Meriting Path for Ninja

[Eji Kazuma]

Just wanted to grab a few opinions on meriting paths for Ninja, I've talked to a few other ninja's in game and paths they take seem to really differ from player to player.

My main points of concern are in this order...

Evasion
Parry
Ninjutsu
Katana
Spell Interuption Rate
Enmity+
Critical+
etc...

Currently I've only gotten about 3 stages of evasion, and 1 stage of parry. My evasion is capped so 269+6, and my parry is kinda low around 140+2. Because I'm one of the main Ninja tanks for my Endgame, their suggestion for gods and endgame tanking and such was to merit evasion>parry>ninjutsu>katana. I definatly see a difference, just from the 3 stages of evasion+... I evade far more then some of the other Ninja tanks.

But because we are pulling in more Melee, it's getting harder to hold hate just evading... and resists on Ninjutsu aren't UNCOMMON among Sky mobs. Currently my Accuracy is pretty good, so I'm not too worried about Katana merits, but I dunno... I really just wanted to see what everyone else was thinking?

So far I'm only a Ninja 75, I am still considering a second 75, but a few on my list are Thief, Corsair, Paladin, and Red Mage... Not really sure which path I'll take though on my second 75.

[Sevv]

Well it has a big deal to do with what other jobs you are going to be leveling.

Personally for a 75 Ninja only:

8 Hp
5 Str
8 Katana
4 Evasion
4 Parry
4 Throwing
8 Ninjutsu
4 Emnity +
4 Crit +
5 Subtle Blow ( I solo alot)
3 ninja toll expertise
2 Suiton: San
1 katon: San

Currently I've only gotten about 3 stages of evasion, and 1 stage of parry. My evasion is capped so 269+6, and my parry is kinda low around 140+2. Because I'm one of the main Ninja tanks for my Endgame, their suggestion for gods and endgame tanking and such was to merit evasion>parry>ninjutsu>katana. I definatly see a difference, just from the 3 stages of evasion+... I evade far more then some of the other Ninja tanks.

To be honest with you evasion really doesn't mean much in endgame. It is nice and it happens but this is not how you want to set your priorities . Your main gear concern should be a haste stack, 2% or more (don't get lol haste 1% ring) followed by emnity stack, damage reduction, hp, and then evasion. If you are planning to go level other jobs you are going to see those evasion and probably parry merits go away.

Emnity -> HP -> Katana -> Crit -> Ninjutsu -> Evasion -> Parry -> etc etc


But because we are pulling in more Melee, it's getting harder to hold hate just evading... and resists on Ninjutsu aren't UNCOMMON among Sky mobs. Currently my Accuracy is pretty good, so I'm not too worried about Katana merits, but I dunno... I really just wanted to see what everyone else was thinking?

With an emnity stack melee damage isn't even needed (if you solo tank), Key items Eris earringx2 (+1 if you can), Arhat's Gi (+1), Savatta Ring, Bomb queen ring, High Breath Mantle, Trance belt (warwolf) for voke macro, Harmonia's Torque, Nokizaru Shuriken.

Also /drk is very very nice for tanking, need a a few brds and a rdm.



So far I'm only a Ninja 75, I am still considering a second 75, but a few on my list are Thief, Corsair, Paladin, and Red Mage... Not really sure which path I'll take though on my second 75.

Merits will change alot if you want me to break it down for nin+ jobs let me know. Anything else ask more questions here or wait for me and omni's guide (if he ever emails me)

[Omni]

Unless you have capped or close to capped parry, I'd hold off on that for now. You can put those points else where.

For sky, you can evasion tank but hate is always an issue when you evasion tank. If you have slow melee that take forever to line-up and drop a fuidama on you, it's probably not the best thing to do.

But, if you want to evasion tank, it can be done. You just need to have 2 brds in your pt reapplying dual mambo and march.

The one thing with enmity merits is that it'll carry over to your other jobs as well. So if you're going to play pld, that would be nice to have but, if you're playing cor or rdm in the future you might want to be careful.

Sevv: I've just been busy at work and havent even played much at all in the past 2 weeks. I havent forgotten about getting you the info.

[Sevv]

Unless you have capped or close to capped parry, I'd hold off on that for now. You can put those points else where.
For sky, you can evasion tank but hate is always an issue when you evasion tank. If you have slow melee that take forever to line-up and drop a fuidama on you, it's probably not the best thing to do.
But, if you want to evasion tank, it can be done. You just need to have 2 brds in your pt reapplying dual mambo and march.
The one thing with enmity merits is that it'll carry over to your other jobs as well. So if you're going to play pld, that would be nice to have but, if you're playing cor or rdm in the future you might want to be careful.
Sevv: I've just been busy at work and havent even played much at all in the past 2 weeks. I havent forgotten about getting you the info.

Mambo isn't really needed in a haste set up, maybe for byakko if your solo tanking /war because of his triple attack.

I know I have been busy the guide has been on hold hope to get levels 1-50 finished up and posted then work on 50-75 and then sky / sea / hnm / nin/drk / gear set ups.

[Malacite]

Depends on what you want to do with your NIN too. People here don't believe me -_ - but a friend of a friend of mine in game can pull upwards of 500 per level 3 release spell. (That's San nukes for those who don't know; Katon/Raiton/Futon/Doton/Huton/Suiton all mean <element> release, followed by the number.

[Sevv]

San spells can do alot of damagae /blm and the right gear but its expensive as hell to play full time.

[IfritnoItazura]

People here don't believe me -_ - but a friend of a friend of mine in game can pull upwards of 500 per level 3 release spell.

Hey! I want to believe you, but I'm still waiting on that screenshot... >_>

Not Ni, but San, OK?

[Eji Kazuma]

Thanks for the input guys, I still have such a long path to merit my Ninja... can't wait to really get into it. The diffrence I've seen from the Evasion merits thus far alone are really exciting. I'm fairly sure if I DO level RDM to 75 like I want to, it won't be for a long while. I'm not too big on the Magely classes, and I really don't want to have to level 3 subjobs to 37 just to be a good RDM.

PLD may happen, it may not... only reason I'm considering it is because I really do enjoy tanking a lot... and I'd like to not have to remove my enmity merits once I put them in. I think right now, my second 75 is more likely to be either WAR, THF, SAM, or BLU... still not really sure what I wanna be when I grow up =P.

Few more quick questions:
1) Most of the Ninja I've talked to have been pretty gung ho about meriting Crit%+ does the +4% Crit become as visible as the evasion does?

2) Is it worth it to merit spell interruption rate down as a Ninja? Between utsu and evasion I don't see much need here, but I've heard that with enough spell interuption rate down you can run and cast. =P

3) I see you listed to merit Throwing, but not the throwing skill Sange? Throwing damage with boomerangs and chakram is about the same as a katana hit, sooo I'm guessing this is mainly if I intend on using Shuriken?

4) HP merits do sound like a pretty good idea, but how much HP does each merit give?

Aaannnnddd... I think that's all my questions for now... as far as ninjutsu DMG goes, I DO plan to fully merit Ninjutsu so we'll see how the damage is at that point and go from there. If I could land decent damage on Gods and stuff by meriting SAN scrolls and such, maybe I'd be inclined to merit that way... but if It's still either gonna do a grand total of 9-39 dmg a cast on a GoD... I don't see much reason to meriting the san scrolls and such, over much more useful things like subtle blow and ninja tool expertise.

[Omni]

Depends on what you want to do with your NIN too. People here don't believe me -_ - but a friend of a friend of mine in game can pull upwards of 500 per level 3 release spell. (That's San nukes for those who don't know; Katon/Raiton/Futon/Doton/Huton/Suiton all mean <element> release, followed by the number.

well, because i highly doubt you can drop 500 dmg per spell on all types of mobs. doing 500 dmg on imps isnt the same as doing 500dmg per spell on kirin or mamools or whatever.

Sevv... i was talking about an evasion tank setup. you'd need mambo if you went to tank byakko with an evasion setup. you can get byakko to miss you 60%+ of the time. no one does that shit anymore because ppl just tank with haste gear + enmity gear.

[Sevv]

Thanks for the input guys, I still have such a long path to merit my Ninja... can't wait to really get into it. The diffrence I've seen from the Evasion merits thus far alone are really exciting. I'm fairly sure if I DO level RDM to 75 like I want to, it won't be for a long while. I'm not too big on the Magely classes, and I really don't want to have to level 3 subjobs to 37 just to be a good RDM.

If you are going to level Red Mage, merits would change to this:
4 hp
4 mp
5 str
8 Katana
4 eva
4 parry
4 sword/throwing/dagger/etc
8 Enfeebling
8 Ninjutsu
4 Crit +%
4 Spell int -%
5 Subtle Blow ( I solo alot)
3 ninja toll expertise
2 Suiton: San
1 katon: San
5 Convert
3 Lightning
2 Ice
(eles are personaly pref)
3 Slow II (depends on other rdms you play with in endgame)
3 Phalanx II (same as above)

+ Paladin
4eva -> 4 Shield


PLD may happen, it may not... only reason I'm considering it is because I really do enjoy tanking a lot... and I'd like to not have to remove my enmity merits once I put them in. I think right now, my second 75 is more likely to be either WAR, THF, SAM, or BLU... still not really sure what I wanna be when I grow up =P.
Few more quick questions:

War will hurt on emnity merits.
Thf will be boosted.
etc.

Enmity merits are fine if you plan for them.




1) Most of the Ninja I've talked to have been pretty gung ho about meriting Crit%+ does the +4% Crit become as visible as the evasion does?

Evasion really isn't noticeable without gear, but the fact is crit rate helps over all eva merits aren't close to being noticeable I have taken all mine out and evade just as much.



2) Is it worth it to merit spell interruption rate down as a Ninja? Between utsu and evasion I don't see much need here, but I've heard that with enough spell interuption rate down you can run and cast. =P

If you had 100% yes you could run and cast but i think it does have a cap. The server delay allows you to run and cast ichi if you go back to the exact spot you started. It is not a big point, barely noticeable. It is a fall back if you can't merit emnity.


3) I see you listed to merit Throwing, but not the throwing skill Sange? Throwing damage with boomerangs and chakram is about the same as a katana hit, sooo I'm guessing this is mainly if I intend on using Shuriken?

Its just because as solo you have nothing else to merit well and with max skill +merits if your ls is rangerless for gods you can hit them with winds for dispel.


4) HP merits do sound like a pretty good idea, but how much HP does each merit give?

Every hp or mp merit is +10.


Aaannnnddd... I think that's all my questions for now... as far as ninjutsu DMG goes, I DO plan to fully merit Ninjutsu so we'll see how the damage is at that point and go from there. If I could land decent damage on Gods and stuff by meriting SAN scrolls and such, maybe I'd be inclined to merit that way... but if It's still either gonna do a grand total of 9-39 dmg a cast on a GoD... I don't see much reason to meriting the san scrolls and such, over much more useful things like subtle blow and ninja tool expertise.

San spells are nice only put out great damage /blm with a build for nuking. Merits really depends on your full job set.

well, because i highly doubt you can drop 500 dmg per spell on all types of mobs. doing 500 dmg on imps isnt the same as doing 500dmg per spell on kirin or mamools or whatever.
Sevv... i was talking about an evasion tank setup. you'd need mambo if you went to tank byakko with an evasion setup. you can get byakko to miss you 60%+ of the time. no one does that shit anymore because ppl just tank with haste gear + enmity gear.

I have seen san and ni hit for a good amount of damage in wheel spam, Nin/Blm with Int and mab build, hot but expensive.

/drk is sexy that is why. You can solo tank byakko in a damage reduction set up with haste.

[Eji Kazuma]

Yeah... I was hitting 30-40 DMG on wheel spam the other night on Faust... it's not bad considering that it was Faust... ¬_¬ But I'd still like to see a bit more DMG out of the spells in that kind of situation. I'm pretty dead set on Meriting Ninjutsu just to be able to enfeeble some of the higher NMs and such.

For instance, I was able to continuously land Kurayami and Dokumori on Faust, but Hojo and Jubaku were continuously resisted... guessing he has a higher resistance to Ice.

Off topic quick question also, when EQing with the Elemental bonuses, do the +'s and -'s to certain elements apply just to damage taken from that element, or do they also increase strength with spells/abilities of that element?

[Sevv]

Yeah... I was hitting 30-40 DMG on wheel spam the other night on Faust... it's not bad considering that it was Faust... ¬_¬ But I'd still like to see a bit more DMG out of the spells in that kind of situation. I'm pretty dead set on Meriting Ninjutsu just to be able to enfeeble some of the higher NMs and such.
For instance, I was able to continuously land Kurayami and Dokumori on Faust, but Hojo and Jubaku were continuously resisted... guessing he has a higher resistance to Ice.
Faust (http://ffxi.somepage.com/mobdb/2091)

He is ice based.



Off topic quick question also, when EQing with the Elemental bonuses, do the +'s and -'s to certain elements apply just to damage taken from that element, or do they also increase strength with spells/abilities of that element?

I will let a blm explain this to you.

[Malacite]

Damn the non-believers, NIN/BLM ftw.

Like Sevv said though, it is ungodly expensive.

The following is pretty much required to justify spending the millions (yes, freaking millions) on elemental tools.

- H.Q. Staves for each spell
- Moldavite Earring
- Novio Earring
- Uggalepih Pendant
- Crap tonne of INT gear + food

and in the rest of the slots you'll want to try to get in as much haste as you can for the recasts since each San spell is 1 minute recast I believe? The guy I'm talking about has most of this (save Novio, he uses Loc. earring instead and swears by the fast cast) and loves it.

Both my friend and I want to try NIN/BLM badly but cringe at the cost. If you think RNG is bad, you ain't seen nothing. I'm not sure which is worse really, Top Tier Shuriken (quite likely) or /BLM ...

[Omni]

Have him screenshot various mobs for reference. I know that ninjutsu does decent dmg but its practicalness is what im questioning. like everyone has been saying, just post some screenshots and all of us will stfu.

ideally, various screenshots on TW mobs, XP/Merit grade mobs of many different variety (ie: puks, mamools, trolls, colibri, etc) and end-game mobs (ie: sky, kings, sea, dynamis)

i know thats a lot to ss, which is why i said ideally. imps are pretty weak on defense so to me its not entirely impressive. if hes dropping 400dmg on kings then thats something to boast about. no magic-weak mobs either :p

i agree with the cost of gearing for a nin/blm. not funny at all but atleast you can sell all that gear back. not quite the same with rng.

[IfritnoItazura]

I'm not sure which is worse really, Top Tier Shuriken (quite likely) or /BLM ...

I don't think you can "spam" top tier shuriken.

Lv.75 Koga Shuriken: From quests; no history on FFXIAH (Ifrit).
Lv.73 Nokizaru Shuriken: It's "Rare".
Lv.60 Fuma Shuriken: Stacks to 12--you can't carry enough of this to spam, no matter how rich you are.
------------------------------------------
Also, San level -ton Ninjtus have recast of 60 seconds, while Ni level -ton's are at 45 seconds. You can't spam San level -ton's as much as the Ni level, so the casting cost would go down if your friend moved from Ni wheel to San wheel--unless he's using both.

If he's using both, what kind of damage does he claim he's getting out of the Ni wheel at Lv.75?

[Omni]

I think he meant the cost to gear for a nin/blm?

Ninjutsu tools arent terribly expensive and like you said, 1min cool down isnt really spamming. :p

taru edit: 2-9k for each stack of elemental ninjutsu. not terribly expensive when you're only going at 1ninjutsu/min.

[Malacite]

http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=5308&sid=26&stack=1 100k

http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=5309&sid=26&stack=1 30k

http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=5310&sid=26&stack=1 49k

http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=5311&sid=26&stack=1 120k

http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=5312&sid=26&stack=1 49.9k

http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=5313&sid=26&stack=1 60k


Not too bad now I guess, but those prices were insane not that long ago. Used to add up to a million. now it's 409k for 12 stacks of each tool. Still pretty crazy, and it sucks ass that SE made shuriken so hard to get a hold of. Shuriken have always been NIN's best weapon in FF (which IRL, makes no sense as it's purely a diversionary weapon) but never quite this difficult to obtain.

Even in FF3 you could gather up quite a few if you wanted despite the obscene cost. I'd like to see SE make throwing and ninjutsu more accessible for the general player base rather than just the rich. It's one of the reasons NIN gets pidgeonholed into tanking - it's the cheapest play style ><

[IfritnoItazura]

I think he meant the cost to gear for a nin/blm?
He's giving toolbag prices from FFXAH, so, looks like it's about the tools.

[Sevv]

The cost of gear and tools for upkeep is insane, if you want damage screenshots Itaz fubalicious probably has them, he just doesn't have novio.

[Eji Kazuma]

The more I look into this the more I really think that those elemental + and -'s really do effect the potency of my own spells and/or their resist rate.

Upon inspecting my gear I did find two major detracters from my Ninjutsu debuffs... Scorpion harness has a -15 to Ice (I believe) on it, a +15 to Darkness and a +15 to Water. I also wear the Sniper's Ring which gives me a -20 to Darkness... so in the end I wind up with a +15 water, a - 15 ice, and a -5 to darkness.

Because Dokumori is water based, and Kurayami is darkness based, this would explain why my resist rate was the least on these two spells, however both Hojo and Jubaku are Ice based I believe and this would also explain, aside from the fact that Faust himself is ice based... why my resists on Hojo and Jubaku were so frequent...

This makes sense to me... so I'm guessing it's the truth... that or just a very strange coincidence...


As far as Nin/Blm goes, like I said before... I really do ENJOY Ninja tanking... it would really be hard pressing to have to fall back to the backlines and just cast Ninjutsu over and over again... On the opposite side, I would like my Ninjutsu to deal a bit more damage just to be a viable source of damage while soloing...

[IfritnoItazura]

Upon inspecting my gear I did find two major detracters from my Ninjutsu debuffs... Scorpion harness has a -15 to Ice (I believe) on it, a +15 to Darkness and a +15 to Water. I also wear the Sniper's Ring which gives me a -20 to Darkness... so in the end I wind up with a +15 water, a - 15 ice, and a -5 to darkness.

I think those just adjust your own resistance to various elements--defense only, in other words.

Going by the language in BLM and RDM merits, to affect your offensive spells, you'd need to have equipment with element accuracy+ and potency+ (e.g. Ice Magic Potency, Ice Magic Accuracy) to improve accuracy and damage done from matching spells. Of course, non-element specific adjustments like Magic Accuracy, Ninjutsu skill, and Magic Attack Bonus should work for -ton Ninjutsu.

Going to call it placebo effect.

[Eji Kazuma]

I hope that's thr truth, the simple fact that Faust is Ice based would explain him having a high resistance to both Hojo and Jubaku enough for me... here I was worried I'd have to toss off my ol' reliable Scorp Harness for reliabillity on enfeebs...


Whew.... ^_^;

[Malacite]

it would really be hard pressing to have to fall back to the backlines and just cast Ninjutsu over and over again...


You're gonna end up tanking anyway if you're landing 400+ damage spells every 2 seconds >_>b

[IfritnoItazura]

I hope that's thr truth, the simple fact that Faust is Ice based would explain him having a high resistance to both Hojo and Jubaku enough for me...

OK, but Hojo is Earth aligned... >_>; Ice based creatures should resist Ice and Wind, I think. No idea why Hojo would be especially resisted... ◀/sigh▶

[Eji Kazuma]

Are you sure Hojo is Earth based? It's got the light blue icon last I checked...

[Nuriko]

It would be odd for it to be something different from the element of the corresponding spell, Slow...

[IfritnoItazura]

You're gonna end up tanking anyway if you're landing 400+ damage spells every 2 seconds >_>b

Well, that's technically wrong, since it's 2.5 second cast time for San level Ninjutsu.

Given the 60 second recast, if you managed to hit the 50% haste cap for spell recast, you'd still be limited to 6 cast (the wheel) every 30 seconds, or one spell every 5 seconds on average over time. Not sure if it's possible to hit that kind of haste with enough MAB and INT gears needed to still do 400+ damage on exp grade monsters.

Of course, I'm still waiting on the screenshots of 400+ damage per shot on San. (Sev mentioned something, but I've no clue what he meant...)

Are you sure Hojo is Earth based? It's got the light blue icon last I checked...
Not "proof", but here's Hojo: Ni (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Hojo:_Ni) info.

[Eji Kazuma]

Naw, I checked as soon as I got home, Hojo is definatly Earth based... my booboo... it's a brown icon not a blue one... dunno what I was thinkin'.

Anyway, thanks again so much for all the information guys.

[Sevv]

fubalicious on ifrit, send him a tell he will demonstrate nin/blm to you itaz