Tips for upcoming THF

[hongman]

Hi all

So, I'm levelling THF now. Currently lvl 16/17, subbed MNK so far using Sword.

Any tips for me, that I wouldnt otherwise find online on wiki etc?

The 1st "problem" I have found is working out my SA. I have a macro for Boost, /wait 2, SA.

Problem is, sometimes I swing before I can get my WS off >.> I guess this is just practice?

My Marksmanship is capped till skill 80 or so, using Acid Bolts (though I miss a lot on exp mobs, no RACC gear around this lvl). Blind bolts I find to wear very quickly with neglible difference. Blood and Sleep bolts I will use when I get access.

I can easily dump a merit into Dagger (which is like skill 230 from RDM) to get VB a tad earlier. Also have /NIN ready, /WAR as I progress. Emp pin ready, no boots.

Apart from that.... anything else Im missing?

Thanks

[Kirsteena]

There are r acc rings at 16 that aren't too pricy. Just remember to swap them out when not shooting. What food are you using? Rice dumplings are good at low level - in fact through till about 40.

HP +17
Strength +3
Vitality +2
Agility +1
Attack +20% (Cap: 45@225 Base Attack)
Ranged Attack +30% (Cap: 45@150 Base Ranged Attack)
HP Recovered While Healing +2
MP Recovered While Healing +2
Accuracy +5
Resist Paralyze

I went h2h until 24 when I swapped to /nin - SA Combo is godly at lowbie level (though you will be tanking afterwards).

/wait 1 between boost and SA - though you might be better with seperate macros to try and avoid the lag.

[hongman]

Ah I didnt realise there was RACC rings at 16, to be honest I havent done my homework past lvl 14, I ddint expect all those lvls from one pt.

Food wise, I am using Squid Sushi for the Dex +6, plus they are cheap right now. There is a % acc and racc as well but I guess that to be pretty low at this lvl.

Ill give Rice Dumps a go next pt I get. In fact I think I have a stack on a mule.

I tried wait 1 between boost and SA, but (lag?) I got the message Unable to use JA, so I went with 2. Would a wait 1 followed by Fast Blade any good, to avoid swing in between? I really do have to test these things >.> but I had to get to the KS99...

Also, would you recommend I use the +STR rings on normal attacks and swap to +DEX for SA, or just keep the DEX on full time?

[Kirsteena]

The benefits of sushi are fairly minimal at lowbie levels - that flat acc +5 will help you far more than the dex (iirc 2 dex = 1 acc).

If you are getting tied up with your JA, seperate the macros out - you will get used to learning how you react with firing them off.

Dex and str rings - urgh I dunno - my thf is only 27 itself, I'm pretty much going by what I have picked up for other jobs!

I was so spaced out on my meds last night, I paid no attention whatsoever to what was going on!

[hongman]

Well, I wasnt going for DEX on the Sushi for acc, it was to boost SA dmg, seeming as its modifier is DEX.

My Acc is crap anyway, so I thought rather than trying to boost my pitiful DoT, Id maximise my Spike.

[Shadowneko]

mostly at low levels you want to use DEX+(Sneak attack) and AGI+(Trick attack) to do better criticals and accuracy is allmost a non-issue untill lvl 40 or so. Also if you plan on using mosly sword to 33 I'd drop the /mnk sub and just lvl Warrior for the sub job.(mnk is only good if you plan on using Hand to Hand/claws)

I also reccomend skilling dagger right now rather than waiting unill you hit 33. I would use mostly sword as THF/war but swap in a good Dagger when I gained a lvl...just long enough to cap the skill. No one ever told me off for it and when I hit 33 I was good and ready with Viper Bite ^^

[Armando]

Do not touch Sushi. Bear in mind that it takes 2 Acc to raise your hit rate by 1%. You're probably not even getting 10 Acc out of Sushi right now. On the other hand meat dishes will always boost your Attack by 25%. It's that or Rice Dumplings.

+DEX is only for SA. Use Mighty Rings the rest of the time.

Alternate macro that shouldn't fail due to lag:
/ja Boost <stpc>
/ja "Sneak Attack" <stpc>
/ws "Fast Blade" <t>
All the goodness of keeping your abilities on separate macros, without the slight delays of activating each macro individually. Basically, that <stpc> means the macro can't move on to the next line 'til you confirm the target for the ability (in this case, yourself.) Can't remember if you'll need an <stnpc> on Fast Blade or not but I don't think so.

Regarding H2H: SA Combo is great damage but the DoT is low. Sword is all-around more efficient and it doesn't require a specific sub to function. This is a big plus because at 20 you can take advantage of /RNG or /DRG using a sword.

Daggers: The earliest you should use them is 25 if you get Federation Knife, on mandragoras in the jungles. Otherwise just hold out 'til 33 if that's what you prefer. As long as you have it capped for Lv.32 so that when you hit 33 you can use Viper Bite ASAP you'll be fine.

Tip for soloing: When doing Sleep Bolt -> Sneak Attack, don't forget you can run through the mob. Many people forget that. It's faster 9/10 times, especially if what you're fighting isn't Tarutaru-sized.

EDIT:Well, I wasnt going for DEX on the Sushi for acc, it was to boost SA dmg, seeming as its modifier is DEX.

My Acc is crap anyway, so I thought rather than trying to boost my pitiful DoT, Id maximise my Spike.Eep. No, no, no, no, no. All spike and no DoT makes a bad Thief. That and lolModifiers in general, it's crazy to pass up a huge Attack boost for a teaspoon of DEX.

[Wise Donkey]

If you are subbing MNK, use h2h, SA+Combo is amazing. If you want to stick with sword, just go /WAR. You can switch to /NIN at 24, but please do not do so sooner, you have no reason to be /NIN pre-Utsusemi, as you have Dagger skilled already.

The simplest way to fix your macro woes is to just separate them. You will learn to time hitting the next one based on the character animations.

Get some RAcc rings like Kirsteena suggested. Equip macros are a pain but can really put you on the next level as a THF.

Sushi is a waste at low levels. Acc should not be such a problem that you need it, and an Atk food like those Dumplings will give you a much more noticeable boost. +6 DEX will give you slightly better SA damage, but +Atk will help you on SA and your regular attacks too.

Putting a Merit into Dagger isn't a bad idea, but not necessary. I think it will only allow you to get it one level early, but if you have Merits to spend, why not?

And lastly - don't waste you time on +STR rings. They are not going to make a difference worth the trouble of having to macro in yet another set of rings. Just stick with +DEX rings as your base melee gear and macro in your +RAcc rings for your Marksmanship.

Just to give credit to my advice, I was a 52 THF before I left. I am on the path to start it once again, it is a great job. ^^

[Armando]

If you are subbing MNK, use h2h, SA+Combo is amazing. If you want to stick with sword, just go /WAR. You can switch to /NIN at 24, but please do not do so sooner, you have no reason to be /NIN pre-Utsusemi, as you have Dagger skilled already./WAR offers nothing offensively until 30, so he made the right choice in going /MNK for now. Also, /NIN is fine at 20, because a 10% Delay reduction is better than nothing, and close enough to /RNG and /DRG to warrant not having to stop to level one of them if he doesn't have them available.And lastly - don't waste you time on +STR rings. They are not going to make a difference worth the trouble of having to macro in yet another set of rings. Just stick with +DEX rings as your base melee gear and macro in your +RAcc rings for your Marksmanship.On the contrary, when you're using weapons with DMG that doesn't even exceed 20, and Delays that don't surpass 240, raising your DMG by even just 1 is a big deal. The best choice are Mighty Rings though. +2 STR and +10 Attack in your ring slots as early as level 14 is pure madness, even if it locks you out from using DEX rings.

[hongman]

Wow, a great deal of opinions here, some opposing others. :p

Just a few things to note, (not to sound unappreciative)

1. I already have sword and dagger well above cap (both like 230+)

2. I have /MNK and /WAR and /NIN readily available...I chose MNK to start off with becuase I thought the base STR would be ever so slightly more (admittedly, no real research)

3. I wont use H2H. I just dont like it, and from what Iv read, SA+Combo vs SA+Fast Blade are pretty much on par at the end of the day.

4. I probably will dump a merit into Dagger, I just love the thought of having access to VB if only 1 level earler. ^^

5. Gear swaps are also a non issue, even it it makes me only a "slightly" better thf. Im an RDM at heart, I blink more often than not!

Other than that, points taken, thanks, now I just need to visit the AH and get practicing!

[Malacite]

Sushi is OK if you're really trying to land acid bolts (you only have a C rank) and there are ranged accuracy rings available by the way. I suggest you pick up a pair of +1 bone rings and macro them in on ranged attacks, then macro back out to dex rings.

If you find you can't land hits enough with sword, use Jack-o'-Lanterns for food. +10 Accuracy and Evasion, -CHR (I forget how much. THF doesn't need CHR anyway) and Arcane Killer I believe.

Attack food is the better way to go in the lower levels I find. You should be using either grilled black hare (since you're using sword over dagger) or Roast/Juicy Mutton until about 30-31.



Oh, and the moment you hit 20 sub RNG. Dual-wielding is moot at those levels, and the +10 accuracy bonus is hard to beat.


As for landing SA+WS, take a swing at the mob, then immediately use boost and sneak attack, then WS manually. Or if you want it macroed:

Line1: /ja "Sneak Attack "<me>
Line2: /wait 1
Line3: /ws "Fast Blade" <t>

[Tokitoki]

There is no reason to eat sushi. A % based accuracy increase with skill in the 40s or 50s is not netting you enough to be worthwhile.

You'll get an extra 7 accuracy on Marksmanship and your melee attacks will be weak. The best bet is to still go with attack food.

Like stated, if you need a little accuracy then use Rice Dumplings. 5 accuracy and +20% attack (+30% rattk).

[711rocks]

Set a bunch of macros next to each other, and don't have anything in /p in them and you can SA WS 99% of the time without swinging. (That 1% is because idiot party members will at some point in your career spell-lock you-it's not your fault lol)
As for no /p, that allows you to hit the macro a million times to make sure it goes off. You'll notice more with TA, but if you hit a SA macro, then the TA macro too fast you may get "Unable to use job abilility"

Put them next to each other-say Alt 1= Boost, Alt 2= SA, Alt 3 = WS
Then when you want to WS, Hold Alt down and 1, then press 2 a bunch of times until you see SA goes off, then press 3 a bunch of times. When you get TA add that between SA and WS macros. If you have something like /p "Using Sneak Attack", your party will see you say "Using Sneak Attack" 7 times and get pissed.

[IfritnoItazura]

lol. What 711rocks says. No /wait in macros; you're a RDM, you're used to pressing whole bunch of them in a row anyway.

THF/MNK is meh-ish once you're in Lv.20-29 range (it's what I did, though. lol), in hindsight. I'd go THF/RNG for Accuracy Bonus, or THF/NIN for for dagger off-hand for better TP gain. Heck, even THF/DRG is a lot better than THF/MNK or THF/WAR in that range, I think. (SA stacks with Jump, BTW.)

Having done THF/MNK with Hand-to-Hand, I recommend against it now. Accuracy will be an issue, sooner or later.

[Malacite]

Yes THF/DRG is a good option too, especially if you want to take full advantage of using meat. I'd still go with /RNG though for the accuracy and ranged accuracy. Acid bolts are hard enough to land as it is.

[hongman]

Well, last night I went THF/WAR, Sword, Rice Dumplings. PT 1 and 2 were all nubs (War and monk asking if I had a spare weapon, lol) but PT 3 was a great success. PLD tank who I have seen around (maybe even meripo'ed with?) and turns out to be a great laugh.

Changed my macro to

/ja Sneak Attack
/wait 1
/ws "Fast Blade" <t>

Which worked a charm. Got 2 Balance Rings and 2 Bone +1, macroed respectively.

And it was really not bad. Went through seriously bad spells of missing bolts (like 10 in a row) but I couldnt expect much tbh.

I have also decided to go Dagger from 28, Ill be in the Jungles, Archer's looks real nice (esp if I am Dual Wielding) and Mandy's are weak to piercing I think.

Not got RNG levelled, and honestly, I think I'm ok with /WAR till 24. Not denying /RNG wouldnt be great but Im lazy - plus I have been offered to static my THF from 20 -> ?? , but we start this Sunday, so pushed for time as it is.

Overall - THF is fun! Not as boring as other auto-attack-go-watch-tv-and-hit-WS-macro jobs.

[hongman]

Just noticed THF has really high base INT, and AF has INT as well. What is this for? lolElementalWs?

Also, someone mentioned Jack'O's, but they carry -CHR, according to Wiki, CHR has a 40% Mod on SA, which is more than DEX?

[IfritnoItazura]

Mandragora should be weak to piercing, yes.

I still say you're better off setting up macros with no /wait:
mrc1: /ja "Boost: <me>
mrc2: /ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
mrc3: /ws "Fast Blade" <t>

Just hold on to the <ctrl> or <alt> key, and press them one after another.

[Tokitoki]

Also, someone mentioned Jack'O's, but they carry -CHR, according to Wiki, CHR has a 40% Mod on SA, which is more than DEX?

SA mod is only DEX. Dancing Edge has the CHR mod.

[hongman]

Ah, I think I was looking at the wrong page when I wrote that.

I'm tired :(

[Armando]

Jack-o-Lanterns aren't a good food for the same reason Sushi isn't at this level. 10 Acc (which is just Hit Rate +5%) doesn't justify passing on the 20% Attack bonus + 5 Acc from Rice Dumplings or the 25% Attack boost from normal foods. CHR is also a modifier on Shadowstitch but in general forget about modifiers.

[hongman]

but in general forget about modifiers.

May I ask why?

[Armando]

In almost every WS pumping STR does better, and in the case of THF then DEX or AGI for SA/TA is more important with the exception of Dancing Edge since it's 5 hits. Modifiers are just for filling in random slots where you can't put any Accuracy/Attack/STR/DEX/AGI.

[Malacite]

The lanterns are very good for THF, especially if you're using sword. THF only has a D ranking in sword remember, so there's a 7 point discrepancy I believe by the time you hit the dunes (5 or 7 I don't remember) making +10 accuracy a rather large influence. The evasion is great too for pulling. And sushi is purely for ranged accuracy and I can't say I recommend it, but if you really want it go with squid sushi.

That said, especially if you're using dagger, mutton rocks until you're past the jungles. Then you want to switch to Dhalmel/Wild Steaks until 200 base attack.

[711rocks]

Just noticed THF has really high base INT, and AF has INT as well. What is this for? lolElementalWs?
Also, someone mentioned Jack'O's, but they carry -CHR, according to Wiki, CHR has a 40% Mod on SA, which is more than DEX?


I remember seeing a test that Archain did where it seemed one of the dagger MP drain WSs mods was INT and the other seemed to be MND.

No one worries about chr for DE lol

[Armando]

The lanterns are very good for THF, especially if you're using sword. THF only has a D ranking in sword remember, so there's a 7 point discrepancy I believe by the time you hit the dunes (5 or 7 I don't remember) making +10 accuracy a rather large influence. The evasion is great too for pulling. And sushi is purely for ranged accuracy and I can't say I recommend it, but if you really want it go with squid sushi.That still doesn't change that it's giving up a 20 or 25% Attack buff to get +5% hit rate. If you wouldn't eat Jack-o-Lanterns on a job with an A-ranked weapon, then why would you on THF? 7 skill is only a 3.5% hit rate difference, that's not even perceivable through observation. In any case the skill difference works against your Attack as well so that reasoning could be applied both ways.

Just look at it side by side:
+2.5% hit rate, +20% Attack (Rice Dumplings)
OR
+5% hit rate

[Ayrlie]

marksmanship is important, you want it leveled for acid bolts (especially when going against crabs and crawlers), and later for soloing (see below)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m81Rj40BJhs

oh yeah I been soloing white onions in boyahda and been pulling off 1500 Dancing Edges on them (i'll post screenshots later, I'm very tired)

[Tokitoki]

Needs more Sleep > SA and SAWS.

[hongman]

Ding 20....

[Malacite]

How can you say that accuracy +10 isn't huge? Especially when you have a 7-point deficiency on sword vs dagger (also Mutton, if you eat it is 27% attack up for 3 hours; 4 if you use HQ)

it's hard to say. If you're falling behind on TP (and I was personally when I did THF) then use the jacko's (or squid sushi if you *really* can't land acid bolts. also gives a boost to SA damage) or if you can hit often enough go with the mutton for a hefty attack boost.

The jack's are especially good for soloing too >.> but over all, I agree the meat is better. Just don't dismiss the jacks outright if your accuracy is suffering on sword.


And to the OP: I'd seriously consider leveling RNG up. Not only is it nice for levels 20-29, but it comes in very handy when farming or NM camping. Having Treasure Hunter II and Widescan at the higher levels can really make a difference in your odds of claiming an NM and getting the drop.

[hongman]

Rng now 8 xD

[Malacite]

awesome, keep going ^^b

[Tokitoki]

Around those levels sushi is only giving around 7-8 acc where Rice Dumplings give 5 acc and 20% attack. Which is more beneficial?

Now look at Jack O Lantern's 10 acc versus Rice Dumplings' 5 acc and +20% attack. I think it's pretty clear which is going to do better overall.

[711rocks]

Every job has fine acc with capped weapons 1-40ish
Thf with crappy h2h skill and att food is fine, that's how we had to do it back in the day y0
It was either you ate a meat kabob or if you were a mage you ate a pie.
Gear is better nowadays too, and people can have merits.
Eat the damn attack food.

[Malacite]

Sword if I remember correctly on THF goes up by about 2 per level for THF since it's a D ranked skill.

So by level 20, you'll have 42 base attack, give or take a few points (my math might be off a little assuming you gain 3 and not 2 points for a few of the early levels, but I'm sure you don't)

That means rice dumplings will give you 8.4 attack. Totally not worth it IMO (unless you're using dagger or a lot of bolts to do damage. Then you're getting a nice boost), you're better off going straight +acc or straight attack (11.34 attack from mutton if sword; 17.01 if dagger!)

So how the hell is a Jack only 5% accuracy increase when you only have 42 skill on sword by 20? 1 skill = 1 accuracy and attack, so that's a 25% increase right there.


Having recently leveled BRD again in the dunes eating mutton with sword and using minuet + madrigal I can honestly say that the jacks are noticable. Even with all those buffs I couldn't get most mobs to check any lower than neutral evade or def and BRD has a higher skill rating than THF in sword (C-, B- in dagger)


And again the +10 evasion is really nice too, for soloing and pulling. Again, sushi is *mainly* for landing acid bolts if you're having trouble with that, and stop forgetting about the +5 DEX. It has a visible effect on Sneak Attack damage. Granted, that's only once a minute versus a full time attack bonus but it's still worth mentioning.

EDIT: That said, Mutton is probably the better food most of the time, especially for dagger users. But for the nth time, if you're having trouble landing hits on SWORD then TRY a Jack-o'-Lantern.

[Armando]

Remember, a change of 2 Accuracy = 1% hit rate, always. It doesn't matter if 52 is a 24% boost numerically from 42, your hit rate will still only go up by 5%. This is why the skill-gap doesn't make much of a difference accuracy-wise either, and why you shouldn't justify Jacks with the skill gap. You're only 3.5% hit rate behind the next dude if you have a 7 skill gap from D vs A skills, somewhat less if you consider THF's high DEX. If someone with an A skill can eat meat, so you can you - you'll still only be 3.5% hit rate behind him.

Also, by Lv.20 you'd have closer to 60-70 Attack. All characters have 8 base Attack, plus the 42 from skill, plus STR/2, plus Attack Earrings and Mighty Rings, etc.

[Malacite]

I figured my numbers were a little off (8 base + STR) but I thought accuracy+ had a more direct influence than that. idk, +10 to hit rate just seems like a rather large increase to me, especially with such a low skill rank.

I was basing it on my experience with BRD. eating meat and popping mad/min I was still having def/eva issues on some mobs (not all, but too many for my liking) and that was with capped sword skill, meat, and cornette +1.

To be honest, a lot of people say go sword, but I find that you're better off sticking to dagger and eating meat. You'll get the most attack that way without sacrificing accuracy. More over, I never found Sneak Attack + Fast Blade to be all that powerful. I often did more damage over all by keeping them separate (and besides that you really don't want to pull hate).

The common misconception is that dagger damage sucks; this is not the case. Most THF tend to sub NIN and don't eat meat. That's why their DoT "sucks". Dagger is just fine for THF at any level if you gear up for it and use the right food.

[IfritnoItazura]

Meh. The problem at low levels are the crabs. Dagger + meat still means 0 dmg when Scissor Guard is up, except for SA. Heck, I've seen Dagger doing 0 dmg while Scissor Guard is down. 0 dmg means no TP, no matter how accurate you are.

Seriously, if not for the crabs, I'd actually think better of Jack-o'-Lantern. As it is, it's a great kiting food for CoP 2.5 (Mammets fight) for me, but rather iffy on most other things.

[Armando]

I hate to be a Negative Nancy, but dagger really is downright horrible pre-25. The difference in DMG/Delay ratios is ridiculous. It's not really viable at all 'til 25 because Federation Knife actually boasts a decent DMG/sec ratio, good +stats and by then you'll be in the jungles (+25% damage against Mandragoras.)

And believe me, Nagamaki's tests were thorough. That 2 Acc = 1% hit rate thing is accurate. If you can eat meat with a dagger you can eat meat with a sword. The difference in hit rate won't be perceivable through observation, it's just a placebo.

[Malacite]

Crabs aren't so bad if you have acid bolts handy, and there are other mobs you can hunt in the dunes too.

You're right about the damage/delay differences between dagger and sword, but I'm still inclined to stick with the job's primary weapon. That's just my opinion.

[711rocks]

Crabs aren't so bad if you have acid bolts handy, and there are other mobs you can hunt in the dunes too.
You're right about the damage/delay differences between dagger and sword, but I'm still inclined to stick with the job's primary weapon. That's just my opinion.


Acids bolts ftw

SA fast blade and SA combo > SA wasp sting

[IfritnoItazura]

Acid bolt is helpful, but it isn't terribly fast to fire off, and it doesn't always land when THF shoots, and it doesn't always proc when it lands.

If you're spamming Acid Bolt when a crab is spamming Scissor Guard in the last 20% of its life, you're not doing much for your DoT either. And, like I said, I saw dagger doing 0 dmg against crabs without Scissor Guard. Oh, and Fish, too.

Of course, Acid Bolt is great to have; just have a BLM ready to nuke away the last 15-20% of the Crab's or Fish's HP to save the party some pain. Either that, or use your SA+WS to end of the critter's life.

* * *

Put it another way: On Qufim Island, every single good DD THF I've met used sword. Native weapon or not, sword works, and works very well for those levels. (Heck, the best ones almost came close to my DRG's output. :biggrin: )

[Malacite]

Heck, the best ones almost came close to my DRG's output. )


> . > you musta been doing something wrong there. I was a total BEAST when I leveled my DRG (but then I make my own HQ meat and go nuts for attack up)


Also @711: I said I kept them separate. Wasp sting + SA did enough damage I found on their own without combining them. I really don't see SA + Fast Blade being all that worth it, at least not for the hate spike. Most times I'd do maybe 40-60 more points of damage at most over just normal Fast Blade. by keeping them separate I gained more TP too (though to be fair, it does guarantee at least 1 hit will land so it's a toss up I suppose)

[Nuriko]

Sword if I remember correctly on THF goes up by about 2 per level for THF since it's a D ranked skill.

So by level 20, you'll have 42 base attack, give or take a few points (my math might be off a little assuming you gain 3 and not 2 points for a few of the early levels, but I'm sure you don't)

Actually, a D ranked skill is at 55 at level 20 ... an A- skill (dagger) is at 63. At level 25, they are 68 and 78 respectively ... and just because I'm bored, they're 20 apart at 57 (168 vs. 188), 31 apart at 65 (192 vs. 223), 40 apart at 69 (199 vs. 239), and 59 apart by level 75 (210 vs. 269)

Skill just isn't the largest consideration right at first, though a few extra points are always nice to have.

[hongman]

Ok, I'll wrpa this up with my in-game experience which was perfect for this thread. I aim to insult noone. THese are the facts.

PLD THF THF BLM WHM WHM

I was one THF, Sword, Rice Dumps. Other THF was Dagger, Meat Kabobs.

I can only comment on my acc not his. It was fine. He hit a lot for 0. No access to Acids yet. Even with SG up, I would get some dmg through. I owned his SA Wasp Sting to no end. I mean, really, double at least.

Moving onto Pugs. Again, same story. I had Acids, but they didnt land all that well, especially when I needed them to (lol...) but I still owned his ass with SA FastBlade. It was just lolWaspSting all over.

[Armando]

There's no point in separating SA and WS. SAWS + a normal hit will do slightly more damage than WS + SA hit. SAWS is also more efficient in skillchains, obviously. The problem with Wasp Sting is that it's literally a normal hit with poison. Not even a measily 10% stat modifier in there to increase its base damage (Fast Blade, on the other hand, uses 20% DEX and 20% STR.) Any WS does more than Wasp Sting.

Acid Bolts are terribly important. -12.5% Defense means everyone's Attack/Defense ratio goes up by 14.2%. And that's really strong. Stronger than Dia II. Hell, that's half an Armor Break. That's so worth going out of your way for.

[IfritnoItazura]

There's no point in separating SA and WS. SAWS + a normal hit will do slightly more damage than WS + SA hit.
That is not the correct way of looking at. Keep in mind that a THF gets huge damage bonus from successful SA + melee hit. SA isn't just for WS.

When a THF doesn't have 100% TP, he can preload SA before the monster gets to camp, get in a nice big hit, TP to 100% shortly, then unload another SA just 10-15 seconds after the first one if timed correctly. (Would have to tank for a while after that, but Utusemi and Evasion Bonus is good for that.)

This way, a THF can consistently get in 2-3 (or 4 in bad parties) SA attacks per battle, a huge increase in output even without WS on each. Waiting on TP to use SA can be a waste. Not pre-charging SA when you can is nearly a crime; SA comes around once a minute--a THF should make use of it as close to once a minute as possible.

Acid Bolts are terribly important. -12.5% Defense means everyone's Attack/Defense ratio goes up by 14.2%. And that's really strong. Stronger than Dia II. Hell, that's half an Armor Break. That's so worth going out of your way for. Er, it's still situational, and I don't think when the monster is low on HP is one of those situations.

If an SA attack will finish off the critter, do that instead. If BLM has the MP, make him nuke away the last 15% of the monster's HP. What's the point of spike damage jobs if they don't finish the last portion of the fight quickly?

[hongman]

Quick question about TA - If I want, I can seperate SA and TA right?

Say there is no 1st voke for whatever reason and Tank is 1st voke, I should be able to SA from behind the mob, then run round and TA on the Tank? Is that how it works?

I was thinking of having my macro pallette something like this for SA/TA/WS

1. SAWS
2. TAWS
3. SATAWS

Is that right? If I dont have TP ready its a normal hit, but also ensures that if I do have TP, I wont miss it and the WS will go before I swing again.

[IfritnoItazura]

Quick question about TA - If I want, I can seperate SA and TA right?
Don't bother before THF60; Viper Bite without SA is less than an Ant Bite.

Say there is no 1st voke for whatever reason and Tank is 1st voke, I should be able to SA from behind the mob, then run round and TA on the Tank? Is that how it works?
Sad to say, but basically it doesn't work. Before THF60, SA and TA go together. Just leave the party if you can't get someone's back to SA+TA with.

I was thinking of having my macro pallette something like this for SA/TA/WS

1. SAWS
2. TAWS
3. SATAWS
I wish you'd take my advice on this:
Mcr0: Boost/Berserk/Utsusemi
Mrc1: Sneak Attack
Mcr2: Trick Attack
Mcr3: WS

If you press them manually, you'd never have to worry about lag or /wait being right or wrong; just hold down <ctrl> or <alt> (which ever row those macros are on), and press them in a row.

[Kirsteena]

I agree, pre 60, if you are inviting a thf, you should have a back up voker anyway - pre 37 2 nins are good anyway, but most parties will have a war or a sam or mnk who can hold hate temporarily while you set up SATA - when you hit 60 and have access to Assassin, that is when it can be separated out.

[hongman]

I wish you'd take my advice on this:
Mcr0: Boost/Berserk/Utsusemi
Mrc1: Sneak Attack
Mcr2: Trick Attack
Mcr3: WS

I will do this.

[Armando]

Itazura: You're right. Should've been clearer. What I meant to say is that if you have to choose between SAWS + a normal hit or WS + SA hit, the first will do more damage every time. Splitting them up just ends up doing less damage. Remember that I was posting in reply to Malacite's comment that doing them separate did more damage for him.Er, it's still situational, and I don't think when the monster is low on HP is one of those situations.

If an SA attack will finish off the critter, do that instead. If BLM has the MP, make him nuke away the last 15% of the monster's HP. What's the point of spike damage jobs if they don't finish the last portion of the fight quickly?If by "it's situational" you mean "whenever the mob isn't going to die immediately afterwards," then yes. Obviously if you can kill the mob yourself you should, and if SA is up you use that ASAP because it's on a timer, but other than that you should always put a bolt on the mob whenever Defense Down isn't on it. There's nothing to lose. Should your BLM get resisted and take longer than expected to kill the mob, it'll help.

[711rocks]

Might as well get used to SA WS cause if you try to SA then VB you're gonna be shot.

[hongman]

Not quite sure what you mean tbh.

SA WS + SA VB is the same thing, with VB being the WS lol.

See Im confused :P

[Malacite]

>. > that other THF was totally using the wrong food (you don't use kabobs until the late 40's/early 50's) and stacking SA + Wasp Sting is retarded. I don't think I've *ever* seen a worthwhile increase from it. Best to keep those separate. SA + Fast Blade does work well (despite my own preference of usually not stacking the two early on, not outright) especially when dual-wielding (potentially 3 hits)

[711rocks]

I meant don't use SA then use a WS seperate


Edit
Even though wasp sting/shadow stitch kind of blow (if one insists on using dagger) you can still SA them for a decent renkei if you have a good party that can perform them. D:

[Pixeldance]

Just noticed THF has really high base INT, and AF has INT as well. What is this for? lolElementalWs?


There is some speculation that INT is applied to /steal & /mug and lockpicking attempts