When do sub jobs become important?

[Silent Howler]

This is an interesting question, when do sub jobs become important? First off, no this is not a sub job vs no sub job post, or how long can you go without a sub job. This is more of an evaluation of which sub jobs you should use and when. There have been various discussions on what sub jobs work for what and how well they work, although a lot of the time they look at it as if a player was 75/37 and look at what the sub job has to offer as a whole. However, what may seem to be the "best" sub job for a particular job may not be the best throughout the entire career. Let's take Nin for example. The two main reasons why anyone subs Nin are for Dual Wield and Utsusemi. As a sub job, you won't be getting Dual Wield until level 20 and Utsusemi until level 24. So what reason is there to sub Nin before that point? Practically none.

There isn't a way to come up with a cut clean guideline for all job combinations, but you could look at what each job has to offer as a sub jobs and during what level ranges do they become the most effective.

[Murphie]

I'd say immediately. You can definitely see a difference in low level soloing with and without a sub job. But I guess it really starts to matter somewhere between 10 and 20? I don't know.

[Silent Howler]

You kind of missed the point of the topic. What sub jobs matter most between 10 and 20?

[KingOfZeal]

Minding what the actual topic is about (which ones when), I am a very strong advocate for /PUP from ~1-10. At that point, the level difference is very minimal, and if you've taken time to level PUP as a main and have a number of attachments, the puppet is extremely overpowered (Stoneskin, Flash, not to mention the plethora of attack and accuracy attachments, all available from level 1).

After that, it really does depend on the main job and the personal play style. For example, I sub whm to just about everything (even to bard in a meritpo) and I refuse to even unlock NIN for two reasons: I don't want to waste money buying tools (or buying the materials to make the tools, since with my woodworking I can make a few of them with no problem), and I really am disgusted with everybody's "/NIN" attitude. Sure, it has advantages, but it's simply not worth it to me. Maybe if/when I can get every other job up to 75, craft to 100, rank 10 in all cities, and otherwise "done" the objective goals in the game, I'll look into unlocking it.

[Murphie]

You kind of missed the point of the topic. What sub jobs matter most between 10 and 20?It depends? I'm not going to list every sub for every job.

[Mhurron]

You kind of missed the point of the topic. What sub jobs matter most between 10 and 20?
The ones that add the most to your main job and the activity you are currently doing or plan on doing.

[Omni]

You kind of missed the point of the topic. What sub jobs matter most between 10 and 20?

Umm, the topic says 'When do sub jobs become important?'.... :wtf:

And it all depends on what your main job is.

Typically, melee sub /war, /nin or /thf

Typically, mages sub /whm, /blm and later on /rdm, /smn and /blu

[Silent Howler]

Thanks to KingOfZeal for being the only one who saw what I was talking about.

I'm asking when should you use what sub job. And I'm aware of the fact that this is not targeted at any one specific job, but that leaves it open for discussion. Want to talk about sub jobs for Rdm? Go ahead. Want to talk about sub jobs for Mnk? Go ahead.

[Omni]

what job do YOU want to know about? theres so many different reasons to sub /xxx for each job.

So why dont you tell us what you want to know about and what job you play and we'll do our best to give you some info. Deal?

[Ellipses]

Perhaps a better way to ask the question would be "When do certain subjobs start to make sense or be effective?"

As the OP said, /NIN just doesn't make much sense before 24 (and even then its effectiveness is debatable). /BRD for the most part, for mages, won't make sense before 50. /THF doesn't offer much before 30.

It does depend on the main job, and the goal of the combo, but there are some subjobs that just generally don't add much before a certain level. Mostly, those discussions are already covered in each job's FAQ/subjob choice/guide threads, though.

[Murphie]

Why do that when there are already scores of threads on that topic? You seem to enjoy making topics with a shaky focus and a poorly worded OP. Then you blame everyone else for "doing it wrong." What's that all about?

[Kailea]

well your question is a bit broad then......


as for me being DRG

I subbed /WAR and till 25
/SAM and /WHM till 66ish (also subbed DRK some)
/BLU till 75 and beyond

[Omni]

You know, under each job's forum there is a sticky for sub job discussion.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

1-10 WHM and PUP seem to stand out as the strongest subjobs at present for getting past those early levels. BRD also works well to 10 and is decent to 20, though I'm personally still scratching my head at the people who think its great past 50, what it offers can be replaced by a lot of things now.

WAR is helpful to PTs even if it doesn't really help increase melee damage in the teens. Sometimes just having that provoke there is enough to make a difference, WAR starts to get better after 30 and especially after 50.

/NIN starts to see some use at 24, but that usefulness varies by job, I personally think its better for RNGs and THF than anyone else at that early of a level and even for RNG I went back to /WAR soon as I could use Berzerk. WAR/NIN doesn't catch up to WAR/MNK til 40ish, so I think /NIN is a wimpy sub for WAR before then.

/BLU isn't bad depending on the job, it would actually serve to make something like RDM or DRK more soloable for a little while. It lets you grab some nifty traits and spells, too. Once you can sub for Sound Blast and Cursed Sphere, its a nice sub for COR, too, since the MAB trait that combo gives affects Quick Draw and you can slide on some spells for more AGI.

/SAM seems to become good at 60 for melees and its looking to be nice at that level for Dancer as well, so that's on my to-list. Free TP - its obvious why DRKs, DRGs, RNGs and WARs would like it (though WARs are still whipped on /NIN).

/BLM seems to be restricted to RDM for the most part and I still think it plays a valuable role in traditional RDM play, its also a nice luxury subjob for COR, by "luxury" I mean if you have the healing support to justify it in endgames, otherwise the higher QD numbers are overshadowed by your inability to DD due to mage sub or support with magic otherwise. /BLM falls away from WHM at 50+ for /SMN, so hopefully Scholar can make greater use of /BLM.

For SAM, COR and WAR, /RNG is pretty good from about 30+ and gets even better at Slug Shot/Sidewinder in the mid-50s and Barrage at 60+. There are so many lovely ways to boost /RNG through these jobs and vice versa, they all play together so well.

[Silent Howler]

well your question is a bit broad then......
Yes, I'm aware of that. And I was looking for more general responses and not specific close-minded topics on specific jobs. But people are too busy being an ass about not having a perfectly worded OP.

[Necropolis]

In the 1-15 solo stretch I usually subbed /war for more attack power. Even with WHM and BLM.

The main choice comes if you're soloing or partying and at what level. When I soloed RDM to 37 to sub for my BLM I used /nin or /war. I liked the /nin with daggers for more enspell damage where as Dual Wield I trait is usually worthless for most Melee jobs that use it.

Subbing a melee job for soloing also adds more HP, Vit and other such stats that will help your endurance as opposed to subbing a mage job for those levels. It also boost your attack power marginally helping speed up solo kills a little bit.

When you take into account partying dynamics, your subjob choices might change. RDM and BLM will often sub /WHM for more support, NIN will sub /WAR for more enmity tools, PLD will sub /WAR for Provoke. The 'best' support job will often vary with level as more abilities/spells become unlocked.

When leveling BLM from about 40 to 75 solo I made use of /WHM, /RDM, and /NIN. And it varied from camp to camp and level to level which was the 'best'. Whm added more MP (doesn't matter if I'm one shotting gob pets though). RDM added more INT as well as fast cast and gravity. /NIN provided 3 shadows to let me get a sleep off in case of a resist.

Personally I liked /WHM earlier for blink/stoneskin but once I could get those spells from /RDM I automatically swapped so that I could make use of Gravity as well.

Back to the point of when it becomes important; no matter the sub you use, you're added stats to you character while also providing spells and abilites that you might find useful. So it's also a nice boost. But as for what the 'best' sub is is a dicussion onto itself. The most effective sub it dependent upon what you're fighting and at what level.

[Feba]

OP: stop reminding me of me.

[Armando]

DRG is a powerful DD sub from 10-29. At 10 you get Jump, and at 20 you get an Attack Bonus.

RNG is also powerful from 20-29 for DD jobs, offering 10 free Accuracy/R.Accuracy along with Sharpshot, Widescan, and access to Ranged WS.

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

I've found BST to be an excellent SJ for DD from 1-29. It easily increases the player's damage output by 25% and often closer to 50% while spreading hate out to assist the tank. Granted you must have BST leveled first, but if you do, it is a great way to boost the power of your DD job until you get better boosts from other jobs.

I recommend this combination for parties where you know you can find a good DC or EM pet. However, try to keep your pet from taking damage because it can be difficult to quickly find a replacement. Also your pet can help in the case of a link or even with pulling in a spot where new pets are plentiful.