Smn / Blu

[Cecilisimo]

Hey folks,

Sorry if this has been mentioned before in this forum but i couldn't find it so i thought id ask.

Would SMN/BLU be a good combo? What do you all think would be the PROs and CONs of this combo?

Any help would be great

[Feba]

No.

SMN/WHM. Learn it, live it, love it.

[na2tt300zx]

No.

SMN/WHM. Learn it, live it, love it.

agreed

[Cecilisimo]

Ima def go for SMN/WHM for partying but i was just interested in the possibility of SMN/BLU for soloing, wondered wht the advantages / disadvantages of this combo would be

[LoneGamer]

Usually, soloing as a SMN means Avatar kiting. So, the more MP you have the better. WHM sub > BLU sub for that, too.

[Rain_Blade]

Smn/blu thread: http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/summoner/63457-smn-blu.html

[Cecilisimo]

Hmm ok thanks folks, /BLU might be fun to play around with, but for practicallity of soloing and partying it seems that /BLU just doesnt get good enough stats/spells to be of any real use until 30+ even then it seems very limited in what it can do for you. I think the mana pool from /WHM would be the best bet since the whole point of being SMN is to summon things...the more time you can have them out and the more MP they have disposable for abilites the better. As i understand, the mana pool from /BLM is a benefit too since they have a very high mana pool, however this doesnt seem to appeal to me for similar reasons, even though i play as BLM currently. I've just started lvling my WHM this weekend, so ill get him to a suitable lvl ready for when i unlock SMN.

Thanks for the input folks

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Usually, soloing as a SMN means Avatar kiting. So, the more MP you have the better. WHM sub > BLU sub for that, too.

Soloing also means risking taking lots of damage, at 32, SMN/BLU would have Cocoon, Auto Regen, Beast Killer and Healing Breeze whereas with /WHM they wouldn't have things like Auto Regen til 50. It might only be 20 HP recovered a minute, but when you solo, you might see a bit of resting and this is very potent with the signet changes of late. SMN would still see access to curative magic from Carbuncle and Leviathan and varying levels, too.

/WHM would be better for straight-out curing, but since SMN solo almost always entails doing so at a distance while carby does the work, you shouldn't be in mob range while doing Healing Breeze anyway. Earthen Ward and Aerial Armor are also very useful and I'd think Cocoon would be better in a pinch than Protect or Protect II anyway.

[Cecilisimo]

Soloing also means risking taking lots of damage, at 32, SMN/BLU would have Cocoon, Auto Regen, Beast Killer and Healing Breeze whereas with /WHM they wouldn't have things like Auto Regen til 50. It might only be 20 HP recovered a minute, but when you solo, you might see a bit of resting and this is very potent with the signet changes of late. SMN would still see access to curative magic from Carbuncle and Leviathan and varying levels, too.

/WHM would be better for straight-out curing, but since SMN solo almost always entails doing so at a distance while carby does the work, you shouldn't be in mob range while doing Healing Breeze anyway. Earthen Ward and Aerial Armor are also very useful and I'd think Cocoon would be better in a pinch than Protect or Protect II anyway.

Hmm i think its certainly worth trying out, just to see, its hard to know exactly what it would be like until its tried first hand. Worth trying especially after obtaining Leviathan for the healing abilities. Omgwtfbbqkitten has a good point about auto-regen and caccoon so it could be a viable choice for soloing.

as far as partying goes though i think the best bet is still old faithful SMN/WHM


From reading into the subject more, it seems that as /BLU relies heavily on Physical stats such as STR it would probably be more suited to a melee job such as DRK or PLD than to a SMN, the added extra MP strain of casting blue magic (same goes for BLM) would take time away from avatar lifespan and MP that would be better spent on abilities such as Blinkga and Stoneskinga (in a PT situation anyway) or Levviathans healing abilities.

[Silent Howler]

I've been thinking... Smn/Whm is probably the best overall for party situations, and not a bad combination for solo either...but what about the solo avatar fights?

For Smn/Whm, the spells you may use in those fights are Aquaveil, Protect, Cure, Dia, and Banish. Aquaveil is nice because it lowers your chance of spell interruption. Helpful when you need to get Carby out quick. Protect is a given. Cure is nice in a tight spot and if you have the MP to spare. Dia and Banish are there to use if they're still alive after the three Searing Lights.

Smn/Blu, they can use both Metallic Body and Cocoon, which are nice because it is very likely that you will get hit during these fights. Wild Oats doesn't have much use in battle, but it gives you +10HP, and +HP is suggested. Pollen is basically the same as Cure, but also gives +5HP when set. And then there are a few others that can help beat the avatar if they are still alive towards the end.

Main reason to pick /Whm: Probably Aquaveil.
Main reason to pick /Blu: Probably Metallic Body.

[Icemage]

I've been thinking... Smn/Whm is probably the best overall for party situations, and not a bad combination for solo either...but what about the solo avatar fights?

For Smn/Whm, the spells you may use in those fights are Aquaveil, Protect, Cure, Dia, and Banish. Aquaveil is nice because it lowers your chance of spell interruption. Helpful when you need to get Carby out quick. Protect is a given.

Cure is nice in a tight spot and if you have the MP to spare. Dia and Banish are there to use if they're still alive after the three Searing Lights.

Smn/Blu, they can use both Metallic Body and Cocoon, which are nice because it is very likely that you will get hit during these fights. Wild Oats doesn't have much use in battle, but it gives you +10HP, and +HP is suggested. Pollen is basically the same as Cure, but also gives +5HP when set. And then there are a few others that can help beat the avatar if they are still alive towards the end.

Main reason to pick /Whm: Probably Aquaveil.
Main reason to pick /Blu: Probably Metallic Body.
Are you talking about Prime Avatar fights? Because you do realize you can't use any subjobs in the mini-fork battles, right?

Couple of quick comments on the main topic:

Main reasons to use /WHM:
Protect I/II
Shell I/II
Curaga I/II
Erase and other inexpensive status-removal
Blink
Stoneskin

Main reasons to use /BLU:
Coccoon
Healing Breeze

Metallic Body isn't worth the MP or time to cast. It absorbs so little damage that it's almost obsolete the moment you get it, and never improves. The offensive Blue Magic doesn't do anything when subbed; it stops working on much of anything once you pass around level 10/5. The accuracy of Blue Magic revolves around your Blue Magic skill, so most of the offensive debuffs and attack spells just start failing with no effect beyond that point.

In other words: SMN/BLU is useful up to around level 10, maaybe a level or two beyond.


Icemage

[Silent Howler]

Are you talking about Prime Avatar fights? Because you do realize you can't use any subjobs in the mini-fork battles, right?
Yes you can. For the mini-fork battles at least. How else could I have used Aquaveil after entering the fight?

[Saren]

Nevermind >< Didn't see Silent Howler saying exactly the same thing I was doing. Sorry :)

[Rain_Blade]

Are you talking about Prime Avatar fights? Because you do realize you can't use any subjobs in the mini-fork battles, right?

You can use subjobs. You just can't use any other avatar other than carbuncle if you got those two mixed up.

[Icemage]

Yes you can. For the mini-fork battles at least. How else could I have used Aquaveil after entering the fight?
Hmm... I must be thinking of Maat.

Either way, though, Aquaveil is a level 12 WHM spell. There's no way you can cast it in the avatar fight, with or without a subjob since the level cap is 20.

You can take any buffs you want in with you, however - so you can cast it before going in and have it for however long it lasts.

This is one of those times when you might use /BLU, since Coccoon is only level 8. It might save you a bit of pain and suffering, since you have Pollen to replace Cure I, as well as Coccoon which vastly outperforms Protect.


Icemage

[Rain_Blade]

Hmm... I must be thinking of Maat.

Either way, though, Aquaveil is a level 12 WHM spell. There's no way you can cast it in the avatar fight, with or without a subjob since the level cap is 20.

You can take any buffs you want in with you, however - so you can cast it before going in and have it for however long it lasts.

This is one of those times when you might use /BLU, since Coccoon is only level 8. It might save you a bit of pain and suffering, since you have Pollen to replace Cure I, as well as Coccoon which vastly outperforms Protect.


Icemage

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/images/c/cf/ScrollofAquaveil.PNG

Also, hmm. SMN / BLU does sound pretty effective in those fights.

[Ziero]

Hmm... I must be thinking of Maat.
Either way, though, Aquaveil is a level 12 WHM spell. There's no way you can cast it in the avatar fight, with or without a subjob since the level cap is 20.
You can take any buffs you want in with you, however - so you can cast it before going in and have it for however long it lasts.
This is one of those times when you might use /BLU, since Coccoon is only level 8. It might save you a bit of pain and suffering, since you have Pollen to replace Cure I, as well as Coccoon which vastly outperforms Protect.
Icemage
Aquaveil is 10, I know this cause I have the spell and my Whm is only 10.

As for /whm vs /blu in this, something you should take note of is that both Cocoon and Metallic Body cost a fair bit of MP, have a noticebly high casting time and wear off faster then any protect. Though you could always have protect cast on you and get the best of both worlds making Aquaveil the only real self buff /whm offers. But /whm also gives dia, which in effect could be enough to help you win. Low mp, fast casting, unresistable, it'd be a difference maker in a close fight. I know it helped my friend win her fight against Levi, she dropped before him but he went down to dia shortly after netting her the win.

[Icemage]

Aquaveil is 10, I know this cause I have the spell and my Whm is only 10
Bah, I should have researched it at FFXIclopedia first. :P *slaps self* I'm usually not so careless even in the morning. Been a looong time since I learned Aquaveil on my character (almost 4 years now... oO).

As for /whm vs /blu in this, something you should take note of is that both Cocoon and Metallic Body cost a fair bit of MP, have a noticebly high casting time and wear off faster then any protect. Though you could always have protect cast on you and get the best of both worlds making Aquaveil the only real self buff /whm offers. But /whm also gives dia, which in effect could be enough to help you win. Low mp, fast casting, unresistable, it'd be a difference maker in a close fight. I know it helped my friend win her fight against Levi, she dropped before him but he went down to dia shortly after netting her the win.
Hard to say which would be better, to be honest. Coccoon drops a LOT of damage off per hit since the DEF+50% is so powerful, and it stacks with Protect, which is extra-nice. Of course, the idea is to try not to get hit too much, period, other than to bleed some enmity, so I don't know how useful it really is compared to /WHM for the trial sized fights.

In any case though, I can't imagine wanting to use SMN/BLU in any moderate or high level situation. Blue Magic is so terribly gimped when subbed (almost as much as black magic is). The only exceptions are the healing spells, and the handful of hidden Killer traits you can get by setting combinations of Blue Magic.


Icemage

[Armando]

As for /whm vs /blu in this, something you should take note of is that both Cocoon and Metallic Body cost a fair bit of MP, have a noticebly high casting time and wear off faster then any protect.You mean Metallic Body costs a fair bit of MP and has a high casting time. Cocoon casts as fast as Cure I and only costs 10 MP for a 50% Defense buff.

[Silent Howler]

Metallic Body also lasts for 4 minutes according to FFXI wiki, so it could last through the whole fight. Cocoon is only 90 seconds, but if you use it at the right time it could be a life saver.

[Necropolis]

A friend of mine really does enjoy /blu, mainly for ballista though. While a lot of smn soloing is avatar kiting, you'll reach a level where carbuncle will cost 0 mp to keep out, so max mp is less important. You do want more MP for for blood pacts, but if you're just chipping away with avatar melee then the max MP really means nothing to you.

I havn't personally researched a lot about blu, but know that in smn burn parties, not everone subs whm (usually). Occasionally there will be a /rdm, /nin or /blu to various spells thier sub offers. For soloing, at least until you're aquainted with the process of smn soloing, I'd recommend /whm for reraise and -na spells. Once you're more confident with you abilities feel free to explore anything you think would be beneficial to your exp (or even soloing NMs).

That is one thing I love about soloing, my choice of sub doesn't effect anyone but me, so no one can gripe about how I should play a job they know nothing about.

[Armando]

Metallic Body sucks pretty hard though. The stoneskin only blocks a pretty small amount of HP. It's actually more efficient to just cure yourself, though if you're going to rest to full at the beginning of a fight then it doesn't really hurt to use it that one time.

[Silent Howler]

Really, there's no reason to rest for full MP at the beginning of the fight since you're just going to shoot it all down with Searing Light anyways. And after your first Searing Light your biggest concern is getting 44MP back up. So it might be better to use one long lasting damage reduction spell than try to squeeze in enough MP for Cure. Trying to squeeze in Cocoon would be more effective.

Also, at lvl 20 Smn/Blu has 5 more HP than Smn/Whm. And some of those spells I mentioned earlier can add up to +15HP, giving you a total of 20 more HP than Smn/Whm. Having Cocoon set also gives +3 Vit stat bonus. I think your chances of surviving are a bit higher with Smn/Blu.

[Lmnop]

Has there been any post-2 handed update talk on this subject? It occured to me that at say... level 60. You probably have like 50 DEX? That means this severely guestimated smn/blu would have 25 higher acc than pre-update. This makes your Staff skill much more potent. Just using lots of Bludgeon and Healing Breeze and things seems like it could be quite effective. Basically, you'd end up playing a lot like a BLU main but replacing most of your blue magics with SMN BPs.

I would say leave your avatar out full time for some extra DoT, but I never honestly understood the need to put it away if you're not main healing anyway.

Comparing this to a BLU main: You both have auto refresh, you'd both have decently good acc, you'd both be capable of helping out the party whilst meleeing (though the SMN/blu more with BPs).

Once you get Spirit Taker, I don't see a reason not to.

Granted: We don't need yet another melee. But! Theoretically, is this concept that I threw together whilst typing at all sound?

[Icemage]

Has there been any post-2 handed update talk on this subject? It occured to me that at say... level 60. You probably have like 50 DEX? That means this severely guestimated smn/blu would have 25 higher acc than pre-update. This makes your Staff skill much more potent. Just using lots of Bludgeon and Healing Breeze and things seems like it could be quite effective. Basically, you'd end up playing a lot like a BLU main but replacing most of your blue magics with SMN BPs.

I would say leave your avatar out full time for some extra DoT, but I never honestly understood the need to put it away if you're not main healing anyway.
Comparing this to a BLU main: You both have auto refresh, you'd both have decently good acc, you'd both be capable of helping out the party whilst meleeing (though the SMN/blu more with BPs).

Once you get Spirit Taker, I don't see a reason not to.

Granted: We don't need yet another melee. But! Theoretically, is this concept that I threw together whilst typing at all sound?
After getting access to Spirit Taker, I can maaaaybe see this working. Before then? Not so much. Not resting for MP is a chain-killer, seeing how SMN burn through MP so quickly on Blood Pacts. Unless you have a Corsair AND a RDM to back you up with Evoker's Roll + Refresh or something, I can't see this being a sustainable setup.


Icemage