Is Black Mage the perfect job?

[Rain_Blade]

The reason I have that title as is it is because I have never seen many Black Mage complaints or requests for updates for them. It makes me wonder is everyone completely satisfied with this job. So far, the only bad thing I can think of is that it isn't useful as a subjob except for a job that has Enfeebling Magic (such as Whm and Rdm) and Dark Magic (such as Dark Knights). I mean like...I'm not trying to say there SHOULD be something wrong with Black Mage since SE might actually one day change a job to make it satisfying to everyone and be done with it (unless they like to add more of their ideas to it). So is there anything wrong with Black Mage? Has it satisfied all of you?

Note: I'm excluding the Aht Urgan vs Blm thing. I'm mainly talking about the job itself.

[Taskmage]

Well, party-wise blms get screwed since their heavy mp dependance causes downtime in the fast-chaining parties the playerbase has become accustomed to. People complained about that for a while, but I guess most blms either learned to solo pets or it just went out of style to gripe about. Endgame blm has a lot going for them, so in the part of the game that tends to produce the most bitching blms are pretty well off.

[Murphie]

The only problem I've ever personally had with BLM is the same thing Taskmage mentioned above. I enjoy the job, but it's heavy dependence on MP makes for slow going, especially later on when they have scads of MP. I mean, the job is still pretty kickass, and I wish I had the patience to solo mine up to 75. Because that kind of raw firepower would be pretty nifty. But I don't.

[Jei]

They were similar to Summoners in that they have a very specific task in parties. Blm and SMN will get called a lot for missions, quests and NM/HNMs. Everyone expect BLM to be there and nuke and die for others. But when it comes to EXP party, no one cares for them and they're left to get their own EXP themselves.

Without the buring trend, I think the job is fine. Remember when PTing was about killing IT's and magic burst?

[Malacite]

Someone's never been to the other forums it would seem.

BLM have been screaming bloody murder since ToAU began. It's really, really hard to get a PT these days on BLM (at least on my server) so it's a damn good thing the job can solo as well as it does.

Everyone wants it for events, but no one wants to help them level. Soloing gets pretty boring after a while you know.

[Silent Howler]

Hm, never really thought about that until now. But it does seem like a lot less people complain about Blm than with other jobs. But of course, Blm is a very unique job in it's own. A Rng may look at a Drg and compare their damage capabilities, and then may complain about the outcome. Blm is different and doesn't have a whole lot to compare itself too. Yes, they do have a DD role like a Rng does, but their damage is based on MP rather than weaponry. They could compare themselves to Smn, but people complain about that job 100x more, so Blm kind of wins over that by default. Not saying Blm is better than Smn, just that people are more satisfied with the job.

[IfritnoItazura]

I think job itself is OK, though some (BRP comes to mind) constantly demand S-E add ways for it get save/get MP.

IMO, it's overbuffing of melee (gears, and the recent upgrade to two-handed weapons) and monster/camp design from ToAU which is really wrecking havoc with BLM's invite rate, but the job itself is fine.

[Kirsteena]

I have to admit, I get bored soloing blm, but it is a nightmare to get a party - I basically soloed from about 53. But I have to solo to keep my buffer up, especially when people are lax in getting a group of statues off me and I spend a fair bit of time face up (personal gripe from last night's Dynamis).

[Olorin401]

I soloed or manaburned from about 60 to 75.. but something weird happened... When I was 70-71 I started getting normal parties every once in a while, I mean parties with a tank and RDM and some DDs! I think people started to realize that BLMs need love too, especially the Japanese players.

[hongman]

My BLM is 41 (like 1k from 42) and I would love to take it to 75 next, but the slow-go of soloing (and boring) just puts me off. PT invites are slow at that lvl range anyway, being a BLM just makes it slow-er!

[Coinspinner]

Remember when PTing was about killing IT's and magic burst?

Grouping with a normal party as a BLM, magic bursting a skillchain, that is my favorite way to level up in any MMO I've played. I took interest in this game again after reading about the upcoming expansion and I'm kinda disappointed that that style has become obsolete since I left the game.

[Feba]

Most people that dislike BLM dislike the core of the job, not how it's currently implemented. Those people just quitely switch to another job. The people that remain are happy with blowing shit up

[Malacite]

Blowing shit up is awesome, but seldom worthwhile.


I still say the fix lies in skill chains. Lord knows if they didn't get resisted like 90% of the time and did decent damage, then it would be worth it even in merits.

A good light chain (in merits) should be enough to take out most of a mob's HP, which would allow a BLM to burst a tier 3 spell (to save MP) to finish it off, thus conserving MP.


That's the job's biggest problem (well 1 of) in EXP. It's very difficult to conserve MP in a fast party since tier 4 nukes require quite a lot of MP. In that light, I fully support Legal Fish's idea for a conserve MP effect on skill chains. Some unique party buffs for BLM would be cool too.


SE said they'd be doing something about it, maybe it's coming now with Wings on the horizon. They did promise to re-balance *all* the jobs and add new spells.



Finally, soloing on BLM is anything but slow. Most camps average at least 7k/hour if not more. It just gets dull being required to do that.

[Niin]

i usually hate mage jobs i find them boring jus standing there n casting but BLM is the only one that i find fun, gunna take it all the way ^.^

[Mhurron]

Necroposts are bad, m'kay.

[Callisto]

Heh, had a reply written up before I saw that.
------------------------------------------
Automerge add goodness: In fairness they just joined, it's new to them.

[Silent Howler]

It was only a two month necro; not even. I don't see what's so bad about that.

[Karinya]

Anyway, when the same issues come up again and again, it's better than starting new threads on the same subject.

BLM is undoubtedly the best in the game at what they do. I agree with Itazura above that it's primarily the TP burn dynamic that makes them undesirable in exp parties. When they get an effective minimum of 5 mp/tick (one refresher, sanction, one item refresh) plus resting with a ton of Clear Mind and still can't put out enough damage to keep up with melees, it's clear that the monsters being fought have too much Magic Def Bonus/resists, too little physical defense/evasion or both. (Possibly as a result of their relatively low level. Level affects physical damage much more than magical damage, which is precisely why BLM are so valuable at HNM; but the reverse is they don't gain much power against wimpier exp targets.) Sudden, defense ignoring damage isn't that valuable against the common exp targets of the ToAU era the way it was against CoP's rams and Kindred or RoZ's Ladons and Darksteel Golems/Aura Statues (and still is, if anyone bothers to fight them.)

In any case, we'll know in a couple weeks if WotG is going to do anything to change the overall problems in party dynamics at the higher levels, or if /SCH will help BLM fit in better in the high-level parties that currently exist, or if they'll pretty much stay the same.

P.S. Why aren't there any foods with magic attack and accuracy bonuses? Melees have their choice of attack or accuracy foods, but mages are still stuck with max MP or hMP that only helps if you sit, and piddly-at-high-levels amounts of INT and MND. New foods could significantly help magic damage dealers (BLM and now, SCH and possibly DNC) and start doing so pretty much immediately, without dividing the community between people who have [insert new uber gear here] and people who don't.

SE has to be very careful with BLM though, because they are already extremely strong in some contexts (while being not so useful in others). Unless they're going to alter the effects of level on nuking, I don't see how they can make BLM's power match melee DDs' power against a range of different targets and situations.

[Malacite]

P.S. Why aren't there any foods with magic attack and accuracy bonuses?


QFT. This should be asked @ Fan Fest IMO.

[Neomage]

i usually hate mage jobs i find them boring jus standing there n casting but BLM is the only one that i find fun, gunna take it all the way ^.^

...

If a thread is over a week old, please don't post in it >.<

Even that is pushing it.

[Taskmage]

P.S. Why aren't there any foods with magic attack and accuracy bonuses? Melees have their choice of attack or accuracy foods, but mages are still stuck with max MP or hMP that only helps if you sit, and piddly-at-high-levels amounts of INT and MND.Speaking of magic accuracy only, it may be that some food actually does enhance magic accuracy and we just don't know. Unlike physical attack stats it's very difficult to objectively measure magic acc, or even notice it in less than dramatic amounts.

[Silent Howler]

...

If a thread is over a week old, please don't post in it >.<

Even that is pushing it.
If you take a look at his profile you'll see that that was the very first post he made on these forums. Enough with the criticism.

[Taskmage]

Anyway, when the same issues come up again and again, it's better than starting new threads on the same subject.I agree with this.

[Karinya]

Speaking of magic accuracy only, it may be that some food actually does enhance magic accuracy and we just don't know. Unlike physical attack stats it's very difficult to objectively measure magic acc, or even notice it in less than dramatic amounts.
Well, I suppose that's true. And there are some hypotheses to the effect that INT and MND affect magic accuracy of the affected spells, but in very small amounts; nothing like the dramatic accuracy difference of sushi.

I think if there were any foods that did for resist rates what sushi does for miss rates we'd probably have noticed by now. But it's possible that it's just on some food nobody ever uses (because the *known* stats suck) and SE is laughing up their sleeves at all of us.

[IfritnoItazura]

How about Conserve MP food? I wouldn't mind that, either.

[Pteryx]

Food that emphasizes specific elemental properties would be interesting, too. Shiva Gelato: INT+3, AGI-2, Ice Attack Bonus +6, Wind Attack Bonus -3, Ice Accuracy Bonus +10, Wind Accuracy Bonus -5, Ice Resistance +25, Wind Resistance +25, Fire Resistance -25? -- Pteryx

[Olorin401]

These are some interesting ideas.. considering how once you reach a certain level of a baseline stat it loses some effectiveness.

I like the elemental accuracy bonus ideas.. it's be terrific for RDMs! I just have a feeling that kind of food would end up costing a fortune. Not a complaint though since I've got cooking levelled! :D

[Niin]

sorry only jus saw the post date

[Mhurron]

...
If a thread is over a week old, please don't post in it >.<
Even that is pushing it.
If you take a look at his profile you'll see that that was the very first post he made on these forums. Enough with the criticism.
They added nothing to the discussion beyond "BLM ROX!"

[Callisto]

If you take a look at his profile you'll see that that was the very first post he made on these forums. Enough with the criticism.

Heh glad noone went after me when I joined. How many 6 month old RDM threads did I necro to talk about macros, gear, and *glee* Vorpal Blade? At least 5-6 of them IIRC. I'd like to think I spurred some decent discusson as well.

Add: LoL I completely forgot to post what I meant to: I've been begging for MAcc food for awhile now, like some sort of sushi that did MND/INT+5 MAcc +15%(hell I'd be pretty happy with sushi that did DEX/INT+5 and melee acc+15%)

MAcc is so unproportionately nerfed compared to physical accuracy it's not even funny. WAR with 276 skill ripping a 2k WS on Kirin, no problem! RDM with 320~ friggin skill landing Paralyze, don't even think about it. ^^;

[Taskmage]

Food that emphasizes specific elemental properties would be interesting, too. Shiva Gelato: INT+3, AGI-2, Ice Attack Bonus +6, Wind Attack Bonus -3, Ice Accuracy Bonus +10, Wind Accuracy Bonus -5, Ice Resistance +25, Wind Resistance +25, Fire Resistance -25? -- PteryxI think that'd be a neat idea. Essentially supercharge your elemental staff, but the decision is locked in for half an hour or more.

[Malacite]

I'd much rather SE make a new food that gives +MAB

Some higher tier foods like Rice Dumplings (Mix of Acc and Attack up) would be nice, but the dumplings are already a lv 95 synth > _ <

[Karinya]

For a while now they've been biasing all new recipes toward the 100+3 crafter. I guess that's understandable given how many there are, but it just keeps the scene ultra-harsh for people who haven't reached 100 yet.

Anyway, I'd like to vote against the one-element-only foods. Foods are locked in for too long to make them *that* narrow. You can swap your gear with every spell (well, a few pieces anyway) but you can't swap your food until it wears off.

Again, compare melee foods. The same food helps normal swings, WS, kicks, jumps, and sometimes ranged attacks too - and that's regardless of what weapon you're using. Imagine melees needing one food to help their main hand weapon, another to help their offhand (if DWing), a third to help WS and a fourth for damaging JAs and you're starting to approach what element-specific foods would be like for mages.

[Silent Howler]

They added nothing to the discussion beyond "BLM ROX!"
So? I didn't say his post was valid to the discussion, just that people should lay off on the criticism. You can't expect everyone to meet all of your expectations the day they join a new site. But enough about this.

[Karinya]

They added nothing to the discussion beyond "BLM ROX!"
Which is two on-topic words more than *you've* added to the thread.

If the admins wanted to implement auto-lock on threads over a certain age, I'm sure they could. They don't. Accept it or start your own forums. I'm getting tired of the Crusade Against Old Posts showing up every time someone wants to discuss an issue that's been discussed sometime before in the 5 year history of the game.

If I were an admin, any post about "necroposting" would be deleted on sight. It contributes even less to the discussion than the most content-free "me too" of a 6-month-old thread, *and* it's pointless whining about nothing.


To return to the topic: BLM isn't the perfect job. But it is a job that's very good at what it does, which is why most criticisms of it are rather pointless.
"BLM dies too much!" -- Well duh, try something with HP and armor, or that gets less hate.
"BLM needs MP to do anything!" -- What part of "mage" don't you understand?
"BLM isn't very desirable against mobs that cast all your spells back at you or spam AoE Silence!" -- Duh again. Fight something else.
"But the other things don't give as much exp/hr" -- ok, this one is a genuine issue that SE needs to fix (and not just for BLMs). But aside from that, BLM is pretty much fine.

[Malacite]

Necroposts be damned! (the term I mean ^^)

[Chubsmgee]

I honestly think that BLm is the perfect starting job and fun PTing job if u got nice linkshell friends