If you must /mage: A Corsair Rant

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

OK, kids, if you want to play COR on the cheap, I can't stop you. If you want to skip /RNG and /NIN as subs (among others), you're only cheating yourself of reaching a higher potential with the job, but even those who play it /mage seem to do it pretty poorly from my observations. Lots of mistakes are made. I'll admit my COR/Mage setup is not perfect as of yet, there's a few pieces I should have that I'm working out.

Anyway, here's the major mistakes I've been seeing, particularly since I moved to a more populated server where these mistakes are more common:

Mistake #1 - Guns and Bullets

This is a big one I've observed.

I have seen numerous COR/Mages at 75 with AF1 guns or hexaguns and the level 22 Bullets. OK, if you're not shooting the gun at all and only doing Quick Draw, then a Corsair's Gun and a stack of Steel Bullets you never plan to shoot probably will not hurt you and, as a result, you'll have higher damage potential for Quick Draw. Quick Draw is calculated by the base damage of you bullet and gun - the higher, the better.

If you're too cheap to even Quick Draw as often as possible, you have no business being a Corsair at all.

Mistake #2 - AGI and MAB, where art thou? I'm drowning in MP here.

AGI is still important to the job. If you're going the /mage route, there's really no reason to be wearing full AF. The Earring and Ring slots in particular have a lot of potential to give you a big boost to AGI and should be favored slotsfor AGI as opposed to MP.

Yeah, yeah. More MP means more ability to cure. Its cute people still think that's all a mage sub is for. Even BRD (well, a good one) has to consider Stats vs. MP and where they want to put that at no loss in performance on both ends. You should make an effort to balance it out. Going with a pure MP setup is taking the easy way out.

RSE sometimes has options for MP and AGI unless you're a Tarutaru or, on the AGI end, a mithra. This is where you should look first. RSE2 also offers some good options as well. COR does not have a lot of MP options, but I can get a handsome amount of it from RSE items, particulary on the waist and legs.

Blue Cotehardie is indeed ugly as sin to wear, but you can grab both AGI and MP from it or the HQ version and in nice quantities of 4~5 AGI or 40~50 MP. Pick one.

Uggilieph Pendant and Moldavite earring will give you more quick draw damage potential as well, offering Magic Attack Bonus. These are options worth considering. The Pendant has +20 MP, too, but the MAB bonus there is activated via latent effect.

Why Magic Attack Bonus? It affects Quick Draw, that's why.

Mistake #3 - "/WHM Onry."

There are other mage subs of use here. /WHM has great utility, but its not everything to COR. RDM and BLU offer a lot as mage subs as well. Both offer Magic Attack Bonus and support options. Additionally, BLU offers stat bonuses and job traits while RDM offers Dispel and the ability to cure outside of a party. The gear setups differ slightly, /BLU will need a little more MND gear to pull off better cures, but these other subs are worth consideration.

Mistake #4 - Swords and Daggers

If you've committed yourself to full support, please stow the pirate aesthetics. I already talked about armor, let's talk about main hand weapons. Now, if you're out soloing as /Mage, use a Joyeuse or whatever you like to melee with, but in a Party, if you're a full support COR, you should consider elemental staves instead.

Light Staff for better cures, Dark Staff for resting MP and then all those other staves - key ones being Earth, Ice and Wind. The elemental staves, like MAB, do affect Quick Draw damage as well. Something else to consider having.

But again, if buying stuff bothers you, you really shouldn't be playing the second most-expensive job in the game. If you came to play "Dress up like a pirate" just go cosplay a pirate or something, the aesthetic COR is no more or less annoying than the female WHM who wears a corsage and event gear in PT to look pretty.

[Callisto]

So far from 1 to just about 73 I've found the occassion to use /mage(usually /whm) twice: from 1-15 solo, and just the past 3 nights while solo/duo working on Coffinmaker(it broke last night!).

I have seen an absurd # of 70+ /WHM CORs using AF1fugginPANTS!!! though, and that drives me insane. War Brais are ridiculously cheap, like 5-10k on most servers, I got the HQs for only 80k.

Side rant: Never, ever using /NIN again if I can help it. The loss of RAcc is absurd compared to /RNG, and I can't figure out why. Yes I know I'm missing Acc Bonus II, but really I'm only missing out on about 12~ RAcc since I go from Acc Bonus II/Gun Belt to offhanding a Trailer's. Last night I went from hitting most Slugs in XP to hitting maybe about 6-10 the whole night, out of about 60, with more than +50RAcc in gear, Squid+1, and Hunter's with a friggin RNG in the party.

I would've been better off to just /WHM and play it like a BRD.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I'm fortunate that I don't have to /NIN much these days as my lady is a BRD and we pretty much always go about meriting together, but I still advocate getting a peacemaker and being willing to pull as /NIN when needed. When you're pulling and sleeping full-time, you don't melee save for the odd slug or detonator to scare off greedy rival BRDs.

/NIN for pure DD purposes you will feel a huge loss in performance. So for COR, I use it purely for pulling or skill-up/weaponbreak purposes.

For post-30 EXP, I've never found a need to be /mage, endgame and solo I have found a need for mage subs. I just recently finished /BLU and its a damn sexy subjob to have around for COR. You can possibly get various bonuses from /BLU like +5 STR, AGI or MND, Magic Attack Bonus, Auto-Regen, Clear Mind and Beast/Undead Killer and/or +20 MP from set spells, all depending on how you choose to spend your set points. You also get Vorpal Blade, but its likely better felt with a Martial Analace and I'm not too keen on parting with my Joytoy.

Only cons are somewhat low healing capability without a MND build and the inability to heal outside your party, but I've found it pretty fun and useful otherwise.

I'm currently working out /SAM toward RNG and Dancer, as well as for PVP COR, but /RDM is next on my list and being a RDM in my Taru life, I know the benefits it offers me.

[Menelaus]

I hate /whm on cor i stopped cor at 50 because i became broke after the gun belt and all the bullets and whatnot. I took brd to 75 and i refuse to /whm unless im on a mp based job or bst for reraise. Like you said might as well be playing brd and i had enough of that.
I have all the mp gear anyone could want but that gets old. Why let someone else do all the @ss kickin when you can do a little yourself. I do believe in doing your best to fill slots for purpose and not for fancy apearance. That comment about the whitemage at the end of your post was hilarious..
by the way this is probably covered elsewhere but whats the max anyone has done with quickdraw?

this is my impression of me in a linkshell.......


:evil:L:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :vent: :cool: :rolleyes::rofl: :wasted: <-drk



:o <me

[Callisto]

I think the max documented QD was upwards of 400. I personally have pulled 276 w/ HQ ice staff and weekday bonus proc. IIRC, the QD formula was:

[(((Gun D + Bullet D + 5(w/ AF hat)) * 2) * MAB/day bonus]

Looking at this, the max Gun + Bullet D could be 112, 42 from Corsair's Gun and 70 from Steel Bullets. Added w/ AF Hat bonus it'd be 117 base, x2 is 234.

The max MAB possible for COR from gear in ideal circumstances would be 28:

Republic Circlet(5)
Moldavite Earring(5)
Novio Earring(7)
Uggalepih Pendant(8)
Denali Kecks(3)

Added to 15 from an HQ staff, you'd have 43 MAB, giving:

234 * 1.43 = 334

Tack on an optimal day + double weather proc and you get another .30 bonus

334 * 1.30 = 434

If my math looks off or I'm wrong on the formula let me know, but that's the most that I can see being possible.

Edit: I forgot that you could sub BLM for MAB II...so max MAB would be 67:

234 * 1.67 = 390

With day/weather:

390 * 1.30 = 507

Moar edit: Sorry for contributing to derail, BBQ. I can copypasta this post to another thread if you'd like.

[Armando]

Callisto: ele staves don't add MAB. They're a separate multiplier. That and I'm pretty sure you can have more MAB than that if you get a BLU to buff you.

[Menelaus]

So...... the answer to the QD question was : 434? every minute not bad!

[Armando]

You won't see that kind of damage on every Quick Draw as long as you're depending on day and weather.

[Callisto]

Ahh thanks Armando, forgot about that, and yeah I was just trying to find the absolute max under ideal circumstances.

*ninja edit* staff before MAB, never mind. I've only had 2 cups of coffee so far today, ignore most of what I say. ^^;

I'd say if you are doing something like Kirin/JoFort solo, etc where you are using mostly QD for damage, using Moldy/Uggy Pendant/Denali pants, Auster's and an otherwise AGI build, aim for 300~ a shot, that's a pretty respectable target without going batshit crazy on MAB gear and relying on day/weather bonuses.

[Menelaus]

I really hate working for the government everytime i want to look up how to obtain equipment or watch all the cool vids or see cool screens i get shafted by a filter on this crappy network.
Guess ill just make a list of the equips and go home and ffxiclopedia it up.

Obrigado peeps

[Omni]

I was asked to go /whm and then the brd asks me why im not shooting as much.

Gee, I just lost a shit load of r.acc and you're not giving me prelude so maybe I dont like throwing bullets away just for the sake of shooting, ya dig?

I'd be sitting on 175%+ tp and would still miss 3-4 slugs in a row.

/whm gets a thumbs down from me.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I forgot Mistake #5 - Melee gear mish-mash.

Its all well and good to keep some melee gear on you for duo and trio situations, but one should consider a logical MP build. If you're not meleeing, melee gear serves little purpose. Melee rings should be replaced with AGI rings, body piece with Blue Cotehardie unless you're lucky to have Denali body (and legs, for that matter).

I see Neck, Waist, Back, Hands, Feet and body as all having MP options for COR. Since Crimson Finger Gauntlets and Greaves offer dual benefits for COR, these are nice to have and fairly simple to get with a sky LS, but you should consider filling those slots with RSE or RSE2 otherwise.

If Enmity is a concern, I suppose you could use AF legs to that end, along with Peacemaker and Staff Strap for a total -7 enmity. Plus staff strap gives +20 MP. Peacemaker is nice for unresisted Quick Draw, but it kinda sucks for QD damage, though, which is something to keep in mind.

At any rate, melee gear is questionable in a pure support setup, if you're gonna commit to COR/WHM, it should be done with a balanced AGI/MP/MAB setup. AGI and MAB gear like Drone Earrings and Moldavite are easy to macro around, but macroing out MP gear always comes at a loss of MP, which isn't good unless you're trying to trigger the latent on Ugglieph Pendant or something of that nature.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for WS under /Mage or /NIN, the August update did indeed make the Detonator Weaponskill much more favorable, particularly if you have a Martial gun handy. Before SE adjusted the modifiers on Detonator, the weaponskill was pretty much a joke, but with some nice attack buffs and 200%+ TP, you can dish out some nice damage with it now.

So under any sub Detonator is proving to be our most accurate weaponskill with respectable damage. I still kinda chuckle at it as RNG, though.

But then, /Mage would mean kicking back and soaking up Ballads if you had a BRD. In most cases, even some endgame ones, I still favor /RNG. But for stuff like sky farming and others, I'll be willing to /mage if asked.

[Karinya]

Callisto: ele staves don't add MAB. They're a separate multiplier. That and I'm pretty sure you can have more MAB than that if you get a BLU to buff you.
Actually, ditch the BLU; FFXIclopedia claims BLU's MAB buffs (Amplification and Memento Mori) are self-only. Get a SMN with Diabolos instead, for Dream Shroud.

A BRD for stat etudes might be helpful too.

Do sea obis work on QD? They'd be a guaranteed way of getting day/weather bonuses instead of relying on luck for them.

[Armando]

Actually, ditch the BLU; FFXIclopedia claims BLU's MAB buffs (Amplification and Memento Mori) are self-only. Get a SMN with Diabolos instead, for Dream Shroud.They are, but with Diffusion you can turn one buff into an AoE buff. Selfish? Yeah, but the question was highest possible QD, not highest practical QD ;o Forgot about Dream Shroud though.

As far as I know, no base stats affect QD so Etudes would be pointless.

Can't speak for experience but I'd assume Sea Obis work. Don't see why not.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

To my knowledge the Obis work on the word of the CORs that have them, I've not gotten around to them since I have the hurdle of two gorgets to complete. I really need to get some UFOs downed.

[LilithAngel]

Yar, unless the BLU has Diffusion and wouldn't mind popping it for your QDs. :rolleyes:

I was asked to go /WHM to a merit party one time; I have never felt so dysfunctional in my life. :wasted: I never liked the idea of it on COR; I've always gone /NIN or /RNG. I can also see the difference between those two subs as well, as that B Marksmanship skill really hurts on /NIN at times.

Screw /WHM. /RNG (or if ya really need it, /NIN) all the way. :thumbsup: Now if only I could break my Gun o' Trials, I can move on to Detonator. Really <3'in my Martial Gun atm.

[wrongfeifong]

You know there are times where /whm /brd are very useful.

I still found Mana burn wise /brd is extremely useful, it doesn't take a genius to Pull and sleep right off the bat + the 1mp/tick might not seem much but it does save your BLMs group as some regen slowly might get the benefit of it (like galka).
And oh please, don't tell me you want to Overdmg your blm in a mana burn. (you can try etude yourself with +agi for QD as well)

While
Caediva mire groups, /whm is also appropiate. because for one, if you are pulling you should know by now, you don't need /nin or /thf what-so-ever, you can pull very effectively on imps. While You don't always get a BRD with you, corsair is actually the best class for pulling there next to brd. while /rng wise, you also get alot amensia hence Barrage + WS will get alot delay and you will found yourself sitting there spamming the button instead of running around doing what you suppose to. (unless you want your thf go pull being lazy).

While in the mire, people can't afford ECHO drop! (don't expect people bring 6 stacks of echo drop and use it whenever they silence!), hence /whm is very useful and might even save you group as camps are so limited you might find yourself camp on top spawns. + Alot RDM never level /whm. Not to mention, they love "i only have /blm, don't invite me and ask me to change", i have 3 chr leveled beyond mires, i have seem RDM/BLM main heal+only healer far too much while "choices are limited" Stick with it. (god i even have once got a smn saying "i don't have silena...")

Also you won't have time to blow you "awesome" dmg while QD seem to have a high resistence on imps as well (just to me when i have almost best agi gear of that level range) often enough, you would found yourself doesn't get to shoot alot, then why not sprend your time more on buffing? (i mean come on a delay on double atk might cost your team to lose 1-2 extra attack and a DRK losing 1 atk is almost same as you losing 1 shot) as it is already hard enough being amensia 50% of the time. Not like dealing 1-2 hits will even help your party overall with your "MATCHLOCK" while if you are pulling you will find yourself "Not even in the position to shoot" assuming you go out to "Hunt" (pull) as you just trainned that imp over.


Meanwhile, i do not agree on BBQ for saying "hexagun" sucks. Hexagun shoot roughly almost twice faster then matchlock can. Not everyone can afford a MATCHLOCK+1. Its like saying everyone must have K-club for leveling. While the lacks of guns making is already bad. Hexagun is actually a better choice for pre-coffinmaker (*cough* i got my coffinmaker... i don't like it personnally hate its slow delay (its not a great gun for soloing, hexagun is better overall)).

While BBQ doesn't seem to account alot on the "buffer" side of corsair's job. Hexagun make your buffing life alot easier if you want "awesome" DD. (don't argue with me BBQ i have both matchlock and hexagun, i found hexagun is better overall because of the fast trigger and "TP building" overall. I don't like to being stuck there triggering my "slow" gun while my phantom roll is already finish recast (its a waste of time and it mess up my 4 ROLLS timers). Not to mention, Hexagun is better for pulling overall.

And people who matchlock are people who are stingy in my option. Hexagun clearly use more bullets (not to mention better for building Marksmanship (not everyone started with 6 level 75 jobs:P)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I still found Mana burn wise /brd is extremely useful, it doesn't take a genius to Pull and sleep right off the bat + the 1mp/tick might not seem much but it does save your BLMs group as some regen slowly might get the benefit of it (like galka).
And oh please, don't tell me you want to Overdmg your blm in a mana burn. (you can try etude yourself with +agi for QD as well)

Its nice, but its still not needed. You can get chain 11 to 13+ off puddings with or without a BRD or WHM subjob. I don't trust BLMs to cure me or each other at all, so I just go /NIN for extra protection. I have /WHM and /BLU I can go with if I wanted to, I just don't want to.

Caediva mire groups, /whm is also appropiate. because for one, if you are pulling you should know by now, you don't need /nin or /thf what-so-ever, you can pull very effectively on imps. While You don't always get a BRD with you, corsair is actually the best class for pulling there next to brd. while /rng wise, you also get alot amensia hence Barrage + WS will get alot delay and you will found yourself sitting there spamming the button instead of running around doing what you suppose to. (unless you want your thf go pull being lazy).

You do notice that most of your targets have wings in Mire, right? And imps kick out silence just as much as they do amnesia. /WHM will get beaten senseless for pulling and silenced. Now, you can tell me that you could stand out of AoE silence or just bring echo drops. Guess what, I have a ranged weapon, I don't have to stand next to the mob and get my WS locked out by Amnesia. So /RNG still works.

At least you understand we can pull except, well, you're pulling with a hexagun and not a peacemaker, which is going to make you a poor puller against BRDs.


While in the mire, people can't afford ECHO drop! (don't expect people bring 6 stacks of echo drop and use it whenever they silence!), hence /whm is very useful and might even save you group as camps are so limited you might find yourself camp on top spawns. + Alot RDM never level /whm. Not to mention, they love "i only have /blm, don't invite me and ask me to change", i have 3 chr leveled beyond mires, i have seem RDM/BLM main heal+only healer far too much while "choices are limited" Stick with it. (god i even have once got a smn saying "i don't have silena...")

If your PT isn't willing to bring echo drops, they shouldn't go to Mire camps. Echo drops are a level 20s alchemy synth, easy and cheap to make.

RDM/BLMs have no business in a Mire PT without /WHM, they shouldn't be getting invited at all if they're going to gimp thier way to 75. /WHM is a standard and easy subjob to complete, if you don't have it for your RDM, I just won't invite you if that's what I need. RDMs aren't exactly the low population class they used to be.

That said, most RDMs DO level /WHM.

Also you won't have time to blow you "awesome" dmg while QD seem to have a high resistence on imps as well (just to me when i have almost best agi gear of that level range) often enough, you would found yourself doesn't get to shoot alot, then why not sprend your time more on buffing? (i mean come on a delay on double atk might cost your team to lose 1-2 extra attack and a DRK losing 1 atk is almost same as you losing 1 shot) as it is already hard enough being amensia 50% of the time. Not like dealing 1-2 hits will even help your party overall with your "MATCHLOCK" while if you are pulling you will find yourself "Not even in the position to shoot" assuming you go out to "Hunt" (pull) as you just trainned that imp over.

If you're pulling as COR, you're not DD at all, and you're using Light Shot to stage most fights. Its really not worth trying to dispel imps at 68 to 72ish, but afterward, landing QDs on them is pretty easy if you're doing so for damage purposes.

Addtionally, if you are a serious DD COR, you have a Joyeuse on you by 70 and likely don't spend much time punishing yourself with Mire PTs. Seriously, I have seen a mire PT on Titan or Odin in six months and I still PT often. People hate the camp and have moved on to better ones. Hell, people will even populate Mount Z and do trolls on Odin, couldn't get people out of Thickets on Titan.

So, these camps don't bring up the Amnesia issue and instances of Silence are much more rare. Mire is pretty much just an EXP camp now and I don't know many people that go there for that now, some just stay around Mount Z a bit longer or do an actual RoZ/CoP camp (shocking, I know).

Meanwhile, i do not agree on BBQ for saying "hexagun" sucks. Hexagun shoot roughly almost twice faster then matchlock can. Not everyone can afford a MATCHLOCK+1. Its like saying everyone must have K-club for leveling. While the lacks of guns making is already bad. Hexagun is actually a better choice for pre-coffinmaker (*cough* i got my coffinmaker... i don't like it personnally hate its slow delay (its not a great gun for soloing, hexagun is better overall)).

OK, I'll clarify.

At 72+ Hexagun really sucks, before then its barely passable. Coffinmaker, Martial Gun, Corsair's Gun and Peacemaker are all available to you. I still personally prefer the Coffinmaker and Peacemaker combo. While Martial Gun makes Detonator a sweeter weaponskill than it once was before the August update, it still pales next to slug shot and I don't like holding back for 200 TP to get the most out of Detonator when I can just fire off Slugs at 100 and they'll most likely land regardless of the gun I use.

Peacemaker is a must if you're serious about pulling. There's just no questioning its speed. Its better than Hexagun for pulling.

For soloing, no gun should even be a deciding factor, they're all bad for soloing. For soloing, if you want to have any success with it, you want a Joyeuse or Mercurial Kris for fast TP gain. COR/Mage TPing with gun isn't effective.

While BBQ doesn't seem to account alot on the "buffer" side of corsair's job. Hexagun make your buffing life alot easier if you want "awesome" DD. (don't argue with me BBQ i have both matchlock and hexagun, i found hexagun is better overall because of the fast trigger and "TP building" overall. I don't like to being stuck there triggering my "slow" gun while my phantom roll is already finish recast (its a waste of time and it mess up my 4 ROLLS timers). Not to mention, Hexagun is better for pulling overall.

What exactly does any gun have to do with buffing? Again, any DD COR at 70+ with a lick of sense is going to TP with a Joyeuse, but neither Joyeuse of Guns have thing to do with buffing. I can keep four buffs going just fine regardless of what weapon I'm using. Its not like DD blinds me for watching the status bar.

And again, Peacemaker is better for pulling at 72+ plus. If you want to be a puller before then, hexagun is fine, but it is by no means the "best gun." Not even close.

And people who matchlock are people who are stingy in my option. Hexagun clearly use more bullets (not to mention better for building Marksmanship (not everyone started with 6 level 75 jobs)

You have no right to talk about others being "stingy" - you have proven to be the epitome of playing on the cheap. Moreover, matchlock deals more damage and returns more TP per shot. So you're wasting bullets for less TP returns than the guy that uses a matchlock, he's being more efficient with his gil and using his bullets more effectively. Of course, you profess to only fire off a bullet or two per fight.

If the intention is DD, Matchlock and Shark Gun are the better guns before the ones at 72+. I'm not going to take much issue with a Shark Gun user at 75 so much as I would a Hexa/Matchlock user at 75. I've actually seen worse. Darksteel and Trump Gun users at 75 exist too. Boggles my mind, honestly.

[wrongfeifong]

You know talk is different then being said. I was talking about "being stingy before i even played corsair" Then i leveled corsair with full out shooting and almost best gear. You don't have to bring old history back out of those post i said.

Beside there are also few points i like to point out.

1. Imps exp are always better then other places from range 64-73. The reason being is imps give extra xp and they are faster for chains. Meanwhile, on your server you might move to mount Z or other area, imps are very popular on Asura still. I haven't come to a PT that doesn't tell me to pull yet.

2. Please note when i am talking about MIRES, its 73 below. Peace maker might be godly for pulling (and i know it since i did brough one for ridicious large amount for no reason (if you are that good remember what i said you should know this). Peace maker is a lvl 72 gun. By that time, you are DONE with the areas i mention basically. Meanwhile, i still prefer hexagun because merit pt will make you pull for sure, and by pulling you build up TP and pulling fast = allow fast TP gainning as well hence you can slug shot once in awhile (just doing some DD for the heck of it) I don't make 50+ chains all the time sitting around doing nothing.

3. The delay of the gun lock you in for the duration of delay. The longer you are locking on the monster the more time you are wasting overall that's what i mean about duration problem. WHEN YOU ARE IN THE MIRES (72 LESS). Pulling is important, and in most case you will be in the position to pull. The less time in delay = more shot you give-in. Also hexagun is fastest you can find below 72 hence make it more versatile overall.

BBQ note one problem with you whenever you trying to reply my post is, you NEVER look in the limitation of the subject. You are RANTING about /mages when most /mages occur well below 70. Items like joyeuse are almost impossible to get for players like me who have absolute NO 75 characters and yet corsair is NEVER limited to only veteran players. (on my server i can count over 50 new corsair that doesn't have another job beyond 50+).

Joyeuse might be superb for TP, but do you know how hard it is to get one on a server like Asura? I tried to camp it and there was 20 people waiting for 4 hour just to get its spawn time. While knife like mercurial Kris is 3-5 millions alone.

While peace maker is a level 72 weapon that NO ONE CAMP "check FFXI-ah.com" its hard enough to find people to camp specific stuff alone already. Please keep in mind that ... corsair guns are very very very underdemanded. I have yet see the level 75 corsair gun even sold on AH even once. Marital gun is already rare as it is. Hexagun and matchlock are very rare as well. I do NOT blame players using af1 because none are ever on sell on Asura. You are ranting about people using Af1 when you didn't realize limitation on these players.

BBQ please just aware limitation of other players, not everyone is lucky like you. They don't get a gun drop when they demand it. That's always the problem with you when you try to counter my ideas. You just never look into the levels of the subjects i am talking about.

P.S Oh yes.. BBQ about pulling, /whm will never get silenced. Because when you pull to the group the IMP have 0TP so the first 3-5 sec = your melee buff. Then you run to your caster for next buff, then you leave to pull another (or slugshut with the pulled TP). Then do melee buff#2 again on the melee group with new imp (still 0TP).

also RDM are very picky, i have always met with people who tell me "MAIN CURE NO THANK" or "/whm NO THANK", i don't know about you but i have even seek over 10 hours once because no healers around.

[Callisto]

P.S Oh yes.. BBQ about pulling, /whm will never get silenced. Because when you pull to the group the IMP have 0TP so the first 3-5 sec = your melee buff. Then you run to your caster for next buff, then you leave to pull another (or slugshut with the pulled TP). Then do melee buff#2 again on the melee group with new imp (still 0TP).


You'll still get silenced. A lot. If you pull quickly enough for higher chains and Light Shot @ camp, the one the party already has will likely silence you at some point. And you're definitely going to get silenced when you run in to put rolls on the melees, this will happen every other fight at the least if you're keeping up on your rolls.

[wrongfeifong]

its true, but personnally i never did have that problem myself. Maybe its because the level range is short. Maybe just my luck i usually run back "hit "XXX roll" and run back to the mage and light shot the imp (because imps always slow). Then i run back for the double-up.

I just /whm only few time because rdm rep came with /blm saying "i don't have /whm". While i also have cases where the smn just "Run up to fenrir buff" and say "i don't have echo drop" hence /whm was very useful in my end while i pull.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Here's another problem I've been seeing: Luzaf's Ring.

A lot of CORs clearly don't know this is a macro piece ONLY. Its not a full time ring unless you're only going to manaburn for the rest of your career, which I doubt most CORs will do.

Take a hint from our BRD counterparts - thier flutes are shorter range, harps are wide range, but seldom used.

Luzaf's Ring is our Harp equipment. Use if for buffs you want to hit wide range, but don't use it for anything else. A WHM or RDM on the backline doesn't need Evoker's or Healer's Roll overwritten by Chaos or Fighter's Roll.

My Phantom Roll and Double Up macros are where alot of my Ring /equip macros come into play. If I do use something I want to hit everyone with - like Corsair's Roll, for example - I macro in Luzaf's Ring and place a /wait in PR and Double up macros and then /equip Ring1 "Rajas Ring" to replace it, ensuring my other buffs go back to standard range when I need to use them.

[Selphiie The Enchantress]

Being mostly a endgame player i will never not come /mage to a HNM, trying to shoot something at say Cerberus is almost as bad as picking up a rock and throwing at it for 5 damage.

I always throw out Emergency Erases/Paralynas/Silenas/etc when they are needed, and with the MP Build I had before my Corsair was retired I had close to 500MP for backup curing.

I DID use Quickdraw like Earth shot to Enchance A Slow II and stuff, and seeing the 200 Damage on something like Tiamat was nice too.

Just because people do COR/MAGE doesnt mean they are poor players and are bad at the job like you say.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I will point out, as I have offline, that COR's endgame functions are multi-faceted. Mage subs are more practical for certain endgame functions, but depending on thier role in things like Dynamis, Salvage and Limbus, they may be able to openly use /RNG, /NIN or even /WAR subs again.

For merits, /RNG, /NIN and now /DNC are just superior for whatever role you need to fill.

If you need to pull - /NIN + Peacemaker
If you need to heal - /DNC + Joyeuse
If you need to melee - /RNG or /WAR + Joyeuse + Martial Gun/Coffinmaker/Shark Gun

For EXP levels, /mage has a place in the low levels and as a situational subjob, but /RNG is the best overall sub here, especially so at 60 after Accuracy Bonus II and Barrage become active.

For Gods, HNMs or Wyrms - COR/Mage is perfectly acceptable.

Again, my rant isn't about /mage per se, but more to the end that COR/mage often isn't utilized properly in the EXP and endgame levels and also that it robs the job of part of what makes it distinctly unique from BRD - its higher capability for melee. COR/Mage often favors too much MP and not enough AGI to make thier QDs effective.

[LilithAngel]

I've found the balance of MP to DD gear for COR to be my main stickler point here. I seemed to have put together a good QD set, as evidenced by the multiple instances of 200-250+ damage on the likes of Kirin and Ouryu from the appropriate elements, and when I put my COR through the EXP Machine, /RNG certainly puts up solid numbers. However, the melee part...

It's mainly because I don't have a Joyeuse, and prolly won't get one for a very very long time. I have a Phantom Fleuret, and that's doing me good for now, but it's certainly not a main option for a melee set up, and I also need to work on my melee gear set more. As of right now, I'm mixing and matching from my DRG and BLU sets to patch together a decent COR melee set (W.Turb or Cor Hat, depending on the situation, SH, Dusk hands and boots, Pln. Legs, Rajas/Uthalam, Brutal/whateverIcanfind, Martial/Iron, Specs, Amemet +1, Potent), however, I feel there's a lot missing.

Uthalam is a permanent addition to my arsenal. The ranged ring was very (and I mean very) tempting, but I'm more of a melee-oriented player than anything else, so I had to go Uthalam. Rajas, considering the previous sentence, is also perma-equipped. The rest... ...could use some improvement.

I'll think more on this later. Time for ZZzzZZzzzzzZZzz nowz.

[Callisto]

I've actually been tossing around coming /BLM to the next Kirin I do, my LS finally has enough RDMs that I got to use COR at the last one, and I was pretty pleased with the results.

I just for the most part finished my QD set with the addition of an Ugly Pendant last weekend, with HQ staves my base QD is now 303(as /RNG, without native MAB traits), I also now have a Furin Obi to take advantage of the Wind weather that happens often at Kirin for another 10%. I was debating on /BLM for extra MAB, as my QDs actually do as much as my weaponskills vs. Kirin(Detonator hit for 260~, Slug for 280~). I do still actually like shooting @ Kirin though so I'm still kind of hard-pressed to go as something other than /RNG.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I'm still iffy about BLM, its not really on my list of subjobs to do (or in my case, re-do as I run two characters). I even consider BRD fringe as a sub, but have put priority on levelling it over BLM.

/BLM is basically just for QD epeen and offers no support functions to a party or alliance. RDM and BLU sub can give MAB and support, so after /BRD is knocked out, /RDM is next as /BLU is done.

[Callisto]

I feel the same way to a point, I wouldn't have leveled /BLM for COR at all had I not already had it leveled, but generally there are enough mages at our runs that my 240MP worth of Cures might not be as worthwile as a 24% boost to damage output, when MABII could potentially put me as high as 400+ per QD before Wizard's Roll is even brought into play, that is high enough output to be viable 'DD' and not just epeening.

[Kylen]

I've actually been tossing around coming /BLM to the next Kirin I do, my LS finally has enough RDMs that I got to use COR at the last one, and I was pretty pleased with the results.

I just for the most part finished my QD set with the addition of an Ugly Pendant last weekend, with HQ staves my base QD is now 303(as /RNG, without native MAB traits), I also now have a Furin Obi to take advantage of the Wind weather that happens often at Kirin for another 10%. I was debating on /BLM for extra MAB, as my QDs actually do as much as my weaponskills vs. Kirin(Detonator hit for 260~, Slug for 280~). I do still actually like shooting @ Kirin though so I'm still kind of hard-pressed to go as something other than /RNG.
I always go /BLM to Kirin with a QD build if we're killing it via the kite method, since I never have any need for backup cures/status removal in that fight. It's fun firing off ~375-400 damage Quick Draws once every 50 seconds (could go higher; I'm missing a couple pieces of MAB gear) while simultaneously providing better support to the BLM party than a BRD would :P. Kirin is the only thing I ever go /BLM to, though - for Wyrm fights I always get more use out of /WHM.

Lately we've started to get more into TP burning Kirin, though, and COR/RNG can be pretty fun for that. My highest Slug was actually 1310, but I like this one better:
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/9231/kirinslugti5.jpg

[Callisto]

What all were you using for that? I'm assuming I'd need a major STR/Ratk boost from something in order to break out of the 300~ level I seem to be stuck in for Slug on Kirin, but I'm not really sure where I can pump more STR/Ratk into my WS set at the moment.

I'm probably going to get to do my 2nd Kirin as COR coming up in a couple of weeks, it'd be nice if I could boost my WS damage a tad, my QDs are in pretty good shape and I just got another stack of Corsair Bullets for TP building.

[Menelaus]

I am kinda curious myself about the equipment set up you have aswell.
Also what all MAB gear is available?

[Callisto]

For COR there's a few good MAB pieces, I use Moldavite(+5), Uggalepih Pendant(+8), and Denali Kecks(+3), which gives you a total of +16. There's also the Bastokan Circlet, I think that adds +2, but I personally prefer the flat +10 boost to base damage of the AF hat. I'm not sure what else out there is actually equippable by COR offhand.

Add: Durr forgot Novia Earring(+7), but kind of hard to actually get a hold of one of those compared to the other 3.

[Kylen]

What all were you using for that? I'm assuming I'd need a major STR/Ratk boost from something in order to break out of the 300~ level I seem to be stuck in for Slug on Kirin, but I'm not really sure where I can pump more STR/Ratk into my WS set at the moment.
The boost to my Slug Shot isn't due to my gear as much as it's due to external buffs and debuffs on Kirin during the zerg. I was just wearing my normal full r.atk/STR setup with a Fire Staff for it. We kill it in under 1:30 and everyone is able to deal massive amounts of damage thanks to double-Minuets (sometimes w/ Soul Voice), Chaos Roll, Angon, Dia III + Light Shot, and of course Feint so no one misses. I was eating Bison Steak for that fight since I was too cheap to buy Red Curry.

COR is actually extremely useful for Kirin melee zergs; not so much because of our damage but because we can reset Feint, Angon, and Barrage for the other members of our party during the right using Random Deal (and possibly 2-hours afterwards with Wild Card).

In a normal kited Kirin fight I rarely deal more than 200-300 damage with my Slugs either, in fact most of the time I don't even bother shooting and just stick to Quick Draw as /BLM.