weapon choice for RDM

[kawirider04]

hey guys, ive been and on-off FFXI player and got back into it again the other night. I used to always play BLM but i have decided to go to RDM as i still like hand-to-hand and spells..... my question is, should a RDM be using weapons such as staves, or go for knifes or swords with shields?

thanks.
Chris

[Necropolis]

Pre-level 51 a dagger or sword will suit you fine. Sword in the lower levels, dagger as more weaponskill become available.

At 51 and above the elemental staves are highly suggest not for damage, but for thier hidden latent effects for casting.

I think you may be a little disappointed with rdm if you wish to melee in most exp parties. Early levels you can either main heal or melee, with a mix of both, but as you near level 40 with convert and 41 with refresh, you'll find you're not overly welcome to melee in most party situations.

Once you level 41+ with the tools of dispel, Convert and Refresh your role in party will commanly be as healer/enfeebler/support role job. This role is strengthed at 48 with Haste and 51 with the elemental staves with help you prefrom your other support roles. You'll meet a lot of resistance trying to melee as your progress, but up to you of course if you wish to do so. Just don't be surprised if parties request that you don't melee or request that you leave.

Even after level to 75, rdms are great soloers. But their more notable kills (such as sky gods, fenrir and the ilk) are done without meleeing at all. Typically Damage over Time (DoT) spells and occasional nukes are all they use to kill things. Occasionally they use low delay daggers and enspell damage to kill things as well.

There are a myriad of possibilites of ways a rdm can do things, however in exp melee is not typically an option. If you're really interested in mage/melee jobs, Blu might fit what you need a bit more. They are kinda of polar opposites of rdm. Rdm are mage first, melee seconds; blu is melee first, mage second.

I suggest giving Callisto's guide a read though. It's designed more for endgame, but may give you an impression of what a rdm does.

http://www.savefile.com/files/1015968
Keep in mind it's still a work in progress, and is one rdm's opinion based on experience.

[Evion]

I'm a level 42 RDM now, and lets just say, the melee stops at around lv 30. Its not that you can't deal some damage. Or, that you can't deal some damage in between casting spells. Its that your whiny ass pt members will be bitching the whole time. If your not casting, your resting, basically. Once you hit 41, its completely done... It sux because I like to get those few swings in between Refresh, Cure II, and Dispel/Para/Slow too.

[IfritnoItazura]

Before Lv.51, you'd want to cast spells. Many important spells depend on MND (e.g.Paralyze, Slow, Silence). Wands provide very nice boost to MND (and INT), but they aren't very good for damaging enemies. So, your choices are:
1. Gimp your spells, and cast without wands.
2. Forget melee'ing for the most part, and cast spells using wands.
3. Melee with sword, macro switch to wands for spells, and lose TP.

I suggest you don't chose option 1 (ever), and don't choose option 3 whenever critters have AoE damage move (e.g. Goblin) or sleepga (e.g. Mandagora) or other nasty moves. The rest of time, option 3 is OK if you're able to keep up with mage duties.

After level 51, if you're not casting with elemental staves in exp parties, you're doing it wrong.

At any level in most parties, your priority should be your spells' effectiveness and the MP to cast them, IMO. That means the safe route is the right weapon for spells (MND, INT, or elemental staves), and rest for MP whenever you can. YMMV.

[Necropolis]

Personally while taking RDM from 18 to 37 I didn't join parties as a mage so much as a melee. Personally I like going Rdm/nin and dual wielding sword and dagger. The reason being is that I wanted to have both skills capped and that was the easiest way for me to do so.

/Nin is exactly the most effective since I didn't have dual wield II trait yet, but stacked with enspell damage I did quite ok as a melee. However most times, when you're invited to a party you're invited as a healer/enfeebler. The mnd boost from wands won't help too much for cures at that level, but could effect your enfeebles to some degree. The Int will help more with nukes as well as enfeebles.

Personally before traveling down the Rdm road, I'd suggest leveling Blm and Whm as subs; as well as having a melee sub available if you find yourself in a party where you're welcome to melee. The advantage of leveling both Blm and Whm before hand is that you'll have most of your shared magic skill at or near cap for the level. Since Rdm has Divine, healing, elemental, enfeebling, enhancing, as well as dark magic skill it can be trying to keep all those capped.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I'm a level 42 RDM now, and lets just say, the melee stops at around lv 30. Its not that you can't deal some damage. Or, that you can't deal some damage in between casting spells. Its that your whiny ass pt members will be bitching the whole time. If your not casting, your resting, basically. Once you hit 41, its completely done... It sux because I like to get those few swings in between Refresh, Cure II, and Dispel/Para/Slow too.

That's not why.

Its because as your role progresses, you aren't able to gain enough TP per fight to make melee worth it, moreover, your gear setups grow too complicated for you to keep adequate melee gear on hand most of the time.

You haven't even gotten to the staves yet, that's eight more items in your inventory slot. That on top of macroing AF in and out with other pieces of gear.

And I can tell you as a COR that even we can't have it both ways, its just our magical side is so limited that it makes the melee angle more sensible to favor. I have as much, if not more, macro-swaps on COR than I did RDM. If I'm called to /WHM or /NIN my playstyle options are just as boxed-in as RDM's are and I generally don't get to melee when I sub those, either.

[Evion]

What's funny is with my AF sword and decent gear with Enblizzard, I can deal as much damage to Beetles in Altepa as anyone else in the PT. While also refresing PLD and WHM and Dispelling the Beetles' defense boost. Who's the best job at 42 I wonder....

[massaranger]

Blau and Joy is what i use atm until i get mandau

[IfritnoItazura]

What's funny is with my AF sword and decent gear with Enblizzard, I can deal as much damage to Beetles in Altepa as anyone else in the PT.

Hmm. Was that an eye balled observation, or did you parse that? And, what was your gear setup?

I'd thought by then, the lower skill in weapon would start to impair accuracy significantly.

[Armando]

Sounds like eyeballing to me. But at 42 the difference between A and B is 6 skill points, which is 3% hit rate. Enspell damage should cover the 6 Attack point difference so it's possible, assuming you have melee gear and melee food.

EDIT: Although I doubt a RDM can keep up with a two-handed weapon user now.

[IfritnoItazura]

I don't know, Armando; -3% hit rate, lack of powerful DPS weapon, plus all the time spent casting and resting for MP. If keeping TP, then there's loss of MND/INT to be considered from not switching to wand. If macro switching, inevitably one would end up melee'ing with the wrong weapon/gear some of the time, further lowering DoT output and tossing TP. If using melee food, then it's giving up with hMP or MND.

Trying to keep up with dedicated melees forces a lot of compromises, IMO.

I think it's just much better to recommend Red Mage to be played as a back line job in general. It's already darn complicated just trying to figure out if Hasting oneself is worth the MP for a chance to squeeze in an extra tick of resting, nevermind trying to cram in melee gear along with mage gear and to find macro space for all.

[Armando]

Oh, I never said it was worth it. Just that it might not be so far-fetched that a RDM could do as much melee damage as a run-of-the-mill pick-up non-2-handed DD at 42.

I totally agree with you.

[Pteryx]

To the OP, I'll say this: while early on RDM can melee, I found my damage falling behind too much to justify the TP I was feeding the mob by 25. If you want to be a meleeing caster in XP parties, your best bet is to unlock Blue Mage once you get a job to 30. -- Pteryx

[Icemage]

To the OP, I'll say this: while early on RDM can melee, I found my damage falling behind too much to justify the TP I was feeding the mob by 25. If you want to be a meleeing caster in XP parties, your best bet is to unlock Blue Mage once you get a job to 30. -- Pteryx
I concur completely.

I have RDM at 75 and have been steadily pushing Blue Mage up (level 28 as of last night). Blue Mage is so much more effective at damage than RDM it's not even funny.

If you really want to be a spellcasting sword wielder, get a job to level 30 and unlock Blue Mage. Red Mages don't melee much beyond 30, even with Centurion Swords available (ATK+4 ACC+3).


Icemage

[IfritnoItazura]

I'd agree as well; go for Blue Mage if you want to be an 'A' ranked swordsman with powerful magic.

Just leveled my BLU from Lv.28 to Lv.30 a few hours ago; the damage/MP ratio was at 4.16. That was mostly on BLU/WHM (was BLU/NIN for a while). I've never seen the ratio that high on my BLM.

[Callisto]

You haven't even gotten to the staves yet, that's eight more items in your inventory slot. That on top of macroing AF in and out with other pieces of gear.

I need another gobby bag to be added to this reason. I'm pretty much one piece away from not being able to carry all of my casting gear and my melee gear at the same time. :cry:

I never thought having too much good gear would be a hindrance!

As far as COR goes I really don't swap too much at the moment, but from 70-72 I'll begin having 2 separate sets for TPing and WS'/Quick Draw.

[Khidir]

well to elaborate on rdm solo and weapons

I'm personally a 'swear by the dagger' type rdm, vs mp mobs (once you get Energy Steal/drain) it can be lifesaving for solo and you have extra mp to nuke,heal yourself, debuff,buff,etc.

Daggers are best on mobs that resist physical damage or have mp ie crabs, bugards(none),etc. (i'll add more once i remember the rest)

best example of this is beestinger or hornetneedle fast strokes of enspell with a dagger's low damage adds up quick on hi def mobs with lots of hp

Swords are best on 'normal' mobs that resist magic damage well ie demons,etc.(again more later)

little example that sticks out of my head recently on weapon choice is Mischevious Micholas (monkey nm of yuhunghta jungle)

I regarded this nm (around 65ish) fairly hard because I mainly used daggers when i solo. The nm has lots of hp and hits hard but doesnt have hi def; fighting this nm(68 atm) with a dagger with /blm would take my mp pool plus convert and be left with about 75mp after the fight.

When I used sword my DoT increased signifgantly(duh kinda) since it hit harder and it was a much easier fight due to stronger wses and stronger hits.


In a nutshell: dagger is good for fights that are long drawn out against an enemy with special defense abilities or mp, sword is for enemies without them

[Draconi]

I melee alot as RDM, usually when soloing, doing missions, quests, skill-up parties, helping people break latent, etc. But I never melee in exp parties... not because I can't, but because there's usually too many other things that are higher priorities (the one exception might be Colibri). There are alot of opportunities to melee as hi-level RDM, but exp parties is not one of them.

I typically carry about 45 pieces of gear for RDM, which includes gear for melee, nukes, enfeebles, healing, etc., and swap in and out constantly. My melee gear adds +35 Att, +14 Str, and +24 Acc (not counting food), and I have no problem doing decent damage. My best Savage Blade was 2064 (on the Boreal Hound), but in an exp party I'd never gain enough TP to use SB, because of constant gear swaps.

[Raydeus]

While the OP hasn't replied at all in the past days I just want to mention that:

1) RDM has no staff skill so you can't use them for anything but casting.

2) RDM are decent melee up to 50, and there's no reason for a RDM not to melee before level 41 (unless the RDM is main healer of course).

3) But you gotta sub whm or blm regardless, melee subs fail on xp parties as the little added dmg doesn't compensate for the lack of support spells (except for cases like when the RDM is filling for another role like tanking/dd and has enough support).

4) Even if RDM could melee up to lvl 50 after level 41 is better to stop meleeing and focus on support.

5) At lvl 51 when we get elemental staves meleeing while in a xp party simply dissapears from our option list, sincee a weapon you don't have any skill for will be in your hands at least 3/4 of the time.

6) RDM should have Sword, Dagger, and Shield skill capped for soloing and use the weapon most apropiate for the situation while outside xp parties.

7) Dagger is a more versatile weapon that can be used as offensive or defensive depending on the situation (this is the weapon I use 3/4 of the time at higher levels). It has weak weapon skills until you get Evisceration, but compensates with more Enspell dmg and endurance against Magic mobs with weapon skills such as Energy Steal and Energy Drain.

8) Sword is an offensive weapon, you use it to deal damage and sometimes stun a spell. Best weapon earlier in the game (before RDM gets Cyclone and the Steal weapon skills) against magic resistant monsters or while subbing WAR DRK or PLD.

9) If you aren't dual weilding you'll have a Shield in your off-hand.

10) Equip macros are your best friends. A basic macro is /equip main "weapon's name" (You have to add " " if the name has more than one word")


And I think that's about it. :thumbsup:

[Callisto]

It does depend on which weapons you actually own as well. If you own a Blau Dolch, your DoT and WS damage might be higher than with a mediocre sword. I have an Enhancing Sword and a Joyeuse to choose from, so even if I'm just trying to crank out Enspell damage a Sword is still my best bet, compared to my best dagger being a mediocre Thanatos Baselard.

[Raydeus]

That's true.

[WishMaster3K]

IDK wtf you guys are talking about. If you don't use clubs main hand as a RDM, you're a fucking noob.

[Khidir]

LoL

and yes callisto it's very true

personally I want to get a mensur epee and try that out, solo it's base damage is like 43 (more than joy toy-35)

so hopefully when i get both it'll be mainhand mensur and off-hand joytoy for tp gain solo.


I'm still using my gold sword (38 base ftw) and I love it^^; cant wait to upgrade it though

[Callisto]

IDK wtf you guys are talking about. If you don't use clubs main hand as a RDM, you're a fucking noob.

Just something for lulz, the other day I stunned Suzaku's Firaga III by hitting him w/ a Weapon Bash while wearing a Treat Staff II. 12 damage ftw.

[WishMaster3K]

More importantly is how the hell you got TP.

Oh wait, you're Callisto. You were born with Auto-TP. >.<

[Callisto]

Nono, the DRK Job Ability Weapon Bash from going /DRK, can only use with 2H weapons. The last patch buffed the hell out of the Bash JA's, the stun effect is now much more reliable. Suzy opened w/ Firaga III and I was standing next to him within range to use the JA. /DRK ftw!

But I do build TP on area mobs before big god/hnm fights, another Spirits Within never hurts anything!

[WishMaster3K]

Oh, I thought that was a Staff WS. Shows how much I use Staff and/or DRK sub.

[IfritnoItazura]

2) RDM are decent melee up to 50, and there's no reason for a RDM not to melee before level 41 (unless the RDM is main healer of course).
Sure there are reasons not to be in the front line melee'ing; AoE attacks (e.g. Dream Flowers), and resting for MP is usually a good idea when not casting.

9) If you aren't dual weilding you'll have a Shield in your off-hand.
Usually true, but if you're not getting hit, shield is useless.

[Mhurron]

Usually true, but if you're not getting hit, shield is useless.
Looks.

[Raydeus]

Usually true, but if you're not getting hit, shield is useless.

What is added defense for AoE attacks?

I'll take lolPLDdd for 200 next, Alex.


Edit >
RDM75/MUR37

[WishMaster3K]

Well the Genbu shield has nice stats, and it's a lot better to have it.

Oh yeah, and I discovered that Parry procs before shadows are absorbed. So... Yeah.