So Summoners...

[Rain_Blade]

...how do you feel about the news on Summoner?


Summoner
New ability. Restore MP by elemental spirits. Ability may also be tied to days of the week and weather. There will be another annoucement on SMN later tonight.
New summons? There are plans to introduce new avatars. Beyond that, top secret.

Rain Blade's message: Notice that they bolded the "s" after avatar to confirm it's not just one.

I'm guessing when the avatar runs out of mp, you can summon your spirits and while having your spirits out, you're gaining MP while your spirit is casting spells. When you think you have enough mp or when you think your mp is full, you might go back to casting your avatars again. This is just a guess.

[Eiyoko]

Interesting speculation, but I don't see it happening.

Also, in ToAU they said they were introducing two new avatars, but we can't summon them. They're NPCs. We can hope for the ability to summon these though! =3

CAITSIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITH :D

[Malacite]

Cait Sith is a story character so far, I don't think we'll be getting him as a summon.

However, anyone who's beaten ToAU should have a good idea of what we can expect or at least hope for :3

Come on Alex > . <

[Eiyoko]

Come on Alex > . <

I dunno. Alexander doesn't even move...

[Feenicks]

My guess is that elemental spirits will still have the MP slip effect since there's a merit ability which reduces the perpetuation cost for those, however it may be something like each melee attack they do has a Damage Dealt (%) >> MP effect which returns MP to the SMN as it attacks or something. I think that they'd like it so that if your SMN has zero MP you're still SoL, but if you're low on MP then you have an option to try and get some back.

[Feba]

If Spirits regenerating MP is the best they can do, SMN is still screwed.

[Rain_Blade]

If Spirits regenerating MP is the best they can do, SMN is still screwed.


Summoner
New ability. Restore MP by elemental spirits. Ability may also be tied to days of the week and weather. There will be another annoucement on SMN later tonight.

We still have hope (that sounded so lame, but it's true).

[Feba]

yes, but unless that announcement happens to be "we're eliminating perpetuation costs lol." I doubt it will help much

[Taskmage]

Well, a use for spirits other than light was something that was missing, just not something anyone was probably hoping for in particular. Maybe it'll be some kind of channel-like ability where having the spirit out to match the weather or day will restore mp instead of draining it, or perhaps the spirit's mp will tick up as it's out and a JA will cannibalize that.

It's not an overhaul to BPs, but more mp for smn to be more free to use the BPs they have to their fullest is a good thing.

[Silent Howler]

I'm curious to know what else they have planned for summoner. Restoring MP by elemental spirits is nice but it's not impressive. I would prefer a change to help smn's before they run out of MP.

Edit: Most of this discussion so far has been about the part on elemental spirits, but also notice the parts that say "New ability" and "Ability may also be tied to days of the week and weather." I'm guessing this ability may reduce perpetual cost and possibly enhanced if day and weather effects correspond with the avatar's element.

It would also be great if there was an ability similar to what I mentioned above, except instead of reducing perpetual cost it enhances the avatar's overall performance.

[Tsrwedge]

Edit: Most of this discussion so far has been about the part on elemental spirits, but also notice the parts that say "New ability" and "Ability may also be tied to days of the week and weather." I'm guessing this ability may reduce perpetual cost and possibly enhanced if day and weather effects correspond with the avatar's element.
Read, then post! The new ability is recovering MP through the Elemental Spirits.

As an aside, I actually walked out of the conference room when they said that was all they were doing for SMN.

[Lmnop]

Don't tell me you would have been satisfied if they said you'll get to summon Bahamut or some other glorious oldschool Summon.

I hope the 2 new avatars they're hinting at are NPCs only. A new piece of shit avatar that you'll only summon for one ability -some- of the time is total BS. We have 9 avatars. And I only ever see 2. If I have them counted right, there are 68 BPs in the game (aside from 2 hours), and I can count the "useful" ones on one hand.

So yeah, I'm excited about the elemental spirit-> mp ability. It may be crap, it may not be. At least it's not "just throw another avatar at the idiot players to shut 'em up".

[Tsrwedge]

No, about the only thing that would have made me happy is something resembling an overhaul of the job. SE's said they don't like how it's being played, but they aren't doing anything about it.

[Raydeus]

Wouldn't it be easier if they simply allowed SMNs to rest MP while an avatar is out? :wasted:

[Silent Howler]

Read, then post! The new ability is recovering MP through the Elemental Spirits.

As an aside, I actually walked out of the conference room when they said that was all they were doing for SMN.
I did read, just misinterpreted. I didn't consider restoring MP to be an actually abitility, but just a new fuction implanted into spirits. But now you have a new suggestion to think about.

[Yellow Mage]

Summoner
New ability. Restore MP by elemental spirits. Ability may also be tied to days of the week and weather. There will be another annoucement on SMN later tonight.


Where's this announcement?

[Tsrwedge]

It was new avatars.

[Eiyoko]

Wouldn't it be easier if they simply allowed SMNs to rest MP while an avatar is out? :wasted:

Not a bad idea, but then perpetuation would be rather pointless. I like it better with the way perpetuation acts now.

[Galaxia]

wheres the original link the quote was taken from?

[Taskmage]

wheres the original link the quote was taken from?These two:http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Fan_Festival_2007_Live_Blog
Some hawt stuff in there (sux for SAM tho). RDM melee finally as intended?Here's a link of a lot to look forward to:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Fan_Festival_2007_Live_Blog#Presentation_B

Warrior
Ability that creates a benefit to WAR for claims. Something like a MNK counter that also stores TP. Used to help pulling. Instead of creating a new tank job, trying to imporove existing tanks.
Monk
Concept for MNK is to reduce TP given. Possibly adding something to Kicks - either a weapon skill or a battle stance that slows (kick?) attack speed and increases potency.
White Mage
At the time of the new expansion - new spell called Repose - a sleep spell. Also effective with scholar sub. Also want to add more teleport spells.
Black Mage
Recognize that skill chains are not happening and then no bursts. They are looking at lowering the resistance rate of skill chains in order to promote magic bursts. Also additions to transportations.
Red Mage
Considering magic to allow RDM to move up to front lines.
Thief
New JA "Accomplice" - it will steal a PT enmity and transfer to himself. Used with perfect dodge or to help a mage in troble.
Paladin
Considering a reflect spell to reflect damage from attacks blocked by shields.
Dark Knight
Design concept was attacker with magic. More dark magic specific spells for use in battle.
Beastmaster
Several new things. 1. Amount of HP with wait will be Greatly increased. 2. New pet command - Snarl - jug pet only order a pet to take all master enmity. A provoke for pets. 3. New pet food to cure all status aliments and lowering recast on reward (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Reward).
Bard
New songs and abilities. Command to select a single target for a song. Make bard busier by increasing numbr of casts.
Ranger
New ability - Velocity Shot - ranged attacks will be faster and more powerful and mele will be less powerful.
Samurai
Concept is profession able to build TP. Recent additions made SAM too powerful. There will be some adjustments. Additions may include ability to improve skillchains - such as making them faster or reducing resistance to skillchains.
Ninja
Possible new ninjutsu (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ninjutsu) with sneak effect. Possible new ability which temporarily reduces enmity and then restores it to previous amount.
Dragoon
Increase number of actions wyvern takes in battle.
Summoner
New ability. Restore MP by elemental spirits. Ability may also be tied to days of the week and weather. There will be another annoucement on SMN later tonight.
Blue Mage
New monster spells. Updates to come out first update of 2008.
Corsair
New rolls for 2 new jobs. Add effect to quick draw where they can charge it like the scholars. Updates to come out first update of 2008.
Puppetmaster
Considering new attachments and adjustments to existing ones. New automaton weapon skills

[Rain_Blade]

Wouldn't it be easier if they simply allowed SMNs to rest MP while an avatar is out? :wasted:

Honestly, I don't know why this is still recommended. I do understand that people want to still restore mp while your avatar is out, but there are other issues with that.

1) Parties don't want us to stand around and watch our avatar melee and fight. It's the only pet job where the master has no "talent" in melee or defense. Parties look at our huge MP for healing. They want us to be able to do something. If we rest while watching avatar fight, they still may see it as the same thing and want you to at least heal the party sometimes.

2) If the resting-while-avatar-is-out becomes true, when you're in a party you may/might be asked to heal. When you're buffing, you may want to get part of the buff too which means for you to cancel your resting and walk up to the melees (most of the time the melees are buffed or the WHOLE party is buffed so there's rarely a mage-only buff). Basically, it'll be too much hassle for the party's wants and needs.

3) Every 3 seconds we lose a certain amount of perpetuation which is 1 tick. Every 10 seconds of resting is 1 tick. So they are different ticks. I'll specify one as perptick and the other restick.

While resting, your character recovers a set number of Magic Points (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Magic_Points) every 10 seconds(tick (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Tick)).

That's a quote from ffxiclopedia. Anyways, if you were losing 8 mp every 9 seconds (which is 3 perpticks and 24 mp), had Clear Mind, and rested for one restick, you'd gain 27 mp meaning you'd restore 24 mp and gain 3 more. Also, each restick goes higher meaning the next tick would restore 29 mp instead of 27 again. hMP that you have obviously helps.

So the point of # 3 is, resting will save perpetuation but definitly not the MP costs of Blood Pacts.

4) In large groups, hopefully you won't be on the move too fast each time because most large groups want to go steady, but still keep it moving fast like Dynamis. Meaning you'd have to cancel resting, move, rest, hears command to move, cancel resting, move, rest, hears command to move, etc.

Edit: Grammer

[Telera]

As a summoner, I have one thing to say:

Color me totally underwhelmed. Our job is still totally fucked up and it's still more fun to duo with a bst and die repeatedly than be a cure bot for a party.

I find that sad, and so *not* what I had in mind when I bought FFXI and thought "Wow, I can be a summoner."

[Rain_Blade]

As a summoner, I have one thing to say:

Color me totally underwhelmed. Our job is still totally fucked up and it's still more fun to duo with a bst and die repeatedly than be a cure bot for a party.

I find that sad, and so *not* what I had in mind when I bought FFXI and thought "Wow, I can be a summoner."

I've heard about duoing with a bst is good, but I've never tried it yet. I might wanna try it.

[Telera]

It actually was pretty fun. Had to get the hang of it, and it was IC with all the fun and games that entails, but we came out pretty good in the end; he got his level and I'm halfway to mine.

Even the dying was less of a nuisance than lfg and conventional parties. I may just duo with him all the way.

[ForceVoid]

So, should we expect to see this new ability in the next update, January-esque?

[Greyfist]

As a summoner, I have one thing to say:
Color me totally underwhelmed. Our job is still totally fucked up and it's still more fun to duo with a bst and die repeatedly than be a cure bot for a party.
I find that sad, and so *not* what I had in mind when I bought FFXI and thought "Wow, I can be a summoner."

We don't even know any of the particulars of the updates yet, it's a bit premature to be underwhelmed. For all we know, the new summons are super-awesome and the elemental spirits recharge a SMN at 10 MP/tick while casting ancient spells on everything. I'm interested in seeing greater usefulness out of the elementals, and if they recharge my MP tank to let me keep my avatars out and fighting on a longer basis, nice bonus. More avatar fighting means more avatar TP means stronger bloodpacts means happier me.

They certainly could botch it, the updates could be trash. I wouldn't put it past them. But until the facts are in my hands, I'm reserving judgment.

[Rain_Blade]

the elemental spirits recharge a SMN at 10 MP/tick

Where is this from?

[Yellow Mage]

Where is this from?

For all we know, the new summons are super-awesome and the elemental spirits recharge a SMN at 10 MP/tick while casting ancient spells on everything.

:rolleyes:

[Rain_Blade]

Ah it was sarcasm =/ lol

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

No, about the only thing that would have made me happy is something resembling an overhaul of the job. SE's said they don't like how it's being played, but they aren't doing anything about it.

I'd be careful with that attitude, I had that attitude about BST and we've gotten a huge boost in the last two updates. They originally said our adjustments would come after other job got updates in WotG.

Apparently plans changed.

And for the record, BST hadn't seen real updates before August of this year, we only had things taken away prior to that. Summoner got the Blood Pact updates along side October 2006's RNG and SAM updates. Now RNG got another update and feels like its where it needs to be, so does BST. The end result of both updates is a notable improvement to both jobs.

If you're holding out hope that SMN will become the ZOMGBBQ Damage Dealer mage class that never has to cure people, just give up now, mages will always be needed for curing. But if you're patient, I'm sure there's more on the way.

And I, for one, DO want to see more available avatars. If the job updates prove anything, you can update and improve other jobs while adding new jobs to the mix. Same can be done for Avatars.

[Kitalrez]

Ok, with the latest message from S-E the original statement has been updated some:

elemental spirit MP absorption ability for the summoner

Now, this could be handled a number of ways. It seems less like a job ability than a new latent effect or spell for spirits though.

I'm suspecting either:

1. Dark spirit can now cast Aspir and effect the SMN if in range.
-[or]-
2. All spirits get an Aspir like spell that effects the SMN as well, which may or may not be stuck in with the horrible casting timers.
-[or]-
3. Spirits get an en-aspir effect which effects the SMN.

{Note to poor readers, I'M MAKING WILD GUESSES HERE BASED ON PREVIOUS UPDATES. THESE ARE NOT CANNON. See: "I'm suspecting..."}

All of these don't seem real useful at first blush. They are however in keeping with what S-E seems to adjust us toward. It'd be nice if we got a timer skill where we recharged mp with spirit out, say a once every 5 mins skill. I just doubt S-E is going to go that route. If you could stay up pretty much all the time, I think they'd decide we were overpowered again. S-E seems to like to make it so any ability we get will conflict with our ability to solo anything. Notice that our avatar accuracy unmerited is not really great, and isn't so hot even fully merited. I've tried to solo pots in sky that were EM at 73 and had runs where I missed every single Mountain Buster even at my summoning magic cap +20 skill. S-E doesn't like us to get skills that would help us out immensely solo as well as in a party. Which is why I suspect we'd have to be in range of the elemental to take advantage of any upgrades. As any of us who solo would tell you, this is not the ideal spot to be. If you can see the mob your pet is beating on, you're on the aggro list somewhere, and by the time you finish casting a replacement for the now dead spirit you've already added to your hate again.

What I was really hoping for in an adjustment was something more along the lines of upgrading the spirit AI to lower the threshold for the more aggressive version. Several players have already commented on this in other threads, but it bears repeating. My BLM is only 37, but when I get to just my Elemental Magic cap, I'm already near the soft cap in dmg for almost all but my most recently acquired nuke spells. After that point is reached, any INT or +elemental gear popped on really just adds to the damage without significantly upping it. Contrast that with SMN, in which the real soft-cap for AI isn't reached until I'm well above my Summoning Magic skill cap. I have to be above and beyond what is normally achievable for my job just in order to keep up with being a DD. I think this is really the main limiter to SMN and the reason we get stuck playing subjob healers for the first 40-70 levels. If the cap for our spirit AIs was more in line with what the softcap is for BLM's dmg on spells, we'd probably get more invites to actually DD. Spirits are already limited, we can't control what they cast or when, and they take a buttload of mp to keep out. It really shouldn't be behaving like a player controlled BLM, it's not, it's a completely expendable BLM. This sucker should be casting like it's one of those newbie BLMs you run into in Dunes who are dead more than they're not.

The way spirits are designed now, they're really only useful for long battles, like Kirin for example. Kirin takes forever and he moves. A mobile BLM who you don't care about keeping alive works for that battle. You actually have the time for waiting on that BLM to cast. However, the average battle in FFXI lasts less than a minute and a half, in this scenario, a spirit really isn't the most effective source of damage for SMN. I don't have all kinds of time for this thing to cast. If I'm on the right day, right weather, and right gear setup, he's still getting maybe 5-6 casts off before the mob dies. A BLM debuff followed by a WHM debuff or two isn't going to cut it. I need him to nuke. If it's going to limit itself to big nukes like Flare or Flood, those are already covered for in terms of aggro and casting time, the additional nerf of making them rare occurances in the casting list until a certain Summoning Magic threshold is reached is overkill.

I dunno, the way SMN seems to have been envisioned in the beginning, and the way it works now, this is an interesting spirit update, but it's just not the one that really is needed. In order for SMN to start using spirits and becoming more DD rather than /WHM for 70 lvls, you have to be willing to make battles like Kirin easier at the end. They don't seem willing to do this, and I suspect that's why we're stuck the way we are for now.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I think SMNs are, more or less, getting some form of a Spirit Link/Devotion job ability in which they draw MP from spirits they have summoned. A lot of job adjustments of late have been inspired by the functions of other jobs, so I think SE is simply going go continue such a trend. Nothing wrong with reusing a good idea.

SCH's Strategem "charges" are also going to be applied to COR, allowing CORs to "charge" thier QDs in the same way. RNG's Velocity shot is a hybrid of Berzerk and Hasso, granting a ranged haste effect and attack boost at the expense of +% Slow to melee weapons. PUPs Ventriloquy was re-engineered for BST's Snarl, same idea, lower recast timer and honestly, Snarl means more to BST than meritting Ventriloquy meant to PUP. Usually PUPs tank for Automations, for BST the pet tanks for them.

Basing an MP absorption ability on Spirit Link/Devotion would fit SMN without taking away from DRG or WHM, much like these other job tweaks don't take away from the original concept. SMN could sacrifice HP for MP restored by a spirit and DRG sacrifices HP to heal wyvern and cure its ailments or WHM gives up HP to give MP to an ally.

[Pteryx]

I think SMNs are, more or less, getting some form of a Spirit Link job ability in which they draw MP from spirits they have summoned. A lot of job adjustments of late have been inspired by the functions of other jobs, so I think SE is simply going go continue such a trend. Nothing wrong with reusing a good idea.

I see that you and I have come to the same conclusion here. After all, spirits do seem to have their own seperate MP for casting with. I figure it's probably going to be on a four-minute timer -- that seems to be SE's favorite recast lately -- but we wouldn't need it to be any shorter than that if it's strong enough. Also keep in mind that this would amount to free MP every time, seeing as we have the most disposable pets in the game. -- Pteryx

[Yellow Mage]

THESE ARE NOT CANNON.

They're not giraffe, either.

Tell us what something isn't doesn't improve our idea of what it is.

. . . :P

[Malacite]

Personally I thought that they'd make it so that if you summon the spirit that corresponds with the current day/weather you can sacrifice it for MP.

[Silent Howler]

elemental spirit MP absorption ability for the summoner
I got worried when I first saw this. If they were going with the Aspir Samba route with the Summoner restoring MP when the spirit attacks I imagine it wouldn't be very powerful either, giving us just enough MP to sustain a spirit but not ourselves. If this is what SE plans to do then they totally missed the point and we will await another Summoner update.

I think SMNs are, more or less, getting some form of a Spirit Link/Devotion job ability in which they draw MP from spirits they have summoned. A lot of job adjustments of late have been inspired by the functions of other jobs, so I think SE is simply going go continue such a trend. Nothing wrong with reusing a good idea.
This is probably the only way I can see it working out for Summoners, considering that they merits for reducing purpetual cost for spirits means they can't get rid of that completely.

[Kitalrez]

Mmmkay, so we got: The new summoner job ability “Elemental Siphon” has been introduced:
Elemental Siphon
Drains MP from your summoned spirit.
*Only effective on spirits summoned by the summoner.

{Edit} Ok, it's like Aspir. Used on Lightspirit with apollo's staff on darkday with 257 skill, got back 204 mp. It's a useful buttsaver, since it gets back enough to summon a real avatar and use one BP, but it doesn't stop the elemental draining mp at all, which kind of depletes the mp gain quickly if you don't instantly release. Not really the upgrade we were hoping to see, but useful in situations.