How Much is enough??

[neokaril]

I'm not looking for someone to do the math for me, I'm just looking for some guidance or gauge with respect to upgrading. I am Currently running heavy on RSE equipment and I'm not sure how long the lack of def can be excused for the huge bumps to DEX et al.

Current EQUIP & Food & other data listed below. Anything I'm forgetting let me know, thanks for your time.

Party Setup DRG/WHM DRG/WHM

Elvaan Fem
lvl 36

Current Equipment

Lance (DPS: 622 DMG (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=126):51 Delay (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=125):492)
Brass Grip +1 (DEX (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=6)+2)
Windurstian Headgear (DEF (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=2):11 STR (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=5)+1 DEX (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=6)+1) +10MP in ctrl areas
Mrc Cap Doublet (http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=12598&sid=32&stack=0) (DEF (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=2):20 DEX (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=6)+1 AGI (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=8)+1)
Magna Gloves (DEF (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=2):6 MP (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=4)+24 DEX (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=6)+2 INT (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=9)+1)
Magna Chausses (DEF (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=2):12 HP (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=3)+12 MP (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=4)+12 DEX (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=6)+2 AGI (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=8)+2)
Magna Ledelsens (DEF (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=2):5 MP (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=4)+20 AGI (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=8)+3 INT (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=9)+2)
Ram Mantle +1 (DEF (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=2):6)
Spike Necklace (STR (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=5)+3 DEX (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=6)+3 MND (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=10)-6)
Courage Ring +1 x2 (DEF (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=2):1 STR (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=5)+2)
Warrior's Belt +1 (DEF (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=2):2 HP (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=3)+4 VIT (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=7)+3)
Drone EarRings X2 (AGI (http://www.ffxiah.com/item_search.php?stat_id=8)+3)
*Already Plan on upgrading rings to Puissance +1 when i can find some*
* I can turn the Merc in to its upgraded ver, just havent yet the MErc is worth more and if i go another way why loose the cash..
Current Food is Royal/Imperial Omelettes
Food Effects: (3 hours, Elvaan only)
* HP +20
* MP +20
* Strength +6
* Dexterity +2
* Intelligence -2
* Mind +5
* Charisma +4
* Attack +22% (Cap: 80@363 Base Attack)
* Ranged Attack +22% (Cap: 80@363 Base Ranged Attack)

or Yellow Curry
*HP +20
*Strength +5
*Agility +2
*Intelligence -4
*HP Regeneration While Healing +2
*MP Regeneration While Healing +1
*Resist Stun
*Resist Sleep
*Attack +20% (Cap: 75@375 Base Attack)
*Ranged Attack +20% (Cap: 75@375 Base Ranged Attack)
*180 mins
So essentially, how much DEX is enough, How much STR is enough and is my sacrificing DEF for them ok.. Thoughts are appreciated, keeping in mind party construct. Thanks again (/em pokes SEV)

If I forgot anything pertinent let me know!

[Omni]

You should go test this setup in an XP and see how well your accuracy is. Your defense isnt really a big issue so I'd suggest keep adding as much acc and atk as you can.

[neokaril]

Thanks Omni, ACC hasn't been an issue, I have never ran an xp party EVER lol, but we can duo the Crawlers in the Nest(40-44) (with care). In fact it was the crawlers thats got me wondering, my Galka partner wasn't pulling hate off of me (probably because I dia pull) and I was getting tattoo'd by the IT Crawlers, tonight I'll pop some birds instead, while I evaluate the sage input i should get from this esteemed forum.

Config listed above has me at 223ATT and 150ish DEF

[Taskmage]

What do you guys genearally shoot for in terms of acc on your melee? Is there a specific accuracy you try to obtain or just stack on as much as possible without sacrificing too much attack and str?

[neokaril]

That's the answer I'm trying to get.. currently I have been just stacking on as much as I can in each and sacrificing DEF to do it.
Every other game I have played runs either caps or diminishing returns so I would believe this does also, so at what point is enough enough so I can focus on other areas..
Like I said, not trying to have someone else do the math for me, I'll play with it, I'm just wondering if there are job/race specific formulas..

[nanatsu]

It largely depends on your level and what you have available to you, but at 36, acc is not your problem, and it won't really be a huge problem until you start rolling close to 50. Basically, at this level, you want to be eating meat. Any acc you can get your hands on to support that is a bonus, but nothing more than a bonus. Don't worry about DEF. If you're getting hit that heavily, carry an alternate DEF set with you and swap it in when you take hate. You're a DD, so you might as well throw all notions of def out the window. Otherwise you'll fall behind other DD rather easily.

Basic rule of thumb is to pile on as much acc as it takes to hit the mob consistently. After that point, you're free to pile on attack. You mix and match armor as much as you need to, and select your food choices accordingly in order to accomplish consistent hit rate and decent damage.

Don't overload on acc. Get only as much as you need. Hitting often is all fine and good but if you're hitting the mob like a pld something is wrong. You'll need to test your dex setup to find the optimum. Keep adding dex and acc until the mob checks low evasion, then STOP at that point and start adding attack. That may not be the *optimum* optimum, but it's a good start. Sooner or later you'll start getting a feel of what works best for you.

As a hint, a popular choice for food is Rice Dumplings, since it grants you some attack while giving you a boost in acc. It's a small boost, but since acc is not a big deal in low levels, it's usually enough.

[nanatsu]

Just to add, don't eat Yellow Curry at level 36 please. That's a waste of food. You need a food with a higher attack percentage for a lower level. Something like Meat Mithkabobs is fine for your level. It'll grant you a higher attack boost than yellow curry until you reach the cap. Things that work well for high levels aren't necessarily the best for low levels.

EDIT: I was speaking purely from a exp party perspective. I kinda skimmed over your post, and didn't notice until later that you were talking more about duoing.

In that case you're probably fighting T-VT right? You'd probably do better pulling off a high HP/def setup if you're duoing on T mobs. Since your acc and attack won't be hurting against T and low VT, pumping up your defense for better survivability could be a good way to go. As a mnk, when I solo or duo I go for HP+, counter, guard and evasion more than attack and acc in order to maximize my survivability. It's obvious that if you go in with a full DD setup you'll take more damage.

There aren't any maximized formulas based on race and job. You can either pile on defense to last longer and take a small hit to your damage ability, pile on attack and hope you obliterate it before it has a chance to really hurt you, or pick something somewhere in between. I just go in with what I got and adjust. If you were soloing, that's a different story. You pile on everything that helps you survive the best. Since you've got a partner, kill speed in significantly increased, and with drg healing abilities you can afford to be a little lax on the def.

My advice? Go in with full defense setup and see how well you do. As long as you're not trying to fight IT, your damage shouldn't be that bad. Then start adjusting your setup until you perform how you want.

[eticket109]

Since you'll be sharing a lot of the hate I would stack more evasion or defense. I would recommend using an emp. pin and nomad's mantle. Personally, I think the Republic subligar is a better choice then the rse legs as well but that's a toss up. They're pretty even depending on your stats and intended use. The merc. doublet has horrendous defense and the stat bonus it gives won't do you any good KO'ed. You may want to consider the Republic Scale Mail but I recommend the Cuir Bouli at 38. You'll also want an Obelisk Lance +1 at 38 as well.

[neokaril]

Since you'll be sharing a lot of the hate I would stack more evasion or defense. I would recommend using an emp. pin and nomad's mantle. Personally, I think the Republic subligar is a better choice then the rse legs as well but that's a toss up. They're pretty even depending on your stats and intended use. The merc. doublet has horrendous defense and the stat bonus it gives won't do you any good KO'ed. You may want to consider the Republic Scale Mail but I recommend the Cuir Bouli at 38. You'll also want an Obelisk Lance +1 at 38 as well.

Yeah already looking at Bouli at 38, but thx bought the standard Obe, 185k more for 1 str seems a bit off,

Republic Scale not on but a BAstok is, we shall see if still there when i get home

I recently switched from the nomad mantle and dodge earings, figured i wasnt going to evade VT/IT's without a full on EVA build, but can easily move back to them

Republic Subligar looks like it may be worth using, was concerned with MP levels with /WHM ..thanks.



For Nanatsu,

The Yellow Curry is Cheap 4k for 3 hrs Chief kabobs are 12k stack 3 of them for 3 hours, plus the plethora of other enhancement delivered over kabobs is very benifical esp in small group, hMP hHp resists etc, but thanks. Omelettes I get for free. I understand I'm overkill on the ATT%, but again small groups mean I need all the other bennies

Rgr on the no formula's, i figured it would be the hit and miss per mob guesstimation, but had to ask, would love a calulator, but I guess that would make it too easy to dial in.


Thank you both for your time!

[nanatsu]

Well what I was really saying is that you'd get a higher attack bonus from something like mithkabobs, and that's really the most important thing when DDing, but if you're doing well with what you got I won't fault you for it. Since your talking about duoing anyway, what works best for you is what works best for you.

[neokaril]

Gotcha,

I know you already know the numbers, but the dif between 20% and 22% (curry to mithkabob) is like 4 on ATT and the omelettes are actually 22% and have an adidtional +1 to STR as well as HP MP and DEX Bonus.


I understand different dynamics exist in full parties, you can specialize more and truth be told if the omelettes weren't free (my recompense for helping a friend with royal jelly) I would def be on board with mithkabobs more. If i ever decide to pick up a party with any job I guess I will really have to rework my builds..



Again thanks for your time and responses

[Malacite]

Kabobs are for 50+ actually.

by 36 you should be eating either Dhalmel Steak or Wild Steak (the HQ).

Also, with the recent changes to 2 handers (1 STR = 1 ATK and 1 DEX = 1 Acc) you shouldn't need to worry too much anymore. DRG just got a 2nd accuracy bonus trait as well (presumed to be at lv 50) so let the good times roll.

[Lmnop]

equip macros ftw. Full defense and/or evasion when he's looking at you, full attack when he's looking at your buddy. ...And probably some mp gear to start. Don't have to treat all 13 slots like that, but having some slots where the difference is significant (RSE vs Iron) really can help... or at least keep you believing it helps.

If you're duo'ing, you don't need much accuracy.

And I haven't read anything about the new acc bonus trait, but I would assume it's 70. DRG already get attack bonus II at 50. And most of those "Bonus" traits come at levels 10, 30, 50, and 70. I can't think of any exceptions offhand but I assume they exist.

[Malacite]

equip macros ftw. Full defense and/or evasion when he's looking at you, full attack when he's looking at your buddy. ...And probably some mp gear to start. Don't have to treat all 13 slots like that, but having some slots where the difference is significant (RSE vs Iron) really can help... or at least keep you believing it helps.

If you're duo'ing, you don't need much accuracy.

And I haven't read anything about the new acc bonus trait, but I would assume it's 70. DRG already get attack bonus II at 50. And most of those "Bonus" traits come at levels 10, 30, 50, and 70. I can't think of any exceptions offhand but I assume they exist.


>-> since when? Or have I missed something in my 4 years of playing?

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Dragoon

Job Traits

Level Name 10 Attack Bonus (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Attack_Bonus) 25 Dragon Killer (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Dragon_Killer) 30 Accuracy Bonus (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Accuracy_Bonus) 50 http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/images/b/b7/Exclamation.gif (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Image:Exclamation.gif) Accuracy Bonus II (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Accuracy_Bonus) 75 (Merit (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Merit_Points)) Empathy (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Empathy) 75 (Merit (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Merit_Points)) Strafe (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Strafe)

[Vyuru]

DRG already get attack bonus II at 50.

We do? Last I heard we got attack bonus I at lvl 10 and accuracy bonus I at lvl 30, and besides dragon killer trait that's it to my knowledge, well plus the new accuracy bonus II.

My recommendation, do not go with an evasion build. Yes the effects of an evasion build are more noticable on T-VT mobs rather than the ITs that a party exps on, but I think what will happen will be you need a full evasion build to make it worthwhile, and then when the mob hits you it is going to hurt. I could be wrong, but I suspect that is what will happen.

Right now since you are duoing you run into a slight problem where either one of you may get hate, so you both may have to gear accordingly. You might want to see if any of your other friends have any jobs that they want to level with you where they can come either warrior main or /war for Provoke and tanking purposes. With a tank you guys can gear up on the magey aspects as much as you like and with 2x drg/mage it really shouldn't matter what job is tanking.

If you are looking at gear just for you, I think I would recommend:

Head: Leave as is for now
Body: Damn but Deimos's Cuirass looks drop dead sexy for this level, but sadly you probably don't have it :P Cuir Bouilli or Iron Scale Mail. Although when you get higher I would highly recommend the Earth Doublet, looks damn fine and lotsa +vit :P
Hands: Leave as is, nice mp on those
Legs: Probably swap for Bastokan Subligar
Feet: I don't know what to say there, the RSE has nice mp on them, so it's hard to say.

I would recommend picking up a Medieval Collar and 2x Verve Rings. The +vit will actually help you quite alot against EM-VT mobs, IMO more so or at least equal to having 2x Electrum rings (+40mp)

I swapped quite a bit of +mp equipment for the +vit stuff and it really does bring down how hard mobs hit you and the power/frequency of their critical hit rates.

Experiment with it though, and find what works for you. Now that we get a fairly massive boost to attack with 2handed weapons you may want to consider defense food, I don't know though.

Oh, that does bring up a blue mage subjob, Cocoon is pretty powerfull from what I hear, and that would give you a sizable defense boost and let you eat meat dishes if you wanted.

Been kicked off the computer off and on for awhile now so sorry if someone has posted this or similar stuff since I started writing it like 4 hours ago >.>

[Lmnop]

oups! Guess I was thinking of WAR's Defense Bonus progression. Game on.


Btw, when I head out and duo stuff with my DRG friend. Even when I come war/nin with bloody bolts, I seem to end up being an mp sink. Maybe this is just in my mind, but it seems like DRGs are a lot more efficient at curing themselves. A Rdm, brd, or cor with decent melee skills, on the other hand, would [probably] turn that into an incredible trio.

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

While you should do well as a duo, you may find it much easier with a dedicated tank. I agree with Vyuru that you could just invite another player who can come as WAR or /WAR. You will still get a 22.22% bonus to your xp from signet with a party of three. You don't have Penta Thrust yet, so they should not have much trouble holding hate.

PLD/WAR: Flash, Autorefresh, Shield
SAM/WAR: Seigan+Third Eye, Good evasion, Tachi: Enpi
MNK/WAR: Boost, Highest HP, Good evasion, Combo
WAR/MNK: Boost, Shield Break, Sturmwind
NIN/WAR: Shadows, Very high evasion

Those are five job combinations for great tanks for you guys, and I believe there are many more which will work. However, I only list these five because others require a player who is properly geared for tanking to do it right. This will allow the two of you to focus on healing and damage while completely forgetting about defense.

I'd thoroughly enjoy tanking for two DRG/mage, but then again I like small parties and tanking. I would think that you could almost always find someone interested, and you may make a few new friends this way.

[Malacite]

2 DRG/WHM's (or one of you could go /BLU) should be just fine for duo.


My advice is to both eat meat, bring juices for emergencies (I never needed them soloing personally) and target enemies that are weak to piercing damage. DRG's soloing style (from what I've noticed at least) is to kill ASAP, using the wyvern as a means of staying alive unlike a RDM who will expends resources to outlast a mob.

[neokaril]

Vyuru, you are my hero, thanks so much for taking the time to right out such a thoughtful response.

Deimos set is out of the question for me, by the time I am able to collect it I wont need it for DRG anymore, but your right it is the ish.

I picked up the Republic Subligar and Bastokan Scale and borrowed +1 Puissance, my partner switched to Astrals (Galka MP is even worse than Elvaan), I'm still evaluating the other pieces.

I see your point about getting a dedicated tank, the problem is I have 294 levels of solo or duo and a pick up tank means a lot of sitting around. I've never had to lfg.

I may buy some redundant pieces and play with boosting VIT some.. I have no problem Macroing equip, but +mp equip in a macro is silly.

Again thanks so much to all of you for your time and consideration, I appreciate all of your input.

[eticket109]

Some VIT+ on equipment has a couple of benefits. Not only is it good for the defense/ -crit % curve, but you'll find that it will help your jumps ever so slightly as well. A lot of DRG specific gear at later levels has VIT on it.

[Lmnop]

I have no problem Macroing equip, but +mp equip in a macro is silly.


I didn't mean swap into it >.> If you rest to full whenever you do rest, having some extra mp is always helpful to keep going longer. Still, it's not an incredibly important gear set up to have, and hMP is usually better (though good luck getting this as DRG?).

[neokaril]

I didn't mean swap into it >.> If you rest to full whenever you do rest, having some extra mp is always helpful to keep going longer. Still, it's not an incredibly important gear set up to have, and hMP is usually better (though good luck getting this as DRG?).

The internet is not always your friend when it comes to intent and understanding, sorry >.<. Yeah I have noticed with my WHM it's no longer an issue of not having enough MP but rather an issue of getting it back as quickly as possible..Obviously I cant go to a full hMP food, with DRG that would be silly, yellow curry does give me a +1hMP and +2hHp, it's small but something..

WOuold be nice if my pilgrim's was all jobs, but the gamestoo smart for that..