Anyone gettting fustrated with the ps2?

[bri360]

In recent interviews about WOTG, and just in the game itself, ive noticed some things. Every time they ask if your going to do stuff like new races, new character design' better graphics etc etc, its always no, no, no.. and why? Because of the PS2, the ps2 is holding this game back from its true potential, this game could have better graphics than WoW by now with alot more content and new races and places, etc etc if it wasn't for the PS2. Anyone think they should drop support of the ps2 and put it onto the ps3, it would be a good business move since the minority or players are on ps2 and moving to the ps3 will greatly extent the games lifespan.

[tdh]

I've been playing FFXI on PS2 since NA Beta. It's given me a ton of fun, and it's been more than worth the FREE price tag I paid for my HDD and the original game.

That having been said, the graphics don't mean anything to me, but there are some things I would really like that the PS2 just cannot give me.

1) Increased resolution. - My Equipment screen takes up my E~N~T~I~R~E screen. Alliance? Forget about it, that takes up half the screen. Got a BRD with retarded macros that are spaced out so it's centered on THEIR screen? Yeah, they take up two lines in my chat log.

2) Greater resourses. - I believe the hardware is the source of a lot of my lag. I have a pretty good 8M/700+kb high speed connection and some places with just my party I find an enormous amount of lag. On a PC with just a lower end video card shows no lag at all.

I believe migrating it to the PS3 would give the option for increased resolution and HD like on the X360, and have enough system resources to prevent a lot of that system lag. I've been really hopeful that they would have announced FFXI being added to the PS3 starting with the new expansion but no dice.

I have no issues with the graphics as I don't really care about them either way. I can see what's going on, so they're good enough for me. But having a larger Locker or a larger Gobby Bag to carry my 8 Elemental Staves, 6 neck pieces, 10 rings and more would seriously make a lot of people happy. I know a few people in my LS that seem to just collect Rare/EX items. I can't even imagine what sort of space issues they have in their Mog House. I have about half as much stuff as they do, and I'm sweating for space.

[Feba]

nah. The PS2 is limited, sure, but it's not that bad. SE would have to be willing to improve the content anyway.

Expansions show that they CAN add new content just fine, obviously they would've had to stop making them for the PS2. They just don't WANT to spend the time doing it. The PS2 is more of a scapegoat than anything else, with the possible exception of inventory space.

And by the way, no, an extremely substantial amount of the playerbase, far more than would be on the 360 and PS3 combined. The PS3 is a flop, forcing PS2 users to buy it would just piss people off.

It would be a horrible business move really. They'd probably lose quite a bit of their Japanese market, and a lot of their NA players as well. The biggest console right now is STILL the PS2, not the Wii, not the 360, and certainly not the PS3.

[IfritnoItazura]

I was predicting more posts like this, but I guess it wasn't in the thread I expected. /sigh

In recent interviews about WOTG, and just in the game itself, ive noticed some things. Every time they ask if your going to do stuff like new races, new character design' better graphics etc etc, its always no, no, no.. and why? Because of the PS2, the ps2 is holding this game back from its true potential, this game could have better graphics than WoW by now with alot more content and new races and places, etc etc if it wasn't for the PS2. Anyone think they should drop support of the ps2 and put it onto the ps3, it would be a good business move since the minority or players are on ps2 and moving to the ps3 will greatly extent the games lifespan.

1. FFXI wouldn't have existed without PS2. At its debut, it needed the luster from the Final Fantasy franchise, and FF at the time was basically about PS2. If you like FFXI, you should thank you lucky stars PS2 existed.

2. About half of players (as of 2006) play on PS2 (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/general-ffxi-discussion/65542-gamasutra-article-creating-global-mmo.html). S-E has reported low adaptation rate for xBox360 version (http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18392&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0). Likelihood of fast migration to the even slower selling PS3? Pretty close to zero. PS2 isn't really "holding FFXI back"--PS2 is keeping FFXI financially profitable.

In short, dropping PS2 support is just about the most moronic business move S-E can possibly do with FFXI.

* * *

And, for your information, FFXI still looks prettier than WoW. Newer graphic engines don't always beat better art assets, thank you very much.

[bri360]

I see alot of people disagree with me? Just to note, I absolutely love this game and its graphics are my favorite out of any MMO because of the style, I just think not now but in the future when the PS3 gets a larger selling market, they should consider moving it over to PS3 and doing a graphical upgrade and adding new content that they said they could not in more than 1 interview like new races, hairstyles etc would be a really good idea. To me it really doesn't matter because I love this game either way and im perfectly fine with it the way it is, its just doing that in the future would make this game more profitable and it would be cool to see what it would look like with really great graphics lol.

[Kailea]

SE already said that making a new MMO would bet in better interest then over hauling FFXI. FFXI is going to stay the way it is, untill it dies.... and if its anything like Everquest...it wont die anytime soon ;p

[Taskmage]

As much as I like to disagree with Kailea whenever I can, he's pretty much right. If SE were to market an MMO on a next-gen platform, it would be a much better move for them to develop a new one from scratch that can fully utilize the console rather than retrofitting a title that's over 4 years old. And it's not just the hardware. There are a lot of design descisions holding the game back that wouldn't be fixed just by moving to a new console: network architecture, interface design, input handling, risk/reward issues with older content, etc. As much as I like FFXI, this was SE's first foray into MMOs and as usual they made a lot of mistakes. I'd love to see the game they could make if they started over with all the lessons they learned in the creation of FFXI applied as their baseline of understanding.

For what it's worth, I think this game looks great on a modern PC, and I'm perfectly pleased with the list of features it has now. More content, more areas, more story, etc .. keep that stuff coming and I'll stay interested.

[Feba]

The only thing I'd like to see is uncapping the PC version somewhat. Let us turn up the draw distance to see the entire zone, let us set to the resolution to whatever we want, let us increase the number of things on screen until our GPUs explode, without having to risk screwing up our computers by registry editing, or using third party programs.

Let's admit it, SE, longer draw distance hasn't done shit for 360. The game looks the same now as it did half a decade ago, and while it's pretty, just those three little tweaks could make the game look so much better. Cities and besiege and dynamis where people and monsters don't appear and disappear due to a character limit. Being able to see the ENTIRE of the 'dragon's spine' in the Mountains, being able to see Castle Xvahl from the cliff on a clear day, and see very clearly, people have already done those through third party means, why can't you just open that up to us?


Although, it's probably worth waiting to see what DX9 brings before we debate graphics (again)

EDIT: To make it clear, when I mean "only thing" I mean "only thing that SE can do without any real effort"

[Eohmer]

Bri360, so the fact that most of the player base is on PS2 means nothing to you?

How would you feel if you were on PS2 and were FORCED to either go PC or PS3?

[bri360]

Bri360, so the fact that most of the player base is on PS2 means nothing to you?

How would you feel if you were on PS2 and were FORCED to either go PC or PS3?
Well most of the player base is on PC, and im not saying they should just do it right now, im saying wait until the user base on ps2 was minimal, then gradually move their support over to 360, ps3 and PC, then after a while drop ps2 support when most have moved over to ps3 or 360/pc. Anyways it doesn't matter, it wont happen and the game is perfectly fine the way it is. All I was saying is that it would be cool to see a more limitless world because this game definitely deserves it. But now that I think about it a better idea would be to make a successor to ffxi like ff14 or something down the road when ffxi starts getting less profitable, which hopefully wont be for a longgggg time. ^^

[Feba]

Well most of the player base is on PC,

Does anyone else remember the good old days?

Back when forums had words, so people could read what other people were talking about?

Goddamn you new age Web 2.0 "Read people's minds" bullshit. Way too fuzzy.

[Mythos]

Well most of the player base is on PC

No, they aren't. As has been pointed out several times.

edit: I am too slow. Already pointed out (more obliquely, but still) above.

[bri360]

Hmmmm ic, well I guess I heard wrong about the ps2 user base being the minority, anyways... You all get what I was trying to get across, good business move or not it would awesome to see a graphically updated ffxi, but it really doesn't matter, I enjoy the game and think it has better graphics, art style, gameplay, and storyline than any other MMO imo and I will continue to enjoy it for a long time. ^^ Besides when it becomes the right time in the future, SE will make another FF MMO, and hopefully it will be just as good if not better than ffxi.

[Taskmage]

The only thing I'd like to see is uncapping the PC version somewhat. Let us turn up the draw distance to see the entire zone, let us set to the resolution to whatever we want, let us increase the number of things on screen until our GPUs explode, without having to risk screwing up our computers by registry editing, or using third party programs.
Let's admit it, SE, longer draw distance hasn't done shit for 360. The game looks the same now as it did half a decade ago, and while it's pretty, just those three little tweaks could make the game look so much better. Cities and besiege and dynamis where people and monsters don't appear and disappear due to a character limit. Being able to see the ENTIRE of the 'dragon's spine' in the Mountains, being able to see Castle Xvahl from the cliff on a clear day, and see very clearly, people have already done those through third party means, why can't you just open that up to us?
Although, it's probably worth waiting to see what DX9 brings before we debate graphics (again)
EDIT: To make it clear, when I mean "only thing" I mean "only thing that SE can do without any real effort"I agree with this. I have my resolution cranked up to 1680x1050 and my map draw distance increased to ~8x the default and the game looks beautiful. Unfortunately, to get those values I have to hack my registry and use a windower plugin, neither of which I feel entirely comfortable doing. These changes do not, I feel, give me an advantage over other players so there's no harm in allowing PC users to change those display settings natively with the 1st party tools. The increase in the visual quality of the game is huge.

[Kuro]

I just wish the game could be run off the DVD mroe than the HDD, Make players swap discs and load up the differnt zreas they enter, it would upp time, but should let them get extra stuff on the HDD.

[MaverickDFZ]

lol, im sorry, the majority of the user base is on PC, an that along side the 360 user base, almost 100% complete user base, as most PS2 users also have the game on another platform...

Id guess the only people that defend this are those that cant afford to buy the game on a second platform, possibly because they spend that money on Gilz, who knows?

Scrap the PS2 version, Supe up the PC version, move the game on...

[Taskmage]

Id guess the people that want to "supe" up the PC version have cheap, 5 year old hardware, possibly since they're gilbuyers and can't afford a decent PC, since the game looks great on my box. :rolleyes:

Quote from the article Itazura linked: “The Japanese audience is about 55% of the entire userbase and play the game on the PS2 in a 2:1 ratio compared against the PC version. North America and European Union make up the remaining 45% and prefer the PC version, with a reversed ratio of 1:2.” Just because you know twice as many people that play on the PC than the PS2 doesn't mean you have the slightest clue what comprises the "100% complete user base."

[Kirsteena]

Dear god, these NA onry players.

Most of the Japanese players play the game on PS2. As of the recent survey, about 50% in total, worldwide play on PS2. SE, a Japanese company, are NOT going to drop support for PS2 no matter how much you whine about it. You can say most people use PC to your hearts content, doesn't make it fact.

For the record, EU players didn't get an option - PC or Xbox360 only. I don't want it on a nearly £500 console thank you very much.

[Feba]

lol, im sorry, the majority of the user base is on PC, an that along side the 360 user base, almost 100% complete user base, as most PS2 users also have the game on another platform...

Excuse me, but where the hell did you buy your skull from? I've been interested in obtaining a lead one to put on my shelf.

since the game looks great on my box.
FFXI is beautiful, don't get me wrong, it's art direction is timeless, It's like Paper Mario or Sonic the Hedgehog (dear god, not for the 360), it's always beautiful. Still, better graphics is hardly ever a bad thing. Look at katamari- yes, the first two games looked wonderful, but they're *improving* still, without ruining their style, that's all people want out of FFXI. Nobody is expecting FF13 or GoW levels, but at least something like Doom 3 would be nice.

EDIT:
I don't want it on a nearly £500 console thank you very much.
Wait wait wait, what?! The 360 is nearly $1000 over there?! I thought even the PS3 was only like 800 some odd USD. I'm hoping you used the wrong symbol there...

[Taskmage]

I'm certainly not going to argue away better graphics if they want to give them to me, but the assertion that SE should "scrap" 25-50% of its users to that end is asinine and insinuating that playing on a PS2 makes you a gilbuyer is beyond asinine.

Edit: Oh and I should add, the first sentence in my previous post was satire. It doesn't represent my position on the matter.

[Eohmer]

So you started off this thread with ...

... this game could have better graphics than WoW by now with alot more content and new races and places, etc etc if it wasn't for the PS2.

... and towards the end, you came up with...

I enjoy the game and think it has better graphics, art style, gameplay, and storyline than any other MMO imo...

Right... :rolleyes:

And if you say it doesn't matter, what was the point of this thread to begin with?

[Kailea]

--------------------------------------
Fixed Post and reposted it further down
--------------------------------------

[Mhurron]

and I get this........... (take with Fraps)
http://www.esnips.com/nsdoc/4dd10ed3-8d71-4543-9861-d6c9659c54b2
http://www.esnips.com/nsdoc/5c12e79b-ce16-4c48-8289-8e61177011b6
http://www.esnips.com/nsdoc/25a2bfc3-bb0e-4751-8b3c-3875a58a9983
Needs a graphics update? na ^.^
If you want to make a point, its best not to try to do it with a service that requires membership.

[Feba]

Lego, I got that.

And Mhurron, your new avatar is weird and scary.

[Kirsteena]

No, Feba, I was talking PS3 - most places I see it, it is £400 for the very basic packages - 360 is a reasonable price don't worry.

I'm sour atm in regards to money, I just paid £800 for my damn car to be fixed. Yup - $1600...

[Feba]

No, Feba, I was talking PS3

Oh, alright, I was gonna say, that seems way too high for a 360.

[Taskmage]

Lego, I got that.
And Mhurron, your new avatar is weird and scary.I figured you did, but your replied seriously to part of it, and I replied seriously to that and I wanted to make sure nobody else construed me as defending the rest of the sentence.

Also, Mhurron's Asuka avatars = win.

[Mhurron]

And Mhurron, your new avatar is weird and scary.
That was the point. It just sucks I had to actually find that frame in the movie and take the screenshot myself.

/doesn't like work

[Feba]

That was the point.

I hate you ;_;

[Callisto]

I still have to play on PS2 at times for PvP and to level jobs outside of RDM/BRD/COR due to macro restrictions...really my only qualm is switching from 360 on a HDTV back to my PS2 is kind of like being punched in the eyes at first, but I get over it. I started on PS2, as did a hell of a lot of the player base. I don't think the game is really being 'held back' at all. It looks fine, and even with the way things are now they're stepping up the animation at times(see the Serpentking Saga quests).

If you have up-to-date hardware, the PS2 isn't holding back the game from looking any better to you, and if SE dropped the PS2 the game would quickly go bankrupt, then you and your mediocre PC would have to go play WoW.

[Kailea]

lol, im sorry, the majority of the user base is on PC, an that along side the 360 user base, almost 100% complete user base, as most PS2 users also have the game on another platform...
Id guess the only people that defend this are those that cant afford to buy the game on a second platform, possibly because they spend that money on Gilz, who knows?
Scrap the PS2 version, Supe up the PC version, move the game on...


hahaha what world do you live in? if you count the world.... not just USA, the biggest account base is on the PS2, I think some where around 50% at least.

Taskmage is right, with a decent PC and tweaked setting the game looks great

Over lay 1440x900
Background 2048x2048
Mip mapping 6
Bump Mapping ON
Texture compression uncompressed
on screen map uncompressed

and I get this........... (take with Fraps)

PIC 1 (http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/9157/pol2007051316264166iv5.png)

PIC 2 (http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/9711/pol2007070817082473no1.jpg)

and for a people that dont want to click links ;p

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5075/pol2007072118115824ay9.png

Needs a graphics update? na ^.^

sorry.... I had it set to public, did not think you needed a membership if I had it set to that -.-


something is wrong with the first two pics it seems.... -.- stupid thing

[Callisto]

I think it looks fine on 360 as well...

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/rprice80/Cal070223225036a.jpg

[Shadowneko]

The graphics are fine...and I'm used to the PS2 XD(I like it and I've even played the PS2 version on my PS3)

The only restriction I wana complain about is I wish they'd drop the 56K modem restrictions from FFXI and cap it abit higher(maybe 768k broadband). When FFXI started I don't think many people had broadband...and nowadays alot of us can't live without it!

If they dropped the 56K cap it'd kill a mess of lag issues including stuff related to beseged...

[zettair]

Unfortunately, most of the United States does not have a broadband connection. I know I am one of them. I love FFXI and would hate to not be able to play it. I know that 56k causes lag issues for others but some people just can't help it. My area will never get broadband as it just isn't profitable for telecom companies to do it and the government will never mandate them to do it.

[Kailea]

removing the 56k cap would actually couse more lag, keeping everyone at one speed, lowers lag, because everyone is running at the same speed.

[Leroy Jenkins]

i say what the heck...ppl with the ps2 that can afford a ps3 should be able to transfer their memory from the ps2 to the ps3 and be able to continue from where they left off. this would mean more updates cuz of the ps3's higher capasity.

[Kuro]

removing the 56k cap would actually couse more lag, keeping everyone at one speed, lowers lag, because everyone is running at the same speed.

How the hell does that work?

[Feba]

How the hell does that work?

Poor Kuro. You need a PhD in Bullshitology to understand what's going on in this topic.

i say what the heck...ppl with the ps2 that can afford a ps3 should be able to transfer their memory from the ps2 to the ps3 and be able to continue from where they left off. this would mean more updates cuz of the ps3's higher capasity.

Or how about we NOT force people to spend five hundred and ninety nine U.S. dollars on something they don't want to play an MMO that they pay for most of, and see how that goes? I personally would rather not see SE shoot itself in the foot.

Although nixing the PS2 right now is more like chopping off your legs. and an arm.

[Kailea]

Think of it like two people running in a three legged race....

Runner A is running at 56k and runner B is running at T1 speed

of course runner B will be bogged down by runner A because he is slower, but if runner B slowed down to runner As 56k speed, then they both would run smoother.

In an MMORPG the speed of your internet does not really matter to your game play, like it does in FPS

but I would love to be able to download patches at my speed -.-

[Shadowneko]

Think of it like two people running in a three legged race....

Runner A is running at 56k and runner B is running at T1 speed

of course runner B will be bogged down by runner A because he is slower, but if runner B slowed down to runner As 56k speed, then they both would run smoother.

In an MMORPG the speed of your internet does not really matter to your game play, like it does in FPS

but I would love to be able to download patches at my speed -.-

They could at least raise the cap...I don't know but I have DSL because the cost is just cheaper in the long run...and I'd have to have a second phone line to run dial up which figures into my costs...

The only reason to have dial-up in my opinion is if you're stuck in a dead zone...and dead zones are slowly shrinking...(personnly after have DSL for so long I can't go back to dial-up...it's just too slow for me!)

[Mythos]

In the US there are still a lot more dead zones than you might think. In coastal cities, and other countries, less so, but still.

[IfritnoItazura]

Think of it like two people running in a three legged race....

Runner A is running at 56k and runner B is running at T1 speed

Er... No.

You're not running with another other player--your client (PC, PS2, or xBox360) communicates only with S-E's servers. (As far as FFXI goes.) The servers are on some ultra high speed network which 99% of the players will never match--and would never need to, either

Very bad analogy. Completely wrong concept.

* * *

It's not clear to me where the majority of the bottlenecking occurs in FFXI. ("Uncap from 56k" isn't exactly a precise prescription, either.)

Instead of asking for some random, flavor-of-the-week changes in hopes of improving the game, I much rather S-E get questions like "What are the major contributing factors to the poor performance of FFXI during Besieged?"

(i.e. Don't propose solutions without understanding the problem.)

[Kailea]

Er... No.
You're not running with another other player--your client (PC, PS2, or xBox360) communicates only with S-E's servers. (As far as FFXI goes.) The servers are on some ultra high speed network which 99% of the players will never match--and would never need to, either
Very bad analogy. Completely wrong concept.
* * *
It's not clear to me where the majority of the bottlenecking occurs in FFXI. ("Uncap from 56k" isn't exactly a precise prescription, either.)
Instead of asking for some random, flavor-of-the-week changes in hopes of improving the game, I much rather S-E get questions like "What are the major contributing factors to the poor performance of FFXI during Besieged?"
(i.e. Don't propose solutions without understanding the problem.)

You have two people heading towards the same goal at the same time, thats where my 3 legged race reference came from, its common knowledge that you only communicate wit the server, thats how every MMORPG works -.-

For one I never even talked about the servers access speed to the internet..... and Besieged is "bottle necked" at that 56k cap along with the PS2s graphic limits

Example with Garrison

Same group of people same place and same time frame, I did my first Garrison on my PS2, and the frame rate was horrible, then before the second garrison, I changed to my PC, and I ran smoother then glass .

Same with Besieged, I don't have near as many lag issues as others complain about, yeah I lag in besieged, but who doesn't ;p but I run alot smoother then anyone on PS2.

[Taskmage]

There's another thread about this idea specifically here: http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/ask-squareenix-questions/67474-why-dont-you-get-rid-56k-restriction.html

It would make sense to me to continue the discussion there.

[Aeni]

I wanted to make a clarification on that Gamasutra study that I saw posted (There were a lot of developer contributions in the subsequent forum topic regarding this)

First of all, the study done was an approximation based on sales. As you know, sales is not an accurate measurement of the real numbers. There are some major factors which might skew that study.

1. Buying used games is a huge business in Japan. There exists secondary and even tertiary markets for used video games. Many customers in Japan don't generally buy titles on release day. For many, they patiently wait for those same titles to hit the used game market in order to take advantage of the subsequent discounts. The wait isn't that long either. Generally, within a week or two, even titles such as Final Fantasy XII will hit the used game shelves.

2. There are several businesses in Japan that sell used FFXI games, which includes the account tied to the game discs. In Japan, there is an option to pay for your accounts with cash up front at any of the predesignated retail outlets and SE offices. IIRC, you could even pay for the monthly fee in person at a local Lawsons. When I got my PS2 in Okinawa, I remember a shop there that had 2 used FFXI titles for sale with the account tied to it, one of the accounts had a 75 BST character still tied to it.

3. Many PS2 units are available as rental equipment at rental game outlets. For a minimal monthly fee and minimum amount of titles rented every month, you can "lease" these units for any number of months (which was either signed or agreed upon when first rented) I know of at least two LS mates in the JP LS I'm in that were doing this (They would be online for maybe a couple of months and then suddently not be on for several months, and then return online again)

4. PS3 Units are now available as rental equipment and is quickly becoming more popular than the PS2 units on a daily basis. There are also "trade-up" promotions going on among major retailers, like Rockets, which allows for a purchase of a new PS3 unit at a discounted price.

Overall, there is no real hard proof of the actual number of PS2 users in Japan playing FFXI due to the fact that many of the account holders are temporary players and that the accounts can exchange hands. It is not a foreign concept for Japanese players to acquire an account from another player and due to the flexible payment system which does not require a credit card (again, payments can be made in person and in cash as cash is still king in Japan) that it's not a difficult thing for these players to do. It's not uncommon for an account to have more than 2 different owners in its history.

Also, PC sales have really taken off recently in Japan, where more and more "hard core" PC systems are becoming popular with teenagers and college students.