Dancer new FFXI job? (attn Jei or any Japanese readers) [Archive] - Final Fantasy XI :: Dreams in Vana'diel

Omgwtfbbqkitten

09-19-2007, 07:48 PM

someone needs to ps that onto a galka or my model (bearded hume) >.>

I think the men will be getting that obnoxious latin v-neck shirt.

I personally never actually used dancers in any FF game, so I can't put my personal opinion in here...

They were hybrid buffer/debuffers, though they were more commonly debuffers that used "Charm" to confuse the enemy. In FFT they could also deal poison-like damage to enemy MP.

In FFVI, though, they job merged with Geomancer and Mog would learn elemental dances in specific environments kinda like Blue Mages learn abilities from enemies.

Up in the air which take on the job we're getting.

Legal Fish

09-19-2007, 07:51 PM

1/3, gogo Chemist and Geomancer.

Murphie

09-19-2007, 07:52 PM

Female characters dancing is gay now?Don't read more into the statement than there is. Imagine the outfit on an Elvaan male, or a Hume. Or (shudder) a Galka.

Unless of course the outfit is completely different for males. And the dance moves too.

Still, it's meant in fun, not in a derogatory way.

Armando

09-19-2007, 07:54 PM

I think the men will be getting that obnoxious latin v-neck shirt.Oh God, not again.

Murphie

09-19-2007, 07:56 PM

See, talking about it is just going to make it more likely.

Feba

09-19-2007, 07:57 PM

bbq, I know what a dancer IS, I'm just saying I'm not familiar enough with the way the job looks to say if I think that's it or not.

It could be a prostitute for all I know.

Murphie

09-19-2007, 07:59 PM

It could be a prostitute for all I know.I'm not sure I want to speculate what the 2-Hour for that would be.

Omgwtfbbqkitten

09-19-2007, 08:00 PM

Oh God, not again.

Well, there's not really many other games to draw from but FFV, FFT and FFX-2 as far as traditional Dancer stuff goes and FFX-2 one as DNC/BRD. In FFT, Dancer was a female-only class and FFX-2 was a female-only main cast.

Not much room left other than the FFV scheme.

And if they're staying true to FFV armors, PUPs are going to get to make fun of Time Mages.

http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/psx/fft/pictures/timemage.jpg

That's how they looked in FFT, which is pretty close to FFV's version.

Caspian

09-19-2007, 08:00 PM

You call your pimp and he kills the mob for you.

Murphie

09-19-2007, 08:01 PM

You call your pimp and he kills the mob for you.He's probably too busy refreshing someone for that.

IfritnoItazura

09-19-2007, 08:04 PM

"Details to be revealed on 9/22." I think.

Caspian

09-19-2007, 08:04 PM

Murphie

09-19-2007, 08:06 PM

Wtf are they going to do with a Dancer job? Is it really not covered by bard already?
Ofcourse, I still think TimeMage is just retarded, too. All "time" spells are already covered. They're gonna have to massively overhaul these jobs to make them different.I'm with you there. I haven't seen any need for new jobs, but people want them, so SE is (finally) doing what the players want. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Omgwtfbbqkitten

09-19-2007, 08:08 PM

Wtf are they going to do with a Dancer job? Is it really not covered by bard already?

Dancer is almost the complete opposite of a BRD.

Ofcourse, I still think TimeMage is just retarded, too. All "time" spells are already covered. They're gonna have to massively overhaul these jobs to make them different.

Actually, they haven't been all covered yet.

Reverse
Reflect
Comet
Horology

Just off the top of my head.

Kessy

09-19-2007, 08:13 PM

Hm I wonder if I'm the only male hume excited about being a dancer. Slap on a subligar and let the fun begin, I say ;D

WishMaster3K

09-19-2007, 08:15 PM

There needs to be a "No Thanks" Button just for Kessy's comment.

Feba

09-19-2007, 08:29 PM

"Details to be revealed on 9/22." I think.
Ah, that could be it. I took it as meaning "This is everything they're going to announce up to 9/22, our press got it early so we could print it in that issue", but my babelfish is weak, and it's not really important so I ignored it.

Caspian

09-19-2007, 08:43 PM

Dancer is almost the complete opposite of a BRD.
Besides the whole buffing/debuffing with music thing? I have little experience with dancer besides what I've read, please explain. I understand that there will be little difference, but enough to justify a whole other job?

Actually, they haven't been all covered yet.
Reverse
Reflect
Comet
Horology
Just off the top of my head.
So we're including any spells that currently aren't in the game?
Reverse I could see as a legit "time" spell. I could even see throwing in Demi (though holy crap, they'd have to nerf the crap out of it to keep it from being overpowered).
But reflect? Seems to be more of a whm spell than any other.
Comet? Blm's. Along with Ultima if they ever decided to add that one.
Horology, yeah, time based, but I don't have any experience using it.
Stop, yeah, not in and is time based.
So, we have:
Reverse
Stop
Horology
And I'm really struggling to come up with any other time based spells that other jobs don't already have ingame. Other than just giving another job Haste and Slow.
Even still, 5 spells justifies a whole new job? Goes back to the reason I don't see the need for a dancer. Seems like we're getting into job overload whilst a few jobs still aren't where they should be at to begin with.

Satori

09-19-2007, 08:46 PM

Oooooh I'm having thrills already ! lol
Or is it frills ?

I want a Ricky Martin shirt! :rofl:

Dymlos

09-19-2007, 08:51 PM

Dancer? Gawd don't we have enough buffer/debuffer jobs as it is? C'mon S-E announce Mystic Knight!

Omgwtfbbqkitten

09-19-2007, 08:52 PM

Besides the whole buffing/debuffing with music thing? I have little experience with dancer besides what I've read, please explain. I understand that there will be little difference, but enough to justify a whole other job?

I explained this on the last page but in there have been three versions of the Dancer Class so far

Dancer in FFV and FFTactics did AoE debuffs on the enemies, even going so far as to deal poison like damage to MP. They were also able to charm enemies into confusion, attacking other enemies, though this ability's effects were random and they might still attack you.

In FFVI, there was a Geomancer/Dancer Hybrid in the Mog character. You'd take him to specific elemental environments and he'd eventually learn a dance after being exposed to an element enough. Kinda like how BLUs learn magic from thier enemies, only this was based on environment. You'd choose an elemental dance and you'd get one of four different effects, some AoE Damage, some AoE Duffs or single target and sometimes it was an AoE buff for PT. Like a wind dance could deal wind damage or silence an enemy or do an Curaga on the party.

FFX-2 was a Bard/Dancer Hybrid. The BRD songs buffed the party, the Dances were AoE debuff.

Hyrist

09-19-2007, 09:01 PM

1/3, gogo Chemist and Geomancer.

I'm of the distinct feeling there's only 2 coming out this update. That or 4... in either case it will be an even number jobs this time around.

Personally I hope the second one is "Squire"

Dancer can fill in a LOT of mage support abilities with a dancer subjob if done right, especially a non-mp dependent means of supporting magic, almost like a battery charge: that can put on a delay timer.

It can also provide a melee support for mages which could just be that "Umph" some classes need to cross into the front line for specific situations, or better yet, endure the high-chain based EXP parties that send WHM, SMN and BLM LFG for hours on end.

A squire class could provide a rounded support with possibly better tanking alternatives, while being a possible tank/debuff/dd melee job itself. SE did state they're looking for jobs to be more rounded, as opposed to specified, this can turn out to be very good for jobs on the melee side looking for a bit more versatility.

Anyways, I'm with Legal Fish with the idea of Chemist and Geomancer as well, though the last parts of Geomancer could be taken away by Dancer, as it would fit into the "Mog" aspect of dancer used in FFVI, something that was really cool I might note.

Anyways, this just gets me more excited about the expansion.

Caspian

09-19-2007, 09:05 PM

I guess I read your post on the last page and then immediately forgot it.

The MP DoT sounds useful, as does what is basically the Confuse spell. Making it lean a little more DD side could change it some. The VI dancer is different, but is luck of the draw on the spell you cast really something you want in an mmo? "I meant to silence the slept mob, so he wouldn't cast when he woke up, not blast him with Aero".
The one from X-2 while different than the other two, is most like a bard. I'm not doubting SE could do something useful with the job. But I personally don't like the addition of three new jobs every expansion when adding a few spells and abilities would cover 90% of the changes, and the other 10 could be taken care of with updates.
Ofcourse, I'm really apprehensive about the whole idea of WotG, so take anything I think with a grain of salt.

LilithAngel

09-19-2007, 09:06 PM

some AoE Duffs.

Extrapolated for express purpose of taking it way out of context.

New Job: Duff Mage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Duff_Man.png) (With full AF)

Omgwtfbbqkitten

09-19-2007, 09:10 PM

Yeah, I somewhat have my doubts about Geomancer with Dancer in the mix, because it has lifted Geomancer abilities in the past. And personally, I found Mog more interesting than any other take on Geomancer or Dancer. If I were to take anything remaining from FFVI, I'd take Mog's job.

Caspian

09-19-2007, 09:10 PM

Extrapolated for express purpose of taking it way out of context.
New Job: Duff Mage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Duff_Man.png)
Gets the mob to drink until he throws up and passes out. Allowing you to kill him no problem.

Wise Donkey

09-19-2007, 11:35 PM

There needs to be a "No Thanks" Button just for Kessy's comment.

I gave it my thanks, just so I could remove my thanks.

Aushi

09-20-2007, 12:44 AM

I (hume male) also think this dancer thing sounds cool. i dance at parties so... :P

Omgwtfbbqkitten

09-20-2007, 01:17 AM

I find the averse reaction to this job kind of amusing, as if this was a left field pick. I'll admit I had said elsewhere this was my Dark Horse candidate and I thought it was the least likely of the jobs I predicted, but I do think is a logical job to add considering we can still use another support class or two.

And considering the war theme, wouldn't the rugged melee types of Vana'deil want to relax at a pub and see dancers and bards? Or have them travel in their company to keep their sprits high.

Of course, I've always found it amusing other men hold on to this notion that dancing is this thing men don't do. That's OK, I'll take your girl out on the dance floor for you. Funnier still is watching people do what they think is dancing and thing putting on some swing, shag or ballroom and watch the grinders freeze up because that's when they realize they really had no rhythm to start with.

If SE is really picking jobs to suit the theme of the war, then I'm fairly certain Chemist would be another job tapped. In fact, I'm willing to bet Geomancer won't happen in light of Dancer, because it has done geomancy before and could do it in FFXI.

SE did a good job of distinguishing COR from BRD, even though recently they scaled COR to actually exceed what BRD can do in buffs, that was just for the buffs they had in common, both jobs are remain quite notable for what they have exclusively. So Dancer would also need something to distinguish itself since being a debuffer would actually put it more in RDM's territory, and I think geomancy would be a good way to make it unique.

I just don't see the FFT Geomancer happening. And the bell-wielding Geomancer just wouldn't look right.

That's just my take, I could be wrong :P

Balfree

09-20-2007, 01:39 AM

I dance. What's the problem? Ok the outfit would be funny on a Galka... and even funnier on a Taru..

Saren

09-20-2007, 03:09 AM

I was praying we weren't going to get dancer not from a job point of view but from a person point of view.

Hordes of insecure players who feel under appreciated by whichever sex they are attracted to having access to a job that can wear belly dancing gear or the obnoxious Latin sateen shirts *cry* The macros are going to get old real fast.

I do think that this makes very unlikely that we are going to get Chemist though which is a shame because I think Chemist and Geomancer looked to be about the most interesting jobs proposed.

Assuming there are going to be 3 new jobs, I can't see SE making all of them support jobs. Also, as it's been said SE are making much more of an effort to go with what the players want and there is a lot more shouting for another knight/big armour based job and Geomancer than there is for Chemist.

Kirsteena

09-20-2007, 03:34 AM

I'm kind of concerned of the impact Dancer (and possibly Time Mage, if it is released) will have on Red Mage. I do not want to solely be a refresh whore, which is what we will turn into (even more so than normal).

WishMaster3K

09-20-2007, 04:22 AM

I already am a Refresh Whore. But RDM can do so much more. Case in point, I subbed NIN and kited during Divine Might. Maybe if Dancers made buffs and/or debuffs more potent, they'd be perfect complements for RDMs or even WHMs and/or BLMs at times.

Buffs get way too much precedence and debuffs don't get enough play. For example, BRDs have those songs that raise resistance, in fact, they have versions that RDMs and WHMs don't get, making them used in unison godly. I know that I can cast Barwater and Barpoison to take less damage on Poison Spray, but that would be further reduced by the BRD spell.

The only time you hear of BRDs doing that is when the tanks have a resistance setup for end-game mobs such as Tiamat.

If you don't like being pigeonholed, raise another job. I can't complain about my pt/alliance only inviting me as PLD because "they want me to tank" now can I? I knew what I was getting into when I job changed..

Sevv

09-20-2007, 04:29 AM

Feba

09-20-2007, 04:34 AM

Probably something like this for Hume Male

bonus points if you saw this and thought "Wait, is that my dad?"

Mhurron

09-20-2007, 04:55 AM

Jei

09-20-2007, 05:06 AM

Only says it's an image of a new job taken from the giant screen, details to be added later.

The rest is just the usual advertising, "FFXI is a large inspiring online world with 3 expansions and over 100,000 players" blah blah.

Karinya

09-20-2007, 05:18 AM

Don't read more into the statement than there is. Imagine the outfit on an Elvaan male, or a Hume. Or (shudder) a Galka.
Unless of course the outfit is completely different for males. And the dance moves too.
Still, it's meant in fun, not in a derogatory way.
Well, it was completely different in FFV, which was the only previous game to allow male dancers at all.

Who wants to see a 3-D version of Bartz's Saturday Night Fever outfit...

Hopefully you will be able to choose your dance, not have it chosen for you like FFV (who wants to play a job where they don't get to play it...). Some dance effects that have existed in past games:

FFV:
4x normal melee damage (yes, really. And you could combine it with an equip ability to do it with a weapon other than daggers. I don't remember if you got two 4x damage hits when dual wielding.)
Drain
Osmose/Aspir
Confuse

FFT:
Gradual HP damage
Gradual MP damage
Reduce speed of all enemies (effect builds over time and persists even if you stop dancing)
Reduce attack power of all enemies (effect builds over time and persists even if you stop dancing)
Reduce magic attack power of all enemies (effect builds over time and persists even if you stop dancing)
Cause random status ailments
Delay random enemies' turns

FFX-2 (Songstress was a dancer/bard combo, but this lists only the dance effects):
Blind all enemies
Silence all enemies
Slow all enemies
Sleep all enemies
Stop all enemies
Haste all allies
All allies spend 0 mp to cast spells
All allies become immune to magic
Double max HP of all allies
All allies gain 100% critical hit rate

I doubt all of those will be included, particularly some of the really powerful FFX-2 dances (where their power was mitigated by the fact that 1/3 of your party was tied up dancing them, and the effect only lasted as long as you were dancing it), but it gives some idea of where the class might be, ability-wise. FFX-2 affliction dances couldn't be resisted - any enemy not totally immune was guaranteed to be affected.

If dance effects only last while you're dancing and you can only do one dance at a time, then each effect should be as strong as two songs/rolls. They will probably be able to do some melee but not very well - maybe on par with a thief without SATA.

Still, I wonder how a debuff-oriented class would hold up in today's Chain #100 world. RDM have basically already lost their primary role because monsters are just too weak and fights too short to make debuffing worthwhile... except on HNMs, which are ultra-resistant or completely immune instead. Unless WotG provides powerful new incentive to fight more difficult enemies, I think most of the above list would be wasted.

P.S. The idea of dark knights subbing Dancer so they can Sword Dance with a greatsword strikes me as really funny, although SE will probably make it not work (if Sword Dance is allowed at all).

Ziero

09-20-2007, 05:30 AM

Puh-zing.
Wtf are they going to do with a Dancer job? Is it really not covered by bard already?
Ofcourse, I still think TimeMage is just retarded, too. All "time" spells are already covered. They're gonna have to massively overhaul these jobs to make them different.

Actually, most 'time' spells aren't covered by Rdm, only haste, slow, slow II, gravity and bind. And the only one of those spells that in any way shape or form would conflict with Time Mage getting the same spells(as whm has most of them already) is Slow II. And not because of the actual effects of the spell, but because of the way Rdm gets the spell. It wouldn't be fair for Time Mage to get it via scroll while Rdm still obtained it through merits. But that's something that could easily be changed.

And traditionaly, Dancer has always been the opposite of Brd, a DD/Debuffer. As is now, Brd gets no real DD spells or abilities and focuses mainly on boosting the party's strengths while having some effective debuffs. With dancer all they'd need to do is give it some melee efficiancy with some unique debuffs and DD dmg dances.

And I think the third new job will be Geomancer.

Kailea

09-20-2007, 05:35 AM

Hahahahaha (just woke up)

now how many said that Dancer might be added? and how many said "Dancer wont be added blah blah blah" ^.^

I restate my list from day one of the expansion being announced

Dancer
Geomacer
TimeMage

Feba

09-20-2007, 05:57 AM

I restate my list from day one of the expansion being announced
amazingly enough, that's the same list I saw for COP.

Sevv

09-20-2007, 06:05 AM

amazingly enough, that's the same list I saw for COP.

If they keep guessing they are bound to get lucky.

Feba

09-20-2007, 06:15 AM

thanks captain obvious.

Celeal

09-20-2007, 06:22 AM

What if Dancer can draw enough mob's attention and become a Tank class? Like dances that spike hate (mob's attention) and dances that evade mob's attacks...

Sevv

09-20-2007, 06:24 AM

thanks captain obvious.

Hey now, even tho it should be understood without saying. As of late we need Captain Obvious so that everyone understands.

What if Dancer can draw enough mob's attention and become a Tank class? Like dances that spike hate (mob's attention) and dances that evade mob's attacks...

So Ninja?

Balfree

09-20-2007, 06:35 AM

FFXI needs a "third" tank.

We've been asking for too long. They gonna give it to us, Dancer or not.

I wonder if a Geomancer could become a tank...

Feba

09-20-2007, 06:38 AM

FFXI needs a "third" tank.

we've got half a dozen tanks. It's just that NOBODY TANKS WITH THEM.

That's the problem with tanks, there's only so many roads you can go down before it's just "ok, they both tank the same way, which one is better at it?". And that's about two roads.

Mhurron

09-20-2007, 06:38 AM

FFXI needs a "third" tank.
Why?

Omgwtfbbqkitten

09-20-2007, 06:48 AM

FFXI needs a "third" tank.

There are three tank jobs in FFXI.

Sevv

09-20-2007, 06:56 AM

You can tank with 4 very well:

Nin
Pld
War
Blu

eticket109

09-20-2007, 06:59 AM

It's funny how people keep saying the last thing we need is another support class and yet I can't find a single brd, rdm or cor to fill out my party.

Someone in my LS last night was going nuts about the fact they were adding the job and how stupid it sounded. I suggested he simply choose to not play it.

Mhurron

09-20-2007, 07:19 AM

Simply adding another job that does X does not mean there will be more of X around. Most people who don't want to play support, tank or heal will not play jobs that are support, tanks or healers no matter how many different types you add.

Case in point - It was hard to find support jobs pre-ToAU. They add a support job class, so there are now 3. Result = It is hard to find support jobs post-ToAU.

eticket109

09-20-2007, 07:22 AM

Simply adding another job that does X does not mean there will be more of X around. Most people who don't want to play support, tank or heal will not play jobs that are support, tanks or healers no matter how many different types you add.
Case in point - It was hard to find support jobs pre-ToAU. They add a support job class, so there are now 3. Result = It is hard to find support jobs post-ToAU.

touche. however it's one more search I can get my hopes up for.

Balfree

09-20-2007, 08:01 AM

Did anyone of you ladies get the quotes around the word third?

I know there's more tanking options. Do you see them actually tanking on a regular basis, like nins and plds? The ocasional war who either tanks or doesnt get invited doesnt count.

Feba

09-20-2007, 08:03 AM

Omgwtfbbqkitten

09-20-2007, 08:14 AM

http://www.geocities.com/finalfantasyfive/movepic/sworddance3.gif
I am in your Dragon's Aery, tangoing with your Fafnir.

Ziero

09-20-2007, 08:30 AM

Did you ever think that JUST BECAUSE A JOB IS MEANT FOR ONE THING DOESN'T MEAN THE PLAYERS ACTUALLY USE IT FOR THAT?
SE could give us SuperAwesomeMegaCoolSweet tanks, and players would turn PLD into a backup cure job. The likelihood of SE ever managing to make more than two tanks is VERY SLIM because there's only so many ways tanking can work.

Adding another viable option to fill a role won't completely replace the previously existing classes that fill that roll.

SE could *easily* add another tanking job by creating a job that excels at tanking, similar to pld, while not being able to excel at other rolls. Wars DD more then tank because they're better DDs, Blus DD more then tank for the same reason. Every other job that 'can' tank in this game, besides Pld and Nin, can do something else *better*.

So all SE has to do is create another job that can mitigate dmg while holding hate.

Balfree

09-20-2007, 08:30 AM

Olorin401

09-20-2007, 08:43 AM

There needs to be a "No Thanks" Button just for Kessy's comment.
You haven't met my linkshell's resident "Party Boy".

I swear to Altana this guy wore a Vir Subligar to the ENM Mammets fight. As a SAM.

Omgwtfbbqkitten

09-20-2007, 08:44 AM

Then I guess something isnt very quite alright with FFXI.

But I guess not even the developers of the game can fix it! It's all in our hands.

Why dont people tank with said jobs? There must be something... some reason.

Yeah, Utsusemi fucked blood tanking permanently, that's what. People are too spoiled on tanks that are more self-sufficient that if you are a WAR that wants to tank, you get chewed out for wanting to do so by the piss-pantsy healer in your PT.

Feba

09-20-2007, 08:47 AM

Olorin401

09-20-2007, 08:52 AM

You can tank with 4 very well:
Nin
Pld
War
Blu
I'd add PUP and SAM to this list, just 'cuz I've seen both jobs tank and tank WELL.

And I thought they were adding a new tank job in WoTG - Chocobo Knight..

Omgwtfbbqkitten

09-20-2007, 08:54 AM

It has NOTHING to do with the job being able to do other roles-- look at PUP when it was crappy. People didn't use it because everything else was better at what it did.

That is quite easily the most annoying aspect of FFXI. So longer as there's a class that does something "better," even if its only marginally better, its the "best" way to do things.

If you were told you had a 75% chance of rain today in real life, you'd take an umbrella or raincoat out with you for the day. If you're told you have a 75% chance of rain in FFXI, you wouldn't take the umbrella until the chance capped at 95%. That's how fucking stupid people get in this game.

Balfree

09-20-2007, 08:55 AM

And to dare think for yourself, out of the box if you want to, don't you even try!

I think many problems could be solved if there were more options to manage hate. Right now only THF has the ability to play around directly with hate, not counting the regular provoke. Both TA and Provoke are the only skills i can think of that have a direct influence on hate. Who knows what a Dancer or other can bring to the table on that department.

Crazy ideas for geomancer... there's infinite ideas to be put to motion if you deviate from what you believe is normal. SE gave us pup, we werent expecting such a weird job, anyone who dared say Puppets should be implemented would be shot upon sight.

Malacite

09-20-2007, 09:05 AM

I'm of the opinion that even a DRK should be able to tank fairly well, given that they can wear some pretty heavy armor.

The problem lies mostly in the DEF/VIT calculations and not so much Utsusemi. Yeah, it's a broken ability, but if PLD's were taking single-digit damage by end game do you think anyone would care?

Feba

09-20-2007, 09:15 AM

BBQ and balfree, I think you're assuming that my statement of how things are is an endorsement of that.

SE kinda shot itself in the foot with shoving parties down people's throats. Look at games where you don't need a party for anything, people have a lot more freedom with their characters to do what they want, and be effective or suck however they like. In FFXI, you never even get the chance.

Ziero

09-20-2007, 09:18 AM

Because the job that tanks in the way they do (for most potential tanks, PLD, for THF NIN) is BETTER AT THAT METHOD OF TANKING.
It has NOTHING to do with the job being able to do other roles-- look at PUP when it was crappy. People didn't use it because everything else was better at what it did.

Last I saw, Plds still tanked and tanked pretty damn awesomely. Meanwhile, when pts in their 60s ask *me* to tank I get the crap kicked out of me. War tanks are MP spounges until 74 when they get utsu-ni because the only way they can prevent Dmg is to up their Def. But doing that lowers their offensive abilities so they can't hold hate as well. Hell, most of my PTs have War tanks because Nins and Plds are so rare. But against an IT mob, having a dedicated tank who can mitigate dmg on their own is nice because it helps cut downtime to a minimum.

At endgame tanking becomes all but useless in EXP and your choices are even more limited for non-exp situations. As such, only very specific and more or less, pimped out non-nins-or-plds can tank as effectively as those two jobs because no other job could be as good as them.

And people didn't like Pup because it couldn't do anything better then other jobs, they didn't like it because it couldn't do anything *well* period. It was a weak DD, weak support and weak tank. Over time it's been boosted, but I can't say how effective it is now cause I haven't pted with one as of late.

That is quite easily the most annoying aspect of FFXI. So longer as there's a class that does something "better," even if its only marginally better, its the "best" way to do things.
And that's how it always has been and always will be. People will stat crunch and number punch till they find the 'best' way to do things in a game. Even if the difference is only 1 point. But that doesn't mean the majority of the community follows those beliefs. Because if it did we wouldn't see so many Drgs, Thfs, Whms, Smns, Pups, Drks etc etc. Just because a few people feel the need to find and be the best, doesn't mean you have to follow those ideas. And the simple fact that you lvled Cor to 75, despite it not being considered a 'best class' shows it can be done.

People still lvl Pld despite nin being 'better', and they'd certainly lvl any other new tank/support/DD job despite other classes being better.

Feba

09-20-2007, 09:24 AM

Last I saw, Plds still tanked and tanked pretty damn awesomely.
wooooooooooooooooooooooosh

Balfree

09-20-2007, 09:26 AM

I agree with you from the begining, but perhaps i shouldve explained my first post.

I believe it is in SE's power to make the tank scene much better. That is all. Trough a new job if need be. Be that job a tank itself or a job that can drastically change some things to affect other jobs.

What if you suddendly could tank efficietly as a RDM in EXP situation thanks to a Geomancer's defense buff? Or what if a Dancer could buff you into getting more hate for your actions? I can see a SAM doing just fine here, or a MNK, depending on their subjob and your party formation. And what if suddenly Dancer gets a skill that just draws or sheds hate?

Imagine this:

MNK WAR DRG DAN RDM WHM

Mages in the back as usual. Melee next to the mob. Dancer sheds hate from the mages, therefore the melees are getting all the hate for themselves. WHM and RDM can Cure all they want because theyre not getting that much hate, and if they do get hate spikes, there's allways someone who can provoke, and if by some heavenly chance DAN also gets an ability for others to gain more hate on their actions, i can see the tides changing in ways no one expects.

Personally i think this is just crazy enough to be viable.

WishMaster3K

09-20-2007, 10:19 AM

Holy Shit, Balfree, that actually made sense.

eticket109

09-20-2007, 10:20 AM

Holy Shit, Balfree, that actually made sense.

Which is why it would probably never happen. :/

Ziero

09-20-2007, 10:21 AM

I agree with you from the begining, but perhaps i shouldve explained my first post.
I believe it is in SE's power to make the tank scene much better. That is all. Trough a new job if need be. Be that job a tank itself or a job that can drastically change some things to affect other jobs.
What if you suddendly could tank efficietly as a RDM in EXP situation thanks to a Geomancer's defense buff? Or what if a Dancer could buff you into getting more hate for your actions? I can see a SAM doing just fine here, or a MNK, depending on their subjob and your party formation. And what if suddenly Dancer gets a skill that just draws or sheds hate?
Imagine this:
MNK WAR DRG DAN RDM WHM
Mages in the back as usual. Melee next to the mob. Dancer sheds hate from the mages, therefore the melees are getting all the hate for themselves. WHM and RDM can Cure all they want because theyre not getting that much hate, and if they do get hate spikes, there's allways someone who can provoke, and if by some heavenly chance DAN also gets an ability for others to gain more hate on their actions, i can see the tides changing in ways no one expects.
Personally i think this is just crazy enough to be viable.
Brd has Hate affecting songs already, gets them through merits iirc.

Balfree

09-20-2007, 10:58 AM

Sure, but is it as crazy as what i said? Nooooooooooooo.

Celeal

09-20-2007, 11:42 AM

LOL, let the Dancer "Cha Cha" with the mob to get all the attentions and hold hate XD

I hope the new jobs offers some subjob options for existing jobs as well. The ones from ToAU does not do well with /BLU, /COR or /PUP. Just imagine with Dancer has "Provoke-like" hate tool and open up the option for main-job/Dancer for tanking.

WishMaster3K

09-20-2007, 11:47 AM

or just Dances that Do Different Things.

Like a Enmity + Dance, or something. I was going to write more, but then I realized that COR has a bunch of these as skills already. Except COR is job dependent (sorta?).

Balfree

09-20-2007, 12:03 PM

Confuse can i have it? ... :D

Nothing like a mob running away like crazy and hitting itself silly.

Sevv

09-20-2007, 12:06 PM

Confuse can i have it? ... :D
Nothing like a mob running away like crazy and hitting itself silly.

No do not add confuse to this game please dear god. Why you ask? Imagine a bcnm vs a dancer type who can confuse party members... think of the noobs.

Mhurron

09-20-2007, 12:16 PM

Uh, no, I couldn't sleep that mob, it confused me ...
...
...
...

Balfree

09-20-2007, 12:24 PM

I have to stop being sarcastic.

Forums are no fun! Cant use my sarcastic accent as well.

Hmph!

Sevv

09-20-2007, 12:34 PM

I have to stop being sarcastic.
Forums are no fun! Cant use my sarcastic accent as well.
Hmph!

Oh no it just has been brought up seriously so many times I see confuse should be added that I just scream No.

IfritnoItazura

09-20-2007, 01:07 PM

Right now only THF has the ability to play around directly with hate, not counting the regular provoke.
Add Lv.60+, any melee with /THF to that list.

Both TA and Provoke are the only skills i can think of that have a direct influence on hate.
There are probably more JAs which affect enmity significantly, but these came to mind:
- Sentinel
- Rampart
- Warcry
- Last Resort
- Sharpshot
- Boost
- Shield Bash
- Weapon Bash
- Hide

If counting spells (not big damage or curing ones):
- Flash
- Stun
- Blind / Kurayami
- Sleep / Lullaby
- Bind
- Jettatura?
- Actinic Burst?
...
- Sandspin >_>;

Sevv

09-20-2007, 01:13 PM

Hate and how it works. (http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21468&hilit=hate)

The basics

IfritnoItazura

09-20-2007, 02:31 PM

OK, but S-E doesn't use the word "hate"; it's "enmity", instead.

I'm a bit biased, but I like this page better (it refers to the thread you listed, anyway): Enmity (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Enmity)

Balfree

09-20-2007, 03:10 PM

Add Lv.60+, any melee with /THF to that list.
And...? Im talking about skills, not job combinations. We have new jobs coming, and they probably come bundled with a whole bunch of new skills.

There are probably more JAs which affect enmity significantly, but these came to mind:
- Sentinel
- Rampart
- Warcry
- Last Resort
- Sharpshot
- Boost
- Shield Bash
- Weapon Bash
- Hide

If counting spells (not big damage or curing ones):
- Flash
- Stun
- Blind / Kurayami
- Sleep / Lullaby
- Bind
- Jettatura?
- Actinic Burst?
...
- Sandspin >_>;

Aye, I'm not a complete twit. I know _things_ cause "hate". But how many of these are used solely for hate gain? Well TA adds to damage i believe but it is a tactical skill to induce hate on someone else and that makes it rather unique. Provoke simply gives you hate. These are the main "just for hate" tools. Everything else while counting towards hate gain, but probably not used just for that purpose, I bet you anything if TA didnt give hate to the person standing in front of you, THFs wouldnt bother standing behind anyone, right? That and Provoke is what I call hate tools.

Well DOH, paladins use their skills, it helps them get hate. Let's count every action you do then! Attacking gives you hate, maybe if you attack enough you can tank properly, provided no one else does. Hell even sitting next to some mobs gives you hate. New job: The Sitter. Tanks while sitting.

If the PLD skills were enough, they wouldnt sub WAR for voke.

... excuse my little outburst but pointing to me the fact that every skill provides hate gain was probably a bit too insinuating that I have no idea what the battle basics are in FFXI.

Taskmage

09-20-2007, 03:24 PM

Hate and how it works. (http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21468&hilit=hate)
The basicsOn that note, a post from a blog I like regarding enmity: http://kanican.livejournal.com/12192.html

IfritnoItazura

09-20-2007, 03:45 PM

I didn't mean to insult you, but I just find the statement "Right now only THF has the ability to play around directly with hate, not counting the regular provoke" a bit over simplified. I supposed it's a just a different point of view, but everything I listed does "directly" alter enmity, and not from doing damage or healing HP.

If you had wrote "These are the main "just for hate" tools" earlier, my response would've been worded differently.

Still, NIN/DRK uses Stun for enmity, and I've tanked on DRK/WAR using Weapon Bash, Last Resort, and Bind as enmity tools. In different situations, those thing are used "just for" enmity.

Again, it's a mater of interpretation, and I apologize if you read my response as an insult.

Well DOH, paladins use their skills, it helps them get hate.
Right. In my eyes, this contradicts "only THF has the ability to play around directly with hate, not counting the regular provoke" a bit. During exp, often the defensive job ability are used more for enmity than damage mitigation. One can say the effects other than enmity becomes secondary.

Of course, if you meant "purely" instead of "directly", then I'd agree with you, but I cannot read minds, so can only interpret your meaning by your words. ^_^;

If the PLD skills were enough, they wouldnt sub WAR for voke.
At endgame, I'm told PLD/NIN can tank. Initial TA(s), then build enmity from melee strikes, Flash, and JAs seem to be the standard operation.

Dymlos

09-20-2007, 03:51 PM

Now I wonder what the shorthand for Dancer is. I'm guessing it's one of these:
DNC
DCR
DAN (doubt it since it's a damn name.)

Taskmage

09-20-2007, 03:56 PM

Plds and nins sub war for provoke because it's the most reliable, predictable way for a melee job to get hate quickly. Given enough time, pld, nin and rdm can generate a very substantial amount of hate through their own skills and those of alternate subjobs, but not on the quick rhythm of an experience party where your enmity resets to zero every few minutes.

Anyway, it seems to me what we have here is a simple misunderstanding. There basic rules that say your actions make your enmity go up and time and damage to you make it go down. Basically any skill in the game can be said to interact with enmity in one of those two ways. Sentinel and the meritable bard songs basically change the coefficients in those equations. Thief is the only job that has skills that manipulate enmity outside of those basic mechanics, TA and hide.

DeebsTundra

09-20-2007, 04:04 PM

Look, when it comes right down to it, you hijacked a thread about Dancer and turned it into a tank discussion. ...but since it's been hijacked might as well throw my 2 cents in.

I haven't posted on this board in a long time. ...and the last 4 pages of this thread have been about tanks.
You people say warrior makes a great tank. ...and I agree to an extent. Up until level 30 I could tank war/nin, war/mnk or war/thf without a problem. The instant I moved from mandies in Yhoater Jungle to beetles in Eastern Altepa, all of a sudden... NOTHING I did would hold hate. A samurai would WS for 150-200 and the hate would be gone. Black mage would hit a Water II Magic Burst on Distortion for 280. Provoke would do NOTHING. Warrior until 74 in my opinion simply does not have the job abilities or tricks to hold hate. Ninja is no tank until 37. Low hp, Low VIT. Sure they have great evasion, and if you time it right and get lucky you can sneak Utsusemi: Ichi in there for some shadows. But 9 times out of 10, I'd get hit hard, and get interrupted. If say at level 50, you cannot find a paladin or a ninja, your only real safe option is multiple jobs with provoke and just hope hate bounces around nicely between those jobs. If you do have a "unusual" job tanking, you need to have real high quality healers backing you up. At dragoon level 73, we had a pull when the tank was afk. ...they tried to sleep it and wait for him to get back, but seeing as it was a Jnun, it started to resist sleep. (Caedarva Mire) The bard was half dead, so was the white mage. I was /war and just started to tank it. Sure, I hold hate great as a dragoon, especially geared the way I am for damage. I hold hate purely out of damage alone. ...but the healers have to spam high level cures to keep me from dying after 450 damage critical hits.

Anybody who claims all these different jobs can tank effectively and efficiently need to take a second look. Paladin efficiently holds hate and takes moderate to low damage. Ninja if played correctly (Talking to you people who use all your spells) efficiently holds hate and takes low to no damage. Warrior deals good damage, can't hold hate that well, and usually takes alot of damage pre-74. Samurai has a single shadow, holds hate...fairly...well thru damage but needs competent healers.

The idea of a tanking job was meant to be someone who requires little to no assistance to keep the focus of an enemy off the rest of the party while taking as little damage as possible. There are 2 jobs now that are the most efficient and effective at that job. That is Paladin and Ninja (post 37.) Don't let this turn into a job versus job argument either. Paladin is a great tank, but face it, isn't up to the task of dishing out the damage to take the mob down. My 1200+ Penta Thrusts take care of that. Of course if I pull that off, without a superjump ready... I'm pretty much dead because I take so much damage.

I'm sorry for the rant, but these tank arguments get under my skin.

Taskmage

09-20-2007, 04:10 PM

Nin is a perfectly good tank prior to 37 if you understand how to time ichi casts so as not to get interrupted. I can say that with some authority now because I've actually done it. 1-37 solo tanking except for two parties with a friend in Garliage. It's not an easy thing to learn, but it is flatly untrue that nin can't tank before Ni.

DeebsTundra

09-20-2007, 04:19 PM

You misquoted me. I never stated ninja can not and should not tank before 37. Because it can be done. But it requires skill. ...the reason people don't ask samurai, warrior, blue mage etc to tank, is because there are other jobs that are more specialized in it. In the party environment of ffxi, efficiency = more exp/hour = happy party members. Who wants a party with a terrible paladin who can't seem to hold hate and takes alot of damage when you can get a samurai who is geared right and can do it. There are always exceptions to the rules, but for the most part, ffxi is built around repetition. People have figured out what job does what part of the party to their liking, and they stick with it. Unfortunately there are never enough paladins and ninjas to go around.

IfritnoItazura

09-20-2007, 04:26 PM

NIN is not a great solo tank before Lv.37 without a THF in party, and not before Lv.30, period. Put a DRG + SAM + BLM in party and watch Distortion blow apart monsters and any hope of keeping control as a tank. From my experience tanking on multiple jobs, BLU, DRG, WAR, and PLD are all better tank (due to superior mob control) than NIN at those levels.

Even my DRK/WAR can regain control faster after SA+Fast Blade from THFs than my NIN did.

NIN pre-37 still wins on damage mitigation, but watching a mandy running to the back line to hit the BLM and sleep all the mages made me cringe. x_x;

Taskmage

09-20-2007, 04:27 PM

Well then I would say it's untrue that "Ninja is no tank until 37." It's very possible, it's just the threshold of skill required to make it work is lower than for say paladin. The rest of your post I don't necessarily disagree with. It's just that particular assertion that peeves me. People blame the job because most if its players are bad at it.

-----

NIN is not a great solo tank before Lv.37 without a THF in party, and not before Lv.30, period. Put a DRG + SAM + BLM in party and watch Distortion blow apart monsters and any hope of keeping control as a tank. That may require shuriken. Since I used them I can't say whether it's possible to do without. But the level 18 shuriken are pretty affordable from and NPC and are simply a godsend for damage and hate. I never had a mob turn from me for long. Of course, I'll admit it's entirely possible that all the DDs I partied with simply sucked.

Anyway, this is a massive derail and I apologize for contributing to it. I'll stop now.

Omgwtfbbqkitten

09-20-2007, 04:32 PM

Warrior deals good damage, can't hold hate that well, and usually takes alot of damage pre-74.

I'm gonna wait to see more data and results from the two-hander update before I lean on old data that may no longer be relevant to how the job tanks.

Most WARs neglect the #1 subjob that helps them continue to generate enmity - Monk. But WAR is also getting hate from dealing damage, something that isn't exactly a strong point for NIN and PLD.

Its my hope that the new generation of WARs takes and keeps GA killed and tries to use the proper tanking sub for WAR at higher levels before they start playing the "we can't tank" card again. But WARs are collectively too chickenshit to stop using /NIN.

I'm personally sick of hearing what jobs "can't" do when I've done them numerous times. CORs can't pull, oh right, explain the high chain I just pulled for with no AoE sleep to back myself. I don't like to pull, but I'll call bullshit on anyone that says I can't do it.

Malacite

09-20-2007, 04:52 PM

DDR :rofl:

Murphie

09-20-2007, 04:55 PM

Between this and the "official" Wings of the Goddess thread, I've completely lost track of the conversation. :(

IfritnoItazura

09-20-2007, 05:14 PM

That may require shuriken. Since I used them I can't say whether it's possible to do without. But the level 18 shuriken are pretty affordable from and NPC and are simply a godsend for damage and hate. I never had a mob turn from me for long. Of course, I'll admit it's entirely possible that all the DDs I partied with simply sucked.
T_T
I was using shuriken, with R.Acc gears macroed in, using mostly Rice Dumpling or Dorado Sushi, depending on accuracy I was getting. Good enough for newbie DDs, but not against people who know how to set up their characters.

Anyway, this is a massive derail and I apologize for contributing to it. I'll stop now.
Aww. It's a fun and reasonably intelligent derail. =/ Thanks for the heads up on the enmity info.

The dancer outfit doesn't impress me, but I haven't seen it on a Mithra, yet. S-E has been good to the cats when it comes to wardrobe, so I'm sure it'll look nice on my character. :biggrin:

Skoal

09-20-2007, 05:29 PM

Between this, the "official" Wings of the Goddess thread, and all the fergie threads I've completely lost track of the conversation. :(

heh

Ziero

09-20-2007, 05:32 PM

*snip*

As someone who has mnk lvled to 37 for subbing to war, and *has* tried to 'tank' (aka, had a crappy nin as a tank so I couldn't go full DD) post update on ToAU mobs (some of the weakest EXP mobs in game) I can still say it hurts like hell. Wearing mostly def gear, I was still taking 200+ dmg crits from low IT crawlers with 100+ normal swings. I was an MP spounge and even when I tried, couldn't hold hate for long against the other (mp spounge) DDs. Died three times in that pt, so did the mnk, the Nin only died once (and used Mijin to boot) and the Drk was smart enough to turn around when he got hate. Though to be fair, I subbed /sam and not /mnk, but even /mnk wouldn't help me for long.

The dancer outfit doesn't impress me, but I haven't seen it on a Mithra, yet. S-E has been good to the cats when it comes to wardrobe, so I'm sure it'll look nice on my character. :biggrin:

It actually bugs me too. She has pants, actually, fully concealing pants. Pld AF doesn't have real pants, War Af shows more leg AND midrift then Dancer AF and thf AF shows *way* more cleavage. Now I'm not askin for a corsette and a thong or nothing, but they could have at least given them tights D=

Malacite

09-20-2007, 05:56 PM

What's weird is they took the male outfit from FFV and tweaked it for the ladies...

So what do the guys get?

Omgwtfbbqkitten

09-20-2007, 06:00 PM

As someone who has mnk lvled to 37 for subbing to war, and *has* tried to 'tank' (aka, had a crappy nin as a tank so I couldn't go full DD) post update on ToAU mobs (some of the weakest EXP mobs in game) I can still say it hurts like hell. Wearing mostly def gear, I was still taking 200+ dmg crits from low IT crawlers with 100+ normal swings. I was an MP spounge and even when I tried, couldn't hold hate for long against the other (mp spounge) DDs. Died three times in that pt, so did the mnk, the Nin only died once (and used Mijin to boot) and the Drk was smart enough to turn around when he got hate. Though to be fair, I subbed /sam and not /mnk, but even /mnk wouldn't help me for long.

Again, I'm waiting for more data and further experimentation. I won't hold a poor merit PT with a short-notice tank WAR to be an example of a PT built to let WAR tank. Even with PLD or NIN, you have to invite jobs that supplement their styles of tanking or it won't work. The fact is, no one invites WAR to tank nor do they invite jobs or adapt themselves to WAR's needs for tanking.

Instead inviting a BRD for Minne songs and WARs gearing to tank, we have Haste-whipped WARs that yelp the moment they get hit and WHMs that conjure up 'tard jargon like "MP sponge" which just reinforces the myth that WAR can't tank.

What WHM means is "Dammit, I have to cast cure now."

Well, no shit, that's what WHMs do and why you're invited. Don't like it? Sign up to be something else.

WishMaster3K

09-20-2007, 06:15 PM

My favorite quote is from one of my friends who doesn't like meriting on NIN because "people expect him to tank."

And he doesn't like meriting on BRD because "people expect him to pull."

I mean, really. The demands of this community are outrageous. The nerve of some people.

So he MNK/NINs everything.

Susurrus

09-20-2007, 06:20 PM

Again, I'm waiting for more data and further experimentation. I won't hold a poor merit PT with a short-notice tank WAR to be an example of a PT built to let WAR tank. Even with PLD or NIN, you have to invite jobs that supplement their styles of tanking or it won't work. The fact is, no one invites WAR to tank nor do they invite jobs or adapt themselves to WAR's needs for tanking.
Instead inviting a BRD for Minne songs and WARs gearing to tank, we have Haste-whipped WARs that yelp the moment they get hit and WHMs that conjure up 'tard jargon like "MP sponge" which just reinforces the myth that WAR can't tank.
What WHM means is "Dammit, I have to cast cure now."
Well, no shit, that's what WHMs do and why you're invited. Don't like it? Sign up to be something else.
There's a difference between "Dammit, I have to cast cure now." and "MP sponge."
On both RDM and WHM, I'll call "MP Sponge" when I'm out of MP casting constant Cure IV/V, not because I'm being wasteful, but because I'm keeping people alive. For example, on RDM I've used Convert and still ran out of MP in some parties, and the timer on Convert is still at 7-8 minutes!

Omgwtfbbqkitten

09-20-2007, 06:29 PM

And he doesn't like meriting on BRD because "people expect him to pull."

I adapted to the trend of pulling while it was still something rather unconventional for a BRD to do. Its somewhat understandable that a pre-ToA BRD may not want to pull, or even a pre-CoP once since CoP was when Arrowburn was in its prime and they wanted BRDs to pull or at least stage mobs while roaming.

Not all BRDs did it and, honestly, I think /NIN is a weak sub for BRD and refuse to level it to placate current trends when RDM and COR can also pull as good as a BRD can (well, maybe not RDM as much, but they're not too bad off). But then, my BRD is pretty much dead and I'll probably never play it again after Sea access.

As far as Dancer AF goes, mithra is always going to look cute in their AFs, Like Tarutaru, they can't not look adorable in whatever you put them in (with two exceptions, which I'll mention later). I find it rather annoying that when I don my RNG AF that I feel like my mithra should be selling Girl Scout cookies, hell, i start craving some Thin Mint cookies every time I gear up for a 60 cap BCNM.

Whether I'm in /RNG or /WHM mode on COR these days, I find my best choices in pants to be quite distracting. I swear I think SE put good stats my my leg armor choices just because mithra have a nice rear.

My best MP option for legs is RSE (i.e. red panties) and if I toss in my crimson greaves with that, I've actually heightened the look on top of functionality. I could wear RSE2 feet, but I get AGI for QD from the greaves.

I have dusk trousers and like hell they're trousers on the female characters, these are almost booty pants and SE knows it. Pervs.

The only way I can make my mithra look stupid is Walhra Turban + Blue Coteharde. And while functional for MP, I can't stand the look of it.

On both RDM and WHM, I'll call "MP Sponge" when I'm out of MP casting constant Cure IV/V, not because I'm being wasteful, but because I'm keeping people alive. For example, on RDM I've used Convert and still ran out of MP in some parties, and the timer on Convert is still at 7-8 minutes!

Sorry, but if you need to constantly cast the highest tier Cures you have, something is wrong with you or the PT. I don't subscribe to the notion I need to be constantly topped off at max HP when I'm melee and using the highest tier cures you have is the best way to waste a lot of MP.

When I'm a healer, I'm there to keep you alive, not healthy. Healthy is your problem. :P

Raydeus

09-20-2007, 06:36 PM

What's weird is they took the male outfit from FFV and tweaked it for the ladies...

So what do the guys get?

23122

Omgwtfbbqkitten

09-20-2007, 06:46 PM

I still think we're getting this:

http://limitbreakradio.com/forum/images/avatars/72130433746f303134e4b1.gif

WishMaster3K

09-20-2007, 06:47 PM

Ray, I thanked you, just so I could remove it.

Susurrus

09-20-2007, 06:48 PM

Sorry, but if you need to constantly cast the highest tier Cures you have, something is wrong with you or the PT. I don't subscribe to the notion I need to be constantly topped off at max HP when I'm melee and using the highest tier cures you have is the best way to waste a lot of MP.
When I'm a healer, I'm there to keep you alive, not healthy. Healthy is your problem. :P

Which is what I was referring to. Was just stating, mage screaming "MP Sponge!" =/= "I don't wanna cast a cure spell."

Raydeus

09-20-2007, 07:06 PM

Ray, I thanked you, just so I could remove it.

:thumbsup:

Omgwtfbbqkitten

09-20-2007, 07:52 PM

Cut and paste of a cut and paste from Alla, seems Elmer the Pointy did a translation:

The movie was a series of little clips strung together. New information was a little sparse, but these scenes give you a lot to think about. Too bad they wouldn’t let us photograph or record the movie ourselves. Still, we’ll give you what information we can.

The stage is set during the Great Crystal War. The way the refer to it has changed

(Instead of クリスタル戦争 kurisutaru sensou with phonetic katakana, they are going with kanji 水晶大戦) suishou taisen)

but it is still about the war between the humans and the Shadow Lord’s Army. In Wings of the Goddess, adventurers will cross through time and become involved in the Great Crystal War. The players will discover some shocking truths as well. “The Advent of the Soldiers of God” is another keyword we saw, which may refer to the adventurers themselves, or perhaps to something else, I’m not sure.

As for new jobs, we were told in an interview in July that there would be 2 or more added. Watching the movie, I was suddenly greeted with the figure of a woman in a beautiful outfit of a “Dancer.” This is probably the first new job. A “Dancer” first appeared in Final Fantasy V, where they could absorb an enemy’s HP and MP. They could also unleash consecutive attacks with abilities such as “Sword Dance,” using the “Dance” command. In FFXI, it has the potential to become a good support job.

http://common.allakhazam.com/images/7/a/7ac2905670ba3f15734d096e1fd47677.png

Story-wise, I had to take what I could from the clips on the screen, but it seems to really delve into the Crystal War in a profound way. It is around the time that you can meet Queen Leaute, the expanding D’Oraguille family, the hero Karaha-Baruha, the former Mithra Matriarch Perih Vashai, and a host of other famous NPCs. Players who have been in FFXI for a long time have a lot to look forward to. In addition, what appeared to be “Atomos,” was also shown in the movie. The Crystal War seems to have much more to it than what we think we know.

There were also some details on the expansion’s content. The Vana’diel of the past will have new maps and new monsters as well. They also reiterated there will be a large-scale battle system implemented too. It was brief, but I saw a snippet of a Besieged-like battle playing out inside a town.

This movie will be available on the main site, starting September 22nd. Still the sound quality will be low, and you won’t get the same intense feel of watching it unfold on the big screen. I highly recommend seeing it at the convention if you have the chance.

Raydeus

09-20-2007, 08:13 PM

1000g say we'll see a flood of Rukia dancer macros.

"Some no mai! <annoyingcall1> <insert spell/ability name>"

"Tsugi no mai! <annoyingcall2> <insert spell/ability name>"

But I hope it's just baseless phear. @_@;

WishMaster3K

09-20-2007, 08:29 PM

It's a lot better than a kajillion "HADOKEN" macros.

Omgwtfbbqkitten

09-20-2007, 08:33 PM

Nothing is more horrid than the roleplay /say SMN and the Papa Roach DRK.

Pteryx

09-21-2007, 12:30 PM

Let's not forget all the "kage bunshin no jutsu" Utsusemi macros. When they aren't even physical and thus would be more like plain Bunshin. Oy. :P

On a more serious note, I'm hoping we soon get some clue as to what Dancer does. There are all kinds of things it theoretically could do, after all. -- Pteryx

Shadowneko

09-21-2007, 12:55 PM

My brain gets numb after 4 pages so here I go anyway. Dancer from FFV wasn't very usefull...I mean you could get "equip ribbons" and sometimes do "Swords Dance" but it just wan't that usefull as a straight up job. I have little experence with it outside FFV since I have not gotten hardcore into the FFT series so I don't know that. FF6 is one of my favs and the area dances were really fun to use....

I'm just not sure how it would work XD

Time mage I could see working as a debuffer/attacker with spells mentioned in the thread + cosmic magic bout I want to make additions:

Spell #1 Age- currently used my undead things in FFXI and the signuatre buff of time mages in FFV. It totally made the monsters weak.

Spell #2: Starudst- a cosmic AoE attack spell

Extra spells- just create some under the whole "cosmic magic" bit. The posibilites are endless XD

Malacite

09-21-2007, 01:34 PM

When they aren't even physical and thus would be more like plain Bunshin. Oy.

No, they are in fact Shadow Clones/Images, so that term is correct. What's interesting though is the actual meaning of the word. Utsusemi means "cast of shell of a cicada".

back on topic, I'm very curious as to how DDR (I'm gonna keep refering to it as that until SE releases the official abreviation :P) interacts with BRD.

Kailea

09-21-2007, 01:47 PM

No, they are in fact Shadow Clones/Images, so that term is correct. What's interesting though is the actual meaning of the word. Utsusemi means "cast of shell of a cicada".
back on topic, I'm very curious as to how DDR (I'm gonna keep refering to it as that until SE releases the official abreviation :P) interacts with BRD.

try DNR -.-

anyway.....

like I sad before it could to two ways with Dancer

1) Geodancer (like Mog from FFVI)
2) Opposite of BRD... BRD has roughly 80% buff and 20% debuff, Dancer or DNR would be just the other way around

or maybe even a mix of the two, so they could get two jobs in with just one, then that would make the other job to be released Time Mage

Taskmage

09-21-2007, 02:02 PM

DNR = do not resuscitate?

Raydeus

09-21-2007, 02:41 PM

Dances Non-Refundable.

It's a Norg thing.

Kailea

09-21-2007, 02:42 PM

DNR = do not resuscitate?

lol yes.... once you die as Dancer.... thats it, your deleted :p

Feba

09-21-2007, 03:00 PM

thats it, your deleted :p
my deleted what?

raidenn

09-21-2007, 03:15 PM

2 hour move:
"The Forbidden Dance"

nanatsu

09-21-2007, 03:20 PM

No, they are in fact Shadow Clones/Images, so that term is correct. What's interesting though is the actual meaning of the word. Utsusemi means "cast of shell of a cicada".
back on topic, I'm very curious as to how DDR (I'm gonna keep refering to it as that until SE releases the official abreviation :P) interacts with BRD.

What he means is that people are using quotes from Naruto, when Utsusemi isn't llike Kage Bunshin no Jutsu from the Naruto series. If your shadows did act like Kage Bunshin no Jutsu, then your copies would be doing additional damage to the enemy as well as being able to use all the abilities you possess. Utsusemi from FFXI are just illusions that disappear when you hit them. Just like the normal Bunshin jutsu from Naruto