Bows vs Guns? And best sub for a Ranger?

[Critical Mass]

I've heard that a Mythra Ranger/Thief would be good because of the high speed. If I want the highest damage possible out of a Ranger, what would be the best sub and race? Also, do guns outclass bows at higher levels? Guns and Bows both have the same weapon abilities, so it is a choice you make when you start weather you want to spend your time on the bows or the guns or are you basically left with just bows at first and then guns as you start to gain access to the more powerful weapons?

[Sheik]

1.Best Race and Sub for ranger would Mithra beacuse of speed and more accuracy witch you defanatly need,and warrior beacuse of extra attack power and abillities you get.

2.Guns are way better than bows but their way more expensive ammo wise.I dont know the exact price and everything but anyway.

3.Just to tell you why not to sub theif beacuse you kinda need speed but you get i uneeded MST [ mind ] boost that you dont need.

[Semih Neridia]

Gun is better than bow, however, it also has higher price(bullet).

Warrior is a nice sub for ranger. You only have like 1 less AGI than subbing thief, but you have more and better ability instead. Also, subbing warrior will provide you with higher chance of getting into a PT due to the warrior's ability, Taunt.

[Letum]

May I add that I HATE the fact that to be an effective high-level ranger you have to use a gun? What kind of self-respecting nature lover would use a gun? I would play the class in an instant if they got rid of guns and made bows equally as powerful...

Oh well.

[Nameless]

It would be cooler if it was like Irvines, pulse ammo helped me own Omega weapon (especially because Squall wouldn't pull off a lionheart). Then that would make the gun over powerfull too so whatever.

[clyde]

doesnt matter if u was a mithra cus u could still be any other race and just do as good as a mithra, like for mithra u add equipment to raise str, for elvan buy equipment to raise ur agi and dex rite? so it doesnt matter which race u pick

[Nameless]

I hate the fact that people pick their character's race just because they have 1 point more in agi or something. It's kinda annoying that this sways people's ideas on what they want to be, I rather look good and have average points rather than get an ugly character because they're stronger. And besides you'll find a group that likes you for who you are or maybe your friends will play, so you should play how you want and not how people will judge you.

[Magickmedicine]

Dont expect to get into very many groups if your stats arent good nameless.

[Jei]

race doesn't matter. play whatever race you want.
people pick ranger because they are ranger. they don't really care what race you are.

[Nameless]

Thank you Jei.

[Kilgraw]

I'm going to be a Mithra Ranger/Thief that uses only bows. My damage won't be as high as one that uses guns, but I will hit the target a lot more and my weapon skill will be much higher.... That's the plan anyway.

[Kosh]

OK, my understanding is that Rangers start with bows but switch to guns at later levels to do more damage? Is this correct? If so, at what level do rangers get to start to use guns? I'm thinking about a RNG sub class so my character can use a gun but do you get them before level 30?

Or.... if money is not a factor, can you start with guns at early levels? Thanks in advance.

[ShadowHeart]

first gun is Lv. 5 or Lv. 6 !

[Nameless]

You can't use your subs weapons so you can't use guns if you subbed ranger.

[Kosh]

Thanks for the info. Can you tell me what jobs are able to use guns? Besides RNG of course. I have heard that thieves can... anyone else???

[Skyrik]

Only Rangers and Thieves can use guns at the moment.. but after the expansion.. not sure if ninjas can use em too.

[TAbRi5]

my choices
race: Elvaan, wont be as accurate as the Mithra race, but at higher levels Elvann's are stronger than Mithra and will have enough accuracy.
Weapons of choice: only Bow/arrows
Sub Job: Samurai

[tongyang]

Originally posted by StarvingArtist
Guns are more of a luxury, and even the highest level Rangers don't always use them in PTs. One for the sheer cost of bullets, and also the delay is much slower than a longbow. Also, as far as I know they don't connect in Renkei either. Most rangers stick with bows/arrows throughout and use a gun for in-between attacks or some solo shots. It's not very cost-effective.

You'd be wrong :biggrin:

RNGs do renkei. High level RNGs do use guns (until the 4/15 patch).

[puhfyn]

so high level rangers are better off with bows?
I would consider ranger, but I think its stupid that there are guns in this game, only bows would be cooler and fit better with the ffxi world.

[puhfyn]

2 more questions, sorry for double post.

1. best subjob for ranger = THF?

2. Would thf abilities like backstab and sneak attack work with ranged weapons like bows?

[imsoghetto1]

i can answer number 2 sorry man but sneak attack and backstab wont work wit bows

[Kosh]

I would consider ranger, but I think its stupid that there are guns in this game, only bows would be cooler and fit better with the ffxi world.

Tell that to Vincent, Squall, Barrett, Mustadio and any of the chemists in Final Fantasy Tactics.

I think it's great that there are guns in the game. What makes FF a cool universe is it's mix of medievel elements with technology.

[Kilgraw]

Originally posted by Kosh
What makes FF a cool universe is it's mix of medievel elements with technology.
Yeah, this has become one of FF's trademarks. Every single FF has some sort of technological wonder that far surpasses medieval times. Airships have been used since FF1, and I don't recall reading about Airships being used in the 11th century. :rolleyes:


As a sidenote I'd like to say that my Mithra will only be using bows, for the simple fact that I love bows. Don't let people tell you how you should play.

[leo3]

dude I agree the few technological aspects mixed with ancient mysticism makes for some really cool aspects, i.e. magical guns that shoot spells. and yea guns are in ff but didnt come in till like 7 and tactics, but the whole technology thing really started to take off more in 6 and was just a part of it after that.

[puhfyn]

Mustadio's gun is sweet, so was Squall's gunblade.

But the guns I have seen in this game look like shotguns, or sawed off shotguns, i think its kind of stupid. When i think of ranger, i think of a bow. ranger = archer, in my mind at least. I dont want to have to use a gun just because it causes a lot more damage.

[dragoon]

If u don't want to use bows and you dilike the gun ideal use crossbows if they have them.1

[Kosh]

but the whole technology thing really started to take off more in 6 and was just a part of it after that.

Actually I would say the whole technology thing started in FF IV, afterall, they have airships, dwarf tanks and fly to the moon in that game LOL :spin:

[Kilgraw]

Originally posted by Kilgraw
Airships have been used since FF1

[VashtheStampede]

Just curious (or stupid which ever suits you), can you use guns if your sub job is RNG?

[Keji]

You can only use the weapons of your main job. Thf can use some guns too so if your main was theif yes

[(Xer0)]

I believe ninja can use guns also. I read that on another thread. Not sure if it's correct, however. It said that the only jobs that can use guns are RNG, THF, and NIN.

[SiC]

I use WAR as my my sub job whenever I use my Ranger. 2 Main reasons:
1. Berzerk ability to increase damage
2. Defender to protect yourself when you have too much hate towards you.

Whenever a rangers uses his WS (Sidewinder or Slugshot) with Berserk nobody is going to be able to take the target from you. There will be too much hate towards you and the monster will attack you till the end. To protect yourself, you'll need an ability like defender to boost up your defense.

About bows, guns, & crossbows.
Over all, bows and guns are about the same damage if you total it all up for 1 battle. The reason is the time it takes to shoot a gun is alot longer than using a bow.
Most Rangers dont use guns until level 55 or so (when you learn SlugShot). I didn't use any guns until level 54 or so. I used a crossbow to increase my shooting skills instead of using a gun since bullets are expensive.

PS I've used THF as my sub a few times but using WAR has been alot better for me.

[l0rdza0n]

Originally posted by Kosh


Actually I would say the whole technology thing started in FF IV, afterall, they have airships, dwarf tanks and fly to the moon in that game LOL :spin:

(one of the) best. game. ever. :handsdown

[Exsol]

1) okay, from what i understand, Guns are only for High lv Rng due to the fact that you wont have the money (or skill) for them.

2) The best sub for rng is war in the begining, (pt will link it more too) but as Vivid told me, at lv 65+ its good to sub sam cause of the masive amount of tp they get, coupled with the sidewinder ws (perhaps one of the best ws in the game) can yeld quite a lot of damage

3) yes the gun is very strong, but for the love of god save it for lv 60+ the last thing we want is a bunch of lv 6 taru with guns....scary :sweat:

EDIT: btw, you can build you gun skills with a crossbow, so there is no need for a expensive gun early on

[Mila]

Here's my plan based on my understanding of things so far as well as some common sense. I will be a Galka (yea, yea, I know the thing about galka's having low accuracy)Ranger/Red Mage, switching back and forth when I feel like it. I will mainly use Bows and Daggers/1-H Swords, Saving Guns for when I really need it like for boss battles and such. So that brings me to my questions:

1) How are rangers at Melee combat with Daggers/1-h Swords?(give me a ref point like "as strong as theif minus abilities" or "as strong as white mage" ect.)

2) How easy is it to switch from a bow to a gun? For instance: I'm in a battle using the bow until our white mage is in trouble so I want to kill the enemy more quickly. Will I be able to change to a gun in time?

3) I know this is a doesn't pertain very closely to any of the above questions but, how efficient is it to use guilds for ammunition(woodsmithing, alchemy) versus buying them in stores.

Sorry I sound so demanding and I thank you in advance.

[Sirius Black]

Originally posted by SiC
Whenever a rangers uses his WS (Sidewinder or Slugshot) with Berserk nobody is going to be able to take the target from you.

You obviously havn't heard of the Samurai's 5 hit lv 250 WS:
Originally posted by Nodachi
"The sword starts to glow and the samurai actually almost seems to jump up and down while striking" again, lands 5 hits just like penta. The main difference is the element attatched to this WS is light.

I agree that Sidewinder is bad ass, but do that same combo with the SAM (Berserk+WS+SAM AF hate+SAM coolness=more hate) at least I think it would. Then again, Sams can take hits way better than RNGs.

[SiC]

Sirius Black, I dont know if you play FFXI or not but you obviously don't know much about the game.
First of all, my post was made during the 65 level cap days when skills were limited to 223-227.
Second there are NO NEW 250 weapon skills for ANY jobs. There is one light element SAM WS which is called Gekkou and it's a 225 WS (1 strike WS).
Third it's rare for a muti-hit weapon skill to successfully make all hits (all 5 hits or 6 hits etc.) on strong enemies. Even if they do make all 5 hits successfully the current WS's are weak (PentaStrike, Rangeki, Rampage, etc.).

Try playing the game before slamming my post and you'll see that the Sidewinder/Slugshot are the most deadliest WS in the game up to level 70.

[Jei]

Mila >> some of my own feeling :)

1. Rangers are super weak with daggers. because
1.1. most rangers in the game hold an archer knife which is super weak. but it gives +range accuracy bonus.
1.2 ALL rangers in the game wear +range accuracy ring, but that ring -melee accuracy.
That 2 alone make rangers very horrible with their daggers ^^ which is a trade off for their better use of bows/guns.

2. you can manually do it quite easy, you can also make macro for it. but remember that when you switch weapons your TP is reset :D so careful don't ruin your renkei/skillchain with it.

3. most rangers i know make their own arrows. :) I guess it should be nice to do if you go out and hunt for the resources yourself.

[Mila]

Domo arigato! Thanks for the opinons.

[Exsol]

Originally posted by Sirius Black


You obviously havn't heard of the Samurai's 5 hit lv 250 WS:


I agree that Sidewinder is bad ass, but do that same combo with the SAM (Berserk+WS+SAM AF hate+SAM coolness=more hate) at least I think it would. Then again, Sams can take hits way better than RNGs.

Im sorry, but your completely wrong, I havent heard of that WS, even if i did, it could never be as powerfull as you say.
I dont think you understand the godlyness of sidewinder/slug shot.
Im not sure if you even have the game,
--------------
Jei I think your completely right
and to give more answers
1) I hate daggers, so i use a axe or sword in its place, :biggrin:
2)Also, if you even change ammo, it is reset, but a gun wont save the WHM, leave that to the tankers
3)Yes, make your own ammo, i would recomend you build you wood-working and bone-working, befor you get to lv30 and get rng, that way your all set for your ammo

[vagtark]

Originally posted by Exsol


Im sorry, but your completely wrong, I havent heard of that WS, even if i did, it could never be as powerfull as you say.
I dont think you understand the godlyness of sidewinder/slug shot.
Im not sure if you even have the game,
--------------
Jei I think your completely right
and to give more answers
1) I hate daggers, so i use a axe or sword in its place, :biggrin:
2)Also, if you even change ammo, it is reset, but a gun wont save the WHM, leave that to the tankers
3)Yes, make your own ammo, i would recomend you build you wood-working and bone-working, befor you get to lv30 and get rng, that way your all set for your ammo

the reason why you haven't heard of that samurais 5 hit WS is because it was a false rumor.:sweat:

[FFXITsukasa]

I am gonna be a Hume male because I dont wanna be a girl Mirtha and I dont like the looks of the Elvaan. I will be a Black Mage and your saying if I sub a theif or summoner. I cannot use Theif or summoner wapons.

[Chip]

1. Would a RNG/PLD with a bow and sword be a good idea or is that just plain stupid?

2. What about RNG/MNK, would you be able to use the grapples if monk was your sub job?

[zsedc]

chip:
1. RNG/PLD is not the best idea, but neither is it plain stupid, there might be a way for it to work, but you won't know until you tried.
2. there are very few grapples that RNG can equip, your sub jobs will not help you equip those equipments that your main job cannot equip. but RNG do not have skill levels for grapples, so you might depend fully on your sub job (not sure about this, not playing ffxi yet :( ).

[Zurar]

Currently i've been playing my ranger and i like it more and more, though there are a few bugs to be worked out. But far as melee goes, the Ranger's weapon skills are highest in dagger, but the amount you melee with a ranger is so low you don't even have to have a weapon really. I spend all my time back by the mages shooting arrows in for almost as much damage as the mages. Flaming arrow will sometimes double, even tripple my damage even at just 150 TP. I just got Piercing arrow last night so i haven't been able to test that much. And yes Rangers are VERY expensive, even more so than mages. One stack of Wooden arrows with high fame still costs me 297 gil for 99 which i can easily go through in 30 min. Currently i use bone arrows that cost 396 per stack but next lvl i'll be using iron arrows that will cost me 693 gil per stack.

Now, if you ask if it's worth it...if you have a high level character or job to backup the cost, hell yeah! my lvl 12 ranger used 2hr on an incredibly tough check mob and did 158 damage. Rangers also gain 12-14 TP per successful ranged shot compared to a melee's 6-8 per melee hit. Rangers are the highest physical damage dealers in the game so far that i can see.

My character is a Male Hume with warrior sub...why warrior? i get a decent AGI boost (AGI affects ranged accuracy) and also a good STR boost to increase my damage. I currently can hit an incredibly tough mob at lvl 13 about 45-65% of the time.

If anyone has any questions about rangers, feel free to ask and i'll try to answer them.

[Chip]

What could be the best sub job for a RNG? I think NIN or WAR would be the best but im not sure.

[Zurar]

Well, i haven't been able to test Ninja as a sub but Warrior i have and it seems to be the best for balancing accuracy and hit power. Monk subbed increases Vit by 1 point more but all the others go down by 1 point, so monk won't help a whole lot accept for lowering the damage you do take. Ninja will be good for the Ninjitsu so the ranger can use the Ninjitsu version of Blink which absorbs a set amount of damage, like mentioned in another thread, but statwise i'm not sure on Ninja.

[Chip]

Would a RNG wit a WAR sub job be able to hav 2 daggers like the NIN or not?

[Fire]

Chip, no he would not. The dual weild is a ninja only skill.

[fire904]

Is it worth subbing THF just for the extra gil???

[Display]

I dont even have ffxi yet, but im willing to bet alot it would be alot smarter to just level to 30 as thief, then whenever your ranger is strapped for cash, switch back to theif main and get some moneys. Then go back to RNG/nin RNG/sam RNG/war

[Kaizer]

I think people exaggerate the cost of RNG a little too much. You don't always have to use the absolute best arrows to get the job done. I use a level 16 bow with my WAR27 and level 14 arrows. This may seem a little too low but it still gets the job done because even though bows are expensive you can only get a new one every 6-10 (or in my case 14) levels. As for money.. it's not as tight as you would think. I have only a level 5 GS guild and just by collecting fire crystals (or just selling the crystals if you're too lazy) and making ingots I can make well over 10k a day if I needed to. Also for any who are going to be a RNG w/ a bow I suggest leveling bow up first with WAR as they have pretty good skill. As a warrior at level 27 I already have a level 61 bow skill which is not hard to get if you know the right place.

For references on my money sources and spending: Copper Ingots-4k a stack, Brass Ingots-8k a stack, (Fire crystals alone sell for around 2.8k a stack in Bastok).

For those of you who want an easy way to level bow up: I leveled my bow skill 15-55 in Valkrum at level 21ish fighting Goblin Ambushers. They are weak def, low HP and drop glues and fire crystals. (Glue sells for 8k a stack in AH ^^) Right now I'm leveling bow in Qufim against Land Worms, also low HP, low def, and drop zincs which I use in my guilding. (Better than paying 400+ per zinc at Auction)

Any RNG's past 14 I would suggest buying lvl14 arrows in Selbina.
Cost around 750gil for 99 and is better than paying 1200 at the Auction House.

Basically just be what you want to be at first. You can find a way to make money no matter what class you are (though WHM can be a tough one if you have to go solo).

[tomc1988t]

the Ninja idea for sub isnt half bad...2 archers daggers..would add alot to the accuracy....but it could also be a very bad idea ;\...with paladin u get sentinel adds to defense to help u with the hate problem..and with warrior u get defender which has the same purpose as sentinel..but with ninja u dont get anything that adds to defense

[Malabmannop]

tomc you get blink for defence which is way better than the other choices in my opinion. Might be a little more costly, but hey, your're already spending large amounts on RNG why not go all the way over and spend on your ninja too :p

[tomc1988t]

blink dosnt last too long does it??? for a redmage it only lasts 1-2 hits max..how long does it last for ninja??

[Zurar]

it depends on the amount of damage the monster does. 1-2 hits can be alot of damage, especially if it's a special attack, in which case blink will be alot more affective than defender or sentinel. However, in longer duration fights where monsters have lower damage specials, defender or sentinel would be better. You also have to consider duration and reuse times. Defender and Sentinal are active skills that only last a few minutes and have a refresh of like 5 minutes. Where as Blink is more like a spells and lasts alot longer (usually until you're hit) and can be recast alot more. More than anything though, it depends on your lvl and group. The Blink from Ninja will probably be usable alot sooner when subbed than Defender which is lvl 25. If your group has alot of provokers, then chances are you won't take more than a hit or 2, but if it's short on provokers, you'd be better off with the defender or sentinal abilities.

Hope this helps :thumbsup:

[Kaizer]

Yea.. blink is nice... if you've got 100k to buy it in AH.. or 100k to spend on Ten fame to be able to quest it. Either way the likeliness of being able to afford it is slim to none unless you have a high level thief to support your efforts. I would definitely use war as a sub until you have enough money to afford Blink. As with most good things on FFXI.. doesn't come cheap.

[Lopez]

Well, I am currently a RNG on beta, and I use bows, I jus liek the fact of using somethign so old against revolutionary monsters :)
I'm a human and I sub WAR, sometimes BST to use the pet to take the DMG hile i bow the f***er.

[TheKarmaMonster]

How much does the second Archer Knife help, accuracy-wise? I'm still debating Samurai or Ninja...hmmm...accuracy or power...

[Zurar]

Well, it all depends if you want to use Weapon skills alot or if you want to hit more often...personally i'd go for the more Weapon skills, but for either job you have to be level 20 to get the ability to either dual wield or gain Tp faster. Until 20 though i'd recommend Warrior sub for it's hit power and accuracy.

[Thylteev]

Seriously, ammo will be next to NOTHING if you craft it. I bought arrows twice when I was a ranger.