Accession Assessments

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

OK, I just got Accession and Manifestation, due to my PTs needing /WHM in crawler's nest, not much time to play with Manifestation just yet.

Observations thus far:


SCH's AoE cures are vastly more MP efficient than the tiers of Curaga. Accession is x3 MP cost to AoE the spell, but Cure I-IV consume much less than Curaga I-IV. But then you could use Penury to halve the cost of the first two Curaga tiers if you are subbing /WHM. Still, a killer deal if you're not /WHM.
This also means SCH would get AoE Cure III 11 levels before WHM gets Curaga III and at a cheaper cost.
Where tiers of Protect are equal, protectra and Protectra II are more efficient tham AoEing Protect II, but at least if you're /RDM or /BLM, you still have an option to buff defense. Not a real problem if you keep attending to it as needed, which isn't often.
Sneak and Invisible AoE, as do -na spells. Eat it Divine Veil.
Some of these AoEs - like Blink - have a massive hate spike, don't use this if the fight just started. Using it with Regen II seemed to have less hate than most other spells.
The duration of the Blink is longer than standard blink. Meaning it should last a few fights if you didn't pull hate.
Regen II seems to be worth the cost of casting, even at 99 MP under Accession, particularly against AoE mobs

Didn't get to play with /RDM yet, but seeing I don't have Blink there til 44, I figure I'll still bounce between /WHM and /BLM until then.

[Malacite]

Sneak and Invisible AoE, as do -na spells. Eat it Divine Veil.


:rofl:

[Feenicks]

Hang on, something's not quite right here. Curaga I-IV do not heal the same amount as Cure I-IV - rather, each tier of Curaga heals for the same amount as the next highest tier of Cure spell. Curaga is an AoE which heals the same amount as Cure II per person, Curaga II heals the same as a Cure III per person etc. So when taking Accession into account the numbers are different:

Cure I + Accession: 6 people healed for 30HP, costs 3x8=24MP

Curaga: 6 people healed for 90HP, costs 60MP
Cure II + Accession: 6 people healed for 90HP, costs 3x24=72MP

Curaga II: 6 people healed for 190HP, costs 120MP
Cure III + Accession: 6 people healed for 190HP, costs 3x48=144MP

Curaga III: 6 people healed for 380HP, costs 180MP
Cure IV + Accession: 6 people healed for 380HP, costs 3x88=264MP

And there's no comparable spell in SCH's library to WHM's Curaga IV since SCH can't cast Cure V.

However if you are using Penury together with Accession then the results are much more favourable. One thing I'm interested in is the difference in hate accumulated between the two methods - my guess is that SCH will get more hate since you're using a Job Ability as well as casting the spell.

[Malacite]

Again I lament the inability to use the last 4 stratagems with /SCH ; ;

I know the job needed something unique but *damn*


Oh well, back to speculating AF and merits for the new jobs :3

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

The true uses of Accession definitely appear to be Blinkga and Stoneskinga. There is nothing like absorbing 350 x 6 damage for only 87 MP.

[Icemage]

Also note that if you're using Penury with Accession on a Cure spell, that's two strategem charges that you could be spending elsewhere. Not saying that doing so is a bad idea, but you'd need two charges on hand to do so. Also note that it takes a bit of time to activate each ability, and those precious seconds can be a problem if the party just got hit with an AoE like Cursed Sphere from a Darter or something.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

The thought hadn't really even crossed my mind to stack Strategems. Its nice they can be stacked, but it does indeed seem kind of a waste. But maybe not so bad to get that initial round of Protect out there before a party really gets started

In most cases where AoE Cures are concerned, Curaga II from /WHM has often proved more than sufficient. And yes, Curaga II is more of an AoE Cure III than Accession/Cure II would be. It was kinda late while posting and I was excited just playing with the ability, still its a nice option to have when not /WHM


Again I lament the inability to use the last 4 stratagems with /SCH ; ;

I know the job needed something unique but *damn*

If they did that, the only mages would be Red ones and they'd all sub /SCH. In terms of party support, anyway.

[Pteryx]

Sneak and Invisible AoE, as do -na spells. Eat it Divine Veil.

Now I'm even more convinced that Divine Veil ought to be a seperate JA instead of a Divine Seal upgrade. SCHs are now better Mire healers than WHMs... -- Pteryx

[IfritnoItazura]

Now I'm even more convinced that Divine Veil ought to be a seperate JA instead of a Divine Seal upgrade. SCHs are now better Mire healers than WHMs... -- Pteryx

Given that an Imp may silence-ga a party three times in the 40 seconds it lives, even a Scholar will be resorting to individually casting Silena on people sooner or later.

When it comes to that, RDM still wins with Fast Cast. =b

* * *

I wish party leaders would invite more BLUs or SMNs more in those parties, especially before merit levels or when there's no RDM to silence the Firaga II's. It sucks watching your front line getting decimated and you're helpless to do anything as a PLD tank. (I can never seen to run fast enough to get the rest of the party out of the range. >_<; ) ◀Diamondhide▶? ◀Earthen Ward▶? ◀Yes, Please.▶

I guess Stoneskin-ga from Scholar would be good here. heh.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Correction, echo drops win. Fast Cast, Accession and Divine Veil mean little if people don't carry them. And even with those abilities or traits, echos willl always been needed where silence is frequently a concern.

[Icemage]

Correction, echo drops win. Fast Cast, Accession and Divine Veil mean little if people don't carry them. And even with those abilities or traits, echos willl always been needed where silence is frequently a concern.
None of this would be as much of a concern if Barsilencera actually worked worth a damn...


Icemage

[Patchinko]

None of this would be as much of a concern if Barsilencera actually worked worth a damn...
Icemage

QFT.

My Barsilence is standing out of range of the AOE. I've had a stack of Echo Drops collecting dust in my inventory since I started grinding Mire.

[IfritnoItazura]

Correction, echo drops win.
It's a bit unreasonable to except tanks to carry enough Echo Drops to last through an exp session. Imps can spam slience-ga back-to-back-to-back, if you haven't noticed. It's healer's job to make drop Silena on the tank ASAP, IMO, and every back line job's duty to help out with the rest of Silena.

Now, for a BRD puller who's not glued to the front line, I can see him/her carrying 4 stacks and be fairly certain it'd last the entire session.

Silena is the main reason why I refuse to party as the sole back line mage in the Mires now as RDM. I can Silena the tank and handle main healing and an Haste or two, but not when every DD just turns into an MP sponge if I can't get Silena to them for 10 seconds.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

It's a bit unreasonable to except tanks to carry enough Echo Drops to last through an exp session. Imps can spam slience-ga back-to-back-to-back, if you haven't noticed. It's healer's job to make drop Silena on the tank ASAP, IMO, and every back line job's duty to help out with the rest of Silena.

This

Silena is the main reason why I refuse to party as the sole back line mage in the Mires now as RDM. I can Silena the tank and handle main healing and an Haste or two, but not when every DD just turns into an MP sponge if I can't get Silena to them for 10 seconds.

Then this. Can't have it both ways. Its best for melees to have a few stacks on them, just to be self sufficient when they see you can't get around to them.

Now, for a BRD puller who's not glued to the front line, I can see him/her carrying 4 stacks and be fairly certain it'd last the entire session.

BRD puller would hardly get Silenced and would actually be better for going /WHM to allieviate the RDM or WHM a little. Imps aren't that fast, they usually have to cast Blaze Spikes or some high tier spell before they go after you. But then, I see BRD EXP as expendable.

[Malacite]

Imps aren't that fast, they usually have to cast Blaze Spikes or some high tier spell before they go after you. But then, I see BRD EXP as expendable.

Seeing as imps move faster than I do... no.

And even with Barsilence and Baraero I still get silenced way too often for my liking on BRD... resist silence my ass, how about making barspells work the way they did in other FFs >_>.

I toss 'em out in exp all the time anyway, but is it too much to ask of SE to make them actually work with any kind of reasonable reliability?

[Pteryx]

Agreed. As near as I can tell, the only Barstatus that has any noticable effect is Barparalyze, due to it lowering the proc rate of Paralyzes that land while it's up. Maybe Barblind reduces the accuracy penalty from Blind too; I dunno as I'm no front-liner. Silence, though, is on-or-off; a small chance of a modest reduction in duration is thus not gonna cut it. -- Pteryx

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

a small chance of a modest reduction in duration is thus not gonna cut it.

If it worked 100%, then there would be no need for the drops at all.

But honestly its such a small detail to devote a derail to.

[Pteryx]

If it worked 100%, then there would be no need for the drops at all.

I agree that just making the Barstatuses for on-or-off ailments grant complete immunity is a bit much. A 25% chance of a total resist, though, would be well worth casting the spell over. -- Pteryx

[Malacite]

I'd say between 50-75% maximum resist rates would be plenty fair. WHM is supposed to be the undisputed master of healing and protecting the party after all (well, alongside PLD)

[Karinya]

The barstatus spells we have now are low enough levels that /WHM can use them just as well. That's why whenever WHM improvement threads come up, someone (sometimes me) suggests barstatus II spells, which would be more effective *and WHM 38+*.

Anyway... Stoneskinga and Blinkga are nothing SMN can't already do on a 1 min shared timer instead of 4 min. SCH needs some unique tricks to call its own and I'm not sure Regenga II is going to be enough.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Adding a second tier to bars-element spells would be a tad overpowered with you consider the existance of BRD's Carols and the elemental resistance gear out there. WARs can tank through Wyrms elemental attacks with those spells on, after all. I've also averted many deadly Hobgoblin Bomb Tosses with Barfira and Fire Carol on my BRD. That's not to mention the benefits of using these against mobs like the Bomb Queen, Bahamut and Celestial Avatars.

That said, I think you're overlooking the fact that SCH can assimilate various roles in a PT more capably than a SMN could. If you're a SCH and a SMN is in PT, that SMN no longer has to worry about main heal or always rehashing the same pact. They can cover status cures and you can put that MP towards Curing/Enfeebling/Nuking. If I have a WHM or RDM Main Healer, I can shift to the role of BLM better than a RDM would. If we have a RDM that wants to do something besides main heal, I can do that capably.

I think I only take issue that SCH has no main job enfeebles, yet it gets a modest amount of main job enhancing magic. Not having Bind natively limits its solo capability a little and I think couple more job traits could be beneficial. SCH definately isn't hurting on spell options or job abilities otherwise.