TP Healer?

[Evion]

Hello All,

According to one of the Q&As of the Osaka FFXI event, Dancer must be on the front lines to heal. I'm thinking TP healing! Unfortunately, DD+Heal=HATE +1. Thoughts?

Evion

[Armando]

Job not designed to be a pure DD + healing through additional effects = HATE -1

[jenova_9]

I don't think Dancer abilities will get hate at all, except the provoke-type of effect they mentioned about one of the abilities, besides the one with Haste effects, and that HP drain one.

as far a I know, Mobs don't even know players have TP, so what difference would it make about a ability that fills up TP? normal attacks already fill up TP as it is.

And I dont see Dancer as a straight up DD, they simply have a wide spectrum of effects that can help the party and handicap the enemy, and just gotta melee the enemy for TP to fuel those abilities. :)

I doubt their physical attack output is any better than RDM. I dont see them getting hate as much as SAM and MNK do.

but ya I am concerned about ACCURACY, cause if Dancer keeps missing an IT mob in a exp party, they won't be much use. and just imagine HSNM cases, it would be a nightmare if they keep missing as bad as DRK or PLD.

That's why I'm thinking they should have a ability that lets them charge up TP, maybe 10% at a time. or if that's too cheap, they can just make it unstackable. like a Dancer can quick charge 10% TP to be able to use a certain Dance/Step/Flourish, and voila! They get the job done. :)

[Armando]

Dancer's abilities won't require 100 TP, so a Meditate would probably suffice for a couple of things in the case of HNMs.

For everything else, there's sushi.

[Taskmage]

People are gonna jump on me for saying this, but curing + provoke flourish + (*cringe*) nin sub has potential for the additional tank class everyone's been clamouring for. Of course, we'll have to see how dnc abilities perform enmity-wise and how their evasion is or if they have any strong defensive-oriented dances.

[Armando]

People are gonna jump on me for saying this,Naw. Personally I don't care either way if it can/will be used as a tank job. I get unsolicited invites all the time, so it's not like I'm hurting for them. Even if it could tank I could probably hold better hate while doing more damage, so as a PLD there's not much to be jealous of. Let them tank if they want.

Just hope they can heal through means that actually generate hate, because I don't see Endrain doing much for their enmity.

[Balfree]

The thought alone of dancing while taking punches and kicks from beetles and goblins....

[IfritnoItazura]

but ya I am concerned about ACCURACY, cause if Dancer keeps missing an IT mob in a exp party, they won't be much use. and just imagine HSNM cases, it would be a nightmare if they keep missing as bad as DRK or PLD.
It remains to be seen what is the skill level of Dancer in dagger, which will determine its base accuracy with it. However, DRK and PLD do not have accuracy problems. DRK, in particular, gains additional benefit from DEX when using two-handed weapons, and both jobs have access to a large number of accuracy gears.

[Malacite]

Dancer's abilities won't require 100 TP, so a Meditate would probably suffice for a couple of things in the case of HNMs.

For everything else, there's sushi.


Mastercard sending you free sushi now?

[Omni]

for some reason, dancer being a tank makes me think of pootie tang dodging bullets.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Its really interesting they're making this a TP-based healer/support/enfeebling class. I'm also kinda happy to see that team seemed to build it do discourage the /WHM crutch. I'm sure /WHM will still have a function with it, but its clearly not going to be the defacto sub since it has to melee to perform its duties.

I also hope Dancer getting a haste song means COR gets Haste Roll >.>/

[Karinya]

Dancer's abilities won't require 100 TP, so a Meditate would probably suffice for a couple of things in the case of HNMs.
Is this confirmed? I've just seen it as speculation so far.

Dnc/nin tank... ugh. Even after 74, they'd have a fraction of the def of a warrior, and the same lack of ability to recast while being hit (since their ninjutsu skill is halved). And their endrain would help someone *else* tank just as well as it would help the dnc tank... someone with actual defense, for example. (Well, technically I'm only assuming dnc can't wear real armor. But it would be pretty ridiculous if they could.)

That's not to say that someone won't try it. But it seems built to fail, even if SE doesn't deliver the long overdue subbed-utsu-nerf.

[Armando]

* While you need to first strike the enemy and gather TP, using "Step" will vary from Weapon Skills and not require the consumption of a full 100 TP.Source: http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/735968-post15.htmlDnc/nin tank... ugh. Even after 74, they'd have a fraction of the def of a warrior, and the same lack of ability to recast while being hit (since their ninjutsu skill is halved). And their endrain would help someone *else* tank just as well as it would help the dnc tank... someone with actual defense, for example. (Well, technically I'm only assuming dnc can't wear real armor. But it would be pretty ridiculous if they could.)Meh, doesn't really matter, NIN Defense isn't stellar, BRD defense isn't stellar, they still pull it off. It all comes down to what abilities they'll get, and how much hate the abilities will generate.

Although if they're supposed to be some sort of healer, I'm guessing they'll have more than just endrainga. Even if they drain as much damage as they hit for, it'd still be split among all 6 party members, making it more of a regen than a heal.
Mastercard sending you free sushi now?I wish.

[jenova_9]

I'm thinking now that /SAM will greatly help fuel TP faster thanks to the early TP trairt that SAMs get for earlier WSs.

and that's great news that at least Steps won't require 100% TP. ^_^

But if Dances and Flourishes still consume TP, I'm sure it would rack up the TP consumption pretty quickly. 30 + 30 = 60, etc.

but ya I seriously think Dancers won't be meant for tanking, some people may be able to pull it off, but Dancers are looking to be best for support in various forms, healing, enfeebling and other stuff. cause I doubt Dancers will be able to tank hits as good as WAR and PLD, unless they have a perfect dodge/shadows type of ability to 100% avoid hits.

[Karinya]

Source: http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/735968-post15.htmlMeh, doesn't really matter, NIN Defense isn't stellar, BRD defense isn't stellar, they still pull it off. It all comes down to what abilities they'll get, and how much hate the abilities will generate.
NIN have good evasion and parry and access to gear that improves it further, and they have the ninjutsu skill to recast while being hit, and they get one more shadow from Ni. Even then, they need their full DD damage, plus provoke (or stun), plus sometimes enfeebles to hold hate. DNC/NIN isn't going to have provoke and even if spending TP to provoke is just as good, that still leaves them without double attack or berserk, with lower damage weapons than a NIN, probably taking time out from swinging to dance *and* cast Utsu, and possibly without NIN's enmity gear.

BRD... don't tank since the mazurka change; I never saw one do it before, but I think they just kited (with mazurka on). That has its uses but isn't really going to allow them to tank in an exp context, which was the point of the previous post about DNC tanking.

If they're designed to tank, then they'll have other tools we don't know about yet to hold hate and stay alive; but if they're not, it seems pretty unlikely that they'll become an unintentional tank the way NIN did. NIN unintentionally had a frankly insane level of survivability while also being a DD; all it really needed was hate holding. DNC having one hate tool isn't going to make it invulnerable *and* give it the damage to back up those provoke-flourishes.

Now, if the provoke-flourish is available before level 37... pld/dnc, nin/dnc, war/dnc? Could happen (although more likely, giving up your TP for half-strength dance effects will prove to be suboptimal, even if they aren't further gimped by skill limitations or something like that.)
Although if they're supposed to be some sort of healer, I'm guessing they'll have more than just endrainga. Even if they drain as much damage as they hit for, it'd still be split among all 6 party members, making it more of a regen than a heal.
Oh, I figured all party members would get the endrain effect so each of them gets healing proportional to his own damage. (And of course it's not going to be Blood Weapon: The Dance. It's going to be limited in proc rate and/or amount drained.) That means the biggest damage dealers regain the most healing from it.

I don't see why anyone would think DNC are supposed to be some sort of healer, though. They have one ability that restores some HP. So does Bard (Paeon); that doesn't make anyone invite a bard to main heal. Their backup healing may be useful sometimes, but they just can't put out the focused, fast healing necessary to keep people alive in the face of Death Scissors, etc. DNC will likely be the same.

[Armando]

BRD... don't tank since the mazurka change; I never saw one do it before, but I think they just kited (with mazurka on). That has its uses but isn't really going to allow them to tank in an exp context, which was the point of the previous post about DNC tanking.Touche. I've been out of the loop for a while so I forgot that little tidbit.

All I'm saying is, the job is supposed to be able to heal, buff, and debuff. Somewhere in there, it's likely/possible that it'll have tools to heal itself, prevent damage, and have something semi-spammable for hate. That's all it really needs.

[jenova_9]

you know I take back my theory of /SAM. I think /BRD will be more helpful in the long run. though I see some will get away with /WHM maybe past dunes.

[Redx]

BRD... don't tank since the mazurka change; I never saw one do it before, but I think they just kited (with mazurka on).

just to add to this, BRD didn't kite using Mazurka. Mazurka wears off when you get aggro and are attacked by a monster.

it was however used to gain large amounts of hate making BRD/NIN (with +eva songs) a nice blink tank on some HNMs, the hate was nerfed :/


i think the DNCs +movement speed ability will be much the same and wear off with aggro, and most likely can only be used in open areas, like Mazurka.

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

I believe we will eventually see some parties replacing your typical healing spots with a DNC or /DNC. Post Lv60, a PUP/DNC could easily perform as well as any other healer. Imagine a Soboro SAM/DNC, Joyuese BRD/DNC, or Joyuese COR/DNC healing the party.

[Omni]

Does anyone know the drain effect difference btwn DNC main and /DNC? Is there even one?

[Dymlos]

I also hope Dancer getting a haste song means COR gets Haste Roll >.>/

Well I'm thinking since DNC needs TP for their dances, the Dancer Roll might be Regain. If they do get Regain OMG that's going to be so hawt and broken at the same time.

Dancer Roll + Samurai Roll, can I have it?