Summoner & Wings of the Goddess Discussion

[Omniblast]

Well I don't remember if anyone else remembers any type of discussion about Summoners, but what will happen to Summoners in WotG?

Technically Summoning was a forbidden magic back then, and Fenrir was the only Avatar who saved the people of Windurst from a Advancing Beastmen attack. (unless, there was another story to tell of this... or people have just had their memories... forgotten...)

What will happen when we travel back in time? Will our Avatars disappear? Will they be replaced by others? (They are after all tied to the Protocrystals back in our own time.)

If anyone has anything to add, please do. If you remember more of the storyline please fill me in on it again, as I have forgotten.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Here's the deal. You're a weak, puny mortal that kicked a god's ass. As a result of the pact they made with you to aid you, they have to do all you say. Even if it means going back in time before they made a pact with you to fight for you.

Its the way of things for SMN. You prove your power, avatars obey you. Rydia kicks Ashura's ass, Ashura has to obey her. :P

[Kardor]

Hmm i dont think that a Time Travel would affect the SUmmons. Like BBQKitten said you have beaten the Primes and they gave you a shard of their power, since the Protocrystals already existed during the Crystal War it wont be a problem i think.

Besides it wouldnt make sense to send a Summoner back in time if it strips him of the only way to do anything. Since Altana is a Goddess i recon she is bright enough to realize this.

And Summoning is still forbidden, in fact it was forbidden after Fenrir and a big Portion of Mindarta nearly died due to Kara Baruna's (spelled wrong i guess) actions. Kara did "rediscover" the art of summoning back then.

But also keep in mind the ultimate Explanation for things happening during a Time Travel. "A Time Travel is already finished before you start it."

[emeraldpearl]

avartars after you beat them give you their power so you can do with them as you will, i really dont think time travel will make a little bit of difference to be honest.

although the idea of "new" avatars to defeat while in the past would be a great idea. maybe new look given to the avatars you already have. i dont know but i cant wait to find out

[Silent Howler]

I was starting to wonder if this could possibly open up something for Phoenix...

[HairdewX]

well I think the real question we should all be asking ourselves is: Can the PS2 handle it? ;)

[Eiyoko]

In the Windurst Plot, there is a scene where Karaha-Baruha (dubbed a hero; he was also the very first Summoner) drains Fenrir's energies from Full Moon Fountain, effectively stealing Fenrir himself. He later summoned Fenrir at full strength against the Yagudo during the Crystal War to save Windurst, though he did not save Windurst from its predicted fate - he only prolonged and twisted it.

This led to two things:

One: The Avatars now only give us a "fragment" of their power; since Karaha-Baruha died summoning Fenrir, it became apparent that the entirety of an Avatar's power is too much for the mortal body and, if used, will destroy it ultimately. I don't recall hearing anything about their great and well-known hero having a famous grave, you know...

Two: This power ultimately frightened both sides of the battle - Yagudo and Windurst. Even though Fenrir was summoned to defend Windurst as his purpose at the time, the Star Sybil knew that mortals were never meant to contain that much magical power of any sort, much less control it or have it in any form or manner. This was further confirmed with the disappearance/death of Karaha-Baruha. Thus, Summoning Magic was outlawed.


Also, one must also consider the concept of magic itself. It is not really something "invented" at all; you'll notice that many residents of Vana'diel refer to it being "discovered" somewhat (the only known exception to this so far is Blue Magic, which was invented somewhat by the Alchemists of Al Zahbi). This means that it existed before they knew about it, but it didn't necessarily lie there unable to function; they simply didn't know how to utilize it. Besides, it is mentioned that the Kuluu came up with their own magic at some point, and it was related closely, if not directly, to the avatars one way or another (I don't remember clearly, so I can't say). The first Star Sybil probably discovered what remained of their magic when she stumbled upon Full Moon Fountain that day long, long ago...but it probably took time to decipher this mysterious power's many secrets.

And who's to say we haven't discovered them all yet...?

(I could get deeper into this, but then this post would belong in a different forum. O.o)

[Legal Fish]

I don't see how anyone who completed the ToAU storyline can think we'll be getting Alexander or Odin. Just their appearance(including fragments like Luzaf and someone else) is enough to evoke Ragonak. Though...

uh... I don't know how to spoiler? So uh....

There is an Astral Gate at the end.

[Eiyoko]

...is enough to evoke Ragonak. ...

The eight Celestial Avatars have already appeared, as have all five of the Terrestrial Avatars. I doubt we'll be seeing more avatars. That doesn't mean there's a chance we'll get something new, however; I just don't think it'll happen, personally.

[IfritnoItazura]

Hmm... It was called "The Crystal War", and those Crystals are connected to the Avatars... Maybe they were even more active back then, instead of just sleeping?

I know! Summoner only buffs in the expansion's zones! We'll have 50% off perpetuation cost, increased melee accuracy/damage for Avatars, and Zero Custom armor upgrades!

Yes, ARMOR UPGRADES for Carbuncle! Spiked collar and shoulder pads! Ifrit! Living Flame Cape! Titan! Smaller and brighter underwear! Garuda! Cloth!

[emeraldpearl]

well I think the real question we should all be asking ourselves is: Can the PS2 handle it? ;)

where the hell did that come from?? O.o prehaps reading the thread will make you reconsider your next post.... -.-

im thinking that this may be a good time to add pheonix, a new avatar that can only be used in the past and not the present. thus allowing extra buffs and healing abilities for the new expansion areas.

[Akashimo]

Hmm... It was called "The Crystal War", and those Crystals are connected to the Avatars... Maybe they were even more active back then, instead of just sleeping?

I know! Summoner only buffs in the expansion's zones! We'll have 50% off perpetuation cost, increased melee accuracy/damage for Avatars, and Zero Custom armor upgrades!

Yes, ARMOR UPGRADES for Carbuncle! Spiked collar and shoulder pads! Ifrit! Living Flame Cape! Titan! Smaller and brighter underwear! Garuda! Cloth!
And Shiva in even more revealing bondage straps!


Crystal War I believe was more of a term for people born of the 5 Crystals fighting against the beast-men. A war for existence. That or people harnessing crystal/magicite power to gain an advantage. Such as the Shadow Lord making the pact through the magicite which could have been linked to Odin's shattered protocrystal.

[Malacite]

Maybe we'll luck out and go back in time before Phoenix lost her power?

The only thing is she's apparently from the Far East... :(

[Eiyoko]

The avatars have not changed over time - except perhaps Fenrir and Phoenix, of course - so neither should our pacts. A summoner holds proof of a pact - even if they go back in time, it should still be there unless they, too, were affected by the warp.

Which I doubt.

[Taskmage]

"We sleep in a time that is neither an instant nor an eternity."

I don't think the avatars percieve time as a flow like we do.

[Malacite]

Not the celestials anyway. They're immortal, the terrestrials are not (they're simply god-like beasts who can still die)

[IfritnoItazura]

Who cares? It's a great excuse to update their looks. =b

[Taskmage]

There are 5 terrestrial avatars, right? 3 we already have, one they've stated will never be summonable, and one is essentially ruled out for spoilerous reasons. I'll just take it as a given for the sake of arguement that Odin or Alexander will not be summonable. But I believe SE has stated that there will be new summons. Do you think maybe that means another class of summonable in addition to spirits and avatars? Something in between perhaps like incarna?

[Akashimo]

incarna? Explain what that means please?

[Taskmage]

Uhh, hmm. I thought I could just link a wikipedia article or something but it seems that term isn't in common use ...

What I was thinking of was something between a mindless spirit and a god, but a sentient representative of an element closer to our level of existence, like a faerie or the elementals from the Seiken series. Undine for water, Sylph for wind, etc.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

you mean like the spirits in the Mana series?

EDIT: D'oh, you just said that, you just used the Japanese name of the series <.<

[Yellow Mage]

Sounds like 'em.

(Lol "Efreet." )

[Taskmage]

Was it efreet in japanese? In english it was Salmando, and I never finished Seiken 3.

[Yellow Mage]

Ooh, my bad, I was thinking of the Tales series. But aren't both series made by the same company, unless I'm mistaken?

What further confused me to belive it was the Tales series was the use of "Undine" and "Sylph." Both spirits are available in both games, and as the spirits of Water and Wind (respectively), at that!

But, Efreet was the Fire Spirit in Tales, and, I can't help but laugh how much it sounds like Final Fantasy's Ifrit.

[Malacite]

SD3 was the best one ^^ (I've beaten both. 3 had 3 endings though, depending on which main character you chose since each ending was shared by 2 people)

But, Efreet was the Fire Spirit in Tales, and, I can't help but laugh how much it sounds like Final Fantasy's Ifrit.


Where do you think Ifrit came from? >_ > (Not tales but I mean the actual Efreet myth. Like everything in the series, it's a twist on existing mythology/other references)

[Taskmage]

No, they're not made by the same company, but they're based on the same mythology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ondine_%28mythology%29http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylph
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ifrit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnome

[emeraldpearl]

maybe pheonix will become a summonable avatar? i know that her essence was merged in CoP but with the new "travel back to the past" prehaps you can face her at full form. also the "wings" of the "goddess"? to me it sounds like they are talking about pheonix, but what do i know ^^

[forster]

where the hell did that come from?? O.o prehaps reading the thread will make you reconsider your next post.... -.-

The question came from a 1up interview with the S-E staff members, apparently no new faces / hairstyles / races have been added for players to use because the PS2 just cant handle them. FFXI is unfortunately being held back by its initial PS2 release, so if new avatars etc are added, then its a perfectly valid question as to whether the PS2 will be able to 'handle' them.

I cant locate the interview at the minute as Im at work unfortunately.

Ontopic Im levelling SMN pretty hardcore right now, Im all for new avatars - perhaps different forms of the same avatars back in time? Dunno, Im looking forward to it tho.

[Pteryx]

also the "wings" of the "goddess"? to me it sounds like they are talking about pheonix, but what do i know ^^

The NA name of the expansion is actually officially stated to be a metaphorical reference to the Crystal War army, aka the Alliance of Altana. The JP name is Divine Soldiers of Altana; presumably they couldn't use that name here because here it would get the Christians up in arms against our MMO for promoting a "pagan god" and probably offend several other people along the way. :P

That being said, I have to agree that going back in time would neatly sidestep the problems with Phoenix as a summon. -- Pteryx