Two RDMs in one party...

[Aeni]

... not a very good idea. Take it from me, it was horrible.

1. Person does not speak japanese and apparently not english either (Because I asked, on more than one occassion, about coordinating our refresh and hastes)

2. Because there's 3 mages (1 smn was with us too) and both of us RDM were subbing WHM (I was invited first and was not made aware about a 2nd RDM until I got to the Mire) there were either overhealing or none at all; overbuffing or none at all; just a general mess.

3. And a 3rd issue ... we'd have been better off with a 3rd WAR/NIN (3 were seeking at the time) ... not sure what the JP leader was thinking. I'm assuming he thought it was funny.

After my 3rd death, I got fed up, homepoint rezz and just disbanded. Wasted a whole 2 hours of my afternoon and gaining only 5K of exp (Ate a lot of R1s)

I'm just in a horrible mood atm...

[Shota]

Awww, sry for the bad afternoon. I've been in PTs with 2 RDM many times, some are bad experiences, but a few have been amazing if they're working together!

Hopefully tomorrow will be a much better day for ya!! :thumbsup:

[Brayden]

Sorry to hear that. I dont think the overall idea is bad, but if people have problems communicating (or are dumb) then I can see where each role for each rdm would be confusing, leading to confusion and time wasting.

[Icemage]

One of the RDMs (either you or the other guy) needed to go /BLM and convert into a nuke battery while the other focused on main healing/hastes.

I've done 2xRDM in a non-75 party before and it's doable, but you really have to split the roles effectively. Language barrier probably hurt, however.


Icemage

[fallenintoshadows]

I like having two rdms in a pt, especially if I'm one of them and you can make it work really well. But if you couldn't communicate and split the jobs then it probably would of been annoying which is a shame, 2 x rdms = <3

[IfritnoItazura]

As a RDM, I tend to find two RDMs in party to be boring--when working well together. ._. It's just aggravating when not working well.

I like two support role jobs in party, but if I'm RDM, I'd be much happier seeing a BRD, COR, or SMN instead of another RDM.

[Icemage]

I like two support role jobs in party, but if I'm RDM, I'd be much happier seeing a BRD, COR, or SMN instead of another RDM.
Anything but another RDM, yes.

Really the only support job that can handle being doubled up in a party effectively is probably Bard. 2xBard + PLD + 3xDD makes for a really crazy merit party. PLD takes the role of main healer while the Bards pull anything and everything in sight.


Icemage

[Mhurron]

It's doable but requires a good deal of communication between the two RDM.

It is not a license for one RDM to do nothing but refresh themselves and melee. I won't bother saying what RDM made this blindingly obvious in one party I was in.

[Balfree]

Being a RDM as my second job has had me on many situations where my party ends up with 2 RDMs for lack of anything else. I've only had good experiences though, usually i like to nominate 2 players for each of us, and we must take care of them, buff and heal accordingly. It has never been a problem... maybe the lack of communication skills by the other person was the real problem there...

[Celeal]

Technically 2 RDM in the same party works. In the past I had formed 3x RDM party twice (it is not a typo, 3x RDM in the same party, once at lvl 35ish, another at lvl 65ish). Before the party begian, I made sure those RDMs split up their work among themselves. And once they fullfill the basic need of the party, I let those RDMs melee/free-nuke. The exp. gain were nice and steady, and the feedback I got from those RDMs were positive.

[WishMaster3K]

It was definitely the language barrier. I had a pt that was 2x RDM WAR MNK at that Nyzul Staging Point.
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9282/img20070817231049zu5.th.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img20070817231049zu5.jpg)

Chain 40, with one of the RDMs pulling. Not me, because I realized I suck at pulling because I care about having a PERFECT refresh cycle too much. But being Taru, I had more base MP anyway, so I was main healing.

Very intense. Definitely made a usage of my Convert Merits.

Point is, the range of where it can work to where it can't can vary from Awesome to Atrocious.

[Draconi]

I've usually had very good experiences with 2 RDM's, and actually love it when there are. There's two scenarios where this has worked well for me:

RDM #1: Main Heal, Erase, Bar-spells, Poisona, etc. (sub /WHM)
RDM #2: Refresh, Haste, Enfeebles, Elemental Debuffs (Sub /BLM)

or

when there is another main healer:
RDM#1: Refresh, Haste, Backup Heal (sub /WHM)
RDM #2: Enfeebles, Nukes, Elemental Debuffs (sub BLM)

Either way, communication is key.

[massaranger]

Dont matter to me as a rdm i can do anything frompulling to dd, melee to /blm mb nuking or healing dont matter to me i even do 5rdm 1 brd Melee burn Red Mage is the jack of all trades for a reason.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Some jobs are just harder to put multiples of into the same party, and expect better results. Throw more RNGs at the same problem? That works. Throw more RDMs at the same problem? Not quite the same thing.

I remember one Quicksand party in the late 40s where the party leader decided to replace a DD who was leaving with a PLD... when we already had a PLD in the pt. The 2nd PLD was equally puzzled at the decision. But he tried to make the best of it by going into DD mode... which meant pulling out his GSword. I doubt he had any other DD gear with him. This was about 3 years ago, when blood tanking was still the "in" thing.

It's sad seeing a melee hitting for 0 dmg with a 2 handed weapon. It really is.

[Draconi]

Some jobs are just harder to put multiples of into the same party, and expect better results. Throw more RNGs at the same problem? That works. Throw more RDMs at the same problem? Not quite the same thing.

I remember one Quicksand party in the late 40s where the party leader decided to replace a DD who was leaving with a PLD... when we already had a PLD in the pt. The 2nd PLD was equally puzzled at the decision. But he tried to make the best of it by going into DD mode... which meant pulling out his GSword. I doubt he had any other DD gear with him. This was about 3 years ago, when blood tanking was still the "in" thing.

It's sad seeing a melee hitting for 0 dmg with a 2 handed weapon. It really is.

This is an apples & oranges comparison. PLD is a very specialized job...one role... Tanking. RDM is just the opposite. RDM's can main heal, enfeeble, refresh, haste, and do a respectable job of nuking and even DD'ing if skills are capped. Throw in Erase, bar-spells, and party buffs as a side benefit. A RDM can never do all of those things if he's the only RDM, and so something is always omitted due to lower priority. Having 2 PLD's in the same party is asinine, but having 2 RDM's in the same party makes sense depending on the party make-up, level, mobs, etc. Whenever it is necessary to have a fully-enfeebled mob, continually-hasted DD's, continually-refreshed mages, and there are no WHM's to main heal or BLM's to nuke, it is probably a good option to have 2 RDM's.

[Aksannyi]

I saw the thread title and I literally said, "Yuck." I hate double RDM parties. Even when the person speaks the same language as you, the "main healer" RDM will inevitably step on your toes as the "enfeebling" RDM and cast Dia, then Paralyze, and leave you to wonder exactly wtf you were invited for.

I'd rather be the only mage in the party than party with another RDM. And for those of you that know me, that's saying a lot, considering my disdain for main healing on RDM.

[Balfree]

In my opinion, RDM is one of those jobs that can just adapt to many situations and play some different roles, as a RDM at level 67, I have almost allways played the main healer part, but ive been in all the situations the whole lot of the RDM population has, too much to do, or too little to do, depending on the situation. It's the only downside to the job though... I don't complain, I'll do it if it benefits the situation.

[Murphie]

If I and the other RDM can communicate effectively, we can make it work. But if the other RDM can't understand English, or make it work with auto translate, then I'd rather shoot myself in the face than be in that party.

[Balfree]

That's a given for almost every job...

[Fynlar]

I've never had any real problems with 2x RDM parties. It's really not much different from RDM+WHM most of the time.

Communication is key, just gotta set roles properly, just like you should be doing with any WHM you party with.

[Vapors]

... not a very good idea. Take it from me, it was horrible.

1. Person does not speak japanese and apparently not english either (Because I asked, on more than one occassion, about coordinating our refresh and hastes)

2. Because there's 3 mages (1 smn was with us too) and both of us RDM were subbing WHM (I was invited first and was not made aware about a 2nd RDM until I got to the Mire) there were either overhealing or none at all; overbuffing or none at all; just a general mess.

3. And a 3rd issue ... we'd have been better off with a 3rd WAR/NIN (3 were seeking at the time) ... not sure what the JP leader was thinking. I'm assuming he thought it was funny.

After my 3rd death, I got fed up, homepoint rezz and just disbanded. Wasted a whole 2 hours of my afternoon and gaining only 5K of exp (Ate a lot of R1s)

I'm just in a horrible mood atm...

actually 2x rdm is a very good party if you have no brd, 2x rdm and 4x DD jobs, like wars/nins/mnks. and 1 rdm pulls. and other stays with pt. i have done great xp with this setup a few times when there were no brd seeking.

[Vapors]

I saw the thread title and I literally said, "Yuck." I hate double RDM parties. Even when the person speaks the same language as you, the "main healer" RDM will inevitably step on your toes as the "enfeebling" RDM and cast Dia, then Paralyze, and leave you to wonder exactly wtf you were invited for.

I'd rather be the only mage in the party than party with another RDM. And for those of you that know me, that's saying a lot, considering my disdain for main healing on RDM.

ovbiously there is a lack of communication. cause each rdm should have set roles. enfeebling, hasting, refreshing, etc etc, if you are casting the same things as each other then thats just a waste of mp and a job slot. communication is key with any party. and if people are thickheaded and wont do the jobs they are assigned. then they ruin the pt for everyone.

[Murphie]

That's a given for almost every job...Some more than others, but generally, yes.

[Pteryx]

Personally, I like partying with a second RDM. Usually I can communicate well enough with them to divide roles. Usually the first thing I do is to have us agree who's doing which debuffs, usually by having one of us to white debuffs and the other do black debuffs. Then we decide who's refreshing who and who's hasting who. Once it's all agreed upon, it makes for a smooth experience that doesn't get as boring as WHM can be. -- Pteryx

[Aeni]

My take on this is ...

... like WishMaster, I'm a perfectionist. If something is off, I don't like it. It aggravates me. Like Aksannyi pointed out, it became annoying after a while when the 2nd RDM was merely "copying" every action I performed, separated by roughly 8 seconds.

Aeni: Haste NIN/WAR
Aeni: Refreshes Aeni
Aeni: Paralyze Jnun
Rdm2: Haste NIN/WAR
Aeni: Slow Jnun
Rdm2: Refreshes Rdm2
Aeni: Haste WAR/NIN1
Rdm2: Paralyze Jnun

Aeni:RDM2 >> OK, not sure if you got my message the first time, but we really need to coordinate things.

Aeni: Refresh SMN/WHM
Rdm2: Slow Jnun
Aeni: Blind Jnun
Rdm2: Haste WAR/NIN1

SMN/WHM >> kore-wa nandesu ... chotto warui ne? wwww
WAR/NIN1 >> aa ... mane wwwww
WAR/NIN2 >> {Silena} {Please} can i get silena?
SMN/WHM >> urusai no kimi wwwww
WAR/NIN2 >> wwww
RDM2 >> OK
Aeni:RDM2 >> {Hello} Seems like you can understand english. Did you get my previous message?

....

And on and on for over an hour. Both JP players (WAR/NIN1 and SMN/WHM) were just incredibly amused by this. Also by the players (EU/NA) that were always demanding things, not looking at what they were doing, where they were, etc. Sure, I wasn't perfect, I did slip up on a couple of Refresh cycles - by about 8 seconds - but the SMN/WHM was always bowing after one. I guess most NA/EU RDM players they party up with don't even throw a Refresh out anymore...


Anyway ... I am a perfectionist and thus get really territorial when a 2nd RDM is in the party. It almost breaks my stride and rythym, especially since I've been in many, many situations being the only one or second of two mages in a party (4 or 5 melee usually)

[WishMaster3K]

Yeah when coordination like that needs to happen, things get messy.

That's why I don't like to split roles, because good RDMs are VERY territorial, like things done OUR way, and will notice when the other RDM slips.

Thankfully, I found my equal in that RDM who was pulling like it was going out of style. Also, we had our own two people to haste, I took charge of all the main curing, and there were no enfeebles because those Colibris mimic. Most outside work I did was spam -na and Erase on him to skill up my Healing (he'd cast something like Blind or Dia on a Colibri when he was pulling, because they'd mimic sleep onto him when they woke up, lol..)

But if it's something I HATE, it's when the other RDM takes me being there as an excuse to melee. I've done my experimentation with RDM Meleeing, but the tests I've done have shown numbers that aren't anywhere near where I want them to be before I break out my sword in exp. (I can't expect to contribute to damage in a beneficial way unless my ACC is in the 90th Percentiles.)

And unless you have insane merits and above Average gear, get your behind back in the rear, right next to me.

/endrant

[Aksannyi]

Totally agree on the meleeing thing. Only time I've really ever meleed on RDM lately was against Greaters, and we had a WHM in the party. Only thing I needed to cast was Refresh and Haste, and that gets boring very quickly.

So I Enspelled it up and whacked away. It was fun, but I won't lie. Sword skill needs some work and I kind of sucked a little, but no one seemed to notice/mind too much.

Normally not my cup of tea, but sometimes in a good party (that changed areas halfway through due to crowdedness), it's fun.

[nazlfrag]

One of my favourite parties ever was sharing rdm duties. We were /whm and /blm so we fell into our roles with little discussion needed. I was in my late fifties and it's the only time I've partied in Xarcabard, also the only time I've had a bst puller, and the first time I'd been in a two rdm party. I mainly enfeebed and nuked while he mainly buffed and healed. It was the first party where I could nuke freely on SC and not worry about MP.

Since that first time though I've had 2 rdm parties that were annoyingly frustrating and close to disaster, it's definitely not my preferred second support.

[sykoticjestr]

i dont know what its like at the higher (im only lvl 24 atm =/) but at the lower levels having two rdm in a party was awesome.i was in a party the other day and it went very well.

here was the party in quifim
nin/war- we all know his job
drk/rdm- i thought this was gonna be bad but it turned out it was really nice. didnt have to worry bout keeping up enfeeble spells
brd/whm- thre guesses as to what he did lol
rdm/blm- he threw some nukes around but mainly attacked
rdm/whm- me. i was the backup healer/buffer/-na user

lookin at the party at first made me wonder a litlle bit. we started on crabs and pugils and took them down amazingly fast. we thought what the hell lets try a giant. we pulled the first one and found out that they go down really easy. that went on for awhile. then night came. we took some extra precautions like resting a bit more in between battles and using sneak. then came the bad pull (or so we thought) of two wights. the tank kept one occupied while i healed him. everybody else fought the other one and took him down surprisingly fast for only 2 1/2 fighters (sorry bard but you didnt hit that hard but your songs where really helpful ^_^) then they came to the second mob. whm had 1/2 mp somehow (go tarus and thier high mp pool) and i used the last of my mp to rebuff and launch a last banish into the wight and then i rested just in case. finally came the part where the wight went down and we all sighed and rejoiced in the fact that nobody died.

so you see a party can benefit from two rdm. like i said before i dont know how it is in the higher level parties but this is just my experience in this matter. im not saying to go lookin for a party with two rdm, just dont moan when u get into a party with 2 of em. ive found anymore then 2 and it becomes amazingly annoying (espically when they are all /whm x/),

guess im done babbling. hope this helps someone in some way or another.

later all

[Aeni]

Thanks for sharing your experience, but, like you said, there is a difference from the low levels and the high levels.

When I was at your level as a RDM, I did have 2 sometimes 3 RDM parties. It was awesome, because you'd coordinate things better at this stage (Many new players, people willing to ask questions, et cetera)

When you get in at the mid to high level, things change. People who think they know all there is to know are usually the ones that know the least. Then there are those that absolutely refuse to communicate with others because it somehow lessens their reputation or because it's "uncool." Then we have NA players who are tired of JP players thumbing their nose at them when forming parties, JP players who get tired of NA nubs raining on their parade and EU players that seem to think everyone is out to get them (or the Big Man is putting down the Little Guy)

Where was I? Oh, yes. Please enjoy your time at those teen levels. As you get towards the mid level, while you will be constantly fascinated with newer areas to explore and people to meet, you will most likely start to experience some of the negative things that partying tends to bring out. And then get even more jaded as time goes by and as the levels start to increase.

I hope your experience is a lot more positive with respect to exp parties than I have experienced in the past 5 years...

[WishMaster3K]

You'll be ok Aeni, honest. Just hopefully no one in the party is retarded.