What will you Sub with Dancer?

[Animeangel77]

I am confused about what to lvl for the dancer job cause for one I don't know if it is a Mage or Melee type job. So I wanted to Ask what will you sub for your dancer?

[Silent Howler]

I suppose Rdm might be a safe bet. >_>

[KoukiRyu]

Not enough info has been released about Dancer, so just level up every single job to 37, especially PUP, cause that's just a leet sub in general.

Just kidding. ^^ From what it seems, it seems like a mage job will more than likely benefit it. Ninja is almost guaranteed, and like SilentHowler said, RDM is more than likely a safe bet as well.

[Murphie]

You can't go wrong leveling NIN, WHM, WAR and THF for just about any job. Especially if you have no practical idea how the job is going to perform in the game.

[Animeangel77]

great info ^^ ty you guys are nice :)

[Malacite]

I'd have BLM sub ready too just in case. The description on the site makes a direct comparison so who knows? MAB might just be good for Dancer.

[Animeangel77]

I'd have BLM sub ready too just in case. The description on the site makes a direct comparison so who knows? MAB might just be good for Dancer. I don't mean to sound like a noob. but, what does MAB mean?

[Murphie]

Magic Attack Bonus.

[Aksannyi]

I was originally thinking this would be another Bard-ish job, so WHM and NIN probably would work out well, as others have said. Everyone and their uncle /NIN nowadays. (Except me. Mine's gimp.)

[jenova_9]

ah I'll just sub War but subbing MNK would be interesting if Dancer can equip knuckles. hmmm maybe sub PLD would be interesting too since right now its higher than my WHM job, though I can probably breeze through Dunes with whm sub but then I might find it tricky trying to reach lv.20 and 30 afterwards.

aaah I think saving gil and making more gil will be a good idea too cause who knows how dependany on gear and upgrades Dancer may need for invites.

[Murphie]

When the job first debuts, we will see all sorts of subs being used. Whether or not each of those subs will stand the test of time is anybody's guess.

[Kailea]

heck I was just planning on going full support and go Dancer/BRD ;p

[Jarre]

Isee it as another buffing/ enfeebling job like dancer in FFX-2, lookign at the weapon on one of the pictures, it looks like a dagger. i wouldn't think brd sub would be any good as you could only cast one song, but whm may be the sub of choice giving teh role of enfeebler/buffer and backup healing to the party.

[Kailea]

I did COR/BRD from 20 to 37 after teh update that fixed how /BRD worled as a sub with COR, and it was great. This would be the same concept, 2 dance effects and 1 song effect, off just one player

[jenova_9]

I wanna see a party of 6 Dancers beat Shadow Lord. XD

[Murphie]

I imagine that won't be much of a challenge once they reach a certain level.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Dancer was an enfeebler in other FF games, so I think subjob that favor that would be good, particularly subs that grant Magic Attack Bonus (RDM, BLM, BLU). WHM and NIN are always safe bets, too. Perhaps /THF and /WAR as well seeing as they seem to be getting Sword Dance (Kreigstanz).

/BLM is a little too sketchy for my tastes, as it offers zero PT support and its only +5 more MAB than what RDM or BLU would offer, moreover, /WHM offers all the best option if you wanted to skew to a deeper support role.

/BRD ... I'll really never understand the appeal to this one. Its decent for early levels 1-20, but 50+ the reasoning behind it is extremely shallow. Worse is it offers no skills or returns to a main job in most cases.

[Kailea]

Dancer/Bard or even
Bard/Dancer ......
Both classes are CHR based, and there for would work well together

I bet 90% of the things BRD can wear, so will Dancer.

/BRD would give a bigger bost in CHR then other jobs, and would allow for an extra buff/debuff

not saying that /BRD would be the only sub, but you can throw it out and say no, before looking at all the possibilities.

I am sure /WHM or /RDM would be the most used in PTs like with BRD and /WAR or THF for a more DoT type effect

[Telera]

Whatever it is, I refuse to do ninja.

If White Mage is viable for the majority of party situations, I will take up dancer on my Tarutaru.

If Ninja is more requested, since I have utterly had it with the 'SHADOWZEVARTHING!' fad, then I will simply skip the job and go with my plan of doing Beastmaster.

[jenova_9]

ya I doubt /NIN will be on demand as its sub.

and DCR/NIN wouldn't win the tank role as much as PLD, WAR and NIN would.

/WHM is more useful since support healing is more useful for a support job like this. But probably not by much if it has a small manapool, which would make /WAR even more accepted at least until maybe lv.30.

but you know, DCR/NIN might actually be good for extra damage, so dual-wield could in fact double the effectiveness of their damage output. But can't say if DCR's stats will provide decent accuracy.

but overall I theorize Dancer will be most wanted for its support abilities above all else, which would be cool cause that gives Dancer the flexibility to use different subs to contribute with DD or support healing, or other side roles.

like BRD, I don't think people will care or even pay attention what Dancer does as long as their Dances keep coming to cripple the mob. so chances are their sub is really up to the Dancer, but ya I think a big factor will be the size of their mana pool is and if they have any abilities that regenerates MP, otherwise they might as well sub a fighter class.

[Karinya]

ya I doubt /NIN will be on demand as its sub.
and DCR/NIN wouldn't win the tank role as much as PLD, WAR and NIN would.
I doubt very much that dancer/anything will be tanking. Unless it's something unintentional like the brief Mazurka tanking fad.
but you know, DCR/NIN might actually be good for extra damage, so dual-wield could in fact double the effectiveness of their damage output. But can't say if DCR's stats will provide decent accuracy.
Dual wield won't double the effectiveness of anyone's damage output (are there really people who think that? sheesh, no wonder /NIN is so popular). Because of the delay increase the most you will ever gain is a few percent, usually less damage output than you would have gained with /WAR Double Attack and Berserk. THF/WAR has outdamaged THF/NIN forever; it's primarily the usefulness of shadows for pulling that makes the latter popular.
but overall I theorize Dancer will be most wanted for its support abilities above all else, which would be cool cause that gives Dancer the flexibility to use different subs to contribute with DD or support healing, or other side roles.
like BRD, I don't think people will care or even pay attention what Dancer does as long as their Dances keep coming to cripple the mob. so chances are their sub is really up to the Dancer, but ya I think a big factor will be the size of their mana pool is and if they have any abilities that regenerates MP, otherwise they might as well sub a fighter class.
I mostly agree, although I would point out that it seems very unlikely to me that dances will use MP, or that dancer will have any MP of its own; probably like Bard, they will only have MP if they have an MP-using subjob or MP equipment.

[IfritnoItazura]

I'll bet the 9 out of 10 Japanese Dancers will be using /WHM in the first month, no matter what the heck Dancer actually does.

[Nuriko]

Well, yes ... there are people who think /NIN will double your damage.

[Shadowneko]

Who knows? Previous incranations of Dancer have...well been the total opiste of bard. It could be a DD or even a tank with some sort of entrance-tye dance that makes the monsters fixated and less likely to attack.(sorry too much Rachet and Clank)

[jenova_9]

oh ya sorry! :) I shoulda realized /NIN doesn't = better damage, I have noticed the delay too.

ya I'm sure /WAR and possibly /WHM will be popular subs for Dancer. That will be repulsive though if dagger is the best weapon for them. I don't feel like skilling up dagger. I don't wanna level THF but I guess I should anyway for gil purposes. Might as well get a headstart to afford all that gear.

but ya Dancer should definitely not need MP to Dance. but hopefully the recast time is generous. :)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

not saying that /BRD would be the only sub, but you can throw it out and say no, before looking at all the possibilities.

I can look at the history of dancer in the series and confidently say that a job that specializes in entrancing and crippling their enemies would probably benefit more from anything that wasn't /BRD or /COR.

/BRD is and extremely low tier subjob. Its something you sub if you are really hard-pressed to have a refresher in PT or be in a manaburn. The buffs are pretty weak. I'd expect what few buffs Dancer does get to be better than what they could gain from subbing BRD.

[jenova_9]

ya hopefully they don't hold back giving Dancer abilities/spells some effective results that make a signficant difference. Otherwise it might end up being ignored and unwanted like PUP and BST.

lol as for BRD, many people actually get a morale boost from seeing those music note icons appear on their screen. XD

[Karinya]

I would expect WAR, THF and NIN to be popular early, as people don't want to juggle figuring out dances *and* making effective use of a technical SJ. If it turns out that you don't need to spend that much time dancing, and/or dancers have B or worse dagger, then higher level dancers will probably combine their dances with supportive subs.

B dagger would look awfully unimpressive after 60. Even A dagger looks bad outside of main job SATA. And for that matter, daggers also have lousy WS at low levels, and non-SATA'd (or sub-SA only) Viper Bite probably isn't going to impress anyone either. Thieves often use another weapon. Dancers may or may not have that option.

Below level 30 or so /WHM might be used just because no other subjob gives you anything much worth noticing.

But all of that is subject to change once the actual mechanics of dancing become known. What does it do, how long does it take, does it need MP, can it be resisted, what are the limits on stacking, etc.

[jenova_9]

ya hopefully they can use a 1h sword, otherwise dagger would just force most people to just sub /WHM. But I'm sure Dancers can use maybe 1 or 2 other types of weapons, but not sure, I sorta doubt they can/need to use staffs, it wouldn't look right anyway. I have a strong feeling they can't use polearms, axes, katanas, or possibly knuckles either. This leads back to my theory that they might be able to use 1h swords, or maybe not, but ya I do agree /WHM has the best chance of Dancers winning invites in the early levels. But I'm not totally sure how much MP /WHM can bestow upon DCR to make use of.

ideally, it wouldn't make sense to sub War cause those are mainly tanking abilities until level 30 up. I would be surprised if /BLM makes them more useful, actually...hmmm, /BLM might be the ticket for better damage, even though their MP will most likely run dry after like 3 spells.

I'm really starting to believe /BLM will do much better in the early levels cause Dancer is being hinted at being an offensive job, you know kinda like the opposite of Bard, so why not enhance their offense capabilities with black magic and possibly more enfeebling capabilities. But overall, it's a tug of war cause support healing is always more welcome, I mean if you got a tank and DD, and maybe some other DDs/tanks, then you're pretty much all set with the damage dealing, now what's needed is healing and support healing.

I think I may in fact level BLM just in case, it could turn Dancer into a magical force to be reckoned with. :)

[wrongfeifong]

/whm ...that;s what they say for brd... and it pretty useless for brd most of the time.

[Raydeus]

/whm ...that;s what they say for brd... and it pretty useless for brd most of the time.

Useless? I guess we've had very different experiences with the job. :shocked:

[Ellipses]

I think I may in fact level BLM just in case, it could turn Dancer into a magical force to be reckoned with. :)
/BLM doesn't add anything terribly useful except for MAB, which probably won't help Dancer's skills much. Half-leveled spells suck unless they're sure-fire and/or capped like Cure and Protect, or if the main job has a natural ability in them anyway.
/whm ...that;s what they say for brd... and it pretty useless for brd most of the time.
Useless for crappy, lazy bards with no communication skills.

[Evion]

I'm hoping for /RDM, but I think it will be more like melee style /WAR, /THF. Maybe /DRK for later levels?

[jenova_9]

I think you can get away with maybe War.

but ya I'm beginning to agree /WHM will be popular and useful at least until maybe 30.

[Icemage]

It all depends on what skills Dancer has as its main. If the dances go under their own new Dancing skill, then your standard arsenal of /WHM, /NIN, or /THF apply depending on how the game mechanics work out.

I think most people will be subbing /WHM early on if for no other reason than it's the most useful support job taken on its own in a party situation.

We need to see what the rest of the gameplay for the job works out like before passing judgment on any other subjob.


Icemage

[jenova_9]

yeah but all we can do is speculate now.

but ya I strongly think Dancer will be similiar to Bard in that it's Dance magic won't require MP (hopefully. I really love Bard's style of magic that's similiar to FF8's para-magic yet unlimited with a time refresh duration delay requirement to use it again.)

And its abilities will be more about handicapping the enemy and perhaps removing negative status from the party as well, sort of like a poison assassion who can use poison on enemies and rid themselves of any poison. (poison being used as a general example). but ya who knows how diverse their spectrum of talents go. It will sure be exciting to find out more. But ya I hope it's more of a support and dd type of job, well leaning more on the support side, but I think Dancers will make better fighters than Bards, possibly, if they inherit their FFT qualities too.

oh hey side news but Scholar has been confirmed

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4219/schit0.jpg

hmm I wonder how they would compare with Dancers? Well sure Scholars seem to be WHMs that can become BLMs, and vice versa. I dunno if that's some type of special RDM style, but then again their types of magic are not confirmed. Anyways, I wonder if Dancers can do more damage than Scholars?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Based on what I've read in Elmer The Pointy's transltion, I'm now seeing melee subs such as /WAR, /NIN and /SAM being much more favorable to Dancer since those are subs that favor TP gain and TP feeds their abilities rather than MP or a no-cost spell/ability like COR and BRD has.

/COR could be something at 74 as well, as they get Samurai Roll at 37 main job.

With TP in mind, I'm seeing Mercurial Kris as a potential weapon of choice for this job, so I'll be focusing my efforts on obtaining one. At any rate its also nice for COR. I also need to acquire some more MAB gear for COR, which should also compliment the job nicely.

I'm not writing off mage subs completely, but this class requires melee engagements to do what it does, so I can't really see them as high-priority for this job past the lower levels.

[Karinya]

With Signet, melee and resting are no longer incompatible (in Signet areas, which probably will still include the first 50+ levels of exp). Below 50 you aren't really getting any extra TP out of /war or /nin, anyway.

With higher levels, of course that will change; /sam post 60 may be a possibility (particularly at hnm; several other people have already observed that you're probably not going to want the alliance's dancers swinging away at Kirin or a Jailer to get the TP to power their dances).

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

With Signet, melee and resting are no longer incompatible (in Signet areas, which probably will still include the first 50+ levels of exp). Below 50 you aren't really getting any extra TP out of /war or /nin, anyway.

Well, it appears Dancer gets a form of Haste from the most recent Osaka news, while higher tiers of DW and while DA may not be available until 50, /WAR does have Berzerk going for it before then, which would help contribute to damage.

Honestly, I see mage subs boxing dancer in like they currently do CORs, so i don't see how /NIN or /WAR wouldn't be good pre-50 seeing how little /WHM is going to add when gear options become more diverse as dancer grows in level. /WHM can be just as much of a crutch as it can be helpful.

With higher levels, of course that will change; /sam post 60 may be a possibility (particularly at hnm; several other people have already observed that you're probably not going to want the alliance's dancers swinging away at Kirin or a Jailer to get the TP to power their dances).

If Dancer becomes a "Boost/Chi Monkey" at endgame levels, I think that would kill the job for me. SE better have tools and traits in place to ensure no other job suffers the fate that MNK currently does at endgame. A "Meditate Monkey" wouldn't be very exciting.

Though I suppose if SE is going to use TP as Dancer's MP, they may be giving it some Store TP traits, possibly a "Conserve TP" trait as well. Regardless, for the debuffs, I think Dancer does have to be engaged and debuffs have generally been the stronger suit of dancer, not buffs.

[Karinya]

If Dancer becomes a "Boost/Chi Monkey" at endgame levels, I think that would kill the job for me. SE better have tools and traits in place to ensure no other job suffers the fate that MNK currently does at endgame. A "Meditate Monkey" wouldn't be very exciting.
Tools and traits have nothing to do with it: it's the limit of 18 people with claim on the mob that causes the phenomenon. (Outside instanced endgame content like Dynamis, Salvage etc.) Would you rather have one of those slots taken by a dancer hitting for 3, or have it taken by a sam who has just finished meditating and is coming in to WS before he drops out to meditate again? I know which one is going to get Kirin/JoL/etc. dead faster.

Monks have something useful to do that *doesn't require TP*, so they do it. All the other melees sub sam or bring their opo-opo necklaces and sleep potions.
Though I suppose if SE is going to use TP as Dancer's MP, they may be giving it some Store TP traits, possibly a "Conserve TP" trait as well. Regardless, for the debuffs, I think Dancer does have to be engaged and debuffs have generally been the stronger suit of dancer, not buffs.
Most HNM are either immune or nearly immune to debuffs. That's why RDM spend most of their time in HNM fights refreshing and backup healing (except for a few where we chainstun). DNC is going to have the same problem even worse: if you need to build tp on a level 90 monster before using your debuffs that get resisted... please bring another job.

Dancer working fine on exp mobs does not translate into dancer working fine on HNMs.

[jenova_9]

but it looks to me Dancer has many bases covered. it has Dances for healing (maybe this includes removing bad status from party members, but it affects everyone at once instead of only one target at a time).

and the Steps and Flourishes could offer more support stuff, ya mostly debuffs/enfeeble stuff, but also like that drain HP from mob thing that the whole party benefits from.

I think DCR/BRD is gonna be a great support job (they will only be able to stick one song in effect at a time, but it's still helpful. just give everyone Army's Paeon or Valor Minuet and they'll thank you for it). and ya early levels war and stuff won't really help build TP quicker.
if people wanna contribute more damage and rack up TP quicker, Maybe DCR might as well be able to equip knuckles and sub /MNK since MNKs generally rack up TP quicker with double hits and their boost can increase damage potential.

but I think SE thought of that possibility and want Dancer to use knives instead, so they might in fact block off Dancer from ever being able to use Knuckles. hence, why I would go for DCR/BRD instead.

and since Dancer depends on MP, one can say without a sub, they will have no MP,
therefore subbing /WHM for a pathetic puddle of MP will definitely not offer as much as /BRD would, especially if the party doesn't have a BRD (they are rare anyway. So why not have a Dancer that offers the best of both support worlds AND still contribute some damage dealing instead of sitting with the mages like a flimsy coward?). :)

[Balfree]

I will be DNC/SCH

[jenova_9]

uh oh it looks like at the Osaka event, they mentioned one of the Steps+Flourish effects includes "Provoke". waaa hopefully people don't actually except Dancer to tank. Anyways the interviews have stated that they wanted the new jobs, especially Dancer, to provide all kinds of support, without being forced on the sidelines. So it's kinda like a little dd here, and little enfeeble there, a little party boost here.... etc. etc. That's great that one of the abilities is in fact Haste-type. that sounds cool, I wonder if it's in fact a Hastega-like affect that targets everyone. ^_^

but ya that sure is interesting that means that Steps set up the effect that lets Flourishes serve as a finishing move, so they are kinda used in conjunction with steps.

But ya this is great they said each race/gender will have their own Dance animations! at least 4 animations each!! and each one will have their own unique finishing pose after each Dancer I think.

but iffy is that so far it looks like Dancing in towns will not be possible since they require TP, and as everyone knows TP resets and remains 0% while in town.
the only way I see it is if they add an ability to Dancer that lets them generate TP, like say 10% or something, kinda like Monk's boost, but increases TP instead of attack power.

the catch would be that the TP charge ability would not be stackable. I can see that working, or maybe they can try something else. like add a minor Dance abilities that doesn't need TP and can be used in towns. or add them as exclusive emotes to the Dancer job. or something. :)


I'm sure the demand will be high that SE will be convinced to let Dancers dance in town, somehow. Cause the pressure from BRDs being able to sing in town would cause a debate about Dancers not given that kinda freedom.

[Icemage]

With the above information, it's looking likely that /NIN will become very popular. Dancers have no need for MP, and their primary weapon is a one-handed weapon (dagger). Furthermore, dependence on TP makes dual wielding make sense (faster attack rate), and with some form of Provoke available, you could maybe tank at level 74+ unless the dance steps do Bad Things to spellcasting recharge the way Hasso and Seigan do.


Icemage

[Karinya]

You can Meditate in town. This would only help level 60+ dnc/sams, but hey, if it's just to show off in town...

Actually, Store TP could easily outperform DW for getting more TP faster, and with the addition of Meditate... if TP are really a limiting factor on DNC's performance (as opposed to, say, recast timers or stacking limits where it's easy to get as many dances on as you can actually have at once), /sam could be the dominant post-60 sub (and not just at HNM where you can't get into the main alliance to build TP). Despite the fact that DNC can't benefit from Hasso/Seigan.

P.S. Bards have no need for MP either - unless they have a subjob that *does* have a use for it. Ditto beastmasters. /WHM isn't just a way to get MP, it's also a way to use it, in one convenient package that also saves people's lives.

[Malacite]

SE said that if the demand was high enough we may get to dance at will ^- ^ (god please)

Off topic I know. but I'm curious as to just what the hell COR is going to get for it's new rolls (and the new BLU spells). Seriously, what the hell is Dancer's Roll going to do? If it cuts TP use in half for WS or something insane like that...

Really, I just can't fathom it. Scholar roll is also an enigma, but I'm sure it'll have an effect on white and/or black magic.


... can't freaking WAIT to use Sword Dance ^_ ^


Do you suppose dances will be learned as Job Traits/Abilities? Or maybe they'll be the first spells in the game to require TP to cast? For all we know Dancer could have a spell list that shows recast and TP cost.

[jenova_9]

I believe Dances will have their own Spell Category just like BRD. but of course TP will be spent. I think the recast time will be quick just like WHM and BLM.

But I think all Dancers, Steps and Flourishes are learned through scrolls just like all other magic. Therefore it's possible they are all within the Dance list, like there's one list, and each type is symbolized so people know which ones is a Dance, which one is a Step, and which one is a Flourish spell. :)

I think it would be more organized that way instead of 3 separate lists/windows.



oh ya and NOW I'm almost convinced that /SAM will be the ideal sub since SAM has a early trait to enhance the TP increase rate.

[menamataru]

Dancers use daggers. Dancers will do /nin and /whm, Dancers will be like bard. :thumbsup:

[Malacite]

Okay, after fiddling around with Dancer for a bit I came to following conclusions.


/SAM is out for EXP, no question about it. Even with a Rajas Ring, you'll only get Store TP II, which combined will net you 6 TP a swing with a knife. Take into account that Meditate is only 60 TP every 3 minutes and you can't use Hasso or Seigan and SAM really isn't that good an option.

/WHM won't be very good either outside of the dunes. Since Dancer is designed to heal with TP, you're not going to want to rest. You could use Aspir Samba to help alleviate this issue, but the party is probably much better off with Drain or Haste Samba (at least if you have a NIN tank anyway).

/NIN is really the ideal sub here. Dual-Wield to increase TP gain and shadows to keep you safe while you're buffing people and tossing out 'cures'. This and /WAR for Double Attack and Berserk are the clear winners for SJ choice on DNC.

As for Joyeuse, DNC only has a D rank in sword, so it's gonna mean /NIN Suppa and sushi full time. It's too bad DNC can't use Mercurial Kris but SE obviously saw that coming and didn't intend for DNC to TP that fast.

[Anaki]

id love to lvl dancer without nin sub >.< the whole dual wield = everything idea that happens alot is annoying :(

[Kailea]

oh here we go..... /NIN and /WAR BS all over again for yet another job, well I call BS on that -.-

/BRD or /COR for a pure buff/debuff job

/SAM for TP

/WHM or /RDM for healing help

/WAR or /DRK for more DD power

/NIN for tanking (yes it can be done if the dancer is good at their job)

/BLU for a balance of extra stat bonuses, and spells

[Anaki]

yep /nin sub is only for shadows >.<

[Yellow Mage]

/NIN is really the ideal sub here.

Was there any doubt? -.-

But, seriously, I like Kailea's interpretation better.

[Malacite]

Did you ignore my post entirely? /SAM doesn't work.

The most Store TP you can pile on (that'd be worthwhile) is 20%, which on a 5 TP dagger means you'll earn 6 a swing. the only other benefits are 3rd eye and 60 TP from meditate every 3 minutes. While this may be good for HNM scenarios (DNC might be screwed here altogether since it needs to melee...) but certainly not for EXP. You need a lot of TP for some of those higher level dances.

/WAR and /NIN are the clear winners here, and if you need an explanation why... you're already SOL.

[Dymlos]

If /WAR and /NIN are the only options, I am so going /WAR just for the sake that I'm sick of /NIN ONRY OR NO PT!!!!!!LOLOL@ONEONOEONE! The only time I ever go /NIN is when I'm in RNG mode.

[Kailea]

Did you ignore my post entirely? /SAM doesn't work.
The most Store TP you can pile on (that'd be worthwhile) is 20%, which on a 5 TP dagger means you'll earn 6 a swing. the only other benefits are 3rd eye and 60 TP from meditate every 3 minutes. While this may be good for HNM scenarios (DNC might be screwed here altogether since it needs to melee...) but certainly not for EXP. You need a lot of TP for some of those higher level dances.
/WAR and /NIN are the clear winners here, and if you need an explanation why... you're already SOL.


and did you read mine? my options make more since then "WAR NIN only"

atleast I give a better range of options -.-

I would rather have a DNC/BRD in my PT because I know I would ge thte most "buff" out of them

[Armando]

/SAM can compete with /WAR and /NIN for TP just fine. Although you're right in that /WAR and /NIN are more balanced since /SAM doesn't increase damage output at all.

[Malacite]

It doesn't increase TP much either. I'm speaking from a purely functional viewpoint of how DNC works.

/WHM will depend heavily on Aspir Samba as I pointed out, which may or may not help the PT. Remember, DNC needs to constantly be gaining TP to be effective. You have to sorta take yourself out of mage mode and go into BLU mode >. > (I say that 'cause well, BLU is probably the best example of a hybrid the game has)

[Kailea]

at the same time.... SE did not make Dancer... just for it to be yet another job, people hore out /WAR and /NIN to......

I see/NIN and /WAR WAY to much, people need to get creative and learn to play other job combos......

[Saren]

I am not going to pretend to be an authority on any of this so just asking some questions and thinking out loud really.

From what I remember of what SE said about Dancer pre release and looking at Wiki now I am just wondering about /rng at certain levels. 10-20 would give Dancer the level 1 accuracy trait early plus Dancer has native throwing skill at C+. I am just thinking that that's the same at Sam archery and sam seems to manage alright with a bow 20-30. The extra boost to TP from the ranged attacks would be nice too.

No idea of course but I am also sort of wondering whether dances and SA/TA stack. If drain samba is based on what you hit for then that might be interesting.


On /nin:

Got slightly caught up in the maths so putting them up but it doesn't help that I don't have experience with a melee job so I may have overlooked things, however....numbers wise (used wiki for my info) /nin looks like it might suck horribly on dancer.

Assuming this (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/3/3d/Tpgain.jpg) is right then /nin seems like a bad choice if you want to max out TP gain. Dagger is the only B skill so I am assuming that means Dagger only once you get out of the really low levels. The best places to be for TP gain according to that graph are under 180 delay or in the 480-530 delay range. Seeing as how dagger delay ranges from 150 to 220 this gives /nin a problem.

At 50+ and assuming I can count, with /nin dual wielding daggers your can get a base delay range of 255 - 374. For a start that totally cuts off the 480-530 delay range, so looking at 180 and under.

Assuming you have the capped 25% haste from gear and 15% from the haste spell (can't add in haste samba yet because we don't know if they stack and how strong Samba) and Dual wield II then the maximum delay you could go up to and still be 180 or under delay after all buffs applied is 297 which, given minimum dagger delay is 150, isn't possible. Even if haste samba does stack and it's fairly strong you are only going to be in the low 300s on base delay which gives you very few options weapon choice wise and possibly gives Drain Sambe some problems if it's based off damage per hit.

Also, B ranked skill means prioritising accuracy gear to an extent particularly if steps are all/mostly based on melee accuracy and are the only way to earn finishing moves which makes /nin and maxing out haste even less attractive.

[IfritnoItazura]

I think it remains to be seen how much TP Dancer needs; Drain Samba lasts for quite a while, so don't need to reapply very often. Don't want to sacrifice too much damage if better dagger with higher delay is available by going with some very low damage, low delay ones.

Of course, if the goal is making the best use out of Drain Samba, then low delay daggers and Dual Wield are the way to go. Not entirely clear if drain daze still take off monster's HP when it shows "0", though, like it is for the spell Drain.

As for throwing, do Dancer get anything good to throw? I was under the impression only Ninja has decent throwing weapons. Whatever that's being throw, if it misses much more than dagger, it may not be worth the effort.

* * *

In Signet area, resting between fights should be the norm. (Poke anyone who's not pulling and yet not resting.) Looks like /WHM may work nicely, for an extra source of Cure and status removal.

[Saren]

Obviously we don't know how TP intensive Dancer might be yet but I was just saying to the people who have been advocating /nin for faster TP gain that it doesn't look like /nin gives you more TP at all. I think a dancer who is healing quite a lot is going to be quite TP intensive, 20 TP for Curing Waltz, 35 for Curing Waltz 2.

I didn't make a big point of drain samba because not sure how it works yet but people have been saying that you need to hit for some damage for it to activate. Assuming that's true then the very low delay daggers might not help very much.

Had a quick look in game, seems like Dancer can only use Chakram type ranged weapons so not really sure on how useful that is. They don't have anywhere near the damage of nin throwing weapons and higher delay but the first ones you get are in the late 200s delay wise which means 7TP on each successful hit, might be nice for when you could really do with enough TP for something right away.

Edit: On the delay front, single wielding a 220 delay dagger (the maximum you can get) you only need 20% haste to get down to 180 delay so haste and 5% from gear would do it so you could still get down to the nice TP zone without compromising on damage.

[Malacite]

ppl haven't been checking wiki it seems :angry:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Dancer

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Divine_Waltz 40 TP

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Curing_Waltz_II 35 TP (heals 170 HP but still..)

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Drain_Samba_II 25 TP

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Drain_Samba_II 20 TP just to remove a status effect.

Depending on how much dancing you do, you're gonna be burning your TP pretty quickly. Full-time Sushi is a given for later levels (due to B rank Dagger and reliance on accuracy) and DW 2, while it'll lower your per-hit TP gain which sucks, will increase your DoT and over all TP gain.

/WAR is better if you want to deal more damage and get more TP though Double Attack isn't as reliable as DW2.


Sorry if I came across as negative, I've just been weighing the pros and cons of each sub in my head for EXP parties. If meditate was still on it's old 1 minute timer (how long ago was that anyway o. O) then yah /SAM would rock but that's not the case.

/WHM just doesn't seem to fit because of how active DNC is. It could work and will have to be tested. Like I said, it'll hinge on just how good Aspir Samba I and II are. Plus, support subs like /WHM and /BRD really don't help your accuracy and TP gain as much as other subs and that's what DNC needs most. You might be able to get away with Hunter's Roll since SE buffed it up but forget about Sword Madrigal. Won't do squat and takes 8 seconds to cast. BRD has a C rating in singing skill.


I will say this though, as thrilled about the job as I am, the description on POL really made it sound as though DNC/BLM would be a bad ass combo >. >

[Restlesstornado]

If /WAR and /NIN are the only options, I am so going /WAR just for the sake that I'm sick of /NIN ONRY OR NO PT!!!!!!LOLOL@ONEONOEONE! The only time I ever go /NIN is when I'm in RNG mode.

in all fairness the only job thats listed on your char information that would benifit /NIN at thier respected lvls is RNG so what does it prove?

[Eiyoko]

But Mom, I don't wanna level my Ninja subjob...

...in all seriousness, my wallet will not agree with it. I'm always poor, how would I ever manage to get Ninja to 37, or even keep it up as a subjob with the shadow thing? I bet I'd slack off with Utsusemi in the end either way, knowing me. x.x

I guess I'll just have to wait and see what else is effective...if this class has to sub Ninja (effective as it may be) as a cookie cutter that would suck.

[Malacite]

Getting NIN to 37 is hardly expensive anymore...

Shiehei has gone way down since all the recent bannings.

[Armando]

Saren: You're not taking into account that your TP while dual wielding is calculated using the average of your two (reduced) Delays, NOT your combined Delay. Also, Haste doesn't affect your Delay (i.e. it doesn't change your TP gain per hit; it stays the same, while you swing faster.)

Malacite, why do you continue to shun /SAM if you're stressing the need for TP so much? Because DNC consumes TP in small, exact amounts, and frequently, they get the full benefit of Store TP (as opposed to Store TP only benefiting a DD in specific amounts, since you can only get to 100 TP in exactly X hits.)

/NIN isn't going to be as effective for DNC as it is for THF. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but Dancer doesn't seem to have access to 99% of all dagger and baselards - they only use knives and kukri. Most knives and kukri have 190-206 Delay, with some HQ versions going down to 186, but hardly any go lower than that except for Blau Dolch at 178 (but Blau is a very expensive weapon and will surely become even more expensive now with the extra demand.) I don't think they get access to Sirocco Kukri, either, but I can't check for sure since it's not sellable on the AH. In other words, they're stuck with the slowest weapons of the dagger family.

Basically, with those dagger Delays, with only DWII the best they can get is a ~10% boost to TP/time, and with Suppa, a ~15% boost. /SAM can match that easily even without a Rajas Ring, and before taking Zanshin (which you seem to be forgetting) and Meditate into account (which, might I add, is useful immediately since for DNC, Meditate isn't just 6/10ths of the TP needed to WS.)

Then comes an important issue: hate. Let's assume two possible scenarios: a) DNC doesn't pull hate often; b) DNC does pull hate often. If DNC pulls hate often, then /NIN helps with Utsusemi, but casting Utsusemi will slow down your TP generation and your damage. /WAR wouldn't be able to use Berserk as often, or he/she'll be end up taking plenty of damage. Both /NIN and /WAR lose part of their edge, while /SAM doesn't lose anything. If DNC doesn't pull hate often, then /WAR still beats /NIN in the damage department while keeping up in TP, thanks to Attack Bonus 1, Berserk, and Double Attack.

Edit: Also, I'm getting tired of all the "oh nos not /WAR and /NIN, /WAR and /NIN are teh lames cos its cookie-cutter!" /WAR and /NIN are cookie cutter because they work better than most other subs. I don't think DNC will lose any of its individuality from subbing either one. Is a PLD/WAR anything like a SAM/WAR or a DRG/WAR? No.

[Kailea]

Armando.... really I did not sound like that at all, I showed what ?WAR and /NIN would be used for in my post... I just dont think people should say those would be the only classes people should yous, or the only two that would be the moste effective, because they are not.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I just find it odd people are so uptight about a new job using old subjobs. I realizer some people feel other subs are underplayed but they are underplayed for a reason:

They don't work so good.

And sometimes a new job isn't going to make them better, though I do expect that in scholars case people might want to take /BLM on from time to time.

For Dancer, another support class that can viably use melee subs like /WAR, /NIN and /SAM should be welcomed because it could get more people into playing (and enjoying) as a supporting role. People have this obsession with needing to hurt things to feel useful in this game and abhor being the support player. God forbid you do anything but damage, helping your allies won't kill you.

Support Classes are mostly what I do, I simply levelled RNG as it complimented my COR. Now there's another support class that uses similar gear. That's a win in my book, means I get to reuse some old stuff and to reuse my other subs and have another use for /SAM is even better.

[DieselBoy09]

When I start lvling it, I will probably sub whm, sam or war. The rest just aren't appealing. I'm honestly waiting till people have experimented a little more, everything at this moment is pure speculation and I don't care for it.

[Malacite]

I posted the wiki links, see for yourself.

The higher up you go the more TP-intensive DNC's abilities become. 40 TP for Curing Waltz II, and I'll bet IV takes at least (maybe less, but that'd be sick). Meditate is really a 1-shot deal and quite Frankyl I find Zanshin doesn't kick in enough to be worth it.

you're right about the equipment though. I'm not sure if it was good or bad on SE's part to exclude DNC from Mercurial Kris, since it's exactly what the job needs. Also, due to the B rank, /WAR may or may not hold up as a DD sub. With Berserk you may just be able to do it, who knows. Double Attack is definitely a big plus. I imagine endgame DNC will want Suppa + Brutal.

DNC is a support job anyway. Oh, and has anyone tested our +CHR yet to see if it has any impact on dances? It seems weird that yet another entertainer job doesn't need CHR

[Armando]

I posted the wiki links, see for yourself.

The higher up you go the more TP-intensive DNC's abilities become. 40 TP for Curing Waltz II, and I'll bet IV takes at least (maybe less, but that'd be sick). Meditate is really a 1-shot deal and quite Frankyl I find Zanshin doesn't kick in enough to be worth it.I saw, but I still don't get it. You still say that as if SAM sub doesn't make as much extra TP with Store TP II alone as /WAR and /NIN do. Zanshin is just icing on the cake. And while Meditate is a one-shot deal, it's still there, and it still helps. Pulling 60 TP out of thin air every 3 minutes would help a lot with your Dances; it's essentially getting 1-3 dances for free.

Also, /SAM would be the best sub for taking advantage of Joyeuse, since Double Attack effectiveness is cut in half when single-wielding a Joyeuse, and dual wielding a Joyeuse would get you out of the sub-180 Delay zone and also dillute Joyeuse's extra TP generation. Joyeuse doesn't gimp any of /SAM's TP-making traits, and Zanshin would help with Joyeuse's D-rank sword skill.

/RNG is another sub that hasn't been mentioned that's also viable. Accuracy Bonus II = +22 Accuracy = +11% hit rate. That could also work wonders for Joytoy.

I think S-E was right to not let DNC have Mercurial Kris. If you're going to make a job that consumes TP to use buffs and debuffs, then it's obviously unbalanced to give it access to a weapon that doubles your TP intake with no catch other than gimping your damage. Joyeuse is only +50% TP gain and that's offset by DNC's low sword skill - I'm sure it's still possible to get TP faster with Joyeuse than with a dagger, but you certainly wouldn't be getting it 50% faster against anything that matters.

EDIT: Never mind about /RNG. Didn't notice DNC gets Acc Bonus I at 30. That seriously cuts into the usefulness of /RNG since the net gain would only be 12 Acc, not 22.

[Lmnop]

Sambas last 2 minutes. Meditate is every 3 minutes. In 6 minutes time, 120 free tp and 3 samba castings. Even with 35 or higher tp costs per samba, this is better than Refresh for mp jobs.

Since Drain Daze is a status effect that only lasts ~5 seconds contingent on each of your melee swings (that's what I'm gathering from FF wiki... I haven't partied with one yet), I can see some issues later on with the job. Namely, fighting HNMs (though I'd doubt Sambas will be what they'll be doing @HNM). However, even hits for 0 damage proc the effect, so that other players capable of doing damage can take advantage of it. This rambling brings me to another point: swinging faster doesn't make you drain more, does it? Wiki also states the drained amount is proportionate to damage dealt. The only advantage of faster swings is more chances to hit to keep the Daze going. Single wielded 200 delay is 3.3 seconds. As long as they keep up 50% accuracy, the effect should be reasonably continuous. And the good ones will have 70%+ accuracy, so I'm not worried about the need to really speed up your attacks (unless it's haste, and thus more tp).

Lol@Galka Dancers having the strongest cures (appears to be VIT based).

[Malacite]

How many times do I have to explain /SAM >_>

Meditate is too sparse to rely on for the higher level dances, since you'll consume almost if not all of the TP you get from it in a single dance (HNMs are another story where you don't want to melee. but as I said before, this DNC needs to melee so they may be hosed here) and you have to understand how Store TP works.

the average TP on a dagger is 4.8~5.2% TP per swing. With Store TP II and a Rajas ring, that'll boost you to around 6 TP a swing at best. I'd rather have berserk and double attack over that personally.

[Armando]

Meditate is too sparse to rely on for the higher level dances, since you'll consume almost if not all of the TP you get from it in a single dance (HNMs are another story where you don't want to melee.But that's still 60 TP you wouldn't other have. You can't stress that dances are expensive and then write off one or two free dances every so often as insignificant.the average TP on a dagger is 4.8~5.2% TP per swing. With Store TP II and a Rajas ring, that'll boost you to around 6 TP a swing at best. I'd rather have berserk and double attack over that personally.And Dual Wield shaves off fractions of a second at best. The boosts are still there and they're not insignificant. Though I have to agree Berserk and Double Attack probably win out in the end.

I just find it silly that you're saying /SAM sucks but /NIN is ok, when /SAM definitely does more for your TP than /NIN.

[Celeal]

Instead of picking a subjob that increase TP gain, how about picking a subjob that reduce the amount of TP usage?

For example, with DNC/BRD, stacking Drain Samba (En-Drain) with Paeon (HP Regen Song): That should cut down the usage of Curing Waltz.

I think the following songs are "economical" when stack with Drain Samba I/II
Lv. 05 song = Army's Paeon I (+1 HP per 3 seconds)
Lv. 15 song = Army's Paeon II (+2 HP per 3 seconds)
Lv. 25 song = Mage Ballad I (+1 MP per 3 Seconds) ----- Backline has more MP, to bridge the gap.
Lv. 29 song = Advancing March (Increase Ally Attack Speed)
Lv. 35 song = Army's Paeon III

Use Curing Waltz I/II as backup healing. Use MP for main healing (from Party's WHM, RDM, etc). The remaining TP should be delicated for Flourish.

Note: I do NOT think DNC's role as a "main healer." For "back up" healing, DNC/BRD should bring more than enough to the table.

/off topic ....

If you want TP, isn't SAM/DNC (yes, SAM as main job) make more sense? ... Joke XD

/off topic ended

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Dancer is a job that is going to need accuracy and TP more than anything else. With the TP Flourish and /SAM's Meditate, DNC may be able to stay self-sufficient and not Depend on a COR+SAM team to keep them loaded on TP.

Support/Support is just giving away and getting little back. A main job should be able to draw benefit from the subjob as a means of staying as self-sufficient as possible in thier main role, otherwise the subjob is a charity that does nothing for the player. I consider that a foolish way to play a job.

I had a BRD last week that went /COR to whore out Corsair's Roll in an ARROWBURN. Guess how helpful Support/Support was there?

Yeah, he died like three times. Had he subbed /NIN there would have been a smaller chance of that happening and had he /WHMed he wouldn't have had to HP two times.

COR/BRD
BRD/COR
DNC/BRD
DNC/COR

All sound good on paper, all great ways to hemmorage EXP and be totally defenseless.

[VZX]

I guess prematurely eating sushi shouldn't be bad >.>
as long as drain daze effect connects

[Celeal]

/SAM Mediate is lvl 60+, so what subjob a DNC is going to pick from 1 - 59?

/NIN DW II at 50.
/WAR Beserk at 30, Double Attack at 50.

At lower level DNC/SAM has Zenshin. At 51 we may be able to "fake" Hasso by swap in Elemental Staff -> Hasso -> swap back to Dagger. (With WAR/SAM I did equip G.Axe -> Hasso -> equip Axe, the Hasso icon and +STR remained, not sure with +ACC and Weapon speed).

At low ~ mid levels I think Drain Samba I/II + Paeon I/II is "self-sufficient."

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

/SAM Mediate is lvl 60+, so what subjob a DNC is going to pick from 1 - 59?

/NIN DW II at 50.
/WAR Beserk at 30, Double Attack at 50.

At lower level DNC/SAM has Zenshin. At 51 we may be able to "fake" Hasso by swap in Elemental Staff -> Hasso -> swap back to Dagger. (With WAR/SAM I did equip G.Axe -> Hasso -> equip Axe, the Hasso icon and +STR remained, not sure with +ACC and Weapon speed).

At low ~ mid levels I think Drain Samba I/II + Paeon I/II is "self-sufficient."

When we're talking /SAM for Meditate, we're obviously talking 60+ Additionally, weapon swaps for DNC would kill thier primary means of support - TP.

But what is /BRD going to do for DNC after 20+? Might be nice for solo, but how is /BRD going to keep that TP coming and landing those hits? Madrigal will barely help and your PTs may not want Madrigal. Accuracy buffs can often be placebo buffs as most apt melee will have accuracy gear prepared. So you could end up singing that to try to get TP at the expense of a better buff for your PT. SAM's Store TP traits stack with Store TP gear and then at 60+ you'll have meditate.

Pre-50 is still up in the air, but /MNK is going to go out of style at some point and /NIN will become stronger as will /WAR. But can /SAM really be denied when DNC gets TP flourish? I think that's a hard one to turn away. Overall, though, I think DNC/melee sub is going to be better than forcing a support class sub on a support class main job for support's sake.

[Celeal]

When we're talking /SAM for Meditate, we're obviously talking 60+ Additionally, weapon swaps for DNC would kill thier primary means of support - TP.

But what is /BRD going to do for DNC after 20+? Might be nice for solo, but how is /BRD going to keep that TP coming and landing those hits? Madrigal will barely help and your PTs may not want Madrigal. Accuracy buffs can often be placebo buffs as most apt melee will have accuracy gear prepared. So you could end up singing that to try to get TP at the expense of a better buff for your PT. SAM's Store TP traits stack with Store TP gear and then at 60+ you'll have meditate.

Pre-50 is still up in the air, but /MNK is going to go out of style at some point and /NIN will become stronger as will /WAR. But can /SAM really be denied when DNC gets TP flourish? I think that's a hard one to turn away. Overall, though, I think DNC/melee sub is going to be better than forcing a support class sub on a support class main job for support's sake.

I never say /BRD to improve TP gain, I never mention any songs that are affected by singing skill, and I never mention ACC song.

What I am trying to say is, with Paeon + Drain Samba, the frequency of using Curing Waltz may reduced. It saves DNC's TP and main healer's MP, and help exp. flowing.

Added:
As for swaping staff for Hasso, you only swap-in when TP is very low (let say at 4~6 TP). Hasso last 5 min, recast timer 1 min. Within the 1 min ~ 5+ min interval there should be chances for swaping.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I know what you're saying. I'm just pointing our the other flaws. BRDs don't use Paeons past Qufim for a reason.

Paeons suck.

Seriously, if I wasn't soloing, having some PT downtime or fighting Maat, I never have had a good use for Paeons. They absolutely pale in comparison to what you can get from WHM's Regens.

[Endier]

At lower level DNC/SAM has Zenshin. At 51 we may be able to "fake" Hasso by swap in Elemental Staff -> Hasso -> swap back to Dagger. (With WAR/SAM I did equip G.Axe -> Hasso -> equip Axe, the Hasso icon and +STR remained, not sure with +ACC and Weapon speed).

I wasn't aware that this could be done. I always thought Hasso was good for 2h weapons only, because when looking at the discription of the ability in game it says for 2h weapons. Any how, using a 2h weapon then using hasso and changing to single handed weapon, would it really keep the full effect of hasso?

[Celeal]

I wasn't aware the this could be done. I always thought Hasso was good for 2h weapons only, because when looking at the discription of the ability in game it says for 2h weapons. But using a 2h weapon then using hasso and changing to singe handed weapon keep hasso effect?

I have tried this with my WAR/SAM a few months ago in exp. party, attempted to cap both G.Axe and Axe. The Hasso icon is there (on top of screen) and the +STR bonus is there (in Equipment Menu window). However, I was not sure about the ACC+ bonus and speed bonus.

[Dim Mahk]

IMO a DNC will be a new "type" of tank. lets face the facts. DNC/WAR will provoke, att, heal, debuff etc. And as anyone with a DNC job knows, doing dance moves create more hate. not to mention the fact that animated flo is a DNC's voke. All the baseline tools are there for the the final sum of it all.
With out TP, DNC is pointless.
Without Danceing, DNC is pointless.
Without the Danceing eff., DNC is meaningless.

[Armando]

DNC/BLU would be a better tank, and DNC/NIN has a chance to be better than /WAR as well.

Pre-50 /WAR offers two things: Provoke, and Defense Bonus I. No blood tank can use Berserk while tanking and get away with it. /BLU's Cocoon trumps Defense Bonus I by a mile, and you'd be able to use DD food no prob. /NIN offers shadows (damage reduction and hate loss prevention) and improved DoT. It's just a matter of holding hate.

[Dim Mahk]

Sounds good to me. I dont have BLU or NIN lvl'd. But its vets like you that offer the cherrie on top or fine tuning it needs.

Thanks for the input. mando

[Prons]

Why would Dancer sub WHM? Dancers don't use HP, and WHMs don't build TP, right?

[Malacite]

Speaking of COR, I'm betting DNC's Roll will be Regain. SCH Roll still baffles me though (and is off topic >. > so 'nuff of that)

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

Has anyone tested if Healing Magic skill improves Curing Waltz? There might be potential for /SCH if it does. B rank Healing Magic greatly improves BLU cures.

[IfritnoItazura]

/BLU's Cocoon trumps Defense Bonus I by a mile, and you'd be able to use DD food no prob.
I've seen this said many times, but it may not be so simple. My BLU hit Lv.40 as a tanking BLU/WAR, and I have to say I had many close calls tanking bats in Behemoth Dominion. Those were definitely not IT++, and I was using Squid Sushi +1 and offensive gears.

My Paladin definitely was better at that level as a tank, both in terms of enmity and safety, even though it had less defense. Shield and Flash did wonders.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Speaking of COR, I'm betting DNC's Roll will be Regain. SCH Roll still baffles me though (and is off topic >. > so 'nuff of that)

Why give COR Regain when we already have Samurai Roll. That would be incredibly broken. Give Regain to a job that could benefit greatly from having it, give it to White Mage. RDM, BRD and COR do not need or deserve it.

Give Corsair a haste roll, its really the only thing we lack. Getting the ability to charge Quick Draws later on would likely make up for the lack of AoE Sleep.

[Armando]

My Paladin definitely was better at that level as a tank, both in terms of enmity and safety, even though it had less defense. Shield and Flash did wonders.Well, I never said it'd tank better than current tanks, just that it'd be better than going DNC/WAR, assuming Animated Flourish is equivalent to Provoke.

[IfritnoItazura]

My point was really that you can't just add Cocoon and say "It'll tank fine with DD food."

Under Lv.30, tanking on BLU/WAR outfitted for DD and on sushi/meat was fairly easy. By Lv.40, I can see first hand that combination to strain in both damage mitigation as well as enmity generation. It's reasonable to assume that DNC/BLU won't more have enmity tools than BLU/WAR, IMO, and lacking shield and Utsusemi mean no better damage mitigation (while counting on Waltz to match BLU's healing spells).

[Malacite]

Well, DNC functions on TP just like SAM, so I figured naturally it'd be Regain since no job can give that buff yet.

[Armando]

It's reasonable to assume that DNC/BLU won't more have enmity tools than BLU/WAR, IMO, and lacking shield and Utsusemi mean no better damage mitigation (while counting on Waltz to match BLU's healing spells).I don't see how Waltz would be inferior to BLU's hate tools. Waltz + Animated Flourishes should be comparable to Cures + Provoke on a PLD. Or at least that's what we'd hope.

[Dim Mahk]

very true statment mando. I really see DNC waltz and a Voke just like. the PLD's ability. however, when I have 150 TP and I wont 100% hate this is the sequence @ Lv23 DNC. Voke >> att >> Drain Sambas >> Waltz >> Quickstep >> anima flo...

and with lil assistance from the WHM I would end a IT fight with 150 TP. and full health. Mind you never loseing the hate for any moment in time. Last pty consisted of MNK, SAM, THF, WHM, SCH and my DNC. it was a fast xp party.