Double the thief, double the drop?

[Lambeaus]

My static is reaching 50 for the first time (currently 49) and we are starting to collect our genkai (sp) items for the cap quest. Now, the bomb coals weren't an issue. However, 4 of us spent about 30 minutes in the crawlers nest killing Exorays, and didn't get a single drop.

Now for my question. There will be 6 of us going in tomorrow (the crawler links were painful with us at 49). Normal party setup....NIN/WAR, WHM/BLM, RDM/WHM, DRK/WAR, RNG/THF, and I'm BLM/RDM.

The RNG/THF will have treasure hunter? Will it be worthless for me to go BLM/THF for a second player with treasure hunter? We will have a RDM and WHM for healing, and these mobs come us as Tough so they will be going down fairly quick anyway, I won't be needed for healing. Heck, when the three of us were there last time I was nuking here and there while doing some real nice damage with my scythe.

We still need 5 Exoray drops, 5 Lich drops, and two drops for the guys that weren't there for the Explosures. I'm thinking it my /THF will add to the drop rate, I might as well go with it.

[Lunaryn]

Treasure Hunter effects stack. The more party members being /THF15+, the higher the drop rate should be.

[silentsteel]

yeah, Treasure hunter doesnt stack, would be more beneficial to sub something else

Edit: maybe it does, I've heard it doesnt.

[Lambeaus]

lol

who to believe?

[na2tt300zx]

It doesnt stack, thats what i heard

[Mhurron]

It does and it doesn't, it depends on what you mean by stack. Ever noticed how you get in general get more drops from things as a party? Drops are calculated per member and dumped into the treasure pool. So if you have 2 or more people with TH, you have more chances that applying TH to the drops gets you what you want.

[Gobo]

I believe the only official word (from the Dev team during an interview) on treasure hunter is that the THF or /THF has to be in the Party in the zone for it to kick in (though some will say that the THF or /THF has to hit the mob as well).

That being said, the most commonly believed idea is that TH just adds an extra "roll" on whether an item will drop (items are believed to be distributed through a hidden random number generator system and rolling over the set value(s) makes the item drop. Each person in the PT adds a roll as well) and more than one THF or /THF per PT doesn't help. This is, of course, just theory and guessing. The only 100% true part is the in the first paragraph.

[Omni]

this is one of those things that the dev's wont fully reveal. for obvious purposes.

i believe all what was really said in the interview was what gobo said. that they had to be in pt in the zone. i think they kinda eluded to the fact that you didnt need to hit the mob or get kill shot. still, its all very secretive.

[Necropolis]

Just from observation, I'd have to believe that it does stack in a way. Treasure hunter can't just make and "extra roll" because would that effect Treasure Hunter 2 and Treasure Hunter + items effect the roll? Does it add another roll or increase percentage of drop rates?

I tend to think that each mob has a percent chance of dropping, and some random generator decides ultimatly on weather it drops or not. For example, lets say the random number generated is between 1 and a 100. For an item to drop that has say a 5% drop rate the number generated would have to be 1, 2,3, 4, or 5. I believe what TH does is increase the range of numbers that will make an item drop. Lets say TH1 adds 5% to the drop rate, now you could get a 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, or 10 and the item will drop. TH2 lets say adds 15% total to a drop rate you could get 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14, or 15. Items would add thier respective values as well.

This however doesn't address weather or not two TH1 from seperate party members add to the overall drop rate, or in essence stack.

From personal experience I'd have to say it does. When my LS does Limbus with multiple /thf or thf mains we see a significantly larger coin drop rate. My dyna shells see a significant boost in AF drops when all the thfs are present as well. With 9 thfs with TH4 (traits, knife, af) we've received 11 afs and 3 100 from an ice zone, which compared to many shells is a very good run. We've gotten over 20 afs/100s in cities with a full thf force.

It's hard to get accurate values on common drops like LB1 items and farming items as there are other factors as well (moon phase and probably several other factors). The only conformation I've been able to find by an official post of SE is that level difference of mobs and players has zero effect on the drop rate.

In conclusion, I'm convinced that TH effects from multiple people will increase drop rates. But as drop rates are variable as it is (with moon phase), it's hard to say if you'll notice the difference. I believe I'm also being generous in giving TH1 a 5% increase, it may be closer to 1%-3% increase in drop rates.

The liches will be, in my opinion, your hardest obsticle in LB1. Undead aggro low HP and sound, and are resistant to any type of damage except blunt. There are, I believe, 6 liches in the top rooms of the Necropolis, 2 below the main center room, and a few more through the glacier entrance. 16 minute respawns will drag this event out over hours and possibily days depending on your luck. I would recommend scheduling your next run for these to be during a full moon as drop rate is suppose to increase.

Sorry for the long post, and good luck. Hope this has been at least half way helpful.

EDIT: After reading through my first part of the post, it almost seems as though with enough thfs you'd have 100% drop rate. This surely cannot be, so I'm sure there is some point of diminishing returns or a cap on drop rate percentages.

[Omni]

I think there are way too many factors to consider and probably some we havent even thought of, that play a role in influencing drops.

I've gone to kirin with 1 THF, and just TH2 and gotten some drops like osode+dbody+ignots. I've also gone to kirin with 2 THFs at TH3 both and gotten 3 crystals and 2 o.ingots. This goes for a lot of other events and mobs too. It's too haphazard to pin any sort of pattern down.

I think people want to be able to attribute their drops/luck to something so when they get good drops, they start looking for ways to explain it.

oh! its almost full moon and oh its like the th2 thf we had get the last hit or etc etc.

until we get more info from devs i think this sorta thing is going to always remain for the most part, a mystery.

edit: i know that some people have done tests on such things as killing crawlers for silks. however, a lot of these tests are full of holes and it still doesnt say for sure how much each TH is worth.

[Mhurron]

For the OP's specific problem (getting G1 items) your best bet is probably take what ever subjob lets you last the longest and help your party the best. The fastest way to get multiple items like these is to kill the mobs as fast as possible, maximizing the possibility that what you want drops.

[Malacite]

TH and TH2 from what I can tell seem to add an extra value to your "roll" on a drop, likely by a small %.

That said, it does seem as though the more party members you have the more rolls you get on an item. In that way, TH stacks by increasing the odds of each person's roll. You can't stack it in the sense that if you had 6 THF's there'd be enough TH mods to gurantee a drop (which is too bad, but oh well)

[little ninja]

I think there are way too many factors to consider and probably some we havent even thought of, that play a role in influencing drops.
I've gone to kirin with 1 THF, and just TH2 and gotten some drops like osode+dbody+ignots. I've also gone to kirin with 2 THFs at TH3 both and gotten 3 crystals and 2 o.ingots. This goes for a lot of other events and mobs too. It's too haphazard to pin any sort of pattern down.
I think people want to be able to attribute their drops/luck to something so when they get good drops, they start looking for ways to explain it.
oh! its almost full moon and oh its like the th2 thf we had get the last hit or etc etc.
until we get more info from devs i think this sorta thing is going to always remain for the most part, a mystery.
edit: i know that some people have done tests on such things as killing crawlers for silks. however, a lot of these tests are full of holes and it still doesnt say for sure how much each TH is worth.

Thats how i feel with Dyn runs. We have allot of thfs spread out in parties with T.H3. An one of our new Thfs has the Af2 gloves. An our drops are no better then when we went 2 days earlier with hardly any thfs.

T.H2, + T.H+1 +T.H+1 An thats not including the the other thfs with their +3 T.H. Or any of our /thfs. An yet i seen some really shitty drops across the gaming board.

[Lambeaus]

Thanks for all the insightful posts, lots of interesting theories :P
I think tonight I'll go BLM/THF, and the others will stay the same so there is no slowdown in the kills. :)

[Omni]

I think the best idea for you guys is to go with your most optimal job combos. If you guys aren't getting any outside help from high lvl players, its going to be very rough for a Pt of 49s.

I'd suggest you go as blm/whm so you still have the ability to help cure if things get bad.

[Callisto]

I think the best idea for you guys is to go with your most optimal job combos. If you guys aren't getting any outside help from high lvl players, its going to be very rough for a Pt of 49s.

I'd suggest you go as blm/whm so you still have the ability to help cure if things get bad.

I'd agree on this one for a few reasons. First off, Exorays are just plain freaking mean. They don't mess around at all, especially at lvl 49. Secondly does TH stack? Yes it does, however if my understanding is correct, only TH2 will have a real effect on a RA/EX item such as the GK1 drops, so unless you have a THF main it won't make a huge difference. Third, the drop rate is probably going to suck no matter what you guys do. It's a rare item, the drop rate is supposed to be low. The best you can really do is slaughter the mobs with your fingers crossed and hope the items drop quickly.

[Lambeaus]

I think the best idea for you guys is to go with your most optimal job combos. If you guys aren't getting any outside help from high lvl players, its going to be very rough for a Pt of 49s.

I'd suggest you go as blm/whm so you still have the ability to help cure if things get bad. Didn't see this in time, and went with BLM/THF. The party didn't have any problems at all, however I'm not so sure having myself sub THF helped at all. It took us over three hours, well over 50 Exorays, to get five of those damn molds to drop :angry:

This game sucks!!! :vent:

Haven't touched the Liches yet. They had BETTER have a better drop rate...

[Mhurron]

Haven't touched the Liches yet. They had BETTER have a better drop rate...
:rofl:

Oh wait, you're serious?

[Murphie]

Poor thing. I remember the first time my friends and I did that, it took the better part of a week to get everyone's Papyrus.

[Lambeaus]

:rofl:

Oh wait, you're serious?

It is worse!?!? http://www.kittiesandrainbows.com/images/smilies/custom_smilies/icon_down.gif

I've only been in the Eldieme Necropolis, once for my Mea scroll quest, and once for my NPC Buddy quest, both time I didn't go very far in.

I hope you are pulling my leg http://www.kittiesandrainbows.com/images/smilies/custom_smilies/hmm.gif

[Murphie]

Alas!

[na2tt300zx]

Didn't see this in time, and went with BLM/THF. The party didn't have any problems at all, however I'm not so sure having myself sub THF helped at all. It took us over three hours, well over 50 Exorays, to get five of those damn molds to drop :angry:

This game sucks!!! :vent:

Haven't touched the Liches yet. They had BETTER have a better drop rate...

Well last night i was there helping a friend (50rdm) and i went as 74thf with TH2+1 and another drg friend.....took us 4 1/2 hours to get a damn lich to drop the papyrus crap, so yeah maybe it was the moon or the thf didnt get last hit or the speed of which the world turns was altered, but hey look on the bright side we got over 15 chest keys!

[Mhurron]

I hope you are pulling my leg http://www.kittiesandrainbows.com/images/smilies/custom_smilies/hmm.gif
Three times I can remember people doing the papyrus.

My Own: With a 75 THF and high level DD with myself as lvl50 RDM - not counting travel time 30 minutes for the drop.

Helping someone: 30~60 min for one drop

A friend who went with a 75thf and one or two other DD around lvl 75 - 6 hours for one drop.

The drop rate is unpredictable but leans towards really, really bad.

[Callisto]

Haha one of my friends leveled to 50 RNG...then got 2/3 of the GK1 items, needed the paper. It took him nearly 3 months, in that time he had leveled 4 other jobs to 50 while trying to get a paper once a week, usually spending 3-4 hours at a time.

Glad I don't have to do that again! XD

[Murphie]

I've done it four times now (for myself). It doesn't get any easier, let me tell you.

[Lambeaus]

ugh, we have to get FIVE of these damn things!!!

[Mhurron]

ugh, we have to get FIVE of these damn things!!!
Ya, good luck with that. I'd suggest finding some higher help, but then you'd find you're killing them faster then they respawn so it doesn't help that much.

On the upside, I found G2 to be a lot more fun then G1 was, so you do have a little to look forward to.

[RoffIes]

LOL!! this is gonna be bad. Thanks for the input guys, but I almost would have preferred going into this knowing nothing! :(

[Lambeaus]

Ya, good luck with that. I'd suggest finding some higher help, but then you'd find you're killing them faster then they respawn so it doesn't help that much.

On the upside, I found G2 to be a lot more fun then G1 was, so you do have a little to look forward to. yes, our sixth in our static who is playing RDM, also has a 75 PLD. He'll be bringing that. We used it last night for getting the Exoray Molds. Only problem we had was the lack of Exorays.

From what I hear the respawn rate for the Liches are nothing to brag about either.

[Lambeaus]

Hey roffles :)

[Sevv]

lol i never had a problem with the papyrus usually 1/1 or 1/2 lol

[Lambeaus]

lol i never had a problem with the papyrus usually 1/1 or 1/2 lol how woudl you like to change servers?

[LyonheartLakshmi]

If you're lucky, you may find a soloing BST in Crawler's Nest who will help you with the Exoray Mold drops. When I exp'ed there in the early 50s, I got a few Exoray Molds that I had to simply toss.

A solo player can make sure drops go into the loot chest if they make sure their inventory stays full. I've done this in the past by simply unstacking stuff, so I have a bunch of singles filling up my pack. After a fight, I can manually sort to stack just enough of them to get the drops I want from the chest. If you can talk a solo'ing BST into doing this, they can just keep exp'ing as usual, and invite on of your friends to join his party temporarily when an Exoray Mold drops.

[Lambeaus]

If you're lucky, you may find a soloing BST in Crawler's Nest who will help you with the Exoray Mold drops. When I exp'ed there in the early 50s, I got a few Exoray Molds that I had to simply toss.

A solo player can make sure drops go into the loot chest if they make sure their inventory stays full. I've done this in the past by simply unstacking stuff, so I have a bunch of singles filling up my pack. After a fight, I can manually sort to stack just enough of them to get the drops I want from the chest. If you can talk a solo'ing BST into doing this, they can just keep exp'ing as usual, and invite on of your friends to join his party temporarily when an Exoray Mold drops. There was one BST down there, and he was an asshole! We go down there, and start killing exorays. He sends me a nasty /tell saying 'gtfo I was here first you are killing my xp'. I tried apologize, saying I didn't notice him (I didn't) and telling him we weren't exactly sure where we should be. I told him our situation and asked if he could direct us to another location. He wasn't a help at all, just said head north and just told us to leave and kept throwing insults at me. So I inform him that I'm blacklisting him and heading north. We head north....dead end with nothing there :angry:

I really don't care to talk to people that don't listen and don't care to help us out to get us out of his hair :vent:

Anyways, we finally find a spot in a cave with 4 Exorays at one end, and the PLD pulls from the main room when needed. We managed to get all 5 drops that we needed.



But I know what you are getting at. When grinding off of bats and beetles in the basement of the shitadel, a few of us got coffer keys for our AF from a group of 3 real kind people doing something else somewhere else. Why can't everyone be kind like that?

[na2tt300zx]

There was one BST down there, and he was an asshole! We go down there, and start killing exorays. He sends me a nasty /tell saying 'gtfo I was here first you are killing my xp'.

Meh i dont blame him i hate when people run up in my camp to exp, but in your case you werent exping so i would offer to invite if i got drop in that situation, but i would ask you to move somewhere else in the mean time.

[Vyuru]

It took me about, 10 hours to get a papyrus drop from the liches, so yeah....

It took 5 minutes to get my mold though, but the blm who escaped us forgot to pass on the lot for it, took about 4 hours for my second mold :/

Good luck with the bomb ash, a very kind bst helped us out with those, sending countless Funnel Bats to die against them, we all got our bomb ashes pretty quickly, say about 30min-1hr for 4 bomb ashes to drop, we may have gotten lucky though.

[Lambeaus]

Meh i dont blame him i hate when people run up in my camp to exp, but in your case you werent exping so i would offer to invite if i got drop in that situation, but i would ask you to move somewhere else in the mean time. I kept telling him that we would be glad to move, and asked for advice. Trust me, the beetles and crawlers roaming around weren't making things any easier on us, we didn't WANT to be there :wasted:

We did end up moving. I know it isn't right if he was there first, but it would have been nice if he wasn't so offensive and a little more helpful.

[Lambeaus]

It took me about, 10 hours to get a papyrus drop from the liches, so yeah....

It took 5 minutes to get my mold though, but the blm who escaped us forgot to pass on the lot for it, took about 4 hours for my second mold :/

Good luck with the bomb ash, a very kind bst helped us out with those, sending countless Funnel Bats to die against them, we all got our bomb ashes pretty quickly, say about 30min-1hr for 4 bomb ashes to drop, we may have gotten lucky though. LOL, those are good drops.

Three of us were on earlier in the week (without higher help) and took about 5 Explosures. Last night we needed two more. First one didn't drop. Second one dropped THREE. Unfortunately, one of the players that needed the drop DCed and never came back...so we'll have to go back once more -_-

[Necropolis]

I kept telling him that we would be glad to move, and asked for advice. Trust me, the beetles and crawlers roaming around weren't making things any easier on us, we didn't WANT to be there :wasted:

We did end up moving. I know it isn't right if he was there first, but it would have been nice if he wasn't so offensive and a little more helpful.

I have a tendency to be defensive of my camps, but relieze there is nothing I can really do about it. So I consider my options: 1) Bitch and moan to them and achieve nothing but pissing them off or 2) Stop what I'm doing, get what they want so they GTFO of my area >.>;;

Soloing BLM in Newtown I had this problem often as people came through for Gold keys, coffer keys or what ever drop they wanted. I'd just take the 30 minutes out of my exp session and help them get what they want. And really a mob like exo's may be exp to some bst, but it also drops an item that every player over level 50 needed to kill to level past that point. I would like to think most people know this and would understand why you all were there and look over any problems it might cause him.

As for the paper from liches, it can be good or bad. I spent about 20 hours over 3 days trying to get mine. But I've helped people get thier's withing a few kills. I have noticed though that once the first one drops another usually drops soon afterwards. If your pld friend has club skilled at all that will be a huge help in kill speed as bones are weak to blunt.

I would, despite what effect TH may or may not have on drop rates, sincerly suggest /whm for the necropolis. You have nothing you can drain in the necropolis (all undead) and if anyone apart from the 75 pld gets yellow HP you have to worry about blood aggro. I also suggest trying to farm them as close to a full moon as you can, as this is the biggest factor in drop rates that I've noticed. I've gone with 4 75 thfs with AF2 hands and theif's knife and not seen that paper drop in over 3 hours during a new moon. And I've seen it drop with no thfs present on a full moon.

As I said in my other post, the respawn time is about 16 minutes, and if you just take the top route (so you don't have to exit and come back around) you'll have 6 liches to kill. Have someone at the switch for the doors (as some asshat will close it on you if you're competing for mobs).

I wish you best of luck on all your papers.

[Lambeaus]

I have a tendency to be defensive of my camps, but relieze there is nothing I can really do about it. So I consider my options: 1) Bitch and moan to them and achieve nothing but pissing them off or 2) Stop what I'm doing, get what they want so they GTFO of my area >.>;; I wasn't asking for his help, I was just asking him where we could go, other than 'the f*** out' :( I didn't want to take his xp camp, and thought that there had to be another spot with exorays.

Also, as I was leaving I saw another party of 4 people around level 45. I guessed they were looking for the same thing we were.



I would, despite what effect TH may or may not have on drop rates, sincerly suggest /whm for the necropolis. You have nothing you can drain in the necropolis (all undead) and if anyone apart from the 75 pld gets yellow HP you have to worry about blood aggro. I also suggest trying to farm them as close to a full moon as you can, as this is the biggest factor in drop rates that I've noticed. I've gone with 4 75 thfs with AF2 hands and theif's knife and not seen that paper drop in over 3 hours during a new moon. And I've seen it drop with no thfs present on a full moon.Thanks for the tips!! I'll definitely go BLM/WHM or BLM/RDM. Maybe the NIN will sub THF if the PLD helps out. Who knows, it almost seems that TH1 doesn't do much good after last night.




As I said in my other post, the respawn time is about 16 minutes, and if you just take the top route (so you don't have to exit and come back around) you'll have 6 liches to kill. Have someone at the switch for the doors (as some asshat will close it on you if you're competing for mobs).



Which entrance are you talking? We planned on going into the entrance through Beaucedine Glacier, as another site mentioned that is the best for Liches. Is the the 'top route' that you refer to?



I wish you best of luck on all your papers. Thanks! I think we'll need it!

[Lambeaus]

Also, if a mod wants to move this from this forum to a quest forum, and change the title, that is fine with me. It seems to have changed from a Thief sub to this level cap quest :o

[Eauijhkuu]

Treasure hunter doesn't stack,

And yet it does.

only to an extent.


When you think about the effected drop rate of crystals with signet, it would seem that every member with signet on makes some kind of roll for drop rate...
The same would be said for those people who did have Treasure Hunter traits added.

While the effect doesn't necessarily stack, the chance increases that you might actually find more drops than you would without it.

And that's about as much as we have to go on since SE refuses to give us much more information about the skill.

As long as the THF or /15THF is in the experience range, TH is being checked.

. . . I can't really remember how long it took me to get my paper. It's a hard drop. Some people got it 1/1 w/o TH. Some people w/ TH took days to get.

But that doesn't by any means make TH useless at all.

[Necropolis]

Which entrance are you talking? We planned on going into the entrance through Beaucedine Glacier, as another site mentioned that is the best for Liches. Is the the 'top route' that you refer to?



The entrance I prefer is the one south of jeuno in batallia downs. Don't have the map on me atm, but just head out of jeuno and head south toawards the water past the cerment wall. Thats the main map of the necropolis and has the most liches accessable.

[Tokitoki]

In the Glacier entrance there are about 8 Liches I believe, and thats just in the larger room at the bottom. I believe there are 2 more, one on each side of the hallway in smallers room on the way down, and possibly 2 or 3 more in a smaller room before the 2 larger rooms. I know for a fact tehre are 2 in the hallway, and at least 6 in the tweo larger rooms, but I cant remember if tehre are more. Going off my memory here and its been years since I was there.

If you go to the Glacier entrance be sure to camp in the middle of the tunnel between the two large rooms of Liches. It's the safest place to be because of blood aggro.

[Lambeaus]

LOL! Hmmm.....who is right, both spots can't hold the most Liches :P

[Tokitoki]

The only Liches I remember in the South Bat. entrance to Necropolis are the Liches that are inbetween the doors that stand aroudn teh lanterns... Theres maybe 1-2 in each of these small rooms <.<

[Lambeaus]

The only Liches I remember in the South Bat. entrance to Necropolis are the Liches that are inbetween the doors that stand aroudn teh lanterns... Theres maybe 1-2 in each of these small rooms <.< Wikepedia also states that the glacier entrance is better, and is the best exluding the accessablility.

[Vyuru]

I would recommend the Glacier > S. Battalia entrance. You will not be getting blood aggro from other skeletons and stuff, no elementals spawn there, and the only potential aggro will be from the undead dog thingies.

The other camp has an elemental spawn fairly close to it as I recall, and some undead can wander uncomfortably close to it for blood aggro.

anndddd need to run to class! eep! add more later

[Lambeaus]

Last night we camped in the tunnel at I8 from the glacier entrance. We had a RNG/THF, farmed for 4 hours, and got 3 Ancient Papyrus. First one took a few hours before it dropped. Then the mob that we all agreed would be the last one for the night, dropped our third :D


Still need 2 more for our static yet. Seems like we'll never get them.

[Murphie]

Well, if you got three last night alone, I don't think it should take too long for that final 2. :)

[na2tt300zx]

nice 3 in 4 hours is very good i think, gl on last two!

[Tokitoki]

The last time I went there everyone was ready for a long night in the Necropolis and we got the papy on our first kill...