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MrMageo
01-25-2008, 12:08 AM
This is a semi-guide on the effects of days weather and stars on yourself, and your actions. As well as the effect on Stats, Weapons, and Mobs. I will not be telling you specifically how to work this into your favor, it will be more of a loose based idea. Reason being it will take extensive study and test to figure out eeryones situations.

The main elements of Fire, Ice, Wind, Earth, Thunder, and Water are the main focus of the following tests. (Light and Dark not being part of the Circle are unto their own and i have yet to test the properties of them.) Esentially for every element there is a star and for every star there is a day of the week.
As you know the elements make a circle, for those who do not it is as follows:

Fire>Ice>Wind>Earth>Thunder>Water>Fire (etc)

Each element contains a statistical value in your charecters stats. Each Stat effects a charecters spell,combat skills. they are:

Fire = Str = Attack
Ice = Int = Black Magic Atk, Black Magic Spell Accuracy (all black magic)
Wind = Agi = Evaison, natural job delay
Earth = Vit = Defense
Thunder = Dex = Accuracy
Water = Mnd = Magic Def, White Magic Spell accuracy (all white magic spells)

*Note*
This information is confirmed by the stats on elemental staves, and the debuffs on stats caused by Elemntal Enfeebles

Effects on Magic

Days and Weather affects magic as most people know. You can seem to do more damage on firesday with fire, as opposed to ice on that day. Water damages for more in water effect areas than fire. However most people over look the fact there are stars as well which also affect the spells you cast.

ex.
PC is facing the Wind star and decidesto cast Aero on <t>, Aero has a greater chance of landing because PC is being affected by the star allingment.

ex.2
PC is facing ice star and casts aero on <t>, aero is partially resisted due to ice's dominance in the circle.

The weather, days, and stars also effect eneebling magic (exception Dia Bio)

ex.
PC faces stone star and casts slow n <t>, slow has increased acc due to the star alingment and will land harder and proc more

ex.2
PC faces fire star and cast paralye, the spell may or may not land but will proc less and last shorter durations.

*NOTE*
Spell alingment can be stacked for greater ACC.
ex.
PC is in Ice element, on Iceday, facing the Ice star, the chances of resist from ice spells is greatly diminished, and will allow for a higher proc rate on enfeebles.

Weapons

Weapons all share an element, and can be noticed by their place in the renkei.
Also a way to tell the elemental properties of some weapons is by their bonuses, and traits. From my testing on RDM i can only confirm the following

Sword = fire based (most swords add str or atk a trait of fire)
Dagger= wind (most daggers off low delay or agi+ traits of wind)

also note the aboves majority WS's and Skillchain positions

SWD = Red Lotus Blade/Burning Blade - mainly fire based SC
DGR = Gust Slash/Cyclone - mainly Wind based SC

As for a direct effect from weather stars and days, it was tough to tell but their is some evidence i came across.

While attacking with a Sword on firesday facing fire star, i saw a light increase to my acc, missing less than i would without the elemental bonuses.
The same was evident with dagger how ever facing the wind star. Again by doing opposites element wise you can see a slight decrease in your weapons acc.

Other weapons i assume are similar in effect
H2H - lightning (assumed due to +DEX and + ACC on many)

Stats

The effect on stats from the weather wasa trickey think to see, until i realised you dont get boost from weather statistically, yet you do get decreases. In weather that does not favor a particular Stat for example
Fire > INT, you will notice a slight reist to your INT based abilities on in fire weather. Consiquently days and stars seem to have no direct impact on the stats them selves, only the actions taken.

However it is possible to play to the weather involving stats and to understand this one must look to jobs certain traits and base stats. You see even the jobs them selves are aligned based on the elements. I have only done the basis of the original 6 jobs, however there are easy ways to find out what they are for the others.

WAR - FIRE
BLM - ICE
WHM - WATER
MNK - EARTH
THF - WIND

RDM i will talk about seperatly, the various stats that RDM posses are so similar that no clear elemetal is the victor. It leads me to beleive that RDM was designed to share its versatility in the elements as it does in its job class. Just look at the ranks of RDM magic and Combat skills, usually 2 prodominit ones that are generally opposites. For example enfeebling, enhancing mirror oe another at A+, A- Elemental and healing are also mirrord as are DRK-Divine. The sheer, versatility of rdm allows it to fill any roll in any party just changing its particular element based on gear.

Gear

Gear works in a few ways, it offer you a bonus +Element. Most people figure that this is just a resistance to that element. While this holds true it is also and enhancement. For example you happen to be a MNK whose base is earth elemental. You are fighting in a wind based area, you will notice you begin to take more damage, (due to earth being VIT stat), the elemtnatl gear you have one will increase the rate of the negative because it is making you have a highe stone element. Now you are the same monk in thunder element you seem to take less damage as your stronger Earth ver power lightning.

In addition to direct gear bonuses, your MH also effects the bonus from your gear, if your MH is aglow with earth you will take less damage for the more earth you have on. Generally speaking earth plays host to high def equipment and receives a "phantom" effect from high earth elemental MHE and weak weather.

As for Earth weather you will be neutral.

MOBS

The effect of the elements on mobs is the same as you or I, all mobs have a weakness and a strength. Now this is most complicated section IMO and i will do my best to describe.

First off you need to understand all he effects on the mob that are possible.
1. the weather affects the mobs natural statistacl element
2. your gear affects how the mob can harm you
3. your weapon affects how you harm the mob
4. the star alingment of yourself affects mobs spell ability
5. the mobs alingment to the stars affects your ability of spells
6. te days of the week affect the mobs spell/attack strength
7. the days of the weak affect your spell/attack strength
8. your MH enhancement effects your superior element to the mob
9. your element vs the mobs element.

Ok so digest that.

Here is an exapmle. PC attacks a tunnel worm.
The PC is a THF, equipped with daggers, evade gear that is giving a boost to wind element. The weather is earthy, on thunder day and the thf knows his star alingment. Now the worm is earth type which means the following, the THF has a large advantage over the worm first of he is a THF(wind) his natural stats resist earth type mobs, 2. he using daggers (WIND) which will preform better against a earth mob. 3. he is wearing +WIND gear which provides him an advantage to earth mobs, 4. the weather is earth, seeing as mobs is earth it gains no bous to this, the thf however is strong in wind which is > earth and recieves a bonus from the weather. 5. The day of the weak has no effect on the thf seing as wind is neutral to lightning,6. however the mob gains a bonus to resistance of lightning seeing as it is strong to it. 7. the theif lines to the worm so it is facing its wind star and gains an effective boost to accuracy of dagger (wind) and evaison from agi (wind). These specific conditions allow for the theif to have a good chance of defeating the monster by having the upper hand element wise.

In closing

Remeber the key points of elemental instances stars, weather, days

Stars- effect base stats such as agility, and weapon accuracy, magic acc.
Weather- effcts the resistances, of spells weaponskills, damage
Days- effect the strength of attacks/spells

also note MHE (mog house enhancement) provides a boost to all elemental instances if it matches. Also note MHE usually gives you bonuses if its at a certain level, check around for a MHE guide to receive full effects.
Gear, weapons, spells if all same aelement as MHE you will receive a slight bonus to the effect on them by the elemental instances

I hope this guide will help you in terms of understanding the concept of gear,stat,spell,weapons as pertaining to elemental instances.

The star map is located in windurst observatory if you wish to find your stars location.

Thanks for reading this and good luck in implementing this into the game

Mageoholic

* Also please do not post this elsewhere on this site or anyother site without my persmission i went through alot of work to find this stuff out and chose to share it explicitly with you on garuda*

Thank You

Armando
01-25-2008, 01:25 AM
Wind = Agi = Evaison(sic), natural job delayIf by this you mean the delay between attack rounds, this is horribly wrong.

Effects on magic: The direction/star theory has never been proven. Don't present it as fact.

Weapons: All wrong. Weapons have nothing to do with the elements.

Stats: All wrong.

Mobs: All wrong.

In closing, sorry to break it to you but this guide is trash.

All anyone needs to know is that when using an elemental spell or WS on the day or weather of the same element, there's a chance of getting a 10% boost to the damage and an unknown boost to the accuracy of the spell/WS for each day/weather icon in your favor. Casting on the opposing day has the opposite effect.

Mog
01-25-2008, 05:11 AM
Fire = Str = Attack
Ice = Int = Black Magic Atk, Black Magic Spell Accuracy (all black magic)
Wind = Agi = Evaison, natural job delay
Earth = Vit = Defense
Thunder = Dex = Accuracy
Water = Mnd = Magic Def, White Magic Spell accuracy (all white magic spells)


So because my Aquilo's Staff has elemental skill attached to it, all of my ice spells will be more accurate than the other elements?

Right.....

Before you post nonsense, do a little research first. The stats on the elemental Staves have NOTHING to do with the actual elements. It's more of a background on what each element represents, not what they actually do.

Murphie
01-25-2008, 07:05 AM
On top of everything else that is wrong with it, why is this guide in the Garuda forum? Is it the only server concerned with terrible guides?

MrMageo
01-25-2008, 07:12 AM
DO a little research first ? ive spent 25+ hours doing research on this. I have tested this on lvl 75 charecters, mobs in most zones. The alingment of weather stars and days used properly has a direct affect on your actions in the party. FACT. However small these boost allow you to receive 2-3 more attacks per fight, allow para to activate 2-3 more times. On the opposite side, you can lose 2-3 attacks and have para activate 2-3 times less.

AGI = WIND, FACT
Frost lowers a <t>'s AGI

AGI lowers natural delay

perhaps you just assume because the delay over your weapons is tied to this. Wrong. A weapon sets your delay at a specific number (not natural). The only delay which is tied to this directly is H2H, where istead of weapon delay of XXX, it adds +XX to delay. This is why a taru mnk/pup/dnc/war etc. using H2H will attack more often then a galka. FACT> since taru have highest AGI in game they will attack more than races that are poor in this. Consiquently the galka have high STR to counter this in order to keep a racial balance. Less attacks for more damage against a race with higher AGI but low STR.FACT.

ICE staff, would be more accurate in similar circumstances to the others. Try casting Ice on a lvl 75 on ice day, then check compared to casting on fireday, you will have more resists on firesday, thusly doing less damage. Now test casting Fire on firesday then watersday, however you will notice that ice will have less resists than fire. Why? because the 10+ to elemental equates to 3-5+ to MAC (depending on your build of INT,MAC).

On another note
It's one of my favorite things reading/posting on this site because of the amount of flamers reside here. Regardless of wether you think it works or not is your issue, but until you have 25+ hours of knowledge surrounding this OP perhaps you should listen first and beak off later. I know it is inevitable for most of you to be unable to wrap your minds around complicated things. Personally it dosent matter to me wether anyone uses this, i use it and it works wonders for me. Mostly it seems NA players just do not wish to go above and beyond to do jobs slightly better. Where its not my place to judge others, i will say this, try it, prove me wrong. Just because you can come here and tell me im wrong, wrong, wrong means jack shit. This OP is designed for players to receive a base knowledge pertaining to elemental effects on them. If you do not wish to know more about this highly undocumented topic then dont read it. Please dont flood my topic about things you know nothing about, go out and spend 25 hours testing this in various situations and elements like i did. Chances are if you follow my guide you will increase your overall productivity in a party by 1-3%, so go do your tests come back and then we can talk until then enjoy the ride, because i care not about you saying im wrong when ive done the tests to prove i am right.

Ellipses
01-25-2008, 07:13 AM
Garuda is, like, the wind avatar. And evasion is totally wind. So the OP is hoping to avoid all the replies like this he's going to get anyway.

I'd be perfectly happy to buy into the star direction stuff if someone would ever actually parse it and provide reliable data. But every time someone starts spouting off about it, the best they've got is they "noticed" better weaponskills/spell resists/cat spleens, or "(I can make convoluted arguments that frame it so that) It makes sense so it must be true."

Mog
01-25-2008, 07:23 AM
DO a little research first ? ive spent 25+ hours doing research on this. I have tested this on lvl 75 charecters, mobs in most zones. The alingment of weather stars and days used properly has a direct affect on your actions in the party. FACT. However small these boost allow you to receive 2-3 more attacks per fight, allow para to activate 2-3 more times. On the opposite side, you can lose 2-3 attacks and have para activate 2-3 times less.


So if it's tuesday the 13th, does that mean I'll do more damage on mobs? :rolleyes:


ICE staff, would be more accurate in similar circumstances to the others. Try casting Ice on a lvl 75 on ice day, then check compared to casting on fireday, you will have more resists on firesday, thusly doing less damage. Now test casting Fire on firesday then watersday, however you will notice that ice will have less resists than fire. Why? because the 10+ to elemental equates to 3-5+ to MAC (depending on your build of INT,MAC).


In case you didn't know, this is common knowledge. If I cast thunder on Thundersday, it will add more potency to my spell. If I cast thunder on earthsday, the reverse happens.....

It's also common knowledge that Elemental Magic Skill = less resists. Whether it is related to Magic Accuracy, we really don't know. This is old news.


On another note
It's one of my favorite things reading/posting on this site because of the amount of flamers reside here. Regardless of wether you think it works or not is your issue, but until you have 25+ hours of knowledge surrounding this OP perhaps you should listen first and beak off later. I know it is inevitable for most of you to be unable to wrap your minds around complicated things. Personally it dosent matter to me wether anyone uses this, i use it and it works wonders for me. Mostly it seems NA players just do not wish to go above and beyond to do jobs slightly better. Where its not my place to judge others, i will say this, try it, prove me wrong. Just because you can come here and tell me im wrong, wrong, wrong means jack shit. This OP is designed for players to receive a base knowledge pertaining to elemental effects on them. If you do not wish to know more about this highly undocumented topic then dont read it. Please dont flood my topic about things you know nothing about, go out and spend 25 hours testing this in various situations and elements like i did. Chances are if you follow my guide you will increase your overall productivity in a party by 1-3%, so go do your tests come back and then we can talk until then enjoy the ride, because i care not about you saying im wrong when ive done the tests to prove i am right.

Oh brother, wall o' text. Ever hear the saying "Garbage in, garbage out." ?

Here's a little tidbit of advice for you before you start anymore threads. If you want people to believe new claim that you have, support it with evidence. People aren't going to believe you, nor follow what you say if you create a new unsupported theory with no evidence to back it up.

Saying that you spend 25+ hours and came up with a bunch of random facts does little to sway me, and the rest of this community. I also highly doubt you did this on multiple 75 jobs.

Ellipses
01-25-2008, 07:28 AM
25+ hours
...would be barely enough time to test a single factor of this omnibus collection of theories you're trying to espouse.
This is why a taru mnk/pup/dnc/war etc. using H2H will attack more often then a galka.
Which is utter nonsense.

Feba
01-25-2008, 07:33 AM
MrMaego, I'd advise you to go to GameFAQs, or maybe try your luck at Alla or KI. People here simply have too much intelligence to listen to you.

Ameroth
01-25-2008, 07:33 AM
DO a little research first ? ive spent 25+ hours doing research on this.

Gasp! 25 hours you say? That's so much time that I'm totally inclined to believe all of your far fetched statements without any doubt what-so-ever. I mean, you said it yourself, it's a "highly undocumented topic" so fellow players and other experimenters should instantly drop all skepticism because that's how good science works? Right?




----

Also, insulting people because they don't agree with your every word in an argument such as this shows very little character.

Armando
01-25-2008, 07:39 AM
Fun fact: It doesn't matter how much time and effort you put into testing something, if you don't do it empirically.

Moreover, it doesn't matter if you test something using the Scientific Method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method), you still don't have any credibility until you show your testing.

That aside, this game has been out for about five years now and most of its basic mechanics have been figured out and re-examined over and over again. You were wrong about just about everything, including what you call "natural delay." (See: Martial Arts (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Martial_Arts)) And even if you had somehow hit the nail on the head and "discovered" the true effects of day and weather, you'd still have wasted your time because that information is a quick search away from anyone's reach at FFXIclopedia.

To add insult to injury, guides go in the job-specific boards or the General FFXI Discussion board depending on, of course, whether it's something job-specific or general. There's absolutely no reason to post a guide in a server board.

MrMageo
01-25-2008, 07:41 AM
Ok then i will go back out and parse all this crap. By testing on multiple 75 jobs, i meant testing it on them Physically. Like beating them in PvP not testing it on the Job itself.

The only notes i have are personal parse's in the form of teddy charts, since i havent downloaded a parse yet cuz i dont know which is a good one. I could copy them to a text doc. However they would probably be looked down on as made up, so i will get a parse and do this again. If anyone has suggestion of decent parse im all ears.

Sabaron
01-25-2008, 08:02 AM
In order to prove even a single fragment of your proposal you will have to give a valid experiment and then post data. You call everyone who doesn't agree with you a "flamer" simply because they raise issues with your information. You have provided no information--only conjecture. Let's look at one piece and I'll give you an example of how to test it.

Days and Weather affects magic as most people know. You can seem to do more damage on firesday with fire, as opposed to ice on that day. Water damages for more in water effect areas than fire. However most people over look the fact there are stars as well which also affect the spells you cast.

This one came up over at alla circa 2005 as an extension to the "Directional Synthesis" idea, find it here (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10;mid=111150933078344768)

See what he did? He tested a theory. How did you test your stars hypothesis? How many times did you cast your spell? How did you ensure that other variables (e.g. day/weather) were accounted for in your data? How large is your statistical sample (hint it has to encompass at least 100 tests)?

Oh, and before you go citing this experiment as justification, you have to look down through the responses to find where it is shown that his data is corrupt. His experiment was at least 10x better than yours and was still faulty. That doesn't mean that you can't prove this information--it just means you'll need more than conjecture to do so at DiV.

Coinspinner
01-25-2008, 09:25 AM
FACT> since taru have highest AGI in game

Wrong. In regards to H2H delay, show some proof if you want to be believed.

ICE staff, would be more accurate in similar circumstances to the others. Try casting Ice on a lvl 75 on ice day, then check compared to casting on fireday, you will have more resists on firesday, thusly doing less damage. Now test casting Fire on firesday then watersday, however you will notice that ice will have less resists than fire. Why? because the 10+ to elemental equates to 3-5+ to MAC (depending on your build of INT,MAC).

For elemental magic, ok. Blizzard, Freeze, Frost, Cryohelix with an ice staff would be more accurate than Stone, Quake, Rasp, and Geohelix with an earth staff. For other magics, no. Day affecting spell potency is well known.

Edit: hehe, I'm slow ><;

DakAttack
01-25-2008, 09:32 AM
MrMageo is the Gallileo of our time.

Sadly, Armando and Lmnop get first dibs on telling me what to believe because they have numbers to prove it.

nanatsu
01-25-2008, 10:16 AM
I have a 75 mithra mnk. Just like everyone else has been saying, I know for a fact that I DON'T attack faster than any Galka mnk I've partied with, if we're both using destroyers and wearing the same amount of haste gear. If that were true, then I could gain TP at a faster rate than the other Galka mnks I've associated with, and that just doesn't happen. I've partied with many and have been out tped many times by a galka wearing comparable gear.

I know these things because I've had my mnk for a couple of years now. And I've partied with just about every single race/mnk combination you can think of. I've never noticed any mnk attacking faster than another unless they had haste/haste gear on, had slow on, or had some ridiculous delay weapon like Spartan Cesti.

It's also easy to see that taru have a disadvantage as mnk when it comes to actual damage. If it were true that taru's attack speed make up for their lack in strength, then their DoT would make up for their lack of damage. It doesn't. Taru are simply outdamaged by other races as MNK due to the lack of strength. Whether it's a very slight, dismissable margin or more noticeable is up for debate. A lot can be made up for with gear or food. But boosting my agi through food has never made me attack faster as mnk, neither has losing agi through any means made me attack any slower.

Based on that alone I know you have no idea what you're testing, or even what you're doing. AGI and all other stats have already been thoroughly researched and tested with way more reliable and productive methods than you've used. And they have been tested over and over and over again.

Please rethink your methods and thoroughly test things before posting things like this. This is how newer players get confused and misinformation spreads.

Raydeus
01-25-2008, 01:53 PM
Yeah, even though directional casting seems interesting; without having parser data to back it up it just ends up in the realm of guesstimates that are usually wrong.

You can swear you noticed something (like my vendetta against Mandies increasing their eva when they are close to dying) but that means nothing without the proper data. :wasted:

IfritnoItazura
01-25-2008, 02:24 PM
AGI lowers natural delay
Show me how you tested this.

If the method is scientific, people here can help point out the flaws. If it's bunch of garbage and wishful thinking, I'll join everyone in yelling at you to stop writing fiction and passing it off as facts.