Tinkering with RDM/RNG

[Callisto]

Yesterday I was just killing time while camping the Kard NM(I got it although the damn thing nearly killed me!), and I was shooting arrows at some Easy Prey gobbies. I hit one that put me up to 175 Archery, and I learned Sidewinder. I haven't had capped Archery on my RDM since about level 60, I used to use it alot in PvP(noone expects a Sleep Arrow to come from a RDM ;) ), but I've been wanting to cap it out forever. So after leaving Onzozo, I said why not, and switched to /RNG, and put together a RAcc set. Here's what I came up with:

Fire Staff
Expunger(Still locked)
Horn Arrows
Optical Hat
Spectacles
Hollow Earring
Duelist's Tabard
Crimson Fng. Gauntlets
Coral Ring x2
Amemet Mantle

With this set I had +52 RAcc and +35 RAtk. The obvious skillup choice was worms, so I set out for Kuftal Tunnel. On Easy Prey Cave Worms I was doing about 58 per arrow, and about 400 per Sidewinder, Barrage did around 240~ if it hit full-on. This is with level 29 arrows and a bow that is locked at 26 DMG instead of the 39 you get when it's unlocked(I should've brought along my Lightning +1 to test it out).

After hitting 186 skill I went to Aydeewa Subterrane and started picking on DC Mold Eaters. The damage drop wasn't that large, went down to about 48~ per ranged attack and 380~ per Sidewinder.

Obviously this isn't something that I want to take to any kind of serious fight with my D Archery skill and all, but it is fun to play around with so far, and when the Expunger gets unlocked it seems like the damage will be pretty decent, maybe enough to make soloing Mold Eaters for xp buffer viable if I use better arrows. I am going to ask a few friends to come out and do Greater Colibri or Sea Puks with me once I get my skill about capped, just to see how it fares against VT mobs. The only sucky part is that worms only go up to about level 71, so I'll have to find some kind of skillup party to cap out the last 10 skill levels or so.

Anyways, that's my experiences so far with it.

[Mhurron]

How long did it take you to go from 175 to 186? I've set out to level my archery before but a 3 hour session yielded so few skillups I never stick with it.

I always tried to find something that would have been 5-7 levels over my skill level.

[Callisto]

It took me about 90 minutes for those 11 levels on the Kuftal worms, the skillups were great, the only issue was the Air Elementals popping right in the middle of the worms at times, I had to sit and wait out the weather for a bit at one point. Using Barrage every time it was up helped alot too, there were times I was getting up to 3 .2 skillups per Barrage.

185-186 can take a bit b/c of the level swing on the worms, I would recommend heading for Aydeewa at 185. I'm not sure how high Aydeewa will take me, but I'll find that out tonight.

I also recommend Pumpkin Soup, nice cheap 3h racc food.

[Tokitoki]

Not to put down the idea, but wouldn't you be better off soloing normally? I mean we all know RDM has a good solo ability as well as endurace. Wouldn't the exp be better doing a normal solo routine than using a bow?

[Callisto]

Yes RDM has the endurance to solo these mobs easily, what I want to test though is if the killspeed on these DC worms will be faster than if I were to solo them outright, because RDM doesn't exactly kill quickly. With an unlocked Expunger and decent arrows, I think that I might be able to do more damage w/ Archery than Sword, but I won't know until I test it. Soloing the worms like this would be nice as well, since you don't really need to cast anything past Refresh/Blink/Stoneskin/Barstone, compared to a normal full buff cycle it's much less time spent casting and more doing damage. Since you keep the worms silenced and they can't follow you, you aren't taking any damage. This equates to 0 downtime between fights, so if you can kill faster than you could normally it may be worth looking into.

The main reason I'm doing this is just to cap out the skill, it bothers me not seeing blue numbers in my combat skill area, and I usually use arrows to pull as RDM/DRK when there isn't much competition in the camp; both to save MP and so I'm not dodging spells on the way back from pulling Greater Colibri. If I can actually hit them on the pull and get an extra 12 TP out of the pull that'd be nice, and if accurate enough I could use sleep arrows to hold them on deck so that I'm not dodging Sleep 2 casts when they wake up.

If I can find a decent way to solo while doing this, then that's just a bonus. Also, this could serve practical applications for doing various Leujaoam Sanctum assaults where you need to knock down worms, when I try to melee during Leujaoam Cleansing as RDM I usually either take more damage than I'd like to from Tremors, or get hit w/ Acc Down from Sandspin, both of which would be nice to avoid. At any rate, it's just a job combo I'm toying with since I haven't seen many people post info about using it.

[tdh]

I've done this myself, but I went the route of Sleep ammo. (Had to do the same thing for DRK.) I started out at Skill Lv.90 and just went to the CNest as /NIN with dual Archers, other random RngAcc gear which I think I got up to about RngAcc+60, and Sleep Bolts. They were great for Skill because of their low damage, and I went after Robber Crabs.

When I was about Skill Lv.165, I switched to /RNG to have access to quicker skills with Barrage & be able to Sidewinder as soon as I learned it. (/RNG Acc bonuses should provide RngAcc+22, so the lose of the 2nd Archers wasn't noticed.) With the crap damage on Sleep Arrows, and reduced damage on the Expunger, I was still able to do about 250~300dmg per Sidewinder.

I'll have to see if I can find some DC to EM Worms to cap out the skill and do some decent soloing. Worms would be a piece of cake. Keep them Silenced, and just fire away. RDM can use both Demon & Kabura arrows, since there's no issue of hate, could go with the highest damage Arrow if our gil purse can handle it.

[Callisto]

The highest level worms I can find are the Mold Eaters in Aydeewa, they con DC to a 75, I want to say they're about level 71. If you had the money for Kabura Arrows, you'd probably destroy worms with the addt'l effect silence. I'm not looking to spend that much money on this, but I will make myself some Ice Arrows when I get around to it and see how the damage is. The hard part is going to be unlocking the damn Expunger XD. In 3 hours last night I probably fired off maybe 40 or 50 WS'.

I'm a little broke at the moment and having a hard time finding income, so it'll be a bit before I can afford to test this with good arrows, but I'll post what I find. I'd recommend bringing your fellowship npc for Silena and some echo drops along for the Mold Eaters, they Kuftal worms weren't able to land Sound Vacuum on me, but the MEs did every time I ran in to WS and it lasts freaking forever.

[tdh]

I'll keep that in mind Callisto. I'm a little cash poor right now too. Haven't had the time to really do any farming so my only real source of income is selling Gold Imp. Coins. (I have a Dst. Scythe +1 I've been trying to sell for 3 months now, and I guess the economy's so fried nobody splurges on nice weapons any more.)

I do have a Woodworking Lv.100+ friend, who I'm sure could crank out some arrows for me if I grabbed the materials. That may help with the pain of the gil, but it sounds like something that'd be fun. With out testing, and the locked Expunger, I'm pretty sure we could deal more damage than a Sword with any Lv.40+ arrow. Have the next 3 days off, may borrow a friend's PCC & Acc+10 rings for a few hours and go at this. If I can drop a DC mob pretty quick, and move onto the next one quick with no downtime, it's far more time efficient than meleeing anything.

If I get around to it, I'll post my findings as well. (Been trying to solo my Pick of Trials & testing out Dark Magic Skill. I may have to drop an update into Taskmage's old Drain & MAB post here soon. Starting to notice something interesting.)

[Callisto]

Ok, I played around with this a bit more last night. I was able to get Archery to 201 before the skillups dried in Aydeewa. As far as I know these are the highest level non-NM worms in the game, so I guess you need to either find a EM-T and use sleep arrows or join a skillup party for the final 8-9 levels.

As far is whether or not soloing these DCs would be a viable solo xp option with an unlocked Expunger, good arrows, and capped skill...so far I have to lean towards no, for one main reason: Gastric Bomb. The Attack Down effect from this move is huge, it kills your damage output by about 60% and affects RAtk as well as Atk. The effect lasts for several minutes, sometimes 5+, in which time you lose out on a boatload of damage. Bio and Poison do help speed up the kills alot, and maybe with the Expunger + good arrows you may be able to still pump out decent damage even with Gastric Bomb on, but the effect is pretty killer.

That said, I do still believe Archery for RDM does have some practical applications(note that I differentiate the regular use of Archery from actually going RDM/RNG). I do think that with capped skill and a fast RAcc gear swap macro, Sleep Arrows would be a viable pulling tool, especially on Greater Colibri and Sea Puks, where you don't always want to pull with a spell. I know I probably spend more time as a dedicated puller than most other RDMs, but still if you're put in the position, I don't think that having the skill available would hurt at all.

I'm going to stock up on loads of wooden arrows until I break the Expunger, once it's done I'll invest in a stack of Demon or Kabura and see what the damage is like. I also have a friend who is going to DRG tank some puks for me while I shoot at them to see if my RAcc+ will be enough to make up for the low skill cap. I'll let ya know what I find.

[Mhurron]

I do still believe Archery for RDM does have some practical applications
Yes, you could probably find a way to use it in a Merit situation, but personally just doing something different is a good practical use.

[WishMaster3K]

Pulling, yeah, I agree 100%.

Our skill is worse than THFs Marksmanship.. but who knows.

It's pretty surprising in Ballista, I'll tell you that for sure.

[Callisto]

It's pretty surprising in Ballista, I'll tell you that for sure.

Haha, this was originally why I had capped Archery back at level 60, it was a pretty good suprise attack. I would be trying to run down a Taru BLM, they'd bind me and think that they were getting away...then I'd pop them with a sleep arrow, and keep spamming them until Bind wore. I got a MNK right as he used Hundred Fists once too, that one pissed him off pretty well. :biggrin:

Side note: If I would have known that capping out my skill would have been this easy, I would have done this ages ago. I spent a total of maybe 4 hours, and only 8 stacks of arrows, and went from 175-201 in 2 skillup sessions.

[Callisto]

Spent some more time on my Expunger last night, I believe it's very close to breaking now. Although the worms may not be as good as solo as I originally hope, I'm going to try this out on DC Coblibri next. You may still need to use the full buff cycle to fight them outright, but I believe Sidewinder will beat out any other WS once the Expunger is unlocked. A friend was helping me work on latent last night, and on the EP Colibri and Spiders outside of town I was doing 390~(birds) and 320~(bugs) Sidewinders with wooden arrows. The damage # was very consistent, and I only missed about 2 the entire night. 390 is only about 200 below my average Vorpal Blade when fighting the same mobs. Unlocked and with decent arrows, I'm guessing Sidewinder damage should about double, I'll be going from 26+5 to 39+24 base damage when I unlock Expunger and switch to scorpion arrows.

Basically my solo idea would be to play RDM/RNG about the same as COR, melee for TP w/ Joyeuse, then fire off Sidewinders when full. I think I could do 800 per to a DC Colibri, that's just an estimate though, I'll post actual results as soon as I break the bow.

Side note: Breaking latents sucks ass. Once Expunger is done, I just got my Dagger of Trials, after that's done I have to get COR up to 72 and get started on my Coffinmaker. Going to be at this for awhile; ;

[Cotners]

Just a thought, but duoing with a BLM/WHM could be pretty fun on those worms. Gravity and Fast Cast aren't an issue on worms, and being /whm could Erase Gastric Bomb and Silena Sound Vacuum. Wouldn't be very good exp but fun none-the-less and probably easily chainable with the amount of worms in Aydeewa Subterrain (sp?)

[Callisto]

In the last few days, my little experiment here has gone from 'Is Archery a viable pulling option for RDM in merit parties?" to "Which will happen first: The Expunger latent breaking or Callisto using his /wrists macro?".

I've been at this for what seems like forever, and still it doesn't seem that the latent is broken. I'm assuming there will be a noticeable jump in damage when the base D goes from 26 to 39, and so far my Sidewinders still do the same 340-370 to AU Attercops. I've been sticking to those since A) every other mob in the area seems to have a TP reset move and B) it makes a nice control to be able to tell when the latent wears. So, needless to say, I can't really do a decent test as to whether or not I can actually do damage as RDM/RNG.

However, as the main point of this is to see if I can effectively hit VT mobs(specifically Greater Colibri) with Sleep Arrows, I have done some other research on the side:

RDM Archery is a D skill, capping at 210 @ level 75. SAM is a C+, capping at 230. With merits, RDM can reach 226 skill, effectively putting it between a C and a C+. I have yet to party with a SAM/RNG in meripo, but I have at lower levels(60~), and I noticed that they didn't have a ton of trouble hitting xp mobs with arrows when equipped for a decent RAcc boost.

I found some Crimson Greaves in storage(forgot I had them), and for the sake of pulling would probably want an agi/eva boost, so my proposed pulling set will come out to this:

Wind Staff
Expunger
Sleep Arrows
Optical Hat
Spectacles
Hollow Earring
Duelist's Tabard
Crimson Fgr. Gauntlets
Coral Ring x2
Crimson Greaves

I probably could find a couple of more pieces that would help, but I needed to draw a line in terms of how much crap I can carry on me at one time and what will fit in my current macro structure, so this set comes out with a line of: RAcc +62 AGI + 11 Evasion +20. I would probably use MP food and /DRK(in case competition moves in, which always happens on Greater Colibri, I still want to be able to make fast pulls, I'm going to try and save for a Lamia Kaman +1 if the experiment goes well). +62 RAcc even seems slightly excessive to me, so I may leave one Coral Ring off in favor of my Tamas, and possibly use sushi.

Side note: They really need to make some sort of mage sushi, something that gives like 30 mp, 5 DEX and MND or INT, and the normal sushi acc/racc boosts. Would be lovely for RDM and probably BLU.

I'm going to bring my RAcc set to Dynamis tonight and see if I can actually hit some Orcs in there(I still need 9 levels of skillups). If I can even hit anything in there I think that'll be a good sign that this may work out well for meripo. Let me know if any of you other RDMs try out the merit pulling like this and whether or not it worked out for you.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Breaking the latent on ranged weapon will take a bit longer than other weapons. Expunger is basically the Bow equivelant of Coffinmaker, so you should see a difference when it does break.

As far as gear goes, I'd go with Paluwhan Body over Tabard.

[Callisto]

As far as gear goes, I'd go with Paluwhan Body over Tabard.

Working towards that for my COR as well. And yeah, the latent thing is killing me. As soon as I finish Expunger I have to start Dagger of Trials, I'm starting COR back up next week so I'll probably have to do my Coffinmaker soon, and then Gun of Trials after that. At least with Coffinmaker/GoT I could feasibly use them in xp without most people even noticing, but I'm pretty sure if I show up to meripo as RDM/RNG spamming Sidewinders somebody is going to pitch a bitch about it. :cry:

[tdh]

Y'know, I never thought about using Dynamis to skill Archery. There are times where I'm not doing much while waiting for somebody to Refresh or cast Phalanx II on. Firing an arrow or two per mob would be a way to spend the time. I wouldn't sub /RNG but I could dump on some decent RngAcc gear and still land my shots.

I usually get to use Dynamis as a means to skill Healing Magic, and that's about it.

[Callisto]

I didn't get a chance to bring my RAcc set to Dynamis as I had to be the ls bank last night and hold coins, but my Expunger did finally break! With horn arrows I did about 70~ per RAtk to the Attercops, 500~ per Sidewinder. Sidewinder is much more consistent than Vorpal or Savage, and using Joyeuse for TP I believe I do kill EPs slightly faster than using /DRK or /WAR, but the stat boosts, JAs, and utility spells still make them preferred soloing subs at the moment. I'll pick up a stack of Demon Arrows tonight and see how it changes things. On Saturday I hope to get a merit party so I can test hitting VTs with sleep arrows, until then I have to start dagger of trials and hopefully get a Besieged or something to cap out my Archery.

[Callisto]

Necroing my own thread! ^^;

Awhile back I had been playing with this, but I didn't really have the gear for it, and it's kind of hard to get people to come out for a messing-around meripo sometimes(although we did recently do an awesome one involving a DNC and a BLU/WAR bloodtank).

Problem 1 got solved thanks to leveling COR, forced me to get a Paluwhan body, Behemoth Rings, and a Light Gorget, as well as to become accustomed to TPing with Joyeuse then firing ranged attacks.

Problem 2 has now been solved thanks to Campaign Battle, where I can mess around with all kinds of stuff on low-evasion mobs! :thumbsup:

Anyways, I have no clue what got me in the mood to try something like this again, but I got the urge to and I had some free Tuna Sushi, so I went and nabbed some Demon Arrows. I was able to put together some reasonably decent sets:

Joyeuse
Genbu's Shield
Optical Hat
Spectacles
Hollow Earring
Loqacious Earring
Paluwhan Khazagand
Tarasque Mitts
Ruby Ring(would probably swap this to Garrulous Ring next time)
Woodsman Ring
Amemet Mantle +1
Potent Belt
Duelist's Tights
Ogre Ledlesens

Same as above, though switched in a few pieces:
Expunger
Demon Arrows
Light Gorget
Crimson Finger Gauntlets
Behemoth Ring(used 2 on my normal RAtks, but only 1+Light Gorget swapped in for Sidewinder)
Royal Knight's Belt(couldn't really find anything better than the +2 STR/AGI)
Crimson Greaves(I'm going to try using Rutter Sabatons or Heroic Boots for this next time, needs moar STR)

Luckily Campaign mobs evade like bricks, so I at least didn't have to put up with whiffing all of my Sidewinders(I actually didn't miss a single ranged attack all night). As expected, damage was somewhat low, considering I had minimal STR pieces(I'm going to work on getting Rutter Sabatons and Galliard Trousers at some point, Paluwhan pants would be better but I have to use all my tags for Nyzul Isle.) Sidewinder hit everything for about 400-450, Barrages did about 230~, and regular ranged attacks did 60~. While this is rather low in terms of DD, my Vorpal Blades as /DRK using Joyeuse really aren't any better, if not slightly worse when I miss a hit.

I really am hoping to get 2 things accomplished over the weekend, A) drag a BRD friend out to Campaign so I can try with Minuet on, and B) get someone to tank Colibri for me for a bit so that I can get my last 4 skill levels on Archery and see how hittable they are.

Mind you this is just something I do to mess around(kind of funny to get like 15 /checks in campaign when a RDM busts out Sidewinder), and I don't advocate it for party use in the slightest, although maybe it might find some use in Sea during kited fights or something, but you'd really have to go all out on gear.

It's pretty fun though, I played it the same as COR, except I didn't have to run and find a Sprite to save my life when I pulled hate. :wasted: