Subjobs 0.0

[Galaxia]

Hey!

What SJ's everything think is gonna be used on these?
So far I'm thinking /WHM and /BLM
could this be the first job ppl won't try and find a /nin use 0.0

[Tsrwedge]

I'd be willing to bet /whm. But that said, I think any mage sub will fit the job nicely. It'll all be situational, if a party has a healer already, a Scholar may be asked to bring /blm. After all, Scholar does get native Cures and has White Arts to empower those cures in an emergency. (Arts only have a 60 second cooldown, so switching between the two arts isn't going to be a huge issue.)

Like Dancer, this job is going to show tremendous flexibility to fit the role needed.

[Armando]

could this be the first job ppl won't try and find a /nin use 0.0No. People will find a use for /NIN on every job.

[Galaxia]

ur telling me....
I dunno why ppl hype Nin so much!
Every Job ppl seem to inforce /nin!
Really sucks!

I'm stucking with /whm or /blm
/nin for SCH will be useless

[Nuriko]

It will only be useless if people can't use Utsusemi due to a quirk of the job, or if Scholar has a comparable ability (and isnt THAT a horrible thought?)

[Tsrwedge]

Here's a thought... Scholar could probably solo effectively /nin. Utsusemi is up, if it goes down at a bad time, White Arts -> Penury (halves casting time of next white magic spell) -> Stoneskin.

[Galaxia]

Ninja isn't the Answer to everything >.<
Although alot of people think it is.

I'm hoping SE make the new jobs blow Ninja out of the water as subs for them

[Tsrwedge]

lol, I'm not a /nin lover by any stretch of the mind - I don't even have it unlocked :P

[Raydeus]

Different subs work good for different situations. Trying to skip a subjob because is used too often is as dumb as trying to only use one sub for everything. :P


PS > Yeah I'm thinking mage subs (including SNM) have the best possibilities, but only time and experience will tell. :thumbsup:

[Galaxia]

I don't use Ninja cause personaly I don't need it but when it became popular ppl tried to force it into jobs it's not needed on.
Cor/Nin NOT NEEDED! lol

Ya can gurantee they will try and force it on DNC and SCH!
But as for SCH I'd say WHM BLM SMN RDM(Maybe)

P.S TSR I didn't mean you =P

SCH will be a cool job if ppl don't try and force Nin onto it.

[Tsrwedge]

PS > Yeah I'm thinking mage subs (including SNM) have the best possibilities, but only time and experience will tell. :thumbsup:
Hmm... unless you're looking at the new Spirit Recover MP ability for SMN, I don't really see its potential - what do you have in mind?

[Galaxia]

I think he was refering the the MP Boost and MP Refresh.
Thats if the SCH uses Mp 0.0
Who knows til it's been played for afew lvls

[Tsrwedge]

I had a chance to play with it at FanFest. It definitely used MP, and a Hume SCH60/RDM30 had somewhere in the 500s with an Astral Ring.

That said, remember one of the Stratagems for Light Arts and Dark Arts allows the Scholar to use only half the normal MP on his/her next cast.

[Raydeus]

Yep, MP boost + Refresh, and also maybe White/Black Grimoire's Enhancing the limited BPs you can get from subbing SMN.

[Galaxia]

Yea sounds like a WHM BLM SMN SJ run!
Packing SCH with MP equipment sounds like a safe choice too.

[Dymlos]

Naw, people will have SCH with /WHM and turn them into healbots.

[Galaxia]

Maybe but they can also use /Blm and use them as the main DD
Half the MP cost and theres probs tons of other useful skills

[Tsrwedge]

That's an interesting idea Raydeus, Arts affecting the Blood Pacts. It'd be interesting to see some empirical evidence on this once we get some scholars high enough to see a difference in the BPs... though I think if we can use Arts while subbing SCH, SMN/SCH will be infinitely more useful than SCH/SMN.

[Galaxia]

And it would take SMN out of the Mindless healing...

Maybe SCH could even lower BP delay?

[Tsrwedge]

It might. More likely, they'll be asked to hit Dark Arts for their BP, then fall back to Light Arts for mindless healing. Summoners just aren't capable enough as DDs pre-70 right now to be invited for that... I don't think /SCH will help that enough. I hope I'm wrong though, I really do.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Of course, in Galaxia's case, /NIN isn't the answer to everything for one reason:

Galaxia doesn't wanna level it.

But its pretty obvious /mage subs are a given on this one. Though the benefits of /SMN and /BLU seem rather questionable as they don't fall under White and Black Magic. I can see /SMN as a tank PT sub at endgame and if you want to play Scholar as a WHM, but given this job has some MP endurance already built in, would /BLM, /WHM and /RDM present better options?

/BLM's Conserve MP could kick in aside from SCH's casting JAs, possibly even stack with them. Divine Seal and Elemental Seal - and the ability so store extra uses of these abilities - would be amazing, I can already attest to that as COR by being able to manipulate and reset such abilities with Random Deal.

Then there's RDM's Fast Cast - BLMs love to sub this one for a reason and if Scholar has an adequate White Magic Spell list, this could make them quicker and more effective at it.

I'm thinking the original mages are going to be the best mage subs for the job. BRD, SMN, BLU and NIN might do interesting things, but job abilities are not a strong point among any of them.

Side rant: Seriously people, drop this "Heal bot" and "mindless healing" bullshit. How much people are carrying on about this is getting annoying, particularly considering TWO NEW and NEEDED HEALERS are being added to the game. You guys are carrying your misgivings about SMN and RDM - we have all heard enough of it..

The job is CLEARLY DESIGNED to facilitate a healer function was well as a enfeebling and nuking function. If it behooves you to support others, this job is clearly not worth the effort of you unlocking or leveling it. There are PLENTY of DD jobs in the game and if you want to play something that's really mindless, go play those.

[Galaxia]

Of course, in Galaxia's case, /NIN isn't the answer to everything for one reason:
Galaxia doesn't wanna level it.

Too right I don't!
If your a mindless drone that follows the set combos then more fool you!
At the end of the day I pay the monthy fee so I'll play as I like not how some jumped up drone tells me to.

Also as for SCH Nin will have little use if any.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Too right I don't!
If your a mindless drone that follows the set combos then more fool you!
At the end of the day I pay the monthy fee so I'll play as I like not how some jumped up drone tells me to.

Because /WHM and /BLM are real rebel subjobs. :rolleyes:

You're right, its your monthly fee and you should enjoy that monthly fee by playing as you see fit. However, don't be surprised if playing the job how you see fit results in a lack of invites or respect for you from others.

I do play my jobs how I see fit, but by the same token, I'll cover every angle I need to bring benefit to my PTs and my job alike. I don't play jobs to get to 75 ASAP, I play them to play them well and cover as many options as I can. There's no point in having a job at 75 and one subjob for it.

If maximizing my potential for each job by having more subjobs available is being a "drone," I'm a proud one.

Seriously, the /WHM and /NIN tirades here were retarded to start with. /WHM will be functional for this job and for damn good reason - it works. /NIN will have its place, likely not in EXP, but still a place in the job for other functions.

Also as for SCH Nin will have little use if any.

Given we don't know the full extent of scholar's abilities yet, how can you say that for certain? /NIN can pretty much be used by every existing job now, its uses are just as practical as those of /WHM to most jobs at various points in the game. "Shit is situational" as they say.

[Galaxia]

No your a Sheep not a Drone :p
Drones atleast have cool metal parts(Or so Sci Fi ch make out... I never got Sci Fi movies >.<)
I got Ninja to lv 37 and still don't use it. I hated lvlin it I found the playstyle far too simple and basic.
I was even asked to stay on as a Ninja for my static but they got no chance!
Smn and if SCH is anything like it's history then thats how I'll go.
everyone has a right to a choice but when they force it on others(not sayin u are but alot do) then they are tryin to assure themself and not others of there combo.
I was in a Pt with a DRG/BLM and he kicked ass. Not the most common combo but hey I don't care about getting from 1 to 75 in a week lol I play to have fun not to be demanded into somthing I don't wanna do.

If he wanted to be DRG/BLM why the hell not! He was havin fun. And if I suddenly log on and decide to be a SMN/DRG lol its not useful but if I was havin fun Why the hell not?

Play to game to have fun! Not but mindless and do as the crowd say!
Lets to honest I have respect for Jp playes but they are far too into the game
Game = Life to alot of them! FK NO!
Game = Fun! Nothing more Nothing less!

So if ppl wanna be mindless and do as demanded and do nothing but play then when ur family find you at the keyboard with ya brains blows on(Like the guy that died on Everquest - Watch the youtube video - Everquest kills) then play on!

If not HAVE FUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!
also chase Tarus!
------------------------------------------
Oh heres the video link
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hAQSkw_rj8w

[Coinspinner]

I made this incomplete chart for my own use. May as well share it though. Feel free to rework it as you like. Sheet 1 is a side-by-side for the mage subjobs, with emphasis on the BLM, WHM, and RDM. Sheet 2 is an ability list for Scholar, basically cut-paste from FFXIclopedia.

Just unzip it and open it in Excel.

I'll probably futz around with /SMN until level 10, then go /WHM till 20, then whatever is best at the moment. Don't have BLU and didn't care for NIN and SMN back in '04 but I doubt it'll be too much of a hindrance.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Good to see some people are still living in 2004. Cheers Galaxia. You go have "fun," just please don't impose what your idea of fun is on EXP PTs.

Well, we now know SCH gets Max MP Boost, so subbing SMN for that long term probably won't be doing much. Depending on how efficently SCH can use MP, Refresh may not be a big issue either. There's already a lot to love about subbing BLM or WHM for this job and I think /BLM will bring out the stronger damage.

There are a lot of spaces in the SCH spell list that /WHM, /BLM and /RDM can fill. SMN and BLU unfortunately don't seem to fill any of them. Seems overall that DNC is going to have wider subjob options than SCH.

[Yellow Mage]

Seems overall that DNC is going to have wider subjob options than SCH.

Last time I checked, they both had 19.

[Telera]

While I've never been one to see the point (nor have the time or even care to) in levelling every. single. subjob. a job could ever need, I also know that if there's a subjob I just cannot stand to level, then I won't level any main jobs that will need it often.

I hate ninja with a burning passion. I hate how it's treated as the alpha and omega because of shadows. I have a closet wish that SE would somehow destroy it as a sub or give Dual Wield to some other job as well.

But, since I hate it so, I accept that I will simply not ever level say, Thief or Warrior (not that you could pay me to). I don't see how /nin could have a use for Scholar, aside from perhaps rather specific situations. Traditional mage jobs will be the order of the day, probably more heavily whm or blm with rdm falling somewhere after.

If I go Scholar though, I'll probably just stick to whm sub since that character is first and foremost a Beastmaster and if people not looking for a sch/whm that day, it wouldn't bug me. And I'd prefer whm just as a personal preference, for some other healing capabilities.

[Galaxia]

Good to see some people are still living in 2004. Cheers Galaxia. You go have "fun," just please don't impose what your idea of fun is on EXP PTs.
Well, we now know SCH gets Max MP Boost, so subbing SMN for that long term probably won't be doing much. Depending on how efficently SCH can use MP, Refresh may not be a big issue either. There's already a lot to love about subbing BLM or WHM for this job and I think /BLM will bring out the stronger damage.
There are a lot of spaces in the SCH spell list that /WHM, /BLM and /RDM can fill. SMN and BLU unfortunately don't seem to fill any of them. Seems overall that DNC is going to have wider subjob options than SCH.

Good to see some people still don't have enough of a life not to get off the game =P
Go get laid ^.^ will do you the world of good

[Magoo]

I'm curious about what jobs the ninja-sub haters think have been pigeonholed into using ninja where it's not beneficial? People don't use ninja subjob just because everyone else says they should, there are good reasons that it is so popular. Calling someone a drone or a sheep just because they are using the most effective subjob for what they are doing doesn't make much sense, to put it nicely.

I'm sure all those summoners, white mages, black mages and scholars being forced by their parties to sub nin appreciate Galaxia championing their cause though.

[Karinya]

I think /nin haters are sometimes confused about whether they should blame SE for making /nin way too freaking good, or blame players for recognizing that /nin is way too freaking good and subbing it to jobs that it doesn't really fit other than the insanely overpowered shadows (mnk, drg, sam, drk, brd, cor, blu for example). War, thf, bst, and rng (and probably dnc) have some other legitimate reasons for /nin; although if shadows were balanced, it would be much less dominant and more situational than it is now.

I take the former position: shadows are too good (especially subbed, when they take over the whole game instead of "just" redefining the gameplay of one particular job) and that's SE's problem to fix, you can't really blame the players for using a lame-but-effective strategy.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

What I'm seeing right now is people favoring /MNK and using H2H. While I understand the reasoning behind it, single wielding a dagger still seems like faster TP than using H2H. H2H adds to the delay and they're trying to bring it back down with Martial Arts traits . You might get two Martial Arts traits in all under sub, right?

/WHM fell out of style right at level 5 with Drain Samba, so I'm still wagering on /WAR, /SAM and /NIN with more DW gear, Haste Samba and Haste Gear as being better long term options.

[Caspian]

What about scholars?

[Tsrwedge]

This ain't the dancer forum Omgwtfbbqkitten :P

[Ziero]

No your a Sheep not a Drone :p
Drones atleast have cool metal parts(Or so Sci Fi ch make out... I never got Sci Fi movies >.<)
I got Ninja to lv 37 and still don't use it. I hated lvlin it I found the playstyle far too simple and basic.
I was even asked to stay on as a Ninja for my static but they got no chance!
Smn and if SCH is anything like it's history then thats how I'll go.
everyone has a right to a choice but when they force it on others(not sayin u are but alot do) then they are tryin to assure themself and not others of there combo.
I was in a Pt with a DRG/BLM and he kicked ass. Not the most common combo but hey I don't care about getting from 1 to 75 in a week lol I play to have fun not to be demanded into somthing I don't wanna do.
If he wanted to be DRG/BLM why the hell not! He was havin fun. And if I suddenly log on and decide to be a SMN/DRG lol its not useful but if I was havin fun Why the hell not?
Play to game to have fun! Not but mindless and do as the crowd say!
Lets to honest I have respect for Jp playes but they are far too into the game
Game = Life to alot of them! FK NO!
Game = Fun! Nothing more Nothing less!
So if ppl wanna be mindless and do as demanded and do nothing but play then when ur family find you at the keyboard with ya brains blows on(Like the guy that died on Everquest - Watch the youtube video - Everquest kills) then play on!
If not HAVE FUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!
also chase Tarus!

When I pt for EXP the thing that makes them most fun is getting as much exp in as little time as possible. So if someone is dragging the exp of the pt down in the name of their 'fun' I'd be put off by it. When one person puts their 'fun' over the desires of the other 5 people in their PT, it shows me that they're selfish and I don't like to pt with those types of people.

And just because some people prefer to do their best in a game and make sure they have all their options available doesn't mean they don't have a life or are addicted to this game. It means they have *fun* doing the best they can for themselves and others.

Good to see some people still don't have enough of a life not to get off the game =P
Go get laid ^.^ will do you the world of good

Insults are cool.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I hit the wrong forum when I was thinking about dancer, so sue me :P

When I pt for EXP the thing that makes them most fun is getting as much exp in as little time as possible. So if someone is dragging the exp of the pt down in the name of their 'fun' I'd be put off by it. When one person puts their 'fun' over the desires of the other 5 people in their PT, it shows me that they're selfish and I don't like to pt with those types of people.

And just because some people prefer to do their best in a game and make sure they have all their options available doesn't mean they don't have a life or are addicted to this game. It means they have *fun* doing the best they can for themselves and others.

Galaxia is just holding on the naive idea that this game is about experimentation and trying to be unique when the game is actually about being flexible and ready for different situations.

I'm particularly interested in doing SCH/BST because I think its possibly the most perfect job to sub BST with short of RDM, WHM and BRD. It actually could be better than RDM/BST and WHM/BST. actually.

But does that have a place in an EXP PT or Endgame? Maybe, maybe not, but either way its not going to help my PTs and allies need all the time, so having /WHM, /BLM, /RDM and possibly /SMN could all be of benefit to them. /NIN could have some interesting tricks to it as well, we just don't know yet.

So let's not trick ourselves into thinking being too cheap and stubborn to level other subjobs is somehow magically tapping this bullshit choose-your-own-adventure MMORPG that you believe in but most people who play FFXI know doesn't exist. If you want to be creative, then you want to solo or make static parties. If you want to have efficient and fun EXP PTs, then you go with what WORKS or you don't get to enjoy that fast and fun EXP.

God knows I'll kick a RDM/NIN from my PT and ruin his "fun" for the sake of my PT's time.