Do YOu Use Smn In A Party?

[Snowball]

I had my very first party in Valkurm Dunes with Smn yesterday.

What I would like to know is..... has anyone here ever used the pets in a party?
I felt I had to be there as a healer, like WHM and RDM, but healing was my only job there, not that I see any problems with that particular part, but having Carby out in a pt just seemed to hamper things on the mp side. :( Using Astral Flow seems all well and good, but only for a short time, and like every 2 hour job ability, it doesn't last very long, and therefore having it out in a pt, it just uses up on mp, all of which I am using for cure spells instead. /sigh! :worry:

Does anyone know if there is a special item in the game that you can use for Smn, to prevent pets eating up on mp? I find it quite worrying. (and I don't mean drinks and food which provide more mp. I'm asking if there is anything you can use to put a complete HALT on the mp use of the pets, rather like Astral Flow I suppose)

If you DO however use pets in a pt, then what are your best suggestions please?

Also, I'm quite sure that Searing Light is one of the uses for Smn, but for some reason I cannot locate it in my abilities list for Smn. Where do I find it please?

[Kailea]

Summon avatar
use blood pact
release avatar

is a standerd macro for summoner

[Rain_Blade]

I had my very first party in Valkurm Dunes with Smn yesterday.

What I would like to know is..... has anyone here ever used the pets in a party?
I felt I had to be there as a healer, like WHM and RDM, but healing was my only job there, not that I see any problems with that particular part, but having Carby out in a pt just seemed to hamper things on the mp side. :( Using Astral Flow seems all well and good, but only for a short time, and like every 2 hour job ability, it doesn't last very long, and therefore having it out in a pt, it just uses up on mp, all of which I am using for cure spells instead. /sigh! :worry:

Does anyone know if there is a special item in the game that you can use for Smn, to prevent pets eating up on mp? I find it quite worrying. (and I don't mean drinks and food which provide more mp. I'm asking if there is anything you can use to put a complete HALT on the mp use of the pets, rather like Astral Flow I suppose)

If you DO however use pets in a pt, then what are your best suggestions please?

Also, I'm quite sure that Searing Light is one of the uses for Smn, but for some reason I cannot locate it in my abilities list for Smn. Where do I find it please?

No there is no way to stop your mp at halt at your level. For carby at lvl 20, try to get a party (tank, Drk, healer, etc) to get Carby Mitts. They take half of it's perpetuation costs. At level 51, you'd be able to get the ele-staves. The NQ take away -2 to te corresponding avatar element. At other levels, you can wear things like Nashira Gages (hard to get), Evoker's Ring, Conjurer's Ring (latent), Summoners Horn (takes away -3 depending on day or I think it was weather to corresponding avatar element), Summoner's Doublet (same thing i said for Horn), Evoker's Pigaches +1, Penance Robe (very rare), Yinyang robe (gives refresh), Vermillian Cloak (gives refresh), etc. At lvl 51, you can get free carby (that one can come to a halt), with light staff, carby mitts, and any other bod part that gives a minus perpetuation cost. I hope that wasn't too confusing. Find a guide ^^

www.ffxiclopedia.org (http://www.ffxiclopedia.org) or www.allakhazam.com (http://www.allakhazam.com) (click FFXI and go to the Job Forum and click Summoner, then click the stick for the link compilation) or www.summoner.info (http://www.summoner.info) (very old site but very useful)

Summon avatar

use blood pact

release avatar



is a standerd macro for summoner

While that is true, at low levels most summoners are at the point where they're enjoying avatar meleeing. At a certain point, they'd use the method you mentioned above.

[Snowball]

Summon avatar
use blood pact
release avatar

It's a standerd macro for summoner

I don't understand that one. I'm sorry. :worry:

Well yes..... I understand where those commands come from, but I was hoping I could possibly keep Carby out for the WHOLE time of pt, and all you have done, is to release the pet again! (this obviously sends it away) Sounds very pointless to me indeed! :(

[LoneGamer]

You can't rest for MP when an Avatar is out.

[Pai Pai Master]

The standard Summoner practice is to only use Avatars for their various abilities. The need to reserve MP for healing and Blood Pacts far outweighs the little damage Avatars will do by staying out and attacking the monster, severely draining your MP.

Later on you will begin to find equipment that decreases Avatar Perpetuation Cost (the amount of MP eaten by a Summoned Avatar per tick). The first of which you'll come across are the Carbuncle Mitts which will decrease the cost to sustain a summoned Carbuncle. Later on you'll find various pieces of equipment as well as Elemental Staves, which will decrease perpetuation cost for avatars of the element staff you have equipped.

Summoners have the most MP out of any job, so later on you'll begin to find some leniency in the pratice and you'll be able to keep your Avatars summoned for a while longer. Even at higher levels however, Summoners must be wary not to keep their Avatars out for too long. Despite their massive MP pools, high level summoners still need to worry about maintaining a high level of MP during EXP parties, to keep the battles flowing without having to rest all the time.

It may be frustrating if you enjoy keeping your Avatar out and watching it attack, which a lot of us do. However, once you become accustomed to the need to keep your MP as high as possible, you'll find it more beneficial to release your Avatar as quickly as possible once its used its Blood Pact.

At higher levels, you'll find Blood Pacts very useful for party buffs, enemy debuffs, and powerful attacks and magic good for Skillchains and Magic Bursts. As you have to keep an eye on Blood Pact timers, you'll also find yourself shuffling through the list of Avatars quite rapidly, as each one has very specific and useful purposes, and you'll begin to appreciate the method most summoners use.

[Snowball]

No there is no way to stop your mp at halt at your level. For carby at lvl 20, try to get a party (tank, Drk, healer, etc) to get Carby Mitts. They take half of it's perpetuation costs.

OMG!! :shocked:
I SERIOUSLY hope you're NOT expecting a party of level 20 to kill a level 70 NM, JUST to get those things!! :shocked:
It would probably take up about 10 alliances if you're hoping for level 20, and that's very impossible to come by as it is!

"somepage" (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/853) says that you kill a "Crimson-toothed Pawberry" NM at lvl 70 to get the mitts, and the notes on

"ffxi-atlas" (http://monsters.ffxi-atlas.com/monsters/?id=853)
say that a party of six can kill this creature at lvl 70.

I guess that will be a VEEEERRRRRRRYYYYYY long wait for me then!:( :(

At level 51, you'd be able to get the ele-staves.

You mean "elemental staves?!"
I've had my eye on those for a while now. I must say, they look very interesting and useful too.

The NQ take away -2 to the corresponding avatar element.

Erm..... care to elaborate what NQ means for me please? :huh:

At other levels, you can wear things like Nashira Gages (hard to get), Evoker's Ring, Conjurer's Ring (latent), Summoners Horn (takes away -3 depending on day or I think it was weather to corresponding avatar element), Summoner's Doublet (same thing i said for Horn), Evoker's Pigaches +1, Penance Robe (very rare), Yinyang robe (gives refresh), Vermillian Cloak (gives refresh), etc.

Okay, I've just been through and checked those all out on somepage too. All very useful stuff, but at high levels, so again..... will take me a lifetime to get stuff like this! :(

I rather like the look of the Vermillion Cloak though. I've seen others wear it ingame. I guess I hope to get that myself one day too. /sigh!


At lvl 51, you can get free carby (that one can come to a halt), with light staff, carby mitts, and any other bod part that gives a minus perpetuation cost. I hope that wasn't too confusing.

Free carby with a minus perpetuation wearable gear hey?
How does that one work then? I don't really see the point in that when you already get Carby at level 1 anyway!
But you said it can come to a halt on mp at lvl 50 though, so I guess it must be worth SOMETHING at least.

Btw - what EXACTLY does perpetuation mean?
I presume it has something to do with reduced mp with Smn pets no doubt.

Find a guide ^^

www.ffxiclopedia.org (http://www.ffxiclopedia.org) or www.allakhazam.com (http://www.allakhazam.com) (click FFXI and go to the Job Forum and click Summoner, then click the stick for the link compilation) or www.summoner.info (http://www.summoner.info) (very old site but very useful)

The 1st two sites I already know rather well, but the last one I don't. It confuses me and I'm not exactly sure what I'm supposed to be searching for on there either.

[Cacti]

I'm personally not familiar with summoners or there gear but as far as Carby's mitts go you can probably wait to get them if the nm is that high of a level or recruit some high level friends to help you out, i don't actually know what level there available for use at, but if its a lvl 70 nm then theres no way for you to get them on a lvl 20 job.

HQ=High Quality (i.e +1 versions of item, for the ele staves there the staves with names not just water staff or light staff) NQ=Normal Quality

Perpetuation is the mp cost of keeping an avatar summoned.

Yes, alot of the gear ppl have mentioned is for higher levels and it will take awhile for you to get there, but thats because most jobs are not all that different at low levels (i.e. dont have the unique JA, spells, or traits) and getting free avatars at lvl 1 would kind of defeat the high mp pool summoners have access too.

[Murphie]

I have no advice to offer, but I just wanted to mention that Snowball threads never fail to bring the hilarity.

[Raydeus]

I... forgot what I was gonna say. Carry on.

[Snowball]

I'm personally not familiar with summoners or there gear but as far as Carby's mitts go you can probably wait to get them if the nm is that high of a level or recruit some high level friends to help you out, i don't actually know what level there available for use at, but if its a lvl 70 nm then theres no way for you to get them on a lvl 20 job.

If you had a look at the llink I posted for the carby mitts on "somepage" it would tell you they are wearable at lvl 20. But GOD KNOWS why they should be attainable from a level 70 NM! I think that's just damned stupidly RIDICULOUS! :angry: (obviously on SE's part)

It says that the perpetuation cost for it though, is minus 4.
Is that something which is supposed to be more appropriate for a very high level Smn? (seeing as there is NO way to get them at lower levels) If that is the case, then S.E. should NOT have made them level 20, (absolutely pointless indeed!) but instead more higher! :worry: :worry:

HQ=High Quality (i.e +1 versions of item, for the elemental staves they're the staves with names not just water staff or light staff) NQ=Normal Quality

I'm not sure I'm understanding something here.
So HQ=High Quality. I got that part, but the only elemental staves I can see on "somepage" are those such as :

Walrus Staff (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/630)

Apollo's Staff (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/2393)

Aquilo's Staff (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/2397)

Auster's Staff (http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/4116)

also listed along with dark, earth, fire, ice staff too e.t.c.
So I'm not sure which ones are suppsoed to be HQ to be honest.

Perpetuation is the mp cost of keeping an avatar summoned.

Okay. Got it. Thanks.

Yes, alot of the gear ppl have mentioned is for higher levels and it will take a while for you to get there, but thats because most jobs are not all that different at low levels (i.e. dont have the unique JA, spells, or traits)

Not all that different?? For a lot of jobs, you get more special abilities and things at higher levels which makes having a job that bit more exciting in my opinion. When I reached lvl 36 WHM, I couldn't wait to get started on the 3 main tele/crag quests, and now I have them, I feel all the more better for it.

By the way, what JA mean?

and getting free avatars at lvl 1 would kind of defeat the high mp pool summoners have access to.

Yep. I guess that sounds pretty reasonable.
Maybe at higher levels, Smn avatars/pets need more mp use, which is why you get all this gear later on which gives you all these special effects e.t.c.

[Snowball]

Having thought about this now..... I have decided to ditch Smn to go and do the flag quest for DRG instead. (got the quest info for it, so I know what I'm doing for that) Some of the things you have to go through for Smn just seem too ridiculous or difficult!
I don't like the Smn job anymore! I think it stinks. :P

I was excited at the prospect of going through the quest for Smn in the 1st place because you could summon all these weird, wacky and wonderful pets/avatars for it, but beause of the mp limitations, it's just not my thing anymore. I hate it!

Now, with DRG, I know that you can only have 1 pet/avatar there, (the Wyvern.Very cool indeed!) but being a melee type job, you don't have to worry about mp keeping the Wyvern out, (thus you can have him out as much as you want to) and I'd love to find out what types of wonderful abilities you can get from it as you grow in levels too!

And so.... DRG it is now!


Okay, I've finished speaking now. Sorry about all that.

[LoneGamer]

JA = Job Ability. An ability, that is not a spell or weaponskill, that a job can use.

The Elemental Staves are level 51 staves, and their high-quality versions, that enhance the effects of spells of their element and weaken the effects of spells of the element they dominate. Light Staff, Dark Staff, Fire Staff, Ice Staff, etc.

[Rain_Blade]

Having thought about this now..... I have decided to ditch Smn to go and do the flag quest for DRG instead. (got the quest info for it, so I know what I'm doing for that) Some of the things you have to go through for Smn just seem too ridiculous or difficult!
I don't like the Smn job anymore! I think it stinks. :P

I was excited at the prospect of going through the quest for Smn in the 1st place because you could summon all these weird, wacky and wonderful pets/avatars for it, but beause of the mp limitations, it's just not my thing anymore. I hate it!

Now, with DRG, I know that you can only have 1 pet/avatar there, (the Wyvern.Very cool indeed!) but being a melee type job, you don't have to worry about mp keeping the Wyvern out, (thus you can have him out as much as you want to) and I'd love to find out what types of wonderful abilities you can get from it as you grow in levels too!

And so.... DRG it is now!


Okay, I've finished speaking now. Sorry about all that.

Basically, any job will have their downsides and good sides to keep everything balanced. On dragoon, you will find them too. I hope you have fun with the job you picked. :)

[Celeal]

Having thought about this now..... I have decided to ditch Smn to go and do the flag quest for DRG instead. (got the quest info for it, so I know what I'm doing for that) Some of the things you have to go through for Smn just seem too ridiculous or difficult!
I don't like the Smn job anymore! I think it stinks. :P

I was excited at the prospect of going through the quest for Smn in the 1st place because you could summon all these weird, wacky and wonderful pets/avatars for it, but beause of the mp limitations, it's just not my thing anymore. I hate it!

Now, with DRG, I know that you can only have 1 pet/avatar there, (the Wyvern.Very cool indeed!) but being a melee type job, you don't have to worry about mp keeping the Wyvern out, (thus you can have him out as much as you want to) and I'd love to find out what types of wonderful abilities you can get from it as you grow in levels too!

And so.... DRG it is now!


Okay, I've finished speaking now. Sorry about all that.

DRG is a fun job too. For the DRG's Wyvern, it can be killed too once its HP is down to zero. Call Wyvern has 20 minutes timer. There is also more restriction on the control of the DRG's pet as well.

[Snowball]

Please ignore this. I want to start a new thread. Sorry about this. (I started posting a reply, but couldn't delete it afterwards)
I'm Sorry.

[emeraldpearl]

lol DRG i personally dont like it. i feel to restricted. im currently a level 30 smn with all avatars except fenrir and diabolos. i still love it to bits and plan to take it all the way to lvl 75

[Snowball]

lol DRG i personally dont like it. i feel to restricted. im currently a level 30 smn with all avatars except fenrir and diabolos. i still love it to bits and plan to take it all the way to lvl 75

You see..... that's exactly the way I feel about Smn. I don't like the mp restrictions! :worry: And so I go and try for DRG instead. At least you can have the Wyvern out for "MUCH" longer than a few seconds at a time, which is more than can be said for a plain, dull Smn!

I really love the look and style of all the weird and wacky Smn pets, I think they're all really great too, but like I said before..... damned horrible mp resrictions! /big sigh!

Now, DRG has this really cool ability called "Jump!"
I can't wait to try THAT one out for size! :P



Edit : Btw, I really love your avatar, especially your sig too.
I can't take my eyes off all those beautiful pets. :cool:

[Feenicks]

emeraldpearl, your sig takes up pretty much my entire computer screen.

[Silent Howler]

emeraldpearl, your sig takes up pretty much my entire computer screen.
lol, everyone keeps saying that. Again, I suggest using a spoiler block. :thumbsup:



Smn by far requires more dedication to obtain than any other job. It's not something you can just pick up and play. It takes a lot of work. And one of my lvl 75 smn friends explained how high level summoners get more respect from people, because everyone knows how hard it was from them to get to that point.

And for the first time today I got to see my smn friend in action, and she had leviathan out for at least a minute or two and I hardly noticed a dent in her mp. The mp drain isn't so big of an issue higher up.

So basically, in the long run smn pays off, but you are never going to get there if you don't have the patients and willingness to do so.

[fencingkitty]

lol DRG i personally dont like it. i feel to restricted. im currently a level 30 smn with all avatars except fenrir and diabolos. i still love it to bits and plan to take it all the way to lvl 75


lolDRG, what? >.> How can DRG feel restricted? Cause you enjoy the prospect of main healing from 30-75? Really though, you can party well w/Drg, one of the few that open light and dark skillchains, solo even from lower levels right up through 75 for a crazy fun time actually, then pop an aggressive wyvern sub job up and go catch a party to break the monotony if you get bored...
DRG has a wide range of bits really. But that's not what this threads about. ; p

SMN is an easier job to catch if you understand the basics of mage-type jobs, managing your mp and all that. Additionally I love how it keeps you on your toes keeping all the SMN buffs up, hitting your Bloodpact: Rages, backing up your main heal.. Personally, I don't feel SMN should be main heal till much later, like maybe till Garuda and/or Leviathan's Healing Wards. Without a solid tank it's just far too easy to pull a mass amount of hate spamming Cure IIs, not having emergency Cure III, Regens, and godforbid Raise.

Additionally, it requires LOTS of research. Course I'm a book-geek so reading's no stress on me. YMMV

[eikichi]

Additionally, it requires LOTS of research. Course I'm a book-geek so reading's no stress on me. YMMV


What exactly needs to be researched with SMN? Like you said, you just need to understand the basic mechanic of any mage job, mp conservation. The job does get boring, but if you can actually multi-task properly, it is alot more hands on than most melee jobs. Meaning, you have to actually sit there and pay attention to your PT and deciding which BP would benefit them most, and also trying to keep everyone alive.

[Gwynn]

I will say this: SMN is definatly easier to level if you already have a level 75 job. Being able to get the Celestial Avatars from their Prime versions is much less of a hassle than doing the 20 fights (although I am rather bummed I didn't earn them from the 20 fights... might have to go back and do them.). Getting the Carby Mitts is tons easier than doing it as a 20 SMN. In addition, you'll be able to have Fenrir and Diabolos for your whole SMN career, not just when you get to 70+.

But on another note, I'll also say this: I have a ton of respect for people who take SMN as their first main job to 75. Its not easy at all, and takes a lot of dedication.