This is what makes Cor special Endgame!

[Kairieslove]

Corsair: Much more like a Bard than a ranger. They have aura like buffs that have potency based on the number rolled when the buff is used. The buff numbers work almost like blackjack. You try to get as high a number as possible without breaking 11. You can double up if you roll low. So you could roll a 2, double up and roll a 5 for a combine total of 7. Each roll also has a lucky value and unlucky value, that ignore the high number rule. Corsairs can also reset other players abilities, and use elemental cards with their guns to put mobs to sleep, dispel buffs or enhance debuffs currently on the enemy. For instance if the monster has Slow II on them and a COR uses earth shot, Slow II's effect and duration are enhanced. End game, Corsair has much the roll of a bard, buffing part members, keeping player's Mana pools up and helping to enhance debuffs with shots. They use their ranged abilities to pull and in early parties to shoot but end game won't really be doing ranged damage.Now i agree with the most part for that, but what he forgot to mention is cor sucks at pulling really it does, the delay on a gun is much more annoying and you wont be able to chain for shit if you have a cor pull.

As far as a COR's support aspects, that's covered alright. But to say COR's have guns for pulling in exp is asinine - please do not advise people have their COR's pull in exp, it's a bad enough epidemic as is. Also, if your COR is not contributing some sort of notable damage, be it Joyeuse -> Slug Shot in merits, or maxing out Quick Draw damage for HNMs, and everywhere in between... Frankly you're probably better with a BRD, because you're not utilizing COR a whole lot outside of it's (on average) less impactful buffs. Trust me - full on support, BRD > COR. But if the COR plays COR instead of BRD, it's a whole new ballgame.and i have to say cor even though its only lvl 16 for me has wonderful potential endgame, the only reason most ppl dont like cor is b/c most of them suck, really they do, I've only ever met one cor that didnt and she was the one that gave me some advice on it. In no means should a cor ever sub nin so dont worry about me doing that, endgame i most certainly will sub rng and thats all i'll do, /rng helps cor to bring out its abilities as a job, and to say the least i'm most deff going to be a cor, not a brd i realize cor has buffs and shit like that but cor also can do dmg and has wonderful abilities at its disposal. For example Thunder shot when used after stun can enhance how long stun lasts, wind shot when used after gravity helps gravity stick longer, etc not to mention it has a wonderful dispel and sleep option which btw are very powerful. I think the missunderstanding of cor overall is that not many ppl know how to play the job, a cor is not a rng, and it is not a brd nore is iit a gimp rng, brd so in no means do i want anyone thinking that, a cor is a cor and when played right can make the world of a difference in a party. What i plan to do is not only lvl cor to 75 but i also plan to show future cor's how its done, and how much cor can actually be useful for endgame or merit pts.

Please by any means do not listen to what most ppl have to say about cor being useful. There arnt that many cor's as it is and thats b/c most ppl dont know how to use the job or what it entitles. Thats why cor has gotten such a bad rep for being useful in anyway. I am going to prove to ppl on the Unicorn server that not only is cor useful but its a wonderful job if you play it right, yea sur cor can be like a brd, and yea it can be like a rng but why try and be like other jobs when the potential cor has is just by being a cor :3 beware b/c i am going to set the new fab where everyone wants to go cor endgame b/c they'll realize just how good it really is!!!!

:3 and i posted this mainly for raigon and anyone els that doesn't like cor lol..... i'm going to show u guys the power of cor!!!!!

[Kuro]

The only COR in the world can can pull is probably BBQ.

I pulled in my only COR merit party (well, post 75 party, i've been bussy), It wasn't TOO bad, but you have to be lucky/fast as hell to do it as well as a bard.

You need the mob in the right place, be in the right camp (so no moved and inturrupted shot messages), have lots of QD recast merits, and have a fast gun.

[IfritnoItazura]

...

1. What/where are you quoting from?
2. Lv.16 is a tad early to worry about "endgame".
3. Nothing you quoted is about "endgame".

Glad you're enjoying COR, but the OP is utterly baffling...

[Kairieslove]

...

1. What/where are you quoting from?
2. Lv.16 is a tad early to worry about "endgame".
3. Nothing you quoted is about "endgame".

Glad you're enjoying COR, but the OP is utterly baffling...

1. I am quoting from allah
2. No not really i've had time to study the job and i lvl jobs based on weather i will see fit to use them endgame.
3. Actually if you read up, it mentions quick draw and the effects it has on enfeebling magic, not to mention good for HNMS, also the enfeebling magic it effects most often endgame is Stun and gravity which are highly used against endgame NM's

[Mhurron]

1. I am quoting from allahSo it's garbage then

[Kairieslove]

So it's garbage then

No not really, yea allah is full of n00bs but really the information i've stated above is true, so that being said i don't think where it comes from really matters at all.

[Callisto]

LoL, first note - responding to Allah posts here = does not compute. Maybe some of the kids on the RMT website they run are anti-COR, but most here are not(If they were BBQ has probably changed their minds or locked them in a basement by now).

I generally pull as COR in my parties, but I'm also only level 60 at the moment. It doesn't do much to take away from my DD or buffing abilities, and I generally enjoy being the puller in my parties regardless of which job I am.

Endgame though, that's a whole other beast. You can get QD as low as possible and a Peacemaker, that will level the playing field a bit, but you face the double challenge of not only beating other pullers to mobs(which if you're up against a Sha'ir + Minstrel's Ring BRD or a RDM/DRK, you may as well pack it in before you get started), but also holding a mob asleep while your party fights their current mob. Holding 1 mob is standard fare for merit parties(holding more than 1 is just being a jerk though), and if you get a Light Shot resist(even a partial that only lasts half-time) you're in trouble. Not to mention that you can't go back to attacking the current mob as you'll lose claim on the held one and open yourself up for mpk(if you think people won't mpk you in merit camps you're naive for sure.)

In terms of HNM/Endgame events, COR is great from what I've seen of it in action. It's nice in sky to have a support job that can fight while silenced and not get magic aggro. An extra dispel is nice. QD is marginal at that level b/c of the timer and even if you go max MAB I couldn't see you pressing more than 300 damage out of a QD, but the extra dispel and boost to silence/gravity are nice.

I don't think anyone here really thinks that COR does badly at endgame, and I think BBQ is the only 75 among us(working on it^^; ), so you may have missed the intended audience. :P

[LyonheartLakshmi]

This thread is like walking into the middle of a conversation. You have to fight the urge to ask a whole bunch of questions just to catch up and get some kind of context. It's better to just walk away and start a new conversation elsewhere.

[Icemage]

Speaking as someone at end-game, COR is "ok" but way too flaky in crisis situations.

Endgame tactics at the highest levels require smooth coordination; you have to be able to rely on your alliance members to take stuff down safely. You cannot build any strategy around a Corsair because none of their activated abilities aside from Quick Draw has a guaranteed effect.

That's the reason why Corsairs kind of suck at endgame. It's not that they aren't useful; of course they are. But getting a bust at the wrong time can mean devastation for your whole alliance.

EDIT: I should note in fairness that Corsairs do kick ass in one situation; that being the MP recovery anchor for a Summoner attack party in an alliance for things CoP wyrms (Vrtra, Tiamat, Jormungand). Their MP output, with Healer's Roll + Evoker's Roll, is amazingly good.


Icemage

[Kairieslove]

[System Message: You are not allowed to post URLs as you have not yet contributed sufficiently. Please try again at a later time.]

[Sevv]

cor is good at lvl 1 as weel as lvl 75 for endgame burns 2hr gives a kraken drk 2hr back = win

outside of that just ask bbq or maybe leobardis via alla he is a great cor from my ls. (nice to finally pt with someone.)

[Kairieslove]

No i quoted it simply b/c it wasnt something i had stated, it came from someone els, that is why i didn't say where it came from b/c that doesn't really matter i was using the quotes to reinforce what i was stating nothing more.

and quite frankly everyone here seems to be acting just like the ppl on allah always being negative about everything, no one so far hasn't even said one good thing about this post. Yea sure its not in full detail but if you cant use the information and have nothing to say but negative things than why post here at all? it was meant for ppl who can use it, or have a bit more of an understanding of cor, than for those who cant and would rather flame me for posting it up in the first place.

EDIT: and yea cor does have an awesome array of mp regeneration :D with both healers and evokers roll seems very very nice indeed. Oh and thanks for ur insight about cor, that is true that busting isn't exactly a good thing lol thats why you have to be smart about it, but most cor's arnt.......

[Mhurron]

no one so far hasn't even said one good thing about this post.
It was nicely formatted.

[Sevv]

Quoting works of others without the proper credit, will cause people to ask questions like it is. Coming from alla isn't a problem just put i heard this on alla and wondering what you all had to think. Declaring almost why cor is good endgame wise w/o any exp will also no matter where you post get you some negative feed back. Unlike alla alot of us read the posts regardless of job forums.

When i first saw the op I was looking for a page back button to see where it was quoted from. I hope you understood what I was trying to say, here. Try cleaning it up a bit like:

I saw these posted on alla and wanted to share:

(quote 1)

(Your tiny blurb)

(quote 2)

(your main point)

finish up asking if people have exp with this or what they have seen, trust me you will be more than welcomed.

and here is your link
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=17;mid=1187223480147714746;num=14;p age=1

[IfritnoItazura]

and quite frankly everyone here seems to be acting just like the ppl on allah always being negative about everything, no one so far hasn't even said one good thing about this post. Yea sure its not in full detail but if you cant use the information and have nothing to say but negative things than why post here at all?
It was befuddling, coming out of blues like that without context, especially with a title which didn't match the content.

Some people are cheerleaders, leading others on with a positive voice. Others are critics--I'm one--we point out stupid things in hopes no one else would repeat them (too often).

Both kinds of people can contribute positively; neither is better than the other. Mindlessly bashing the critics is just as bad as bashing the cheerleaders.

it was meant for ppl who can use it, or have a bit more of an understanding of cor

We have a stickied thread on general COR guide (a mighty good one, I might add):
- A Gambler's Life - Corsair Guide (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/corsair/65531-gamblers-life-corsair-guide.html)
If you would like to contribute by guiding newbies, you can add to that thread's conversation, or answer newbies' questions as they come up in the forum.

If you have specific insights to Phantom Roll, I would suggest you go over How Dice Rolling works (Phantom Roll FAQ) (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/corsair/54979-how-dice-rolling-works.html) and Phantom Roll: Knowing the Odds (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/corsair/55032-phantom-roll-knowing-odds-long-math.html) and see what you can add to the knowledge. (Both are stickies, so are easy to find.)

Last, if you would like to contribute to Quick Draw knowledge, the thread (not stickied) is: Figuring out what makes Quick Draw tick (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/corsair/65463-figuring-out-what-makes-quick-draw-tick.html).

* * *

I'm always glad to see new posters eager to contribute to knowledge and understanding of any job in the game. Peace.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

LOL@Alla-centric CORs, well, Alla-centric anything, really. I read that stuff the other day there, wasn't worth a comment.

Speaking as someone at end-game, COR is "ok" but way too flaky in crisis situations.

Endgame tactics at the highest levels require smooth coordination; you have to be able to rely on your alliance members to take stuff down safely. You cannot build any strategy around a Corsair because none of their activated abilities aside from Quick Draw has a guaranteed effect.

Endgame tactics historically fail to include most expansion jobs outside of NIN. Sorry, but its the truth. SAM, DRG, COR, BLU and PUP are hardly considered or discussed in endgame tactics, its always the jobs that preceded them.

Its always centered on PLD, SMN, WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, NIN and RNG. Meanwhile MNK sits outside the alliance like a reject pumping up for chi-blast and the rest of the melee scramble for a piece of the action between bragging about thier merit PTs.

The original jobs got there first and the strategies are based on or built around those specific jobs. They won't try anything outside of what they've decided already works. Funny thing is, jobs like COR and BLU totally fit into thier strategies.

And endgame forums like Blue Gartyr don't even acknowledge COR, I've dug for info all over and the best place to get news and information on what CORs can do is actully Killing Ifrit. I loathe to admit it, but KI is where much of the testing and information comes from and probably has the most well-rounded COR community out there. I do my part to be vocal about the job elsewhere and I know I'm not the only one who pulls like i do, other CORs have done it.

COR can potentially outdo or match what MNK does at endgame - whoring out magical damage. MNK can potentially crank out about 1k Chi Blast in 3 minutes. There are CORs out there now doing almost 400 Wind Shots on Kirin every 50 seconds. That along with the buffs.

That's the reason why Corsairs kind of suck at endgame. It's not that they aren't useful; of course they are. But getting a bust at the wrong time can mean devastation for your whole alliance.

Welcome to COR pre-Group 2 update. Snake Eye and Fold take much care of these issues rather well and if that weren't enough, COR gets a buff duration BRDs can only dream of.

What's more is that if you get the right jobs match up with COR, they don't have to take the same level of risk were you to build an alliance otherwise.

EDIT: I should note in fairness that Corsairs do kick ass in one situation; that being the MP recovery anchor for a Summoner attack party in an alliance for things CoP wyrms (Vrtra, Tiamat, Jormungand). Their MP output, with Healer's Roll + Evoker's Roll, is amazingly good.

If you have a COR and BRD in your alliance, COR should own a mage PT hands-down. Speaking as someone who plays both roles, if your LS has a COR, its an absolute waste to stick BRD in a mage/MP PT. There is nothing more annoying than using BRD as manabucket, I refuse to put my BRD in that position and let people know that if that's what they intend to do with my BRD that I'm logging out my damn BRD and logging into my COR.

BRD's strength over COR is not its reliability, but its melee buffs. COR comes packed with mage buffs that mages can really take advantage of and BRD does the same for melee. For a COR, its not even a question of rolling the best values most of the time in a mage PT, but stacking COR's buffs on top of the +hMP, MAB, MAC or Refresh gear they already have.

It definately pays to know your best buff values and aim for them, but when you have job compatibility on your side and fewer buffs to roll, COR's reliability shoots way up and if they bust at all, the PT in your alliance should only lose that buff for a short period of time.

If a bust is devastating to that alliance, your alliance had other problems to start with, no alliance should rely on the performance of one member, they should be prepared for anything.

The more and more I come into contact with mana and pet based PTs, the more these PTs tell me the prefer a COR. So COR's strengths are steadily becoming known and as players continue to experiment, more information will get out there.

My RNG and COR see fair amounts of action at endgame, in fact, I think the only time my RNG is required is bigger things like Kirin or an HNM, but that's based more on the fact of what jobs my LS has than BRD vs. COR. In most instances, they prefer my COR because of the versatility it has in role.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

... and quite frankly everyone here seems to be acting just like the ppl on allah always being negative about everything, no one so far hasn't even said one good thing about this post.
I really don't have anything good to about the post's content, because I have no idea what's going on with the post. But hey, I'll give you a "thanks" if it makes you feel better.

It was nicely formatted.
It gave me the opportunity to increase my post count. That's always appreciated.

[Callisto]

BRD's strength over COR is not its reliability, but its melee buffs. COR comes packed with mage buffs that mages can really take advantage of and BRD does the same for melee. For a COR, its not even a question of rolling the best values most of the time in a mage PT, but stacking COR's buffs on top of the +hMP, MAB, MAC or Refresh gear they already have.

It definately pays to know your best buff values and aim for them, but when you have job compatibility on your side and fewer buffs to roll, COR's reliability shoots way up and if they bust at all, the PT in your alliance should only lose that buff for a short period of time.


While I agree with most of this, *especially* about how annoying it is to have a BRD as nothing but a dedicated refresher, in terms of endgame there are other things that need to be taken into account.

A COR has better buffs for mages, that is a fact, 100%. However, compared to a BRD with a stringed instrument, a COR also has an extremely small buff range. Not a big issue in an xp party, but take a fight like Kirin or another large endgame mob, where most strategies center around kiting the mob around a large area, or something hectic like Dynamis. Getting 5 BLMs to stay in one place is damn near impossible, and if you miss one with a buff they're SoL on it for at least 2-3 minutes if you don't have Fold. And I've dealt with endgame BLMs enough to know that it's inevitable, at least 1-2 of them will wander off and miss buffs no matter how good they are normally, or how often you remind them not too. It's like some weird lemming instinct they have to run away from Refresh, I can't explain it, but it always happens.

And here I almost went into a total derail to talk QD, I'm actually going to start another thread for it. ^^;

[wrongfeifong]

I didn't read any reply beside OP, since i am usually on another mindset to these people. But i don't agree with Corsair Not a pulling class myself.

Anyone with range could pull, that is true. It isn't hard to PULL then QUICKDRAW (there is NO LOS for quickdraw). You could pull like a brd as a corsair, the problem is quickdraw's resistence seem base on level and not a particular stats (unlike brd's chr) (not sure).

Corsair usually the Best puller even /rng because you could quickdraw. But i would not recommand it myself since keeping buff alone is hard and dealing DPS is another story with high delay. Unless you use Hexa-family guns, pulling + dps isn't hard, if you didn't notice, i believe ranger shoot slower then corsair w/ hexagun.

And seriously, /nin isn't for corsair, unless 1. You are a cheapskate who build TP by melee. 2. You have ridicious amount of Raccu in gear, If you /nin as an excuse to pull, i feel sorry for you, as you don't know quickdraw pull (200 dmg), don't tell me you saving QD for beginning of the fight, because you aren't suppose to deal that amount of dmg right in the fight. /RNG is the best way to goes for corsair before endgame (Just watch your aggros because /rng will pull aggro)

[Omni]

Just to point something out. Smn is an RoZ job. Sam is used pretty often at end game due to the fact that they dont need to TP like other jobs to get stuff done.

BLU, COR and PUP surely dont see hnm action really. well 1, blu tend to get resisted often. pup is just well... pup. and cor, not enough of them around usually since someone with a 75COR might be more useful as another job they have.

btw, peacemaker makes for a nice merit pulling weapon.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

You can argue SMN was a teaser to RoZ, but that's it. Its an FFXI job, look at the quest itself and the zones it is confined to if you need more convincing.

That aside, as more CORs do penetrate endgame I Think how BRDs are treated will improve. The #1 thing I hated about BRD at endgame was being forced to be the manabitch when I had all these melee buffs to do more good with. BRD does not improve mage performance in any real tangible way beyond MP and threnodies and threnodies get resisted a lot, their calling card of Elegy does, too.

Stop looking at COR's randomness and start looking at the bonuses you get for pairing jobs with them, you'll eventually come to observer they'll bring the best out of your BLMs and SMNs specifically, but are great for the mage section in general.

They also have the versatility BRDs just doesn't have. BRD cannot viably drop a full support role at endgame and play a DD one. Not at all. COR isn't the strongest DD out there, but even in full support, they have more potential to output better damage via Quick Draw than BRD or even MNK does.

Put COR + SMN in a BLM PT and you can free up BRD and even RDM to do some real good. Put COR + BST/DRG/PUP in a SMN PT and that's great too.

Rampage has critical modifier, pair THF+COR with the WARs. Two Handers need help on TP gain SAM+COR. Accuracy issues? RNG+COR. Need more attack? DRK+COR.

Its all about breaking down some outdated thinking and strategy. If we have an extra COR on hand, that means one COR doesn't have to be stuck with the mages and mix it up with the melee or tank PTs to do some other good.

I'll admit there's not as much a COR can do for a tank PT situation, but give me a SAM and I can give them more TP fodder for Chivalry when that is needed or I could try to reset Shikikoyo.

That's another thing - Random Deal.

After Loaded Deck was added to merits, Random Deal got a whole lot better. People really need to look at COR's unique abilty to reset job abilities. If you have two job abilities used and the COR has meritted Loaded Deck once, one of those abilities will be reset and that can be manipulated in all kinds of ways.

Ever done four Barrages back to back? It might be lucky when it happens, but its a very powerful kind of luck when it does. Imagine it happening to your RNG. Barrage, Random Deal, Barrage, Wild Card, Barrage, Random Deal, Barrage.

Then there's those ability chests when you do Limbus @.@

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Now i agree with the most part for that, but what he forgot to mention is cor sucks at pulling really it does, the delay on a gun is much more annoying and you wont be able to chain for shit if you have a cor pull.

I just caught this and perhaps it was because I skimmed over this post. Granted it one of those attention-whoring KI/Alla cross-posts, but I'm not going to let the "CORs suck at pulling" statement stand.

Pulling is a PLAYER SKILL., its not a job skill.

That's right, just because your job is THF or BRD does not make you Puller+1. I've had BRDs that couldn't pull well enough to make for Chain #5 and that's a merit princess job that has it so easy they can pull for much higher.

The potentials lie within a job, but pulling is something you learn as a player, potentials can be wasted easily.

Now, before Spider-Dan jumps in to say it, as he's said it on other forums, I'll just reiterate the point for him:

You're applying low-level thinking to a high level context. This is the reverse of what usually happens in FFXI. Usually people take high level strategies and force it onto a lower level PT that can't make it work.

In this case, you're making low level excuses when high level tools are available and contradict your claim.

Behold:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/images/8/86/72_-_Peacemaker.jpg

270 Delay gun, on par with most Crossbows and chances are very low that a COR will ever be pulling against a THF with Ziska's or Velocity Bow. Lowest delay crossbow in the game belongs exclusively to RNG and they're never going to touch those in EXP because the damage is to low.

So, saying our gun delay sucks and therefore we cannot pull isn't true. Peacemaker is made for the people who can pull like hell on wheels. The catch is that when CORs pull, particularly as you would at merit level, you pretty much dedicate yourself to pulling and buffing only, so the lack of DMG on the gun really isn't at issue.

When I pull on COR, I pretty much pull like I would on BRD. Some people are quick to point out that Light Shot has a 50-60 second recast and that I can't spam Light Shot like a BRD does Lullaby. To which my reply is Utsusemi. If I really have to, I can blink tank a mob on the side with no problem and its not hard to get enough haste gear to make that practical.

Now at lower levels, that high delay is still there and the delay argument is somewhat viable, but that all depends on how camped an area is and how much competition you have. If there's not much or no competition, 480 or 600 delay isn't going to be much of an issue.

And mob speed is also less of an issue at lower levels, I can outrun most mobs with an /RNG sub if I wanted. So I could juggle buffing, pulling and DD at lower levels. Its just that at high level, DDs are so powerful that if the COR is pulling, they can bow out of DD entirely and just buff/pull.

Let's not forget that Quick Draw is instantanious, too. It doesn't get much faster than instant. If a Rival PT is giving you problems, pull with Dark Shot. Pulling with other QDs is going to lead to a hate spike due to the damage. Dark Shot will do none and if its a beastmen, its coming to the PT debuffed.

COR can pull and they can do it well. I was a BRD and a RNG at 75 before I was 75 COR and while I don't love pulling, I won't let anyone tell me CORs can't pull. There's a difference between a COR who hasn't learned to pull and the COR that has.

Pulling is a player skill. CORs can pull just as well as any other job that makes the effort, our advantage lies in Quick Draw's Light Shot, just as it does for BRDs with lullaby. That's what puts COR and BRD ahead of the pulling pack. But without the skill and instinct to pull, all goes to waste regardless of a job's tools.

Light Shot is one of COR's biggest advantages. It ignores shadows, its the most accurate and potent light-based sleep and it enhances the effects of Dia.

[Icemage]

LOL@Alla-centric CORs, well, Alla-centric anything, really. I read that stuff the other day there, wasn't worth a comment.
Endgame tactics historically fail to include most expansion jobs outside of NIN. Sorry, but its the truth. SAM, DRG, COR, BLU and PUP are hardly considered or discussed in endgame tactics, its always the jobs that preceded them.

Its always centered on PLD, SMN, WHM, BLM, RDM, BRD, NIN and RNG. Meanwhile MNK sits outside the alliance like a reject pumping up for chi-blast and the rest of the melee scramble for a piece of the action between bragging about thier merit PTs.
I don't think it's the fact that they're expansion jobs, per se, though you're right in that a lot of strategies were built on the core foundation jobs. Still, the strategies do change slowly over time. Look at where SMN are now; they're vital to a lot of HNMLS. SAM gets used a lot at end-game, as does BLU these days, since both can self-skillchain to set up magic bursts without worrying about coordination.

DRG and PUP suffer from horrible design. Even with recent improvements, both jobs still lack any sort of viable identity and endgame, and they get snubbed accordingly.

I think a lot of people tried to shoehorn COR into the same boots as BRD when the first COR75s started showing up, and found the results unspectacular, to say the least. As I mentioned previously here (and I think you agree), COR does a much better job at maintaining a mage-centric party than Bards, be it for manaburn or especially a SMN party, but outside of that it's not much of a comparison.

Personally I think Fold should have been a baseline ability for Corsairs rather than Group 2. It really is just that useful, and I can't imagine any Corsair not investing at least one level in it no matter how careful they are about avoiding busts.

Even so, I still think Corsair's randomness in most of the abilities like Random Deal (Loaded Deck notwithstanding) and Wild Card still leaves some uneasiness for most endgamers. You don't want to go into a BCNM or Salvage or whatever with a strategy that only works 66% of the time if you can avoid it at all, and that's really what I was referring to.

I like Corsair a lot and think it's a great job. It's just a shame that the most powerful effects like Wild Card are so unreliable that no one dares to try bank on success with them.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I think a lot of people tried to shoehorn COR into the same boots as BRD when the first COR75s started showing up, and found the results unspectacular, to say the least. As I mentioned previously here (and I think you agree), COR does a much better job at maintaining a mage-centric party than Bards, be it for manaburn or especially a SMN party, but outside of that it's not much of a comparison.

A lot of people downplayed the power of Healer's Roll from the very beginning, considering Refresh to be greater than +hMP, but its always been central to my buff cycles where a SMN or WHM was concerned. I went through BLM, WHM, RDM well before I ever touched COR and loved the hell out of Seer's set when it was added to the game, so I think Healer's was a brilliant addition, especially considering mages have come to prefer cookies over pies.

I would say COR's sphere of dominance is the mage buffs, but I don't think the melee buffs are vastly weaker than BRDs, its just that more often COR gets faced with a lack of compatible jobs to go with the best buffs. Monk's Roll sucks. Gallant's Roll is intriguing, but you actually have to have lower defenses than a PLD for the damage reflection to really kick in big.

Magus Roll is situationally good like Carols are in that way. Drachen Roll actually isn't bad, its just how often do you get a DRG and a SMN to PT together? SMNs seldom, if ever, use a magical Blood Pact and Wyvern breath damage isn't really amazing. Beast Roll and Puppet Roll are actually really nice, but neither job sees much EXP action and its questionable of favoring pets for buffs is the best way to go .

Now in a SMN PT, Beast Roll is pretty nice, as is Puppet Roll. Beautiful, in fact. I'd like to do a few more pet based PTs than I have because its been a rare opportunity.

Our melee buffs I think are pretty strong when paired with the right jobs. Chaos, Ninja and Hunter's roll are really the only spots in which BRD outpaces us in buffs because they're not stuck with randomness or bust penalties. Well, and BRDs have Haste. But then, with Samurai Roll and Fighter's Roll on COR, I think giving COR a Haste would be rather broken.

Most of CORs buffs are useful while about 90% of what BRD got was vendor trash. Gavotte, Fantasia... lolVerilai.

At any rate, my largest complaint about BRD vs COR is actually a complaint I had long before COR was added to the game.

Bards - even if they neglect to use the proper instruments with the matching song - almost get the full benefit of thier buffs. Singing skill is just as overly forgiving as Healing skill is. If all these crafted instruments were made to give bonuses to songs, those bonuses should matter and there should be a penalty on buffs where the wrong instrument is used with the wrong song.

I hated every BRD that halfassed thier way to 75 on a San'dorian Horn ("for the CHR" huhuhu) and nothing else. The fact that COR is reliant on job presence for buff bonuses makes this even more painfully obvious and wrong that BRDs continue to gimp thier way to 75. Singing skill needs to be rebalanced and the instruments made more relevant.

Plus it would help add some value to the instruments and make them more profitable for crafters to make.

I'm fine with the randomness of the buffs and the busting. COR is Gambler, after all, it comes with the territory, I'd just like that disparity between BRD and COR addressed.


Even so, I still think Corsair's randomness in most of the abilities like Random Deal (Loaded Deck notwithstanding) and Wild Card still leaves some uneasiness for most endgamers. You don't want to go into a BCNM or Salvage or whatever with a strategy that only works 66% of the time if you can avoid it at all, and that's really what I was referring to.

I like Corsair a lot and think it's a great job. It's just a shame that the most powerful effects like Wild Card are so unreliable that no one dares to try bank on success with them.


I've come to accept its the nature of players to look for the easiest, safest ways to do things. I personally like that SE made a job that challenges that approach and can be played with some degree of recklessness because it has to. SE could have given us Joker Doom and we'd never see an invite if they did.

Even with Wild Card not refilling your MP/TP to full or resetting two hour abilities all the time, its still rather powerful, particularly for jobs that deal with lots of Job Abilities. I've done four consecutive Barrages in a minute thanks to Wild Card+Random Deal, amoung other things like resetting Convert, Berzerk or Elemental Seal. That can really turn the tide.

I think SE nerfed Wild Card in Limbus areas, though, I almost always hit 4, 5 or 6 on Wild Card elsewhere, but I've never seen better than 4 in there.

I'm still of the opinion that Wild Card is exploited by the endgame community in areas like sea where the Nomad Moogles of Tavnazian Safehold are just a stone's throw away. Wild Card doesn't scale in power like other two-hours do and that's something that also needs to change, its just as powerful at level 1 as it is at 75 and that shouldn't be.