So I'm a lolRNG now.... [Archive] - Final Fantasy XI :: Dreams in Vana'diel

hongman

08-10-2007, 02:22 AM

Its crazy. Malacite + Armando explained I should really consider lvling this as a sub to my THF, and I felt the urge to do it.

2 days later its 17.5 and Iv absolutely fell in love with it....Iv decided to keep it lvled along side my THF, to 37 at least, if not all the way.

RACC Gear-wise, Feather Collar +1, and when I could, Rangers Neck, 2 x Bone + 1.
Started off with Longbow +1, moved to Ryl.Arc. Longbow. Crossbow +1.

Food, Meat Mithkabobs. Was told Roast Pirpara, but AH was out and I didnt bother with Windy.

Subbed WAR.

Now, the questions!

1. My marksmanship was skilled previously from DRK, NIN, THF...so I concentrated on Archery, which was pretty much 0. Anything over T and it sucks even when capped at lvl. As soon as I got access to Acid Bolts in teh Doons, I was spamming those, and not only was Dmg higher, but it fires quicker with a NOTICEABLE accurary + over Archery. Why? Even swapped back to Longbow+1 for the extra 2 acc...

Even with WS's - Hot Shot I could use without SS if it wasnt up, and would land. Flaming Arrow? Was lucky to get 60% WITH SS.

2. How the hell? Swapping from Archery to Marks reset my TP...Say I want to use Bow, then drop an Acid Bolt...? Am I missing something?

3. What is this Distance-Accuracy + Distance-Damage thing I hear about?

Think thats it for now....Thanks.

VZX

08-10-2007, 03:25 AM

1. Well.... how much skill difference between your marksmanship and archery is the difference of ranged accuracy from both type of ranged weapon when you use them.

2. putting different ammo for wrong type of weapon force your ranged weapon to be pulled out from ranged slot, thus removing weapon = resetting your TP.

3. Long time ago, there was no such penalty that if you're shooting from varying distance, your racc/ratk varies. Now you can have varying racc and ratk from any possible distance you can do ranged attack.
There's notion of sweet spot where you have your racc and ratk unpenalized. This is the spot where you should shoot from

hongman

08-10-2007, 03:30 AM

Thanks for the treply, however it was kind of....not answering anything. Maybe I should have been clearer.

1. RNG has the same skill rating for Archery and Marksmanship. Both Capped for each level. So moot point.

2. I know swapping resets TP. Is it swapping Ranged weapon that does it or Ammo? Kinda doesnt matter, as if I want to land an Acid Bolt while using Bow, I have to swap them both anyway. What do other Rangers do? Just use one weapon and stick to it all the way through?

3. Again, yes I know this, was looking for more specific info like hoe far away to stand, and what affects what - closer means more dmg or less, etc. Tbh I havent noticed any of this, and I have been looking.

IfritnoItazura

08-10-2007, 03:48 AM

Thanks for the treply, however it was kind of....not answering anything. Maybe I should have been clearer.
You have a tendency to miss good answers except from people you like. >_>

1. RNG has the same skill rating for Archery and Marksmanship. Both Capped for each level. So moot point.
What you wrote could have been interpreted as you have Marksmanship capped, but not Archery, which is why VZX (a great authority on FFXI game mechanism, BTW) said that.

Basically, if your Archery is close to Marksmanship but you think Archery misses more, you're feeling placebo effect of longer delay weapons. It's why people mistakenly think DRK misses a lot. (I parsed my DRK up to Lv.40; it was no worse or better than any other melee job I've tried when skill's capped.)

There are more accuracy available on bow and arrows than crossbows and bolts, I think, to boot.

2. I know swapping resets TP. Is it swapping Ranged weapon that does it or Ammo? Kinda doesnt matter, as if I want to land an Acid Bolt while using Bow, I have to swap them both anyway. What do other Rangers do? Just use one weapon and stick to it all the way through?
VZX answered you: you swapped ranged weapon, that's why you lost TP. Ammo swapping is fine as long as it's bolt -> bolt or arrow -> arrow.

3. Again, yes I know this, was looking for more specific info like hoe far away to stand, and what affects what - closer means more dmg or less, etc. Tbh I havent noticed any of this, and I have been looking.
If you are eating meat, you might as well stand at the edge of the melee range to start with. Move back a bit if you hit, move forward a bit if you miss two in a row.

Sooner or later, you'd train your brain to eyeball your sweet spot. Some windower users utilize a plug-in to figure out the distance from monster. I kinda frown on that, though.

When Sharpshot is up, move to maximum range immediately, and turn your prey into a pin cushion.

hongman

08-10-2007, 05:37 AM

You have a tendency to miss good answers except from people you like. >_>

What you wrote could have been interpreted as you have Marksmanship capped, but not Archery, which is why VZX (a great authority on FFXI game mechanism, BTW) said that.

Basically, if your Archery is close to Marksmanship but you think Archery misses more, you're feeling placebo effect of longer delay weapons. It's why people mistakenly think DRK misses a lot. (I parsed my DRK up to Lv.40; it was no worse or better than any other melee job I've tried when skill's capped.)

There are more accuracy available on bow and arrows than crossbows and bolts, I think, to boot.

I miss good answers from people I like...? :rofl: Do I? (no sarcasm here - interesting you pointed that out that's all)

I never meant my reply so sound ungrateful or unappreciative. Re-reading my post, yes I can see #1 could be misinterpreted. So I clarified.

It was maybe some placebo - but Marksmanship definately trumped, without a doubt. Wish I started the parser now.

Even so, each Bow attack on crabs/sheep was doing between 29-35. Long delay, as you mentioned. Xbox was doing 40s + Def down - and its quicker. Is it just that the weapons/ammo available at this level makes xbox just better overall?

Re: #2 - Ok, so I was looking then more for an opinion of how others do it - Do you just decide which to use for that fight/party/level and stick to it all the way through? Otherwise, I can see me sticking with Xbox all the way, keeping Bow skilled just in case outside of party.

#3 - Thanks, Ill try this. Just that I couldnt distinguish any real difference between far/near, and then what about RNG's that melee for TP as well...?

Dymlos

08-10-2007, 06:08 AM

Welcome to the world of RNGs. Right now it may seem Marksy is better than Archery, and yes that is true. But later on closer to end game when you're able to swap in Demon/Darksteel Bolts for Slugwinder, you will notice a significant difference in damage in which Archery will do more damage. But they even out once you get your hands on Selene's Bow/Vali's Bow and Othinus' Bow.

hongman

08-10-2007, 06:34 AM

So basically, so long as I keep Archery skilled up, I have no reason not to use Marksmanship full time for now?

Also, those bolts - Crude bolts? Is there actually any use to those with their -RACC?

Dymlos

08-10-2007, 07:01 AM

Oh you can still use them, I see a lot of RNGs use Marksy due to the fact that bolts are cheaper than arrows. It's really your preference. Would you rather do lots 'o dmg, or smack status bolts in the mob's face? And for the crap bolts/arrows/bullets? Farming, and when they're high enough to sell them, vendor trash.

Malacite

08-10-2007, 08:47 AM

Don't eat mithkabobs!!!! > _ < people need to research food effects.

Last I checked mithkabobs don't give any ranged attack, only melee. You want to use Rice Dumplings for a whopping +30% ranged attack. Also for archery, you'll do more per-shot damage and higher WS, but in general Crossbow is better for EXP at most levels.

If you do use archery, make sure you use the following bows and the proper ammo:

16-30: Power Bow +1
30-40: War Bow +1
40-50: Battle Bow +1
55-75: Eurytos Bow*

* There are a few ways to get this bow now, as well as a new rare/ex version of this. Selene's Bow is another alternative too and is free. Also as you go up past 40 you'll find that archery will get increasingly expensive, and is in fact the most expensive of the 3 weapons.

In a hurry, post more later. GUNS RULE

hongman

08-10-2007, 08:55 AM

I plead guilty. My Mog locker was 80/80 and I saw 2 stacks of Kabobs sitting there so I took them without researching. ;)

The tradeoff - Landing Status bolts (which is a huge bonus) or do uber dmg.

I want both. but which is better >.> lol. If I switch mid-fight, I lose TP (which at later levels is huge).

Kirsteena

08-10-2007, 09:35 AM

The way I tend to do it, is cap archery, then go for xbow! But I'm mainly soloing atm on worms, so archery seems to work better for me. Who knows what will happen after 24 and me actually starting to party (I hate partying pre jungles now)

Omgwtfbbqkitten

08-10-2007, 09:40 AM

I miss good answers from people I like...? :rofl: Do I? (no sarcasm here - interesting you pointed that out that's all)

He said you tend to ignore or overlook good answers except when answered from people you actually like. You also read about half of the replies written out to you in this very thread. VZX doesn't speak up much around here, but he knows his stuff.

Re: #2 - Ok, so I was looking then more for an opinion of how others do it - Do you just decide which to use for that fight/party/level and stick to it all the way through? Otherwise, I can see me sticking with Xbox all the way, keeping Bow skilled just in case outside of party.

Skill both in PTs, it won't take long to cap both and you're only beating yourself up with more expenses if you skill outside of PT. Use what you feel performs better from there.

#3 - Thanks, Ill try this. Just that I couldnt distinguish any real difference between far/near, and then what about RNG's that melee for TP as well...?

Waste of time. You'll be building up a lot of +Ranged Accuracy gear which means you'll be collecting a bit of -Accuracy gear as well. The rings are a double edged sword like that, making it more difficult to melee.

Guns are about the only weapon that let you get close enough to justify meleeing for TP, Xbow and Bow you need to stand a little further away, so its just more effective to TP from a range with those than try to melee for TP when using those.

Vyuru

08-10-2007, 09:51 AM

2. putting different ammo for wrong type of weapon force your ranged weapon to be pulled out from ranged slot, thus removing weapon = resetting your TP.

Really? I didn't know that, good to know ^^

Myself personally I'd just go for marksmanship, I like the status bolts too much and things get REALLY fun with bloody/holy bolts.

The status arrows are nice too, but they just come in so late in the game, plus if there is a sam/rng in the party, more often than not he's using them, or at least the good ones do, and so they cover the archery aspect in parties.

nanatsu

08-10-2007, 09:56 AM

Re: #2 - Ok, so I was looking then more for an opinion of how others do it - Do you just decide which to use for that fight/party/level and stick to it all the way through? Otherwise, I can see me sticking with Xbox all the way, keeping Bow skilled just in case outside of party.

The main advantage to xbow is acid bolts. They allow the entire party to maximize their damage, because every melee can benefit from the attack down status, which is perfect against crabs and pugils. Xbow vs Bow is basically trading speed and utility for pure ws damage. Your ws damage will be quite a bit more with bow than xbow at those lower levels. Also, once you get high enough for Barrage, you'll get more out of it using a Bow than you will with an xbow, meaning you'll get a larger amount of TP from using Barrage with a Bow.

It's your choice as to which one you want to use. They both balance out in the end, with one edging out the other a bit at certain points. Holy bolts have a way of pushing xbow over Bow in terms of damage if you know how to make the most of them. But using whichever one you are more comfortable with is fine.

EDIT: Just so I'm clear, I need to add that like others have said, skilling up both in an exp party is perfectly doable and recommended. You're going to want the option later, espcially if you ever plan on taking it above 37.

Lmnop

08-10-2007, 11:36 AM

VZX doesn't speak up much around here, but he knows his stuff.

I want a VZX.

Malacite

08-10-2007, 02:26 PM

90% of the time I'd say Xbow wins out for EXP (the other 10% being Puks/Colibri or if you have a weapon that's supremely better such as using Ebow for the 1st time at 55)

Don't worry so much about your crossbow damage. You should be able to use venom bolts soon, which you'll be swapping in after applying def down from acids (these are a cheap bridge ammo until you hit 30 and can fire holy bolts)

The basic strategy of a crossbow user is as follows:

- Fire acid bolts until the def down procs (reapply as needed)
- Switch to Holy Bolts for TP (or venoms pre-30)
- WS and Barrage with Darksteel or Mythril Bolts (or holy bolts pre-40)

Don't forget that the def down effect from acid bolts overrides defense up abilities like Scissor Guard and Cocoon (and vice versa, so you'll need to reapply) giving you a pseudo Dispel ability. It makes such a huge difference in those early levels against pugs and crabs it's not funny. Those def up moves really suck and it's nice being able to replace them with a defense down and increase everyone's damage.

That's why I see Bow as kind of a "selfish" weapon. Except for a few levels (or against certain mobs like puks and colibri who are immune/resistant to acid bolts) crossbow really does win out for EXP. That said, it's not like the high damage from bows (and especially guns) isn't worth it, especially when you have a BRD handy to buff everyone. You can also use bloody bolts to heal yourself and sleep bolts too if you're in a pinch or to solo.

In short, it's crossbow's overall utility that makes it the better weapon for most stages of EXP. Guns and Bows are for everything else (and puks/colibri ^^) I find, or if you really just love hitting for obscenely high numbers (3k Slugshot ftw)

hongman

08-11-2007, 04:14 PM

Ok, so iv been on RNG all this time in-game, and without visiting here I have found my niche and it does correspond to what you guys have said.

I can easily cap both in pt. No prob.

WS's still miss a lot, i found I did more consistent damage on WS with Red Lotus Blade in Qufim. But when they do land, its real nice.

Damage for me is Bow -> Xbow. Not tried gun yet. I still use Xbow in exp parties though, for acids and bloody bolts (I love those things).

I actually swap every so often now even when they are capped - on Mandies, where they dont do DEF up - just keeps me interested in using both, the whole placebo effect on ACC is gone now.

I love ranger.

IfritnoItazura

08-11-2007, 04:54 PM

When I was playing RNG (only got to Lv.20), I ran in really close for WS. Sad, but true. And, yes, still missed a bit.

The damage weren't all that impressive at that range, so it was mostly for SC's sake I used weapon skills.

* * *

Come to think of it, I forgot to find out if Archery/Marksmanship WS can be done while moving around. Want to test that for me, Hongman?

Omgwtfbbqkitten

08-11-2007, 05:49 PM

Missing on WS is going to be a bit common until 30ish. The first Accuracy Bonus Trait isnt really too much by itself, but once you get the Archer's Knives and Noct Set you'll really feel a difference.

Also, try Flounder Meuniere (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Flounder_Meuniere) around your current level, its good stuff

Malacite

08-11-2007, 06:42 PM

I see you're lv 24 now. You're right in the prime gun levels. If you can grab a decent gun like Pirate's Gun, Bullets will absolutely destroy mandies. Nothing in the game can match Gun's damage from levels 22-29 especially with rice dumplings on.

Pirate's Gun is lv 27, so you'll be fine with a bandit or platoon gun (1 point damage difference, big whup)

Bullets have a whopping 46 DMG rating, so you'd have a combined DMG of 60/61. I can personally vouch for the utter sickness of this. When I tried this in yhoator even at lv 25 I was shooting mandies (with rice dumplings on) for over 100 damage a shot easily. I managed to break 200 dmg on weaponskills, it was disgusting and I reveled in the sheer destructive power.

That said, you're definitely going to need /NIN to survive doing that much damage. I was crazy and used /SAM to reduce the shots I needed to 100 TP by 1.

hongman

08-13-2007, 02:13 AM

Thanks for the replies.

Ita - Not sure what you mean by "moving around"? All I know as its annoying as hell when I get the "Too Far Away" message, no WS goes off and my TP is suddenly 0. Grr.

Omg - I will try that food - it looks exactly like what I need. The -Emn will come in handy too...

Malacite - wow, I guess Ill try a gun for 28-30 - I'm 28 now (actually I delvled to 27, but only like 100tnl) and I have my 2 Archer's. Sounds mean!

Anyone have experience soloing Abyss Worms -> Parties? Looks cool to me, but after dieing about 5 times getting to camp (meh...blame it on lack of concentration) I gave up for the hour I was on last night.

Nuriko

08-13-2007, 05:55 AM

That "too far away" and loss of TP happens for melee WS as well...

hongman

08-13-2007, 08:23 AM

Yeah, SE should really fix that.

I can see how where people say RNG is expensive @.@ I lost count of how much money Iv dumped into Ammo so far. Worse is trying to judge how much Im going to use without being left short in a pt, but with little surplus as possible before moving onto the next range of arrows.

Inv space is, lol. If I ever take RNG (and THF...) to 75 I think ima need a seperate mule dedicated to each one. Or a lot of mannequins. Sucky.

Omni

08-13-2007, 08:44 AM

Yawn@all the finger pointing and personality judgement. srsly guys.

You will miss a lot up until 30 as most ppl have said. Once you get to 28, you'll have access to archer's knives which can be a possible +20rng acc if you sub nin. Then at 30 there is the acc. trait kitty talked about.

Dmg wise, regular shot dmg should be pretty good if not the highest among all the jobs. WS will really suck until lv.55 when you get slugwinder. So if you can stick it out for 55 lvls of lame ws, you'll make it all up once you get your 1 and only true ws.

I used pretty much all weapons through all ranges. xbow, bow, gun. power bow is pretty decent when stacking acid bolts and spamming holy bolts. every 10 lvls theres a good long bow to get also, until u get to 50. then at 55 theres e-bow and 60 for s-bow. At 34, theres your first good gun imo, serpentine's gun. iirc it has 10rng acc and 10rng atk. Just find out what you like in these levels. Once you get to the 50s, you'll want to use a muskteer's gun since u get access to silver bullets then. If you can get your hands on an e-bow(or s-bow), that will be your end-all weapon at that point if you really wanted to just stick with 1 skill. At 67, you can get an o-bow which will be a great XP weapon and is nice to add some variety to your weaponry. Not the greatest for end-game stuff though.

Personally, I carry an s-bow and o-bow around when I'm on rng. I have all my merits in archery so that's what i use for end-game stuff. o-bow for everything else that doesnt really matter.

Happy hunting!

hongman

08-13-2007, 08:54 AM

Thanks Omni.

I am currently making a list to print out for myself so I know when I need to upgrade and with what ammo to TP/WS in, for all 3 weapons - and I do have all the weapons you have mentioned in there :)

I am making my own judgement calls, Im not going for every single upgrade available, as Im trying to not over-do it in costs but not being gimp.

I'll post it here when I have a chance for your perusal, see if I have missed out anything major.

O-bow, S-Bow, E-Bow...I get confused at which is which lol >.>

Tsrwedge

08-13-2007, 09:03 AM

Haven't seen anyone post this, but distance from the mob does change your damage.

(dang it, I still can't post URLs... go to FFXIclopedia and enter this in your address bar after "org" : Distance#Distance_and_Ranged_Attack)

Omni

08-13-2007, 09:10 AM

Usually if you get either an Selene's Bow or Euryote's Bow, having 1 is fine. Don't need both unless you just want to have them.

Othinus' Bow is the x-bow, which is the best x-bow in the game. Nothing comes close before and after.

If you stick to just the new +1 longbow at 30, 40 and 50 you should be fine for archery. Good guns are a bit more spaced out lvl wise. serpentine (34) > muskteers/+1/+2 (50,52) > hellfire (70? i forget, never liked hellfire as it sits on one of my mules). x-bow is kind of iffy... i used power bow for a while, dabbled with some of the +1 x-bows but nothing really spectacular until o-bow.

taru edit: distance does affect dmg/acc but not as much as it did before after the nerf. it's a lot more forgiving now. the semi-unnerf a year ago helped things quite a bit. I typically stand ~6-9 distance for gun/xbow and 11-13 for bow.

KingOfZeal

08-13-2007, 09:12 AM

VZX's post (the first reply in the thread) said this. And, for reference and a quick link:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Distance#Distance_and_Ranged_Attack

Omgwtfbbqkitten

08-13-2007, 10:01 AM

Once you get to the 50s, you'll want to use a muskteer's gun since u get access to silver bullets then. If you can get your hands on an e-bow(or s-bow), that will be your end-all weapon at that point if you really wanted to just stick with 1 skill. At 67, you can get an o-bow which will be a great XP weapon and is nice to add some variety to your weaponry. Not the greatest for end-game stuff though.

You're still going to want to keep Xbow on hand for crabs and defoliators, crabs in the early 50s and defoliators in the early 60s. Keep in mind that 50-55 is that nasty set of levels where jobs like RDM, BRD and COR just breeze on through and you likely may not get one. And your main target there is the crabs, which spam Defense Boost, so Acid Bolts will help you a lot there.

Guns and bow will serve you better on colibri, imps and puks. Xbow works well in mire, but I generally favor gun/bow in Mamool/Troll camps.

As for endgame stuff, I've personally found that for Dynamis cities and Limbus Xbow is very useful. Temenos is always Double Light Element and tends to have high HP/High Def mobs within, Xbow + Acid/Holy setup is great there. Double light, a nice MND build + light staff can give you some real nice holy bolt damage in there.

I've done bow there and it was OK, but Xbow lent better overall functionality in Temeno and Dyna cities. Just about every RNG I've met get excited to use O-Bow in Temenos.

Malacite

08-13-2007, 10:20 AM

Omni

08-13-2007, 10:29 AM

You're still going to want to keep Xbow on hand for crabs and defoliators, crabs in the early 50s and defoliators in the early 60s. Keep in mind that 50-55 is that nasty set of levels where jobs like RDM, BRD and COR just breeze on through and you likely may not get one. And your main target there is the crabs, which spam Defense Boost, so Acid Bolts will help you a lot there.
Guns and bow will serve you better on colibri, imps and puks. Xbow works well in mire, but I generally favor gun/bow in Mamool/Troll camps.
As for endgame stuff, I've personally found that for Dynamis cities and Limbus Xbow is very useful. Temenos is always Double Light Element and tends to have high HP/High Def mobs within, Xbox + Acid/Holy setup is great there. Double light, a nice MND build + light staff can give you some real nice holy bolt damage in there.
I've done bow there and it was OK, but Xbow lent better overall functionality in Temeno and Dyna cities. Just about every RNG I've met get excited to use O-Bow in Temenos.

Sorry, I dont join a pt nor form a pt when there is no refresh. so I always have a rdm or brd because, that's just stupid and a plain ol waste of time if you have a pt past 41 with no refresh. Having an x-bow is handy but you'll suffer from the lack of dmg you'll be missing out on with musketeers/silver bullets.

I dont consider dynamis/limbus 'endgame' per se, i was thinking about mobs that have high defense and high evasion where landing shots would be difficult. dynamis/limbus mobs are pretty easy to tp on etc. you're right, having an o-bow and holys in limbus is fun.

Omgwtfbbqkitten

08-13-2007, 10:31 AM

Don't bother using gun past lv 29 until at least lv 50.

The reason is at 30 you'll get access to Holy Bolts finally, along with new and better bows (and the arrows and bolts are way cheaper than bullets)

From 30-40 Xbow + Holy Bolts will just plain dominate, especially on bats in garlaige.

Agreed. There's really no need to spend more than you have to at these levels, especially when arrows and bolts are so cheap and holy bolts especially are very effective, and potentially even more damaging than both the bullets and arrows.

Sorry, I dont join a pt nor form a pt when there is no refresh. so I always have a rdm or brd because, that's just stupid and a plain ol waste of time if you have a pt past 41 with no refresh. Having an x-bow is handy but you'll suffer from the lack of dmg you'll be missing out on with musketeers/silver bullets.

Way to miss the point!

The point is PTs do happen without RDM, BRD and COR and there are days you just can't get those jobs in PT, Refresh isn't even the main issue on these mobs.

Even with a RDM, BRD or COR for dispel, you will boost damage for the PT with acid bolts on these mobs. The effects of Dia and Acid Bolts stack

Maybe it just comes from being BRD and RDM prior to RNG, those jobs prioritize optimizing PT performance and weakening mobs. Given RNG's tools, I will use them to that end first and damage second. There's plenty of room for RNG epeen damage elsewhere.

High Def/HP Mob -> Xbow with Acid/Holy, raw DMG bolt for WS
High Attack/Double or Triple Attack Mob -> Bow with Demon Arrows
Magic resistant mob -> Gun/Bow for raw damage
HNM/God -> Gun/Bow for raw damage
Timed instances -> Bow/Xbow variable.
Solo -> Xbow (Acid, Bloody, Holy and raw DMG bolt)

That's always how I've played it.

Malacite

08-13-2007, 01:54 PM

Very true Kitten ^^b

Omni

08-13-2007, 02:49 PM

ya and pts DO happen to have rdm and brds most the time also. so tomatoe, tomato.

my fault for not being clear but what i meant with 'refresh' is the presence of rdm or brd. (thats what i think when it comes to filling that 'refresher' spot which also comes with the handiness of dispel that these 2 refresher jobs have).

your xbow of choice at 50-59 would be an arbalest+1 (30dmg) + darksteel (50dmg). compared to a musketeer (34dmg) + silver bullet (81dmg). 80dmg vs 115dmg in terms of base dmg. you're missing out on 35 base dmg. thats nearly 50% of ur xbow/bolt combo.

you could make the case that i helps the whole pt over all and the lost dmg by using xbow is made up with your pt hitting a bit harder. you could also say the dmg you deal using musketeer/silverbullets will make up for the dmg u would gain from ur acids as well. when i was in this level range on my rng, i was lvling in places likes tree and terrigan off crabs and pugils. so my opinions about xbow/gun in these lvls are not out of thin air. i carried both and tried to see what worked best and my mukseteers always seemed to give me the best results. slugging for 400ish compared to slugging to 700ish just didnt seem worth it. not to mention per shot dmg and accuracy. xbow always is a bit less accurate since many have little to no rng. acc traits, while guns usually have a nice hefty amount. again, tomatoe, tomato.

honestly, im not trying to butt heads with anyone but i was merely making suggestions and commentary. if picking apart posts to apply them to situations that occur in the most shitty of circumstances (ie: not having a rdm or brd in a pt against crabs or crawlers, which to me is a tremendously idiotic thing to do. not saying it doesnt happen because i have been invited to these pts and every single one of them disband in less than 5minutes after they see how long it takes to bring one down even with me applying acids) and taking them as an matter of fact rather than with a grain of salt is your thing, then pick away. it really does tire me out reading and explaining what i say sometimes.

happy hunting.

hongman

08-13-2007, 04:24 PM

Well, i dinged 31.

1. Flounder food is the best thing since sliced bread.
2. Gun obliterated mandies as you said.
3. Holy Bolts. Nuff said.
4. Barrage. Is. Evil.

I experimented with bow, but stuck to Gun and Holy, they just outdamaged Arrows. Barrage landed for ~250, is that right?

Holy Bolt added effect was real crazy, sometimes 20, sometimes 10, somtimes 35. How come? Mandies spam MND down and i took this into account but...

Way to pull a death sentence. WS ->Barrage ->WS.

RNG does seem so overpowered - while the average melee is hitting for 30ish (WAR on GAXE) im doing 80+ per shot, and my WS's are 140's, his are 90-100, then every5 mins I have Barrage.

omg I'm turning into a DD nut - shoot me now.

EDIT: I even raided my mule savings to fund this pt, lol.

Malacite

08-13-2007, 05:47 PM

The first time I fired barrage at 30 I was still using gun (bow would have hit even harder) with rice dumplings and /war for berserk.

I did over 400 damage to the poor bastard. Fell right out my chair ^ _ ^

Armando

08-13-2007, 05:49 PM

Holy Bolt added effect was real crazy, sometimes 20, sometimes 10, somtimes 35. How come? Mandies spam MND down and i took this into account but...Think of the added effect as a small nuke. It'll see partial resists of varying severity.

Malacite

08-13-2007, 08:52 PM

it's also enmity free

nanatsu

08-13-2007, 10:42 PM

ya and pts DO happen to have rdm and brds most the time also. so tomatoe, tomato.
my fault for not being clear but what i meant with 'refresh' is the presence of rdm or brd. (thats what i think when it comes to filling that 'refresher' spot which also comes with the handiness of dispel that these 2 refresher jobs have).
your xbow of choice at 50-59 would be an arbalest+1 (30dmg) + darksteel (50dmg). compared to a musketeer (34dmg) + silver bullet (81dmg). 80dmg vs 115dmg in terms of base dmg. you're missing out on 35 base dmg. thats nearly 50% of ur xbow/bolt combo ...

...i carried both and tried to see what worked best and my mukseteers always seemed to give me the best results. slugging for 400ish compared to slugging to 700ish just didnt seem worth it. not to mention per shot dmg and accuracy. xbow always is a bit less accurate since many have little to no rng. acc traits, while guns usually have a nice hefty amount. again, tomatoe, tomato.

You also have to take into account the huge delay of guns. With xbow you can get in quite a bit more shots and actually ws faster if your accuracy is consistent, which isn't really that hard to do. I haven't worked out the delay but I'm guessing you can probably shoot close to 3 times with xbow before you get a chance to lift your gun again. The difference in damage is not as much as you think. With Holy Bolts additional effect + increased chances to skillchain, xbow often wins out on DoT alone. It's not always about the big ws numbers, even for rng.

hongman

08-14-2007, 01:51 AM

Wow. I was eating that Flounder stuff, and its probably me being both closer the the lvl of mobs in the area and also the food, but when my party started out in Yuhtunga, I parsed 94% RACC. 94!!!

When I dinged 28 we moved, and it slowed down a bit there.

So, up till 50 I think, I'll be TPing with Holy, WS'ing with Mythril, and applying Acid Bolts as needed. It only takes 3 or 4 mobs to cap Marksy and Archery after every ding.

All in all though, I'm having fun!

VZX

08-14-2007, 02:51 AM

You got 4 accuracy penalty for every level mob is higher than you.

Also, you gain another 12 acc/racc on when you dinged lv30.
You should see vast improvement really on lv30. I think lv30 is the place where RNG shine regardless of player's play style, not 75

hongman

08-14-2007, 03:03 AM

I still havent gotten round to working out my RACC using the formula on Wiki....

I wanted an opinion actually on E bow vs S Bow.

How important is it for me to get E bow, seeming as S bow just a few lvls after seems to dominate it?

Would I be classed as under par if I didnt have it? Id definately get the S Bow, heaven knows the amount of times I've camped that bunny for other rangers, I think they owe me a few camps in return :p

Kirsteena

08-14-2007, 03:38 AM

If you can afford it, the E bow knocks the socks off the competition. If you can't, S bow is a perfectly acceptable little brother. And free (apart from the price of the carrots). Noone is going to judge you if you have S bow instead of E Bow. If you have neither, that is when you have to ask why are you going rng. For Xbow, O bow is also free, and you should be able to solo that as well (though help is nice).

hongman

08-14-2007, 03:52 AM

oops I got the 2 mixed round - :p

How about Vali's Bow, or is that retardedly overcamped and/or bad drop rate?

O Bow I've camped a few times for others, I'm pretty sure I could solo him.

Kirsteena

08-14-2007, 04:33 AM

I've camped it a lot with a friend - it's a retarded drop rate (and he went thf). Also, the pop conditions are crap.... but it is always worth a try.

Dymlos

08-14-2007, 05:55 AM

I swear SE should change the pop rates for the Shadows and make it more campable.

hongman

08-14-2007, 06:00 AM

Sod it then. I will (knowing myself as I do) will probably go for S Bow and then after, go after E/V bow.

And yes, it is retarded.

Malacite

08-14-2007, 10:40 AM

They used to be the same as morbolger, with a 21-24 hour window. Then they changed it (without telling ANYONE, people had to figure this out) to a 21-40+ window. It's bull shit.

They should be force-spawned like they did with that last udpate to alky braclets and THF Knife with 100% drop rate. Have the pop items drop from the other shadows (who check EP to 75 btw) or something.

Omni

08-14-2007, 10:48 AM

You also have to take into account the huge delay of guns. With xbow you can get in quite a bit more shots and actually ws faster if your accuracy is consistent, which isn't really that hard to do. I haven't worked out the delay but I'm guessing you can probably shoot close to 3 times with xbow before you get a chance to lift your gun again. The difference in damage is not as much as you think. With Holy Bolts additional effect + increased chances to skillchain, xbow often wins out on DoT alone. It's not always about the big ws numbers, even for rng.

how will u have more chances to skill chain when ur tp return is lower? that logic doesnt make any sense. if it did, then weapons like loxley bow and machine xbow would be awesome. i have both and ive used loxely in xp before at mid 60s. I got elemental arrows and fired away to the my hearts content. lower slugs and lower barrage return at the cost of faster shots doesnt mean you tp any faster than a gun user. thats a huge draw back from having a lower delay weapon. u miss out on the nice instant tp u get from a full barrage. so actually you might end up letting off less slugs with the loss of a nice 70-90tp chunk u get back from barrage when you get back only 40ish tp.

holy bolt procs on some mobs arent as great as you imagine. you wont always get that nice +20ish dmg on all mobs. especially the higher lvl u get. on bats theyre great but once u start hitting some of the tougher mobs, the proc isnt always great.

as far as dmg goes, it is a nice chunk. sorry but, slugging for 600-700 is not trivial when slugging for 400-500 with xbow.

Omgwtfbbqkitten

08-14-2007, 10:54 AM

I camped Eastern Shadow once shortly after the change to the bow drop, I got it first try and so far I still haven't seen another RNG on my server with Vali's Bow. I'm sure they exist, but the NM is still on a really retarded respawn of at least 16 hours and possibly up to a 27 hour respawn. I camped it for four hours and RMT were apparently on thier lunch break when I was camping, because the flooded in right after I got the drop.

I'm just glad I never have to camp that one again. Or spend 3 mil on E-Bow.

There's no shame in Selene's Bow, though, definately go for it, its good to have in various situations. The stats on the bow's moon effects are assumed to be the following:

New Moon: Ranged Attack+25, Ranged Accuracy+5.
50% Moon: Ranged Attack+15, Ranged Accuracy+15
Full Moon: Ranged Attack+5, Ranged Accuracy+25.

V/E Bow's biggest edge over Selene's Bow is the delay. E/V Bow is 490, Selene's is 540.

Omni

08-14-2007, 11:07 AM

dont worry about the e-bow/s-bow debate. both are great weapons. both will serve you well.

i kinda like my s-bow more. e-bow does look more aesthetically pleasing. s-bow looks like some lv.17 power bow -_-

Malacite

08-14-2007, 11:49 AM

It's not just the delay, it's because E/V Bow is consistent while S-Bow varies.

Both are good weapons, but the other big edge to E Bow is you get to use it much earlier as well.

nanatsu

08-14-2007, 12:57 PM

how will u have more chances to skill chain when ur tp return is lower? that logic doesnt make any sense. if it did, then weapons like loxley bow and machine xbow would be awesome. i have both and ive used loxely in xp before at mid 60s. I got elemental arrows and fired away to the my hearts content. lower slugs and lower barrage return at the cost of faster shots doesnt mean you tp any faster than a gun user. thats a huge draw back from having a lower delay weapon. u miss out on the nice instant tp u get from a full barrage. so actually you might end up letting off less slugs with the loss of a nice 70-90tp chunk u get back from barrage when you get back only 40ish tp.
holy bolt procs on some mobs arent as great as you imagine. you wont always get that nice +20ish dmg on all mobs. especially the higher lvl u get. on bats theyre great but once u start hitting some of the tougher mobs, the proc isnt always great.
as far as dmg goes, it is a nice chunk. sorry but, slugging for 600-700 is not trivial when slugging for 400-500 with xbow.

I've given it some thought. I'll concede to you that, if you're taking the numbers into consideration, you won't ws more with xbow than bow. It doesn't make sense to say that when you know that all weapons basically gain TP at the same rate.

With xbow, your TP return is lower, but you're still shooting fast enough to outpace the horrifically HIGH delay of a gun. Yeah you miss out on barrage TP and that's one of the things that makes it more even rather than skew things off in another direction. But for 200+ extra delay on most guns you get about 1.5% more TP than the slowest crossbow. I've used both gun and xbow and I dunno if it's just me but when I'm using gun with an xbow using rng in the pt he always seemed to get TP first except when I have barrage up. I've also usually out tped a gun rng with my xbow unless there's accuracy issues on my end, though I will admit on occasion it's been the other way around. I know that clashes with what I said earlier about conceding that you don't ws more with xbow, but I can only relate what I've observed.

I've also learned that Barrage is far from reliable. If you're getting 100% tp consistently with gun every time you barrage then you're on god mode. With Obow you're already getting 15% TP per shot. You're set as far as barrage goes. As long as you have some TP in the chamber when you use barrage, you can still get that instant ws and if not, an extra shot from a crossbow won't kill you. Waiting for a gun after you've missed too many shots on barrage will make you want to shoot yourself.

Loxley and Machine have a base damage that's too low to take advantage of their speed. And being ahead by 200 dmg in ws numbers isn't going to make you outpace xbow when you can make up that damage in a few normal shots. That's like saying MNK sucks. In all honesty all xbow, gun and bow should all be considered important and you should use the right weapon for the right job. Xbow for high def mobs, gun for high def mobs that you can't land acids on. Gun is also extremely useful because you can pile on burst damage through JA and WS, but that will only go so far in exp. It is, however, perfect against gods, whereas xbow is lacking. Gun definitely doesn't suck next to xbow, but xbow does what it does on DoT and the ability to lower a target's def. That's what makes it close.

That's another thing I wanna point out. If it's something that acid won't proc on, then by all means use a gun. Otherwise, you can come close to or exceed the total damage of a gun in an exp with xbow. if you have another rng in your pt and they are using acids, use your gun. In this case would be the only way I'm willing to concede that the gun has the ability to outdo an xbow in an exp party situation.

I do realize guns are powerful. They have the highest base dmg of any weapon in the game. They also have high ws power but low DoT. Xbow is the complete opposite. That's just how it is and that's what makes them even.

hongman

08-15-2007, 01:46 AM

Dinged 32 in Garliage.

Well, things have, slowed down a lot. Acc was crap on bats (Using Flounder still), and Barrage kept missing (or only 1 shot connecting).

Still out DD'ed the war and blu but a massive differennce in performance. Maybe it will pick up again as I lvl and get nearer the lvl of the mobs there.

Holy Bolts eat bats though ^^ Bow was not very good there.

At which point is a %RACC food going to be better than a straight +15?

Kirsteena

08-15-2007, 01:58 AM

Normally, after 40-45 the flat status foods start to wear off, starting to favour sushi. Certainly not before then.

hongman

08-15-2007, 02:51 AM

Hmm ok. So I'll stick to Flounder for now then.

Last nights party was certainly not all that. rdm whm blm war blu rng.

The rdm had a whm SJ 5 lvls out >.>

War tanked (fairly well i might add) while everyone cured, blm did dome light nuking.

How can I improve Barrage results :( I have as much RACC as I can afford right now. Archers x 2, Noct (not +1), Beetle +1 x 2.

Great Bow + Zamburak +1.

I have macroed in Sharpshot with Barrage for what its worth.

Kirsteena

08-15-2007, 03:11 AM

Where you can't get RACC get AGI. Make sure you have things like the merc cpt belt etc. Your RACC is always going to be fairly weak at low level. Upgrade to Hawkers? It isn't that much more than archers, but with a wee bit more RACC and AGI.

hongman

08-15-2007, 03:21 AM

Aha, yes, Merc Capt Belt. I did try to buy that, but when I it wouldnt sell at 3k above what it had been going for I left it. Stupid people trying to jack the price up >.>

Ill look over wiki at lunch for some decent upgrades, if any.

I really want a PCC :( no way I can afford it, and the rare/ex is another retarded 18-30hr, 50% pop of another NM + not 100% drop.

Hows your RNG coming along?

Kirsteena

08-15-2007, 03:32 AM

My rng is still at 20 - I spent all the past weekend meriting to get Elemental Magic capped out, then I've been busy helping with CoP, then dying in Limbus yesterday... I'm going to get some time to level it over the weekend though.

Don't sweat the PCC - it's not worth worrying about till you can genuinely afford it, and you are levelling other melee jobs above 37. Can I, however point out what is potentially a free piece of foot gear for Elvaan - you should have yours in storage. If you don't have leaping boots, use these.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/Kirsteena/MagnaMledelsens.jpg

Free AGI for Elvaan... Oh I sent you a PM on the ls forums that might help you. Oh, and you should be able to buy the MC Belt from Windy for double the CP, even though you Sandy.

Omni

08-15-2007, 09:07 AM

i actually wrote a lot but i realized that i think it would be pretty annoying for other readers to have to scroll past the blabber.

anyhow i just wanted to say that the lvl range in question in my previous posts is lv.50. delay of arbalest+1 is 280. musketeers is 582. so i can fire 2 shots per 1 for musketeers. you wont see the benefit of that 22 delay difference until i dunno the 10th shot or something.

what you were talking about was something more along the lines of o-bow vs hellfire. a completely whole different story. o-bow has the ability to put out respectable numbers while adding status to the mob (which is nothing like its weaker counter-parts in lvl ranges before it) but, that wasnt my point. my point is about lv. 50-60. xbow vs gun. in this lvl, i feel if u miss out on musketeers (+1/+2 one of the best gun delays around) and the introduction of silver bullets so you can use a weak xbow, the benefits of acids just dont convince me.

taru edit: hongman- u dont need a pcc. you'll have so much rng acc. out your wazoo that that extra 5 rng acc wont mean anything later on. personally, rng atk items interest me more. and the ranger's necklace you get from unlocking rng is awesome and FREE!

using sharpshot with barrage is a good way to go. it's what i do. remember that the number of arrows/bolts/bullets you can use up during a barrage differs as you lvl up. Read here (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Barrage)

hongman

08-15-2007, 09:23 AM

Thanks.

Yup, I have my RSE in storage, Ill have to gte it out I when I next lvl.

ANd thanks for the PCC tip, felt a bit gimp without it but looks like its not *all* that.

I just want to see my 1k Sidewinders :)

EDIT: These CP Bullets/Arrows - I should be saving for these right?

Kirst, fancy doing KV with me for a Heavy Shell each? :P

Kirsteena

08-15-2007, 10:30 AM

KV has killed me way too many times over the last few months, so I'll pass...

Omni

08-15-2007, 12:37 PM

1k sidewinders wont come until later on. you wont see 1k right away but you'll definitely be relieved at not having to use flaming/piercing shot anymore.

When you first get sidewinder, try to let it go ~150% tp. its terribly inaccurate even times when using sushi and a crapload of rng acc gear.

If you have the CP for the PPA and GMB then get them. You can only use them with Unlimited shot. well, not -only- but if you dont like throwing away 30000-48000CP then, make sure you have unlimited shot UP AND you switch out PPA/GMB after you ws.

Also, unlimited shot and barrage dont stack. so dont use them together or you'll lose ur rare.ex ammo.

I've lost a few already that I dont even bother with it anymore. :(

Malacite

08-15-2007, 01:53 PM

That's too bad really... free barrage would be sweet.

@. @ now if only SE had let RNG merit barrage instead of scavenge, gun users everywhere would had a collective joygasm.

hongman

08-16-2007, 02:43 AM

ROFL @ joygasm

And thank for the tip on Unlimited Shot + Barrage :p If I threw away all that CP i'd most probably commit virtual suidcide. It'll take me 2 75 jobs to get that many CP....

I dumped a merit into Archery. So I should get Sidewinder 1 lvl early. That merit was going into Marksy for THF, but seeming as I cant even merit Marksy on RDM, I thought it would help out more on Archery.

Also, prostotuted my mule for some cash and sent it to my main, currently have as gear, for lvl 32:

Archers x 2 (Will upgrade to Hawkers tonight)
Zamburak +1 / Great Bow / Pirate's Gun
Emp pin
Rangers Necklace
Beetle Earring +1 x2
Beetle Ring +1 x2
Noct body +1
Noct Legs +1
Noct hands +1
RSE Feet
Merc. Capt. Belt
Travelers Mantle

Most of that stuff lasts till AF, so I believe.

Kirsteena

08-16-2007, 03:13 AM

You will have to stop and farm, but yeah, most of it should last a long time. You'll have to upgrade Ears and Rings more than anything else, but yeah.

Was that link helpful?

hongman

08-16-2007, 04:12 AM

Yes, thanks. Spent ages reading it. Thats what pushed me to get the +1 Noct, seeming as I'm taking Ranger past sub levels.

Omgwtfbbqkitten

08-16-2007, 05:48 AM

Yes, thanks. Spent ages reading it. Thats what pushed me to get the +1 Noct, seeming as I'm taking Ranger past sub levels.

Keep the set on your mule for the future, it will serve you well for CoPs and BCNMs. You'll get a lot more milage out of that set than most other low level armor in the game. For RNG and COR specifically, that set is good almost all the way to AF. There are a few nice conquest pieces from each nation, too, but more for COR than RNG.

Pahluwan Legs, Deadeye gloves pretty much beat out thier respective AF slots by 55-61, too, so I wouldn't get too attached to those pieces. RNG AF hands will always be good for Shadowbind, though.

Kirsteena

08-16-2007, 05:51 AM

Very true, I wish rdm had a set as damn useful as that.

Omgwtfbbqkitten

08-16-2007, 05:55 AM

RDM and melee got boned on the CoP low level sets. WHM, BLM, SMN, COR, RNG all came out big winners in that regard.

I think picking RDM back up during COPs was the most painful experience ever after enjoying levelling BLM with the Seer's set. The +hMP on the set was just godly for its level and even at high levels I see BLMs still use some of it in /rest macros.

hongman

08-16-2007, 06:03 AM

I need yet another mule :/

I was kinda avoiding thinking of Assault pieces....Im still PSC.....

Im hope RNG AF isnt going to as painful for me now as it was when I did RDM :P Back in those days when I knew 1 75 player who had the time to help me, when I was still struggling to find a decent LS...I can prob solo most of it on RDM now.

I'll settle for 3 75 jobs, seeming as RNG is hella fun and THF is going to be in a static. Christ knows what Ill do for space. My entire Mog Locker is dedicated to RDM gear, and thats constantly 80/80, and I havent even finished yet.

Wish they made more sets storable, or even let you rent out more space via an NPC....though that is for another discussion :)

Malacite

08-16-2007, 09:13 AM

Well so much for THF XD

hongman

08-16-2007, 09:18 AM

THF static starts this Sunday, not sure how well it will pan out...a few people in there (ok, 2) I dont think are reliable but they may surprise me.

Iv actually lost interest in THF temporarily but Im guessing that once I suit up and get going it will return, nothing does that best than exping with some great friends.

hongman

08-20-2007, 05:01 AM

RNG39

Bow dmg is really sucky right now, cant wait for 3k tnl for Battle Bow +1.

Also, Acc wise, I found that I can reliably hit VT-IT mobs without food. Weird.

Malacite

08-20-2007, 09:01 AM

RNG39

Bow dmg is really sucky right now, cant wait for 3k tnl for Battle Bow +1.

Also, Acc wise, I found that I can reliably hit VT-IT mobs without food. Weird.

You also get access to Scorpion Arrows next level. And you should be hitting with little trouble, given all the +accuracy traits RNG gets and access to good +ranged acc gear (mostly rings)

hongman

08-20-2007, 09:07 AM

Yup.

Cant wait. Although Bahamut has some serious Scorpion Arrow shortages.

I am actually slowly lvling WW to make my own ammo, its the only way to go.

Omgwtfbbqkitten

08-20-2007, 09:08 AM

Yeah, ranged attackers get access to oodles and oodles of ranged accuracy gear, its just all over. The bone-type rings are a big and cheap source of that accuracy. Then there's stuff like the Archer's Knives, Trailer's Kukri, PCC, Fransisca, Noct Set, AF Body, Jaridah armor, Pahluwan armor... just lots of it out there and easy to get.

Combined with the Accuracy Bonus traits (of which you get your last at 70), you'll actually be able to drop some of this gear for a STR/Attack build later on.

And just as a side note to that there are some, shall we say, misinformed RNGs that say you can really only tap /WAR at 70+ because of the final accuracy traits at that level. You can sub /WAR for better damage now if you wanted to, its just a matter of watching your hate. /SAM won't even begin to pick up until 50 due to the placement of Hasso.

Spider-Dan

08-21-2007, 01:55 PM

Hasso is utterly meaningless for RNG; the only time you can use Hasso is when wielding a weapon that we have no native skill in, which immediately cancels out the haste and +accuracy. The STR bonus on Hasso barely makes up for the STR you lose by switching from /WAR to /SAM in the first place.

/SAM isn't useful until LV60.

Omgwtfbbqkitten

08-21-2007, 02:25 PM

I was more referring to Meditate + Hasso. Hasso is largely margina overall, you lose Attack Bonus and Berzerk by passing up /WAR for /SAM and only get marginal STR in return, but its still something. SAM is more about the TP returns and, eventually, Siegan as an evasion alternative to /NIN.

WAR is your best offensive sub, NIN is your best defensive/accuracy sub. SAM sits right in the middle, building up more TP for the lack of attack and Seigan for the absence of shadows.

Omni

08-21-2007, 02:50 PM

If you are going to 'get atleast something' with hasso, you might as well /war.

unless you dont have /war leveled, save /sam until 60+. it doesnt become the 'middle' sub until then.

Omgwtfbbqkitten

08-21-2007, 02:58 PM

Forgot Meditate was 30. Bah, my bad. SAM is probably the most damn boring subjob I've had to endure. The abilities are just too spread out for my liking. I'd like to forget I ever levelled other melee jobs for subs. I'm too wired on jobs that constantly move.

Kirsteena

08-22-2007, 12:32 AM

hongman

08-22-2007, 01:42 AM

Ding 41.

Went 39-41 in Gustav. Interesting experience...

Firstly we had a PLD that didnt like to be hit and shortly disbanded. ANother one for the blist.

When we finally get going the XP is great. Bow dmg at 40 with Battle Bow +1 and Scorps really picked up - over 100 per shot, about 115 on the "sweet spot". Topped my highest Barrage as /nin so far at 480something (I had Warcry on me...wonder how much diff that made).

Now I dinged 41, I can get my first AF, Sniper Bow.

And jesus, Hot Shot and Flaming Arrow are really getting old -.-

Omgwtfbbqkitten

08-22-2007, 02:20 AM

We have a rng in the ls who only has /sam. Then complains about how his smn does more damage overall. I did try and point out that levelling war and nin might be an idea at some point, but - there we go. He is levelling sam with /rng only as well...

Me, I'm levelling all subs for sam before I even start it!

Subs are a chore for me since I run two characters. I'd like to finish DRG on the Taru someday, but that means finishing off a second set of SAM and THF subjobs and, well, screw that for the time being. I need /SAM of RNG and /THF for BLU and then /BLU and /RDM for COR. If I leave all the /THF and /SAM jobs to Kitten, Foobar just needs a /NIN sub for his BST and BRD.

I'm just gonna finish subs on Kitten and see what WotG holds for my taru job-wise, not gonna pound my brains out to have all subs on both characters.

hongman

08-22-2007, 03:12 AM

Ok, quicky:

Which should I use in EXP?

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/images/d/dd/Battle_bow_-1.jpg

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/images/9/92/SnipingBow.jpg

Not sure how these weigh against each other...

I would say BB+1. AGI+4 on AF = RACC +2 which BB+1 has anyway, but BB=1 also offers RATK+15.

Just higher delay.

Kirsteena

08-22-2007, 03:23 AM

Honestly. Sniping bow is storage +1...

hongman

08-22-2007, 03:38 AM

Bit like RDM's AF1 then -.-;;

Kirsteena

08-22-2007, 03:50 AM

And most of the other AF1 weapons. Have you seen the blm one? MP+20 go go go...

And Kitten, with that many subs, I would be pretty much the same =) it was bad enough getting all the ones for rdm, and I still haven't even looked at blu!

Sevv

08-22-2007, 05:06 AM

I got my rng af bow and dropped it on the spot. Hey hong Gl on o bow it is why I don't level my ranger any more, 0/25!!! 24 of those i have soloed as nin/rdm... /sigh back to camping that damn goblin.

hongman

08-22-2007, 05:18 AM

Iv camped that sucker 4 times, and only seen 1 pop - for which we didnt get drop (this was for a friend).

The pop window is such that having a ToD is nearly useless. Just hit and hope.

I'll solo it as RDM/NIN, though it would be nice for some company in those lonely hours. Prob wont bother till I'm at least 55 though, which could be forever.

As soon as I have passed the 37 mark, looking for a PT is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Not enough people even flagged up to make a party. Just gotta hope for an invite from a rep :/

Sevv

08-22-2007, 07:00 AM

kujata usually has about a party worth of people seeking in those levels at some points 2 parties worth not always leet parties but enough to make progress which is nice.

Dymlos

08-22-2007, 07:14 AM

Don't forget hong, most AF1s are garbage. The only good AF1 I know of is SAM's AF1.

hongman

08-22-2007, 08:18 AM

I wouldnt know, I only currently own 1 set of AF :P

Omni

08-22-2007, 08:38 AM

Hot Shot and Flaming Arrow are really getting old -.-

tough it out and you'll epeen all you want once you get to 55. it's worth it.

hongman

08-22-2007, 08:41 AM

54.

I merited Archery. :thumbsup:

Omgwtfbbqkitten

08-22-2007, 09:06 AM

Don't forget hong, most AF1s are garbage. The only good AF1 I know of is SAM's AF1.

COR and BST AF1s are all rather solid. Trump Gun would last you from 40 to 56. Barbaroi gets about 8 levels of milage but then, when you're soloing no one can really call you on what your gear is because they're not around.

You can solo in Site Riverne #0A1 as BST at 40, people will think you're crazy just for that.

Tenkia

08-22-2007, 02:47 PM

[System Message: You are not allowed to post URLs as you have not yet contributed sufficiently. Please try again at a later time.]

edit: wtf, all I did is hit the smiley face button x.x

massaranger

08-22-2007, 03:03 PM

Blah

Omni

08-22-2007, 03:37 PM

tenkia: if you havent posted much, the board doesnt allow you to post links until you've made a certain amount of contributions to the forums.

it prevents spammers from created users and spamming the boards with lameness or ppl posting useless things. like 1 word replies...

hongman

09-05-2007, 05:23 AM

Im stuck at 48 :(

Anytime I look to see what's on *literally, most nights, throughout the night*, I have a handful of DD, maybe a mage if I'm lucky. NEVER any tanks!

I even got invited to a pt where a SAM thought he could tank the exp mobs, and I actually STAYED longer than I usualy would just for some exp.

/sigh

SE really needs to create more tanking jobs. Or make people able to cap their own levels. Something, anythinng.

Sevv

09-05-2007, 05:43 AM

Im stuck at 48 :(
NEVER any tanks!

I told you to move to kujata >.>

Cometgreen

09-05-2007, 03:49 PM

I even got invited to a pt where a SAM thought he could tank the exp mobs, and I actually STAYED longer than I usualy would just for some exp
I got my lvl 55 in Kuftal with Dragoons as tanks. Eventually we had a MNK that took over the tanking duties. I was in the party for at least four hours (probably more), and we cycled through quite a few people, never getting any real tanks.

It was actually kinda fun.

hongman

09-06-2007, 02:18 AM

I got my lvl 55 in Kuftal with Dragoons as tanks. Eventually we had a MNK that took over the tanking duties. I was in the party for at least four hours (probably more), and we cycled through quite a few people, never getting any real tanks.

It was actually kinda fun.

Granted, these setups can work depending on mob/job/gear/abilities/support. But mine havent >.>

WHM's just that warp mid-fight and then disband, that the kind of quality player I am experiencing.

Kinda like the drg/war drg/war drg/sam nin/war rng/war rdm/whm meripo yesterday.

Fail. Dymlos was the RNG, it was cool to meet him in-game, but dear lord, how can everyone expect a nin keep proper hate on Penta spamming drg's with DD subs? I was throwing C4's non-stop, pretty pointless. Had to disband in the end, was asking for a wipe. This is on Mamools btw.

Dymlos

09-06-2007, 05:42 AM

Gawd tell me about it. I died twice both from pulling. I know I should have gone /NIN but how the hell am I suppose to keep up dmg when 2handers right now are overpowered? I still question how I was able to get hate when a 800 Sidewinder when we had those x3 DRG spamming Penta thrust.

I can't wait till the 2handers damage is normalized. It's too powerful and before you 2handers tell me it isn't it is! You shouldn't be doing 1000 dmg per swing on xp mobs. Hell, even my friends Tildaor and Gryfalcon agree that it needs to be toned down and they're both 75 SAMs!

I still question why they wanted invite me anyways, after all RNGs are now lolRNGs in terms of damage compared to 2handers. :(

Sevv

09-06-2007, 06:13 AM

Gawd tell me about it. I died twice both from pulling. I know I should have gone /NIN but how the hell am I suppose to keep up dmg when 2handers right now are overpowered? I still question how I was able to get hate when a 800 Sidewinder when we had those x3 DRG spamming Penta thrust.
I can't wait till the 2handers damage is normalized. It's too powerful and before you 2handers tell me it isn't it is! You shouldn't be doing 1000 dmg per swing on xp mobs. Hell, even my friends Tildaor and Gryfalcon agree that it needs to be toned down and they're both 75 SAMs!
I still question why they wanted invite me anyways, after all RNGs are now lolRNGs in terms of damage compared to 2handers. :(

The dragoon weren't idiots and used high jump and super jump to shead hate.

Well geared dragoons could out parse ranger post nerf post "fix" easily.

hongman

09-06-2007, 09:30 AM

It was still cool to see you in game!!

Dymlos

09-06-2007, 09:39 AM

Well Bau, I'll most likely be taking a break from RNG until SE fixes RNG up for Wings (if they fix RNG up) and work on SAM again.

Sevv

09-06-2007, 10:22 AM

Well Bau, I'll most likely be taking a break from RNG until SE fixes RNG up for Wings (if they fix RNG up) and work on SAM again.

Ranger isn't broken god /facepalm, you are worse then my friends that I made the god is a two hander pic.

Malacite

09-06-2007, 10:49 AM

RNG IS broken though. Has been for some time.

It's still the top DD, but the gap has been steadily closing with DRG actually out damaging it in merits now. Aside from X-bow utility and Guns on HNMs, the job doesn't give much reason to spend the money on it anymore unless you really enjoy shooting stuff (which I do, but not for the money it costs. Not when I'm only going to be marginally stronger than a DRK)

Sevv

09-06-2007, 10:53 AM

Omgwtfbbqkitten

09-06-2007, 11:05 AM

Well barded dragoons could out parse ranger post nerf post "fix" easily.

fixed.

Sevv

09-06-2007, 11:08 AM

fixed.

So it always has to have a brd, just keep stroking the epeen Kitten. Never could be that a loldrg could rape a rng in parse... funny tho that is what the rng said pre-party, made my day shutting her mouth =D

Omgwtfbbqkitten

09-06-2007, 11:23 AM

So it always has to have a brd, just keep stroking the epeen Kitten. Never could be that a loldrg could rape a rng in parse... funny tho that is what the rng said pre-party, made my day shutting her mouth =D

Was there a BRD or not? Hm?

Sevv

09-06-2007, 11:30 AM

Was there a BRD or not? Hm?

Back in the days of loldrg you think we would have a brd?

No brd btw if you couldn't understand.

Malacite

09-06-2007, 04:22 PM

malacite i out damage rangers on my drg before the buffs, not shitty geared rangers either.

Ranger got overly nerfed because of no damage cap then was hurt for awhile no is balanced with most of the jobs pre the 2h boost, which is probably going to be reduced. Why must it be rng> drg tho?

Not just DRG, but all other physical DD because RNG pay money. It's a frustrating concept, but as long as a job has to pay for it's performance it should get ample returns.

Dymlos

09-06-2007, 05:52 PM

If anything, RNGs are the one who hurts more in the DD department just for the fact that Haste doesn't affect ranged attacks. Do you know how much it sucks that you guys get all that haste gear while all we get is a lol6% haste? Our DoT could be so much better if we got haste. Hell, I'd be happy in SE increased Snapshot's haste % to 5% per merit instead of 2%.

Mal's right, RNG performs only as wel as the RNG has gil in his pocket. w/o gil we're nothing more than Lv 1 THFs with knives.

Malacite

09-06-2007, 06:08 PM

It would have been a lot better if SE had simply made different ranged weapons with various effects rather than different ammo types.

This would cut down the costs of the job considerably and make it a lot easier to level the playing field. It wouldn't be realistic, and it'd mean a few less items in the consumables market (they'd also have to change TP loss for weapon swaps ><) but would probably still be better.

I'm not saying RNG should be completely uncontested in all situations (though to be fair, guns > all other weapons) but nor should there be only a marginal gap either.

It's a real bitch to balance, and primarily because money is major factor in RNG's performance. And the same goes double for NIN. Money holds that job back from being an insane DD - _ - (I dare someone to EXP regularly on NIN/BLM and tell me it's not an issue)

Dymlos

09-06-2007, 06:47 PM

If money wasn't such a huge problem for me, I'd be using Kabura Arrows instead of just using Scorps and swapping in higher arrows for WS dmg.

Malacite

09-06-2007, 07:20 PM

? There's a higher arrow than kaburra now? (other than PPA I mean?)

Omgwtfbbqkitten

09-06-2007, 07:51 PM

If money wasn't such a huge problem for me, I'd be using Kabura Arrows instead of just using Scorps and swapping in higher arrows for WS dmg.

Why not use Marids? I know they don't quiver (thanks SE), but much cheaper than Kabura and only 2 DMG less. When I was tight on cash I'd TP Demon Arrows and WS Marid Arrows.

These days I stockpile ammo way in advance. My COR sees more action than my RNG, but burns ammo much more slowly thanks to the luxury of having a Joyeuse in melee PTs and also being a welcome invite ot manaburns. I don't even use Steel or Iron bullets for a manaburn since I just help pull, i use the level 22 bullets.

Now, If I had a K Club on RNG, damn I'd abuse the hell out of that thing just for the savings, it would be right up there with my COR on gil efficiency. You can bet I'll be sending poor little Foobar the BST to Up in Arms many, many times.