Been awhile since the WHM's had a discussion

[Irisjir Callard]

So, several points I've been wondering about:

Blessed Briault: Worth the inventory or not? I already have noble's tunic and cleric's briault for cures and regens, and errant for resting. Is increased barspell potency really worth ANOTHER piece of inventory occupied?

Genbu's Sheild: Why does everyone love this thing? Yes, damage -10%. I can see that being pretty nice. Is it worth sacrificing attk+12? Obviously, since I'm using healing and dark staff in pt, I'm not going be using a shield unless I'm soloing. As a melee/solo whm, should I make an attempt to get a genbu's?

I've already pestered the hell with merit questions, so I won't re-visit those.

Do any whms use /pld, especially in place of /smn for auto-refresh and job ability buffs? Dynamis applications come to mind for this combonation.

Have any whms ever experimented with /sam? This is off the wall and random, I'd like to try it out someday as a melee sub along similar lines as /nin (but without utsuemi and dual-weild, ofcourse)

What is the job priority for hastes? I know I have my own priority based on things like tp gain and other random stuffs, but I'd be interested to see in what order OTHER whm's haste people, especially DD. I don't want to see something like "I hate the tank then the dd then someone else" I want a specific order, like NIN > PLD > DRK > THF > etc etc down to SAM > RNG > BLM > SMN
As a sub-question here, do you commonly haste yourself?

Do you use enfeebling, IE, paralize and slow, in pts? And at what levels and situations do you enfeeble?

Hmm...I think that's enough for today. Discuss!

[Necropolis]

So, several points I've been wondering about:

Blessed Briault: Worth the inventory or not? I already have noble's tunic and cleric's briault for cures and regens, and errant for resting. Is increased barspell potency really worth ANOTHER piece of inventory occupied?

I don't bother putting mine on that much in meripo, but now that I've started HNMs and more in depth endgame stuff, I do use it a lot.

Genbu's Sheild: Why does everyone love this thing? Yes, damage -10%. I can see that being pretty nice. Is it worth sacrificing attk+12? Obviously, since I'm using healing and dark staff in pt, I'm not going be using a shield unless I'm soloing. As a melee/solo whm, should I make an attempt to get a genbu's?

Well it depends on what you're attacking. You can use it in exp as well with a templar mace, but I prefer the Astral Aspis or Numinous Shield for mp/mnd builds. My light staff only gets macroed in for dia/flah/holy these days.


Do any whms use /pld, especially in place of /smn for auto-refresh and job ability buffs? Dynamis applications come to mind for this combonation.


Depending on what role you play in dynamis mandates what I sub. I usually go with /blm for ES+sleep incase the blm parties get wiped by something and we're low on sleepers. A whm friend of mine ran a dynamis shell for a long time and used /nin or /thf to pull. Of course he's just a different tier whm than myself, he has a SS of a magic burst banish3 for 2300+ damage in his sig. I have no idea how a taru got enough mind for that much damage @.@

/pld you'd be losing out on a hell of a lot of mp compared to /smn. I know blms that use war or nin as a sub and do quiet well, so perhaps it has potential. Though I don't find myself getting hit that often as whm in dynamis anymore.


What is the job priority for hastes? I know I have my own priority based on things like tp gain and other random stuffs, but I'd be interested to see in what order OTHER whm's haste people, especially DD. I don't want to see something like "I hate the tank then the dd then someone else" I want a specific order, like NIN > PLD > DRK > THF > etc etc down to SAM > RNG > BLM > SMN
As a sub-question here, do you commonly haste yourself?


Most times I'm hasting all the melees, so just to make it easier for me, I start with the top melee in the party list, then go to next, next, next et cetera. After the initial haste cycle, they'll have haste on 99% of the time, so I don't have to have a priority. If something happens that I run low on MP, I'll drop to just hasting the tank for a few ticks then more on.

And I don't typically haste myself, I usually don't have trouble keeping up a 4 man haste cycle most nights.

Of course in events where I may not be hasting anyone, I haste tanks first, then skill chainers if we're going for MB damage. I'll haste the slower DD in the skill chain first (like drk) then the faster skillchain partner (like a sam)

Do you use enfeebling, IE, paralize and slow, in pts? And at what levels and situations do you enfeeble?

I use to not enfeeble a lot, though enough to keep the skill capped. But now that I've redone all my macros and carry around nearly 60 pieces of equipment for whm alone, I do enfeeble a bit. Right now I'm sitting at 274 enfeebling skill in gear/merits and don't have too much trouble enfeebling most exp mobs, and the majority of dynamis mobs.

[Olorin401]

So, several points I've been wondering about:
Blessed Briault: Worth the inventory or not? I already have noble's tunic and cleric's briault for cures and regens, and errant for resting. Is increased barspell potency really worth ANOTHER piece of inventory occupied?
I'd say it's worth the investment if you do a lot with endgame, though admittedly I sold mine when I got Noble's Tunic and started putting merits into barspells instead.
Genbu's Sheild: Why does everyone love this thing? Yes, damage -10%. I can see that being pretty nice. Is it worth sacrificing attk+12? Obviously, since I'm using healing and dark staff in pt, I'm not going be using a shield unless I'm soloing. As a melee/solo whm, should I make an attempt to get a genbu's?
I've already pestered the hell with merit questions, so I won't re-visit those.
It's nice to have for some situations but mine usually takes up space in my mog locker.
Do any whms use /pld, especially in place of /smn for auto-refresh and job ability buffs? Dynamis applications come to mind for this combonation.
Have any whms ever experimented with /sam? This is off the wall and random, I'd like to try it out someday as a melee sub along similar lines as /nin (but without utsuemi and dual-weild, ofcourse)
I never tried these two jobs as a sub to WHM. Usually I use /smn, /blm or /nin if I wanna go off somewhere and beat stuff up.
What is the job priority for hastes? I know I have my own priority based on things like tp gain and other random stuffs, but I'd be interested to see in what order OTHER whm's haste people, especially DD. I don't want to see something like "I hate the tank then the dd then someone else" I want a specific order, like NIN > PLD > DRK > THF > etc etc down to SAM > RNG > BLM > SMN
As a sub-question here, do you commonly haste yourself?
My order is Tanks > Two-handed melee > dual wield melee. If there's another healer in our group, especially a RDM, we'll split up the haste duty and I will cast it on myself last.
Do you use enfeebling, IE, parayize and slow, in pts? And at what levels and situations do you enfeeble?
I usually don't get a chance to cast enfeebs since RDMs are just better at making it stick and proc than WHMs.. though if no one else is doing it I will. As for situations I hope you would cast enfeebs any time you can! I think the only time I wouldn't is if I knew for a fact that the mob would resist it every time.. and such a situation is rare.

[Kirsteena]

So, several points I've been wondering about:
Blessed Briault: Worth the inventory or not? I already have noble's tunic and cleric's briault for cures and regens, and errant for resting. Is increased barspell potency really worth ANOTHER piece of inventory occupied?

Depends what you use your whm for. Seriously endgame, yes. Casual/meripo, no.

Genbu's Sheild: Why does everyone love this thing? Yes, damage -10%. I can see that being pretty nice. Is it worth sacrificing attk+12? Obviously, since I'm using healing and dark staff in pt, I'm not going be using a shield unless I'm soloing. As a melee/solo whm, should I make an attempt to get a genbu's?

Personally, I have rdm at 75, and I'm happier soloing on that job, so I dunno about this one.

Do any whms use /pld, especially in place of /smn for auto-refresh and job ability buffs? Dynamis applications come to mind for this combonation.
Have any whms ever experimented with /sam? This is off the wall and random, I'd like to try it out someday as a melee sub along similar lines as /nin (but without utsuemi and dual-weild, ofcourse)

Can't say I have experimented, I'm tending to stick to ordinary subs for whm (for the whacky, I'll try rdm again, though won't work for /sam)

What is the job priority for hastes? I know I have my own priority based on things like tp gain and other random stuffs, but I'd be interested to see in what order OTHER whm's haste people, especially DD. I don't want to see something like "I hate the tank then the dd then someone else" I want a specific order, like NIN > PLD > DRK > THF > etc etc down to SAM > RNG > BLM > SMN
As a sub-question here, do you commonly haste yourself?

I haste tank > 2 handed melee > 1 handed melee > never mages. Well, I'll haste a blm when he is d2ing people home.... As for me, it depends on how things are going, I'm not in the habit of hasting myself, as I am an Elvaan, and mp is mp, but if I have a lot to do, I will, to free up more time to rest.

Do you use enfeebling, IE, paralize and slow, in pts? And at what levels and situations do you enfeeble?
Hmm...I think that's enough for today. Discuss!

Yes, I do, except if there is a rdm there. I have 8/8 enf magic merits, plus gear from rdm, so I'm happy to enfeeble whenever I have to - if I can save a melee from being hit with a para proc, less mp for me to expend.

[Dux]

Genbu's Sheild: Why does everyone love this thing? Yes, damage -10%. I can see that being pretty nice. Is it worth sacrificing attk+12? Obviously, since I'm using healing and dark staff in pt, I'm not going be using a shield unless I'm soloing. As a melee/solo whm, should I make an attempt to get a genbu's?

You may be interested in this little gem if you dont understand why Genbu's Shield is so popular. Templar Mace: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?fitem=10433

[Kirsteena]

Yeah, but most people team it up with something like a Numinous Shield +1 to get the maximum mnd from that set up. And I wouldn't melee with a Templar Mace, not where there are the pirate cudgels, Morgenstern, Perdu Wand, Brass Jagdana +1...

[Taskmage]

/pld actually seems like a pretty good idea even for a whm that plays as a dedicated backliner. Most whms I know use /smn but never bother with Aerial Armor, so they're pretty much just using it for auto-refresh and slightly more mnd and mp. /pld gives Defense Bonus (doesn't hurt), Resist Sleep (actually works once in a blue moon and saves lives when it does), and Sentinel to greatly reduce the amount of damage you take in case you pull hate. Seems like a pretty fair trade. A little more durability for a little bit of potency.

[hongman]

On a slightly off note for these JT Resists...do they ever work?

You say in that post, Task, that once in a while....how can you be sure that it isnt a natural resist, as opposed to a JT?

Take, for example, RDM Resist Petrify.

I have never once known it to work. Ever. The desciption of a Job Traist is something that is always in effect, so I would sum it up as a permenant Barspell if you like.

Breakga in Dynamis. Gaze attacks. etc. I always "unpetrify" the same as other people, I'll be damned if Iv ever resisted it from EM mob+.

Food for thought.

NB: At least we know that Mob JT's work, trying to sleep PLD mobs is a bish lol.

[WishMaster3K]

I honestly got sick of my Genbu Shield, but I recently and regrettably admitted that there aren't better choices for mages.

I wasn't realizing the seriousness of it as a piece of gear, because it was a free lot in my LS at the time, but my RDMs I know w/o sky always say how they wish they had one.

I mean, I got mine before I could equip it (2 years ago in november *_*) so maybe I'm biased, being as I've had it my entire lvl 75 career. But I'm doomed to have the Joyeuse and Genbu combo as long as I'm a RDM, so oh well ; ;

The only question I can comment on is your Haste cycle, and that's simple, because I'm similar to Necro almost 100% in regards to that. I use the in-game clock, and Haste will last about 1 hour and 6-8 minutes. Taking Refresh as an example, I start casting on the (hour):58, and by (hour+1):00 it's done, and the next time I can cast it is roughly (hour+1):7-8.

If I don't recast, it'll wear at (hour+2):11ish, so for the most part, I always recast the spell a few seconds before it'll wear. Even If i'm Refreshing and Hasting 3 people (well, 2, because I might be hasting myself) I can finish my buff cycle (intersparsed with Debuffs while I'm waiting for the cool down timers) by (hour+1):35, and I'll have plenty of time to Rest.

[Neomage]

On a slightly off note for these JT Resists...do they ever work?

You say in that post, Task, that once in a while....how can you be sure that it isnt a natural resist, as opposed to a JT?

Take, for example, RDM Resist Petrify.

I have never once known it to work. Ever. The desciption of a Job Traist is something that is always in effect, so I would sum it up as a permenant Barspell if you like.

Breakga in Dynamis. Gaze attacks. etc. I always "unpetrify" the same as other people, I'll be damned if Iv ever resisted it from EM mob+.

Food for thought.

NB: At least we know that Mob JT's work, trying to sleep PLD mobs is a bish lol.

It might just be a fluke, but when I did dynamis, everyone "unbroke" in "tiers" I was always, always in the first unbreaking cycle, along with other BLM/RDMs and some RDMs.

Once, I actually resisted it. I thought this was pretty cool, because I was subbing RDM. But I assure you, I resisted it. I only wish my SS didn't get deleted ; ;

[WishMaster3K]

OS, it never procs. Don't fool yourself.

; ;

I'm going to go find a corner to cry in now.

[Taskmage]

If you resist something normally, the log will say something like "No effect on Lago." or "Lago evades." If a status resistance trait contributes to the resist, or if you have something like Ebullient Ring that enhances a resist trait, the log will read "Resist! Lago resists the effects of the spell."

On thier own, resist traits are not very effective, especially on mobs higher than EM, but if you stack them with other resistances, Resist Petrify+Barstone+Barpetrify in Dynamis Bastok for instance, the combined effect is noticably greater than if you did not have the resist trait. With that combination I often full resist breakga or have a petrify that wears off in a couple seconds. Ebullient Ring+drk sub+Barblizzard+Parparalyze means I don't have to bother to turn around to avoid Hex Eye when farming hakutaku eyes on the mobs that are lower than VT. Most of the time the effect doesn't stick.

Resist Sleep I probably wouldn't make a huge difference, but it does have an effect if you play to it. I know Sleepga death can be avoided by using Poison Potions, but it can be very expensive to keep poison on for every pull that might contain Sleepga, and you can't always predict when it's going to be important. Iirc, Barsleep costs about 9 mp and lasts for a long time - around 10 minutes I think, maybe 5.

In a normal party, sure, the whm shouldn't be taking hits, but I can think of plenty of instances just in dynamis where it might happen. A big pull gets too near to where you're resting, sleepga misses a mob and since you were healing mp you're on the top of the hate list. Maybe the mob does get slept but you heal the blm sleeper when they wake, which puts you next on the hate list. A less experienced tank in Xarc might line up badly with a nin or rng, causing you to get spammed with Hecatomb Wave. Any of those situations seem like a good time to hit Sentinel.

Concerning auto-refresh, if you're in a position where you're relatively safe and have a lot of people who can benefit from it, tank party with multiple plds for instance, sure /brd is probably better. If you're in a party where you expect enmity to bounce a lot like a meripo, /smn is better for AA. If all you're concerned with is your own mp and safety, /pld seems like a pretty valid choice.

[Irisjir Callard]

....tons of numbers....


Your use of math confuses me. XD But I think I get the basic gist of what you're saying.


That also explains what might be triggering what I always sort of considered an 'instinctive' feel for where my hastes stood, since in low-stress situations I always 'know' when it's about to wear off in a few seconds. Maybe without knowing it I was keeping track of the clock...I used to wonder if it was a sign of advanced addiction.


As far as templar mace, that's definitely something to consider, on the other hand, it means instead of carrying two staffs for pt and a hammer and sheild for solo (Which totals out to four weapons) I would be carrying a staff, two hammers, two sheilds (and one more inventory slot fills up).

If I had a genbus I can see myself using it in that setup. But I don't think genbu's will ever replace Viking for the following reason:

WHM is known neither for defense nor attack abilities.
But WHM has stoneskin to make up for defense.
What do we have to patch our gimpy attack?
...have to do it with gear.

I also don't think I'll ever transfer from being a pt-staff person to a pt-club person for the simple reason that I habitually don't melee in pts with strangers. And if I'm not with strangers, my friends know I prefer to let regens do the work, so cure potency items isn't even an issue...and they won't cure over my massive regen as much as strangers will. Since I'm unlikely to be tanking in either situation, and more likely to be something of an extra DD, attack is more valuable than defense.


I'm suprised more people don't see the applications of /pld. Sure the MP is low, and the defense might help if the whm takes hate, but if a whm has hate in Dynamis a wipe is in process anyway from what I've seen.

But a whm/pld with a hMP build like mine shouldn't be bothered by the lack of MP, right? As is I usually reserve the bottom 300 of my MP for emergency use only anyway, I don't think it would be that much of a cramp on my style. And aren't some of the pld defense buffs (that are subbable, at least) AOE? That would be like an extra Protect for my pt, imho, to be used with the same frequency...whenever it wears off if possible. This is why I'm thinking of dynamis, especially for nin pt's, OR, in conjunction with either a rdm or blm sub healer. Imagine the devotion you would get with 1200 HP to fuel it!!! I'm seeing 300+

Basically, you're outsourcing your MP to another mage.

Oh and another thing, what about sheild mastery? I'd think that would make a definitely noticeable difference, especially to the whm's who use templar+genbus.

[Taskmage]

Often overlooked fact about shield mastery: it only kicks in when you block if you would've gained TP without it. Meaning you have to take damage while blocking to get any extra TP. So if Stoneskin absorbs the damage or a shadow takes the hit it can't have any effect. That alone makes it not worth considering as a bonus when soloing as rdm or whm.

[Irisjir Callard]

...I know Sleepga death can be avoided by using Poison Potions...

Yes, that is expensive. My dynamis LS requires that you show at least 6 poison pots in the trade window to get your hourglass.

Alot of people keep the same 6 potions to show and never use them, so the theory, while sound in that it makes sure people are supplied, fails to make them use those supplies.

And here's the cute thing, me and the other whm's tend to fan out at a fairly wide distance around the melee core, instead of standing in groups. Even if a sleepga hits two or three of us, the range is simply not wide enough to hit the entire 'mage donut' and we simply walk cures around the edge until all the mages are awake and have woken up their pt's. So even though we have the poison pots, our formation makes us so confident that we never use them.

But when a whm leaves the donut to run into the melee core, for say, barspell, curaga (if they feel like being included in the healing effect) protect, shell, or simply to get in range of someone else, they get slept along with the rest if a sleepga happens to fire. And since they're not in the donut, there is no 'person to the left' to wake them up, so usually their whole pt is left asleep for quite some time.

This happened to me about 5 times last dynamis Jueno, I swear the mobs were waiting for barfira to wear, KNOWING that I would run up and renew it. I'm trying to save up gil to afford a molly maul, so I try to keep my expendable item usage to a minimum...

[Irisjir Callard]

Often overlooked fact about shield mastery: it only kicks in when you block if you would've gained TP without it. Meaning you have to take damage while blocking to get any extra TP. So if Stoneskin absorbs the damage or a shadow takes the hit it can't have any effect. That alone makes it not worth considering as a bonus when soloing as rdm or whm.


So what you're saying is Sheild Mastery won't protect your Stoneskin?


If that's the gist of it, whoever came up with that is a doodoo head. Artificial hit points have feelings too!

[WishMaster3K]

My Numbers

Sorry for the confusion, but it makes sense to me, lol.

Subbing PLD for Shield Mastery is... nevermind, it's not even "meh." 1 TP if you DO block, and as we all know, WHM have awesome shield skill, lol.. But then again, so do RDMs... so I'll stop laughing ; ; /endsarcasm

If you're concerned about DamageReduction%, it'd be better to macro in Cheviot, Jelly Ring and Earth/Terra Staff. Especially if you're Staff-Swapping anyway.

PLD don't have AOE Defense abilities until Rampart, which is 62..

Sentinel + Cover is an opti- No nvm, it's not. WHM shouldn't be that close to the melee anyway. And if you have time to do it for another mage, you're right, a Wipe is already in motion, and you should be making sure you have reraise up.

Oh, and TM, about your comment, if I'm subbing PLD, I'm intending to Blood Solo anyway. The only time I cast Stoneskin is if the mob is so much higher than me that I need to cast Utsu so safely solo.

On EM or lower (UNLESS it's Demons, because those effers hit HARD..) I can sub either WAR or PLD and just use Phalanx + defensive capabilities to mitigate damage and Cure III when necessary. This doesn't apply to WHMs (lol.. WHM solo via blood tanking w/o refresh..) but just stating that for my method of soloing, I either don't bother with Stoneskin most of the time, and if I do, I'm subbing NIN anyway.

Don't feel bad, Iris. Mobs also know when you have TP and are going to WS, that's why they wait till the SC starts to do Sleepga, Whirl or Rage, or some thing else. And no, that's not sarcasm, because mobs are friggin douchebags like that. >:(

Edit:
LoL. "Artificial Hitpoints".

I can get a good minute of no damage on EM lower mobs if I start with Stoneskin up. Unless they're Demons.

Fuck Demons. -_-

[Armando]

If you resist something normally, the log will say something like "No effect on Lago." or "Lago evades." If a status resistance trait contributes to the resist, or if you have something like Ebullient Ring that enhances a resist trait, the log will read "Resist! Lago resists the effects of the spell."

On thier own, resist traits are not very effective, especially on mobs higher than EM, but if you stack them with other resistances, Resist Petrify+Barstone+Barpetrify in Dynamis Bastok for instance, the combined effect is noticably greater than if you did not have the resist trait. With that combination I often full resist breakga or have a petrify that wears off in a couple seconds. Ebullient Ring+drk sub+Barblizzard+Parparalyze means I don't have to bother to turn around to avoid Hex Eye when farming hakutaku eyes on the mobs that are lower than VT. Most of the time the effect doesn't stick.To be honest I think the traits are just a fixed % chance to avoid the status. I don't think it contributes towards your chances of resisting normally; it'll just back you up every now and then when your normal resistance fails you.

[Kirsteena]

The only trait I have ever seen kick in regularly is pld's resist sleep - if you have a charmed pld they are SODS to sleep.

Resist petrify kicks in on occasion for me, but I do put barpetrify on before I know we are coming up to scorps.

[Amele]

Blessed Briault (for the record) is M.Def+5 vs. the appropriate element,

this is like putting a dalmatica on every single member of your party when you cast a barspell with it.

genbu's is more popular because of templar mace now, yeah. most whm melee whm/nin now.

I've gone whm/sam for some chigoe-related assaults before, it's kinda clever but not really that good. you need to use a staff to gain the benefit of hasso or seigan and, frankly. hammers are better.

haste order for me:
in exp: best DD, second best DD, third best DD, etc. (specific job varies. a BB mnk is better than a non-ridill war, but a ridill war with all the other gear is better than a BB monk, etc.)
in events: nin/drk or pld/nin , other tanks, DD
in zergs: kclub/BZ darks, others.

I haste myself in dynamis, otherwise, not usually.

I enfeeble in salvage, exp, assaults, limbus, and anywhere else where there aren't redmages to do it and the mob isn't level 90+. get some enfeebling merits, get some enfeebling gear, and wear lots of +mnd.

[Olorin401]

On a slightly off note for these JT Resists...do they ever work?
You say in that post, Task, that once in a while....how can you be sure that it isnt a natural resist, as opposed to a JT?
Take, for example, RDM Resist Petrify.
I have never once known it to work. Ever. The desciption of a Job Traist is something that is always in effect, so I would sum it up as a permenant Barspell if you like.
Breakga in Dynamis. Gaze attacks. etc. I always "unpetrify" the same as other people, I'll be damned if Iv ever resisted it from EM mob+.
Food for thought.
NB: At least we know that Mob JT's work, trying to sleep PLD mobs is a bish lol.
My Resist Silence trait on my BRD must kick in at LEAST 50% of the time. It's awesome!

[Olorin401]

The only trait I have ever seen kick in regularly is pld's resist sleep - if you have a charmed pld they are SODS to sleep.
Resist petrify kicks in on occasion for me, but I do put barpetrify on before I know we are coming up to scorps.
I've also found that Barstonra helps a bunch with preventing Petrify, especially when you have your barspells merited.

[Icemage]

Blessed Briault: Worth the inventory or not? I already have noble's tunic and cleric's briault for cures and regens, and errant for resting. Is increased barspell potency really worth ANOTHER piece of inventory occupied?
As noted above, absolutely necessary for endgame. Completely worthless otherwise.

Genbu's Sheild: Why does everyone love this thing? Yes, damage -10%. I can see that being pretty nice. Is it worth sacrificing attk+12? Obviously, since I'm using healing and dark staff in pt, I'm not going be using a shield unless I'm soloing. As a melee/solo whm, should I make an attempt to get a genbu's?
It's not bad if you solo a lot, but seriously, go level RDM if you want to solo at 75. It's SO much better solo in 99% of circumstances.

Do any whms use /pld, especially in place of /smn for auto-refresh and job ability buffs? Dynamis applications come to mind for this combonation.
/SMN and /PLD are about the same nowadays for WHM. You get Auto-Refresh at the same level, and you get some questionable side abilities which basically never get used.[/quote]

The only place I see /PLD being a serious boon for /WHM is when you're anchoring the main healing slot in a King Ranperre's Tomb monk-burn. Tossing out the odd Holy Circle gives you at least one more thing to do in between cures, status removal, and Banish IIIs. ;)

Have any whms ever experimented with /sam? This is off the wall and random, I'd like to try it out someday as a melee sub along similar lines as /nin (but without utsuemi and dual-weild, ofcourse)
No way. /NIN is strictly better. I suppose you can use Hasso to increase offensive output with a staff or something... but penalty to spell recast rate sucks big donkey doodle. Won't even go into how worthless Seigan is. WHMs make great use of /NIN since our best weapon type is one-handed (dual wielded clubs) and we have a slew of Haste gears that make Utsusemi much more potent.

What is the job priority for hastes? I know I have my own priority based on things like tp gain and other random stuffs, but I'd be interested to see in what order OTHER whm's haste people, especially DD. I don't want to see something like "I hate the tank then the dd then someone else" I want a specific order, like NIN > PLD > DRK > THF > etc etc down to SAM > RNG > BLM > SMN
As a sub-question here, do you commonly haste yourself?

Job priority:

Tier 1: Ninja and WAR/NIN tanks. Absolutely must have Haste, always.

Tier 2: Paladin. Gets a nice boost in enmity from attacks, decreases Flash timer, and auto-defends against most Slow effects other than from Spiders.

Tier 3: Heavy hate-gainers using /NIN. Typically this is MNK/NINs, but can also include non-tanking WAR/NINs. Bards that are pulling with /NIN fall into this category as well, since it helps their Utsusemi and Lullaby recast times.

Tier 4: Slow melees/high damage weapons. This tier includes Dark Knights and Dragoons mostly. Samurai makes the cut here as well if in a TP-burn. PUP fall into this category out of my personal pity because of their lower melee accuracy. WARs using Great Axes also fall into this category.

Tier 5: Fast hitters/Fast TP gainers that are primary melees. THF, DRG, SAM, MNK, and BST usually fall into this tier.

Tier 6: Non-primary melees. Blue mage is really the only job that falls into this category. Note that some BLUs prefer to use Refueling on themselves, though Haste is actually more effective than Refueling.

Tier 7: Everyone else who doesn't get much of anything from Haste. This category catches SMN, WHM, BLM, RDM, RNG, COR, and non-pulling BRDs.

Do you use enfeebling, IE, paralize and slow, in pts? And at what levels and situations do you enfeeble?
Paralyze and Slow I'll only use if there's no RDM available or if the RDM happens to be incompetent and the situation warrants it. In TP-burns, Slow is meaningless; Paralyze is simply more effective since enemies die too fast for Slow's higher MP cost and lesser overall effect to be worthwhile.

I also like using Sleep and Sleepga as a panic button in Dynamis (but don't try this at home kids unless you're like me and have accumulated a LOT of +Enfeebling skill gears and merits). This requires you to use a /BLM sub however.

Silence is ALWAYS worth trying in Dynamis and other special locations where you know the enemy can be Silenced within reason and has nasty spells (particularly those accursed scorpions in Dynamis-Bastok that like to cast Breakga, and the birds in Dynamis-Windurst that cast Silencega).

WHM/RDM also has access to Dispel, which is 100% useful. Almost never fails except against enemies heavily resistant to Dark magic such as Imps.


Icemage

[IfritnoItazura]

I'm suprised more people don't see the applications of /pld. Sure the MP is low, and the defense might help if the whm takes hate, but if a whm has hate in Dynamis a wipe is in process anyway from what I've seen.

But a whm/pld with a hMP build like mine shouldn't be bothered by the lack of MP, right? As is I usually reserve the bottom 300 of my MP for emergency use only anyway, I don't think it would be that much of a cramp on my style. And aren't some of the pld defense buffs (that are subbable, at least) AOE? That would be like an extra Protect for my pt, imho, to be used with the same frequency...whenever it wears off if possible. This is why I'm thinking of dynamis, especially for nin pt's, OR, in conjunction with either a rdm or blm sub healer. Imagine the devotion you would get with 1200 HP to fuel it!!! I'm seeing 300+

Just one, I think: Holy Circle.

From /PLD:
Lv.5 Holy Circle
Lv.5 Undead Killer
Lv.10 Defense Bonus
Lv.15 Shield Bash
Lv.20 Resist Sleep
Lv.25 Shield Mastery I
Lv.30 Sentinel
Lv.30 Defense Bonus II
Lv.35 Cover
Lv.35 Auto Refresh

Defense Bonus all together is Def+22. Nice, but not exactly earth shattering. Holy Circle... Good for bones party, I guess, once every 10 minutes. (Not sure if Undead Killer and Resist Sleep are even worth mentioning.)

Shiled Mastery: only if you're engaged and getting hit (and need TP). Sentinel? Greatly reduces damage you receive, but monsters will treat that like a Provoke, except every action you do would produce more enmity than usual while it's up. Cover is like Sentinel; only good if you want to tank.

Auto-Refresh is the same one you'd get from /SMN.

Looks like /PLD is for WHM's who wants monsters to swing at them.

[Irisjir Callard]

Alot of good points, unfortunately where subjobs are concerned I have a lot of ideas but I don't really know what abilities I see 75 players using that date all the way back from the pre-40's. I see something that I think would be useful, but find it's not available...and that what is available isn't very useful. It makes me wonder if I'm ever REALLY going to level any subs outside of /blm and /smn and possibly possibly /brd.



I've never hasted myself in any pt situation, and I was wondering if I was missing out on some great secret of advanced whm lore. On the same key, I virtually never bother with enfeebles either, even when I don't have a rdm...and a big selling point of my whm is the mindset of refresh optional. Since I'm willing to go without refresh, I almost always land in a pt without rdm or brd (And the cor population on midgard is negligible)

[Icemage]

Alot of good points, unfortunately where subjobs are concerned I have a lot of ideas but I don't really know what abilities I see 75 players using that date all the way back from the pre-40's. I see something that I think would be useful, but find it's not available...and that what is available isn't very useful. It makes me wonder if I'm ever REALLY going to level any subs outside of /blm and /smn and possibly possibly /brd.
/RDM is a worthwhile subjob, speaking from personal experience. It's useful in a number of light solo scenarios like helping people get ancient papyrus and other situations where you need to be able to negate lots of little tiny hits (AoE farming, for instance).

Fast Cast, Phalanx and Dispel are a very nice list of perks.

Strangely enough, /DRG is a useful subjob if you're at endgame and fighting Wyrms. Not just for the circle ability, but the ability to shed enmity via High Jump is particularly useful for extended battles sometimes.

I've never hasted myself in any pt situation, and I was wondering if I was missing out on some great secret of advanced whm lore.
There's one case where Haste on yourself is a good idea, and that's recovering from a wipe. Haste helps a lot with reducing recast timers when you're Weakened, and since the recast on Raise II/III is so long, this can buy you precious time in Dynamis, Limbus or other group activities.

On the same key, I virtually never bother with enfeebles either, even when I don't have a rdm...and a big selling point of my whm is the mindset of refresh optional. Since I'm willing to go without refresh, I almost always land in a pt without rdm or brd (And the cor population on midgard is negligible)
I would never go XP at level 75 without some form of Refresh. It's just not practical. There's other ways to spend your time than grinding out mediocre amounts of XP because you don't have enough support. These days, on the rare occasions when I actually play, I don't even bother meriting on WHM anymore. It's much easier and faster to use BRD or RDM since I don't have to worry about the refresh aspect since I'm carrying that load myself. ;)


Icemage

[Irisjir Callard]

/RDM

...lol the only reason I didn't restate the reason I don't level rdm in my last post is I figured people were sick of me saying the same thing over and over and over again. I don't plan to level rdm because I live with a career rdm, blah blah blah, very militant in his views, blah blah blah, me having my own opinion of the rdm job starts enough fights already without me actually playing it, etc etc etc. Wait till I move out, then I might level rdm. I agree it sounds very useful but I'm not going to wreck my pusedo-marriage over a job in a videogame.

Strangely enough, /DRG is a useful subjob if you're at endgame and fighting Wyrms. Not just for the circle ability, but the ability to shed enmity via High Jump is particularly useful for extended battles sometimes.

I've heard this from a number of sources, unfortunately, since I do CoP with pick-up groups anyway, they're usually not picky about my subjob and I'm not expecting particularly fantabulous performaces from them either. IF I get drg leveled to 30~ish before I finish CoP, I'll be glad to use it, but I'm not considering it on my list of top 5 subs I need to level. XD

There's one case where Haste on yourself is a good idea, and that's recovering from a wipe. Haste helps a lot with reducing recast timers when you're Weakened, and since the recast on Raise II/III is so long, this can buy you precious time in Dynamis, Limbus or other group activities.

Usually I raise the rdm-brd if I have one, and they get to haste me, since Raise II/III is such a huge spell for my MP pool. Weakened I only have about 500 and even though I PERSONALLY think Conserve MP procs more often and for a larger % of spell cast cost while weakened (Raise III for 8 MP? Come on, that's completely unprecidented for R3 by everything I know about conserve mp, and SHOULD be impossible by the formula I was told way long ago.) But still, can't gamble on that, and 40 MP can very definitely be the difference between r1 and r2.

I would never go XP at level 75 without some form of Refresh. It's just not practical. There's other ways to spend your time than grinding out mediocre amounts of XP because you don't have enough support. These days, on the rare occasions when I actually play, I don't even bother meriting on WHM anymore. It's much easier and faster to use BRD or RDM since I don't have to worry about the refresh aspect since I'm carrying that load myself. ;)
Icemage

A lot of whm's wouldn't.

That's what makes me different and, for endgame shells running low on rdm and brd, incredibly valuable.

While everyone else was telling me the myriad benefits of putting max merits in cure cast time, I was putting them into regen potency anyway. While everyone else was telling me about aristocrat's cloak onry, I was up in Beaudicine farming myself up a cleric's briault. Sure, I probably look like a clown on these forums, taking the majority opinion's good advice and throwing it merrily out the window. I stayed away from this forum for a long while because I realized, until I could say I was 75 with maxed merits 5/5 relic all jobs at least leveled to 40 if not 60+, no-one here would believe I had a method that worked.

Meh, oh well.

What's my method? hMP. Not neccesarily every piece I can get, but as much as I can comfortably fit in a macro, or on items I don't mind wearing all the time. hMP food. hMP earrings.

Mind? Not so much. I find the effects of it as negligible when I'm backlining as I found the effects of strength negligible when I was meleeing. If a piece has it, that's good. I don't 'stack' it. I don't shop for it.

Raw MP+? Meh. Use it once and it's gone. The piece better have some other worthwhile stat besides MP, or once I've used that MP there's no reason to have it. (hint, this is where the mind part kicks in)

Haste%? This is a relatively new stat for me. I like it when I'm soloing, that's for sure, but in pt? Meh.

Cure potency? This is wonderful to have...for an emergency. I try not to use cure spells. If you see me in a noble's tunic, it means something's gone haywire already anyway.

Regen potency? OH GOD WHY ISNT THERE MORE GEAR WITH THIS!!! To my knowledge, it's JUST the AF briault. Come ON!!! MOAR!! Could at least have put it on Mjollnir too, the hammer's hard enough to get it wouldn't unbalance everything >.< /endrant

Basically, it boils down to thus, for me:

Use the minimum amount of MP to the maximum amount of effect. Cure spells are inefficent. Regen is NAUTURALLY 150% of the effect of Cure, MP for MP. And Regens can be merited to enhance that effect even farther. Even pre-endgame, before augmented regens and cures, it's obvious that party upkeep should be done with regens. At my level, I've almost completely thrown the curaga palette out the window (Except for dynamis-jeuno...bombtossbombtossbombtossbombtoss (2.5 hours later) bombtossbombtossbombtoss....).
Keep a PLD on a constant regen III and you can forget about them. Wait until a nin's shadows are down and, with Flash, you might not even need to tack on a regen.

And the "over time" constraint that everyone thinks is such a drawback? That SCREAMS "/heal time!" to me. Even when I don't have sanction refresh (And it's really amazing how often between sanction and briault refresh I don't have to pause to rest for an hour or more. Heck, on Midgard, sometimes an hour is the length of the entire party! And with a hMP build even one or two ticks of resting is enough mp recovery to make up for the occasional emergency cure IV.

And yah I know, 4 is the worst of the cure spells, but I don't like letting people get down to where they need 5, and if they only need 3 they're not out of regen territory yet.

It sounds kind of foggy on paper because it's not flashy or involve a lot of fancy equations, just good sense and a heavy prefrence for regens, and yes, I can maintain a 3-man haste cycle with this method with no serious MP depletion.

But the bottom line is, if I have an outside refresh source, I usually use the MP for nuking, flash-frenzy, or just being lazy and curing instead of regening. (Cure skill still hasn't gone over 250 <.<;; need to skill that one hardcore.)

But it's a method that's worked for me for a good 25 levels through just about anything the game can throw at me. Sure, I run out of MP once in a while, but so do all the other whm's I know, and when I do it, regens are up and people will be fine until I heal up some MP, even if they do take damage while I'm resting.

It's basically a system of many interlocking parts, instead of straight up "When da number turns da yellow use de curez!"

[Icemage]

Depends on what you're doing and who you're doing it with too, Iris. If you were at endgame killing HNMs, you'd soon see that your heavy dependence on Regen starts to hurt you more than help you. I like Regen too, but there's no way to keep a tank alive with just Regen when the monsters hit once every few seconds for 200-500+ points of damage.

That's also why your focus hasn't been on stats like MND (only really useful for cures and debuffs) and instead focuses on hMP and Regen potency, incidentally. That's what works for you. :)

If I tried that setup, I'd hate myself. Cure speed is king at end-game, followed by Cure potency and enmity reduction. hMP is still important, but pales heavily in the very common situation of having a Bard AND a RDM in your party providing anywhere from 6-10 additional MP per tick.

It's just a matter of priorities. :)


Icemage

[Amele]

Depends on what you're doing and who you're doing it with too, Iris. If you were at endgame killing HNMs, you'd soon see that your heavy dependence on Regen starts to hurt you more than help you. I like Regen too, but there's no way to keep a tank alive with just Regen when the monsters hit once every few seconds for 200-500+ points of damage.
That's also why your focus hasn't been on stats like MND (only really useful for cures and debuffs) and instead focuses on hMP and Regen potency, incidentally. That's what works for you. :)
If I tried that setup, I'd hate myself. Cure speed is king at end-game, followed by Cure potency and enmity reduction. hMP is still important, but pales heavily in the very common situation of having a Bard AND a RDM in your party providing anywhere from 6-10 additional MP per tick.
It's just a matter of priorities. :)
Icemage

cure speed isn't king. neither is regen; -especially- in alliance situations

all cure speed does is make sure your cure lands instead of some other healer's cure - you still collectively overcured.

all regen does is auto-tick periodically until someone overcures anyway.


(ok, seriously speaking) after barspell effect, which is the only CAT I merit you *should* have for endgame (and even then you could spec differently if enough whitemages in your hnm have it) either cure speed or regen is acceptable.

just get the rest of the gear to back it up.

(for the record, regen III full spec is 28hp/tick: which is a cure pot+20% cure III every 25 seconds)

[Kirsteena]

If I was still in my old HNMLS, fighting the mobs we were, cure speed WOULD be king. Our whm were rotated a lot for fights, in order to give us time to shed hate. Therefore there wouldn't be that many whm in the ally. If you have a tank hit by say, off the top of my head, para, then s/he was crit hit, you need that cure speed to help them have a chance to stay alive. Clogs, plus merits, mean you cast nice and fast, also then, you have a chance to max out mnd and get the benefits.

Now, I dunno so much. In my current shell, my whm is used mainly in sea. I'm maxing out barspells (hello thar JoFaith), but I really don't know whether to go regen or cast time - I'll probably end up cast time. Our main pld like to get hit a little too much!

[Icemage]

cure speed isn't king. neither is regen; -especially- in alliance situations

all cure speed does is make sure your cure lands instead of some other healer's cure - you still collectively overcured.

I disagree. Typically you have 1 or 2 WHMs in a main tank party, and losing a tank because your cure was a split second too slow is far more devastating than losing a bit of MP from an overcure.

Besides, the faster I can get a tank healed, the less reason outside healers will have to interfere; only when I am critically low on MP will I note that outside cures would be a good idea, and that's only for as long a duration as it requires for me to get swapped out, logged out, and logged back in to recover.

If your alliance or group is overcuring heavily, then your collective healing skills suck and your trust levels are far too low. Good linkshells let people perform their jobs without interference unless asked for or it's obvious that the chips are down.

all regen does is auto-tick periodically until someone overcures anyway.
That's not true, either. Regen is an excellent tool for enmity management. You can't forgo Regens completely because they're low-enmity ways to buy your tanks some extra time while conserving your MP. Again, as above, if you've got a bunch of people curebombing from outside, that would negate the benefit, but good players don't generally have many issues with this.

(ok, seriously speaking) after barspell effect, which is the only CAT I merit you *should* have for endgame (and even then you could spec differently if enough whitemages in your hnm have it) either cure speed or regen is acceptable.
Barspell effect is great for endgame, but totally useless everywhere else. Not everyone wants or needs it, and other choices are equally valid (well, except Banish effect - that one just sucks).

(for the record, regen III full spec is 28hp/tick: which is a cure pot+20% cure III every 25 seconds)
That's mostly due to the base potency of Regen III and not so much to do with the AF2 briault and/or regen merits.

I like Regen potency well enough; I just don't think it's of much use at endgame considering the scale of damage that you're dealing with compared to the benefits of other abilities you can purchase.


Icemage

[Necropolis]

I would have to argue on weather cure speed is king or not. It, in my opinion, is the single most important merit for HNM situations as well as useful in almost every other situation. Regen is nice for exp parties, and for farming for pop items and such, but I hardly find it useful at HNMs. In fact I find the long cast time a hinderance.

At faf the other day, I decided to throw regen on the main tank to help add a little buffer to his hp, he gets terrored as soon as I start casting, second pld get terrored, and first pld nearly dies before I can start casting a cure.

The only situations I could see someone getting over cured is where you have an inexperienced group of people. They don't know how to work together or use to each other's play styles or stratgy on a certain mob.

Bar spells are of course useful, and was the fully merited shortly after cast times. I could see the use of Regen potency if it came with a cast time reduction or was effected by cure clogs. but it isn't so therefore I won't merit it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Tier 7: Everyone else who doesn't get much of anything from Haste. This category catches SMN, WHM, BLM, RDM, RNG, COR, and non-pulling BRDs.

Quick nitpick. RNG gets nothing from Haste, the spell has no effect on Ranged attacks at all. However, at meritpo level, Joyeuse is the sword of choice for CORs and thier primary source of TP. Haste your COR if they are doing Joyeuse melee.

If they don't have one, don't bother, they're TPing with their gun if they don't have it and Haste won't lower job ability recast timers anyway, just spell recast.

Joyeuse melee about the only situation I'd reccomend Haste for a COR, perhaps lower on the list than other melees in PT, but always appreciated.

[Icemage]

Quick nitpick. RNG gets nothing from Haste, the spell has no effect on Ranged attacks at all. However, at meritpo level, Joyeuse is the sword of choice for CORs and thier primary source of TP. Haste your COR if they are doing Joyeuse melee.

If they don't have one, don't bother, they're TPing with their gun if they don't have it and Haste won't lower job ability recast timers anyway, just spell recast.
Joyeuse melee about the only situation I'd reccomend Haste for a COR, perhaps lower on the list than other melees in PT, but always appreciated.
True. You can adjust people up or down one tier on my list based on special circumstances. For instance, Berserk-happy DDs using /WAR get downgraded 1 full tier because they have a tendency turn into MP sponges and disrupt enmity balance. In your example, a Joyeuse-wielding Corsair who likes to melee would upgrade to tier 6 (non-primary melee) because of their playstyle focus.

The rules aren't set in stone; what I set out was just a general overview to provide understanding of what works, and why.


Icemage

[Amele]

I disagree.

/sigh. the whole point of those two statements was that shit is situational.

in a perfect world, yes, a linkshell would recognize which whitemages to put in what roles. and cure speed is better if you spend any significant time healing people outside your own party (where regen isn't applicable at all.) or use large numbers of curaga's (where regen is still applicable but speed is more critical due to the longer cast time.) conversely, if you're -never- responsible for people outside your own party, smart play would allow you to maximize regen better, especially if you have a tank that's got a decent amount of HP and isn't in danger of being randomly one-shot.

Barspell effect is great for endgame, but totally useless everywhere else. Not everyone wants or needs it, and other choices are equally valid (well, except Banish effect - that one just sucks).

did you even read the entire sentence? should have for endgame. although it's damn useful in low-man situations that aren't hnm that most level 75's will want to try (salvage, limbus) and in the endgame that anyone who bothers to merit for will play in anyway (dynamis). just because you don't have to worry about Jailer spam or wyrms doesn't mean the trait is suddenly junk, in fact, against some easier stuff it's better because you can force resist rates similar to a full-kit tank, while leaving the tank in 'normal' gear.

the fact of the matter is, no one levels whitemage just to merit on (that's rdm, brd, war, mnk, nin) and if you aren't going to use it in an hnm setting, then it doesn't matter which is better in what situations since you're obviously only using it for your own satisfaction and can merit banish potency if that's what you like.

That's mostly due to the base potency of Regen III and not so much to do with the AF2 briault and/or regen merits.

it's still a 40% boost to regen III.
it's a bloody 120% boost to regen I. seriously.

I like Regen potency well enough; I just don't think it's of much use at endgame considering the scale of damage that you're dealing with compared to the benefits of other abilities you can purchase.

seriously, if you're in a situation where you need the cure speed to keep up with damage (that is, spamming full time with full speed is just enough and spamming full time with just clogs isn't) then there is something wrong.

in either case, I have yet to see an hnmls that didn't want whitemages spec'd both ways, so the call between the two is close enough that it comes down to personal preference and playstyle over which is 'better'. (similar to U/U vs. S/F)



for the record, I'm spec'd barspells and cure speed. Initially I was spec'd regen and curespeed - I rolled back the regen merits because there's enough other whitemages in my linkshell spec'd regen already that we could use the barspell+cure speed more.

[Irisjir Callard]

I'm seeing a lot about hNM's and the different strategies required for them as for other endgame activities. Unfortunately, I don't have the rl play time to hNM camp, or I'd be putting research into the applications of a regen-specialized whm in the king nm scene.

Currently I've only really done dynamis (Can't find a good sky LS and don't want to anymore, too much BS over items of questionable worth) which puts a bit of a cramp on my research. I'd love to join a sky and hnm LS for research purposes just to hit the camps I can and not sweat the ones I can't, but as I said I've yet to find one with an acceptably low drama quotient.

[Hyrist]

Speaking as the Boyfriend with the "Militant Rdm Perspective"

I've seen her pattern from 'over the shoulder' observations and I'm rather confident that her tactic would still hold sound in HNMs.

While I've heard the case for Cure-Speed, there's also the perspective that a consistent flow of HP into the player would also delay his death enough to make up for that negligible lack of "Cure Speed" Especially if there is more than one WHM for that specific group.

I'm honestly of the opinion that "Cure Speed" build WHM's are overplayed, but that is within the context that a Regen-Specialized Whm paired off with a Cure-Speed WHM would have better overall results than two or more of the same.

But I'm speaking out of my league.

I avoid WHM as much as my finance avoids RDM for many of the similar reasons, but tack on the factor that I despise main healing with a passion. (That said I still have it leveled to 37 now...)

[IfritnoItazura]

Hmm. Would it matter how many WHM you have in alliance, if every one of them is slow to cure? Seems like the ideal setup would have one "Regen specialist" and one or more "Fast Cure specialist".

Then again, I've never seen endgame, nor measure cure speed. *shrug* Whatever...

[Necropolis]

While I've heard the case for Cure-Speed, there's also the perspective that a consistent flow of HP into the player would also delay his death enough to make up for that negligible lack of "Cure Speed" Especially if there is more than one WHM for that specific group.

I'd hardley call 20% cast time reduction negligible. 20% is equivalent to all 3 rdm fast cast traits, hat, and AF2 body combined. Combine that with Cure Clogs and I'm casting cures 2/3rds the way through casting. Sub rdm and I'm at nearly 50% cast time reduciton.

it's still a 40% boost to regen III.
it's a bloody 120% boost to regen I. seriously.

Sure it's a nice little boost, but depending on play style is nearly useless in many scenarios. Espeicially if you have whms that are overcuring and keeping tanks at 100%. All those regen merits are going to waste.

And the savings in MP is not that great with Regen III. Regen III recovers about 400 hp for 66 mp. Cure IV will recover significantly more for 88mp, and will do it immediatly. The only advantage I see in regen in this case is enmity.

seriously, if you're in a situation where you need the cure speed to keep up with damage (that is, spamming full time with full speed is just enough and spamming full time with just clogs isn't) then there is something wrong.

Well that would depend heavily on play stlyles of your LS, or who you do events with. If you're partaking in the growing trend of melee zerging things like Vrtra or Bahamut V2, regen doesn't play a part in there anywhere. Mainly because the people "tanking" are the ones doing the most damage, which is usually a kraken/octave dark knight.

Now that doesn't apply to everyone, some still do these mobs in a more traditional way, but most HNMs, gods, or even some dynamis mobs hit tanks hard.

Many use pld/nin tanks for wyrms and other HNMs, but some still blood tank, so regen could have a use there in addition to cure cast times.

Gods are fairly short fights, and regen could help there, depending on party set up and if you have a back up tank or not, but even still, I'd rather know I can get a cure 5 for 800+ hp in a second as oppoed to recovered an extra 5hp/tick.

Dynamis, the tanks are usually curing themselves fairly ful that regen isn't do much. 100 fist NMs I'll usually throw a regen before engaging and a flash when they start 100 fist. Ice zone dynamis the quad-strike move usually hits our extremly well geared aegis pld for 250+. So I don't see regen being that helpful unless you're engaging one mobs every 30 seconds or so.

I do like regen for non-priority members that need cures and where I need to watch hate. Rdm's after convert, mnks that take a hit or two, things like that. Toss a regen, and if thier still in the yellow, they'll be a bit more cautious about pulling hate.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmm. Would it matter how many WHM you have in alliance, if every one of them is slow to cure? Seems like the ideal setup would have one "Regen specialist" and one or more "Fast Cure specialist".

Then again, I've never seen endgame, nor measure cure speed. *shrug* Whatever...

It would depend on the stratgy that's being used, in my opinion. Personally if I'm going a full alliance event, I'd much rather only have 2 whms and the rest tanks/DDs/support. Sure you could have a 3rd or even 4th whm, but personally I'd think that would prolong the fight, while it would offer a larger degree of security.

In my experience, on things like kings or alliance fights in generaly, we use pld/nin tanks. To make up for the lack of voke, they become the main hearlers, and whm are there for "oh shi~" moments. Like when the pld gets terroized and such. And between refresh and ballad, MP rarly becomes and issue. I'm recovering 7 or 8 mp/sec, and the plds are getting 8 or 9. Throw in a devotion and we're fairly set, and don't have to worry about the waster mp by using cure over regen, or the occasional overcure.

[Amele]

I'd hardley call 20% cast time reduction negligible. 20% is equivalent to all 3 rdm fast cast traits, hat, and AF2 body combined.

no. it's -half- as effective. (read the section on fast cast again; the percentages given in the wiki are the recast reductions, the cast reductions are double.

Combine that with Cure Clogs and I'm casting cures 2/3rds the way through casting. Sub rdm and I'm at nearly 50% cast time reduciton.

just so everyone knows what scale we're talking, the base cast time for cure III/IV/V is 2.5 seconds. recasts are 6/8/10. so we are talking shaving approximately 1 second off the cast and recast times. (with /rdm is closer to 1.2 and 2 seconds).

Sure it's a nice little boost, but depending on play style is nearly useless in many scenarios. Espeicially if you have whms that are overcuring and keeping tanks at 100%. All those regen merits are going to waste.(emphasis mine).

in this situation cure speed is going to waste too, except for guaranteeing that it's the -other- healer who's overcuring and not you. and if they happen to be spec'd cure speed too (as you're suggesting all whitemages do) then they'll have an even harder time canceling a cure once they start it, since it reduces the interruption window.


And the savings in MP is not that great with Regen III. Regen III recovers about 400 hp for 66 mp. Cure IV will recover significantly more for 88mp, and will do it immediatly. The only advantage I see in regen in this case is enmity.

learn your numbers better or stop arguing based on numbers. - (for the record) regen III is the least efficient regen; Cure IV is the most efficient of the soft-capped cures. (cure V is potentially more efficient but is dependent on what stats you have.)

Regen III with no merits/gear: 20hp/tick for 20 ticks. (400HP), 6.06hp/mp
Regen III with briault: 23hp/tick for 20 ticks. (460HP), 6.96hp/mp
Regen III with briault+merits: 28hp/tick for 20 ticks. (560HP), 8.48hp/mp

(ignoring the softcap breaks, to reapply add your softcap to each of these, +1 at +20%, +2 at 50%) 380HP base here.
Cure IV with basic cure potency (light staff): 418 HP, 4.75 hp/mp
Cure IV with standard cure potency (+nobles): 456 HP, 5.18 hp/mp
Cure IV with superior cure potency (+latent/lightsday etc): 494 HP, 5.61 hp/mp
Cure IV with maximum* cure potency: 672 HP, 7.64 hp/mp

*maximum potency is: 10% staff, +12% aristo, +10% med ring, +15% healing feather, in temenos on lightsday with a korin obi: +30%; for a total of: 77%.

as demonstrated, the efficiency comparison isn't even close. (it's downright silly with regen I. a full spec regen I is 275hp for 15mp -> 18.3 hp/mp)

and as for significantly more? maybe versus proto-ultima. lol


Well that would depend heavily on play stlyles of your LS, or who you do events with. If you're partaking in the growing trend of melee zerging things like Vrtra or Bahamut V2, regen doesn't play a part in there anywhere. Mainly because the people "tanking" are the ones doing the most damage, which is usually a kraken/octave dark knight.

I disagree, Regen is a key part of this general strategy, you can't always get a cure in in time for the next swing round and regen will add a couple points of damage during souleater. it also gives additional ticks of hp that since you are zerging rarely do people get consistently overcured (there's too many targets). regen works as a convenient fire and forget for jobs that took some damage but aren't about to take more, especially if you're low on healing power.


Now that doesn't apply to everyone, some still do these mobs in a more traditional way, but most HNMs, gods, or even some dynamis mobs hit tanks hard.
Many use pld/nin tanks for wyrms and other HNMs, but some still blood tank, so regen could have a use there in addition to cure cast times.

pld/nin tanks benefit more from regen potency than cure speed because in general, you aren't curing them. most paladins will request regen though, since, surprise! they know it's there to fall back on if they get interrupted at a bad time. it's still healing them even when you're busy, when they're busy and every one else is silenced/stoned/terrored etc etc.

Gods are fairly short fights, and regen could help there, depending on party set up and if you have a back up tank or not, but even still, I'd rather know I can get a cure 5 for 800+ hp in a second as oppoed to recovered an extra 5hp/tick.

it's closer to 1.5 seconds of sheer cast time, and an additional some quantity of time (in the area of 1 second) for you to recognize you a) need a Cure V, b) issue the command via macro, and c) get the command ratified by the server. so ~2.5 seconds vs 3.5.

so you've got about a 1 second jump on your non-spec'd whitemage brethren, and if for some reason you're not using clogs (say for enmity) and they are (say because they tend to idle in en-2 cleric's while you're idling in noble's) then your cure speed gap is almost totally gone. and they cure for 800+hp too.

regen helps more in longer fights anyway, by keeping your enmity down. unless you're in a linkshell that enjoys sufficiently high attendance to rotate healers throughout the fight; in which case, endurance based merits are somewhat less useful (you'll still be able to stay in longer, since you have better mp efficiency and less enmity generation.)

Dynamis, the tanks are usually curing themselves fairly ful that regen isn't do much. 100 fist NMs I'll usually throw a regen before engaging and a flash when they start 100 fist. Ice zone dynamis the quad-strike move usually hits our extremly well geared aegis pld for 250+. So I don't see regen being that helpful unless you're engaging one mobs every 30 seconds or so.

aegis has little to do with quadrastrike, since it's physical. (sure sure, block rate.) it's not directly reducing the damage and aegis block rate is not 100%.

regen isn't for main tanks in dynamis anyway - it's for supporting the rest of the people in aoe-range.


It would depend on the stratgy that's being used, in my opinion. Personally if I'm going a full alliance event, I'd much rather only have 2 whms and the rest tanks/DDs/support. Sure you could have a 3rd or even 4th whm, but personally I'd think that would prolong the fight, while it would offer a larger degree of security.

generally speaking, 2-3 whitemages depending on what's available and what we're fighting (ultima gets 3 for instance, jormungand gets 4, but two are usually in add party, etc.) most kings are 2, etc.

in the case of adding an additional whitemage, it only prolongs the fight if you can make a 'flawless' kill with fewer, as soon as people start dying, the fight slows down past the point where having one fewer DD and no deaths would've been faster.

In my experience, on things like kings or alliance fights in generaly, we use pld/nin tanks. To make up for the lack of voke, they become the main hearlers, and whm are there for "oh shi~" moments. Like when the pld gets terroized and such. And between refresh and ballad, MP rarly becomes and issue. I'm recovering 7 or 8 mp/sec, and the plds are getting 8 or 9. Throw in a devotion and we're fairly set, and don't have to worry about the waster mp by using cure over regen, or the occasional overcure.

not needing to worry about wasting mp is an ideal situation (and I realize it does happen reasonably often.) but in this situation, with whitemage as a support healer, I'd argue that regen is more useful, because that role is not being subsumed by another player.

the simple fact of the matter is: there's more than one way to viably merit an endgame whitemage (there's at least two, and most people would agree there's three) and trying to claim that one spec is better than another in every situation is shortsighted at best.

[Kirsteena]

At which point I would make sure you have a balanced spread within your ls - no point everyone going for regen and ignoring the benefits of Cure Cast time...

[Amele]

At which point I would make sure you have a balanced spread within your ls - no point everyone going for regen and ignoring the benefits of Cure Cast time...

oh definitely. same with barspells (although if you were to pick one of the three for -every- whitemage to have, it'd be this one).

I changed my spec to improve balance in my linkshell after all. (cure/regen to cure/barspell) since we had lots of regen and not much barspell. if we'd had lots of cure, I'd have rolled back the cure speed instead of regen.

[Irisjir Callard]

~~General snip because I don't know how to do spoiler bars off the top of my head~~


It was posts and breakdowns like these that originally convinced me that regen in general was the way to go.

However, I think something might be off in your math on regen potency, or for some reason I have another factor influencing my regen, because by your math I should have 24/tick and I currently have 25/tick (I was playing around with the three tiers last night in dynamis). Small offset, I know, but it's the small details that drive my method.





The other thing about cure cast time that I'm highly skeptical of is cure cast time =/= haste. As I understand it, cure cast time lowers the EFFECT POINT of the spell, but does not speed up the casting SPEED at all. Ergo, even though you already spent the MP and handed out the HP, you're still casting the same bloody spell and can't move on to other tasks.

GRANTED, I have had a number of situations where I've had someone die mid-cure and I've said to myself "Man cure speed would have saved that life." On the same key, I've seen my Regen do some pretty fabulous things too. I've seen it do more to help a PLD's mp than refresh would. I've seen it save lives while I was digging for an echo drop. For all that matter, I've seen a regen I previously casted, then overlay with a cure that pulled hate and got me killed keep my party alive while I was facedown in the mud.

But being tied up with spells that take the same amount of casting time no matter what, even if the spell's already taken effect, doesn't seem like a terribly sound strategy to me. Regens are longer-casting spells than cures in general, so I'm used to budgeting cast time in addition to MP. I would find cure speed to be a much more viable meriting strategy if it didn't mean I still spent the same time casting a spell as before the merits.



Another thing I was wondering about. How come there aren't global haste merits in with the enimity and critical hit rate? I wouldn't mind seeing movement speed merits as well. Both of those would be better for some jobs than others, but they seem like obvious options that SE skipped over for some reason.

[Amele]

It was posts and breakdowns like these that originally convinced me that regen in general was the way to go.
However, I think something might be off in your math on regen potency, or for some reason I have another factor influencing my regen, because by your math I should have 24/tick and I currently have 25/tick (I was playing around with the three tiers last night in dynamis). Small offset, I know, but it's the small details that drive my method.

well, regen merits are +1 per, and the body is +1/+2/+3 (by tier). with bases of: 5, 12, and 20. if you had (as you say) 24/tick, and were observing 25. I'd ask who you hit with regen: several jobs have gear that gives an auto-regen trait, besides the usual whm-subjob 'culprit' lol.

The other thing about cure cast time that I'm highly skeptical of is cure cast time =/= haste. As I understand it, cure cast time lowers the EFFECT POINT of the spell, but does not speed up the casting SPEED at all. Ergo, even though you already spent the MP and handed out the HP, you're still casting the same bloody spell and can't move on to other tasks.

I would find cure speed to be a much more viable meriting strategy if it didn't mean I still spent the same time casting a spell as before the merits.

nothing actually speeds up the bar, but you can start moving as soon as the spell triggers, recast timers start at this point too. I'm not sure if auto-attack delay starts again, it's tough to make a rigorous test of this. the primary advantage to cure speed is that it triggers sooner, so you have a smaller window for being interrupted and a smaller delay between when you start casting and your target gets the hp.

Haste in particular, only affects recast, it has no effect on casting time at all.


Another thing I was wondering about. How come there aren't global haste merits in with the enimity and critical hit rate? I wouldn't mind seeing movement speed merits as well. Both of those would be better for some jobs than others, but they seem like obvious options that SE skipped over for some reason.

global haste isn't there because of how broken haste is in terms of damage increase (there's a reason that players sacrifice all kinds of stats to get to 22-25% haste on melee jobs)

global movement speed isn't there because it would make certain strategies even more viable, and would devalue several major pieces of gear (gaiters, w.legs, striders, etc.)

this isn't to say that SE won't add these at some time in the future, but both stats are very very powerful (more so than the other general stats) and are available only in limited and mostly stacking restricted forms.

[Irisjir Callard]

well, regen merits are +1 per, and the body is +1/+2/+3 (by tier). with bases of: 5, 12, and 20. if you had (as you say) 24/tick, and were observing 25. I'd ask who you hit with regen: several jobs have gear that gives an auto-regen trait, besides the usual whm-subjob 'culprit' lol.

All /nin or /drg and I don't THINK there was any kind of regen gear. The one I was noticing in particular was a mnk, but don't ask me what he was wearing...but I love mnks for regen measurements because they have such huge HP bars, that they can be missing a large # of HP without missing a large % and triggering other whm's to cure them.

nothing actually speeds up the bar, but you can start moving as soon as the spell triggers, recast timers start at this point too. I'm not sure if auto-attack delay starts again, it's tough to make a rigorous test of this. the primary advantage to cure speed is that it triggers sooner, so you have a smaller window for being interrupted and a smaller delay between when you start casting and your target gets the hp.

Moving? What do I need to move for? Do I gotta run to the side so the mob doesn't hit me?
Recast? I don't cast the same thing twice in a row, that's an even worse waste of time while I stand around and wait for the spell to come up again. The REASON we have tiers of spell is so we don't have to cast the same one over and over.
Attack? I'm attacking? OK so maybe while I'm soloing this might be a factor, but this has been a pt-oriented discussion so far.

I can see the benefit of reducing interrupt rates, at the same time, with a low enimity regen build, interrupt rates become negligible anyway...which is one MORE reason I prefer regen tactics to cure tactics.

No, my point is, the way I do things, I have a 'stack' of spells that I hand out in swift order of priority, without pausing for breath between one and the next. Time between the 'effect point' and when I can start casting another spell is negligible.

But by contrast, if I was cure-speed merited, I would be standing around AFTER the effect point waiting for the cast bar to reach 100% before I could start casting another spell.

Wasted time, imho. I'd rather be moving on to the next in my priority list.

[Amele]

All /nin or /drg and I don't THINK there was any kind of regen gear. The one I was noticing in particular was a mnk, but don't ask me what he was wearing...but I love mnks for regen measurements because they have such huge HP bars, that they can be missing a large # of HP without missing a large % and triggering other whm's to cure them.

probably Melee cyclas then (relic body, regen effect and HP+5%) although there's six or seven other pieces melee of various jobs might wear.

Moving? What do I need to move for? Do I gotta run to the side so the mob doesn't hit me?
Recast? I don't cast the same thing twice in a row, that's an even worse waste of time while I stand around and wait for the spell to come up again. The REASON we have tiers of spell is so we don't have to cast the same one over and over.

certain higher tier fights require more careful positioning/actively running out of the range of certain large radius abilities and/or kiting a mob in a large area (especially certain low-man strategies) so moving can be quite relevant depending on what you're doing.

likewise with multiple tiers: you can back to back alternate certain spells much easier with a slightly reduced recast (mostly III/V or III/IV or IV/V depending on what you're doing) which is necessary in some circumstances short term.

I can see the benefit of reducing interrupt rates, at the same time, with a low enimity regen build, interrupt rates become negligible anyway...which is one MORE reason I prefer regen tactics to cure tactics.

assuming you have the luxury of being out of aoe-range normally, yes. not every fight (and especially not higher tier fights) give you this luxury. - so there are situations where being that little bit less likely to be interrupted will help.


But by contrast, if I was cure-speed merited, I would be standing around AFTER the effect point waiting for the cast bar to reach 100% before I could start casting another spell.
Wasted time, imho. I'd rather be moving on to the next in my priority list.

it's not really wasted time if you would be spending it anyway (it's not like meriting cure speed makes your spells slower or something!)


basically, same thing I said in responses to Icemage: both are viable choices for merit and both have their place.

[Callisto]

The other thing about cure cast time that I'm highly skeptical of is cure cast time =/= haste. As I understand it, cure cast time lowers the EFFECT POINT of the spell, but does not speed up the casting SPEED at all. Ergo, even though you already spent the MP and handed out the HP, you're still casting the same bloody spell and can't move on to other tasks.

Just a note from a FC5 RDM on this: No the casting bar doesn't move faster, but if the spell casts at a low %, you can start casting your next spell before the bar is done getting to 100%. Example, say I cast Stoneskin or Raise, something with a reasonably long casting time. At FC5 my spells fire off around 45-50%, but the casting bar is still climbing after the spell has taken affect. Once the casting animation reaches the poing where my hand lowers back down, I can start casting the next spell, regardless of whether the bar has finished getting to 100% or not. The rest of the bar is just cut off by the casting bar of the new spell. Generally the point where I can do this is when the bar is at about 80-85%, saving me between 1-4 seconds depending on the spell.

As far as if 'Cure Speed' works like true Fast Cast in that recast timers are also lowered I'm not sure about. But taking off of the casting speed will allow you to move on to the next task a couple of seconds earlier, which in an endgame situation can many times make the difference between a tank living or dying.

[Icemage]

Echo what Callisto says above: Casting speed doesn't affect recast timers at all, but it does give you the opportunity to start your next action (spell, attack, whatever) as soon as the spell takes effect, so yes, your total casting time is indeed reduced.

There's also some sort of limit to cure speed; with Cure Clogs (15%), merits (20%), and /RDM (10%), I don't get the expected cast at 35% on the spellcasting bar.. it's more like 41 or 42% as best I can tell.

Not that anyone is going to be using /RDM much, but it's a curious point nonetheless.


Icemage

[Amele]

Echo what Callisto says above: Casting speed doesn't affect recast timers at all, but it does give you the opportunity to start your next action (spell, attack, whatever) as soon as the spell takes effect, so yes, your total casting time is indeed reduced.
There's also some sort of limit to cure speed; with Cure Clogs (15%), merits (20%), and /RDM (10%), I don't get the expected cast at 35% on the spellcasting bar.. it's more like 41 or 42% as best I can tell.
Not that anyone is going to be using /RDM much, but it's a curious point nonetheless.
Icemage

did you do a rigorous test? 40% is the 'halfway' mark from the baseline trigger point, so I'm curious if there is a floor or not. (it sounds like you may have found one but I would be curious what you did to test this)

[Callisto]

I'm currently 31/75 towards a Loq Earring, I'll test this both before and after I get one. It can be hard to tell just by eyeballing it sometimes, but if I understand the math correctly:

the normal trigger point is 80%; my FC5 would reduce casting time by 40%. I'm not sure if that means 40% of the casting bar, or 40% of the 80% trigger point though, but based on the eyeballing I'm leaning towards the latter.

If that's the case it's knocking off 40% of 80 which is 32, so my trigger point would now be 48%. I want to say when I look at it, it seems more like 44%~, but it depends on what I'm casting. Longer casting spells seem to cast at a lower % than faster ones, but maybe that's just the way it appears b/c the actual casting animation once the spell triggers isn't any faster during fast spells.

With the Loq Earring my casting time reduction would be 42%, as the earring has a reduction of 2%. 42% of 80 is 33.6, which would bring my trigger point to about 46%.

If the casting time reduction is actually a % of the full 100% casting bar, and not of the 80% trigger, it would be an even greater reduction, with my trigger points without and with Loq Earring being 40% and 38%, respectively.

I'll test all this out. If something in my math or understanding of the mechanics looks flawed lemme know, I haven't taken a math class in about 6 years now and I drink alot, I'm not sure how much of my computing ability I've still retained.

[Icemage]

My understanding of fast cast and cure speed traits is that each 1% reduces the required time on the spellcasting bar by a full 1%. Each RDM trait gives 5% improvement, each piece of RDM AF with the trait gives an additional 5% so with Fast Cast 5 (3 RDM traits, AF, AF2) you should be looking at 80% base - 25% = 55% on the spellcasting bar for spell completion.

As I mentioned above, my (non-rigorous, how would you test it for certain?) tests left me with spellcasts on Curaga IV at no better than about 41% on the casting bar, give or take 1-2%. Curaga IV was used because it has the longest casting time of any Cure spell. The results I saw were not consistent with what I should have been seeing as WHM/RDM with Cure Clogs, level 5 Cure speed merit and /RDM subjob (80% - 15% - 20% - 10% = 35% projected activation time).


Icemage

[WishMaster3K]

Certain gear doesn't always give the same Fast Cast.

For instance, Loc Erring is only 1 or 2% reduction in casting time.

Look it up on the wiki (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Fast_Cast)

[Amele]

My understanding of fast cast and cure speed traits is that each 1% reduces the required time on the spellcasting bar by a full 1%. Each RDM trait gives 5% improvement, each piece of RDM AF with the trait gives an additional 5% so with Fast Cast 5 (3 RDM traits, AF, AF2) you should be looking at 80% base - 25% = 55% on the spellcasting bar for spell completion.
As I mentioned above, my (non-rigorous, how would you test it for certain?) tests left me with spellcasts on Curaga IV at no better than about 41% on the casting bar, give or take 1-2%. Curaga IV was used because it has the longest casting time of any Cure spell. The results I saw were not consistent with what I should have been seeing as WHM/RDM with Cure Clogs, level 5 Cure speed merit and /RDM subjob (80% - 15% - 20% - 10% = 35% projected activation time).
Icemage

it's 'double' the % for casting time reduction. so in theory a full merit whm/rdm with clogs should be seeing:


80 - 15 - 20 - 20 = 25% which should've been quite obvious versus 41% ish

I'm betting there's a floor at 40% or so (conveniently the same amount that a rdm/x in chapeau and tabard reaches)

if you run the math in the other direction (80% * .45 = 36% however) so the discrepancy might be down to lag/etc.


curaga IV is how I would test it too, I usually test in la thiene plateau, far enough away from the telepoint crystal that it's not being drawn, in an attempt to minimize everything that might cause spell/frame slowdown. one good way to test would be to cast without say, the cure clogs. and see if it makes a visible difference.

[Kirsteena]

I had to raise my meripo last night (bad links, shit happens), and was playing about with Fast Cast while raising them. I've got all the Fast Cast Gear rdm can wear, and raise was firing around about the 45% mark. Maybe a bit before, maybe a bit after. My connection at home is a bit crap so hard to tell at times.

I think the floor will be somewhere about the 42% mark. The earring doesn't make a substantial difference, but that extra 1 or 2% might be fun to play about with.

I guess I should test with whm at some point, once I have merited cure cast time. Blm is getting my merit love atm.

[Irisjir Callard]

Just a note from a FC5 RDM on this: No the casting bar doesn't move faster, but if the spell casts at a low %, you can start casting your next spell before the bar is done getting to 100%.


REALLY NOW.


Well this is news to me. I was under the impression one couldn't cast until the cast bar had finished.

This opens up all KINDS of intriguing possibilities to me.


As far as I care, then, if I can start casting after the EFFECT POINT, we might as well just say the bar moves faster. In which case cure speed merits are imho a much more viable option.

[WishMaster3K]

/sarcasm

?

[Irisjir Callard]

no, that genuinely was news to me, lol.

[WishMaster3K]

OH lol... Well I always noticed that on longer spells, such as Raise or Stoneskin, I can start casting before they're fully done, mostly because I finish around 65ish. I think. I only have an AF hat as FC additional gear.

[Callisto]

I was going to test out my FC using Reraise, since I can cast that as both my RDM and my WHM, and it has a nice long casting time which makes it easier to see what % it's casting at. I'll do so tonight and post it tomorrow.

[Icemage]

REALLY NOW.

Well this is news to me. I was under the impression one couldn't cast until the cast bar had finished.

This opens up all KINDS of intriguing possibilities to me.

As far as I care, then, if I can start casting after the EFFECT POINT, we might as well just say the bar moves faster. In which case cure speed merits are imho a much more viable option.
I can confirm that you can indeed start casting a new spell the moment the spell activation triggers.

Note that you MUST have good timing for this; the kicker is that the spellcasting bar will trigger, but you must start the next action before the bar hits 100% or you're going to lock into the animation and won't start your next action until the animation ends.

This is very noticeable with lots of Fast Cast and/or Cure Speed, which is why most RDMs are aware of it. Bards, too, are well aware of this, as they have the longest spellcasting bars in the game and can take advantage of this feature even with no Fast Cast gear equipped at all.


Icemage

[Irisjir Callard]

I'm going to have to play with this for a while. It's instinctive for me to rely on regen over cures, but I do slip into curespamming when I feel lazy.