not really a rant, but..

[Brayden]

Greetings,

I'll try to keep this brief, since I basically wanted to express something that annoyed me, but also get feedback if anyone else has encountered this. First off, this is the first time ive had this happen, so it could just be random.

I tried to start up a merit party yesterday evening, and most of the people seeking were japanese. Im totally cool with playing with anyone, and I try to be polite and concise with the auto translator. Anyhow, I asked 6 different people if they would like to party (all japanese by their exp comments) and I got ZERO replies. I waited a good 10 minutes, nothing. The only reply I did get, asked me where we would party at, and I told him I didnt know, and to please meet in Whitegate. After about 5 minuets, did a search for this person, and found him as another totally different job, off in Garliage Citadel.

What annoyed me most of all, was that no one replied to my tells. A simple "Im busy" or whatever would have been fine. Heck, Id even take the "English, I'm sorry" reply. I just wanted a reply. Instead Im left hanging and thinking "should i ask another rdm, this one didnt reply. Ok, this Nin didnt reply,should I ask another one? Well Ive got a brd at least.. now wait, what the heck he is doing over there?!"

Has anyone else had an incident like this? I know it could just be a fluke, and I doubt that its a "racial" thing. They could have been American, French or German for all I cared. Not sending a reply tell, even if short and brief, I find very rude and disheartening.

[Lilani]

There might have been a racial component, but on the other hand they all might have just been busy or distracted.

And I've also come across problems like this. I was searching for a replacement in a party for myself as WHM one time around...level 38 I think. There were 3 WHMs lfp, and the first thing I thought was "Perfect! I can log out in a snap!"

Well, I asked the first and waited. Three pulls go by and still no reply, so I ask the second. Five pulls go by and nothing. I ask the third, and they tell me they're going to log out soon.

I can understand distractions like the telephone, parent aggro, someone at the door, anything...but really, if you're going to look for a party don't think you'll get one any faster by going away and waiting. If you get a fast reply and you're not there to see it, they'll probably either disband or find someone else.

And if you have problems with being distracted by the TV, tough! Turn it off, or put on a shock collar that will force you to look over at your monitor every 60 seconds or less. Anything to not torture those who just want to log out ><

[Necropolis]

Personally when I try to set up a merit party, or any party, I try to get a friend or two to level with me. So I at least have a start on the party. Then I try to fill the preferred roles first. Nin, Brd, Rdm, Whm or what ever I'm needing essential to the party.

When I try to ask someone that doesn't speak english I'll try to use auto translate or use a guide to typical game play phrases. It seems to me, that the Japanesse like to have all the details of a party setup before starting to find members. Have a camp and such in mind, or have someone check open camps as you build your party.

I do sometimes get no response from people. But sometimes people fall asleep while seeking, or went afk for a few minutes so I try to give them time. The biggest problem I have with building a party though is the primadonnas that think you shouldn't ask them to party unless you're 5/6 already (bards I'm looking at you). But if I get no response from someone within 2 to 3 minutes I'll begin looking for someone else.

[Necropolis]

And if you have problems with being distracted by the TV, tough! Turn it off, or put on a shock collar that will force you to look over at your monitor every 60 seconds or less. Anything to not torture those who just want to log out ><

Well I don't expect someone to sit in front of thier moniter doing nothing but watch the screen while they seek. Though they should check every few minutes so they can see if they got offers for parties.

Personally I hate replacing people in a party. Especially if a party has been going for a while. When I start a party, I expect that once we get to camp, start up, and get killing we'll have at least 1 hour or exp. Many have more time, many don't. But once you start replacing people, it makes me feel obliged to stay for another hour. Once you've been exping for 2-3 hours, I want a break. It's typically fine if you're a melee, but if you a job thats harder to replace it can be hard to find a rep.

I'm of the mindset that if someone leaves after the 1 hour mark into a party, you should disband or at least confirm that everyone has at least an hour more to party. But many people, kindly, find reps for themselves without letting anyone know they intend to leave. So all you get is the message that, "ok, my reps here, {nice to meet you}{see you again!}"

Well I was considering leaving too, but now we have a rep here and I don't want to leave shortly afterwards wasting the other guy's time.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Well I don't expect someone to sit in front of thier moniter doing nothing but watch the screen while they seek. Though they should check every few minutes so they can see if they got offers for parties.
There's a much better solution. The game has the option to turn off background music, and turn on a chime whenever you receive a /tell.

As long as you aren't watching the mother of all noisy action flicks with your surround sound system cranked up to the max, there's no reason you shouldn't notice an incoming /tell that way.

[Necropolis]

There's a much better solution. The game has the option to turn off background music, and turn on a chime whenever you receive a /tell.

As long as you aren't watching the mother of all noisy action flicks with your surround sound system cranked up to the max, there's no reason you shouldn't notice an incoming /tell that way.

Yes, I love the chime system for tells now. But I still give someone a few minutes incase they left the room to make a sammich or use the wc.

[bri360]

No I doubt its racial, I party with jap and other people that cant speak english all the time, its just for some reason people think that if you don't reply it means no. Well it doesn't, all it means is your either afk or you diddnt see the msg. I always reply and say no or yes because its very annoying searching for someone, you find them and then no reply, so you wait so see if they do but alot of the time they dont even though they are still on. A couple days ago in the dunes I replied and apologized because i was afk when I got invited to a party, and when I refused because I was already in a party, he replied back and said its ok and thanks for replying, because its so annoying when people dont. Anyways lol thats my 2 cents.

[InuTrunks]

Bri, small nitpick on your post, please don't use "jap" in some parts of the world it's still concidered a "racial slur" (it was used in WW2 to describe the Japanese), and honestly it shouldn't be used.

Please either use JP, JPN, or Japanese.

Thanks!

[Kurb]

Always happens with me nobody with J will party with me from 1-30 i understand but at 75 we are all or should be good at are jobs no excuse

[Rain_Blade]

There might have been a racial component, but on the other hand they all might have just been busy or distracted.

And I've also come across problems like this. I was searching for a replacement in a party for myself as WHM one time around...level 38 I think. There were 3 WHMs lfp, and the first thing I thought was "Perfect! I can log out in a snap!"

Well, I asked the first and waited. Three pulls go by and still no reply, so I ask the second. Five pulls go by and nothing. I ask the third, and they tell me they're going to log out soon.

I can understand distractions like the telephone, parent aggro, someone at the door, anything...but really, if you're going to look for a party don't think you'll get one any faster by going away and waiting. If you get a fast reply and you're not there to see it, they'll probably either disband or find someone else.

And if you have problems with being distracted by the TV, tough! Turn it off, or put on a shock collar that will force you to look over at your monitor every 60 seconds or less. Anything to not torture those who just want to log out ><

I've been there and done that before >< Hate that. You think you finally have a rep (even more than enough ppl looking) yet they don't reply. The most I do not like at all is when they don't want to come as a rep. I've been getting told this a lot these few weeks. I don't know if it's old news or that it just started to catch on but it's new to me and I don't like it. A party isn't always going to disband soon if you come as a rep.

[Mythos]

I can't speak for everyone, but I know that I often don't want to come as a replacement. Not that I won't do it, or haven't done it. But I can't count the number of times that I have, and then a few kills later, the leader says we're disbanding, and I've barely made a dent in my TNL.

Of course not every party is going to do that, but enough have that some people don't care to bother with it.

[Omni]

People think that this has something to do with being japanese or whatever. It has nothing to do with where you're from. People just dont reply if they arent interested or are AFK.

I get non-replies from all sorts of people when making a pt. It's just something you have to accept, ESPECIALLY when it comes to merit PTs. Most other level ranges people tend to be more receptive because getting a PT can be difficult but with 25+ ppl usually seeing at 75, you have some really picky biatches out there.

[IfritnoItazura]

Actually, it does sound very Japanese. On Ifrit, a large number of JP seekers had "{Japanese} only" or "{English} {No thanks.}" in their search comments.

Rather than replaying to a /tell with a "No", I can easily see a lot of JP players just pretend to be AFK whether or not their search comments is "JP onry" or not. (That way, if they later change their minds because a lack of JP players, there wouldn't be awkwardness when they try to join or invite you. XD )

Keep in mind A) Some are really AFK, and B) Not responding is to avoid social conflicts, not (really) to insult the person sending /tell. (And, yes, C) Many JP players prefer JP parties over NA majority or "half-and-half".)

[InuTrunks]

B) Not responding is to avoid social conflicts, not (really) to insult the person sending /tell.

To expand on this reason a bit, it's because the Japanese (and the Asian population in general) tend to shy away from any kind of problems that could cause conflict. Also, yes, I understand you can use the "auto translator", but it's horrible way to try and communicate. It's easier to just party with someone who can speak your language.

[Omni]

Actually, it does sound very Japanese. On Ifrit, a large number of JP seekers had "{Japanese} only" or "{English} {No thanks.}" in their search comments.


He was commenting on the fact that when he asks ppl to PT, he gets no reply whatsoever.

This is not limited to just jp players. ALL types of players can exhibit this kind of behavior. The jp only thing has been around since NA was released. It's like how a lot of NA players now have comments such as 'BRD ONLY' 'BRD X2 ONLY' 'HQPT 4 Melee ONLY'

I've been ignored by jp, na, eu alike. You're right about avoiding conflict but pin pointing this to 'oh its the jp players that do this stuff' is misleading.

[Aeni]

They were all using Windowers and was busy watching the lastest Claymore release off the torrent...

[IfritnoItazura]

You're right about avoiding conflict but pin pointing this to 'oh its the jp players that do this stuff' is misleading.
Well, I didn't say they were the only ones intentionally ignoring invite /tell's.

My own personal experience is that many JP players would ignore invites from NA players, however. I've had a handful of experiences with some JP players not responding to my /tell's for invite, but answered right away when I asked JP members in party to ask on my behalf.

They obviously were ignoring my auto-translator phrased invites rather than being AFK. :P

[Omni]

that's not what im saying dude. :rolleyes:
NA players ignore people also. As do EU, as do I. So this whole ignoring ppl thing isnt just a jp related issue. its a 'i dont want to pt with you' issue. thats it.

[bri360]

Bri, small nitpick on your post, please don't use "jap" in some parts of the world it's still concidered a "racial slur" (it was used in WW2 to describe the Japanese), and honestly it shouldn't be used.

Please either use JP, JPN, or Japanese.

Thanks!
Ok np, I seriously diddnt know that >.<. Almost everyone I know says it, not in a racial way though. I guess its not considered racist in canada to say that, iono, sry ill try not to use it again.

[Dymlos]

It's true with JP wanting JP members only. Mostly because they HATE US players.

[fallenintoshadows]

You would horribly surprised at the amount of people who go afk whilst seeking. It irritates everyone, I think if they're really in a hurry all they have to do is type "/away" and bingo: problem solved. However people are lazy, or rude or just for some unknown reason think seeking while being away for a hell of a long time doesn't annoy anyone.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Some people go AFK while seeking because they know, due to the luxury of thier jobs, that they'll always be able to get another invite. Its still lazy and somewhat rude to do so, but people will do it anyway.

I use the /tell chime so I always hear when I get a tell while seeking, but if I'm not seeking, I'm very much entitled to ignore invites.

And like Omni said, JPs are far from the only ones guilty of being clique-ish. It doesn't have to he about language or nationality, NA and EU can be every bit as stuck-up or worse.

[IfritnoItazura]

It's true with JP wanting JP members only. Mostly because they HATE US players.

lol. Have you really talked to JP players about it? They don't hate NA players--they just had too many bad experiences with NA players who were ill prepared and unwilling to participate in teamwork. (Not to say those kind of JP players don't exist, of course.) They're scared of us, in a way. :biggrin:

* * *

I think calling JP players aversion to NA player a "clique-ish" behavior is stretching things a bit. It's not the case every JP players knows every other JP player invited--the Japanese player population is not a "clique". Many of them just don't want to deal with most of NA players, that's all.

And, yes, I know not all JP players are like that; I have a couple of JP players on my /flist, and I'm sure most of us have been invited by JP players to party at one point or another.

* * *

It really is a form of discrimination--but not exactly racism. It's stereotyping, based on (often exaggerated) bad experiences they experienced or heard about with NA players.

In mixed parties, I often see JP players complimenting NA players behind their backs in Japanese. "Wow, didn't think foreigners (NA players) would know how to do that." "I didn't cure the foreigner in time and he died, but he didn't seem to be mad?" "The foreigners are good!" And, etc.

It's pretty obvious from those (sincere!) comments that they had pretty low expectations for NA players in general. >_>

THAT is why they don't want to party with us. It's not that they "hate" us, it's that they think JP players are better in general. ._.

[Omni]

language is a big issue.

many NA think that english is the end-all language and that everyone should know it, even when it comes to simple words and phrases. it's just not the case.

i have many jp friends and thats what they say when they avoid na players. some dont like na yes, but some just dont want to deal with it. its a headache.

like when i have to talk to developer in india when it comes to work and their english is hard to understand, i find it a head ache just trying to explain things to them or even understanding them. now luckily, i dont need to talk to them always so its ok but say if you had to deal with this each time you go out to xp. you'd get tired of it really easy.

[Omni]

Also, about going afk.

Alot of ppl that play melee jobs tend to trail off/fall asleep because they've been seeking for so long. I've just finished my mnk and well yesterday i was trying to find a merit pt and was seeking for 2 hrs, I nodded off and took a nap and of course when i came back i got 2 invites. then i seeked for 2 more hrs and nothing.

I do have the /tell chime on also but its not loud enough even with my speakers up to hear when you're say washing the dishes or doing laundry in the other room.