How are you preparing for Dancer?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Unless the subsequent job announcement(s) blow me away, I'm pretty much decided I'll be doing Dancer from the day it starts until I hit the AF levels, in which I'll likely stop to take a break and see where it goes.

Without any other information to go on but the descriptions that exist, I've chosen to push four subjobs out of the way. I've also elected Kitten to be the Dancer between both characters.

THF, RDM, BLM and BLU are the subs I'm looking at. RDM is the only one I'd be starting from scratch on with kitten and that and BLM aren't going to be hard to finish.

They were hinted to have magic that rivals BLM's so I think BLM, BLU and RDM are good investments, particularly for MAB, Fast Cast and other traits you could gain. They're subs I eventually would have wanted worked out for COR anyway.

THF I needed for BLU sub also, But it seems like Dancers are DDs with some degree of enmity involvement as well, so I didn't want to put this one off much longer. Helps with farming in advance anyway.

WAR, WHM, NIN are already done. I'd do BRD if I didn't already have COR done and the subs are kinda the same-ish. /BRD still remains a low priority as I think is kinda pointless to sub something just for ballad (though I'm sure someone will swoop in to disagree). I just hate subjobs with no good job traits, BRD and NIN need some work from SE in that regard.

That aside I've started looking over enfeebling gear and acquiring some key daggers in advance as well. some of this stuff is just normal NM camping for me, so I'm just setting some stuff aside and selling the rest. Some people suspect CHR gear might be needed, but CHR is pretty easy once you get past 40 and if CHR were a factor for Dancer, I think Monster Signa would still likely be the same heap of crap it was to BRD and BST.

AGI gear isn't something I'm lacking since I'm already COR. Evasion gear could be something worth considering as well.

[Murphie]

Since I know nothing at all about the job, especially what kind of role it will play in the game, what stats will be important, or what kind of gear (beyond a dagger) that it can use, I'm not preparing for it at all. There is no preparation that I can conceive of that would have any bearing on a job that we know nothing about.

I mean, I guess you could cap your dagger skills.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Sharing ideas is how insight and other ideas are created. We take what we do know and can come up with some good plans and possibly good results. Even if we turn out to be wrong, we've gotten some bases covered and little time was wasted. And maybe a thought that hadn't been considered might come up that benefits all interested parties. Even if I'm wrong about the gear, I can turn around and sell it.

If you have no ideas to share, I can't imagine why you'd feel compelled to reply.

[Murphie]

I did have an idea to share. That idea was that there isn't any real way that you can prepare. You can spitball, and try to guess what the job might do and prepare for that, but otherwise, not so much.

I also shared the idea that it was probably smart to cap dagger skill.

Just because I didn't respond with an idea you found merit in doesn't mean that I didn't contribute.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I would say capping dagger is pretty obvious, but even if you didn't you'd probably do so along the course of the job anyway. I got two daggers to break, I don't think most people will be hurting on the dagger thing.

The only real thing we can speculate about daggers is the Rating and kinds of dagger Dancer would get. I don't expect them to be too far behind THF and COR on Daggers.

People keep saying we know nothing. We do know some stuff, what we don't know is the ultimate translation to FFXI. See before the RDM identity crisis in FFXI, Dancer had been the premiere enfeebler. We also know that Mog is probably far and away the most popular interpetation of the class.

While it may or may not retain the Geomancy elements Mog dabbled in, we do know that these dances are said to rival the highest sorcerer's spells, so magic is definitely there and its knack for enfeebling probably isn't too far behind

[jenova_9]

I'm gonna try Dancer/Warrior.

and if parties don't accept that or either Dancer/Monk, then I'll solo if I have to! XD

personally I don't believe Dancers will be limited to just knives.

plus we have to consider that Dancer will have all it needs for beginners who don't even have subjob unlocked yet. so it will learn some useful traits/abilities early on I'm sure.

so Dancer will definitely have skills up to lv. 18 that'll help it support the party without need of subjob but of course a sj would help.

[Balfree]

I hope DRG, SAM, THF amongst others are acceptable subs if not main subs.

WAR WHM BLM subs are getting old.

[jenova_9]

aaah hopefully they give Dancer some really useful job traits and abilities.

also do you think Dancer will have it's own class of spells?

I wonder if they would even count as magic since the Dances in FFT never consumed MP at all.

well it would be awesome if Dancer spells don't require MP.

so we're thinking about Traits, Abilities and Spells/Dances.

but I think the "Spells" should be regarded as different types of Dances, since I feel they shouldn't depend on a magic pool. oh ya and hopefully each ability/spell has plenty of graceful and unique dance animations for each one. :)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I hope DRG, SAM, THF amongst others are acceptable subs if not main subs.

WAR WHM BLM subs are getting old.

/BLM is actually underutilized as a subjob and /WAR actively discouraged in burn setups. /WHM may feel "old" but its utility cannot be denied. I want SE to change mobs so /WAR has to be a factor again, I'm sick of subbing Gimpja just people people are scared of getting hit or don't want to heal.

I do hope as far as other melee jobs go, SE does with some of them what they did with /SAM. A lot of the Advanced jobs are just very poor subjobs and don't feel like they were built for subjob use. Everyone thinks /NIN is overpowered or awesome, but to me it still feels very incomplete. When you sub /NIN, its for two things - Dual Wield and Utususemi - I think that's as lame as subbing /BRD only for Ballad.

I go RNG/NIN and I still have all the JAs I did before without subbing anything. I sub /WAR or /SAM and that list practically doubles. Each time I sub /NIN on COR part of me dies because I know I have nothing to reset with Random Deal or Wild Card. Being able to reset things like Divine Seal, Berzerk or Barrage is fucking hot and when I go /NIN I get nothing to reset from /NIN. Its just a meritpo sub for puller monkies. For the love of GOD give /NIN some JAs.

I'd like to see DRG get boosted as a sub, but High Jump's placement really kills a lot of potential. I'd like to see them lower that ability down to 25 or 30 to give it some space.

THF I'm just hoping gets a big overhaul in light of Dancer since Dancer may be another Dagger specialist. THF's problem is that its too good as a subjob to the point it damages it as a main job. THF needs more buffing on the post-37 side.

[Balfree]

Yea youre right BLM isnt used that much, i guess only RDM sub it nowadays.

[jenova_9]

well BLM is better served as a main class than a sub anyways, otherwise might as well sub RDM cause people are addicted to Refresh.

I would like for Dancers to equip Knuckles besides Daggers otherwise subbing MNK would be pretty useless.

but there's no telling if Dancers might get an exclusive new weapon class they can use, like Fans, Ribbons and Whips.

[Illuen]

well BLM is better served as a main class than a sub anyways, otherwise might as well sub RDM cause people are addicted to Refresh.

I would like for Dancers to equip Knuckles besides Daggers otherwise subbing MNK would be pretty useless.

but there's no telling if Dancers might get an exclusive new weapon class they can use, like Fans, Ribbons and Whips.

Tiny nitpick, but Refresh isn't subbable, unfortunately D=.

[Balfree]

All hell would break lose if it was.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I want the Refreshes to stay right where they are.

So all you little monkeys still dance for me.

[Kixxi]

I recently expressed on FFXIclopedia that I have an inkling that this job may be another Dual Wield one. I understand from previous FFs that Dual Wield did become a trademark NIN Job Trait (bar some of the earlier FFs where anyone could equip two weapons regardless) but my reason for this is that Dancers, IRL, are graceful with all aspects of their bodies, and coupled with the lightweight dagger, we may see them dancing about with this weapon in each hand.

Another reason I came to thinking this was from the old Warhammer Elvan Wardancers who used two weapons when they went into battle.

Being able to Dual Wield may reduce the need to sub /NIN all the time, and may lead this job to become another melee/mage DD hybrid - daggers coupled with "sorcerous cants" (maybe the two-hour could be the Moonwalk where all baddies on screen drop dead to the tune of Smooth Criminal).

[Balfree]

yea why should dual wield be restricted to ninjas anyway

[jenova_9]

ya SE should make Dancer as fun, flexible, multi-purpose, affordable, and inviting as possible!

but chances are they won't be so generous...

[Karinya]

None of the dancers in the trailers are dual wielding.

I don't see any reason in previous FFs or in common sense to make dual wielding inherent to DNC. If you want dual wield that bad you can sub NIN for it; if it's not as important to you as berserk or sneak attack or whatever else, then sub for those things instead. Building in DW would reduce the diversity of subjob choices and is unnecessary.

Making Dancer, or any other job, a superpowered awesome-at-everything job would be a supremely bad idea, which fortunately SE has more sense than to implement.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

None of the dancers in the trailers are dual wielding.

I don't see any reason in previous FFs or in common sense to make dual wielding inherent to DNC. If you want dual wield that bad you can sub NIN for it; if it's not as important to you as berserk or sneak attack or whatever else, then sub for those things instead. Building in DW would reduce the diversity of subjob choices and is unnecessary.

While I would have agreed with this a few months ago, its pretty clear to me that some aspects of the game have been allowed to go on for too long that the dominance of other trends are now limiting the potential of hour you play jobs.

SE has options:

(1) Make mobs HARDER, even the ToA ones. We've been playing pattycake in meritpo for too long now. WotG takes place during a war, the beastmen's new armor better not be for show and they should be a hell of a lot meaner than ever. Increased difficulty forces new tactcs. If we fight IT++ again, that changes things, you can't burn them the same way.

(2) Give jobs some freedom. WARs do not want to be tanks, apparently. NIN and PLD are forced to sub WAR to be tanks for most of their levels. Maybe a native provoke from within those jobs or given to another would afford them some subjob options. It needs to happen either by main, sub or new jobs.

(3) Make Utsusemi: Ni exclusive to NIN.

OR

(4) Give other jobs comparable damage mitigation abilities within the main jobs. Players sub NIN because they are chickenshit and greedy, not because it has Dual Wield. DW is a distant second to Utsusemi for most people. SAM got Seigan, DRK got Dread Spikes, DRG has Jump, RDM/WHM/BLU have Blink and Stoneskin abilities. There's room for more.

[Taskmage]

Not that it isn't a valid discussion to have, but do we really want to turn this thread into another brawl over overarching gameplay concerns?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Yeah, probably not.

Its just SE constantly does these late revisions to jobs based off long-term complaints, yet they let these broken trends continue in the face of them. If "leave some things broken" is going to be the way they do things, they probably need to make some compromises on the original design. I don't think giving PLD their own Provoke or another job Dual Wield would be game-breaking.

Anyway, enough of that little tangent.

[jenova_9]

technically, Flash is PLD's "provoke". well at least for me, it really works 99% of the time. even saved some low levels from aggro using Flash.

But ya, it will be a very sensitive case how they will balance and pack Dancer with abilities that ultimately will determine what role they are intended to play, and what and how they end up being played if people find other uses and ways to use them for other roles in a party.

but ya hopefully they make Dancers really powerful, cool and useful otherwise they will have a harder time finding parties than even BSTs and THFs.

[Karinya]

There's lots of ways to make dancers powerful, cool and useful that don't involve giving them one of the job-defining traits of another job.

Regarding BBQ's list of suggestions: I think you're missing the point with (1). There ARE hard mobs already. Any of the old Uleguerand camps could send the current tp burning monkeys crying to their mommies in less time than it takes them to figure out how to spell "Condemnation".

But players avoid those camps because they are rewarded *more* for massacring the easy ones. Parties who fight like men (or mithra or whatever they happen to be) get half the exp/hr, or less.

And actually this is very relevant to dancer: what's the point in introducing an enfeebling-focused job (possibly even more so than RDM, which after all has some fairly decent enhancing and healing capabilities as well) to a game where enfeebling has lost its usefulness in exp because common exp targets are so weak? Dancers may be fine 1-60, but without radical readjustment of the high level game, they're likely to be in big trouble after that (at least, if they're designed along the lines players are expecting based on the dancers of games past and the information released so far).

[Malacite]

I vote making DEF/VIT useful....


Also, on topic: Stock up on CHR gear while it's cheap!

[jenova_9]

ya I think Dancer besides being the ultimate enfeebler, should also be a solid DD class as well. That would help its offensive capabilities and usefulness. yet I think most of the DD should come from the Dances/Dance abilities/Dance spells/whatever rather than from the weapon they are using, which would simply boost the damage they are causing to the mob. but chances are like THF, some Dance abilities may channel and boost the damage their weapon does. But I think it would be more unique if the Dances themselves do the real damage, and the weapon would add extra points to the total damage for that round.

the description did say Dance abilities rival that of the most powerful sorcerers (probably more directed towards BLMs) so I believe at least some of the abilities have really destructive properties, cause of course the priority is reducing the mob's HP to 0 while the defensive jobs keep everyone in good health.

[Eiyoko]

I vote making DEF/VIT useful....
Also, on topic: Stock up on CHR gear while it's cheap!

Dammit, quit jinxing it! DX

At any rate, we barely know what Dancer will be like. All we have for now are theories. For all we know it could end up being a main healer (not saying that's going to happen, just trying to point out that we don't know all that much yet).

[Malacite]

I'd say CHR gear is pretty safe bet...

[Rain_Blade]

*sigh* Us tarus might have a run for our money now. Dancer will trumph over a taru's panic dance.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Dammit, quit jinxing it! DX

At any rate, we barely know what Dancer will be like. All we have for now are theories.

SE has already laid out the description of the job, which makes it certainly sound like it falls somewhere between FFV and FFVI's version of dancer. Its magically inclined either way.

"Theories" would be that its "like a BRD." Knowledge of the series would tell you that Dancer is the exact opposite.

Now, how it translates out into the online world is another matter, but assuming its original functions are translated over into the online realm isn't unrealistic given how other jobs function online and how this jobs functioned previously.

It could go Ninja on us and take on a differing role, that's possible. In fact, I wouldn't deny the possibility since SE did state they wanted to continue the job design trends they started in ToA. PUP, COR and BLU are versatile roles, so I'm pretty sure this will be as well.

[jenova_9]

ya versatile roles would help! ^_^

but ya it would be cool if Dancer has some nuking abilities too! enfeebling and stuff is nice and all but parties search for healing, tank, then the rest (mostly DD ranked 3rd) in that order.

so in order to be versatile and compete for the party's invite, and since Dancer is likely opposite of BRD, it's gonna need some powerful and useful Damage Dealing capabilities (possibly in the form of nuking) to help contribute beyond the "making the mob feel sick" offensive abilities. XD

Cause I can tell right now Dancer won't be used for tanking (hope not, I already have a whole career length experience with tanking. lol. wanna support role next.)