Questions on EX WS and subjobs

[LoneGamer]

Hi all,

I've been poking around, researching COR, since I'm thinking of taking it up to be my 2nd 75. I've found the skill caps for COR, but no information on what weapon types they can access EX skills in. Which weapons do they natively get EX skills from? I'm sure this is on the wiki, but due to old issues with the administrator, I can't go there.

Second, is /RNG necessary? I already have WHM and NIN subs leveled from RDM. Can I make it to 75 with those, or do I really need to have /RNG available to be optimal? Also, I'm planning on taking BRD to 37 for RDM eventually, would it be worth doing that first so I can sub BRD when necessary? The sticky seemed unclear on it to me.

Thanks!

[IfritnoItazura]

Second, is /RNG necessary? I already have WHM and NIN subs leveled from RDM. Can I make it to 75 with those, or do I really need to have /RNG available to be optimal? Also, I'm planning on taking BRD to 37 for RDM eventually, would it be worth doing that first so I can sub BRD when necessary? The sticky seemed unclear on it to me.

Stop! You can check out about EX WS's from FFXIclopedia when you get home or something, but we already had a big thread on COR/BRD (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/corsair/66419-cor-brd.html). >_<

[LoneGamer]

I guess I wasn't clear. I have old issues with the wiki administrator.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

COR has B rating (250) in Gun and Daggar
B- (240) in Sword
A+ (276) in Parry
C+ (230) in Throwing
D (210) in Evasion

By EX skills, I'm assuming you mean Exclusive Weaponskills

We can quest Detonator, Savage Blade and Evicieration.


/NIN, /WHM and /BRD, in general, fail to tap into the talents COR has to offer EXP PTs.

/NIN in EXP is a misunderstanding that COR is like RNG. No, COR/RNG is more like RNG. /NIN is a nice merit pulling subjob, decent for missions and BCNMs, great for manaburn, but all kinds of useless elsewhere. Your accuracy will be as bad as if you subbed /WHM.

RNG subs NIN for increased accuracy and Utsusemi, but RNG already has tons of thier own accuracy traits. So NIN is just giving them an even more superior edge on accuracy. /RNG will give you + 22 Ranged Accuracy at 60 from the Accuracy Bonus traits, superior to what Dual Wielding accuracy + daggers.

No matter how much Ranged accuracy COR/NIN can gain from Dual Wield, COR/RNG will always have more by default at 60+, in addition to what Beater's gear and Gun Belt addes based off /RNG latent effects. Its very important to consider that.

/RNG is easily the best EXP sub for COR. There is no good reason to avoid levelling it. It offers us our best potential damage over time and accuracy in EXP. We may be invited for buffs, but DD is often the other reason.

/BRD sounds nice on paper, but it is not needed for EXP at all. Nice for manaburns and some endgame scenarios, but /NIN is much better for manaburns because you'll be expected to be taking heat from AM casting mobs and you will be expected to pull in manaburn. When a COR is in manaburn, its no longer about your accuracy or damage, just survival and pulling/claiming fast and keeping buffs up.

Mage subs ebb and flow. /WHM is fine to 30ish and picks up with other mage subs well again in endgame. Its not so hot in the EXP levels in between unless you're really willing to give up your gun and accuracy gear for MP rings and take a backline role. Kinda takes the whole bite out of the job, you may as well have just levelled BRD at that point.

That aside, I just updated the guide as you made this post, the subjob section was heavily expanded.

[LoneGamer]

EX WS meaning Red Lotus Blade, Viper Bite, most Archery/Marksmanship WS, etc. Weaponskills that require one of a list of jobs to be your main or support job. For example, DRK gets EX Sword skills but RDM doesn't.

[Cotners]

/BRD sounds nice on paper, but it is not needed for EXP at all. Nice for manaburns and some endgame scenarios, but /NIN is much better for manaburns because you'll be expected to be taking heat from AM casting mobs and you will be expected to pull in manaburn. When a COR is in manaburn, its no longer about your accuracy or damage, just survival and pulling/claiming fast and keeping buffs up.

Not entirely on topic but if an AM goes off in a manaburn party, that party fails. You have more than enough time to stun it, sleep it or kill it in that long casting time. It's the -ga3's that you gotta worry more about since they don't take as long to cast and shadows won't help there... For a manburn I would go /whm or /brd.

[LoneGamer]

So, COR/BRD is just as situational as RDM/BRD, I guess. If I'm leveling RNG to 37 first for subbing, should I pre-level Marksmanship to any extent or just go Archery?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Not entirely on topic but if an AM goes off in a manaburn party, that party fails. You have more than enough time to stun it, sleep it or kill it in that long casting time. It's the -ga3's that you gotta worry more about since they don't take as long to cast and shadows won't help there... For a manburn I would go /whm or /brd.

On the contrary, if you Stun an AM that's going to hit my shadows as /NIN.... why? I'm giving you a total pre-emptive strike on the mob, you're actually just gaining hate and making the mob turn on you when you could be nuking it while its focused this AM on me. Let BRD/NIN or COR/NIN serve as a decoy, don't take thier hate if you can kill an AMing mob outright.

Stun -Agas, don't waste your time in AMs and T4s if your puller is subbing /NIN, they should be smart enough to be counting thier shadows.

/WHM I have tried in manaburn, its all kinds of worthless. BRD and COR should be your very last candidates for curing anyone when you have 4-5 BLM/RDMs that can do the same. You have the larger MP pool, suck it up and do the deed yourself or invite a RDM if you don't want to cure, COR and BRD have better things to do in manaburn than cure.

But that brings up the other reason I sub /NIN in manaburn, I can't trust BLMs to do the deed of curing. Any BLM. Its like they all made some pact never to cure people even when the have the spell at arm's length. If you want me to pull with T4s, AMs and -aga3s all around, I want some reassurance I'll survive, because I know I can't trust a BLM to help me there.

/BRD, as I've said, just sounds nice on paper, BLM have more than enough Refresh Buffs and +hMP gear buffs going for them in manaburn levels. 1 more MP a tick from Ballad changes very little.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

So, COR/BRD is just as situational as RDM/BRD, I guess. If I'm leveling RNG to 37 first for subbing, should I pre-level Marksmanship to any extent or just go Archery?

Its pretty easy to give Archery and Marksmanship equal priority when levelling RNG sub. arrows are dirt cheap at sub level and bolts for crossbows are even cheaper. Don't mess with guns on RNG if you're just levelling it as a sub, pre-50, bows and xbows have the edge.

You may end up liking RNG and want to take if further, so I'd just do both Archery and Marksmanship.

[LoneGamer]

Well, what I'm looking for in a second job is a job that can DD but also has a component that requires some thought and planning.

[WishMaster3K]

BBQ speaks the truth in regards to COR. AM goes off in a manaburn party, that party fails. You have more than enough time to stun it, sleep it or kill it in that long casting time.

Already addressed. But essentially, a mob casting AM when your a NIN or /NIN is like a free ~10 seconds to do anything.

Oh, and BLM/WHM|RDM suck ass for healing. They have all the spells that SMN/WHM get, but they're too concerned spending ~250MP on gimp nukes.

[LoneGamer]

Okay. What about my original question, do COR get EX Weaponskills? And in what weapon types? For example: Vorpal Blade, Viper Bite, all the Marksmanship WS (except Detonator)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Okay. What about my original question, do COR get EX Weaponskills? And in what weapon types? For example: Vorpal Blade, Viper Bite, all the Marksmanship WS (except Detonator)

Vorpal only if you sub /WAR /BLU /DRK and /PLD.

Viper Bite is native to COR so /THF not needed for that, Slug Shot is also native to COR and can also be accessed by /COR.

[LoneGamer]

So COR gets EX Dagger and Marksmanship, but not Sword. Thanks. I was hoping it would get Sword WS, since I'm planning on dumping merits into it from RDM.

[Cotners]

/sigh... BBQ and Wish, are you trying to make me derail this thread? /nin is just selfish in a manaburn. It does nothing but obsorb the single target spells. Perhaps you need a lesson on puddings, they cast -ga spells 70% of the time. If I invite a RDM, BRD or COR it is for support, so saying 'we have better things to do than heal' is a quick way to go back to lfg. The speed of the exp is entirely dependant on the blm's mp. Aside from all that, roaming in a manaburn is much more efficiant than pulling to a camp.

Not trying to be jerk or flame anyone, but don't argue with a blm on manaburning... it's pointless and infantile.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

/sigh... BBQ and Wish, are you trying to make me derail this thread? /nin is just selfish in a manaburn. It does nothing but obsorb the single target spells. Perhaps you need a lesson on puddings, they cast -ga spells 70% of the time. If I invite a RDM, BRD or COR it is for support, so saying 'we have better things to do than heal' is a quick way to go back to lfg. The speed of the exp is entirely dependant on the blm's mp. Aside from all that, roaming in a manaburn is much more efficiant than pulling to a camp.

Not trying to be jerk or flame anyone, but don't argue with a blm on manaburning... it's pointless and infantile.

Since the topic question has been answered in full, we can move on this and I will explain my approach in another thread later this evening. However, I've well over two years of manaburn and general burn PT experience, I don't think I have to waste my time picking up BLM from 41 to 75 to know what I'm talking about here.

No BLM has ever invited me with expectation of being a healer - as both BRD and COR. And if they just expect me stand there buffing and curing, they can find someone else because they invited me to a boring PT, its not like I'm hurting for invites on either job.

As for everything else, I'll cover it in the other thread, I've been procrastinating on a manaburn topic anyway.

[wrongfeifong]

I don't know why you even need /nin to pull for mana burn. I found /brd better overall for ballad, even if it only 1 mp/tick its still reduce the downtime.

I do pull, blm with full MP stun + sleep then next set of mob,
I just pull ,run and sleep (light shot). Then Nukes away x5. Then rest abit then redo the steps.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I don't know why you even need /nin to pull for mana burn. I found /brd better overall for ballad, even if it only 1 mp/tick its still reduce the downtime.

I do pull, blm with full MP stun + sleep then next set of mob,
I just pull ,run and sleep (light shot). Then Nukes away x5. Then rest abit then redo the steps.

There's a thread for this now. I use /NIN to use Light Shot in a more defensive manner and stage pre-emptive strikes more often for the BLMs. Basically, I get three options to avoid damage after drawing the mob's attention versus just Light Shot. A T4 or AM directed at me is a free kill for the BLMs. A shadow absorbs any damage I could have taken. MP doesn't have to wasted on Stun, Cures or Gravity that way.

And when a manaburn camp gets competitive - which it can be often - you just can't be as aggressive with /BRD as you can with /NIN. You can't pull double or off-tank an add with BRD, either. I prefer to be able to function independantly of the other members, /NIN allows me that.

What you believe to save the BLMs in MP with Ballad, I save using my tools and cards. At any rate, if you're in a good manaburn, you'll run out of mobs and the chain will end in the teens at camps like Mount Z.

In other words, there's no wrong subjob for COR in manaburn - its totally preference.

But you just can't prefer /BRD in TP burn and hope to chain well as a puller, at all.

[wrongfeifong]

about the subjobs.
I never tried /nin but with good decent gear (i have +1 everything @ 65 and have spectacles. but still using archer knife (as trailer is abit expensive) /rng sharpshot with food i still have a chance missing a slugshot.

without food, i have 50% missing a slugshot with /rng.

So i can't imagine how much a /nin could even hit.

But /rng is deadly for sure, i pulled aggro off paladin with Sharpshot +barrage slugshot then 1 range attack then slugshot again. Basically if a ninja tank, just the first slugshot + barrage could pick up massive aggro alone.

/rng could really do decent dmg (but eats about 9-10 stacks of bullets per level from 64-65 T.T), i doubt /nin could even come close. I would suggest if you want to do /nin try focus full Acc gears (like life belt, scopian harness, and sniper rings or +atk rings) just to build TP normally and switch gear for Slug shot (using scopian +1 rings and your AF). @ 70+ optical hat = your best choice rather then AF hat. (just switch hat for quick shot)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

If I'm doing /NIN as COR, there is no melee and the focus on shooting is almost non-existant except to pull. Meleeing and shooting as /NIN is a pure waste of bullets in EXP because /NIN is a very weak DD sub for COR..

/NIN is nice for missions and BCNMs to mitigate damage, but even with all the accuracy gear you can muster, /NIN will not come close to the damage output and accuracy of /RNG. /RNG grants +22 Ranged accuracy from the two Accuracy Bonus traits you get from the subjob.

But as I've stated in several threads, I use /NIN for burn pulling and that's pretty much all I use it for. If I'm /NIN, I'm pretty much pulling like a BRD pulls, there is no melee and especially not in manaburn where theres no point to melee there.