Black Mage Subjob Leveling Question

[Jaggs]

Ok I know I am not really even close to getting my subjob yet but I thought that I should ask this question. At what level should I start leveling the job that I want as the subjob? I plan on either have a RDM or a WHM as my subjob I was planning on leveling them later. Or should I start leveling them now? Also I heard you start leveling at level 10 in Valkrum Dunes, But some people have told me that I shouldn't bother and just solo till level 20. Ok well hope you can answer these questions, and thanks! :)

[Cacti]

You can start leveling your subjob whenever you would like, although you wont be able to use it until you get to 18 so I would just take a job straight to 18 then start leveling your subs, or just level the job you want to use as a sub to 18 first and its clear sailing to 37 on your main. As a BLM and as your first job, i would probably go to the dunes at 10 or 11. Once you get the ability to use a subjob leveling gets a little easier 1-10 or 20 depending on the job and of course your preference(sp?).

[Evion]

Firstly, solo to lv 10. Then, immediately go to dunes. (near Highlands' entrace/east side for lv 10 pts) Go to 18. Go to Selbina and unlock sub job (will need PL/6 person PT). Pick the sub to your final main as your main. Go to lv 37. Then start over at lv 1 with your final job, and go to 75. 3 jobs to level, to get to your final/sub right. It sucks, but worth it.

In terms of your case, it would look like this:

WHM: to 18
RDM/WHM: to 37
BLM/RDM: to 75

[fallenintoshadows]

At some point it would be ideal for you to level at least all 3 whm, rdm and blm to at least 37, blm uses whm sub and rdm sub in higher levels, rdm uses both blm and whm.

So if you're planning on taking blm to 75 my plan of action would be, blm > 18, then whm/blm > 37, then rdm/whm(or /blm) > 37, then blm > 75 without having to stop to level subs.

[IfritnoItazura]

In terms of your case, it would look like this:

WHM: to 18
RDM/WHM: to 37
BLM/RDM: to 75

Hmm. Isn't /WHM more useful in parties than /RDM? Fast Cast, Gravity (and maybe Phalanx) is nice when solo'ing as BLM/RDM, but in parties it is probably better to be able to help out with -na spells, toss out an occasional Curaga's and perhaps even an Erase now and then. Raise can come in handy sometimes, too.

I would say /WHM should be most BLM's primary support job for party use, while saving /RDM for solo'ing.

Edit:

I'd go this way:

WHM to Lv.18 > complete support job quest > BLM to Lv.37 > WHM to Lv.37 > continue with BLM until you need a break, then level RDM to Lv.37.

[Evion]

Hmm. Isn't /WHM more useful in parties than /RDM? Fast Cast, Gravity (and maybe Phalanx) is nice when solo'ing as BLM/RDM, but in parties it is probably better to be able to help out with -na spells, toss out an occasional Curaga's and perhaps even an Erase now and then. Raise can come in handy sometimes, too.

I would say /WHM should be most BLM's primary support job for party use, while saving /RDM for solo'ing.

Okay fine, then it would look like this to get to BLM/WHM 75 the quickest:

BLM: to 18
WHM/BLM: to 37
BLM/WHM:to 75

[Jaggs]

Okay fine, then it would look like this to get to BLM/WHM 75 the quickest:

BLM: to 18
WHM/BLM: to 37
BLM/WHM:to 75

Hmm I think I like this way best or would this be good too?

BLM: to 18
RDM/BLM: to 37
WHM/BLM: to 37
BLM/WHM: to 75

just so I can get all to 37 without haveing to go back and forth and just swich back and forth between white mage and redmage whenever I need them the most. For right now I want to take BLM all the way to 75 after that I have no clue but I think I have time for that! :)

[IfritnoItazura]

The reason for WHM to Lv.18 first is because WHM with no support job isn't all that much less than WHM with support job, while BLM/WHM provides a lot more utility than BLM/---. (Cure is that important at low levels...)

In overall scheme of things, either leveling BLM or WHM first is OK, I suppose.

* * *

Switching between low level BLM and WHM isn't that bad; the main differences are the INT/MND rings, neck piece, and... er... Hands?

You can level them concurrently, and decide what to level each night base on search results. For example, suppose you are Lv.12 for both WHM and BLM:

/sea all 11-13 inv BLM
(Returns a list of all BLM's between Lv.11 to 13 looking for party.)

/sea all 11-14 inv WHM
(Returns a list of all BLM's between Lv.11 to 13 looking for party.)

If plenty of WHM's seeking, you may be better off seeking on BLM instead, and vice versa.

[Jaggs]

The reason for WHM to Lv.18 first is because WHM with no support job isn't all that much less than WHM with support job, while BLM/WHM provides a lot more utility than BLM/---. (Cure is that important at low levels...)

In overall scheme of things, either leveling BLM or WHM first is OK, I suppose.

* * *

Switching between low level BLM and WHM isn't that bad; the main differences are the INT/MND rings, neck piece, and... er... Hands?

You can level them concurrently, and decide what to level each night base on search results. For example, suppose you are Lv.12 for both WHM and BLM:

/sea all 11-13 inv BLM
(Returns a list of all BLM's between Lv.11 to 13 looking for party.)

/sea all 11-14 inv WHM
(Returns a list of all BLM's between Lv.11 to 13 looking for party.)

If plenty of WHM's seeking, you may be better off seeking on BLM instead, and vice versa.


Hey thanks for that information that makes lots of sense..I guess one night I can level 2 levels with blm and the other night 2 levels with whm or both in one night etc. right? or am I wrong? lol....

[IfritnoItazura]

Hey thanks for that information that makes lots of sense..I guess one night I can level 2 levels with blm and the other night 2 levels with whm or both in one night etc. right? or am I wrong? lol....

It's pretty much without limitation; you can switch back and forth as you like. Heck, if you have the time on your hands, level one, end party, switch to the other job, and level that.

One thing, though; once you have unlocked support job ability, you probably should keep the support job at least at half level of the current main job.

[Jaggs]

It's pretty much without limitation; you can switch back and forth as you like. Heck, if you have the time on your hands, level one, end party, switch to the other job, and level that.

One thing, though; once you have unlocked support job ability, you probably should keep the support job at least at half level of the current main job.

ah ok well all just level my black mage to 18 and go back and forth leveling rdm and whm. Also, what items make your MP regenerate faster? is it Ginger cookies? I dont remember lol its been so long sense I played. Also are they any advanced jobs your can recommend for a subjob with a black mage?

[Theyaden]

ah ok well all just level my black mage to 18 and go back and forth leveling rdm and whm. Also, what items make your MP regenerate faster? is it Ginger cookies? I dont remember lol its been so long sense I played. Also are they any advanced jobs your can recommend for a subjob with a black mage?

Ginger cookies are nice at low levels for the increased mana regen
Also I sugest the Pilgrim's Wand http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/6983
NM Nunyenuc. Location: Sarutabaruta West. Level 12
It increases your mana regen while resting.

Regarding subjobs the only one I've ever seen accepted in party is whitemage. Summoner gives a better intelegence and mana bonus. However without the ability to backup cure parties don't like it being used. Redmage gives a lower ammount of mana and no ra abilities. Otherwise /rdm wouldn't be so bad.

My sugestion if you have time is to get whm, blm, rdm, sum to 37 so your set for any mage job.

whm/blm I've found best until level 50 when mana regen on whm/sum becomes optimal
blm/whm all the way
rdm/whm or rdm/sum

[Kirsteena]

rdm/smn has to be one of the worst combinations ever - it gives you absolutely nothing - at least with /whm you have status cures, and /blm you have elemental enfeebles, warp, escape and conserve mp (don't knock conserve mp - it is a fantastic trait). Rdm/smn gives you - a gimped Carbuncle.

blm/smn offers absolutely nothing to either party grouping (yes, blm is a damage dealer, but you are expected to help out and support your party) or to soloing, you don't have the ability to cure yourself if you do get hit.

Ginger cookies offer +hmp, not extra mp. For extra mp at low levels, go with something like Rolanberry pie.

Please, if you are giving advice, get it right.

[IfritnoItazura]

Off topic:
Well, "worst" isn't exactly right. I'd say RDM/SMN is heck of whole lot better than RDM/NIN for exp party use.

There are people who love that combination--the higher max MP is great for Convert (*cough* Galka *cough*), and Auto-Refresh is nothing to sneeze at. Have to confess I'm not a fan, though.

To be honest, at RDM50+, a skillful player can put RDM to good use in any party with any support job--the RDM job itself is that good. That said, if one cannot come up with a great reason for using some random, oddball support job, just go with RDM/WHM for exp parties. Hard to go wrong that way.

* * *

On topic:
Yes, Ginger Cookie (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Ginger_Cookie) (hMP+5, 3 min duration; 12 Gil each from NPC, stacks to 99) and Pilgrim's Wand (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Pilgrim%27s_Wand) (Lv.10, hMP+2; free) are terrific; you'd want those for BLM, WHM, and RDM. Barron's Slops (http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=15405&sid=12) is pretty expensive for Lv.20 gear, and I would not expect new players to have those--still, if you are extraordinarily good with money and can afford that, it's not a bad investment for mage jobs, and it lasts many, many levels.

[Jaggs]

rdm/smn has to be one of the worst combinations ever - it gives you absolutely nothing - at least with /whm you have status cures, and /blm you have elemental enfeebles, warp, escape and conserve mp (don't knock conserve mp - it is a fantastic trait). Rdm/smn gives you - a gimped Carbuncle.

blm/smn offers absolutely nothing to either party grouping (yes, blm is a damage dealer, but you are expected to help out and support your party) or to soloing, you don't have the ability to cure yourself if you do get hit.

Ginger cookies offer +hmp, not extra mp. For extra mp at low levels, go with something like Rolanberry pie.

Please, if you are giving advice, get it right.

ah ok thank u for the information glad someone cleared that up! But whats good for a blm basides whm and rdm? is that like it?? :P

[Jaggs]

Off topic:
Well, "worst" isn't exactly right. I'd say RDM/SMN is heck of whole lot better than RDM/NIN for exp party use.

There are people who love that combination--the higher max MP is great for Convert (*cough* Galka *cough*), and Auto-Refresh is nothing to sneeze at. Have to confess I'm not a fan, though.

To be honest, at RDM50+, a skillful player can put RDM to good use in any party with any support job--the RDM job itself is that good. That said, if one cannot come up with a great reason for using some random, oddball support job, just go with RDM/WHM for exp parties. Hard to go wrong that way.

* * *

On topic:
Yes, Ginger Cookie (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Ginger_Cookie) (hMP+5, 3 min duration; 12 Gil each from NPC, stacks to 99) and Pilgrim's Wand (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Pilgrim%27s_Wand) (Lv.10, hMP+2; free) are terrific; you'd want those for BLM, WHM, and RDM. Barron's Slops (http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=15405&sid=12) is pretty expensive for Lv.20 gear, and I would not expect new players to have those--still, if you are extraordinarily good with money and can afford that, it's not a bad investment for mage jobs, and it lasts many, many levels.

Ok but how do I get this Pilgrim's Wand? What drops it? Also I am kind of bad with money but I do try to make the gil I have last as long as possible. (Only buying stuff that I like really need.) Also all buy me some ginger cookies and Rollenberry pies then xD.

One more thing. Is it hard for a blm to get a party? I was a blm before on my old character didnt play it much, because then I had a problem with getting into parties for some odd reason. But now I am back and I want to try it again, if I cant I wont delete it all just deal with it till someone does want me I guess.

Edit: nvm about how to get the wand I looked at the link u gave me sorry didnt see it at first!

[IfritnoItazura]

But whats good for a blm basides whm and rdm? is that like it?? :P

BLM/NIN (esp. Tarutaru) is pretty neat during the Lv.30's. The idea is to use, say, Huton: Ichi (NIN15) to lower a monster's resistance to Ice magic, then nuke it with Blizzaga (BLM32+) for unresisted, full damage nearly every time.

You can also Dual Wield two wands with INT+ stats, too, for a little extra INT, and Utsusemi: Ichi also give you a little more leeway when nuking, being more reliable than Blink and covers you for three hits instead of two. (The most damaging BLM I've ever seen in Lv.30's range was in fact a JP Tarutaru BLM/NIN--using a Solid Wand in main hand, a High Mana Wand in sub hand, and chomping down Wizard Cookies instead of pies for INT.)

At higher levels (not sure when), it becomes a viable solo'ing support job. At least, it supposed to be one. A friend who was using that kept dying (and using some rather foul language on the LS chat) while solo'ing on that. >_>;

Some people have told me it's also used at end-game, to keep from dying too much when nuking. Not sure exactly how popular it is in that situation, though.

In any case, /NIN is a fringe support job for most people, and you can go from BLM Lv.18 to Lv.75 on /WHM and /RDM easily enough.

Edit:
One more thing. Is it hard for a blm to get a party? I was a blm before on my old character didnt play it much, because then I had a problem with getting into parties for some odd reason. But now I am back and I want to try it again, if I cant I wont delete it all just deal with it till someone does want me I guess.

In my experience, WHM gets better invite rate than BLM in general, and a WHM without support job gets a much better rate than a BLM without support job.

Overall, the BLM's invite rate isn't bad until Lv.55. At which point, a lot of BLM's start to complain about bad invite rate, and attribute it to low HP monsters in Aht Uhgan area. Once hitting Colibri (Lv.65-ish party?), BLM is decidedly unwanted, as those critters can mimic BLM's spell and cast them on the tank/party.

There are people who report having no problem finding parties in the Lv.50's, though, so I'm not sure what to believe. (As for myself, I leveled BLM from 40 to 56 in a static party, so invite rate wasn't an issue.) In any case, BLM can solo and duo ably Lv.50+, so low party invite rate would not block progression.

[Olorin401]

Hmm. Isn't /WHM more useful in parties than /RDM? Fast Cast, Gravity (and maybe Phalanx) is nice when solo'ing as BLM/RDM, but in parties it is probably better to be able to help out with -na spells, toss out an occasional Curaga's and perhaps even an Erase now and then. Raise can come in handy sometimes, too.
I would say /WHM should be most BLM's primary support job for party use, while saving /RDM for solo'ing.
Edit:
I'd go this way:
WHM to Lv.18 > complete support job quest > BLM to Lv.37 > WHM to Lv.37 > continue with BLM until you need a break, then level RDM to Lv.37.
RDM is useful because of Fast Cast and because it gives you additional INT. WHM gives you extra MP and access to the various -na spells and Erase. Both also have their places where they would be useful.

[Evion]

You won't want to be switching back and forth too often. You'll be losing too much time in transit between moogle and PT location, especially if you're talking dunes...

[silentsteel]

well, with the change to Outpost Warp, if they have access to that, it shouldnt be a problem anymore in the dunes. (and I do that all the time anyways lol, switching back & forth between jobs, I just cant keep constant lol, I'd go crazy)

[Cotners]

My opinion:
Whm>10
Blm>20
Whm>37
Rdm>37
Blm>75

As far as some of the things said earlier... /nin sucks for the most part. Dual weild does not compensate for the lack of MP, and the only time it actually helps with soloing is a bad pull on pets.

/rdm if want to put it off, you can. You don't need grav and fast cast til you are soloing roaches and puddings at 74+... I know many blm's that still don't have rdm leveled because they don't care to solo.

[Necropolis]

For normal party play, I always go /whm on blm. Soloing I'll go /rdm, /nin. Manaburn I'll go /rdm or /whm (/whm if we need one person with raise and reraise)

Main things to focus on with blm as you level your subs and what not, are your magic skills! When playing whm or rdm try to cap your enfeebling magic. You'll really need this for the many levels of soloing you'll be doing. Gravity is an incredible spell, but sucks if it only last a few seconds or gets resisted (fairly long recast timer on that). You'll need that enfeebling skill for sleeping as well!

/WHM is the job for party play. /rdm and /nin can be used if you know the people you are partying with and that they won't need your for anything but damage dealing. Also, this is the prefered job for early level soloing for things like poisona, blink and stoneskin at earlier levels than rdm.

/RDM is going to be your main sub for events at higher levels. Fast cast, phalanx, stoneskin, blink, and gravity are your tools for soloing and staying alive in some events.

/NIN is my personal favorite sub from about 45-50. And situational after 50. Many BLM use /nin in dynamis for a much faster casting of utsusemi as opposed to stoneskin and blink. /NIN also give a larger boost to INT than /WHM. Also, pre-elemental staves at 51, the dual wield effect is really nice for some bonus damage. The draw back is no extra MP from the subjob, but not always needed if soloing.

/SMN I've yet to find a use for. It looks nice on paper, but just doesn't work. You'll get the largest boost to int, you'll get more MP, you'll get autorefresh. But you get no utility spells. Many debate that the auto refresh with out naitive conserve MP trait is godly, but really when the spells you're casting are nearly 200 MP a pop, that 1mp/tick just isn't all that useful.

Remember around level 55-60 you're invite rate will nearly disappear completly. Soloing will be your main source of exp, but worry not. When I started soloing I was making better exp than any party I had been invited to in that level range. But it requires patients and decent to excellent gear. And having ALL your applicable subs leveled will help you exp much easier.

I know that many people new to the game want to rush to 75, but I would urge against this. I did that and shot up to whm 75 in about 5 months of playing, and I did so without severly gimping my gear and such. But I spent a lot of time once I got to 75 having to farm up gil for better gear, and various things that I should of picked up along the way.

With BLM being a primarily solo (or a party of blms later on) class now, you'll want to make sure that each and every magic skill you have is capped as you level. Dark, elemental, enfeebling, enhancing all play a major role in you damage. Drain is a great damage spell for the MP cost, but does you no good if your magic skill is too low. When you cast sleep, that means you NEED that mob slept. If you get resisted you're going to have an angrey mob now focused on you!

As for food (I think you said you were a taru, but either way, this is what I used)

Ginger Cookies - are always on me, I've used them from 1-75 on whm and blm

Melon Pies - give you extra MP, and some int. These are a decent cheap food.

Brain Stew - This is the fun food! +5int, +5mnd, some mp, and +3hMP! But cost about 10k on my server, but last 3 hours. This is not my food of choice for most pick up partys. Odds are you'll die at least once before this food wears and there goes your nice food and 10k of your gil.

Black pudding - Area of Effect food! Share with other blms! +4int, + a little mp, +1hMP. Really a decent food for manaburn parties on a budget. Only 5k and can feed a party of 6 for 3 hours.

That's about all I have time for, feel free to ask more questions at any time.

[Theyaden]

rdm/smn has to be one of the worst combinations ever - it gives you absolutely nothing - at least with /whm you have status cures, and /blm you have elemental enfeebles, warp, escape and conserve mp (don't knock conserve mp - it is a fantastic trait). Rdm/smn gives you - a gimped Carbuncle.

blm/smn offers absolutely nothing to either party grouping (yes, blm is a damage dealer, but you are expected to help out and support your party) or to soloing, you don't have the ability to cure yourself if you do get hit.

Ginger cookies offer +hmp, not extra mp. For extra mp at low levels, go with something like Rolanberry pie.
Please, if you are giving advice, get it right.

I quite agree if you are giving advise or critism please think it over rather than attacking someone for offering information. (by all means mention if there is a mistake, but your closing was quite rude) Ginger cookies increased your mana regen when resting. (I checked the post and saw the word regen didn't get in like I thought my appologies for the typo, but I would have appreciated a little courtesy as to my knowledge I've never treated you rudely over a typo. It makes these boards much more pleasant) Ginger cookies are both cheaper than the pies and increasing your mana per resting tick I've found more valuable since your trying to keep your mana lasting rather than have a higher total for the start of the fight.
Blm/sum does not give enough to be worth it and I did indicate blm/whm all the way it give a higher int score, more mana, and a job refresh effect once you hit 50, but you lose the cure spells

I've tried rdm/sum and rdm/whm the /whm is superior, but I mentioned the summoner since rdm unlike blm has some of it's healing ability. If your backup healer rather than main it is possible. I wouldn't bother using summons with /smn unless I'm depoping a mob I strictly look at the sub for it's higher int and mana than whm. With that said whm is still the more ideal sub. The only job I've found smn to be best for is whm at 50+ It can be used in some situations with rdm and blm, but only in limited cases. (especially blm). I like having my options open and still advise having rdm whm smn blm leveled to 37 so they are available to test out when goofing arround to appeciate the differences if nothing else.

[IfritnoItazura]

In some ways, "mana regen" is a bit misleading. Players use "hMP" to denote the "increases the amount of MP recovered while resting" effect. This means hMP is closer to "Clear Mind" traits, where "mana regen" almost seem to suggest Refresh.

Clear Mind I = hMP +3
Clear Mind II = hMP +6 (overrides Clear Mind I)

Ginger/Wizard cookies' effect stack with Clear Mind, of course; Clear Mind I + Ginger Cookies = hMP+8. While resting, the MP recovery would be +20, +21, +22, and so forth. Without cookie, it would be +15, +16, +17, and so forth instead.

* * *

Clear Mind III changes a bit, since it changes increments between ticks from 1 to 2. It's probably more precise to say Clear Mind determines the base hMP instead...

[Jaggs]

O_o thank you all so much for the information lol I get it now..dont really know what to say but that to be quite honest. Hope that doesn't seem rude of me. But yes thank you all soooo much! :)