Merits question

[hongman]

Boy I'm on a roll today!

According to Wiki, even if you are not 75, X amount of merits still come into play depending on lvl.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Merit

My question is, how does it prioritise these merits in effect if you have more than your current lvl allows for?

For example:

10-19 only 1 comes into play.

I have 1 dagger merit and 1 MP merit. Which would it choose and how can I (if at all) influence this?

[Urashima]

If you have 1 HP merit, 1 MP merit, 1 dagger merit and 1 sword merit, all would come into effect at level 10.

[hongman]

I just re-read wiki. PER ITEM.

So that means if I had 2 in HP, 2 in MP, at lvl 10-19, 1 HP and 1 MP would be in effect?

[Urashima]

I just re-read wiki. PER ITEM.
So that means if I had 2 in HP, 2 in MP, at lvl 10-19, 1 HP and 1 MP would be in effect?

That's correct, and as soon as you got level 20, they would be boosted to level 2.

[Jethreal]

On an additional note to that, lets say I'm a Brd/Whm lev 18 with 4 merits in MP, since Brd has no native MP does the merit work on the subjob level only ie. 0 in play or does it still kick in with it's +10MP?

[LyonheartLakshmi]

On an additional note to that, lets say I'm a Brd/Whm lev 18 with 4 merits in MP, since Brd has no native MP does the merit work on the subjob level only ie. 0 in play or does it still kick in with it's +10MP?
Since MP is a general merit, and not specific to any job, those 4 MP merits should be boosting how much MP you as a character have before job stats are figured in. I don't have any MP merits yet myself, but I've read about WARs putting 1 merit into MP so that they have a pool of MP to activate Rune Chopper's latent effect without having to wear +MP gear.

[Mhurron]

On an additional note to that, lets say I'm a Brd/Whm lev 18 with 4 merits in MP, since Brd has no native MP does the merit work on the subjob level only ie. 0 in play or does it still kick in with it's +10MP?
I was wondering that myself.

[tuggler]

On an additional note to that, lets say I'm a Brd/Whm lev 18 with 4 merits in MP, since Brd has no native MP does the merit work on the subjob level only ie. 0 in play or does it still kick in with it's +10MP?
The general merits kick in no matter what job you are. I have MP on my WAR75 because of MP merits. The only merits that don't kick in are the job-specific merits, for obvious reasons.

[Kirsteena]

I have 20mp as my 20 rng cause of merits!

[Amele]

mp on my sam!

(what? I feel weird with an empty mp bar)

[Silent Howler]

Hm.. I'm wondering if it should work this way. I mean, having 20mp on a WAR doesn't offer much, but what if it was RDM instead? This makes people inheritably better than someone else who is the same job, sames race, and same equipment, all because they got one or more jobs to lvl75 already. Should it really work like that? Or maybe I'm missing something. :/

[Malacite]

http://www.koolaid-ffxi.org/linkshell/space/Merit+Points


hope that helps.

[tdh]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Merit#Effects_of_Raised_Attributes

That link breaks down when Combat, Other, Magic, Stats, & HP/MP merits come into effect. As WAR62, I have 70MP and 2 Enfeebling Magic skill completely nekkid with no gear on. I'm not sure how the Other Merits section work though. Each one only provides 4 merits. So do I have full Crit merits at Lv.40, or at my current Lv.62 do I only have 3/4? The Wiki page doesn't seem to discuss those.

So anything in those categories will be available to your other jobs, at varied amounts depending on level. So you could actually learn WS early due to Merits you spent for a Lv.75 job. I've actually heard people who dumped Dagger Merits in for leveling THF subjob to learn Viper Bite earlier. (With 3 Merits available post Lv.30, a THF could actually learn Viper Bite at Lv.31.) Another "popular" step is for DRKs who go /NIN and Dual Wield Axes past Lv.50. Dump in Axe merits to help with Accuracy and to learn Rampage earlier. Rampage coupled with Souleater is a very dangerous thing.

[Malacite]

You get 1 every 10 levels for each non-job category leading up to I believe 55 where you will get 2, and the last one at 60/65.

[tdh]

You get 1 every 10 levels for each non-job category leading up to I believe 55 where you will get 2, and the last one at 60/65.This I know, but my query is about the Combat Merits. Each one of the Merits caps at 4, a total of 8 for the category. So I currently have 4/4 Crit Hit Rate Merits. If I got 1 per every 10 levels, then I would have 4/4 Crit merits at Lv.40. This does not follow the same path that other Merits follow. HP/MP have 8 total Merits, so at Lv.62 my WAR does have 70MP, but how many Crit merits do I have? 3? Or all 4?

[Malacite]

I don't see why you're confused.

At 62, you would have 7/8 HP/MP merits (confirming my 65 theory. I forget where I saw the exact merit breakdown for that category) and 4 critical hit merits.

Only the HP/MP and combat skill (weapons specifically) categories are different from the 1 every 10 levels stipulation since they have a max total of 8, and only if you're put 7 or more I believe into a single category. By around 55 you should suddenly get 2 merits instead of 1, or something like that. You'll have all 8 merits by the time you're 70 (if not sooner) I know that much for sure.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Hm.. I'm wondering if it should work this way. I mean, having 20mp on a WAR doesn't offer much, but what if it was RDM instead? This makes people inheritably better than someone else who is the same job, sames race, and same equipment, all because they got one or more jobs to lvl75 already. Should it really work like that? Or maybe I'm missing something. :/
Yes, it is supposed to work that way. General merits affecting jobs below 75 is one of the "perks" to meritting. And you don't get it "just" by hitting level 75. Once you hit 75, you have to earn merit points at a clilp of 10k "limit points" each (limit point is basically exp). And each successive upgrade tends to go up in cost. To get 4 MP merits, it takes 10 merit points, or 100k exp.

It's a way of encouraging players to level a different job once they get their first one to 75, rather than stop there and be one-job wonders. If you think it's unfair that players can work for advantages like that, consider that expensive gear already offers the same kind of advantage to more "priveleged" players (read: rich).

[tdh]

I don't see why you're confused.Ditto! I don't see where you're getting slipped up here.

At 62, you would have 7/8 HP/MP merits (confirming my 65 theory. I forget where I saw the exact merit breakdown for that category) and 4 critical hit merits.Yes, I know. At Lv.62 I would have 7 of 8 Merits in anything that follows the 8 Merit cap. This is what I'm talking about:

1>2>3>4]
Max combo: 8
Max per item: 4

* Enmity Increase (+1 per upgrade)
* Enmity Decrease (-1 per upgrade)
* Critical Hit Rate (+1% per upgrade)
* Enemy Critical Hit Rate (-1% per upgrade)
* Spell Interruption Rate (-2% per upgrade)

There aren't 8 Merits to spread out over 8 increments. If you follow that exact same scale, your 4 Crit Merits would be in effect at Lv.40 - NOT Lv.65 like all other Merits.

Only the HP/MP and combat skill (weapons specifically) categories are different from the 1 every 10 levels stipulation since they have a max total of 8, and only if you're put 7 or more I believe into a single category. By around 55 you should suddenly get 2 merits instead of 1, or something like that. You'll have all 8 merits by the time you're 70 (if not sooner) I know that much for sure.The link explains how 8 Merits increment. From Lv.10 to Lv.59, you get 1 per 10 levels. But you get the 7th Merit between Lv.60 & Lv.64, and then the 8th Merit at Lv.65.

So, again, do I get 1 Crit Merit at Lv.20, 2nd at Lv.40, 3rd at Lv.60, and then 4th at Lv.65? Or are they spaced out differently? My original question stated as:

I'm not sure how the Other Merits section work though. Each one only provides 4 merits. So do I have full Crit merits at Lv.40, or at my current Lv.62 do I only have 3/4?

So I currently have 4/4 Crit Hit Rate Merits. If I got 1 per every 10 levels, then I would have 4/4 Crit merits at Lv.40. This does not follow the same path that other Merits follow. HP/MP have 8 total Merits, so at Lv.62 my WAR does have 70MP, but how many Crit merits do I have? 3? Or all 4?

[Silent Howler]

Yes, it is supposed to work that way. General merits affecting jobs below 75 is one of the "perks" to meritting. And you don't get it "just" by hitting level 75. Once you hit 75, you have to earn merit points at a clilp of 10k "limit points" each (limit point is basically exp). And each successive upgrade tends to go up in cost. To get 4 MP merits, it takes 10 merit points, or 100k exp.

It's a way of encouraging players to level a different job once they get their first one to 75, rather than stop there and be one-job wonders. If you think it's unfair that players can work for advantages like that, consider that expensive gear already offers the same kind of advantage to more "priveleged" players (read: rich).
Yeah I know you have to actually get merit points after you hit 75. But really, it just doesn't seem right to me that you can get benefits from merits for other jobs that aren't even close to 75. And I'm not saying merits should work for just the jobs you have at 75. More like the minimum level should be raised, because getting benefits for your 15 RNG doesn't seem right to me.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Yeah I know you have to actually get merit points after you hit 75. But really, it just doesn't seem right to me that you can get benefits from merits for other jobs that aren't even close to 75. And I'm not saying merits should work for just the jobs you have at 75. More like the minimum level should be raised, because getting benefits for your 15 RNG doesn't seem right to me.
A lvl 7 RNG can get +3 DEX and +3 AGI... if he can afford Leaping / Bounding Boots. It is so wrong for a level 15 RNG to get +1 STR from merits?

A lvl 10 RDM can get +25 MP with Astral Ring. Is it so wrong for that same lvl 10 RDM to get +10 MP from merits?

Some would argue that stat upgrades from merits is better for the game than uber gear because you can't buy merit upgrades. You have to earn them by playing the game.

[Malacite]

No, I already explained to you that your critical hit merits (and any others you may have in that category) come in stages of 10 like everything else.


Every non-job merit comes in stages of 10 except for those that go beyond 6 such as HP/MP and weapon skills. Since evasion skills and "other" merits cap at 4, you get them at 10/20/30/40.

[LilithAngel]

Lyon and Malacite are both on the money on this one.

"Non-job" means every category other than the ones that have names that look and sound suspiciously like Jobs (i.e. Paladin, Ninja, Blue Mage, et al).
This includes, and is limited to, the following categories:

HP/MP
Attributes
Combat Skills
Magic Skills
Others

If it is in one of those categories, no matter how many you can put into them, they follow the 1-per-10 rule until 50, where it changes to 1-per-4 (merit 8 kicks in at 65, and by then, there's no higher amount to gain). In the case of the "Others" category, this means you gain full access to all merits put in there at level 40.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, the benefits of enjoying your merits partially at the lower levels is well deserved, but also comes at a hidden price: you become better than your peers at the lower levels.

If you don't understand this, then think about it in this light: you have extra accuracy, extra attack, do more damage, crit more often, have more MP to burn, hit harder with your spells, more attributes to pump your damage output higher, gain more hate...

See the picture? Yes, while we enjoy the privilege of extra boosts (beyond good gear anyone can gain normally), we also must excercise more caution, as our party members at those levels may or may not also have the merits to keep up with us, and we pay for our superior performance (I know this personally coming up as a Blue Mage and Corsair with Sword and capped Crit merits getting me into trouble often, even with me actively keeping a reign on my hate). With that manner of hidden price, on top of the obvious one of having to get to 75 in the first place, we most certainly have earned and deserved the right to use merits early on other jobs.

[Silent Howler]

Yes, the benefits of enjoying your merits partially at the lower levels is well deserved, but also comes at a hidden price: you become better than your peers at the lower levels.

If you don't understand this, then think about it in this light: you have extra accuracy, extra attack, do more damage, crit more often, have more MP to burn, hit harder with your spells, more attributes to pump your damage output higher, gain more hate...

See the picture? Yes, while we enjoy the privilege of extra boosts (beyond good gear anyone can gain normally), we also must excercise more caution, as our party members at those levels may or may not also have the merits to keep up with us, and we pay for our superior performance (I know this personally coming up as a Blue Mage and Corsair with Sword and capped Crit merits getting me into trouble often, even with me actively keeping a reign on my hate). With that manner of hidden price, on top of the obvious one of having to get to 75 in the first place, we most certainly have earned and deserved the right to use merits early on other jobs.
I see your point there, but it is not the strongest argument, IMO. You're only looking at a portion of the merits and not the full picture. A lot of merit bonuses do not have this "hidden price." HP merit, where's the hidden price there? Spell interruption rate, where's the hidden price there? And of course, you can decrease the enmity gained, thus possibly countering any additional hate you may get from merit bonuses. The "hidden cost" of certain merits does not counteract the benefits you can gain overall.

[Amele]

I see your point there, but it is not the strongest argument, IMO. You're only looking at a portion of the merits and not the full picture. A lot of merit bonuses do not have this "hidden price." HP merit, where's the hidden price there? Spell interruption rate, where's the hidden price there? And of course, you can decrease the enmity gained, thus possibly countering any additional hate you may get from merit bonuses. The "hidden cost" of certain merits does not counteract the benefits you can gain overall.

it's really very simple.

people who are 75 with general merits have put more time into the game and as a result have earned additional benefits inherent to their character. they're scaled so that the overall effect is not unbalanced for any given level (i.e. having +80HP at level 10 when max HP is normally what.. 100? would be broken. but 10hp at level 10 is almost nothing at all.)

no one is going to call you a gimp or keep you out of a party for not having merits so don't worry.

[Silent Howler]

it's really very simple.

people who are 75 with general merits have put more time into the game and as a result have earned additional benefits inherent to their character. they're scaled so that the overall effect is not unbalanced for any given level (i.e. having +80HP at level 10 when max HP is normally what.. 100? would be broken. but 10hp at level 10 is almost nothing at all.)

no one is going to call you a gimp or keep you out of a party for not having merits so don't worry.
See when you put it that way it seems fine. But when someone says "players have earned and have a right to use merits because there is a hidden cost" that didn't seem right. I was mainly countering that argument, not the idea of merits as a whole, at that point.

[Mhurron]

They didn't say because, they said but.

[Silent Howler]

They didn't say because, they said but.
With that manner of hidden price, on top of the obvious one of having to get to 75 in the first place, we most certainly have earned and deserved the right to use merits early on other jobs.
Ignoring the middle part (which is in fact the only part that even stressed the idea of players putting more time into the game) the hidden cost was clearing the argument there.

But whatever, I'm done. LilithAngel was just stressing the "other reason" why players should get to use merits at lower levels. No hard feeling against you. :)