Gimp Sub vs Pimp Gear

[Evion]

Hey All,

I REALLY wanted to have a RDM that could melee in between Casting. Given, it's not the greatest idea. And, my WAR sub is a gimp. But, I have all the best equipment a lv 22 RDM can wear. Won't anyone take that into account for PTs? Let me know!

Thanks,

Evion

[Mhurron]

Hi, I don't feel like playing the game properly, but I spent a whole lot of gil on gear that gives tiny benefits, even smaller when you consider I don't want to do the one thing that could give bigger boosts. Will everyone just ignore that and invite me anyway?

Stop gimping your subs.

[Sevv]

You can ungimp your sub and melee hell i tanked on rdm to 40 lol.

[Murphie]

I will not take it into account for parties. I want a healer/enfeebler/nuker, not another melee job. Those are common as dirt already.

[hongman]

No.

Well, depends on the party BUT I wouldnt recommend subbing WAR, especially if it gimp.

RDM can melee in *most* parties up to 30ish I'd say and not have a dramtic effect on performance, just dont expect to keep your TP. Until further on you are not *that* busy, and can afford a few swings here and there.

But doing so with a mage sub, subbing WAR gives too little benefit over the pro's of /whm or /blm. I'd also check with your party first, some people are incredibly ignorant and will scorn you for meleeing.

[Mhurron]

I also can't think of any 'best' gear for RDM thats worth much at that level.

I meleed at lvl 22 with a fully leveled /blm sub. If you play the game to its fullest you can do a lot.

[Evion]

Hi, I don't feel like playing the game properly, but I spent a whole lot of gil on gear that gives tiny benefits, even smaller when you consider I don't want to do the one thing that could give bigger boosts. Will everyone just ignore that and invite me anyway?

LOL!

I will not take it into account for parties. I want a healer/enfeebler/nuker, not another melee job. Those are common as dirt already.

Thanks for the info.

No.

Well, depends on the party BUT I wouldnt recommend subbing WAR, especially if it gimp.

RDM can melee in *most* parties up to 30ish I'd say and not have a dramtic effect on performance, just dont expect to keep your TP. Until further on you are not *that* busy, and can afford a few swings here and there.

But doing so with a mage sub, subbing WAR gives too little benefit over the pro's of /whm or /blm. I'd also check with your party first, some people are incredibly ignorant and will scorn you for meleeing.

Well, I guess its back to lv1 beating on wurms/bees in Bastok to get up my BLK/WHM huh? You guys say it like its not a week of my life gone.... Thanks!

[Mhurron]

Well, I guess its back to lv1 beating on wurms/bees in Bastok to get up my BLK/WHM huh? You guys say it like its not a week of my life gone
It's called playing the game. If you look at it as a waste, don't play.

[Celeal]

At level 22, if you are not going to use Provoke, there isn't much reason to /WAR at that level. You can /WHM and melee just fine at level 22, virtually no different with /WAR at the same level.

[Murphie]

Seriously. Heck, I leveled WHM and BLM back in the day on my PLD, just so I'd have it for Warp and Teleports when I was doing things on my own. The subs are just handy to have around.

[hongman]

Yup, part and parcel of RDM-ness I'm glad to say.

RDM is so versitile, hence so many applicable subs. WHM, BLM are pretty much must, NIN if you plan to solo, DRK for endgame...

What goes with that is while lvling NIN, you will need to have WAR as a sub so that has to be leveld to at least 18. While doing WAR to 18, you'll need MNK to at least 9.

So to just get subs for 1 job you actually end up leveling like up to 6 other jobs.

Get used to it (and highkly recommend getting them done all at once so they are out the way). If it all sounds like too much work, RDM isnt for you :(

[Aksannyi]

Don't sub Warrior. Take it from someone who did just that for her first 25 levels of RDM. /slap <me> {Do you need it?}

That being said, you can sub WHM or BLM and melee for the first levels of your job. I meleed all the way until 51, when weapon swapping (staves) became necessary and there was no point in attempting to whack the mob between swaps. (Not to mention my staff skill was - and still is - horribly underleveled.)

Some people stop meleeing around the time they get Refresh, others sooner, and others, like me, when the elemental staves come into play. Obviously, if you're main healing don't melee. This seems like common sense but a lot of people don't realize why this is bad. Also, rest between fights, melee or not. Screw TP loss (yeah I know, Signet blah blah blah, it does wear), you need MP.

Don't level with a gimped sub though. Seriously. I had to melee as a 74 (going on 75) RDM on Greater Colibri one day, and the party leader said I could sub Warrior but I refused to bring a gimped sub. Using /blm wasn't as good for hitting the mob, but seriously, don't level with a gimped sub. Use it for soloing/farming/whatever, just not xping.

[hongman]

Yar, I went 75RDM/23WAR while soling WS points just so I could use some other WS's....

[Aksannyi]

Yeah, I've done that, I just wouldn't bring it to XP gimped. I should just finish leveling WAR for sub anyway at this point. It's at 26, what's 11 more levels?

[hongman]

Hehe, that was the first time I had used Vorpal Blade....600+ on a Spider in Desert. Tickled the melee side of me again....

Anyways, Ill stop derailing.

[Tekumel]

Yup, part and parcel of RDM-ness I'm glad to say.

RDM is so versitile, hence so many applicable subs. WHM, BLM are pretty much must, NIN if you plan to solo, DRK for endgame...

What goes with that is while lvling NIN, you will need to have WAR as a sub so that has to be leveld to at least 18. While doing WAR to 18, you'll need MNK to at least 9.

So to just get subs for 1 job you actually end up leveling like up to 6 other jobs.

Get used to it (and highkly recommend getting them done all at once so they are out the way). If it all sounds like too much work, RDM isnt for you :(

Eh...hell with MNK, just get WAR to 18 using /WHM & soloing EP-DC stuff in Konschtat. Easy XP, easy money (What in Konschtat DOESN'T have a money drop?), and a hell of a lot stressful than the Dooms (though it might take a bit longer, assuming you get parties in the Dunes that don't have their collective head up their ass).

[Vyuru]

RDM can melee in *most* parties up to 30ish I'd say and not have a dramtic effect on performance, just dont expect to keep your TP. Until further on you are not *that* busy, and can afford a few swings here and there.


Actually, you can keep your TP now while resting.

FYI, rdm/war isn't really a good idea in general. There has been some talk about rdm/war being able to tank, and I would be kinda interested in this with spikes, En~ spells, Blink, Stoneskin, and Phalanx, however 99% of all exp parties will want the tried and true tanks and, pardon my language, you will be nothing more than a refresh/haste whore for a vast majority of your rdm career.

Sad but true people stop inviting rdm for enfeebles once you get Refresh. At least that is what other people have told me and what I have heard from other party members.

As far as effectivness goes, I honestly would rather toss out a nuke or something in my free time as rdm. I feel that my parties are better served by either my resting for more mp in order to keep the exp chain going, or tossing out a nuke, or some other magely activity rather than meleeing.

Keep in mind, properly geared, there will be little difference between your nukes and a black mage's nukes up until you get Stone II, once you get the tier II spells the damage difference is much more noticable, not so much when you both magic burst the spells though.

I think I would say to stick with the whm and blm subs, and maybe consider summoner, I really don't think I would recommend the melee route.

Although, rdm/mnk solo is really fun and surprisingly effective with shield blocks, counter, and parries.

[hongman]

Actually, you can keep your TP now while resting.



Actually, I was referring to swaps for +INT/MND Wands....

[Kailea]

Actually, I was referring to swaps for +INT/MND Wands....


besides you ony keep TP while resting, if you have signet

[LyonheartLakshmi]

I really want to know what this level 22 "pimp" melee gear is. It's not like there's anything like Haubergeon at those low levels. There's Leaping Boots, but it's not like that +3 DEX is going to turn a subpar melee into a damage dealing machine (and it's not like we're talking about THF here either). Emperor Hairpin is level 24, but again, that's just another 3 DEX. Peacock Charm is level 33, and that's getting closer to what I might consider "pimp" melee gear.

How exactly do you pimp yourself out for melee at only level 22?

[IfritnoItazura]

How exactly do you pimp yourself out for melee at only level 22?

Auriga Xiphos! Lantern Shield! Spike Necklace! And, um... um... Vison Ring!

:biggrin:

[Mhurron]

Beetle +1

[Lunaryn]

Actually, you can keep your TP now while resting.
FYI, rdm/war isn't really a good idea in general. There has been some talk about rdm/war being able to tank, and I would be kinda interested in this with spikes, En~ spells, Blink, Stoneskin, and Phalanx, however 99% of all exp parties will want the tried and true tanks and, pardon my language, you will be nothing more than a refresh/haste whore for a vast majority of your rdm career.

Speaking generally, I'll note that lack of tanks prevents parties forming fairly often, and if I think someone can work as a tank and they're interested in doing so, I'd give it a try rather than just not party at all. The main difficulty is that it's usually like pulling teeth trying to get someone in any job other than NIN or PLD to tank regardless of ability (e.g. WARs, PUPs, BLUs below 30, SAMs).

I'm actually doing RDM/WAR myself in a small static (currently level 14) since we don't have another viable tank in the group. It's an interesting experience.

A mildly gimped sub (1-2 levels) looks bad but isn't usually that bad (unless you're missing a key ability due to it), but a sub that's many levels below half-main-level isn't going to provide particularly effective boosts at all.

Keep in mind that most people aren't going to see your gear or know your skill when they're initially considering you; they are going to see your main job/level, sub job/level, and your location; if they're paying particular attention they might notice your rank/nationality, race, and whether you have a search comment (though if they bother to read the comment, and many won't, it won't be until after they've already decided they're somewhat interested in inviting you). A gimped sub represents a red flag that suggests a player may not be up to par, and various people will interpret it differently. If you're the only RDM seeking and the party needs an RDM, most aren't going to wait long for a 'better' one to pop up, but if there are 3-4 and you're the only RDM/WAR or the only RDM22/WHM1, you're likely to be ignored (unless the party has pretty unusual needs in the RDM/WAR case).

[Vandros]

I have actually done a little bit of low lvl rdm/war tanking, was in Quifim, worked pretty well. Use a size 2 (round) shield if you do it though, and pretend you're a pld with more mp. I doubt it'd work very well past 37 or so, that's usually when Pld and Nin come in to their own.

to the OP, if you really really like melee rdm that swings between casts, and can sub war, may I suggest trying Blu when you hit 30?

[Dux]

.......you will be nothing more than a refresh/haste whore for a vast majority of your rdm career.

I'm not sure why people feel that two of RDMs most usefull spells are such a burden. Without Haste and Refresh RDM would be a far less attractive mage to have in your party.

Sad but true people stop inviting rdm for enfeebles once you get Refresh. At least that is what other people have told me and what I have heard from other party members.

Stay away from people like that, they will be the death of you.

[IfritnoItazura]

I'm not sure why people feel that two of RDMs most usefull spells are such a burden. Without Haste and Refresh RDM would be a far less attractive mage to have in your party.

/bow

Respect and Understanding! Much appreciate that!

You can call your own RDM a "***** whore" if you must, but mine is a treasured job. And, I gladly serve up Refresh, Haste, enfeebs, and more, with no resentment in my words or heart. :)

[Mhurron]

I'm not sure why people feel that two of RDMs most usefull spells are such a burden. Without Haste and Refresh RDM would be a far less attractive mage to have in your party.
The spells aren't the burden, it's the mindset of the players that RDM has nothing but those 2 spells and should do nothing but sit there and cast them. That is what people are complaining about.

[Aksannyi]

If there's a WHM who's willing, he's doing the Hasting. In a good blink party the WHM isn't doing much else anyway. I'm Refreshing and Enfeebling. I don't mind Haste if I have to - or if there's no other mage - but I kind of like it when the WHM does it.

When I'm WHM, however, I hate Haste. I just hate worrying about Haste. I have yet to figure out the cycle the way I have with Refresh. I'll learn it eventually, though.

[Mhurron]

When I'm WHM, however, I hate Haste. I just hate worrying about Haste. I have yet to figure out the cycle the way I have with Refresh. I'll learn it eventually, though.
You, the tank, 2h weapon users, 1h weapon users.

That seems to work.

[Aksannyi]

I've never considered Haste for myself to be necessary. Is it, really?

[Mhurron]

No, but you know exactly when it wears off. Same reason why you Refresh yourself first. You only keep track of one thing that way.

[Murphie]

You see when it wears off of the first person you cast it on anyway, so you don't have to haste yourself to keep track of the cycle. But if you want to, you certainly can.

[Mhurron]

You see it if you didn't happen to miss it. You can much easier see a little icon disappearing then watch for one line that might fly by depending on what else happens at that instance.

You could do the same with refresh, cast on someone else first, but I think you'll find almost everyone agrees it's easier when you are the beginning of the cycle.

[Murphie]

It's only easier for me in the sense that I know I always get Refresh. But otherwise it's not a big issue. I filter my chat enough (and color it) that I always see when it wears.

That said, whatever method you use to make sure that you keep your cycle going is cool. Everyone does it a little differently.