Level 60 Avatar battles?

[Chro]

Right, got a few questions about these. I'm fed up of trying to fight the level 20 avatar fights because i've tried Shiva and Titan each around 8 times now and it's just becoming annoying and a big drain on my wallet :P

I've seen level 15 summoners with all the avatars so therefore i figure they've gotten help from higher level characters to get them, so i figured i may as well do the same.

First off, i just wondered if there are any people on the servers that actually go around helping guys like me fighting these battles? And if so what kind of price would i be looking at the get help??

Second, i am aware that to get to the protocrystal to fight the mini battles i can use my mini tuning fork to warp, can i do this to gain access whilst in possesion of a tuning fork key item?

Third, am i a quitter for giving up after 8 times? :P

Any help would be appreciated

[KingOfZeal]

1) Yes. You should be able to find people to help without too much trouble if you shout in whitegate. Many people will go for the rewards (gil, or things like Ifrit's Blade, or to collect whispers for Fenrir). Don't expect to have to pay anything, unless it's someone who's soloing them.

2) The mini fork is only usable by summoners. So, unless you have a 60+ summoner, you can't use it. However, you can still get access to both the mini fork and the key item fork at the same time.

3) Yes. Yes you are. Go after Ifrit, he's the easiest IMO. I got him after many (unsuccessful) tries with Titan and Shiva. I got them in that order after I got Ifrit. And remember: once you hit Astral Flow, do NOT MOVE FOR ANYTHING. It'll interrupt carby's Searing Light. Oh, and speaking of, you'll need at least 40 MP when it goes off, or it'll be extremely gimped.

[Amele]

Right, got a few questions about these. I'm fed up of trying to fight the level 20 avatar fights because i've tried Shiva and Titan each around 8 times now and it's just becoming annoying and a big drain on my wallet :P
I've seen level 15 summoners with all the avatars so therefore i figure they've gotten help from higher level characters to get them, so i figured i may as well do the same.
First off, i just wondered if there are any people on the servers that actually go around helping guys like me fighting these battles? And if so what kind of price would i be looking at the get help??

yes, and you'll probably need to pay a pretty decent sum (back in the day it used to be ~100k per avatar, but with the economy as depressed as it is, it's probably less now) I'd likely do all 6 for 100k now, personally. if your whm job was closer to level 60 (most people would want a 75 still, but at 60 a whitemage has pretty much everything they'd use in the fight except raise III) you could just grab any of the numerous pickup shouts going on in whitegate. - this is how 'most' of those level 15 summoners you saw got their avatars.


Second, i am aware that to get to the protocrystal to fight the mini battles i can use my mini tuning fork to warp, can i do this to gain access whilst in possesion of a tuning fork key item?

yes, but it's fun to make the run too.

Third, am i a quitter for giving up after 8 times? :P

no. but don't give up just yet! it's probably worth considering how much this might cost, and try both avenues as you can.

[Necropolis]

I wouldn't think that you'd have to pay to get help with the 6 main avatars, Fenrir and Diabolos though would require you have a higher level job and certain missions done.

Red Mages and Summoners can solo most of the primes, and any Ninja and White Mage can duo them. If you know any higher level nin and whm you can ask them to help you get them and go that route. If your whm was level 40 you could probably just go with a nin. The only things the nin is haste, and maybe a raise if he's killed by Astral Flow. You'll want to have the nin pull the avatar down the ramp around the bend and you stand up on top to avoid being hit by astral flow.

Alternativly is nin/rdm could probably solo it with out a whm to back him up since he'd have fast cast and stoneskin.

Fenrir is a more difficult battle and harder to do with a leech so I'd wait on him. Diabolos is near impossible to do with a leech, and you'll need to be past the first diabolos fight in CoP to obtain him.

For reward I'd offer a Reraise Gorget since you won't have Raise III on your whm, but I frown on people that charge to help. They're already getting either 10k from the fight or an item/whisper that they want.

Some summoners think it's a "Right of Passage" to do the mini-fights, I don't really care though. Also, if I'm not mistaken about this, theres and advantage to doing the primes over the mini fights. I believe you'll lose your mini-tuning fork if you complete the mini battle. And you'll be unable to get another. Wear as you can just get the mini forks and do the primes, saving you a lot of time in travelling whenever you want to the primes as a higher level summoner later on.

Good luck.

[Amele]

For reward I'd offer a Reraise Gorget since you won't have Raise III on your whm, but I frown on people that charge to help. They're already getting either 10k from the fight or an item/whisper that they want.

10k isn't enough to get most 75's to go run the route to several of the BC's; especially if they're doing them as a favor for some stranger. I charge to help because I'm being asked to do a mercenary task (being hired for my ability to win the fight) and expect a mercenary fee.

I also can't remember the last time I needed an item from any fight other than fenrir.

[Murphie]

I'd be happy to solo them if someone were to ask (and I had the appropriate Whisper available). But I'm not everybody (some may say "thankfully").

[Chro]

Well yeah i'm happy to pay if need be, but yeah i see what you mean they will get a whisper, item or 10k reward anyways so thats fair i guess.

And yeah i did see it as a kind of "rite of passage" into summoner, but now after trying about 16 times for one avatar it's just become a pain!

Thanks for all the info anyways!

[Mhurron]

I wouldn't think that you'd have to pay to get help with the 6 main avatars
You probably would if you're planning on leeching them from people who are not good friends or good ls mates.

Personally, I like doing the Prime avatars when everyone going is at some level to help. I have done it with a 75 PLD, a 75RDM (myself), another 75 DD (MNK? can't remember) and 2 lvl 40 WHM. The WHM were a help, I don't remember having to do much curing except after the avatars 2h.On the other hand, I wouldn't go out and do it for someone who was just leeching. For that, you'd have to give me some incentive.

Third, am i a quitter for giving up after 8 times? Well, there's an old man standing between you and lvl75, so you might want to get used to hard(ish), solo fights.

[Amele]

Well, there's an old man standing between you and lvl75, so you might want to get used to hard(ish), solo fights.

is smn maat that hard? (with a smn at 39 I've obviously never fought him).

some of the fights are ridiculously easy (sup bard, ranger) and some are coin flips (sup blm) and some are stupid tough (redmage comes to mind, paladin isn't too easy either apparently.) but I'm not sure where summoner falls in that list.

[Necropolis]

I agree that the solo fights are a good soloing practice exercise, but I don't think they really apply that much to later on. At level 20 you don't have auto refresh, ying yang robe, elemental staves and evokers ring to bring down perpetual cost. Most smn soloing involves slowly meleeing it to death with carby or another cheap avatar of the day.

They will regardless give some experience into astral flow tactics and what not though.

Personnaly I leeched the avatar fights as a 50ish whm when I wanted to take up summoner (which I've yet to level past 25) and didn't have to pay anything for them. 2 of the fights I got help from a friend who's LS I later joined, the other 4 were just shouts that I either joined or shouted for help.

As for a reward, the reason I frown at the idea is that I received so much help along the way (Limit Breaks, AF, Rank missions and such) that didn't charge me so that I in turn help people when I can without expectation of payment. I suppose your views will vary depending on whom you met and got help from while leveling.

Personally I like to do some things like Prime fights just to prove that I can as a whm/nin. I can solo Titan, Ifrit, Ramuh, and Shiva. Garuda and Levithan I always time out on since they have those annoying healing moves and I just can't pump out enough damage in the time allowed. All I was trying to say is that there are a number of people that will do the fight for free if you can find them. But I would try to set it up in advance and don't expect them to do all 6 in one setting. It is boresome to run and get forks then run to all the cloisters, and Primes is not something I just hop up and gear up for on a whim.

As for what the reward should be given that you take that route, I would think 100k a fight is a bit much in todays economy. I often see 10k reward offered, meaning that the people helping would get 20k total. 20k in todays economy is a rather nice chunk of change, will at least pay for food in thier next party.

Good luck.

[Callisto]

10k isn't enough to get most 75's to go run the route to several of the BC's; especially if they're doing them as a favor for some stranger. I charge to help because I'm being asked to do a mercenary task (being hired for my ability to win the fight) and expect a mercenary fee.

I also can't remember the last time I needed an item from any fight other than fenrir.

I have to agree there, while I have no problem helping friends, and avatars are ridiculously easy fights as rdm/nin, and I'm pretty sure I could take them /drk as well...but, at the same time between the fights and travel that's a solid 2 hours to do a full 6-avatar cycle, and to collect the 60k for beating them would take another 30 minutes of travel, as well as cost of OPs and such, so yeah, some extra compensation would be appreciated.

[hongman]

I'll append to this thread if the OP doesnt mind, or mods break it off if they feel it is better to do so.

I just soloed my first avatar yesterday as RDM/NIN, and while it wasnt exactly "hard", it wasnt "riduclously easy" (which what I call something like killing Lesser Colibri).

I went 1/2 on Titan. The first time round I ran out of MP and got hit by Stone IV with SS down after Convert. Myabe bad luck, who knows.

Second time I beat him without Convert, plenty of MP left and in 15mins.

If you were on my server Id help you, since Im going on a marathon Avatar spree anyway to 1) prove to myself I can solo them and 2) Get fenrir

[Mhurron]

I agree that the solo fights are a good soloing practice exercise, but I don't think they really apply that much to later on. At level 20 you don't have auto refresh, ying yang robe, elemental staves and evokers ring to bring down perpetual cost. Most smn soloing involves slowly meleeing it to death with carby or another cheap avatar of the day.
I am definitely not saying that if you beat the trial-size battles your good to go on Maat, or that if you don't your screwed with the old man, but that you are eventually going to have to get used to soloing something thats a little harder then a Tiny Mandragora.

That probably goes for all jobs really.

[Mhurron]

I'm pretty sure I could take them /drk as well
I tried Shiva as RDM/DRK. It didn't look promising, she was hitting too fast. Which of the Primes the easiest? I might try again with that one, unless people say Shiva.

[hongman]

I heard the SMN maat was pretty much luck - see who gets off the first AF...

That what I heard tho, dont take it as absolute gospel.

[kglover1969]

In my Opinion, you should bit the bullet and beat the level 20 avatar fights. Instead of using your time and effort into getting 5 level 75 players to help you. Just figure out the way to beat the solo battles. Determine what your are doing incorrectly, and change it.

You are a smn, and because of that you need to step your game up. Make sure you fight the avatars on the elemental day that the avatar is week too. And use steam crab to reduce damage. And make sure to stick 3 Astral flows ftw.

I have done the level 60 fights alot and I did the level 20 fights to obtain all of my avatars. (level 75 smn now with all avatars)

But that is just my opinion.

[Necropolis]

I tried Shiva as RDM/DRK. It didn't look promising, she was hitting too fast. Which of the Primes the easiest? I might try again with that one, unless people say Shiva.

Titan is generally considered the easiest. Stone spells are the weakest element and Titan weak to wind (gravity, not sure if they can be silenced at all) So if sh*t hits the fan you can gravity and run for a moment's rest. Titan is the first one I defeated as Whm/Nin, and is rather easy (requires concentration and timing, but not much else)

I certainly didn't mean my statement about soloing that the mini-fights are bad practice. Or that they had any influence as to weather or not Maat would be troublesome if you didn't do them. But there are cheaper ways to practice than blowing gil on meds/equipment and time traveling on the mini battles. Since the main strategy in the mini fights in Astral Flow, max mp doesn't mean much. Where as soloing NM's or mobs for exp your goal is to strech your MP as far as possible. This means having as low of a perpetual cost as possible (at the relevant level of course) and maximizing Blood Pact damage to dish out the bulk of the damage.

[Callisto]

I tried Shiva as RDM/DRK. It didn't look promising, she was hitting too fast. Which of the Primes the easiest? I might try again with that one, unless people say Shiva.

I find Ramuh the easiest to solo, mostly because I can land Slow on him, and occassionally Ice Spikes will proc, but not often. Shiva isn't too bad, she does swing fast but she tends to miss alot. The hard part in my experiences so far using /DRK is that even on Leviathan I can't land a stun. However, w/ capped enhancing and +37 from AF pants/AF2 gloves/torque you get +98 from barspells, and Crimson Greaves add another 20 to a few of the elements, I usually wear those when fighting avatars; generally their BPs won't do much, and Astral Flow will do < 100.

The hardest solo for me so far has been Garuda, every once in awhile you'll do a run where she just goes batshiat on Whispering Wind and draws the fight out to last an hour.

[Lunaryn]

There's a good strategy on the solo fights somewhere on ffxiclopedia. It can be advantageous to send Carby in to attack, and hang back while he softens up the avatar. Once he dies, if you're about midway down the course, you'll have time to resummon. Remember, Ethers, not Hi-Ethers; the latter take too long to use. Hi-Potions for healing, macro everything, don't panic. Most of the time the avatars don't hit that hard, so taking a few hits before Carby pulls off Searing Light isn't a huge deal.

If you can get someone to cast Shell (or Protect II/Shell II) before you go in, this helps too. (Light Spirit will do this as well, but the pact is hard to get). Having a second Yagudo Drink for emergency use may help.

I've only done one 60+ fight (Garuda as THF60) for RP purposes, so I can't comment on them, but with good prep and strategy, I was 1/1 on most solo battles.

Also, I'd recommend Lightsday generally, for stronger carby.

[Amele]

Titan is generally considered the easiest. Stone spells are the weakest element and Titan weak to wind (gravity, not sure if they can be silenced at all) So if sh*t hits the fan you can gravity and run for a moment's rest. Titan is the first one I defeated as Whm/Nin, and is rather easy (requires concentration and timing, but not much else)

personally I've found the hardest ones to solo as whm/nin to be the avatars with self healing pacts (leviathan, garuda) - spells whitemage mostly shrugs off (100+ barspell, ~25% magic damage reduction, and 31 m.def, all before gear, makes it easy going) and it's easy to keep some combination of shadows/stoneskin up.

ifrit, titan, and ramuh are all reasonably easy to solo, provided you use a good setup and buff your barspell rating over 100.

[Necropolis]

personally I've found the hardest ones to solo as whm/nin to be the avatars with self healing pacts (leviathan, garuda) - spells whitemage mostly shrugs off (100+ barspell, ~25% magic damage reduction, and 31 m.def, all before gear, makes it easy going) and it's easy to keep some combination of shadows/stoneskin up.

ifrit, titan, and ramuh are all reasonably easy to solo, provided you use a good setup and buff your barspell rating over 100.

Yes, I had made a reference to soloing the non-self healing avatars in a previous post. And I've soloed those 4 a number of times for fun and a little gil to while bored. I've yet to be killed by an astral flow since capping bar- spell merits and obtaining AF2 pants. Kinda fun to laugh at all the melees that say that whm can't DD ^^ (though not saying much as the avatars would check too weak at 75 >.>;;)

On a side note: Has anyone noticed that blessed briault doesn't increase the number figures on bar spells? I'm guessing it increases the random number that you'll resist if you resist, and don't know if you can macro it in or if it has to be worn full time and only effects the whm.

[hongman]

Get this for lolmelee

Got to Shiva to solo, and found a group there of 2 x75MNK, one /war and one /nin, 56WHM, 75BST.

They asked if I would liek to join so I accepted.

Got in, blah blah blah, Shiva 2Hred and down goes MNK/NIN and BST/WHM. MNK/WAR had about 200HP and died shortly after Hundred Fists.

It didnt even break my Stoneskin. So ended up soling the last 45% of Shiva anyway, although I did get a 1 Cure IV from the WHM.

lol!

[Callisto]

Get this for lolmelee

Got to Shiva to solo, and found a group there of 2 x75MNK, one /war and one /nin, 56WHM, 75BST.

They asked if I would liek to join so I accepted.

Got in, blah blah blah, Shiva 2Hred and down goes MNK/NIN and BST/WHM. MNK/WAR had about 200HP and died shortly after Hundred Fists.

It didnt even break my Stoneskin. So ended up soling the last 45% of Shiva anyway, although I did get a 1 Cure IV from the WHM.

lol!

Yeah, this is why I'm pretty picky about people standing back out of the fight when I help them with avatars. It never fails that when someone wants to come up and melee with me they get one-shotted by AF.

[Murphie]

I remember when I duo'd Garuda with Kirsteena, Garuda didn't even bother to AF. I felt gypped. :/

[Vildar]

I have recently just got titan through the level 20 cap fight. But i am with Chro in this, its getting annoying and a waste of money trying to defeat garuda and shiva. (don't have windy fame yet)

[Chro]

Yeah i'm a friend of Vildar's, we've been both trying these fights for a few weeks now and we both always end up losing terribly.

We follow countless guides on what to do at what time etc but it's all down to luck which is always against us :P

Except when he beat Titan, that was good luck of course.

[Amele]

On a side note: Has anyone noticed that blessed briault doesn't increase the number figures on bar spells? I'm guessing it increases the random number that you'll resist if you resist, and don't know if you can macro it in or if it has to be worn full time and only effects the whm.

it is: m.defense+5 to appropriate element. (this is ~4.8% damage down for most ranges, depending on mob level, presence of innate MAB trait, your MDB etc.)

the relevant part of the formula is the MAB/MDB term. baseline, this is 1.0/1.0

with MDB+5 this would be 1.0/1.05 -> 95.2% (obv. if the caster has a MAB of 20 this is 1.2/1.05 etc)

the barspell value (i.e. 86 base for a meritless/gearless whm75) is the 1/2 1/4 1/8 1/16 resist chance; MDB subtracts directly from the effect (similar to magic damage reduction, but applied at a slightly different term).

the bonus from blessed body works for party members and applies at time of barspell cast, not at time of resistance (so you can macro it in immediately before casting your barspell).

[Omniblast]

Do all Avatar Primes at full strength. Save your mini forks for travel. Well that's my suggestion. I don't like traveling to places that take forever to walk to so I just save my mini forks for traveling with my smn.

I've never won any mini fights, so I just leveled up another job, got all my avatars on my whm at 60ish except for Fenrir. I waited until I was a 75 whm before I got Fenrir.

3 smn can kill Fenrir with a little difficulty, 4 smn can kill him very easily, 5 well let's just say no contest.

Diabolos requires 4 blm, 1 rdm/drk, and you can leech. I had a very difficult time finding people willing to do this. They just hated Diabolos so much that they didn't want to bother with him. :(

Technically a 75 SMN can kill the primes solo. Sorry I never did that either, so I couldn't help you with that either. I know 2 SMN can easily duo a prime.

[Necropolis]

it is: m.defense+5 to appropriate element. (this is ~4.8% damage down for most ranges, depending on mob level, presence of innate MAB trait, your MDB etc.)

the relevant part of the formula is the MAB/MDB term. baseline, this is 1.0/1.0

with MDB+5 this would be 1.0/1.05 -> 95.2% (obv. if the caster has a MAB of 20 this is 1.2/1.05 etc)

the barspell value (i.e. 86 base for a meritless/gearless whm75) is the 1/2 1/4 1/8 1/16 resist chance; MDB subtracts directly from the effect (similar to magic damage reduction, but applied at a slightly different term).

the bonus from blessed body works for party members and applies at time of barspell cast, not at time of resistance (so you can macro it in immediately before casting your barspell).

Ok, suppose I should just go ahead and buy one now >.>;; Though thats one more inventory slot being eaten up, time to rework some macros. I already blink more than a christmas tree in most situations, suppose one more blink won't hurt anything.

To Omni: Having smn at 25 I'm not sure, but you do lose the fork if you do complete the mini-battle correct? That for me would be the major perk for a smn main that intends to do the battles fairly often. It's a nice short-cut to the cloisters for later use.

[Mhurron]

Well damn, now everyones making me look bad, I have to try it again.

[Murphie]

Well damn, now everyones making me look bad, I have to try it again.You should be ashamed of yourself.

Ashamed!

[fencingkitty]

If you still wanted to solo them at 20 instead of saving the mini-forks watch the videos that are linked off of the Summoner strategy guide "Summoner: Level 20 Avatar Battles by Andres" in the ffxiclopedia (smn category).

Watch them, re-watch them, break'em down. I watched these clips killing time and absorbed the strategy from them. Wound up going 1 for 1 on most of the avatars (shiva and ramuh were some of those) and a total of 4 losses over all. (ironically enough the most of those losses being to titan O.o)

Good luck!

[Mhurron]

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Ashamed!
/hangs head

[Lunaryn]

Found the specific strategy I alluded to earlier on the Discussion page for Trial-Size Trial by Earth (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Talk:Trial_Size_Trial_by_Earth). While I didn't take quite as many supplies as the posted strategy suggests, the basic framework is how I approached all the avatar battles. In particular, using the first carby summon for pure melee while you wait out of range means there's a decent chance you can avoid the 2-hour entirely (and in Ramuh's case, hopefully avoid getting paralyzed as well). You have plenty of time to resummon while the avatar moves toward you. Once Carby is out, Astral Flow and Searing Light (MAKE SURE REFRESH IS UP, my one loss to Titan was due to that error IIRC). Carby will take aggro, allowing you to get out of range and use a Hi-Potion (not necessarily in that order, use best judgement). Don't worry about wasting Hi-Potions too much, if you need the healing you need it, and they aren't that expensive. I brought 5 to most fights, only once needed all of them. Once Carby drops, resummon. You don't have to Assault again after the first time, resummoned Carby will attack the avatar automatically. Watch for Refesh wearing (possible after second Searing Light if you used the first Yagudo Drink right away) and use an Ether between bloodpacts to make sure you have 40MP when the BP timer comes back up. (Failing to have 40 MP when Searing Light goes off is another very common way to mess up. Again, be careful of Refresh wearing.) If you can pull off all 3 Searing Lights (not difficult if you pay attention and don't panic) you will almost certainly finish the avatar, especially on Lightsday. If not, pop the second Yagudo Drink if you haven't already, have Carby melee, and toss out a Banish spell when possible.