why don't you get rid of the 56K restriction?

[Shadowneko]

If you didn't know already FFXI is capped at 56K(for modems) for sending and receving data. I wish they'd raise that cap(uhh it could be an unfair adavantage just to totally do away with it...like for NMs and such)...I mean alot of us run on broadband nowadays and it would so kill lag durring events like beseged.

Why can't SE raise the cap up to 768k broadband or something?


Note about broadband costs:

When me and my dad got DSL we figured out that at the time it cost about as much as dial-up + a second phone line(we hate to get kicked off if someone calls us). Dial-up got cheaper now with some people but the calcualtion is about the same: $10-$20 for dial-up and $20-40 for a second phone line(even with no long-distance).

Cheap DSL(768K) from Bellsouth/AT&T(sorry I don't know everyone's prices) costs $30 a month...I saw their special XD

persoannly the only reason I'd have dial-up is if I got stuck in a dead zone...

[Taskmage]

That would be so awesome. I'm sure it would break with some policy they have somewhere so they wouldn't do it, but that would be so awesome. To be able to actually consistently see "Nightmare Cactaur readies 10000 needles" or wtf just killed you in besieged ... /shiver

[Mhurron]

Some of us have to play on 56k.

[Pai Pai Master]

Indeed, more people use 56k than a lot of others realize. Broadband is still not as affordable as dial-up.

[InuTrunks]

Just because you're raising the cap, dosn't mean you're killing off your 56k users. This game is not a PVP Centric game, it's a PvE game, the people on dialup won't see any difference in gameplay at all.

I say raise it.

[Mhurron]

Indeed, more people use 56k than a lot of others realize. Broadband is still not as affordable as dial-up.
It's also simply not available in a lot of areas. Remember, the US has the worst broadband penetration of any western nation.

[Sevv]

I could go for a raise in the cap, at most it would hurt on nm camps, which if someone is botting it really doesn't matter anyways lol.

[Mhurron]

Just because you're raising the cap, dosn't mean you're killing off your 56k users. This game is not a PVP Centric game, it's a PvE game, the people on dialup won't see any difference in gameplay at all.
I say raise it. Yes you will. It would no longer work correctly on a 56k line. The game saturates a dialup line as it is and you want to try and push more down pretending that it won't make the game unplayable on a 56k connection?

[DakAttack]

I don't think they'd be be pushing more down, rather allowing for us to recieve more of what's currently being pushed down.

[Mhurron]

I don't think they'd be be pushing more down, rather allowing for us to recieve more of what's currently being pushed down.
Its the same thing. SE does not cap your line, but the Server only sends so much so that a 56k connection can receive it all. Much more and you would end up creating so much lag on a dialup connection that the game would be unplayable.

"Oh sorry, I didn't see that link, I'm on 56k and I guess I didn't get all the info in time."

/partycmd kick Mhurron

[DakAttack]

Understood.

[Taskmage]

If that's the case then possibly there could be a setting clientside that lets the server know how much data you're capable of recieving?

[Mhurron]

If that's the case then possibly there could be a setting clientside that lets the server know how much data you're capable of recieving?
How do you prioirtize it then? If it's sending larger packets to a broadband customer, how does the game decide what gets sent first and what gets sent later?

Does the game decide if you miss that magic burst (not really a problem now but whatever) but see that mob over there, or do you see that the skill chain went off but not the mob that might be wandering into aggro range.

[Taskmage]

I don't know. How does it decide what information gets send and doesn't currently? Damage dealt and taken by you/party/alliance seems to have a very high priority, but "special actions" seem very low (e.g. only sometimes see "readies 10000 needles," but always see damage for every person in alliance). When I cast Stun on something in dynamis, I'll very often see the message for stun wearing off severals seconds before I get the message that I cast and landed the spell, only obviously that happened first since I don't see "wear off" effects for other people's spells. It seems like the server is already doing that work.

[Aeni]

Removing the restriction would be a good way to go about doing things, but you have to remember that SE's own routers will be bogged down with the amount of data blowing through those lines. In a sense it is capped because it would be costly otherwise for SE.

I feel the real difference is during patching. I am sick and tired of waiting 7 hours to do a full patching from original installation discs when I know on a DSL line, I should be done in 1/10 that time.

[Yellow Mage]

Lowest Common Denominators suck: you can't do away with them, but there's only so much you can do with them, and, therefore, so much you can do with everybody else . . .

/glare "PS2"

EDIT:

Removing the restriction would be a good way to go about doing things, but you have to remember that SE's own routers will be bogged down with the amount of data blowing through those lines. In a sense it is capped because it would be costly otherwise for SE.

I feel the real difference is during patching. I am sick and tired of waiting 7 hours to do a full patching from original installation discs when I know on a DSL line, I should be done in 1/10 that time.

Quoted. For. So. Much. Truth.

I can't tell you how many times my computer tries to download the patch, and, after forever, I get some kind of error. Rinse and repeat. :vent:

AGAIN EDIT: Why don't the smilies work when I type them out? :huh:

[Mhurron]

I don't know. How does it decide what information gets send and doesn't currently? Damage dealt and taken by you/party/alliance seems to have a very high priority, but "special actions" seem very low (e.g. only sometimes see "readies 10000 needles," but always see damage for every person in alliance). When I cast Stun on something in dynamis, I'll very often see the message for stun wearing off severals seconds before I get the message that I cast and landed the spell, only obviously that happened first since I don't see "wear off" effects for other people's spells. It seems like the server is already doing that work.
It doesn't. What you're seeing is UDP packets arriving out of order.

Currently the packets are created at such a size that a standard 56k connection (which does not use a 1500b packet, or the 13-1400 that PPoE DSL uses, usually on the order of 4-500b, sometimes smaller) that everything you need to know fits in one packet. What the OP is asking for is to expand that packet size limitation. In order to do that, the packet would have to be fragmented. This is either going to happen at a router (no involvement from SE) or at the server end (your idea). If it is the server sending out multiple packets then it has to make multiple small ones, but at this point then the server has to decide what is more important for you to see.

None of it really matters, as eventually those on 56k would only be able to get the worst parties and worst LS's because they would always be lagging, and always be missing important data.

[Aeni]

None of it really matters, as eventually those on 56k would only be able to get the worst parties and worst LS's because they would always be lagging, and always be missing important data.

They apparently miss "certain" parts of chat as well. "I didn't see that." "I was lagging." /sigh

:(

[Feba]

If you didn't know already FFXI is capped at 56K(for modems) for sending and receving data. I wish they'd raise that cap(uhh it could be an unfair adavantage just to totally do away with it...like for NMs and such)...I mean alot of us run on broadband nowadays and it would so kill lag durring events like beseged.
Why can't SE raise the cap up to 768k broadband or something?
I don't think uncapping bandwidth would do much for anyone outside of besiege, and maybe dynamis. From what I understand, NM spawn info is sent before it spawns, and it tells the client "Ok, monster appears at x time", which is how people used to teleport to monsters 'before' they spawned. It might've changed, though.

Keep in mind though that during things like Besieged and Dynamis, the server and the client probably have more trouble keeping up than the connection between them.

[Taskmage]

Well what, if anything, could be done to make sure those UDP packets actually arrive? The worst part imo is not getting notifications at all that a mob is readying an attack, or a party member has recieved some important status effect, or wtf is hitting you at all in besieged. Is that kind of crap just endemic to the protocol?

[DakAttack]

So, if other games can accomodate slow connections with out much trouble, why can't FFXI?

[Mhurron]

No, the nature of UDP is that its stateless, unreliable (compared to TCP) but fast. The only real way to ensure packets arrive in a certain order would be to use TCP as a transport instead, which would make the game mostly unplayable in every situation.

What uncapping the connection by letting the server send larger packets would do to 56k would cause the occasional out of order arrival happen pretty much with every packet. The game would be unplayable on 56k for doing anything more then just sitting there.

[Mhurron]

So, if other games can accomodate slow connections with out much trouble, why can't FFXI?
I have never seen a game that requires constant updates between clients and the servers handle 56k so well.

I don't know what connections you've used the game over, but I have gone from 8mb cable, to a T1 to a 56k connection. The game works exactly the same, and I do mean exactly the same, over all of them. Shocked the hell out of me. When they said they tried to make it playable over a dialup connection, they meant it.

[DakAttack]

I haven't used a 56k connection is years so I wouldn't know what it's like to play any other game under it. It still doesn't seem to be a problem for any other game out there.

They should just give us a choice. We can choose servers based on our cap preference.

[Mhurron]

Most online games now simply say broadband required. Fewer and fewer companies bother with trying to make things work on anything less then obscenely fast.

FFXI really does not have a problem in this area. Most people just complain about it because its a 'limitation.'

[Feba]

Well what, if anything, could be done to make sure those UDP packets actually arrive?

well, we'd probably have to upgrade the internet.

[Aeni]

Most online games now simply say broadband required. Fewer and fewer companies bother with trying to make things work on anything less then obscenely fast.

WoW runs on 56K, with a very large chunk of the 5+ million NA accounts on that connection. Don't try to make a hero out of SE just because they decided to stick with their 56K limitation. If anything, they're just being financially considerate about it (You realize that our monthly rates will go up as much as $3/month on the 1st content ID if they released the cap)

What SE needs to do is that for patches, they need to have additional server banks and lift rate restriction over those.

[Feba]

actually, something like a torrent client might be a better way of distributing patches. Plus, SE could have the torrent run in the background of POL, so you can do other things in POL while you're patching, AND anyone logged into POL (or with a bit of extra work, FFXI) would be helping to patch.

Although I'm not sure how that would work on XBL....

[Aeni]

actually, something like a torrent client might be a better way of distributing patches. Plus, SE could have the torrent run in the background of POL, so you can do other things in POL while you're patching, AND anyone logged into POL (or with a bit of extra work, FFXI) would be helping to patch.

Although I'm not sure how that would work on XBL....

WoW actually has 3 methods of patch distribution:

1. Direct releases (However, this is quite slow during peak times and on 1st day release of a patch)

2. Torrent (Blizzard's own)

3. 3rd Party (i.e., pay for services, like File Front and free services, like through wowwiki.com) - least preferred method due to risk of obtaining virus/trojan/keylogger with the release

But you're on the right track with torrents if SE has a torrent server Feba. I almost forgotten about that option. It can work with XBL as well if SE produces their own torrent built-in with POL client and work with XBL to smooth out any kinks. Should work fine on PS2.