BLM/WHM or BLM/RDM?

[omera]

I've played a redmage/warrior taru taru before, and I was wondering if I should sub BLM/WHM or BLM/RDM? I know if I was BLM?WHM I would have to be the healer every now and than. If I chose BLM/WHM will people bitch and moan about me not being a very good healer? I've never played healers that much, and I want to get into them. Is it hard to do with FFXI's interface?

[kosuke101]

I've Heard BLM/WHM is really good for soloing and in small parties and /RDM is for more dmg spells and the occasional heal

[Ellipses]

Anyone complaining about a BLM not making a good main healer isn't worth your time. You may get called on to do it on occasion, but anyone asking you to do so should realize it's not going to be optimal anyway.

If you're talking about taking BLM to 75, you're going to be taking WHM and/or RDM to 37 anyway, so you'll get in a good amount of time as a healer. It's really not that hard to find your groove as healer if you pay attention. It's all about figuring out a targeting/macro scheme that works for you. There are several options, you just need to make sure you can cast the right spells on the right party/alliance members, and the right spells on the right mob, quickly. Once you find something that works for you, it's all habit.

If you only want to level one sub, I'd go with WHM. Far more useful and versatile as a subjob than RDM. But really, leveling them both ain't gonna kill you (very often).

[Kirsteena]

As with everything - shit is situational. /rdm, imo, is the better soloer, /whm is better for party dynamics. If you have to level one, level whm to 37, and you will get the groove for healing. Most people realise blm is not a main healer, but they do very well as a support heal - cures as the whm is resting, helping out with status effect etc.

[Icemage]

BLM/WHM is better than BLM/RDM for many levels in a party setting. You really get nothing tangible out of /RDM until BLM64/RDM32 when you get access to Dispel - and even that's situational based on whether you'll actually need someone to Dispel in a party. I really don't feel there's any good reason to sub RDM prior to that point.


Icemage

[Necropolis]

Like others said, you'll want both subs available.

/WHM is mainly for party dynamics. You get -na spells and eventually erase and raise.

/RDM is your DD/Solo sub. You get Fast Cast, Gravity, Dispel as well as more INT.

In the event you're invited to a party, I would assume /whm. If you're soloing or manaburning with other BLMs then sub rdm.

Another sub to consider is /nin. If you plan to solo at all (and you'll pretty much have to if you want to level past 55) the NIN sub is helpful. No fast cast, no more MP, but you get a guaranteed 3 shadows. Great for mobs that hit hard and would take stoneskin down fast. Also nice if you kill elementals in sky. Can use the ninjitsu to pull them and not link 500 magic aggro mobs.

[Theyaden]

Usually if someone shows up to xp with /rdm in low to mid level on their blackmage it's usually accepted, but gets a few questions ranging from forgot to switch subs? or wow you must realy hate whm. It does have better intelegence, but lower mana and you lose the ability to use area of effect buffs like barfira when the gobbomb is about to fire, protectra, shellra. Of course the party whm should be handling these things, but it's nice to be a backup.
I experimented with /sum as a sub for my rdm in static with a whm and found it drove me crazy not being able to insulate against gob-bombs so I switched back despite the higher int and mana. /whm is the best utility use mage job you will find special situations worth bringing the other 2 subs out for just very rarely for party.

[Olorin401]

I used to be a huge fan of BLM/RDM when I first got my RDM levelled high enough. It's a big help because I'm Elvaan and the INT boost rocks, plus access to Gravity and Dispel are key. I stopped using it though because I feel more comfortable in endgame situations having access to status cures, party-wide barspells (esp. with my WHM merits on them) and Reraise without paying 25k for an earring.

If I'm asked to bring BLM/RDM though, I'll do it.

[Necropolis]

party-wide barspells (esp. with my WHM merits on them)

Job merits don't apply on another job that can use the spell.

[Pteryx]

BLM/RDM is a marginally stronger and slightly quicker nuker, and has access to Dispel and Gravity, the latter of which is great for solo play. BLM/WHM will get cures faster and has status cures, and thus tends to be marginally better from a "team player" perspective. Both are good for XP parties.

However, on Midgardsormr at least, people assume nowadays that /RDM is now The One True Sub for BLM, and that if you come to a party as /WHM without being asked you must actually love healing. If you try to explain that no, you levelled WHM back when it was The One True Sub for BLM and you actually hate healing and can't bring yourself to level another main healer job to 37, you're decried as just being "too lazy" to do something that'd take "a week".

...At least, that's my BLM partner's experience. We just can't merit in the current environment without people snarking either openly or behind his back in /tell to me about his not using /RDM. -- Pteryx

[Icemage]

BLM/RDM is a marginally stronger and slightly quicker nuker, and has access to Dispel and Gravity, the latter of which is great for solo play. BLM/WHM will get cures faster and has status cures, and thus tends to be marginally better from a "team player" perspective. Both are good for XP parties.

However, on Midgardsormr at least, people assume nowadays that /RDM is now The One True Sub for BLM, and that if you come to a party as /WHM without being asked you must actually love healing. If you try to explain that no, you levelled WHM back when it was The One True Sub for BLM and you actually hate healing and can't bring yourself to level another main healer job to 37, you're decried as just being "too lazy" to do something that'd take "a week".

...At least, that's my BLM partner's experience. We just can't merit in the current environment without people snarking either openly or behind his back in /tell to me about his not using /RDM. -- Pteryx
Who are these clowns who think BLM/RDM is so much better? In a merit party manaburn, yes, BLM/RDM is better, but not so much better that anyone could or should care. The only time I think BLM/RDM is clearly better is maybe in a duo or trio situation where Gravity isn't optional.


Icemage

[Pteryx]

Who are these clowns who think BLM/RDM is so much better? In a merit party manaburn, yes, BLM/RDM is better, but not so much better that anyone could or should care. The only time I think BLM/RDM is clearly better is maybe in a duo or trio situation where Gravity isn't optional.

Strangely, people willing to entertain the notion of merit-level traditional parties. (As a BLM and a RDM, that's all we can get if we don't just duo instead.) -- Pteryx

[Icemage]

Strangely, people willing to entertain the notion of merit-level traditional parties. (As a BLM and a RDM, that's all we can get if we don't just duo instead.) -- Pteryx
RDM COR BLM BLM BLM BLM. Manaburn configuration. Screw the hopeless traditional XP parties.


Icemage

[Shadowneko]

If you're talking major subs /rdm has some big disadvantges over /whm...the biggest one is that it's slower to get spells....so if you need to backup hael you'd get cure 2 at lvl 22 with /whm...where as /rdm would take you longer to be able to use that spell...

[Kirsteena]

How I use subs.

Endgame/normal xp parties (lol) blm/whm.

Solo/duo/group of blm onry/ blm/rdm.

Omega blm/nin.

If you have to level one sub, level whm to 37.

[Olorin401]

Who are these clowns who think BLM/RDM is so much better? In a merit party manaburn, yes, BLM/RDM is better, but not so much better that anyone could or should care.
We're called Elvaan, and we do care because we have an Intelligence trait somewhere between head cheese and a toaster oven.

[Icemage]

We're called Elvaan, and we do care because we have an Intelligence trait somewhere between head cheese and a toaster oven.
Bah. Who cares about INT at level 75? Get some MATK and Elemental skill gear and go to town. As long as you nuke consistently, a bit of extra damage here or there doesn't make a lick of difference.

P.S. RDM + BLM can duo very, very effectively in Mount Zhayolm on puddings.


Icemage

[Bubers]

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[Kirsteena]

We're called Elvaan, and we do care because we have an Intelligence trait somewhere between head cheese and a toaster oven.

I tend to die ahead of most of the other races blm in my ls...

[Olorin401]

Bah. Who cares about INT at level 75? Get some MATK and Elemental skill gear and go to town. As long as you nuke consistently, a bit of extra damage here or there doesn't make a lick of difference.
P.S. RDM + BLM can duo very, very effectively in Mount Zhayolm on puddings.
Icemage
Man I absolutely love that camp. Usually I'm there with my five Dynamis BLM buddies because we all need to rework our buffers.
------------------------------------------
I tend to die ahead of most of the other races blm in my ls...
Heh.. I do that a lot too, cuz I have a big head about Elvaans being tougher than the other races.

[TheGrandMom]

If you only have the time to level up one sub job for your blm then go with whm. It is far more versatile than /rdm for all around party/alliance needs. While I prefer /rdm at my ls events, I usually end up having to come /whm. You also have to base it on the quality of the other members in your ally/party and/or what the mobs status attacks. Sometimes the more people with paralyna the better. LOL

If you are going to join an endgame shell though, make sure you have both rdm and whm subs. You will be much more of a benefit to your shell if you do.

[Icemage]

^ more to the point, most good endgame LS will not even accept your application if you haven't paid sufficient attention to your subjobs.


Icemage

[Pteryx]

RDM COR BLM BLM BLM BLM. Manaburn configuration. Screw the hopeless traditional XP parties.

We try, sometimes. Trouble is, quite a few manaburners insist on five BLMs and one refresher. On top of this, many of them don't quite understand that RDM is not well-suited to be a single refresher for a five-BLM manaburn.

Is it any wonder that we usually just duo instead?

P.S. RDM + BLM can duo very, very effectively in Mount Zhayolm on puddings.

Thanks, but on Midgard that place is kinda overcamped. We tend to prefer the strangely undercamped Alzadaal if we're playing it safe or feeling lazy/unambitious or need Standing, or else Uleguerand Range if we're feeling daring (the Signet changes mean we get awesome XP there). -- Pteryx

[IfritnoItazura]

On top of this, many of them don't quite understand that RDM is not well-suited to be a single refresher for a five-BLM manaburn.
Never done manaburn before; why would RDM be unsuited? (Granted, COR or BRD seem easier, but I don't see why RDM would be an ill fit.)

[Olorin401]

Never done manaburn before; why would RDM be unsuited? (Granted, COR or BRD seem easier, but I don't see why RDM would be an ill fit.)
To be honest you don't need a refresher at all - they just make things a bit quicker when you're resting. If you have a party of 5 or 6 you can easily get consistent Chain 11s, occasionally getting 12-14.

[Pteryx]

Never done manaburn before; why would RDM be unsuited? (Granted, COR or BRD seem easier, but I don't see why RDM would be an ill fit.)

It's not so much RDM being an ill fit to manaburn at all so much as being an ill fit as the single refresher for six MP pools while still being expected to pull and main heal. To refresh six people, we have to perpetually sit still and not get busy doing anything else (like panic healing the group when someone misclicks) or the cycle will have hiccups and people will go without for a while. The lack of a Refreshga hurts in five-BLM-one-refresher manaburn.

My friend and I once unceremoniously dropped a party of the above description when I was told to stop refreshing so I could pull better. *twitch*

RDM does, however, work fine in the four-BLM-two-Refresher setup. Ideally you want a COR as the other refresher for Wizard's Roll and stacking Refresh, but a second RDM will do in a pinch -- at least then you're splitting the burdens and not having unreasonable things expected of you. The trouble is finding BLMs willing to entertain the notion of a manaburn with less... well, burn. -- Pteryx

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I just want to add, in the manaburn situation at least one BLM should /WHM so if you guys start dying, we don't all have to HP and run back to camp. So long as one BLM has /WHM and Reraise at 66+, all is good.

[Spinnthrift]

Blm/Rdm vs Blmw/Whm.. both have their uses.

So far - I'd use things like Blm/Whm for 60 cap events, like BCNM's, where you get the early access to stoneskin, and for Salvage, /Whm is a lot stronger - as you will need to backup heal in that.

HNM's/Meriting/Solo'ing/general - unless /Whm is needed for a specific scenario, /Rdm is the best choice. Phalanx > Reraise and ~na spells. You can use RR equipment, you should be carrying antidotes/echo drops/poison pots etc for the situations - and other than slow (which can be dealt with by your party refresher in the case of HNM's and having a healer in your merit party).

As for manaburn camping - 6x Blm/Rdm is the fastest and most efficient exp for manaburning (as we'd tested finding we peaked at ~15k/hour with that setup, getting only ~12k/hour with a Cor or other refreshers - currently, don't know if Scholar will be a better/worse sj at this point in writing). There should be minimal healing from cures needed at best, and if you're worried about dying, use a RR earring. The party setup we used was reasonably good, couple of Novio Earring Blm's, straight HQ staves and mostly merited. In a decent party, you'll make back the cost of a charge on an earring within the first hour - i.e. a couple of stacks of water crystals or fire crystals.

Only place I'm not sure about, and tend to switch between a lot is Dynamis. /Whm is <3 for Xarca when you get that evil AoE slow, but /Rdm definately offers more poke and survivability. Thinking about it, I'll probably take /Rdm for Cities + Beaucedine and /Whm for Xarca/DL for a while.

[Yellow Mage]

/SCH should be the cool thing in a couple of weeks, tops.

[Icemage]

It's not so much RDM being an ill fit to manaburn at all so much as being an ill fit as the single refresher for six MP pools while still being expected to pull and main heal. To refresh six people, we have to perpetually sit still and not get busy doing anything else (like panic healing the group when someone misclicks) or the cycle will have hiccups and people will go without for a while. The lack of a Refreshga hurts in five-BLM-one-refresher manaburn.

My friend and I once unceremoniously dropped a party of the above description when I was told to stop refreshing so I could pull better. *twitch*

RDM does, however, work fine in the four-BLM-two-Refresher setup. Ideally you want a COR as the other refresher for Wizard's Roll and stacking Refresh, but a second RDM will do in a pinch -- at least then you're splitting the burdens and not having unreasonable things expected of you. The trouble is finding BLMs willing to entertain the notion of a manaburn with less... well, burn. -- Pteryx
I'll grudgingly do BLMx5 RDM manaburn on RDM, but I'm one of the few RDMs I know who can handle anchoring manaburn as RDM/BRD. Ballad I is like casting 2 Refresh at the same time for 0 MP, and as Tarutaru, I don't need the extra MP from /mage to support my Convert ratio.

Unless you have a Tarutaru RDM/BRD who knows what they're doing though, don't use BLMx5 RDM as your setup, as it will seriously suck due to insufficient MP flow.


Icemage

[Oblivion069]

BLM/WHM is better than BLM/RDM for many levels in a party setting. You really get nothing tangible out of /RDM until BLM64/RDM32 when you get access to Dispel - and even that's situational based on whether you'll actually need someone to Dispel in a party. I really don't feel there's any good reason to sub RDM prior to that point.


Icemage

Moderator's Edit: Destructive criticism is not allowed.Listen if you guys are going to talk please be a BLM first not only considering at 64 you don't sub neither BLM nor WHM since lvling in a party for BLM is impossible, for whoever asked please sub NIN when you solo in Newton Movalpolis as it is your fastest resource for EXP and if you are just doing a random event or anything just for fun go sub RDM because what you will need to do is gravity everything you fight, it is impossible to beat any easy prey or higher as BLM unless you are sub WHM but then again I haven't been lvl 64 in quite a very long time anyways. I like it how people like to lecture people about BLM and give wrong information... stfu! Please you don't know what you are talking about, not only accepting the fact RDM sub gives MAB+5 that is a free moldavite earring and your INT is going to go up much higher.

Jorge, Remora
WAR67 NIN63 RDM63 BLM75 SAM75 RNG75 BRD75

[Oblivion069]

Who are these clowns who think BLM/RDM is so much better? In a merit party manaburn, yes, BLM/RDM is better, but not so much better that anyone could or should care. The only time I think BLM/RDM is clearly better is maybe in a duo or trio situation where Gravity isn't optional.


Icemage

Stfu...

[Icemage]

Moderator's Edit: Destructive criticism is not allowed.Listen if you guys are going to talk please be a BLM first not only considering at 64 you don't sub neither BLM nor WHM since lvling in a party for BLM is impossible, for whoever asked please sub NIN when you solo in Newton Movalpolis as it is your fastest resource for EXP and if you are just doing a random event or anything just for fun go sub RDM because what you will need to do is gravity everything you fight, it is impossible to beat any easy prey or higher as BLM unless you are sub WHM but then again I haven't been lvl 64 in quite a very long time anyways. I like it how people like to lecture people about BLM and give wrong information... stfu! Please you don't know what you are talking about, not only accepting the fact RDM sub gives MAB+5 that is a free moldavite earring and your INT is going to go up much higher.
Jorge, Remora
WAR67 NIN63 RDM63 BLM75 SAM75 RNG75 BRD75
Well, since you're in a criticizing mood, how about you learn that the Magic Attack I trait you get from /RDM doesn't stack with the innate one you get at BLM 10, eh? :P

Seriously, people in glass houses...


Icemage

[Spinnthrift]

Once again another retard just like that other moderator... Listen if you guys are going to talk please be a BLM first not only considering at 64 you don't sub neither BLM nor WHM since lvling in a party for BLM is impossible, for whoever asked please sub NIN when you solo in Newton Movalpolis as it is your fastest resource for EXP and if you are just doing a random event or anything just for fun go sub RDM because what you will need to do is gravity everything you fight, it is impossible to beat any easy prey or higher as BLM unless you are sub WHM but then again I haven't been lvl 64 in quite a very long time anyways. I like it how people like to lecture people about BLM and give wrong information... stfu! Please you don't know what you are talking about, not only accepting the fact RDM sub gives MAB+5 that is a free moldavite earring and your INT is going to go up much higher.

Jorge, Remora
WAR67 NIN63 RDM63 BLM75 SAM75 RNG75 BRD75

While I'm in agreement that some people really don't have a clue - /Rdm doesn't give you +5 MAB. It gives you fast cast, and in the case of Taru, +3 Int over /Whm, not to mention - Dispel, Gravity, Phalanx.

Oh, and most Blm's don't have access to the 3x Blm, 1x Smn, 1x Brd, 1x Cor party setup for manaburn. :P So Blm x6 tends to win otherwise.

- Damnit.. beat me to it.

[Chubsmgee]

Whats up with the glass house Ice?

[Mhurron]

Don't necro threads when you have nothing to add to the discussion.