Ninja/Dark Knight... 4x the hate 4x the pleasure.

[Sevv]

Ninja/Dark Knight Guide

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/Zer0nine_09_02/Nin_drk.jpg

Section I: Preface

Ninja/Dark Knight is a more advanced tanking setup compared to your normal Ninja/Warrior. Ninja/Dark Knight relies heavily on the support of the tanking party. You will need a Bard as well as a Red Mage for Ninja/Dark Knight to run at full capacity. This guide will basically run down different possible gear sets for all different types of players, this guide is based on players who have obtained Byakko’s Haidate as well as those who have obtained Walahra Turban.


Section II: Top Teir Gear Set

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/4/4b/Walahraturban.jpg
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/a/a0/HarmoniasTorque.jpg
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/a/a1/Eris_Earring_Plus_1.jpgx2
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/6/6b/Arhat%27s_Gi_Plus_1.png
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/9/90/Dusk_Gloves_Plus_1.jpg
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/e/ea/SattvaRing.jpg
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/e/e9/Defendingring.jpg
Back up Rings for Dring:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/6/67/Bomb_Queen_Ring.png
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/f/ff/MermaidsRing.JPG
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/2/22/High_Breath_Mantle.JPG
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/9/91/Trance_Belt.gif
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/4/4e/Byakkoshaidate.jpg
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/3/38/Usukane_Sune-ate.jpg
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/b/b6/Hades_Sainti_Plus_1.jpg


Section III: Substitute Gear Set
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/a/a8/Warwolf_Belt.png
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/8/81/Fuma_Sune-Ate.png
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/b/bc/Earth_Staff.png
Use Normal Qualities on HQ, Especially before Earth Staff

Section IV: The Support
Bard: When it comes down to bard support you can take one or two song sets, personally I like to use Victory March and Mage's Ballad II. You can also take the Double Ballad route.
Red Mage: Simply Haste and Refresh, phalanx II does not hurt but is not needed.


Section V: The Macros
-Ctrl1-
/ma "Utsusemi: Ichi" <me>
-Ctrl2-
/ma "Utsuemi: Ni" <me>
-Ctrl3-
/ja "Last Resort" <me>
-Ctrl4-
/ja "Soul Eater" <me>
-Ctrl5-
/ja "Weapon Bash" <t>

-Alt1-
/ma "Stun" <t>
-Alt2-
/ma "Sleep" <t>
-Alt3-
/ma "Bind" <t>
-Alt4-
/ma "Absorb-Vit" <t>
-Alt5-
/ma "Absorb-Agi" <t>
-Alt6-
/ma " Kurayami: Ni" <t>
-Alt7-
/ma "Hojo: Ni" <t>


Section VI: The Targets
Ninja/Dark Knight is used on any mob where the strategy does not involve kiting the target. With the available support you will set up using the normal strategy placement for every HNM. The spell rotation usually runs in the order of the macros, do not go all the way thru the line of hate spells you want to maximize the casting of the first 3 for hate, those are you bread and butter so to say of hate gaining ability.


Section VII: The Exceptions
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/Zer0nine_09_02/Khimrawr.jpg
Khimaira: (http://"http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Khimaira) Stun is a huge no on this guy, he quickly builds resistance to the spell, and will start using Fulmination @ 35% and under.
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/Zer0nine_09_02/tiafly.jpg
Tiamat: (http://"http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Tiamat") Sleep is not advised to spam. Sleep can be used to save a major wipe, as well as rest mp.
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd21/Zer0nine_09_02/nidrawr.jpg
Nidhogg: (http://"http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Nidhogg") Sleep is not an advised spam, depending on your linkshell. Some Linkshells who have trouble with Nidhogg or are undergoing Mpk attempts would be better off having the Ninja/Dark Knights avoid spamming sleep.


Section VIII: In Closing
I hope this guide has described the basics of Ninja/Dark Knight tanking, the advanced part of Ninja/Dark tanking is basically getting your own feel for the style and basically getting your own routines. I wish you all the best luck on drops!


Section IX: Contact Information
Ifrit Server -> Sev
Mp Website -> Sev
Bluegartrls.com -> Sev

Section X: Rights of Posting V1.0
Mysticalpheonix.com
FFXIonline.com

[little ninja]

ID like to see a video of you actually using this set up.

[Sevv]

Next time I'm in sky tanking ill try to remember to video this, since I don't really do hnms anymore.

[Grizzlebeard]

What exactly are you advocating the use of Nin/Drk for? HNM tanking or exp/merit party tanking?

[Spinnthrift]

Nin/Drk is used against HNM's, though he doesn't explain quite how it works in any detail.

[Electricity Gone Human]

Been meaning to find more info about this strategy. Hoping more info comes around soon.

[Spinnthrift]

I'd play it personally a little differently to how it appears Sevv plays it.

Edit: What I meant to say is that I'm looking forward to him completing this guide, as I might learn new tricks that I don't do normally, and query a few things later on about certain gear choices.

[Icemage]

My HNMLS has been selectively using NIN/DRK for a while on HNMs, and it's pretty good.

Pros:
- NIN/DRK has good ways to gain persistent enmity. Unlike Provoke, the enmity from spells like Stun sticks around for a good, long while.
- Can be placed safely in a party with a Paladin - in fact, this combination works very much like PLD/NIN, but with a heavier emphasis on continual enmity gain instead of spike hate gain.

Cons:
- Takes time to build enmity. This can be a problem with un-sleepable NMs if you get KO'd, as getting back to the top of the hate list can be tricky, and will take some time.
- Vulnerable against fast hitting enemies, as it doesn't have much Evasion and only limited damage mitigation. Not recommended for enemies like Byakko.
- I would add Bahamut #2 to the list of problem NMs. He builds resistance to Stun in much the same way as Khimaira.
- Useless in kiting battles due to MP-dependence (King Behemoth, most strategies involving Kirin, Guesh Urvan, etc.).

With smart gameplay and good coordination, this is a very effective combination, but you have to have smart mages who know when to cover for you if shadows go down.


Icemage

[Sevv]

Ya this is just the start of it working on it while i have time

[IfritnoItazura]

- Useless in kiting battles due to MP-dependence (King Behemoth, most strategies involving Kirin, Guesh Urvan, etc.).
No clue about others, but I think I've seen NIN/DRK on Kirin, kiting style.

I wasn't a participant, though from what I can tell, kiters run in a circle, and RDM give Refresh when the NIN/DRK ran near by. Also, I think the NIN was K.O.'ed a few times, but managed to get back to kiting anyway. (Guess the death of the BLMs "helped"?)

[Aksannyi]

NIN/DRK owns, many of our endgame ninjas use drk sub. I don't really know all the details because my ninja is 20, but I've seen great things from nin/drk.

[Malacite]

What about http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/c/c9/SwiftBelt.png or http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/3/32/Speed_Belt.png


Or as long as we're shooting for ideal, unrealistic gear >_>

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/8/8e/Ninurta%27s_Sash.png

[ItachiKujata]

Kiting with NIN/DRK is definitely doable as long as you have a RDM for refresh. I pretty much kite kirin NIN/DRK all the time and usually have enough MP with just refresh. I've gone through kirins without dying before... just need to have a good support group plus enough HP to handle a stonega IV or astral flow... usually I die because one of the summons does a ga spell and kirin follows with a Stone V or something..

Not sure what methods you use but this is my personal cycle...

Stun first
Last Resort, Souleater from the start to spike hate
Bind > Sleep > Kurayami: Ni > Stun
LR and SE whenever I feel I need more hate or save for emergencies.

If you can't sleep or stun then it's probably not worth it to use NIN/DRK at all.

You list gear but you should really list which set to use with what. For stun I typically load up on haste first then enmity unless I can get more enmity in a slot than I can haste, then I would do HP at least so you don't die so fast. All other spells/JAs I go with max enmity. As long as you have haste, the timers should line up so you can just spam the spells and still keep up shadows.

I guess all this depends on the strategy your linkshell uses. NIN/DRK really works well with a cotank PLD/NIN or another NIN/DRK. If done well your DDs can go all out without having to worry about dying...

In general I find NIN/DRK better for medium to long fights where you can get time to build some hate. Fights that take like 5 mins I personally don't see worth it since the DDs generate hate way faster than you could.

[Icemage]

Kiting with NIN/DRK is definitely doable as long as you have a RDM for refresh. I pretty much kite kirin NIN/DRK all the time and usually have enough MP with just refresh. I've gone through kirins without dying before... just need to have a good support group plus enough HP to handle a stonega IV or astral flow... usually I die because one of the summons does a ga spell and kirin follows with a Stone V or something..

Not sure what methods you use but this is my personal cycle...
Stun first
Last Resort, Souleater from the start to spike hate
Bind > Sleep > Kurayami: Ni > Stun
LR and SE whenever I feel I need more hate or save for emergencies.

If you can't sleep or stun then it's probably not worth it to use NIN/DRK at all.
You list gear but you should really list which set to use with what. For stun I typically load up on haste first then enmity unless I can get more enmity in a slot than I can haste, then I would do HP at least so you don't die so fast. All other spells/JAs I go with max enmity. As long as you have haste, the timers should line up so you can just spam the spells and still keep up shadows.

I guess all this depends on the strategy your linkshell uses. NIN/DRK really works
well with a cotank PLD/NIN or another NIN/DRK. If done well your DDs can go all out without having to worry about dying...

In general I find NIN/DRK better for medium to long fights where you can get time to build some hate. Fights that take like 5 mins I personally don't see worth it since the DDs generate hate way faster than you could.
That's really the point. It's not that NIN/DRK is necessarily bad at kiting fights, it just doesn't offer anything over what NIN/WAR does, with less maintenance. The trouble with kiting is that you're constantly losing enmity every time you're outside of melee range or run out of spell range, so the continual enmity gain gets largely negated - hence why the spike hate of Provoke actually works better, not to mention not needing Refresh.

And yes, as you say (and as I mentioned), you need a small head start to build enmity, otherwise BLMs or DDs can easily jump ahead of you on the hatelist.


Icemage

[little ninja]

Seems interesting but I never been asked to go Nin/Drk before. An my Drk is 61.

[Karinya]

What about http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/c/c9/SwiftBelt.png or http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/3/32/Speed_Belt.png
Or as long as we're shooting for ideal, unrealistic gear >_>
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/8/8e/Ninurta%27s_Sash.png
The attack and subtle blow are dead stats: you're not wielding hades sainti to hit things with them. I think it's because of the fact that you're not meleeing for any significant amount that enmity will outperform haste. You don't get the usual double benefit of haste for NINs (more damage *and* more invulnerability, making jobs who have to trade off between damage and toughness wonder "wtf were the balance team smoking?"). You can stun faster and get more hate that way, but I guess the OP is of the opinion that it will be inferior to more +Enmity in that slot. I'm sure he has plenty of haste gear for DD and merit situations and the decision to change it out for enmity was an intentional one.

[ItachiKujata]

That's really the point. It's not that NIN/DRK is necessarily bad at kiting fights, it just doesn't offer anything over what NIN/WAR does, with less maintenance. The trouble with kiting is that you're constantly losing enmity every time you're outside of melee range or run out of spell range, so the continual enmity gain gets largely negated - hence why the spike hate of Provoke actually works better, not to mention not needing Refresh.

And yes, as you say (and as I mentioned), you need a small head start to build enmity, otherwise BLMs or DDs can easily jump ahead of you on the hatelist.


Icemage

Actually it does offer a lot more than what NIN/WAR does... you essentially only have provoke/warcry with NIN/WAR... defender is nice but with kirin specifically, I don't see it as a benefit. I started out kiting NIN/WAR and I could never get hate from a PLD. Once I tried NIN/DRK, not only was I able to get hate but I was able to keep it through the fight. Since then i've consistently been using NIN/DRK and have seen much better results. This has also been against the same PLD with the same gear as before so somewhat of a controlled situation.

The loss of enmity from moving out of melee range isn't as large as you might think. Especially since i'm usually spamming stun/bind/sleep/kurayami anyway... not to mention souleater/last resort. compared to provoking/warcry/ninjitsu. If you haven't tried NIN/DRK kiting, I suggest you try it out and compare it directly to NIN/WAR, you'll be surprised how much better it is.

Of course this assumes you do have the support, but with refresh and about 170mp I usually don't have to wait for mp.

[Icemage]

Actually it does offer a lot more than what NIN/WAR does... you essentially only have provoke/warcry with NIN/WAR... defender is nice but with kirin specifically, I don't see it as a benefit. I started out kiting NIN/WAR and I could never get hate from a PLD. Once I tried NIN/DRK, not only was I able to get hate but I was able to keep it through the fight. Since then i've consistently been using NIN/DRK and have seen much better results. This has also been against the same PLD with the same gear as before so somewhat of a controlled situation.

The loss of enmity from moving out of melee range isn't as large as you might think. Especially since i'm usually spamming stun/bind/sleep/kurayami anyway... not to mention souleater/last resort. compared to provoking/warcry/ninjitsu. If you haven't tried NIN/DRK kiting, I suggest you try it out and compare it directly to NIN/WAR, you'll be surprised how much better it is.

Of course this assumes you do have the support, but with refresh and about 170mp I usually don't have to wait for mp.
Actually the main problem with NIN kiting on Kirin, regardless of sub, is that you're in trouble once daytime hits, even with AF+1 boots, as Gravity won't save you for long. :)

It works OK on Kirin, especially as he's already immune to Sleep so you don't have to worry about building resistance, but if your BLMs are even halfway competent there's not much you can do about them ripping hate off of you with Tornado II. And woe is you if you get a bad draw on Astral Flow and get KO'd (which is just going to happen sometimes no matter how much you try to avoid it), as it'll take you quite a while to climb back up on the hate list - and there's always the issue of your poor RDM having to chase you all over the place trying to keep Refresh on you while you're dodging Stonega IVs (same criticism can be levelled at PLD/WAR and PLD/NIN, though they spike hate much faster than NIN/DRK).

NIN/DRK is cool, I just think it's roughly an even trade for NIN/WAR in kiting fights. It improves in quality with multiple kiters, since you don't bleed enmity when you're not at the top of the hatelist, but the tradeoffs are still there - unlike in cases like CoP Wyrms, where there really aren't any drawbacks aside from the longer lead-up time to rebuild hate if you get KO'd.


Icemage

[IfritnoItazura]

Actually the main problem with NIN kiting on Kirin, regardless of sub, is that you're in trouble once daytime hits, even with AF+1 boots, as Gravity won't save you for long. :)
Kirin actually stops to cast spells very often, which makes it kitable. Just have to remember to keep running if it's a -ga. >_>;



and there's always the issue of your poor RDM having to chase you all over the place trying to keep Refresh on you while you're dodging Stonega IVs
It's actually not that bad, from what I can tell by watching. Since the kiting path is a circle, just cut across to intercept.

[ItachiKujata]

I initially wrote out another long post but thinking about it we pretty much agree NIN/DRK is good. I think you're underrating it's kiting effectiveness and the time it takes to build hate with it. NIN/WAR might have spike hate initially (remains to be seen as souleater/last resort generate as much hate or more as provoke/warcry) but I guarantee after a couple spell cycles, NIN/DRK will get hate... if that's too long to wait then yea NIN/WAR is probably the tank you need because /DRK really excels at longer fights... not to mention the fun you can have meleeing with souleater hehe...

but back to the point of the thread...