Ranger/Ninja

[Nico Silius]

This combination sounds really good. Equip two guns and lay waste to all that lays before you.

Sure, your gil will be frighteningly low... but a good ranger with two guns sounds like they could do the most damage in the game, bar none.


Also, a few small questions... if you use a summon stone, can you keep the creature at the end of battle (if it survives) and can you use healing spells on your captured creature you summoned?

[Destructor121]

i am not completely sure on this but are guns single handed? i thought only swords could be used with double wield.... because i do know that to wield two swords they have to one right handed and one left handed

[Nico Silius]

Heh, I'm not totally sure myself. ^_^

I assumed there would be some one-handed pistol items... it seems like there would be, but that isn't proof that there is.

As for only swords and sword-like weapons (knives, ect.) I've heard that you can attack with fists and the like that normally hit twice would hit three times if you subbed ninja, and I've also heard that blunt items would still strike twice (canes).


I just know enough to think that this is possible... but not enought to KNOW that it's possible.

[Destructor121]

yeah... i know that duel guns would most definately be sweet.....by thw way have you seen any new pics with ninjas in them... i know the expansions out now but not many people have seen them. i figured a decent amount of people would be a ninja

[Awntawn]

Guns are a ranged weapon, you only have one slot for those.

[Sindinista]

But hey, you can still wield the double short swords/knives/axes. :cool: Plus the AGI upgrade, which I'm asuming Ninjas get, right?

[Nico Silius]

Yeah... but just imagine how cool it would be to duel-wield pistols, or double pump a shotgun (I have no idea if these exist... but still).

I was just hoping. I always think guns are cool in RPG's (despite the fact I never used Mustado (Spelling?) in FFT...)

[IleDeusMorpheus]

The REAL value of RNG/NIN is for all the Legolas wannabes out there. RNG plus dual wield for long knives (daggers) = sound familiar? ... next we're gonna see a PLD/WAR named 'Aragorn' ... :sweat:

[Nameless]

you mean Xxaragon121xX :spin:

But to be on topic
yeah duel wield pistols would be awesome, but then ranger would becom dragoon.
IMO it's cool enough a ranger can have a gun look at maxim's journal he has picture of three rangers holding guns and they look really cool.

[Shuda Marcos]

im planning on just having sets of throwing daggers and such so I can keep my stealth agility and still begin able to attack

[meffy]

guns > bow ~

but bow is cheaper I rather use that and it still outdamages most jobs.

[Tokitoki]

guns are only better than bow past 22 when you get to start using 'Bullet's

At lv 1 you can only use 'Bronze Bullet's that only have 1 DMG

Guns have a much longer delay and the ammo doesnt add ranged acc and atk

Bows have shorter delay, cost less, add ranged atk and acc

The best thing though is that the 'Cannon Shell's at 70 or so that have like 80 DMG :P




Oh and as a RNG/NIN you would dual wield 2 archer/hawkers knives for the added ranged acc

[Wannaberanger]

The REAL value of RNG/NIN is for all the Legolas wannabes out there. RNG plus dual wield for long knives (daggers) = sound familiar? ... next we're gonna see a PLD/WAR named 'Aragorn' ...
--------------------------------------------

i hate ppl who uses name from good books and movies; they just make it look worse by naming themselves this...

[poweryoga]

what about Ssjgoku and xxgokuxx and...

anyways, guns >>>>>>>>>> bows.

Silver bullets have 81(!) damage on the ammo itself. Slap on a hellfire and you'll be doing 120~150 damage on ITs easy. I am not rich enough for that and my marksman is not high enough yet either so i'll refrain from using bullets until I get my e-bow....


and silvers are 10k a stack... :(

[lvsocom]

Originally posted by IleDeusMorpheus
The REAL value of RNG/NIN is for all the Legolas wannabes out there. RNG plus dual wield for long knives (daggers) = sound familiar? ... next we're gonna see a PLD/WAR named 'Aragorn' ... :sweat:

No. The real value is the extra +10 ranged accuracy you get from a second archers knife, and the ability to use utsusemi Ichi and Ni. Ninja also has the highest agility bonus (better then Thf), so that means you have just that much better of a chance of hitting. Which really helps when you shoot between 7-15 arrows/shots on a single monster ranging in price of 3gil per arrow (wooden) to 20gil per (scorpion).

I'm a female elvaan RNG/NIN, think what you want... But this layout is one of the best dmg dealing job/sub/race combo's you can get. Stop thinking any elvaan with a bow is trying to be legolass. My character (tahb) would kick his pansy ass. :P

[poweryoga]

ninja = 2x archer knives and utsusemi....

can't think of any other use besides that.... i personally sub warrior but i'm mithra :spin: :spin:

[lvsocom]

Originally posted by poweryoga
ninja = 2x archer knives and utsusemi....

can't think of any other use besides that.... i personally sub warrior but i'm mithra :spin: :spin:

Heh, thats the trade off between mithra and elvaan.. Mithra hit alot already, so they can do without the extra AGI from ninja and still have enough agi to get along.. Elvaan need that extra agi, and the extra 10 RA is very useful for lvling.. I'm going to try ninja and warrior (berserk adds about 50-80dmg on an IT @ lvl43 for me) in a BCNM40 out though.. If warrior still hits well, then I'll probably use it for BCNM, since it does give me that 1 def bonus...

Personally, etheir race works AWESOME for ranger. I can't really think of truley bad race for ranger anyways... Hume would just mean you'd wear a mix of AGI and STR items.. Hume could even be better, since you'd start with about a medium level of agi and str compared to other races, and put on items that bring both stats up evenly..

PS: Just thinking out loud.. But is there any hume rng's on here? :]

[greysenn]

Yes, there are a few humes.

Berserk + good gear = dead stuff quick. I've been kinda tempted to get ninja sub just for the versatility, but with a good tank I just can't pass up the added damage that the warrior subjob adds.

As for missing though.. I honestly can't say that I miss enough to need the extra hawkers knife for accuracy. Maybe it'll change later, but for now I'm sticking as is.

[Deodorant]

Originally posted by Nico Silius
As for only swords and sword-like weapons (knives, ect.) I've heard that you can attack with fists and the like that normally hit twice would hit three times if you subbed ninja, and I've also heard that blunt items would still strike twice (canes).
False, False, False. Where the hell did you come up with this anyway?

[lvsocom]

Originally posted by greysenn
Yes, there are a few humes.

Berserk + good gear = dead stuff quick. I've been kinda tempted to get ninja sub just for the versatility, but with a good tank I just can't pass up the added damage that the warrior subjob adds.

As for missing though.. I honestly can't say that I miss enough to need the extra hawkers knife for accuracy. Maybe it'll change later, but for now I'm sticking as is.

Very cool.. Elvaan rng's don't have a huge problem hitting, its just less consistant dmg from barrage. One thing I'd like to mention is my ninja isn't fully lvl'd.. My rng is 43 and my ninja is 13, while my war is 30. So, when I sub war my AGI is very close to what it is with nin subbed, but ninja does give me that extra +10 RA.

Anyways, to my point... When I sub WAR I take the chance that my barrage will hit one less shot, given that I generally miss one of out 5 shots with my war subbed, where as I only miss one out of about 9-10 shots with ninja.. On an high evasion mob of course.. Must be nice to be a race with good agi, but I still have alot more str then most rng's.. Just sucks to fire an arrow worth 20+ gil and not even hit the mob. :X

[imac2much]

AGI is severely overrated.

Hear me out... you should know already that you can get over 30-40 +RNG ACC from equipment right? So how does 2-4 extra AGI from different subjobs possibly make a difference? It doesn't. The only reason NIN is good is for dual archer knives (or the aquarius axe) for the RNG ACC bonus and also utsusemi for the occasional pulling of hate (with bad PLDs)... not for the AGI bonus.

At high levels, I have had the luck of partying with several different RNGs. I can tell you up front that my best times were with RNG/WAR. 'Zerk adds 2-300 more points of damage on sidewinders, and with good equipment, you won't miss much. If you have a good BRD in your PT, /NIN's usefulness is almost out the window... your RNG shouldn't miss with Hunter's Prelude.

IMO, RNG work best with THF, at least until 65 when everyone hungers for lvl 3 renkeis. Sidewinder -> Dancing Edge is just great for several reasons. First, obviously the damage is incredible, especially if both RNG and THF are using good equipment, meat mithka, and 'zerk. Second, Sidewinder does so much damage that it garners a large amount of hate from the monster, making it turn from the PLD most of the time. A good PLD will be able to get the hate back almost immediately, but if you have a THF, he can just fuidama+dancing onto the tank.

IMO /NIN is a pointless subjob if you have good equipment and you have a good BRD and PLD in your PT. Of course, this isn't always the case, especially in random PTs... /SAM just isn't that useful either, since more TP doesn't make Sidewinder stronger... it only makes it more accurate. And you won't really want to use sidewinder outside of skillchains generally: even with /WAR, you should be gaining TP at an equal rate as the THF, so meditate and Store TP are generally useless.

Just my two cents, but I've just found /WAR subjobs to be better at high levels.

[greysenn]

Ivsocom,
The thing is though, with berserk, I can miss a shot with barrage, and still do the same amount of damage I would do if I hit all 4 without it.

I usually try and alternate though, barrage one, berserk the next etc.

I always figured elvaan acc problems were overrated, considering the number of elf rangers on this forum. Most don't complain about hitting stuff. (In fact I kinda wish I went galka, just because the look cool in ranger AF.)

Have you had a chance to group with similarly equipped rangers your level of different races? I'm curious as to what the hit differences equal out to.

As for ninjas... I can definetly see ninja subjob being awesome in situations where you don't have a thf, or a paladin though. Blink is exceedingly handy. (Or it least it appears that way to me for everyone who uses it. Heheh)

[Kenki]

I just found out that there are only 2 reasons to sub ninja for ranger:

#1: Utsusemi: Ichi/Ni, copy image or some people call it Kage Bushin no Jutsu.... whatever it is a defensive skill that can save you and your party in many cases (ie. Run, Pull, BCNM....)

#2: Holding 2 swords, Axes or knives is just too cool! When you have 2 Viking Axes and use them (at capped axe skill) you will see that you are a very cool looking Ranger @_@

The duel Archer knives are good but as your level get higher and higher they start to lose their value, the pose still look cool ^^.

I really wish that ranger can use 2 guns at the same time. Imagine what would people say when they see you carry 2 guns around as main weapon (just like monk's H2H).

I think that will be a long time from now (if it can happen...) since we still pull our bows and arrows out from nowhere (!). Why they never want to make us look cool just like the Ranger in White armor (I.M. armor on hands/legs/feet and that white doublet) carrying a bow on her back).

[FeralisCallidus]

inja also has the highest agility bonus (better then Thf), so that means you have just that much better of a chance of hitting.

At level 55, RNG/WAR and RNG/NIN have the same exact AGI values. WAR just has 2 higher STR =)

and in my experience, with the ideal PT, warrior is a significantly better subjob.

With a PLD tank, a DRK fellow damage dealer, a BRD RDM and WHM... you will be able to do like 20% more damage than RNG/NIN (since missing REALLY_ISNT_A_PROBLEM_AGAINST_THE_RIGHT_MOBS.

[poweryoga]

sausage!!! you're still here!! :D :D :D

but i can tell you guys the difference between having berserk on and off during sidewinders...

without zerk = 650-700 damage

with zerk = 800-900 damage.

thats me without an E-bow or demon arrows. I personally perfer bards in my party because they make my barrages a lot more accurate, as well as valor minuet which i *think* increases ranged damage. (can't confirm it though, haven't partied with a brd recently).

Unless i'm in a lvl 65 party (i'm 62) which are killing stuff thats more out of my league, i have no problems hitting stuff consistently.

[FeralisCallidus]

Thought i'd toss in something else...

/SAM just isn't that useful either, since more TP doesn't make Sidewinder stronger... it only makes it more accurate. And you won't really want to use sidewinder outside of skillchains generally: even with /WAR, you should be gaining TP at an equal rate as the THF, so meditate and Store TP are generally useless.

If you really are gaining TP at the same rate as a THF, there's a problem.

Sidewinder generally needs 175+ TP to be accurate...
(and at level 55, I was PTing with a THF and getting TP significantly faster).
Samurai sub will just enhance this.

[imac2much]

Originally posted by FeralisCallidus
Sidewinder generally needs 175+ TP to be accurate...
(and at level 55, I was PTing with a THF and getting TP significantly faster).
Samurai sub will just enhance this.

That's very strange. I'm not a RNG obviously, but I've had the good fortune of PT'ing with several RNG's. They gain TP just as fast as RNG/WAR as the THF/WAR. I am not too fond of THF/NIN (who may gain TP a bit faster) since their Fui Dancing does 200-300 less damage than a THF/WAR with zerk. Same with RNG/WAR... does 200-300 more damage with zerked SW than /SAM or /NIN.

With BRD and Hunter's Prelude, you should gain TP just as fast as the THF generally (especially with barrage). He usually did the skillchain at 125-150% TP and almost never missed (good equipment I guess, but Prelude really helps). Maybe we were just lucky... but you just got Sidewinder right? Perhaps you should test a bit more with Hunter's Prelude and check that out. If you already tried that, then I dunno, maybe our RNG's were just lucky and you are unlucky o_o

[qweezy]

Rng/War does a good deal more damage, but they need a good pt to work in or they'll die alot. Rng/Nin is much more flexible, they can work in any pt but damage isn't great.

[Nodachi]

I've heard that many "good" rangers tend to go rng/war until able to dual equip archer knives. Then take rng/nin to levels around 50ish then tend to swap back to war for optimal damage and more abilities.

[FeralisCallidus]

With BRD and Hunter's Prelude, you should gain TP just as fast as the THF generally (especially with barrage). He usually did the skillchain at 125-150% TP and almost never missed (good equipment I guess, but Prelude really helps). Maybe we were just lucky... but you just got Sidewinder right? Perhaps you should test a bit more with Hunter's Prelude and check that out. If you already tried that, then I dunno, maybe our RNG's were just lucky and you are unlucky o_o

Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough~

What happened was that I was gaining TP quite a bit faster than the THF.

Also, it is a rule of thumb for rangers (I know various lv75 Japanese Rangers) to wait for at least 150TP before blasting off sidewinder. I generally won't fire it off at 100, but when I need to, I do.

For example, I was fighting IT crabs in Kuftal at 55 (excellent xp until 56). We had an add, but our original crab was down to half health. I told everyone to switch over to the other crab, the Summoner slammed Earthen Ward/Aerial Armor on us, and I let the crab have it. Since i was the only one fighting it... when I just got 100% TP, I fired off sidewinder. It landed, I slapped on shadowbind, backed up, barrage [100% accurate], 2-3 normal arrows, then sidewinder again. That = one ded crab.

However, I was taking a huge risk in firing off sidewinders at 100% TP, even with a bard. But, then again, these mobs were the 'ideal' for my level. If I tried this against boyahda crabs i'd have my ass handed to me on a silver platter. (I'm a whiff machine against them at 55, i'm going to wait til 56 to go there~ even with a BRD)

[imac2much]

I did misunderstand you, so that was my fault. But I don't even know why we're arguing now, since we're *agreeing with eachother*. :p

My point:
Even without SAM sub, you will gain TP faster than the THF or whatever. As another rule of thumb, most RNG do not just blindly spam sidewinder... they wait until the other participant in renkei is ready (Zerked SW -> Zerked Fui Dancing/Viper is great). Since you are gaining TP *faster* than the THF like we agreed, even without SAM sub, you should have 125-150% TP by the time the THF has 100% anyway. Then you usually have to wait a few seconds for SA+TA to get ready, so you should definitely have 150% by then.

Basically, even if the RNG isn't consciously thinking "I need to wait til 150% TP before I use SW", he will reach that number even without SAM sub. That's why I consider SAM sub useless... what, so you'll have 200% TP at time of renkei (and do considerably less damage)? Or to meditate 60% TP every 3 minutes... why? It's not like you should fire off random Sidewinders... =\

[FeralisCallidus]

Basically, even if the RNG isn't consciously thinking "I need to wait til 150% TP before I use SW", he will reach that number even without SAM sub. That's why I consider SAM sub useless... what, so you'll have 200% TP at time of renkei (and do considerably less damage)? Or to meditate 60% TP every 3 minutes... why? It's not like you should fire off random Sidewinders... =\

With a damn good PLD, RNG/SAM is better than RNG/WAR and here's why:

Every 5 minutes (or six, depending how you care to time the meditates) you will be able to insert an extra sidewinder after an initial sidewinder chain. Saved for a chain 5, this could be the difference between getting and losing 100+xp~

Also, i've heard that DRKs get PT insanely fast post 60 (Because of the nature of guillotine being 4xhit). I ~imagine~ that Samurai sub will help the Ranger gain TP fast enough to keep up his 150TP:100TP ratio of RNGTP:DRKTP.

Also, if a PT with a PLD has a godly THF (i.e. THF/WAR [trip/double attack] with insane gear that gets TP about as fast as ranger...), and is fighting ~ideal~ mobs, samurai sub will allow the Ranger and Thief to renkei almost twice per battle (pure speculation at this point).

[imac2much]

After 65, DRK/THF is generally preferred over DRK/WAR due to the new damage of their lvl 225 WS (changed in a patch a few months ago). These are now insanely powerful, plus since they are only 2 or 1 hit, they are augmented by fuidama a LOT even with nerfed fuidama of THF sub. I've never PT'ed with RNG post 65, but I would *assume* that you would use Arching Arrow -> Fui Spinning Slash at that point. Arching arrow isn't inherently inaccurate like SW, and extra TP only increase crit chance. Yes, AA is weaker than SW, but the damage from the level 3 skillchain bonus alone should outdamage SW (1k-1.5k+ damage with a strong fui spinning slash or cross reaper).

I think experience is more important than theories. I have never partied with a RNG/SAM, so my opinions on them are just theories, so everyone please take them with a grain of salt. It is just how I believe they rank up there, but if they ARE better, I may definitely be wrong. If you have actually used /SAM in this method, and you've outdamaged other /WAR or yourself as /WAR, then that is very interesting. Let us know if it keeps up at high levels when lots of game mechanics totally change (due to level 3 skillchains and such).

However, experience wise, /WAR is much better than /NIN at my level... and that's really all I was trying to say in the first place.

[FeralisCallidus]

If the RNG was using Arching Arrow instead, then that would require him to save 50~ less TP than normal.

Therefor, by this scenario... if you have a good PLD:

lv65~ [ where Arching Arrow -> Cross Reaper + fui is popular ]

Lets assume this is chain 5 (And meditate just became available for the third time):

[Pull] RA >> Mob
[TP 15 (13+storeTP2)]
>-Back at camp, normal PT hate control crap and debuffs happen-<
[Berserk should be on since the beginning of chain 4/end of chain 3]
[Sharpshot]
[Hunter's Prelude]
[Mages ballad II (so useful, I know, but the tank is a PLD, the other attacker is a DRK. And I really don't need anything other than Prelude... so =P]
[Barrage]
RA >> Mob
[TP 90 (13+2/hit for 5 hits)]
--> Assuming two dagger strikes landed in there...
Sidewinder/Blast Arrow >> Mob (If sharpshot and prelude are still active, i'd chance it with Sidewinder.)
[TP 15 (WS)]
Meditate >> me
[TP 75]
RA >> Mob
RA >> Mob
[TP 105]
(((( Depending how fast the DRK in the PT gains TP, I would either fire off another sidewinder/blast arrow or wait for him to catch up at this point. Most likely, though, the DRK isn't very far along (since he's been casting his spells)...so... ))))

Sidewinder/Blast Arrow >> Mob
RA >>
RA >>
RA >>
Normal Course of Battle >>
[Mob should be hugging the RNG, who has Earthen Ward and Aerial Armor on]
--> [ Cross Reaper (PLDfui) >> Mob ]
Arching Arrow >> Mob
--> [ Light Damage]

~One Dead Mob~

[lvsocom]

Originally posted by qweezy
Rng/War does a good deal more damage, but they need a good pt to work in or they'll die alot. Rng/Nin is much more flexible, they can work in any pt but damage isn't great.

This man has it right on, imo. I'm lvl44rng/13nin and occasionally I sub the 30 war I have, right now.. Unfortunately, there is almost no bards on when I goto lvl, so I'm stuck using Nin. Judging fromt eh experience of you 55+rng's I'll definetely give /WAR another try around then. Right now, barrage is my best dmg attack, so keeping it as consistant as possible (from /NIN) is a major reason I use it. Sidewinder and Arching Arrow will probably change that.

Another thing is I use ninja to show the stupid ppl out there that thing 'elvaan rng's can't hit anything', that they are wrong. I usually miss 1/7 shots on flies lvling in CN right now, and the mithra rng I had in a pt recently hit just about the same (rng/nin as well on her). Difference being I was hitting for another 6-7dmg per shot. Not big, but with the hit ratio's the same it was kinda cool.

Greysenn;
I just did a bcnm40 with a VERY experienced group last night (one of the guys does 2-3 a day with various other pt's) and utsusemi saved my ass bigtime. We had, Elvaan rng/nin (me), hume rng/war, taru whm/sum, hume brd/whm, galka pld/war, taru blm/rdm. I couldnt see how often the hume was hitting since I filter alot of stuff in bcnm (missed pt attacks to name one), but I could see his dmg.. I was doing about 6-15dmg more on the madra's until he zerked and he was doing about 10-20 more then me. Just wasn't pretty when the black madra landed a crit on him w/ zerk on. :X My bow crits were fairly good tho, landing 165's about once a mob. I saw a few 170 crits (I use #'s over the head to show dmg) which I'll take a guess and say where the other rng's from zerk. Basically, it was even. I hit for a consistant 130 on the white mandra's where as every 2 out of 5 minutes during the fight he was landing 110dmg hits.

[FeralisCallidus]

Iv~

At higher levels, you'll notice that Zerk helps a LOT more than at lower levels.

vs. Flying monster~

Callidus's ranged attack hits BlahBlahBlah for 160 points of damage (pulling numbers out of my ass. If not 160, then higher)

Callidus uses Berserk

Callidus's ranged attack hits BlahBlahBlah for 195+ points of damage

Mmm. Damage.

Zerk lasts 3 minutes, too.