can gain TP quickly and put up respectable #'s...WAR roll speeds up all of the other melees but me, so I'm either unable to get TP when I could squeeze in a WS, or when I'm ready to WS I have to sit on TP b/c the other 3 DDs just smoked the mob or we just pulled and I know better than to use Slug 2 seconds into the fight.

Kafeen

01-28-2008, 12:25 PM

If the person is too stupid to realize their PLD is subbing NIN, chances are it's their fault for drawing hate, not Sevv's for losing it.
Really depends on the circumstances. If its a melee shouting for voke because they've SATA WSed at the start of a fight then its their own fault. Its its a WHM shouting for voke because they've got hate curing, then you should be holding hate better. Then if the WHM needs to cure that much then you're failing at /NIN anyway.

Akashimo

01-28-2008, 01:27 PM

He's a ridill war, they fail at everything. Even when not on war.

Sevv

01-28-2008, 02:06 PM

He's a ridill war, they fail at everything. Even when not on war.

<3 you 2 i gotz a bb now 2!

Eiyoko

01-30-2008, 08:25 PM

New rule:

The EXP band is nice, but it doesn't give you an excuse to only buy (and use) only ONE ring. Get two, you moron, and put it on once you use your EXP band. The effect doesn't wear off when you do that, I promise you.

And for Pete's sake, don't use it in a low-level party if no one else is. General rule of thumb for those: If one other person in your dunes/Qufim party isn't using an exp band, you shouldn't use one either. There's a reason you keep your party in close levels, you know, and it's not to see who can achieve a higher level by the time you disband.

Murphie

01-30-2008, 08:39 PM

I dunno. If my goal is to get as much exp in the time I have to party, I don't really care if I'm going to outlevel the rest of the party by the time I'm ready to go. My level won't be affecting them anyway at that point.

Mog

01-30-2008, 08:59 PM

IfritnoItazura

01-30-2008, 10:15 PM

It's the dewnz. Nobody really gives a shit.
Do you mean Valkrum Dunes, where new players first meet old players in parties? If so, then that's one place where old players should make concerted effort to be considerate and helpful, setting examples for the new players.

Boldfinger

01-31-2008, 01:17 AM

Do you mean Valkrum Dunes, where new players first meet old players in parties? If so, then that's one place where old players should make concerted effort to be considerate and helpful, setting examples for the new players.

Being honest, by the end of February I'll have been playing this game 'off and on' for about a year. I think I've partied about 4 times altogether because early party experiences in the Dunes generally weren't good and for the most part it was experienced players giving it "We're in the Dunes, who cares?" that made it like that.

I read on various forums that the Dunes was where you were supposed to learn basics like Skillchains, Magic Bursts, party dynamics and how to play your job correctly. When I was asking about things like that I was getting answers like "lol. Newb. No-one does Skillchains" or "We have PL, you don't need to 'insert job here' properly". I found it to be really not enjoyable so I've settled mostly for unlocking jobs, levelling them up to 15-20 and lowbie farming/crafting. I've managed to get RDM to 32 which enabled me to unlock advanced jobs and level some of those to 15-20 but that's been about it so far. I've been fairly close to quitting a couple times but I recently joined a very nice LS so I'm expecting that to be a thing of the past and that parties will be the norm from now on.

I just wanted to say that IMHO the Dunes would be a lot less 'LOL Doonz' if the experienced people that were complaining made the effort to change things :thumbsup:

Just my 2 cents of course.

Feba

01-31-2008, 01:34 AM

Dunes never was a good place to learn about the game. It's something people are forced to go through if they want to get a party at that level, and it's never been a pleasant experience.

Anyone who tells you they ever had a fun dunes party is a downright LIAR.

You never really started to learn anything until Kazham, but really you can't learn anything about partying from the 'standard' areas. Once you start to move out-- be that you're one of the people that goes to Shakrami and Korroloka, or you don't go until later and do Altep and such, you can start to learn. Once you meet a party and move to your campsite instead of moving to your campsite to meet a party, you can start to learn.

Anything before that is an unpleasant experience and practically forced grouping.

IfritnoItazura

01-31-2008, 01:55 AM

Anyone who tells you they ever had a fun dunes party is a downright LIAR.
Then I guess you'd call me a liar. =/

... Valkrum Dunes isn't always that bad. >_> Overall, it can be a really valuable experience for newbies. Valkrum Dunes taught me:
- How to Skillchain. (Yes, for real.)
- How to MB (from JP players, no less).
- Danger of undeads.
- Importance of Silent Oil/Sneak and Prism Powder/Invisible.
- How to run around Goblins without aggro.
- Importance of sitting home point.
- Food!
- The power and danger of Cure and Curaga.
- Managing MP--and to demand time to rest. >_>;
- The roles of Puller, tank, healer, and DD.
- Duo/trio tanking, and Utsusemi shadow counting
- And, much, much more.

Most importantly, I learned kindness in Valkrum Dunes. Strangers volunteered to help me get support job quest items. Random WHM's gave raise to party members who didn't set HP in Selbina or near by. Passer-bys cheered us on when we defeat toucher than expected monsters. Chocobo riders who dismounted to clear tunnel's bats so lowbies without oil can pass by safely.

And, I'll never forgot that a kind, high level player put together an entire party for me because I was feeling sad not not able to get a party as THF/---.

Is Valkrum Dunes a perfect place to play? Of course not! Yet, it's not just about the "noobs" and silly things they do or do not--it was the place I first found the FFXI community.

* * *

Don't scare the newbies so much; the first time in VE is a period of joyous growth. ^_^
Not to say there are not a lot of bad parties in Valkrum Dunes, but a dose or two of positive attitudes can go a long way.

Boldfinger

01-31-2008, 03:17 AM

Valkrum Dunes' shining moments for me.

Um, yeah. That's pretty much everything that I had expected but ended up missing out on :wasted:

Feba

01-31-2008, 04:31 PM

Then I guess you'd call me a liar. =/

Yes. I would.

Liar.

Armando

01-31-2008, 04:35 PM

And for Pete's sake, don't use it in a low-level party if no one else is. General rule of thumb for those: If one other person in your dunes/Qufim party isn't using an exp band, you shouldn't use one either. There's a reason you keep your party in close levels, you know, and it's not to see who can achieve a higher level by the time you disband.Counterargument, just because even I have to be an ass every once in a while.

If the person using the EXP band (Anniversary Ring excluded) is lower than the highest party member(s), that lets him catch up and perform better while not penalizing your EXP one bit.

Mog

01-31-2008, 04:46 PM

Do you mean Valkrum Dunes, where new players first meet old players in parties? If so, then that's one place where old players should make concerted effort to be considerate and helpful, setting examples for the new players.

I would like Valkurm Dunes more if it wasn't more of a hassle of exp'ing with newbies than necessary. 9 times out of 10, whenever I give a newbie advice, he just shuns me off and continues doing whatever mistake he sees fit.

I have a lot more fun soloing/PL'ing myself than partying here...

Armando

01-31-2008, 04:49 PM

Make a lot more seals, too.

I like seals. Baby seals, too, but that's a topic for another thread.

LyonheartLakshmi

01-31-2008, 05:12 PM

9 times out of 10, whenever I give a newbie advice, he just shuns me off and continues doing whatever mistake he sees fit.
How is that any different with a "veteran" player?

Mog

01-31-2008, 05:16 PM

How is that any different with a "veteran" player?

Well, basic knowledge of party mechanics and how to play this game is a whole lot different than knowledge in higher level, whether it be using a haste build, which weapons parse better overall, etc..

I mean, come on. When someone in a dunes party refuses to level his subjob, that's just being lazy.

Sevv

01-31-2008, 05:31 PM

Well, basic knowledge of party mechanics and how to play this game is a whole lot different than knowledge in higher level, whether it be using a haste build, which weapons parse better overall, etc..

I mean, come on. When someone in a dunes party refuses to level his subjob, that's just being lazy.

If possible i would thank you more then once.

IfritnoItazura

01-31-2008, 05:50 PM

Funny, four out of five times, newbies take my advice well. Heck, they even ask for more.

As for refusing to level support job, I don't see that. After I tell them invite will drop off soon if they don't do it, they all promise they'd start leveling support jobs right away.

* * *

A month and a half ago or so, I helped a new Valkrum Dunes player get support job items, keys for airship pass to Kazham, and get her(?) started on the Chocobo License quest along with another high level player.

Wasn't for me to dispense advice, since the player was Japanese and my Japanese is barely good enough for ordering ramen. Then again, the player obviously did a lot research already and knew about all those things already, except the Kazham airship pass. S/he did take the advice given by JP players in while we were in party, of course.

The newbie was so excited, and his/her enthusiasm was infectious. Very nostalgic night for me, and I rather enjoyed it.

Mog

01-31-2008, 05:57 PM

Truece

01-31-2008, 08:53 PM

It's not only underleveled subjob though. Some people think that leveling job XXX/YYY is the best combination for all levels, while all it does is hurt the party.

Like, for example, anyone who shows up to the dunes /NIN? Gah! There's one for the pet peeve thread ><

Akashimo

01-31-2008, 08:59 PM

WovenDarkness

01-31-2008, 09:04 PM

Akashimo

01-31-2008, 09:20 PM

Frustrated with wars much? lol
Very.
Espically DD onry.
And parser.
And ridill.
And with other DD onry jobs at 75.
And DD onry.

WovenDarkness

01-31-2008, 10:08 PM

I see. lmao!!

Sevv

01-31-2008, 10:14 PM

Very.
Espically DD onry.
And parser.
And ridill.
And with other DD onry jobs at 75.
And DD onry.

How about lvl 25 monks with black belt?

And you could just say espically Sevv

Akashimo

01-31-2008, 11:14 PM

How about lvl 25 monks with black belt?

And you could just say espically Sevv
If it was possible to hate someone more than ray and occassionally feba in off topics, combined, you're #1 there. >_>
Don't get me started about ppl with black belts either.
Why can't you go back to Sevvvy the Absent? >_>;

Iarendiel

02-19-2008, 06:15 AM

As Brd:

1. If my flag is not up, I'm not interested in a party. Please leave me alone. I even keep a /seacom up constantly. Read it.
2. Bring sneak oils and prism powders. I'm a Bard, and I have about 150mp. Your needing sneak/invis is not my problem. And no, I have no songs that give Sneak/Invis. (you would not believe the amount of people that actually still ask that)
3. It has been mentioned before, but please voke my mob after I sleep it. There is nothing I love more than being out of party range while pulling, and having three members of my party chasing after me because they didn't manage to voke the mob properly before laying into it.
4. If you are PLD, and you want Ballad, then I expect you to compromise, and line yourself up with the Mages so I can get my Ballads off on you. If you can't manage that, tfb. I've got three other songs and pulling to also worry about.
5. @melee: I am not a short order cook. I ask at the beginning of the party if there are any particular songs that you need. In normal situations, this typically translates to: Choose two from the Minuets, Marches, and Madrigals, or Mambo. I don't want to hear 4 different Etudes, and Ballads, and March and Madrigal for the DRK. Work it out, or you are getting Minuets. ;)
6. I am willing to find my own rep, but you must be prepared to settle for something other than Bard. No, I don't ask Bards that don't have their flags up; No, I'm not going to party an additional two hours waiting for another Bard. I give 30-45 minutes notice, and I have to pull. Work it out, or we disband in 45 minutes.
7. I've been doing this a long, long time. I'm certainly not the best Bard out there, but I can do what needs to be done. Please stop hounding me if things are not happening the way you would have them happen in your 'ultra perfect get all the chainsomg' world. I am not your automoton. If you don't like it, then boot me. I can assure you I have no problems finding other parties. :)
8. Please give me 5 minutes or so to acclimate myself to the party setup. I'm not a burn onry Bard, I actually enjoy the challenge of using my job in many different situations. Please be patient, and give me a chance to get my timing down, before you start whining.

Oy...tee hee :wtf:

Selphiie The Enchantress

02-20-2008, 08:33 PM

1. If my flag is not up, I'm not interested in a party. Please leave me alone. I even keep a /seacom up constantly. Read it

I just dont like to /anon and despite having
"Party no thanks, im playing solo right now" in my /seacom, i still manage to get /tells from blind morons who go "Burn party, do you need it?"

Omgwtfbbqkitten

02-21-2008, 05:00 AM

As

War:
- Must be atleast 1 brd in the part
- If we have a cor you better not think about warriors roll
- Rdm/whm preferred unless the whm is very good
- If it isn't a burn pt don't waste my time
- Other Wars need to learn to voke off

Explain why you don't want Fighter's Roll, please. Just because its not of great benefit to you doesn't mean it won't benefit the other melees in party. Addtionally, you insist other WARs should learn to voke, but later state that when it comes to PLD/NIN, they can't tell you to voke off them? Confusing.

Brd
- Tp or mana burn set up
- Must have good melees
- War if you pull out a great axe gtfo my pt
- Another brd or a cor is a big help

WAR/SAM gets +15% Haste with Hasso and evasion abilities with Seigan, they've never caused me any problems in merits or EXP.

My rules for EXP:

As RNG: Sir Bard, don't do March x2 on the PT. Do Minuet x2 or I'm coming /WAR no matter how badly you want me to come /NIN. I will not accept gimp buffs on RNG, period. Additionally, if I'm RNG, I'm not pulling in a merit camp, no exceptions. I have Loxley Bow, but I refuse to use it for party pulls. If I'm meritting as RNG, I'm there for epeen just like all the other DDs and mostly just there to laugh at WARs or MNK WS damage. Someone else pulls, not me. Ranged Weapon =/= puller.

As COR: If I'm not in the mood to pull, I'm not in the mood to pull. Don't engineer a situation in which I have to pull, I'll just leave. Don't ask me to sub /NIN or /WHM if I'm not pulling, I'll just drop, I won't play with the inferior EXP/Merit subjobs when I have /RNG and /WAR for DD and /DNC for PT healing/support. If I'm in the mood to pull, which does happen, I'm down for any setup, so long as its functional.

As BST: If I was there before you, don't expect me to leave just because you brought an EXP PT. If I was there before you, farm somewhere else, I'm probably EXPing. If you're a BST "soloing" with a WHM or RDM tethered to your ankle, please just fucking quit BST, you poser.

As BRD: I'll take any PT setup so long as its effective. I don't see my being BRD as something that makes me special I just see it as an opportunity to help my friends get merits and get easier merits for my other jobs.

As SCH: I'm here to free up the other mages' roles, as such I should be invited to help a RDM or SMN focus on thier main job's role rather than make them a main healer. If we have a WHM, I'm there to support heal and play a nuking role. My job is what the party makes of it.

As DNC: See SCH, I'm there to take pressure off other jobs. I'm here to support/cure/DD, I'm not here because you couldn't find a tank. I'm not tank, I dance. If you expect me to tank just because you couldn't find one, I will leave.

As DRG: Keep in mind I can be more than just a DD, I can help support as well. If the situation calls for it, I don't mind subbing mage.

Iarendiel

02-21-2008, 05:14 AM

I just dont like to /anon and despite having
"Party no thanks, im playing solo right now" in my /seacom, i still manage to get /tells from blind morons who go "Burn party, do you need it?"

I absolutely agree with you. I shouldn't have to roam about Vana'diel /anon in fear of being harassed incessantly for parties, when I provide a /seacom. I mean, you had to check me before you /telled me. There is a little yellow dot by my name....you either didn't bother to read it, or you just didn't care. Either reason is cause for me to ignore you, or simply say: {/seacom} {Please check it.}. To be fair though, 95% of the time, when I say that, they apologize after. The other 5% just get mad at me; and they get blacklisted. :thumbsup:

Oh well, it is still going to happen, no matter how much I gripe about it here, lol.

Grizzlebeard

02-21-2008, 05:22 AM

Most likely any new player, or prospective buyer of FFXI, reading this thread could be forgiven for thinking this game is full of min/maxing elitist pricks and move on to something else. This has always been the irony behind the superior community FFXI claims to possess.

Selphiie The Enchantress

02-21-2008, 05:55 AM

Heres my rules for exping:

75 Corsair:

-Don't tell me what rolls you WANT, I AS THE CORSAIR will decide based on the party setup what rolls to give, you are not the corsair, your the warrior who engages and goes AFK only to come back to WS.

-Don't get mad if i roll and unlucky number, dont make an example of me either or laugh at me, corsairs CAN and will find a way to bust the effect so you dont get the bad effect.

-Don't beg for rolls, we can't apply fighter's roll again if i still have fighter's roll active, we aren't Bards.

75 Bard:

-Don't ask me to sub /ninja, because I won't im going to sub /rdm for Phalanx and to keep my own cures in check so dumbasses won't cure me knowing i have a Minstrel's ring on, I also get fast cast, and blink, i dont even both with stoneskin.

-Don't get mad if you dont see "omgwtfchain300" Im going to do my job, if its not good enough for you then find another bard, its not that hard to find a party as Bard anyway.

-Don't, and i seriously mean DON'T invite me to a camp that is already taken, im sorry but i refuse to camp on top of anyone. You can say we can outpull them, but im not an asshat like you that wants to steal other peoples camps, seriously, you hate it when its done to you, don't do it to other people.

-PLEASE search ahead of time for a camp before inviting me, God if freakin Mamool Ja staging point only has one party but Caedarva mire has mobs spawning purple WHY would you bring 6 more people to Caedarva mire.

75 Paladin:

-I won't sub Ninja
-I'm a blood tank, its PALADIN, Paladins are not Ninjas. You lazy TOAU Mages need to understand that Tanking is not sitting there NOT taking its, its taking hits for the party so you dont die.

75 Beastmaster

-I don't party as BST anyway lol, but at the same time for you Beastmasters, PLEASE search ahead of time before coming to a camp and camping on another BST, I am never /anon and i have it in my /seacom where I am and what Im fighting. ALthough despite doing this there are still these idiot Beastmasters who show up and start stealing my pets and mobs, your only killing your own exp for being a douchebag.

57 Warrior:

-I'll sub whatever i damn well want to sub, if i come to the party as WAR/DNC then im going to play WAR/DNC, If i come to the party as WAR/SAM with a great axe, then im going to play WAR/SAM with a great axe. Get out of your TOAU mindset with only "lol WAR/NIN onry dual axe ftw". Can you beleive there are 75 WARs with no Great Axe skill. Its embaressing.

-WARs are tanks, I enjoy tanking, i don't mind if you invite me to tank, just dont expect me to blink tank or take hits as well as a PLD, get off ur butt WHM and play your job like it used to be.

37 Red Mage:

-Im not a pink mage, im coming to exp as RDM/BLM, if u dont like it, oh well, finding partys isnt that hard anyway, but you'll be begging for me back once i hit refresh level.

-Im a RDM not a WHM.

Summoner:

-Summoners are not gimp WHMs, I don't bust my ass for fame and avatars just to sit there and be a curebot. If you don't like it, wait for a WHM to start seeking.

62 Dancer:

-DANCER IS NOT A TANK
-No I won't main heal
-I am going to sub /samurai for Store TP and Meditate, don't ask me to come sub /nin, because I won't.

IfritnoItazura

02-21-2008, 06:15 AM

WAR/SAM gets +15% Haste with Hasso and evasion abilities with Seigan, they've never caused me any problems in merits or EXP.
I thought Hasso is only 10% Haste?

As SCH: I'm here to free up the other mages' roles, as such I should be invited to help a RDM or SMN focus on thier main job's role rather than make them a main healer. If we have a WHM, I'm there to support heal and play a nuking role. My job is what the party makes of it.
Personally, I prefer playing enfeebler as primary role on SCH/RDM if there's a WHM in party (since that probably means no RDM), using the rest of my MP for cure or nukes as secondary duty, depending on how well the WHM is handling MP.

My SCH only nukes as first priority when there's both WHM and RDM. (That happened a total of once in 43 levels, I think.) After all, if a party really wants a nuker, might as well invite a BLM instead of a SCH.

* * *

I think all I really want out of my fellow party members is for them to do reasonable, sensible things, and keep the amount of stupidity low.

Don't waste MP free nuking with Banish on WHM or any other job. Do bring level appropriate weapons, and wear suitable armor and accessories which actually for the role one plays in party. (Hint: Empress Band shouldn't be worn full time on any job.) Don't go AFK mid battle. Do pull with MP level in mind as well as exp chaining. Don't stack Berserk, Last Resort, and Souleater all together--do not activate all three and drop a WS all within a three second period, either. :wasted:

Etc.

Callisto

02-21-2008, 06:47 AM

My rules have all changed as of last night.

I will only merit as COR/WAR for the rest of forever.

There must be a DRK and a BRD present in the party.

There must be a Squid Sushi+1 vendor somewhere within 15 feet of the merit party.

Friggin' awesome.

Eiyoko

02-21-2008, 07:53 AM

Arris

02-29-2008, 06:51 AM

I ran into an lolninja (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/ninja/70612-what-tell-guy.html) so now I have a new rule.

I don't care if you're leveling this job as a subjob. Play it right, play it the way you're expected to play it, use what you're given, or kindly get the @#$% out of my group and solo your ass to 37, because I won't sit here and watch you tank without shadows and by only voking when the mob runs to the mages (and guys, this includes if it's hitting anyone else in the party. OW.). I don't tolerate that crap, now either get your act together or go play some silly korean MMO instead (http://eng.pristontale.com/) so I don't have to put up with your lack of intelligence.

oh yes thanks for saying this. I've ran into so many ppl saying that.

My rules, Don't pt when your sleepy I get tired of inviting ppl only to have them say like 30mins later I need to go.

Stop lvling and do some quests and missions. I'm seeing lvl 60's with not even a single piece of AF.

RANK UP! I know a lvl 72 rank 2 person, he refuses to do rank up because it's time consuming he says. Yet he can look for party for hours on end.

If you see someone dead in campaign battle DAMN IT RAISE! lol

Lunaryn

03-01-2008, 08:12 AM

I punt anyone, in the dunes who /nin
Espically later on passed the dunes, like wars who use /nin before 74 >_>
And rngs
And drg
And war
And mnks /nin at any time outside of ls events
And war
And drks
And sam
And war
Agreed on Dunes, no one should sub NIN pre-20 and very few should consider it pre-24. I have to take some issue about shunning it at later levels, though. I have gone WAR/NIN since 24, it is a worthwhile sub for tanking, I do tank when given the opportunity. I do not dual-wield axes (GAxe, very occasionally Axe+Shield). I do seem to be a rare exception in being willing to tank, though.

Also, RNG/NIN at 28 makes a good deal of sense, dual Archer's/Hawker's makes a huge difference at that point.

(I've also gone DRK/NIN on occasion, at request of my static, particularly between the two 2H adjustments, but normally you shouldn't want to do this.)

Firewind

03-14-2008, 09:34 AM

As a White Mage I usually have the following 10 rules. 100% of which are just common sense to be honest:

1) No blind invites unless you're the only party at my level in the zone. It's rude.

2) Please don't complain if I ask you how many are in your party and what jobs are in there. If I am getting several invites I will go for the most complete party.

3) If you have a PL then please tell them to stop healing over my regens. If you are backup healer then please don't heal over my regens. If you have any healing spell at all then please don't heal over my regens. That spell cures 125 HP is you give it the time and healing over it is pointless unless it's an emergency.

4) If you are the puller and you wilfully ignore both my MP bar and my MP status macros then I will "forget" to watch your HP bar.

5) If you're tanking then please co-operate with the THF. If I have to cast Regen on the THF because you messed up his/her SATA then expect one or both of us to bring that up after the battle.

6) If I have less than 50MP and our party got put into a critical by a Bomb Toss I WILL use Benediction. No I don't expect the mob to get voked off me instantly but I do expect you to listen to the very clear warning that I am about to use it and please not to complain if I have to sacrifice myself in order to save the party. Same goes with Curaga (with or without D.Seal).

7) If I ask the party to gather together for Protectra, Shellra and/or Bar-Spells (as my macros say) it is so I can recast Protectra, Shellra and/or Bar-Spells on the whole party at once. If you run off pulling while I am casting then I may well not have the time to buff you mid-battle.

8) If I ask the party if anyone are [insert negative status that I can cure here] after the battle then please tell me then and not halfway through the following battle.

9) At under Lv50, Raise 2 and Raise 3 only have the same effect as Raise1. Please take this into mind when I can Raise you in an instant whereas waiting for a Raise 3 can lead to more downtime than us just simply waiting for your weakness to wear off.

10) Healing you to 100% health after battle when you have regen on you and/or have more than 80% health is not always necessary. Please take this into consideration if I need to rest between battles.

Dahc

03-14-2008, 10:35 PM

Speaking from a RDM perspective I would say there are a few things that <for me, turns a good pty into a bad on for me, not really rules just things that urk me.

1. IF you have the capability to cast a haste spell or haste ability on yourself don't get pissed at me if I miss you in a cycle. I will get to you if I can if not, use your own ability
2. Please for the love of god if I have a haste cycle and a refresh cycle going and enfeebling the mob all while keeping the mp steadily flowin, don't get pissy if I stop to heal. EXP is cool and al but at some point i need to wait on my timers
3. Please come to the pty prepared! Knowing your job is a kudos to you but don't let that be the fall back to not having the appropriate gear for your lvl. I could care less if you use food, but at a minimum have the gear that is appropriate so I don't have to keep curing your butt to keep you alive( this is prevalent in the dunes, I see it often while playing a lower lvl job these days)
4. Please, lets not be A**holes about not getting dispel cast on the mob, it is a rare occasion that I would miss it and If I do miss it, it is probably casue I am doing something more important like keeping someone alive.
5. PLDs, now while I will say this is rare , please use the MP you are given. It really peeves me that there are plds that do not use the full potential of their MP. I always have PLD second in line only to me when it comes to refresh. If I am pulling hate off you cause I have to curebomb your butt and you still have a full mP bar, something is very wrong.

anyways these are the few things that turn me off of wating to pty with a few of the Arses that are out there.

Firewind

03-15-2008, 08:56 AM

I have a few I usually have when play as a BLM (at Lv18):

1) Don't get ratty if I missed a MB. We are at Dunes level and nobody has anywhere near enough weapon skills or elemental spells to Skillchain to any degree of effect.
2) Don't complain if i suddenly stop nuking. I sub WHM so I can backup heal and have access to most of the useful enfeebles. If I'm not nuking I will be releiving the WHM or RDM by doing one of both of these things.
3) At Dunes levels Blizzard costs a lot. I don't have infinite MP so I WILL sit out for MP if I have none. If you chose to ignore my "No More MP!" macro then I will choose to ignore you pestering me to MB.
4) Bio over writes Dia. Why would I waste the WHM's Dia when I can use Poison or Shock for essentially the same effect?
5) If you are a RDM and I see you anywhere near melee when you could be assisting me or the WHM then expect me to get annoyed. I don't mind RDM's going into melee when the mob is near death or me and the WHM have nothing to worry about but please if the tank is about to die help out with curing so the WHM doesn't get ALL of the hate.
6) If I don't use an AoE spell it's because I will hit a link and I don't like being responsible for a party wipe, not because I'm gimp or I suck.
7) If I am nuking and you have provoke I expect it to be used every 30 second without fail. When I say "Voke it now!" I mean "I have hate and would like you to use provoke before that Goblin turns me into a mithkabob" not "Stand there and watch that Goblin turn me into a mithkabob then shout at me for drawing hate."
8) As a BLM it is almost impossible to get into a party due to the unpopularity of them. I can be waiting from an hour to six hours before I even get a /tell for a party. Expect me to be annoyed if I am a rep and you disband after less than an hour or exp time
9) If there is no WHM, SCH or DNC expect me to say no to main healing. I can cure but I don't get Cure 2 and Curaga until the 20's and barfira until the mid-30's.
10) For the love of God please don't invite me to a party without someone with WAR as main or sub. No provoke = swift and painful deaths for Black Mages
11) Manafont = death. If I have no MP I will rest I won't use manafont and spam nukes. Manafont is for soloing and curebombing lazy PLDs, not drawing more hate than the tank's provoke spells.

A few rules (read: Semi-rants) I have in general:

1) If you want me to change classes could you tell me when you are /telling for an invite and not when I have arrived at the camp. I likely just spent about ten minutes getting to the camp and used a lot of MP on Sneak and Invis. I don't want to have to go all the way back tp a MH then all the way back to you just because you were lazy.

2) If I am a rep then could you tell me when you are going to disband before inviting me? Having thee party disband after 20 mins is one thing but having it disband when I or another party member is at less than 100TNL is just plain rude.

3) LISTEN TO THE MAGES When the mages say "Wait!", that means wait, not "run off pulling mobs". When the mages say "Voke it!" they mean voke it, not "let it wipe the party then voke it" if the mages say "I have no MP!" they mean have no MP not "Go and pull more IT++ mobs while we have no way of healing and supporting you!". If they say "Link! Run away!" they mean that someone hit a link and everyone should quickly zone to avoid wiping not that they saw an elf from a popular Nintendo series and are running in fear. Mages don't use party chat for the fun of it. Mages, being on the back row at all times tend the have the best view of the battlefield and so can more easily spot any danger or anything important of note. If the mages say that something is happening then chances are it is happening. I've had a party wipe because we were blood aggro'd by Wights in Qufim mid-battle. I was shouting warning for a full five minutes that there were Wights and we should move but the party ignored me. Basically the tank got hit by Screwdriver, a nearby Wight blood aggro'd him and killed him. Our DNC and MNK attacked the wight and caused it and 3 other Wights to link and kill them. It was a huge chain reaction and our party ended up running in all directions and getting picked off one by one by a "party" of about 5 Wights all because the front liners refused to listen to the mages. Remember that you should be nice to the mages, especially the White Mage and inccuring their wrath is not a smart idea when they can choose who lives and who delevels.

4) If an elemental spawns near our camp I WILL stop using magic. No exceptions. If you choose to ignore this and carry on pulling without moving camp then I will choose to ignore the party's plea for healing magic. If I cast just one spell I will die within seconds and you will have a p-ed off elemental coming after the party so it's your call.

5) Be nice to the mages. I mentioned this before but I'm mentioning it twice because it's important. Without mages to support you you WILL die. Mages have a better view of the battlefield and if you ignore them you WILL die. If you don't let them rest to regain MP you WILL die. If you don't hold hate properly the mages will die and there will be no healers so you WILL die AND you will have an angry party. If you act like a jerk to the White Mage you may find your health bar dropping into the red fairly often. If you are a jerk to the Black Mage then you will find a sudden lack of nukes and MB's. If you are a jerk to the RDM you may find yourself being left out of the haste cycle. Honestly, be polite to us, don't demand instant heals, don't moan if you are missed in a Haste or Regen Cycle and don't complain if nukes stop for a moment. A "please" and "thank you" will also make your support mages very happy. Look at it this way: Do you want the person who keep everyone alive to like you and want to party again with you or do you want the person who keeps everyone alive to be angry and upset with you? mages are always needed in a party and if one party doesn't appreciate them then you will find that they will be swiftly moving on to a party that does appreciate their help.

6) 90% of all party wipes are caused by the idiocy of the front line jobs, not because the White Mage sucks.

Gentoo

03-15-2008, 12:36 PM

Having recently flopped over to doing melee jobs [after avoiding them like the plague], and having [previously] spent a bit of time playing WHM, BLM, and RDM, I need to run counter to a few of your rules.

11) Manafont = death. If I have no MP I will rest I won't use manafont and spam nukes. Manafont is for soloing and curebombing lazy PLDs, not drawing more hate than the tank's provoke spells.

Manafont can pull your party out bad situation, and you should be willing to use it. I distinctly remember two occasions where my use of Manafont ended up helping the [remaining] party members survive.

The first was a Paladin using Invincible which allowed me to use Manafont to nuke a stubborn Pugil to death.

The second was a combination of a Warrior using Mighty Strikes and a Monk using Hundred Fists in combination with my using Manafont against a skeleton in Qufim Island. I still managed to pull hate, but it between the WAR and MNK, I didn't keep it for long, and I did enough damage that we finished the fight alive.

As a BLM it is almost impossible to get into a party due to the unpopularity of them. I can be waiting from an hour to six hours before I even get a /tell for a party. Expect me to be annoyed if I am a rep and you disband after less than an hour or exp time

At the dunes level? Really? On my server they're snapped up incredibly quickly. If only more would seek.

6) 90% of all party wipes are caused by the idiocy of the front line jobs, not because the White Mage sucks.

I would have to say that percentage is a bit high --- by about 40%.

Even when I was a beginning WHM (pre CoP), I quickly realized that party wipes could be caused by just about any job, and that party wipes didn't really favor front or back line jobs. I see an equal amounts of backline -to- frontline suckage.

White Mages that insist on curing DD'ers that aren't even in yellow HP end up screwing up enmity and using MP that might be needed later in the fight to save the tank. WHMs that show up to Dunes parties without applicable Bar<element>ra or won't use it end up spending extra MP to patch party members. Black Mages that chain-nuke from the moment the monster is range until out of MP (or KO'ed).

Those scenarios seem to happen just as often as the puller that brings back a Goblin train (and never tells the party that something went amiss), pulls in that Incredibly Tough + High Evasion + High Defense monster when the healer is out of/low on MP, or the tank and backup tank forget to use Provoke.

My only rules for Dunes level parties are:
1) It's the Dunes, expect a wipe. Even if everyone is a competent veteran player, bad luck happens.
2a) Communicate, don't rant. I still find brand-spankin'-new-to-the-game players as well as veteran players that haven't figured out that a Dunes party doesn't operate like a Merit party. You can't assume everyone knows their role in the party, so take the time to spell it out.
2b) Don't be insulted if you have <n> level 75 jobs, are rank 10, and the leader tells you, the sole Warrior in the group, should to provoke right away. They're just communicating so that everyone knows what's going to happen.
3) If you can't deal with the previous rules, then disband and solo.

Durahansolo

03-20-2008, 01:58 PM

Nice topic, I was thinking of a few i've encountered while on my journey to 75WAR lol:

1.)If you want me to /NIN and dual tank with another WAR, let me know before the invite. 9 times out of 10 i did a /sea all lvl A-B before you did and noticed there were no PLDs or NINs.

2.) If you have a job that has AOE spells and we are in an area were multiple mobs spawn, please do not cast them. I had a party once in Yhoator Jungle where the JP BLU/NIN thought it would be fun to cast {Bomb Toss} after the DNC/NIN said every time the BLU did it {Bomb Toss} = {Danger} we fought in there. Unfortunately the BLU's next Bomb Toss hit a lizzy, and the lizzy killed him, the party would've wiped if the BRD had not slept the lizzy while we killed the goblin.

3.) If I have out Rune Chopper and you are RDM and you Refresh and Haste me so I can Warrior Zerk, I will love you :D. (I know lol refresh on the WAR) :)

4.) If you are a DD job (Mainly DRK/NIN (sometimes /WAR) or DRG/SAM or WAR/SAM) and we have a NIN tank sometimes even PLD tanks, PLEASE!!!Do not do your WS at the start of the battle, if you want to die, disband yourself from the pt and do it by yourself so we wont have to save you ^_^.

5.) If I am the tank in the dunes (or anywhere on any job that I can provoke) and i yell "MAGES RUN!!!!" that means to run to the zone, I'll die defending the pt.

LilithAngel

03-20-2008, 02:36 PM

5.) If I am the tank in the dunes or any job that can sub WAR for provoke and i yell "MAGES RUN!!!!" that means to run to the zone, I'll die defending the pt.

Unfortunately, whatever you wish to happen is null and void when the bolded, italicized, and enlarged part is mentioned. That place drains your intelligence, and even those of us that know better sometimes feel its effects (if only by proxy of being in the same party).

Sad, but true. :(

Murphie

03-20-2008, 02:39 PM

Heck, one time I was in a zone adjacent to the dunes, and I found myself breathing through my mouth.

Telera

03-20-2008, 03:09 PM

Heck, one time I was in a zone adjacent to the dunes, and I found myself breathing through my mouth.

...thank you for making my day.

I've been pissed all day about random shit.

mostly stupid fucking tool raid leaders in the Ettenmoors booting me with no explanation and lacking the balls God gave them to tell me why... I'll take constructive criticism. Or even a 'you totally suck' but I can't take it if you won't say it because you're too candy-assed.

My rules for exp (back when they mattered):

If I am tank and I say zone, move your ass. (similar to what was mentioned earlier) I am more than willing to die to save your exp, but if you don't run and I die and then it eats you next, no ones fault but your own.

I am willing and able to main heal as summoner. I am not, however, going to stay if the minute I toss out a single Cure 3 the White Mage starts casting only Dia and Banish. White Mage should be healing. I will help with the slack or if things get hairy. And/or when they need to rest. Me being there is not your 'OH GOODIE I GET TO LVL DIVINE' ticket.

Oh, and any kind of pricks who are constantly trying to 'teach' everyone in the party as if we are all newbs, yeah, that doesn't fly so well with me either. Had a sam in Yhoat once talking down to all of us like we were grade schoolers and fresh out of the Dunes newbs. When all but one of us had at least one job at 60+.