So I'm confused...

[Reichter]

I've heard conflicting stories about the DRG class.

1) They're awesome DoT, some of the better classes.

2) They do horrible damage.

Is number 2 being said because DRGs don't have big number WS like DRK/WAR/etc, but do a lot of smaller numbers more frequently? I'm worried because, in the past, I've had the habit of finding the worse melee class in the game and being too stubborn to admit it...

I swear I won't ask too many questions :|

[Callisto]

The truth:

DRG is a very versatile, capable job that is limited at lower levels due to a poor selection of available gear and decent weaponskills. At 75 it's a very nice DD, with the right gear/subjob setup an amazing solo job, and it always has extra supplemental damage in the form of its wyvern. It has a very nice combination of Job Traits and Abilities as well.

There has, however, been an epidemic in the past of really, really terrible players choosing DRG as their main job, which kind of gave it an undeserved stigma(from what I've heard, this runs true across all servers, not just Ramuh).

I've never known someone who has taken DRG to 75 and not loved the job, if you think it looks interesting go for it, as long as you equip it properly and learn what you're doing your damage numbers will be fine.

[Skoal]

The worst melee class in the game is black mage. Don't use them for melee.

The whole "drg do horrible damage" is a few years old. Most people (the ones who aren't idiots) have seen a drg in action and know better. I am not saying we are the best, but by no means horrible. Play a few melee classes and see which one fits your style. One job will do more damage than the others in certain situations.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I've heard conflicting stories about the DRG class.

1) They're awesome DoT, some of the better classes.

2) They do horrible damage.

Either can be true. A lot of DRGs just think thier AF if the bee's knees and play the job with the armor on all the damn time, making the perform poorly in general. A properly geared DRG will do well alongside other DDs, so the question is whether you choose to wear armor as a show piece or for the stats and know how to use that armor and when.

[Skoal]

The truth:

DRG is a very versatile, capable job that is limited at lower levels due to a poor selection of available gear and decent weaponskills. At 75 it's a very nice DD, with the right gear/subjob setup an amazing solo job, and it always has extra supplemental damage in the form of it's wyverns. It has a very nice combination of Job Traits and Abilities as well.

There has, however, been an epidemic in the past of really, really terrible players choosing DRG as their main job, which kind of gave it an undeserved stigma(from what I've heard, this runs true across all servers, not just Ramuh).

The myth about poor gear and weaponskills still lives I see. Double Thrust does awesome damage and is better than most ws at low levels. Also we have many pieces of armor that other melee classes can wear up until Sam, War, Drk, etc wear Hauby.

[Callisto]

Double Thrust is great, I meant more the fact that you don't get a decent one between Double and Penta. At lower to mid levels though, DRG does hurt for STR/Atk/Acc gear that other DD classes get access to(outside of SH). I still say DRG not being able to were Hauberk class armor while NIN can is a crime.

Edit: Fixed.

P.S.: Strikethrough!

[Reichter]

A lot of DRGs just think thier AF if the bee's knees and play the job with the armor on all the damn time, making the perform poorly in general.

Now this intrigues me...I was under the impressions that AF armor was, in fact, the bee's knees (for all classes) and you should equip different slots with different items depending on the situation...

God I hate having to learn new games, lol.

[Sabaron]

Now this intrigues me...I was under the impressions that AF armor was, in fact, the bee's knees (for all classes) and you should equip different slots with different items depending on the situation...

God I hate having to learn new games, lol.

AF Armor is, in general, rather unimpressive in comparison to higher level stuff. You have to remember that you finish the whole set by 60, so there has to be something to upgrade to after that. Many AF pieces depending on job retain a certain usefulness--especially those pieces with skill bonuses and unusual bonuses or effects that no other items have, but you will probably not retain a lot of it. As a RDM, I've placed my gloves and boots in storage. As far as AF goes, RDM has a fairly good set. SAMs and WARs use very little if any of their AF.

[Skoal]

Double Thrust is great, I meant more the fact that you don't get a decent one between Double and Penta. At lower to mid levels though, DRG does hurt for STR/Atk/Acc gear that other DD classes get access to(outside of SH). I still say DRG not being able to were Hauberk class armor while NIN can is a crime.

Please let me know what drg can't wear at low to mid levels that war, drk, sam, mnk can wear. I know that sam and mnk have different styles of armor. At 30 drg get mercenary captains gear that war and drk cant wear. That has str and dex on it.

Also please name the weapons skills between the first one you learn and the "ideal" weapon skills that are used most.

Here's an example of what I mean.

Drg learns Double Thrust at 10 then Penta at 49. Everything in between sucks. Thf learns Viper Bite in the 30's and probably uses that until Dancing Edge.

[Reichter]

AF Armor is, in general, rather unimpressive in comparison to higher level stuff. You have to remember that you finish the whole set by 60, so there has to be something to upgrade to after that. Many AF pieces depending on job retain a certain usefulness--especially those pieces with skill bonuses and unusual bonuses or effects that no other items have, but you will probably not retain a lot of it. As a RDM, I've placed my gloves and boots in storage. As far as AF goes, RDM has a fairly good set. SAMs and WARs use very little if any of their AF.

Oh I figured the level 60 stuff would be replaced eventually. No doubt about that.

But, isn't there an AF2 set or something? Not that I have any delussions of getting that any time soon or anything...I just like to know all I can before jumping into anything.

[Skoal]

Af2 = Relic armor. Obtained from Dynamis runs. It has its uses but its mostly not worn 100% of the time.

[eticket109]

It has nothing to do with the job, it has everything to do with the player.

While gear isn't everything, I see DRGs all the time that walk around in gear that is so horribly gimped that it can't do anything but hinder them.

DRG damage is more gradual than the spike damage a lot of DDs generate. I do well with Penta Thrust but it can't touch some of the weaponskills that DRKs, SAMs and GA WARs can put out. Overall though the damage usually evens out pretty well, especially when you take wyverns into account. Callisto's first paragraph summed it up pretty well. DRG is a capable DD with more versatility then any of the more dedicated DD's.

edit: also, the original AF armor can be upgraded into some very solid level 74 pieces that are among some of the better gear we get.

[Sabaron]

Oh I figured the level 60 stuff would be replaced eventually. No doubt about that.

But, isn't there an AF2 set or something? Not that I have any delussions of getting that any time soon or anything...I just like to know all I can before jumping into anything.

There are 4 "versions" of AF armor available:


Your original AF.
AF+1 obtained from Limbus upgrades of your AF.
AF2 (Relic) obtained from Dynamis.
AF2+1 obtained from Dreamland Dynamis ugrades to your AF2.For Dragoon:

Drachen Armor (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Drachen_Armor_Set)
Drachen Armor +1 (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Drachen_Armor_Plus_1_Set)
Wyrm Armor (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Wyrm_Armor_Set)
Wyrm Armor +1 (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Wyrm_Armor_Plus_1_Set)

A lot of your gear will be used as "swap-ins". Gear swapping mid-battle is very powerful in FFXI. Another popular set for high level DRGs that's not terribly hard to obtain is the Barone Corazza Set (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Barone_Corazza_Set). Of course there are a lot of little nuances and special pieces like Assault Jerkin, Optical Hat, Wahlara Turban, etc. but an actual DRG would be better at running through gear sets for DRGs.

[Callisto]

Please let me know what drg can't wear at low to mid levels that war, drk, sam, mnk can wear. I know that sam and mnk have different styles of armor. At 30 drg get mercenary captains gear that war and drk cant wear. That has str and dex on it.

Also please name the weapons skills between the first one you learn and the "ideal" weapon skills that are used most.

Here's an example of what I mean.

Drg learns Double Thrust at 10 then Penta at 49. Everything in between sucks. Thf learns Viper Bite in the 30's and probably uses that until Dancing Edge.

I looked stuff up, and you're right lol, I rescind the gear/WS' comment, I thought that Jinpu came much earlier for SAM, but it looks like most DDs get their money WS's around 150. Then it really just comes down to Haubergeon, which is still lame. DRG not being able to wear it is stupid to me, and really there isn't something comparable until 70+, and those pieces aren't exactly easy to get your first time through.

[Skoal]

I looked stuff up, and you're right lol, I rescind the gear/WS' comment, I thought that Jinpu came much earlier for SAM, but it looks like most DDs get their money WS's around 150. Then it really just comes down to Haubergeon, which is still lame. DRG not being able to wear it is stupid to me, and really there isn't something comparable until 70+, and those pieces aren't exactly easy to get your first time through.

The more you know! /rainbow

Although we can't wear Hauby, by that time we are fighting birds. We can make up for that loss of that one piece with the piercing bonus.

[Lunaryn]

The worst melee class in the game is black mage. Don't use them for melee.
I don't know, I think Scholar may have Black Mage beat on this due to the lack of a B-rank weapon. They do get E Parry in exchange, but...

(Getting scholar past the early levels is truly painful... >_< )

[Tsrwedge]

I don't know, I think Scholar may have Black Mage beat on this due to the lack of a B-rank weapon. They do get E Parry in exchange, but...

(Getting scholar past the early levels is truly painful... >_< )
\derail
Yup, there's nothing more painful than seeing a Mandragora use Photosynthesis and knowing you can't do more damage than the regen effect is giving back...
\derail

[Skoal]

Whoops forgot about Scholar.

[Vyuru]

The more you know! /rainbow

Although we can't wear Hauby, by that time we are fighting birds. We can make up for that loss of that one piece with the piercing bonus.


I'm still going to complain that I can't wear a Hauby though >.>

And the fact that if we are restricted to light armors why the heck can't we wear some of the sam/mnk/nin line of gear.

/fume

[Reichter]

Wow, I'm not even a DRG yet and even I feel ripped off about not being able to use that Haubergeon piece...that's a really nice piece...

[Skoal]

Wow, I'm not even a DRG yet and even I feel ripped off about not being able to use that Haubergeon piece...that's a really nice piece...

LOL. Don't worry about it. We get 2 Acc bonus job traits that most jobs don't get. Also we have Jumps. FREAKING JUMPS MAN!!!9

[eticket109]

We do at least get the Askar Korazin and I personally like Drachen Mail +1 a lot too.

[Callisto]

AF+1 gloves are sexy too. >.>

DRG gear at 75 is so ridiculously far ahead of gear at 69, that's my only beef really.

[NicasinXS]

I did a lot of melee leveling my scholar to 37 for a /sch and found that the wand hits fairly often if your skill is capped. Light arts have an affect on Seraph Strike. If you already have your wand at least to level 100 you should be good to do the same. Its not really wise to bust out the wand for melee during parties, but if someone leaves and you bust out your signal/tactics pearl and spawn your melee npc buddy to keep the party alive while another member is on the way, your team mates wont complain about your swinging your wand around as long as you keep up the casting as well. I tried this class with dagger, pole and wand. Wand seems to be the better weapon to melee with a scholar. Around level 35 to 37 it was a real waste to try melee with scholar at all, would slow the party down. I only did it at that level to get the lazy bard out of the corner and swing his sword. Early level bards have no excuse to just stand there...

I personally think that the people talking about Dragoon is a good melee as long as the gear is right, not just flashy, are right on the money. I love to have a good dragoon around. Dragoons need a lot of acc like Dark Knights for leveling up. It’s rare that Dragoon players already have a pole arm class leveled up with merits on that weapon. Also, dragoons may have weakish WS they can still open and close decent WS leaving open the option for an old fashion Magic Burst party that can move fairly quick if your casters are into it and the dragoon has enough acc to keep up with their SC partner.

If you have a hard time getting a party with whatever class you desire to level, whether it be dragoon, scholar, black mage, then learn to /sea all level ??-?? And make your own party. You can use that same /sea function to see where players are specific levels are partying to help you decide where to put yourself.

Dragoons with full AF in parties still get laughed at.

[eticket109]

AF+1 gloves are sexy too. >.>

DRG gear at 75 is so ridiculously far ahead of gear at 69, that's my only beef really.

I ws with AF+1 gloves typically since I don't have any Hecatomb pieces. I like the fact they have STR and DEX on them. I also use the AF+1 pants full time until I get Askar or Barbossas Zerehs. The WHP+ is great for breaths and you can't argue with 9 Accuracy. If I ever get Homam pants though, I'll probably swap them out in a Haste build. The AF+1 helm is good for Spirit Link and it's in my macro for Healing Breaths.

My eventual goal is:
Askar head: X
Askar body: X
Relic +1 gloves: O
Askar shorts: X
Homam feet: O

Though if I get Homam pants and Askar or Homam hands, then I would swap in those and grab a Swift belt. As far as weapons, Mez for DD and IRL for solo is the way to go. Then again, I have a 'unique' solo build. lol

[Pteryx]

DRG's bad reputation isn't completely because of bad players, though. Part of it also dates back to the "TP nerf", in which multi-hit weaponskills stopped returning full TP for every hit. One of the polearm skills, Penta Thrust, was hurt badly by this change, and since that was considered one of DRG's selling points at high levels, people concluded that DRG must suck.

Another contributing factor is that back in the day, one of the most popular (and only) merit camps was deep in King Ranperre's Tomb against skeletons. Without a specific blunt polearm, DRG's damage suffered incredibly against these. By the time ToAU with its piercing-weak meripo mobs came out, though, "lolDRG" was already seared into the consensus too strongly to be scrubbed away by mere reality.

Accordingly, DRG has been given some help. Call Wyvern is no longer their two-hour; it's now a main-job-only ability on a 20-minute timer. The wyvern itself was given Subtle Blow, and it's said that it may be given some damage resistance as well in the future. DRG was given a second Accuracy Bonus trait, helping to make up for their inability to wear a Hauby.

What's made the biggest impact on DRG's recovery, however, is the two-handed damage adjustment. The original upgrade was a little too good, so DRGs got a chance to prove themselves again (but still proved weaker than SAMs). The upgrade has been scaled back to a saner level, but it's still enough to have put a significant dent in the "lolDRG" mentality. Maybe once they add that damage resistance so wyverns don't die to the first -aga they're hit by, DRG will be accepted again. -- Pteryx

[IfritnoItazura]

DRG is a very versatile, capable job that is limited at lower levels due to a poor selection of available gear and decent weaponskills.
Well, if it's limited at lower levels, sure isn't in the DD'ing capability.

My DRG is 31, I think? No one out damaged me in party from 10 to 31 (as reported by parser). When I had another DRG in party, it was usually DRG as top DD, then DRG as 2nd top DD. Double Thrust is one of the strongest WS at lower levels, BTW, behind only a proper SA(TA) Fast Blade/Combo from THF.

That was before the two-handed update; Dragoon is even stronger now. You should level up DRG to see for yourself how "limited" it is. :P

[Callisto]

lol Itaz, we already covered my incorrectness, thanks though. :P

[Reichter]

Kind of disheartening...keep hearing from my LS that the class is all but worthless, especially end game :\

[Sabaron]

Kind of disheartening...keep hearing from my LS that the class is all but worthless, especially end game :

If all you do is complain about being a DRG then why be a DRG? Go be a SAM.

What is DRG to you? Is it just a means to produce large numbers? Is that how you determine your worth as a party member?

Did you forget that your wyvern can be used to heal?

Dragoon can Provoke and then High/Super Jump to shed the voke. This is perfect for giving a Ninja a few extra seconds to get his shadows back up after a nasty attack like say... Hex Eye.

Dragoon's wyvern can participate in a magic burst to further increase your output.

Or maybe you're just into the numbers...

Dragoons with good gear whose wyvern retains life can outparse other DD jobs on Damage Over Time, and you can hold up quite well when its dead, too. You will never show Weaponskill numbers that match a Samurai, but your damage over time and the fact that you can sustain it without becoming a target by shedding hate gives you great versatility.

Not only can you deal phenomonal damage, you can do so wearing very light armor. Of course, SE has designed the Dragoon to dress this way, but the amount of Attack (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/advanced-search.php?job=drg&limit=3&affect=Attack&sort_by=level), Accuracy (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/advanced-search.php?job=drg&limit=3&affect=Accuracy&sort_by=level), and/or Haste (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/advanced-search.php?job=drg&limit=3&affect=Haste&sort_by=level) gear you can pile on is really stellar. While it's true you can't use other melees incredible pieces like Hauby, Dragoon gets +22 Accuracy just for being a Dragoon, so you don't necessarily need Hauby--you can wear something with more Attack on it. The only job that gets more natural accuracy than a Dragoon is a Ranger and they don't even use it, and guess what? Only Dark Knight gets more native Attack than you do, +10, though you do have to share with WAR and BLU.

Basic DoT on high-end Dragoon weapons (even the cheap ones) are in the 11.5 range and many of them have cool effects. By contrast, a Samurai's Great Katanas are in the 11 range (half a point lower than comparable spears). The difference, then is that the Samurai compensates by WSing. You compensate with your wyvern.

Don't focus too much on trying to be like another DD job. Dragoon is Dragoon. It's quite a bit different from the other DDs. Learn to position yourself well, stay low on the hate list and keep your pet alive.

[Reichter]

I wasn't complaining...

I'm simply trying to get some info about a Job who interests me a lot...mainly because of it's versatility.

However, I hear conflicting stories, and I just want to get all the facts before I make up my mind. I still have some time before 30, and just want as much of a headstart on what I'm doing as possible.

[IfritnoItazura]

Well, there's no penalty switching jobs; if you don't like a job, change to another.

I consider it a good incentive to try different jobs. ^_^b

[Skoal]

I wasn't complaining...

I'm simply trying to get some info about a Job who interests me a lot...mainly because of it's versatility.

However, I hear conflicting stories, and I just want to get all the facts before I make up my mind. I still have some time before 30, and just want as much of a headstart on what I'm doing as possible.

No offense, but you LS sounds like idiots. Only you can decide if you are going to like a job. Play around with a few DD jobs and see what you like.

[Lmnop]

DRG is good, pretty much at any level. The wyvern's DPS is always forgotten by people who look down at your damage.

You will encounter people who think that DRGs are terribly weak. There are still people who have been playing the game for 4 years and yet think that Dual Wield doubles your damage! More than you'd think! (it doesn't, btw >.> it's a damage boost, true. But it's not going to magically outdo what Berserk can add)

The point is, you're going to have to get used to occasional idiots. But really, unless you play war, sam, nin, rdm, or brd; you're going to get some crap somewhere along the way. Do you really want to play one of those 5? 5 out of 20? Especially when they're not even superior to DRG?! Online communities work in mysterious ways. Any time you feel shorted because of your choice in job, come peruse these boards and poke questions. Someone intelligent will give you a correct answer that will make you feel better.


Oh, one more thing. for comparison:

Warriors get Aggressor. This is the biggest accuracy (self) buff in the game @+25 acc for 3 minutes out of every 5 (60% of the time).
DRGs get Accuracy Bonus II. This amounts to +22 accuracy 100% of the time. This difference ain't so great!

Nuts.

[londrieved]

I've been reading this thread and I'm very happy to see some good support for the Dragoon class, as it's the one with the absolute most appeal to me, jumps and such, even before the wyvern was added. The point is, I'm sticking with the plan of a Elvaan Dragoon though I was considering going another way.

[Kafeen]

DRG is good, pretty much at any level. The wyvern's DPS is always forgotten by people who look down at your damage.

I remember I party on my DRG, probably around 54-56, I was in a party with 2 SAMs. One had some really nice gear, 2 Sniper Rings, Ochi kotes, the other didn't. At the time (before the 2 handed update) I was only using DEX rather than accuracy due to a lack of funds. But even with my set up I out damaged the lesser equiped SAM by an average of a few hunderd a fight. The other SAM on the other hand out damaged me by around 200 per fight. That might make DRG look weaker but then my Wyvern was averaging about 400 damage per fight edging my total damage per fight even above the SAM who had superior gear.

[Evion]

I'd rather have a DRG in my PT for the good looks anyway!

[Celeal]

DRG's pet /emotes are cute :D

[Nataka]

DRG's pet /emotes are cute :D

QFT


Man you guys are making me wanna level dragoon again instead of samurai. XD

[Ellipses]

Also, Dragoons get free ice cream on Tuesdays. Who doesn't want free ice cream? Level DRG!

[SomeMithra]

By the time my DRG was 75 I made (some) Rampage Warriors cry because I out DPSed them in DoT. This was before the 2-handed update which made DRGs (and other 2 handed weapon users (but who cares about them)) stronger too.

On top of that I tanked my own Impulse Drive mob for the second half of its life and trioed it with a PLD and my wyvern...

And I chained Tough-Very Tough mobs solo...

Go level DRG. Their just that awesome.










But then I again I was kinda crazy and ate death a lot learning how to solo well.....

[Yellow Mage]

Their just that awesome.

/ja Chainspell <me>
/ma Dia <t>
/wait 1
/ma Poison <t>
/wait 1
/ma Slow <t>
/wait 1
/ma Silence <t>
/wait 1
/ma Gravity <t>
/wait 1
/ma Fire <t>
/wait 1
/ma Fire <t>
/wait 1
/ma Fire <t>
/wait 1
/ma Enfire <me>
/attack <t>

. . .

What? It's the best I can do at my level. Okay, sure, I have Blizzard, but I'd prefer she'd die in a Fire . . .