Can you change drop rate for rare/ex items to 100%

[Dymlos]

Hello SE, is there anyway you could change the drop rate to Rare/EX items from NMs to 100%? I find it not right that camping an NM with a Rare/Ex item doesn't have a 100% drop rate. It's not like we can't sell it on the Auction House or Bazaar.

If you can't change the drop rate to 100% can you at least increase the drop rate so where camping the NM makes it worthwhile? There are some NMs (like Eastern Shadow) that has such a weird spawn rate and with such a poor drop rate for the Vali's Bow, it isn't worth putting the time to camp for an item that might drop.

[Feba]

You know, back in my day, we read the damn stickies BEFORE we made an ass of ourself. My generation really did find far more creative ways to make ourselves look like douches.

[Aeolus]

lol

[Sevv]

You know, back in my day, we read the damn stickies BEFORE we made an ass of ourself. My generation really did find far more creative ways to make ourselves look like douches.


Always the most helpful and supportive, tho he has been around a bit he should know we have stickies so meh.

[Dymlos]

I edited it to make it more pleasant sounding. I'm just saying that it's silly how an item where you can't sell it on auction house or bazaar would not have a high drop rate.

[Taskmage]

This has been discussed before: http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/general-ffxi-discussion/65080-trigger-nms-trading-rare-ex-item.html

I'll just quote myself instead of restating.So from a certain standpoint, I agree with the OP. I think that the rewards for say an NM fight should be proportional to the risk taken and the effort expended by the people fighting. However, as others have pointed out, in an MMO there are other considerations. We're paying from month to month, and as customers we demand enough content to keep us engaged and interested or we'll get bored and stop playing and paying. The developers have to stop that from happening to keep the game viable but at the same time they can only produce so much, so they have to find ways to keep us tied up in content until they can release something else. It's just the way the cookie crumbles. There are good ways and bad ways of doing this, and I have to agree that the singular challenge with a miniscule chance of reward is one of those wrong ways, but making the items 100% drop isn't the way to fix it either. In the grand scope, the reward would be too great for the amount of time spent trying to attain it.

Sometimes I think the developers "get it" and are shifting away from the player-hostile modes of design and sometimes I wonder. BCNMs for example. Most BCNMs drop garbage with a small chance at one or two really great items. People have to throw away tons of seals hoping to get an item that has any value at all, then if it's not the one they needed they have to sell or trade it for the item they actually want. Over time the payoff averages out, but looking back many players are bound to regard all those BCNMs that dropped crap before the good item finally dropped as "wasted time." Meanwhile other players might luck out and get the drop on the first run, thus getting inpropotionately rewarded for their time and effort in comparison. Compare this to the most recent battlefield incarnation, assault. Just for participation in assault you at least get some points towards rank and items, so right there you're already at least acknowledging the value of the player's time. Some assaults do have a good randomly dropping item, but for the most part people do assault for assault points and rank points, which are gradually awarded to the player to save up for their goal items. Players with greater skill will succeed more and get their points faster, but for all players the reward is assured as long as you keep trying and you can actually watch your progress toward the goal. There's no chance of going ofer 50 on the drop while someone else gets it on the first run. Everyone's rewarded proportionally.

On the other hand you've got the lu shang vs ebisu quests. Lu shang is my "right way" example. Daunting requirements, but a determined fisherman can take it as a challenge and measure their progress toward a guaranteed reward. Ebisu, which was introduced later, is more like a lottery. Fish up these rare, legendary fish, then turn them in for like a 1% chance at one of two items you need for the best fishing rod. Some people get it in their first 20 fish where as Jei and Enneisevoli fish for months straight, turning in hundreds of fish before finally getting their reward. One way challenges the player to keep going, the other dares them to quit. Most old NMs are the latter.

Hopefully the Nyzul Isle staging point is SE's fix that offers a player-friendly alternative to that brutal old content. I think that's what we're all hoping for, but it's too early to know for sure how it'll work out.In a nutshell, there are underlying issues that would make it a bad idea for SE to do this. They seem to understand the problem though and are working to minimize it in successive content releases.

[Mhurron]

You know, back in my day, we read the damn stickies BEFORE we made an ass of ourself. My generation really did find far more creative ways to make ourselves look like douches.
Sorry, but no you didn't. No one has ever read FAQ's or stickied posts until someone told them to RTFM.

[Feba]

I do. I actually posted my first post in the right forum because I RTFS!

[Mhurron]

You forget, you asked me a question that was listed in a FAQ.

[Jarre]

Oh great another Feba vs Mhurron bitching session.... and i thought the thread was going to be about drop rates... guys bitch somewhere else you keep spoiling thread after thread... it gets triing having to read through your crap to get to the actually content of the thread in question.

[Sevv]

Oh great another Feba vs Mhurron bitching session.... and i thought the thread was going to be about drop rates... guys bitch somewhere else you keep spoiling thread after thread... it gets triing having to read through your crap to get to the actually content of the thread in question.


Wait wait wait feba is bitching and not at me, gdi! I have failed ; ;. Actually the thread is about why don't they make drop rates on r/e 100%. The thread has come up a few dozen times already, they lose making these items "rare" if everything was 100% ridills for everyone not too mentions abj as well. Some "luck" is needed to make these items still desired. If you change the r/e drop rate every melee and mage would be forced to camp kings for the standard armor.

[Callisto]

Back on topic: I think moving the R/E drop rates to 100% is way too much, but some boost would be nice. I went 1/8 on Ose, 4 of those times having TH2. Ose has a pretty large window, at times I spent a solid 7 hours camping before he popped, only to get no drop, and it was a bit disheartening. My friend went 1/11 on the R/E O. Kote, not counting the 8-10 claims he missed, it took him nearly a full week to get them, that's kind of extreme.

I guess at the same time it does make finally getting the drop a bit sweeter when it comes, giving your tv scree/pc monitor the bird, and warping out proudly.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Oh great another Feba vs Mhurron bitching session.... and i thought the thread was going to be about drop rates... guys bitch somewhere else you keep spoiling thread after thread... it gets triing having to read through your crap to get to the actually content of the thread in question.

You can just blacklist them on you ignore list, the problem is that the forum code doesn't block what people quote in reply to the stupid shit they say, so you'll still see it.

ON TOPIC:

If everything R/E had a 100% drop rate, there would be no point in playing the game and nothing would be rare.

[Taskmage]

Stop the derail please? >.>

[Aeolus]

They boosted the rare/ex drops for subjobs recently, thats enough imo.

[Sevv]

Stop the derail please? >.>

my post wasn't a derail it was serious,


and a boost to the drop rate would be acceptable but 100% would cause issues.

[eticket109]

Every rare/ex drop? No. I'm sorry but if going 1/9 on Lizzy is breaking your spirit then you may just want to quit when you're ahead.

However, greatly increasing the r/e drop rate on 21+ hour NMs (non-HNMs) would be nice. The two prime examples of this are Noble Mold and Stubborn Dredvodd. Stubby can take over 80 hours to pop and Noble Mold can pop like 3 times every couple of weeks and they aren't even guaranteed to drop anything. Then again, changing it would be a bit of a slap in the face to those of us that camped those NMs for days, weeks or months before we got that drop.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

There are certain R/EX NM drops which should be 100%, but aren't. Take Joyeuse, for example. Is it a problem that it's a 100% drop? Probably not, given Charybdis' relatively low spawn rate (it spawns less often than Leaping Lizzy) and relatively high difficulty (it's much harder to successfully take down Charybdis than it is to take down Leaping Lizzy).

Mysticmaker might not be as difficult as Charybdis, but it's still requires a fairly high level player to pull it off. Moldavite Earring probably should be a 100% drop.

For any R/EX drop that *doesn't* have a AH sellable equivalent, I really don't see a reason why the drop rate shouldn't be 100%, even for some of the low level NMs like Carnero.

[Mhurron]

Mysticmaker might not be as difficult as Charybdis, but it's still requires a fairly high level player to pull it off. Moldavite Earring probably should be a 100% drop.
You don't have to be high level to do it. At 67 you stop getting aggro there so a party in the mid 50's could probably handle it fine. Mysticmaker has a pretty much 2h 15min pop timer so camping him is not hard. Compared to Charybdis, even on pop times alone, Mysticmaker is a walk in the park so I don't see why suddenly the Moldavite Earring should be guaranteed.

And in general:
There are some NMs (like Eastern Shadow) that has such a weird spawn rate and with such a poor drop rate for the Vali's Bow, it isn't worth putting the time to camp for an item that might drop.So don't camp it. If it's not worth the effort to you the item isn't worth your time so don't waste your time on it. Is it really so hard to understand? Sometimes you're just going to have to work at things, put your nose to the grindstone and do what it takes. If you're not willing to do that, you don't deserve the reward.

[Malacite]

They shouldn't 100% all drops, certainly not HNMs, but an increased rate on some of them wouldn't hurt either.

Case in point, make Moldavite Earring or Valis' Bow 100% but sure as hell not Ridill.

It wouldn't kill them to improve drop rates on Relic Armor either. Maybe not 100%, but around 40-50% would be nice, especially since not every piece is even all that useful. I'm sure there are plenty of players out there who want it just for the sake of having another cool looking set of AF.


Moldy should be 100% There are still a lot of people camping it and the drop rate is piss poor. Rabbit Charm would be another good candidate too...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Why should Vali's be 100%? If it was, the value of Eurytos bow would be utterly destroyed. its the best RNG bow in the game still, SE clearly wanted it to retain its value and by not changing the drop rates, it keeps value.

[Neomage]

I wish the game would keep record of how many times you killed X NM and even though you can kill it 1 time and get it first drop, ig you go 0/49 your next kill will be 100%.

Take me on Mysticmaker Profblix for example. 0/113

[Mhurron]

I wish the game would keep record of how many times you killed X NM and even though you can kill it 1 time and get it first drop, ig you go 0/49 your next kill will be 100%.
Take me on Mysticmaker Profblix for example. 0/113
See like, damn man, you've earned that earring but that's not a good argument for making the drop 100%.

Some serious advice, never play the lottery.

[Callisto]

It wouldn't kill them to improve drop rates on Relic Armor either. Maybe not 100%, but around 40-50% would be nice, especially since not every piece is even all that useful. I'm sure there are plenty of players out there who want it just for the sake of having another cool looking set of AF.

There is a certain amount of ridiculousness to AF2 drops. My Dynamis linkshell has seen 1 Duelist's Chapeau. Ever. I think they've been running for nearly 2 years now. We routinely do Northlands runs where we nail every time extension, farm as well as we can with minimal wipes/downtimes, and leave with absolutely 0 AF in nearly 3 hours. Our last 3 Xarca runs have yielded a total of 1 AF, our last 5 Glacier have gone 0, 1, 0, 0, 2, 0, we usually have about 25-30 people per run. I understand that the pieces should be challenging to get, but holy crap. I'm currently 4th-5th in line for that hat(despite being pretty much the only RDM main of the top 5 people in line; ; ), and I honestly don't see me ever getting the hat due to it only dropping once a year.

[Sevv]

I wish the game would keep record of how many times you killed X NM and even though you can kill it 1 time and get it first drop, ig you go 0/49 your next kill will be 100%.
Take me on Mysticmaker Profblix for example. 0/113

screw bringing a thf you need Miss Cleo's Magic Chicken bones!

[LyonheartLakshmi]

I wish the game would keep record of how many times you killed X NM and even though you can kill it 1 time and get it first drop, ig you go 0/49 your next kill will be 100%.

Take me on Mysticmaker Profblix for example. 0/113
So, which GM did you insult? Maybe you shouldn't have questioned his sexual orientation :P

[Mazon]

I wish the game would keep record of how many times you killed X NM and even though you can kill it 1 time and get it first drop, ig you go 0/49 your next kill will be 100%.

Take me on Mysticmaker Profblix for example. 0/113

I'll take that figure as an exaggaration (sp). You serioulsy can't be 0/113 on Profblix, can you?

I've gone 7/7 with 5 consecutive kills the first round of camping for ls members and friends (We owned LoO that day), and 2 consecutive kills the 2nd round of camping (mine and my girl's).

Is it really that bad for some?

Granted I have TH2 + Thief's Knife but still ...

You know, maybe I can believe that number, I have gone 0/42 on LL in the past, before I decided my time would be better spent on buying Leaping Boots.

[Malacite]

Main reason for 100% (or at least change it to a god damned force pop) is because of the obscene window for the shadows. Never mind that the PH takes 15 minutes to respawn, and there's only 2 I believe.

Seriously, at the very least more of the "lottery" NMs could be changed into force pops, with the pop items gained either from local mobs or a quest that you can only do say once a day/week and boost the drop rates a bit.

SE has a serious problem balancing effort with reward. Enough of the bull shit luck factor, seriously. It's a hell of a lot more fun and satisfying to at least know that you have a good shot at something rather than praying to lady lucky for even a remote chance of getting what you want for all your (hard?) work.


SE worries too much IMO about people possibly leaving the game or powerful items flooding the player base by making them very hard to get when really they're only making the problem worse.

[Sevv]

Main reason for 100% (or at least change it to a god damned force pop) is because of the obscene window for the shadows. Never mind that the PH takes 15 minutes to respawn, and there's only 2 I believe.
Seriously, at the very least more of the "lottery" NMs could be changed into force pops, with the pop items gained either from local mobs or a quest that you can only do say once a day/week and boost the drop rates a bit.
SE has a serious problem balancing effort with reward. Enough of the bull shit luck factor, seriously. It's a hell of a lot more fun and satisfying to at least know that you have a good shot at something rather than praying to lady lucky for even a remote chance of getting what you want for all your (hard?) work.
SE worries too much IMO about people possibly leaving the game or powerful items flooding the player base by making them very hard to get when really they're only making the problem worse.

Its the best bow and you can buy an ebow. It shouldn't be easy, If we make the best weapon easy why not sell ridills for 10k in jeuno?

[Raydeus]

...why not sell ridills for 10k in jeuno?

Can you make it so RDM can equip that one? And if you remove the Rare part and leave it as Ex only then I want 2 of those to go please. (^-^)b

[Dymlos]

If they won't increase it to 100%, at least either change some NM spawn times to where it's not fruity and super weird, or make it so drop rate is 40-50%.

[Sevv]

Can you make it so RDM can equip that one? And if you remove the Rare part and leave it as Ex only then I want 2 of those to go please. (^-^)b


well we should probably go the ex only route upgrade damage to 250, make hidden effect of gives dual wield IV put another latent that makes your sword skill 350, should we add a relic ws as well? oh and all jobs can equip.

[Sevv]

If they won't increase it to 100%, at least either change some NM spawn times to where it's not fruity and super weird, or make it so drop rate is 40-50%.

It doesn't need to be fixed it is what keeps it somewhat rare. Its luck the drop rate can be 90% and you can go 0/800. The larger windows are a bit much for some people but it can pop in the first window so really you could spend 5 min doing it.

[Dymlos]

I spent 10 hours camping that thing and no pop. I was like 'ok screw this. *warps*

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Main reason for 100% (or at least change it to a god damned force pop) is because of the obscene window for the shadows. Never mind that the PH takes 15 minutes to respawn, and there's only 2 I believe.

Seriously, at the very least more of the "lottery" NMs could be changed into force pops, with the pop items gained either from local mobs or a quest that you can only do say once a day/week and boost the drop rates a bit.

SE has a serious problem balancing effort with reward. Enough of the bull shit luck factor, seriously. It's a hell of a lot more fun and satisfying to at least know that you have a good shot at something rather than praying to lady lucky for even a remote chance of getting what you want for all your (hard?) work.


SE worries too much IMO about people possibly leaving the game or powerful items flooding the player base by making them very hard to get when really they're only making the problem worse.

You can already force pop an NM at Full or New Moon for another bow that's almost as good. The Selene Bow.

Now you can get E-Bow as an R/E drop as Vali's Bow from Eastern Shadow or obtain the Eurytos Bow via BCNM 60, along with Cross-Counters, I might add.

Really if you can't at least get the Selene Bow, you fail at RNG. Its not a 100% drop, but its is very obtainable.

Vali's Bow was more of an RMT countermeasure than anything else. Eurytos bow was stupid expensive before the change because RMT dominated that NM, camped it 24/7. Now on Titan, its half the value it once went for, which is still a hefty sum of 2.5 million. Be thankful you can get it for free now.

[Sevv]

I spent 10 hours camping that thing and no pop. I was like 'ok screw this. *warps*


20hrs for ebow back when ebow was dropped 1/3

5hrs for vali bow 0/2

[Malacite]

Technically it's not the best bow (Yoichinoyumi is) but it's the best that players can reasonably get. My main gripe is the retarded 24+ hour lottery spawn. Forced spawns are so much better (when the pop item is EX >.>)

[Sevv]

Technically it's not the best bow (Yoichinoyumi is) but it's the best that players can reasonably get. My main gripe is the retarded 24+ hour lottery spawn. Forced spawns are so much better (when the pop item is EX >.>)


If people are complaining about getting a v bow or an e bow the yoichinoyumi doesn't exist for them. 24+ hr nm keeps it even, as well as your not camping those 24 hours the window isn't open.

[Malacite]

40+ hours is ridiculous though. There's no real good reason for that kind of obscene wait. The fact that SE says some people like camping like that just shows how out of touch with the community they are.

Keep the drop late low if they want, but at least change it to a force pop.

[Raydeus]

well we should probably go the ex only route upgrade damage to 250, make hidden effect of gives dual wield IV put another latent that makes your sword skill 350, should we add a relic ws as well? oh and all jobs can equip.

You want to break the game don't you? All jobs is way too much.

So, to compensate make it so DRG, PUP and COR can't equip it. d(^-^)b

[Vyuru]

Well, my thought is either make it a force spawn mob or a quickly spawning NM with a middling to low drop rate, or make it a lengthy respawn NM with a middling to high drop rate.

And by high drop rate I don't think I'd ever exceed say the 60% line, unless it was some 100% drop NM.

I understand they want to keep people playing as long as possible, but the entire NM camping aspect of the game does not appeal to me and many people because of the low chance of getting the drop, assuming we get the mob not counting competition.

Granted, NMs are alot easier now that not all of them are monopolized by RMT like they used to, but even so I really don't care for that aspect of the game anymore, I only help LS members camp NMs now, although I love spawned NMs.

Alot of the game has changed though, there are alot of alternative armors, and alot of the high lvl gear stuff can be worked for in Assault, which has alot of good gear for alot of jobs, or there is AF+1, and just other things in general.

So while I'm really neither for nor against this (especially since I got my assault jerkin! Last NM I ever have to camp yayyyyyyyyyy!!!!!) I think I can kinda see both sides of the issue.

[Malacite]

Vyuru speaks teh truth!

NM camping is by far the worst aspect of the game.

[Sevv]

Vyuru speaks teh truth!
NM camping is by far the worst aspect of the game.


some of us enjoy it, but alot of people's time at nm camps isn't 100% that they are waiting for pops, kings have 1 min of ready to claim 29 min of afk for 3 hours. Depending on the nm you can have 14~15 min of afk time between pops, especially if you have no competition. And you think 40hrs is insane, ive been at Rose gardens camp probably close to 200 hours of my character there (not at my comp) and I am 0/18 now, actual camp time isn't much I usually keep myself busy.

[Feba]

You're forgetting though, this thread was off topic from the moment it started.

Starting an a thread in a forum it's not meant for = off topic = off topic chat

[Aeni]

If a mob can only spawn during a window of every 24 hours and has a chance, but not guaranteed, to spawn ... that is retarded. Especially if the item rewarded is not something game-breaking (or "the best of the best there is")

Think about it ... if every server has 5,000 players ... and even if only 1/5 of those players were so inclined to camp that item, that would be 1,000 players.

Out of the 1,000 players that really want it ... the % that would actually bother to camp plummets greatly ... due to the fact that not everyone has that kind of stupid time on their hands to camp an NM with that kind of spawn behavior.

Usually kids on their school break, people who are unemployed (but not really forced to be employed to get through in life) or physically disabled people who can't conveniently leave their homes will have this kind of time to devote to camping an NM.

But, reading SE's disclaimer of how it is not recommended that people devote large amounts of time to this game ... can you explain to me, then, how you encourage players to not spend large amounts of their life into a game and yet expect them to do so anyway to get a particular item that they might desire for a particular job (Not necessarily usable by all jobs)

[Malacite]

Think about it ... if every server has 5,000 players ... and even if only 1/5 of those players were so inclined to camp that item, that would be 1,000 players.

Out of the 1,000 players that really want it ... the % that would actually bother to camp plummets greatly ... due to the fact that not everyone has that kind of stupid time on their hands to camp an NM with that kind of spawn behavior.

QFT

SE is one large conglomerate oxymoron.

[Neomage]

I'll take that figure as an exaggaration (sp). You serioulsy can't be 0/113 on Profblix, can you?

I've gone 7/7 with 5 consecutive kills the first round of camping for ls members and friends (We owned LoO that day), and 2 consecutive kills the 2nd round of camping (mine and my girl's).

Is it really that bad for some?

Granted I have TH2 + Thief's Knife but still ...

You know, maybe I can believe that number, I have gone 0/42 on LL in the past, before I decided my time would be better spent on buying Leaping Boots.

Yup, 0/113. I have a tally sheet next to my computer.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

But, reading SE's disclaimer of how it is not recommended that people devote large amounts of time to this game ... can you explain to me, then, how you encourage players to not spend large amounts of their life into a game and yet expect them to do so anyway to get a particular item that they might desire for a particular job (Not necessarily usable by all jobs)

NM camping takes a particular mindset and its rare that I'm focused enough to achieve it, but even I can reach that point sometimes. The first thing you do is bring another constructive task with you so you're not just wasting your time standing there.

You come to camp and if its a PH mob, you kill of those first PHs and time the respawn. Let's say you have a 16 respawn mob. Great, that means if you know and monitor the times in between, you have 15 minutes to do other things and 1 minute to prepare for the next spawn. Do math homework, read a book, write a novel, play your PSP or DS, fix a fast meal, anything.

Window spawns are not really much different, just no placeholders usually, but sometimes there still are. If the NM respawns on a fixed timer, your only real concern is competition.

The rest you have to accept that competition and luck is involved. NMs are a gamble sometimes, but when you know how to work them and invest your time wisely on other tasks in the meantime, its not some soul/life-sucking activity.

HNM camping is another matter, fuck that shit, I got better things to do with three hours of my day and camp crap that offers my jobs nothing. HNM camping is all about windows and having lots of warm bodies for claim. You don't need 40+ people to kill an HNM, you just need lots of people to improve chances of claim.

[Karinya]

Why should Vali's be 100%? If it was, the value of Eurytos bow would be utterly destroyed.
You mean like Thief's Knife? Good.

Destroying the value of Thief's Knife was one of the best things SE has done recently (item-related, at least). Sucks to be the guy who bought it the day before the update, but the game as a whole is better off for the change.

I went 1/shitload on Ose (and that doesn't count several multi-hour solo camping sessions where I didn't even get the bastard to pop), but if they made AJ 100% tomorrow I'd cheer.


Despite 100% drop rate, the effort involved in obtaining an Ohat, Uggalepih Pendant, Tatami Shield or Galliard Trousers is nontrivial, to say the least. I think those items are the right model and low drop rates/horrible uncontrollable pop conditions are the wrong model. The item in question being sellable exacerbates, but does not create, the problem; thus introducing the rare/ex equivalents has alleviated the problems but not fixed them.

I wish SE wasn't so damn reluctant to retrofit their old content after they invent better solutions. Many, many old NMs deserve the Ullikummi treatment. Practically everyone except RMT loves what they did to Ulli. So why aren't they doing it more, to all the other NMs everyone complains about? I just don't get their reluctance to do something that is clearly a good idea and would obviously be hugely popular. Are there really that many people who would quit in a huff because their epeen got nerfed when someone else got Ebow/Valis? (If so, why don't they have Yoichinoyumi already if it matters that much to them to be ahead of the Joneses?)

Being a great player is not about what gear you can get, but what you can do with it. Difficult fights, not insane pop conditions, are the true test of playing ability.

P.S. My old static killed Mysticmaker at around 50 IIRC - several times, because more than one of us needed it. But it's rare to find 6 people willing to do the fight together instead of asking a 75 or two to kill him.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Black Coney (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Black_Coney)
BCNM 60 Brothers D'Aurphe (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Brothers_D%27Aurphe)
Eastern Shadow (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Eastern_Shadow)

Take your pick and live with it. Two ways to get Eurytos Bow or the equivelant, one way to get a nice alternative bow.

Eurytos Bow does not need to be easier to get, it already is easier to get. And if that isn't enough, there's an even easier bow to get that's almost as good.

Really, quit complaining.

[Malacite]

Seriously, STFU. It's not even about the bow anymore as much as it is SE's bull crap stance with NMs.

Being a great player is not about what gear you can get, but what you can do with it. Difficult fights, not insane pop conditions, are the true test of playing ability.

Couldn't have put it better myself.



EDIT: Okay, that was rather rude on my part. I'm just fuming atm because some retard dragged me out from my soloing spot on BRD only to have everyone but me wipe after 1 fight.

Leveling BRD on my server has been hell the last few days. I'm only lv 26 and I'm lucky to have gotten that far seeing as everyone I run into has a double digit IQ - _ -

[Mhurron]

waaaa waaaa waaaa i want i want i want but i'm not willing to do what it takes to get it.

[Raydeus]

waaaa waaaa waaaa i want i want i want but I don't have the time it takes to get it.

=P

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Difficult fights are hardly a test of player ability. I know people who can hold it together in hard fights and fail hard in EXP or merit. All the great gear and experience with challenging fights doesn't mean much to others if you can't keep your head in EXP, much less a BCNM situation.

Part of being a good player is also knowing how to prepare your character, its about knowing what's best, what's needed and what is adequate and meeting those goals. If you just want to get cool stuff and then back to the EXP grind ASAP, you've kinda missed the adventurous side of the game.

Just because you pay $12.95 a month to play should not mean you are entitled to anything. You don't get the big, stuffed Scooby Doo doll because you paid a dollar and couldn't hit the milkbottles with a softball at Six Flags. That's basically what an MMORPG is, an online carnival attraction with level-ups. The gamble is part of the deal.

Ok and drama, but that's another matter.

[Malacite]

You honestly believe the rewards are balanced for time/effort spent?

I think not. No one's asking for hand outs here, just fairness. The greater the risk, the greater the reward, not spend a billion hours getting one item (*cough* Relic *cough)

That disclaimer at the POL menu is a joke.

[Dymlos]

Damn, I really didn't expect to jump from R/EXs to another different matter. oO Yesh. Luckily I have my Sbow (alot easier to grab than Vbow) but it would be nice if SE couild at least change the spawn times for Eastern Shadow to make it more reasonable. -_-. Apparently that's too much to ask. :x

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

You honestly believe the rewards are balanced for time/effort spent?

I think not. No one's asking for hand outs here, just fairness. The greater the risk, the greater the reward, not spend a billion hours getting one item (*cough* Relic *cough)

That disclaimer at the POL menu is a joke.

You see, when they call something rare, that means its supposed to be rare. If everyone could get the rare, then nothing would be special about rares and no one would want rares. They would be "normals," not "rares."

As it stands, rares from HNMs basically say "I stood in this zone longer then you did and had 40 people to claim." Where's the challenge in that? And even if the HNM was a real challenge, why should that determine the reward? Should be reward enough to say you beat the damn thing if it was truely hard, because that's all most people are going to walk away with, not a reward.

You don't have, so you complain. You complain because you think the time spent does warrant a reward.

That's not how the real world works, why should a game be any different? Because you pay to play? Should you get #1 High-Score on Pac-Man because you pumped Quarters into the machine and stood there long enough?

There are tons of things in this game where if you invest the time, there's an eventual reward for doing so and there are challenges within them. Limbus, Assault, Crafting, Ranking Up, Completing Quest/Mission storyarchs, Levelling up, etc.

And people deserve those rewards, why should the rest of the game be handed to them?

[Dymlos]

You see, when they call something rare, that means its supposed to be rare. If everyone could get the rare, then nothing would be special about rares and no one would want rares. They would be "normals," not "rares."


That reminds me of the old days of PSOv1 DC where you had nothing but 'common rares' drop every five minutes from mobs.

[Malacite]

You see, when they call something rare, that means its supposed to be rare. If everyone could get the rare, then nothing would be special about rares and no one would want rares. They would be "normals," not "rares."

As it stands, rares from HNMs basically say "I stood in this zone longer then you did and had 40 people to claim." Where's the challenge in that? And even if the HNM was a real challenge, why should that determine the reward? Should be reward enough to say you beat the damn thing if it was truely hard, because that's all most people are going to walk away with, not a reward.

You don't have, so you complain. You complain because you think the time spent does warrant a reward.

That's not how the real world works, why should a game be any different? Because you pay to play? Should you get #1 High-Score on Pac-Man because you pumped Quarters into the machine and stood there long enough?


Bull. Going back to the classic FF's, there was always ample reward for everything you did (Frustrating as some of those sidequests or monsters were, like the Queen of Cards quest for Nemesis Weapon).

Those were epic battles. From what I've heard of sky etc, these HNMs, while tough, are regularly brought down. AV is the closest thing to an epic mob in the game, and has insane rewards if they drop.

I'd like see more mobs along that line (though not quite as insane ^^;) with very good drops (and a decent drop rate) but the challenge should be extremely high, be it the mob itself, the surrounding area, or what have you.

Basically, make a real adventure out of it. You gather the people to do it, set out on some epic quest, and at least a few people get enough out of it to warrant doing it again or for others.


IMO, SE has crossed the line between Rare and obscene.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

That reminds me of the old days of PSOv1 DC where you had nothing but 'common rares' drop every five minutes from mobs.

PSO was a dupe-fest. There were no rares after the first three months. Anyone could have a Lavis Cannon if they knew a duper. That's what killed the game for me.

And Sega never did anything about it.

At least PSO Ep. III didn't have that problem. You could hack the best deck of cards, but you couldn't hack the dice generator, so a skilled player with a basic deck could still toast your ass.

[Sevv]

Wall o'text 2.0

If a mob can only spawn during a window of every 24 hours and has a chance, but not guaranteed, to spawn ... that is retarded. Especially if the item rewarded is not something game-breaking (or "the best of the best there is")

It pops between 16-32 hours. Not 24 and then it doesn't spawn.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Eastern_Shadow


Think about it ... if every server has 5,000 players ... and even if only 1/5 of those players were so inclined to camp that item, that would be 1,000 players.
Out of the 1,000 players that really want it ... the % that would actually bother to camp plummets greatly ... due to the fact that not everyone has that kind of stupid time on their hands to camp an NM with that kind of spawn behavior.
Usually kids on their school break, people who are unemployed (but not really forced to be employed to get through in life) or physically disabled people who can't conveniently leave their homes will have this kind of time to devote to camping an NM.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/images/8/8a/EurytosBow.jpg
The auction house and you can buy it, if you want the r/e version spend the time, this goes for any r/e vs sellable drop.


But, reading SE's disclaimer of how it is not recommended that people devote large amounts of time to this game ... can you explain to me, then, how you encourage players to not spend large amounts of their life into a game and yet expect them to do so anyway to get a particular item that they might desire for a particular job (Not necessarily usable by all jobs)
They don't tell you not to spend large amounts of time in this game they tell you to not forget friends, family, school, work.


NM camping takes a particular mindset and its rare that I'm focused enough to achieve it, but even I can reach that point sometimes. The first thing you do is bring another constructive task with you so you're not just wasting your time standing there.
You come to camp and if its a PH mob, you kill of those first PHs and time the respawn. Let's say you have a 16 respawn mob. Great, that means if you know and monitor the times in between, you have 15 minutes to do other things and 1 minute to prepare for the next spawn. Do math homework, read a book, write a novel, play your PSP or DS, fix a fast meal, anything.
Window spawns are not really much different, just no placeholders usually, but sometimes there still are. If the NM respawns on a fixed timer, your only real concern is competition.

All very good ideas, don't forget clean your room, work out, spend time with family, anything.



HNM camping is another matter, fuck that shit, I got better things to do with three hours of my day and camp crap that offers my jobs nothing. HNM camping is all about windows and having lots of warm bodies for claim. You don't need 40+ people to kill an HNM, you just need lots of people to improve chances of claim.

True but also on the 3 hr thing, this is a window for alot of nms, smirugh which benefits your rng for instance. You have 14 min of time you are active in that 3hrs.


You mean like Thief's Knife? Good.
Destroying the value of Thief's Knife was one of the best things SE has done recently (item-related, at least). Sucks to be the guy who bought it the day before the update, but the game as a whole is better off for the change.
I went 1/shitload on Ose (and that doesn't count several multi-hour solo camping sessions where I didn't even get the bastard to pop), but if they made AJ 100% tomorrow I'd cheer.
Thief knife was never considered the best thf weapon in the game (damage wise), it was a item for people to say my th better then yours! (well by 1% lol)



Despite 100% drop rate, the effort involved in obtaining an Ohat, Uggalepih Pendant, Tatami Shield or Galliard Trousers is nontrivial, to say the least. I think those items are the right model and low drop rates/horrible uncontrollable pop conditions are the wrong model. The item in question being sellable exacerbates, but does not create, the problem; thus introducing the rare/ex equivalents has alleviated the problems but not fixed them.

O hat can be killed with 6-7 people if you are players who have faught it before and have exp -playing with each other.

Uggalepih Pendant is not 100% unless you have a hq, which alot of people don't use. http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Golden-Tongued_Culberry

Tatami Shield is also not 100% unless you have a hq, http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Gration



I wish SE wasn't so damn reluctant to retrofit their old content after they invent better solutions. Many, many old NMs deserve the Ullikummi treatment. Practically everyone except RMT loves what they did to Ulli. So why aren't they doing it more, to all the other NMs everyone complains about? I just don't get their reluctance to do something that is clearly a good idea and would obviously be hugely popular. Are there really that many people who would quit in a huff because their epeen got nerfed when someone else got Ebow/Valis? (If so, why don't they have Yoichinoyumi already if it matters that much to them to be ahead of the Joneses?)

Giving everyone every item in the game with little to no work, makes everything about accomplishment and hard work nothing. This is FFXI a multi player game, you won't have everything in the game like in the single player games, you work hard in those leveling up etc, the difference here is that in the online game you can't gameshark your items you just want.


Being a great player is not about what gear you can get, but what you can do with it. Difficult fights, not insane pop conditions, are the true test of playing ability.

Not to argue here about this, I just wonder what is a difficult fight in your opinion.


P.S. My old static killed Mysticmaker at around 50 IIRC - several times, because more than one of us needed it. But it's rare to find 6 people willing to do the fight together instead of asking a 75 or two to kill him.

And you all still friends right? You camped for each other pulling your static together, granted some people wanted to level up more but you were there for each other, man low drop rates hurt.

waaaa waaaa waaaa i want i want i want but i'm not willing to do what it takes to get it.

Hell This comes from a kid who has very low play time, still telling him to quit his job >.>. He wants a joyeuse, he doesn't complain ofcourse we were mad it didn't pop sunday, but we will be there again sunday working on a joy again till he gets it. Still kind a$$holish the way you posted tho mhurron >.>

You honestly believe the rewards are balanced for time/effort spent?
I think not. No one's asking for hand outs here, just fairness. The greater the risk, the greater the reward, not spend a billion hours getting one item (*cough* Relic *cough)
That disclaimer at the POL menu is a joke.

Malacite, if you go by drop rate they are. The drop rates aren't bad for most items in the game, but they have no "memory" so its not assured to drop unless it is 100%. It comes down to personal luck Malacite, if it had memory and say it was 10%, you could always claim 9/10 days never get drop and the one time you miss it would drop. If you look at it once it would drop, the next 9 claims will not drop. Ya relic isn't hard if you can make gil, level all crafting mules and bamn you can be on last stage, only to find out gungir blows hard core.


Bull. Going back to the classic FF's, there was always ample reward for everything you did (Frustrating as some of those sidequests or monsters were, like the Queen of Cards quest for Nemesis Weapon).
Those were epic battles. From what I've heard of sky etc, these HNMs, while tough, are regularly brought down. AV is the closest thing to an epic mob in the game, and has insane rewards if they drop.

Kings at one time were epic, as well as alot of the mobs considered jokes now. Hell kirin kill was amazing when it first happened, now its so common no one cares, if they hadn't nerfed the way and ban people for wall trapping av, it would be common place by now.


I'd like see more mobs along that line (though not quite as insane ^^;) with very good drops (and a decent drop rate) but the challenge should be extremely high, be it the mob itself, the surrounding area, or what have you.
Basically, make a real adventure out of it. You gather the people to do it, set out on some epic quest, and at least a few people get enough out of it to warrant doing it again or for others.
IMO, SE has crossed the line between Rare and obscene.

This is the only thing with a semi-bitchy surronding area: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Khimaira

Everything is a real adventure for people the first few times, and then it becomes common place. Like in all games you have an epic quest that is like wow O.O but when you play alone you don't have people beating you too it or saying how easy it is. First kill of anything is epic and given alot of respect, kings are still exicting for people on their first kill. Sky for people who just got it fighting their first god as they are so happy they finally killed a god and love it. Anything no matter how epic it is becomes common place in a MMO.

[Mhurron]

You honestly believe the rewards are balanced for time/effort spent?

I think not.
It doesn't matter what you think except to yourself. Reward to work ratio is going to be different for every person.

If it's worth it to you, go out and do it, if not don't. It's that simple.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Bull. Going back to the classic FF's, there was always ample reward for everything you did (Frustrating as some of those sidequests or monsters were, like the Queen of Cards quest for Nemesis Weapon).

Those were epic battles. From what I've heard of sky etc, these HNMs, while tough, are regularly brought down. AV is the closest thing to an epic mob in the game, and has insane rewards if they drop.

I'd like see more mobs along that line (though not quite as insane ^^;) with very good drops (and a decent drop rate) but the challenge should be extremely high, be it the mob itself, the surrounding area, or what have you.

Basically, make a real adventure out of it. You gather the people to do it, set out on some epic quest, and at least a few people get enough out of it to warrant doing it again or for others.


IMO, SE has crossed the line between Rare and obscene.

Should I point out the utterly ridiculous requirements you had to meet to get Excalibur for Steiner in FFIX? Yunaleska in FFX? Yeah, you didn't beat that one without the guide, the internet or a friend's help. The treasure chest trickery in FFVI and FFXII? The fact that to get 100% done and the mascot dressphere in FFX-2, you had to play the game multiple times or follow the guide to the letter the first time through? In FFX, you're forced to endure broke-ass blitzball if you want Wakka's ultimate weapon? The Lunar Ruins in FFIV Advance? Ugh don't get me started on that one.

Where was the challenge vs. reward in all of that? How am I supposed to even know the criteria for those chests in FFVI and FFXII without a guide? That's some bullshit right there, check a chest now and screw yourself out of an ultimate weapon later! Granted I expect that to happen now in other FFs because of FFVI, but that doesn't make it rational design and has nothing to do with challenge or reward.

SE just makes some shit totally random for the sake of stuff being seemingly rare. You either accept thier crazy ways of doing things sometimes or you don't get what you want, ever. As far as the games go, it makes them worth replaying to experiment and see what you missed, but its not exactly what I call normal .

I can cry and cry that Gilgamesh doesn't just drop Genji armor in FFXII, but no, I have to go back and steal it if I really want it. Meaning I have to rewrite my Gambits... AGAIN!

This is madness.

This is Square-Enix.

[Mhurron]

SE just makes some shit totally random for the sake of stuff being seemingly rare.
Sorry, but not quite. SE makes totally random stuff with insane requirements for the sake of those that want to do that.

They do the same in FFXI. You don't *HAVE* to get these items, despite what many uninformed idiots say. However if you *WANT* to and are the type of person that enjoys these types of things, they exist.

[Kirsteena]

Actually, the mob with the most retarded pop conditions, imo, is King Vinegarroon - 21-24 hour spawn, but will only pop if there is double earth weather, maybe single earth weather. No earth weather, it may pop next time there is. Now that's SE!

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Sorry, but not quite. SE makes totally random stuff with insane requirements for the sake of those that want to do that.

They do the same in FFXI. You don't *HAVE* to get these items, despite what many uninformed idiots say. However if you *WANT* to and are the type of person that enjoys these types of things, they exist.

I think the problem is people only want the "best" so they crybitch about it until SE does something just because they did it on a few things in the past.

Ulli's 21-24 hour spawn was ultimately proven to be flawed design because RMT exploited it. Same with Eastern Shadow, more or less. The thing was that they botted and whored themselves on these NMs for sellable drops, one of which led to one of the most desired R/E in the game.

SE removed the sale factor from Ulli's drop, so while the Autumnstones are still sellable, they're now also easier (well, if you consider a senseless farming grind "easier") to obtain. Byakko's Haidate is just as random a drop as ever and he's simply not that challenging any more, so why should that be 100% just because you had the triggers?

ES's flaw was that Eurytos' Bow was sellable as well, but the combination of moving the original Bow to BCNM and replacing the original with an R/E version of the bow both serve to retain some value to the original bow while both remain rather rare. If you want an adequate bow nearly on par with those, you can get one for the price of a few Sandorian Carrots and a few hours of effort. I call that a deal, especially consdiering there are moments Selene Bow outshines V/E-Bow, as rare as those situations may be.

Speed Belt, Peacock Charm, Emperor's Hairpin, Leaping Boots, Strider Boots, Eurytos Bow... all this stuff has a R/E equivelant on NM, the originals have been moved to a BCNM and some of it even has pop NM equivalent or Assault gear comprable that's sometimes better than the original piece. Its hard for me to look at something like Chivalrous Chain and still think Peacock charm is better for a melee, especially with things like Jaridah, Pahluwan, Hauby and other gear out there now, both new and old.

People are just lazy in that they want the best all-in-one piece for no work.

If beastmen or kindred seals are hard to come by for your job, that's understandable, but I don't have much sympathy for it when you're able to level a soloable job that will allow you to get them. I'd love to be COR and RNG all the time, but if I want seals independantly of my Taru's BST, I have to have something soloable on my Mithra as well.

Sometimes you just have to look at the big picture for your character, not just what you want.

[eticket109]

Actually, the mob with the most retarded pop conditions, imo, is King Vinegarroon - 21-24 hour spawn, but will only pop if there is double earth weather, maybe single earth weather. No earth weather, it may pop next time there is. Now that's SE!

I stand by Stubborn Dredvodd and Noble Mold as more screwed up then that. The tough spot with KV in comparison is that he isn't soloable like the others.

[Kirsteena]

True - I've tried for Noble Mold before - and regretted it.

[Malacite]

Actually, the mob with the most retarded pop conditions, imo, is King Vinegarroon - 21-24 hour spawn, but will only pop if there is double earth weather, maybe single earth weather. No earth weather, it may pop next time there is. Now that's SE!


Not FFXI related, but ever try getting a pink tail from the Pink Puff in FFIV? Son of a bitch that was frustrating.


Yeah, SE has made a tonne of ridiculous quests as you pointed out BBQ, but those were all in offline titles with very little replay value. There's no really good reason for that in an MMO other than shits and giggles or for the sake of giving some stupidly hardcore people an unrealistic goal.


To draw a parallel, FFXI = Real World America right now. Founded on the idea that everyone has a shot in life to achieve their dreams, as much or as little as they want. But in reality that isn't the case anymore. The reality is not everyone has a fair shot at some of the better things, either due to their own schedules, RMT, money, what have you. Granted, SE can't really be god and make a perfect world, but they can at least try.

[Omni]

wow, sev.... that wall o' text is pretty impressive. i give it 4 stars.

on topic. i think some of the more interesting spawn conditions should be kept. it gives the mob/game character. how fuxing boring and generic would it be if all mobs spawned in 2 hrs and gave 50-100% drops? every rng would have an v-bow. army of v-bow rngs! all wearing the same equip and not having any sort of distinction and uniqueness. lets all be generic people!

[Sevv]

True - I've tried for Noble Mold before - and regretted it.

Rose Garden in the from the time i started sev to about 6 months ago was packed with people who will kill the ph every 5 hrs out of spite.

wow, sev.... that wall o' text is pretty impressive. i give it 4 stars.
on topic. i think some of the more interesting spawn conditions should be kept. it gives the mob/game character. how fuxing boring and generic would it be if all mobs spawned in 2 hrs and gave 50-100% drops? every rng would have an v-bow. army of v-bow rngs! all wearing the same equip and not having any sort of distinction and uniqueness. lets all be generic people!

Ty and i agree varied times are nice otherwise lets have 1 pop mob who drops everything you could ever want.

[eticket109]

I like the variance in pop conditions, I just think that the uber crazy pop mobs should have better drop rates.

[Sevv]

I like the variance in pop conditions, I just think that the uber crazy pop mobs should have better drop rates.


Again we don't know the true drop rate of any mobs unless s-e tells us. Our drop rates come from what people report, so we don't have a list of ever claim kill and drop. We take a sample size, but again we could have a 90% mob go 0/100 and our rate would be <5% drop rate. Like the original kraken club drop from bcnm was said to be .05% from all the people spamming now its listed at 5%. It sucks to go on a long nm hunt and get no drop, but that is what makes the drop that much better. Ridills don't drop like candy and that is a good reason faf is popular.

[Aeni]

NM camping takes a particular mindset and its rare that I'm focused enough to achieve it, but even I can reach that point sometimes. The first thing you do is bring another constructive task with you so you're not just wasting your time standing there.

... OK, there's something you need to consider.

1. Using FFXI Windower is against ToA/EULA (amirite?)
2. Not everyone has multiple PCs.
3. Not everyone has a TV + PC in the same room.
4. Not everyone can be doing something AND concentrate on competing against 5+ other players.

See how logically unsound your advice is?

We're not talking about any old Tom Tit Tat NMs here either. Let's not kid ourselves.

[Omni]

Then dont camp. Go do bcnm where plenty of these items drop too. Dont have seals? go solo. Dont want to do anything for anything? then tough shit.

If you go into nm camping with the mentality that you are or you might waste your time, then it probably isnt something you should do.

Sev: ya there should be the santa rabbit out in w.ron. kill it and it drops everything you could ever want forever.

[Sevv]

... OK, there's something you need to consider.
1. Using FFXI Windower is against ToA/EULA (amirite?)
2. Not everyone has multiple PCs.
3. Not everyone has a TV + PC in the same room.
4. Not everyone can be doing something AND concentrate on competing against 5+ other players.
See how logically unsound your advice is?
We're not talking about any old Tom Tit Tat NMs here either. Let's not kid ourselves.


Necro'd!!!!

Tom Tit Tat needs love to!

[Aeni]

Go do bcnm where plenty of these items drop too.

Oh really? So I can get abjurations from BCNMs too? Wow that's news to me...

You've heard it hear first, folks. Omni said that BCNMs are the best way to gear up over everything in this game.

[Omni]

Plenty != all.

Good job on the reading comprehension once again.

Some people mentioned e-bow and the 24 hour shadows. As well as a lot of highly sought after pieces are now in bcnm. kclub, hairpin, boots, charm, serket, cc, ebow, etc.

But hey, if you want to whine about not getting any abjs then I guess they should just give them us. Since that would make everyone happy. Everyone can have ebody and dalmatica. Actually better yet, why dont they npc sell them? Let's make rare awesome equip as common as the buburimu grapes.

[Sevv]

Then dont camp. Go do bcnm where plenty of these items drop too. Dont have seals? go solo. Dont want to do anything for anything? then tough shit.
If you go into nm camping with the mentality that you are or you might waste your time, then it probably isnt something you should do.
Sev: ya there should be the santa rabbit out in w.ron. kill it and it drops everything you could ever want forever.

Can we name him fluffy and make him only pop once every 12 min?

Oh really? So I can get abjurations from BCNMs too? Wow that's news to me...
You've heard it hear first, folks. Omni said that BCNMs are the best way to gear up over everything in this game.

If you want to have an attitude:

Abjurations in BCNMs?
YES!!
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Oblation_Abjuration
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Libation_Abjuration

This has been Channel 5, The leader in BCNM news.

Bcnms are a great way to get gear up, you can do bcnms for the piece of gear you want or gil to buy your gear. Sky Abjurations are very easy to get, yes they make take multiple kills and some work but it is easy to do god runs.

Q: But Sevv Sky takes effort?
A: Sky takes a Linkshell commitment, everyone wants gear that is what drives ls to help each other out in sky. People who don't want to commit or work to better the linkshell, should not get the gear.

Q: But Sevv I want King Gear?
A: I also want gear from kings, I don't have the time to commit 100% because of real life. I don't cry over it and want it changed. Getting rid of bots would be a big help but with the windower source code being released the other day, botting will pick up a bit more now. If you can't do 2 min of paying attention and 28 of afk in cycles you really don't want the gear.

Q: Sevv What are you trying to tell me?
A: R/E endgame gear takes effort from a group of people, If everyone leaves after they get that piece of gear like you plan to do, then you will never get it. If you know you can't commit to endgame and don't cry over gear you have my respect.

Good Gear = Effort

[Omni]

yea you can call yours fluffy. ill call my santa rabbit fernando.

[eticket109]

Oh really? So I can get abjurations from BCNMs too? Wow that's news to me...
You've heard it hear first, folks. Omni said that BCNMs are the best way to gear up over everything in this game.

No but you can get Abjurations from Eihnerwhatzit. Its not perfect, but it's doable. Besides, abjurations shouldn't even be part of the discussion. The post was about NMs with a 'single' rare/ex drop like Argus, Lizzy, VE, Taisaijin, Bho'Who Warmonger, Rose Garden, Stubborn Dredvodd or my favorite, Noble Mold.

In most cases, the items are available in multiple locations. Others, such as the Carect Ring, have alternatives and are considered 'luxury' items to a degree.

I spent more then six months to get a Carect Ring. Overall, I went 1/9. I agree that mobs like that with extreme drop conditions should have higher drop rates but who's to say I wasn't just unlucky? SE has made it so that there are some items in the game that are just plain rare. Carect Ring, Speleunker's Hat, Rain Hat and Vilma's Ring are just a few examples. By no means are you required or expected to have any or all of them. SE has always had a knack for rewarding stubborn persistence though. (see: Lightning Dodger)

[Sevv]

hey read my post eticket bcnms do have abjs!

[Omni]

ambrosia is awesome. especially when you pop one while playing a lv. 12 job. you basically become 50% more the character you were for 3 hours!

[Regulat0r]

Honestly, you don't need these rare/ex items from these NMs to be a top notched player. Maybe if you're a perfectionist, but to be a all around good player no.

Leave the NM camping to those who want to do it. Would I like a pair of leaping boots for my thf? Sure would. Am I going to spend 4+ hours of my life staring at my computer screen to have a CHANCE of tagging leaping lizzy for the chance that the boots MIGHT drop? Hell no.

Just think of it this way, thats 4+ hours you're doing something else you enjoy whether it be in or out of the game.

NM campers make me feel even better about myself then I already do. <3