Elemental Wheel

[Theyaden]

Looking for advise on the Elemental Whell tools gained at level 15.
I've noticed they are great for getting your skill up in ninjitsu, but haven't goten much else out of them so far.
Do any of them stack or does the weak to wind effect end as soon as another tool gives weak to ice for example?
Anyone have any observations on things that have helped them when running the wheel and how worthwhile is it?
Thanks in advance.
What is the normal duration that they last.
Are they useful hate control right away or only at later levels.

[Armando]

They lower resistance by 30, duration is 15 secs, never varies, always sticks (assuming the mob isn't totally immune to magic.) There are no messages in the chat log to tell you when it wears. Not sure if they stack, I'm guessing no. The damage and casting time on the sucks, use them to help your skillchains and MBs land unresisted.

[IfritnoItazura]

I'm reasonably sure the -ton Ninjutsu do not stack. Recommend you work with mages in party to see which ones they need and when. (e.g. Raiton at the start of fight to land Slow, then switch to Huton: Ichi when BLM gets up to reduce resist on Blizzard, etc.)

Damage from the Ichi series are laughable usually, but you can MB them on SC for OK-ish damage. INT gear will help with the damage, but don't expect miracles.

[Magoo]

The ichi versions of ninjitsu do very little damage and have a failrly long cast time, I don't suggest spending a lot of time and money spamming them.

If you don't have a black mage in the party, just use it before any skillchains (Huton before distortion and Hyoton before Liquification/Fusion) so the skillchain damage doesn't get resisted.

If you do have a black mage, Fire will be the strongest nuke they have when you first obtain the spells and one of their main damage spells for many levels to come. Just using Hyoton when it's up will help their damage out a lot. This has the added benefit of most low level xp mobs being weak to the ice damage you cause with it, and the tsurara used are relatively cheap and easy to craft yourself.

[Theyaden]

Thanks for the info above.
BTW do the tools create enough of a hate spike to be worthwhile or is it better to just be swinging during the casting time?
Are there any other items used to hold hate better.

[IfritnoItazura]

Thanks for the info above.
BTW do the tools create enough of a hate spike to be worthwhile or is it better to just be swinging during the casting time?
Those are not good for that...

Are there any other items used to hold have better.

Yep.

- A good weapon; I used sword until mid 20's.
- Kurayami: Ichi (Debatable...)
- Food: Rice Dumpling (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Rice_Dumpling) or Dorado Sushi (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Dorado_Sushi)
- Shuriken (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Shuriken), then Juji Shuriken
(http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Juji_Shuriken)
I particularly liked the combination of Dorado Sushi and Juji Shuriken. (Macroed in lot's of range accuracy gear for that.)

[Magoo]

Thanks for the info above.
BTW do the tools create enough of a hate spike to be worthwhile or is it better to just be swinging during the casting time?
Are there any other items used to hold have better.

The cast time of the ichi elemental spells is too long them to be useful for holding hate. Wheeling is really only helpful for that at 40+ once you get the Ni versions.

[Malacite]

The wheel is very expensive, and only really worthwhile at 51+.

The reason for this is at 51 you'll be able to equip the elemental staves and swap them out for each spell. At 60 you'll get Magic Attack Bonus II from BLM sub.

The Ichi line of spells suck too much, the only one worth using is Hyoton since Tsurara is so cheap to make (Distilled Water, Rock Salt, Ice Crystal)

The Ni wheel at lv 40 is when it starts to do decent damage, and at 75 if you can afford it the San Wheel will do disgusting damage per spell with enough MAB and INT (Friend of a friend can do 600-800 per spell it's absolutely disgusting)

[Omni]

The wheel is very expensive, and only really worthwhile at 51+.
The reason for this is at 51 you'll be able to equip the elemental staves and swap them out for each spell. At 60 you'll get Magic Attack Bonus II from BLM sub.
The Ichi line of spells suck too much, the only one worth using is Hyoton since Tsurara is so cheap to make (Distilled Water, Rock Salt, Ice Crystal)
The Ni wheel at lv 40 is when it starts to do decent damage, and at 75 if you can afford it the San Wheel will do disgusting damage per spell with enough MAB and INT (Friend of a friend can do 600-800 per spell it's absolutely disgusting)

actually, the wheel is good at 40 til ~55ish. it does worthwhile dmg even without staves or /blm. 80-90ish per spell unresisted. 115ish on a mb.

if you are going /blm, id suggest not tanking. the absence of /war and provoke makes it hard to take hate when you need to.

[Malacite]

HAH. Not really.

You ever see the numbers a NIN/BLM will put up? Believe me, when you're doing close to 1000 (possibly more) damage in only 6-8 seconds you'll be tanking regardless.

[Zempten]

wait, San spells can do 600-800 each? are you serious?

[Omni]

HAH. Not really.
You ever see the numbers a NIN/BLM will put up? Believe me, when you're doing close to 1000 (possibly more) damage in only 6-8 seconds you'll be tanking regardless.

woooosh...

[Malacite]

With /BLM, INT and MAB gear yeah you can do a scary amount of damage.

The Ni wheel will do around 180-200 at most per spell, but the San Wheel is easily 400+. Keep in mind you won't see these impressive numbers without /BLM (possibly /RDM, but you'll only have the 1 MAB trait)

40-50 no, but at 51+ yes.

[IfritnoItazura]

40-50 no, but at 51+ yes.
Our best DD at CoP 2.5 Mammet fights is NIN/RDM, on multiple runs.

That's Lv.40 cap. NIN40/RDM20 works very, very well.

[Omni]

what mobs is this nin/blm dropping 400+ dmg san elementals on? merit-grade/end game mobs?

[Malacite]

Imps I believe, I'll have to find out from my friend.

This guy is pimped out though. Moldavite + Locquatious Earring and Uggalepih Pendant >.> (Personally I'd rather have Novio earring over Loq but w/e)

[Zempten]

Still, I don't think those items would boost his DMG by 200pts. I'm interested regardless if it's merit or endgame.

What's the base DMG of an unresisted san spell anyways? [edit] nvm, said 200 somewhere

[Raydeus]

Need pics though, otherwise we can't start the Nerf NIN threads. :thumbsup:

[Murphie]

Need pics though, otherwise we can't start the Nerf NIN threads. :thumbsup:I'm still too busy trying to get my nerf Raydeus campaign going. NINs can wait.

[Raydeus]

:p

[Omni]

ive seen san ninjutsu in action and well, i doubt they reach the 600-800 dmg you claim they do. too weaks maybe or mobs that are magic weak. like raydeus said, need screen shots.

i dont play my nin anymore other than for soloing things or traveling some place quickly so i dont spend merits on nin otherwised id test it out myself.