Brd puller

[Croix]

I'm planning on trying out Brd as my first advanced job so I'm trying to educate myself on all things Brd. I've read that Brd's will sometimes act as puller for the group. How do Brd's typically pull....throwing weapons or song/spell?

[Olorin401]

I usually pull with Elegy.. you can never go wrong with that, unless a Greater Colibri mimics it at you when your Utsusemi shadows are down :biggrin:
I suppose you could also pull with Ninjitsu.. something benign to BRDs like Kurayami. If you're subbing WHM, Dia II, Paralyze or Slow work well also.

[Ellipses]

Songs. Specifically, Elegy.

[Truece]

And try to avoid pulling with a DoT spell/song/ninjitsu as you may want to sleep the mob when it gets back to camp.

[Pavlyn]

my bard just entered the point where colibri are exp mobs and i have an additional question about bard pulling. i often hear about ridicously high experience chains that groups get when using a bard puller. what are the mechanics of this? do most bards keep just one or two mobs slept at the camp, but still keep pulling as normal while keeping an eye on the one or two at the campsite?

i am 55 now and don't have a lot of experience pulling. i've only been asked to pull twice. one was way back in garliage citadel and the other was recently in the boyada tree fighting crabs. both of these were easy enough, but i was not employing sleep or anything in my pulling tactics. we typically got chain 4 with the occasional chain 5, but i hear about chain 150+ in merit parties and have no idea how this is achieved.

[Croix]

Thank you all for your responses ^_^

[Icemage]

my bard just entered the point where colibri are exp mobs and i have an additional question about bard pulling. i often hear about ridicously high experience chains that groups get when using a bard puller. what are the mechanics of this? do most bards keep just one or two mobs slept at the camp, but still keep pulling as normal while keeping an eye on the one or two at the campsite?

i am 55 now and don't have a lot of experience pulling. i've only been asked to pull twice. one was way back in garliage citadel and the other was recently in the boyada tree fighting crabs. both of these were easy enough, but i was not employing sleep or anything in my pulling tactics. we typically got chain 4 with the occasional chain 5, but i hear about chain 150+ in merit parties and have no idea how this is achieved.
Pull a mob, sleep it, sing 1-2 songs for the party, reset Utsusemi/Blinks/Stoneskin if necessary, go grab the next mob. The number of songs you can sing is directly related to how close the party is to killing off the previous mob.

You can save some time by pulling pet-enabled enemies like Dragoon or Beastmaster types since the pets will keep chains alive and die quite quickly.

If you do this efficiently and plan your pulls correctly so that respawns happen in a manageable order, you can create effectively infinite XP chains. My personal best is XP chain #241 (but don't expect this before level 74+, if it ever happens). Note that you DO need very good players to pull this sort of thing off. I've never seen these sorts of results in a pickup party - only in LS parties with my HNMLS where everyone has good gear and great playing skills.


Icemage

[Olorin401]

my bard just entered the point where colibri are exp mobs and i have an additional question about bard pulling. i often hear about ridicously high experience chains that groups get when using a bard puller. what are the mechanics of this? do most bards keep just one or two mobs slept at the camp, but still keep pulling as normal while keeping an eye on the one or two at the campsite?
i am 55 now and don't have a lot of experience pulling. i've only been asked to pull twice. one was way back in garliage citadel and the other was recently in the boyada tree fighting crabs. both of these were easy enough, but i was not employing sleep or anything in my pulling tactics. we typically got chain 4 with the occasional chain 5, but i hear about chain 150+ in merit parties and have no idea how this is achieved.
It pretty much involves having at least two mobs at your party camp at once - one that the group is actively fighting, and one on hold (usually asleep) so that the party can start right away. Repeat this fast enough and you get theoretically infinite chains.

Problems you can run into include people going afk, other parties moving in on your camp, and links.. this is a HUGE problem with Colibri too since you are risking your entire party if you dare to use Horde Lullaby.

Personally my highest chain is 186, though I'll frequently get 100 and the party will want to stop for a rest. Not a big deal, the EXP isn't going anywhere.

Edit: Had a party the other day at the colibri camp in Thickets.. Chain 340!

[Pavlyn]

thanks a lot Icemage and Olorin.

what you described doesn't sound too bad, but i'm sure it will take quite a bit of practice to get halfway decent at it. i like to think that i learn quickly, but as i stated in my first post i dont have much experience pulling. i know i still have a long way to go until i'm at the point where crazy chains will be expected. before that though i'll need to finish leveling, level ninja to 37 and get my hands on a Mary's Horn.

fun times ahead.

[Croix]

Not to derail my own thread, but.....I keep seeing people mention leveling Nin for their sub. Is having Nin as a sub pretty much expected once you get into the upper levels as a Brd?

[Pavlyn]

i think it depends who you ask if you'll get an answer saying bard needs nin as an available sub or not. i've read arguments from both sides that are reasonible. i know i'd prefer not to have to level nin sub, but i understand it's usefulness and i also like to have options to provide for whatever the party wants. some people say /nin is needed to making pulling easier and minimize the chance of downtime, while others argue bards are supposed to provide total support which /whm is the only sub that will do that and that /whm does not hinder pulling.

[Olorin401]

Not to derail my own thread, but.....I keep seeing people mention leveling Nin for their sub. Is having Nin as a sub pretty much expected once you get into the upper levels as a Brd?
Yes. WHM and NIN are the two major subjobs for BRD that most people will ask you to bring. You can manage with WHM but Utsusemi:Ni casts much faster than Blink+Stoneskin.

(Off topic note.. a weird thing happened the other day - my new ls claimed Khimaira and told me to switch to BRD/BLM for Troubadour+ES Elegy..)

[Callisto]

For XP pre-74 stick to /WHM, Ichi isn't always enough on its own, and through camps such as Caederva Mire you're going to help your party alot more having status cures than shadows.

74+ /NIN is the most efficient puller, and always use Elegy unless the timer is down, in which case use Finale. Don't worry about Colibri casting Elegy back at you, in most cases they won't have high enough relative CHR to land it on you even if it does take down shadows.

Add: That's the new rage for HNM Olo...I don't know what they do when Elegy wears off after 2 minutes and you have 8 left on your timer though lol...

[Croix]

Ok, thanks for the info! Looks like I'll have to add Mnk, then War, then Nin to the list of jobs I need to level up. Good thing is that Nin/War looks like a fun combo, but an expensive one. I guess I'll save Nin for last and hope that I have more gil by then ^_^

[Olorin401]

For XP pre-74 stick to /WHM, Ichi isn't always enough on its own, and through camps such as Caederva Mire you're going to help your party alot more having status cures than shadows.
74+ /NIN is the most efficient puller, and always use Elegy unless the timer is down, in which case use Finale. Don't worry about Colibri casting Elegy back at you, in most cases they won't have high enough relative CHR to land it on you even if it does take down shadows.
Add: That's the new rage for HNM Olo...I don't know what they do when Elegy wears off after 2 minutes and you have 8 left on your timer though lol...
The other day they had me and our Gjallarhorn BRD bring sub-BLM - We used Troubadour+ES+Elegy and for him it lasted almost 10 mins and for me it lasted about 7. That just about covered the Troubadour timers.

[Icemage]

The other day they had me and our Gjallarhorn BRD bring sub-BLM - We used Troubadour+ES+Elegy and for him it lasted almost 10 mins and for me it lasted about 7. That just about covered the Troubadour timers.
According to FFXIclopedia, duration of Carnage Elegy is 180 seconds (3 minutes) with no bonuses, and 216 seconds (3 minutes + 6 seconds) with a Horn +1 (+2 to Elegy). Gjallarhorn is (supposedly) +2 to all songs, so it should have resulted in the same duration.

Troubadour doubles the duration, so you're looking at 7 minutes, 12 seconds per cast, assuming no resists by using Elemental Seal + Troubadour.


Icemage

[Zidain]

I reciently have start play BRD/NIN and IMHO i think the shadows is alot quicker than Blink and Stoneskin. I actually started out being lvl 75 BRD/WHM, but it took to long to cast the 2 spells. I ended up lvlin NIN to 37, and it was the best thing that i ever did. I have many other jobs that can use it, so its a good thing to have at lvl 37!

[Sabaron]

I reciently have start play BRD/NIN and IMHO i think the shadows is alot quicker than Blink and Stoneskin. I actually started out being lvl 75 BRD/WHM, but it took to long to cast the 2 spells. I ended up lvlin NIN to 37, and it was the best thing that i ever did. I have many other jobs that can use it, so its a good thing to have at lvl 37!

Utsusemi shadows are a lot faster, it's not really a matter of opinion. Ichi takes 4 seconds to cast, Stoneskin takes 7 and Blink takes 6.

Generally speaking, I really want to have /NIN when I'm in a Colibri camp (not including Lessers) because the Shadows are 100% and will absorb the Elegy and Lullaby I have to use to pull the mob, otherwise I'm going to be 50% slowed all the time and frequently eating Lullaby which is very not good.

On anything else especially Area of Effect mobs like Puk and Eruca or mobs with weird status effects like Imps I must say that /WHM is the better choice-- -na and Cures come in very handy.

[Icemage]

/NIN is a faster puller, but there are times when Utsusemi doesn't protect you. Imps like to do things like hit you with Poisonga II, Mamool Ja Philosophers like to cast Sleepga II or Aeroga III, and various and sundry other enemies do fun stuff to mess you up.

It's certainly a bit safer than /WHM, but depending on the camp, it's also a liability at times since you can't pitch in if the main party can't get things under control, and you're entirely dependent on the RDM in the party if you suck at pulling.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

If you're a BRD, I urge you not to define your job as being a puller. You are party support and if you play it right, you can not only make your PT a wrecking crew with your buffs, but also but utilizing /WHM to spot RDM and WHM on Cures and status removal.

A BRD's MP pool is a pitful sight and some people look at MP at useful for nothing but cures. Tossing out Regens and Status cures can make all the difference to the backline. A WHM/SCH/RDM won't have to be stuck in something else mid-cast and just focus on Curing and MP recovery.

The ultimate role of BRD/COR/RDM is to make a PT run more effectively. Pulling should be a secondary focus. The BRDs that favor pulling and don't learn to balance it out don't go unnoticed just because they're BRDs. I very much do notice when there isn't a pair of notes or dice over my head. I especially note it on CORs because they have so very little to do between buffs but melee, my buffs should hardly ever be down when you have four or five damn minutes to rebuff me, Mr. Pirate.

When i see a BRD/NIN pre-70, I will always ask them to change to /WHM. When they hesitate or don't answer me, that tells me thier motive for levelling the job and an unwillingness to play the job properly. If I'm the leader, I will remove them. The name of the job doesn't hold sway over everyone, especially when you're the one that did make the effort to have /WHM. Seriously, WHM to 37 is not that damn hard.

[Sabaron]

If you're a BRD, I urge you not to define your job as being a puller. You are party support and if you play it right, you can not only make your PT a wrecking crew with your buffs, but also but utilizing /WHM to spot RDM and WHM on Cures and status removal.

A BRD's MP pool is a pitful sight and some people look at MP at useful for nothing but cures. Tossing out Regens and Status cures can make all the difference to the backline. A WHM/SCH/RDM won't have to be stuck in something else mid-cast and just focus on Curing and MP recovery.

The ultimate role of BRD/COR/RDM is to make a PT run more effectively. Pulling should be a secondary focus. The BRDs that favor pulling and don't learn to balance it out don't go unnoticed just because they're BRDs. I very much do notice when there isn't a pair of notes or dice over my head. I especially note it on CORs because they have so very little to do between buffs but melee, my buffs should hardly ever be down when you have four or five damn minutes to rebuff me, Mr. Pirate.

When i see a BRD/NIN pre-70, I will always ask them to change to /WHM. When they hesitate or don't answer me, that tells me thier motive for levelling the job and an unwillingness to play the job properly. If I'm the leader, I will remove them. The name of the job doesn't hold sway over everyone, especially when you're the one that did make the effort to have /WHM. Seriously, WHM to 37 is not that damn hard.

1. While pulling, my buffs are never down.
2. While killing Colibri, I have no use for Cures (curing a Colibri camp pre 70 is quite a yawn with a Ninja and /NINs.
3. If you remove a DD from the party, you slow it down, and I, the Bard, have nothing to do between buffs anyway. Why shouldn't I pull? I have nothing else to do. By extension, if I'm pulling Colibri, /NIN is better than /WHM because Blink and Stoneskin take forever to cast and won't protect me from mimed Lullabies.

However, under normal conditions, I agree with you. Colibri are an exception, but a rather large one.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

1. While pulling, my buffs are never down.

Sadly, this is not the case with most BRD/NINs. Usually, buffs are down and they're down a majority of the time. Pulling is a secondary function to BRD, if you can fufill its main function, you have no business in a PT.

2. While killing Colibri, I have no use for Cures (curing a Colibri camp pre 70 is quite a yawn with a Ninja and /NINs.

And if the PT spins out of control - which it can and still does, even with NIN and /NIN - you're practically powerless to help bring it back under control, ESPECIALLY on those Colibri you like to mention.

3. If you remove a DD from the party, you slow it down, and I, the Bard, have nothing to do between buffs anyway. Why shouldn't I pull? I have nothing else to do. By extension, if I'm pulling Colibri, /NIN is better than /WHM because Blink and Stoneskin take forever to cast and won't protect me from mimed Lullabies.

Again, if a BRD can't focus on buffs - or they can't buff properly, which is the majority of BRDs in both cases - then they have no business in a PT. One of the best BRD pullers I had, for highest chains, was /WHM and didn't slow us down one bit and he kept buffs on. The SAM was /RNG and I was RNG/WAR in that PT. We were all totally slowing the merit PT down :rolleyes:

I disagree with BRD/NIN because the vast majority of BRDs that /NIN are terrible BRDs that cannot perform the defining function of thier job. I don't care how high the chains are, do your damn job first, then pull. Very, very few BRD/NINs impress me, most of them are embarassments.

SE apparently agrees that BRD's are pretty slack, otherwise they wouldn't be cooking up JAs to keep them busy.

[Icemage]

^

It's totally possible to pull as BRD/WHM, but you reaaaaaally have to be on the ball and know how to pull. Animation lag on some songs (I'm looking at you Threnody!) can get you in trouble, so you have to know how to set your macros up to switch instruments to avoid getting motion-locked (and giving the monster that extra swing or two at you).

Assuming you know how to do this, pulling on BRD/WHM is perfectly acceptable - but it is somewhat draining, and even for veteran players it's hard to keep up for more than a couple of hours without making too many mistakes. Especially when pulling those irksome Skoffins in Bhaflau Thickets...


Icemage

[Sabaron]

^

It's totally possible to pull as BRD/WHM, but you reaaaaaally have to be on the ball and know how to pull. Animation lag on some songs (I'm looking at you Threnody!) can get you in trouble, so you have to know how to set your macros up to switch instruments to avoid getting motion-locked (and giving the monster that extra swing or two at you).

Assuming you know how to do this, pulling on BRD/WHM is perfectly acceptable - but it is somewhat draining, and even for veteran players it's hard to keep up for more than a couple of hours without making too many mistakes. Especially when pulling those irksome Skoffins in Bhaflau Thickets...


Icemage

Are you advocating BRD/NIN at the MJSP Mook/Sea Puk/Skoffin camp?

I've pulled Skoffins as RDM/WHM with full Stoneskin and Blink up and yeah... They're nasty. BRD/WHM would have half Stoneskin and their armor is lighter than RDM's which doesn't sound fun at all.

I've never hit 25kph at MJSP especially with Skoffins in the mix--they always seem to drain my mp badly. Then again, I don't think I've taken a 2 Bard Meri at MJSP either. How do you usually set up to meri at MJSP? Do you static?

[Icemage]

Are you advocating BRD/NIN at the MJSP Mook/Sea Puk/Skoffin camp?

I've pulled Skoffins as RDM/WHM with full Stoneskin and Blink up and yeah... They're nasty. BRD/WHM would have half Stoneskin and their armor is lighter than RDM's which doesn't sound fun at all.

I've never hit 25kph at MJSP especially with Skoffins in the mix--they always seem to drain my mp badly. Then again, I don't think I've taken a 2 Bard Meri at MJSP either. How do you usually set up to meri at MJSP? Do you static?
I don't static, but my HNMLS is full of people who have great gear and job mixes. We usually go in as BRD BRD RDM DD DD DD and make a minimum of 22K/hr, with the average being above 25K/hr at the Mamool Staging Point.

Skoffins aren't bad if you have a solid RDM/WHM. We set up one BRD as /NIN for primary pulling (esp. vs. Skoffins), and a second as /WHM (for secondary paralynas). If your job mix, gear and play skills are up to snuff you can get infinite XP chains there (my personal best is limit chain #232 or so there). We sometimes replace the BRD/WHM with a COR/WHM when we have one available, and that works just as well, if not better.


Icemage

[Olorin401]

Sadly, this is not the case with most BRD/NINs. Usually, buffs are down and they're down a majority of the time. Pulling is a secondary function to BRD, if you can fufill its main function, you have no business in a PT.
If a BRD is at level 74-75 and they can't keep songs going on a 3 minute cycle AND continuously pull, then they're crappy BRDs. Period.

And I disagree with pulling being a secondary function as well. I like to think of it as just as primary and essential to keeping the party going as the songs.

[Callisto]

If a BRD is at level 74-75 and they can't keep songs going on a 3 minute cycle AND continuously pull, then they're crappy BRDs. Period.

And I disagree with pulling being a secondary function as well. I like to think of it as just as primary and essential to keeping the party going as the songs.

Agreed there. In a party whoever is best at a certain role should be the one filling it. BRD is among the best pullers in the game, IMO it's second only to RDM/DRK. Your BRD in an XP party should be pulling, and they shouldn't have problems keeping buffs up between pulls. If they are then they're just not that good at it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

And I disagree with pulling being a secondary function as well. I like to think of it as just as primary and essential to keeping the party going as the songs.

Any job can pull, not every job can buff or restore its own MP. If I invite a BRD, I only want one thing from them - Buffs. Buffs are what defines the job. If you want to pull, that's dandy, but I can still get somone else to do that. THF, COR, RNG, WAR, SAM, DRK - pick one.

BRD and COR have the best tools at thier disposal and thus they are they best potential pullers, but all that is for naught if you don't have the skill to use those tools or are unwilling to invest in the tools. Inviting a BRD does not garuntee you high chains, ever, but it should garuntee you buff. I've known BRDs that couldn't break chain #3 because they couldn't deal with the pressure or wanted to play nice with the PTs around them.

That or they value thier EXP too much when, let's face it, BRD, COR and RDM EXP is completely disposable. Quit treating it like its your blood, you can get it back easily. I go out and pull like I have nothing to lose because I honestly don't. I'll lose, what, 1.5k at worst? Boo hoo.

Anyway, I feel there have been many, many, many PTs where it would have been better that I pulled as COR instead of our BRD/NIN pulling at all. Plenty of PTs where we could have had higher chains because one player didn't have the skill to keep buffs up and mobs lined up when thats all we wanted from them.

[IfritnoItazura]

let's face it, BRD, COR and RDM EXP is completely disposable.
Before WotG, I'd disagree. For RDM anyway. Seeking for 3hrs on RDM75 was not uncommon to me. :( Too many people have the job...

After WotG came out, though, I have the option of Campaign Battles, or just throw up the seek flag and usually get invites within minutes. :thumbsup: