Sky, Einherjar, and Abj. (ranting)

[Eauijhkuu]

Salutations Banditos and Banditas.

It's been quite some time since Eauijhkuu actually posted something on the forums. Trust me - alot has transpired since my last few posts; I took a slight break from FFXI, and when I did come back to it, I jumped into a multiplicity of endgame events that I find to be monotonously redundant.

Moreso have I plunged my soul into the depths of endgame hades, which involves the countless running around Tu'lia's region to find items that pop certain monsters that drop certain items that can be turned into godly gear, only to get that gear to go farm more pop items to fight more gods.

A gay concept that we call sky.
And perhaps it would be otherwise if I had actually chose to play as WAR or NIN or MNK over THF.

Because as it seems to stand currently, THF is getting absolutely no love..

There is nothing for me to look foward to in Sky as THF, other than the opportunity to put my own wits to the very test, as people rub my belly, cross their fingers, fall to their knees and begin chanting prayers that their abjurations will drop. And while people claim "Yeah, Neptunal is godly for your kind," They know not the fool that speaks from their mouths. The only good use that any THF would actually have with Hecatomb gear would be if that THF were wielding a Mandau, which makes the set a limited efficiency only to a handful of us that actually spent 200m+ to get a relic weapon.

Just with the recent update, you will see the new sets of abj gear that's been put out as of late. With the total abj sets, we see that WAR has 4 sets, PLD, DRG, DRK, and most of the mage classes have 2 sets. THF COR and BLU and BST have one. PUP has absolutely none.

Nothing much to look foward to for us in Einherjar as of yet.
Unless for some strange and unknown reason, you guys want to go and try to attempt to grab Neptunal.

Does anyone feel the same way? I bet there are tons of you who feel exactly opposite. Responses of anykind are most welcome.

[Zempten]

Um. . . . I don't think your holding the right thought.

Neptune isn't just for Mercy Stroke in my opinion. I couldn't name a better piece for your hands and feet. Other then that though there isn't much in Sky for THF as the other 2 abjurations ( head and legs ) come from Fafnir and Nidhogg. However with the introduction of Einherjar I don't think we will be in Sky or at those two NMs much anymore.

P.S: I think the Hectatomb Harness is for Mercy Stroke. Otherwise I'd prefer Dragon Harness for my WS, dancing edge.

[Kirsteena]

Welcome to sky - a place I hate with heart and soul!

Which ls did you end up in?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I'm sure SE has more new abjurations on the way. They just hope that everyone has it within thier heart to put the same effort into one section of a game as another, which is very flawed reasoning sometimes.

If each endgame activity had something appealing to every job, we'd be much better off. But just try to get mages to stay in sky for more than one god fight and just try to get RNG/COR/THF to get jazzed about camping ground. Now there's a new deathtrap I can lose EXP in.

If Wyrmal legs prove to have a good drop rate, SE has my love. I've watch my LS get 3 of them from Kirin and I should be next in line.

I'll MPK anyone that tries to catch up to my points >.>

[LilithAngel]

Two abjurations for Dragoon? Try .5 instead.

Crimson doesn't do a Dragoon any good. At all. Period. We can't tank, don't kite, nor use any of the buffs the set gives in any meaningful way that we can't find in other gear that has better used bonuses as well. Complete. Crap.

Oh wait, we can run 12% faster. Whoop. Eee.

Hecajunk set is a pretty foul concept IMO. Stacking all that lovely STR, DEX, and Accuracy together with all that Slow%, making what would be a rather decent set (by today's standards, but 'godly' back then, I suppose >.>) Weapon Skill-only gear is a waste as far as I see. I've refused to spend a single gil on any of this junk, and will never change that stance. Too much other gear has come along in the meantime that doesn't have as heavy penalties yet still manages to give comparable bonuses that Hecajunk is now just that. Junk.

THFs are no worse in Sky than DRG are; we just get slapped in the face harder because we have twice the useless crap you get. :wtf:

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Crim isn't entirely bad for DRG/Mage, I'd say, but then, why would you want gear that makes you intimidate yourself?

[Sevv]

Crim isn't entirely bad for DRG/Mage, I'd say, but then, why would you want gear that makes you intimidate yourself?


You cant intimidate yourself, and if you say there is nothing in endgame for thf then you know what you do.... Don't do endgame. Heca being shit or thf and drg???? That is why the heca drg and thf will out damage you it works good macro gear for ws improves the ws with improves you effectiveness.

[Amele]

Moreso have I plunged my soul into the depths of endgame hades, which involves the countless running around Tu'lia's region to find items that pop certain monsters that drop certain items that can be turned into godly gear, only to get that gear to go farm more pop items to fight more gods.
A gay concept that we call sky.

welcome to your first taste of endgame content :) feel glad that your dragon harness sells on the AH (your jse ingredient drops often enough from hnm's that it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg and/or never sell) this will make it alot easier to avoid doing ground for awhile (although there's some good stuff for thief in ground, especially if you get a shell that does more than just 3kings.)


Because as it seems to stand currently, THF is getting absolutely no love..
There is nothing for me to look foward to in Sky as THF, other than the opportunity to put my own wits to the very test, as people rub my belly, cross their fingers, fall to their knees and begin chanting prayers that their abjurations will drop. And while people claim "Yeah, Neptunal is godly for your kind," They know not the fool that speaks from their mouths. The only good use that any THF would actually have with Hecatomb gear would be if that THF were wielding a Mandau, which makes the set a limited efficiency only to a handful of us that actually spent 200m+ to get a relic weapon.

as others said, I can't think of anything better for thief in the hand or feet slots. +slow% is definitely not the end of the world. and almost the whole set is good for ws macros.


Just with the recent update, you will see the new sets of abj gear that's been put out as of late. With the total abj sets, we see that WAR has 4 sets, PLD, DRG, DRK, and most of the mage classes have 2 sets. THF COR and BLU and BST have one. PUP has absolutely none.

war will use one of those sets (earthen) and maybe one piece of heca macro'd (probably the hands, I can't remember offhand how good unicorn hands are). I could see an argument for a piece or two of phantasmal but I seriously doubt any war is going to trade in their earthen gear for it.

Nothing much to look foward to for us in Einherjar as of yet.
Unless for some strange and unknown reason, you guys want to go and try to attempt to grab Neptunal.
Does anyone feel the same way? I bet there are tons of you who feel exactly opposite. Responses of anykind are most welcome.

kubira bead necklace, buccaneers belt, iota ring, delta earring. money drops.

there's more to einherjar than abjurations.

[Sevv]

As thf: Homam for tp and Heca for ws
As drg: Homam for tp and Heca for ws

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

You cant intimidate yourself.

Well you don't intimidate me :P

[Akashimo]

I honestly don't see why most of the abj are even worth going after honestly. Only ones that stick in my mind are koegin hands, head, heca as mentioned, zenith legs and body, and crimson legs.
Sea, I haven't gotten far in limbus to come close to tasting the gear there.
Three kings and ect, those ls are too much drama to be worth going after, espically the big and most known shells.
And from what I gathered by word of mouth on how Einherjar works, I'm gonna hold off on that for a little while.

Endgame is broken beyond ducktape >_>

[Sevv]

I honestly don't see why most of the abj are even worth going after honestly. Only ones that stick in my mind are koegin hands, head, heca as mentioned, zenith legs and body, and crimson legs.
Sea, I haven't gotten far in limbus to come close to tasting the gear there.
Three kings and ect, those ls are too much drama to be worth going after, espically the big and most known shells.
And from what I gathered by word of mouth on how Einherjar works, I'm gonna hold off on that for a little while.
Endgame is broken beyond ducktape >_>

ok on the heca statement i guess 400+ more damage a ws isn't worth gear.

And lol at bbq

[Akashimo]

Its not worth head aches over for jobs that naturally have low invite rate and that sams can already out do you instantly with /thf >_>;

[Sevv]

Its not worth head aches over for jobs that naturally have low invite rate and that sams can already out do you instantly with /thf >_>;


I enjoy endgame so it wasn't as much as a pain for me. I went over a year and a half doing 2-3 sky runs a week before I ever got a drop, to lol I enjoyed the fights and helping friends out. End game can be a pain in the ass, their is no doubt about that. On the other hand you also cant say Heca doesn't help any thief.

[Akashimo]

There's never any thieves around that uses it honestly. Only one I know is from my lowbie static/ social ls/dynamis ls that has some heca pieces doesn't notice a difference with it for ws dmg than using the cheap route for ws gear.
Getting heca isn't even near the top of my gear to get priorities.

[Amele]

interesting, my ls thiefs *love* heca for weaponskill.. especially as they start to stack haste gear and don't always get the opportunity to double stack SATA during ws (str being the primary modifier for all physical ws).

I honestly don't see why most of the abj are even worth going after honestly. Only ones that stick in my mind are koegin hands, head, heca as mentioned, zenith legs and body, and crimson legs.
Sea, I haven't gotten far in limbus to come close to tasting the gear there.
Three kings and ect, those ls are too much drama to be worth going after, espically the big and most known shells.
And from what I gathered by word of mouth on how Einherjar works, I'm gonna hold off on that for a little while.

Endgame is broken beyond ducktape >_>

k.hands I'd take off that list (homam are better). I'd add z.hands (huge for blm), and put a little start next to z.head and z.feet (always on latents are cool). I'd consider taking z.body off the list, it's a toy piece for most of the jobs that can wear it (rdm and brd the only ones who *really* get anything out of it) and you missed most of the earthen and shura sets (quite alot of both are good).

overall there's probably two or three pieces from every set that are worth owning if you're a job that can use them.

sea and limbus have some amazing pieces floating around (between the sea tiers and proto's and the accessories and AF+1) it's really a very good set of endgame activities (the brokenness of AV notwithstanding) some of the quested gear related to sea is the best for its slots as well. (gorgets/obis)

ground isn't broken, so much as the spawns weren't designed to be camped 24/7 365 for 4 years - SE just needs to obsolete some of the content (like they've done with serket/roc/simurgh/etc) so that you start seeing 20-40 in aery instead of 120-240. as for drama, well. welcome to the internet? you'll get drama too in all the other activities (including sky) you just hear about it more because ground hnms are the rockstars of vana'diel.

dynamis is a huge hit except for the ~2% drop rates on stuff. einherjar will be too - people just haven't had much opportunity to figure it out yet, since we've collectively had 1 crack at it so far. (I remember how some of the early dynamis runs went, back in the day.)

salvage.. needed duct tape yeah. I haven't had a chance to try it again recently but I imagine it's at least a little improved now.

overall, I think endgame in XI is decent, has good variability in style of content, difficulty, and effective team sizes, and is reasonably balanced in terms of reward/difficulty. If you don't see any pieces you like for your jobs, and don't personally enjoy just running the content (I love cop wyrms for instance, even though there's only one piece I'd ever want from them and don't have a use for any of the crafted materials) then.. don't do the content. find another shell that does something you do enjoy, or join a large hnm and attend the other events.

[Sevv]

I think the pieces he listed are the ones not going after.

[Amele]

I don't see how koenig head is on his list of 'skippable' pieces then, or how shura hands didn't make it... I'm pretty sure it was a list of what is 'worth it' and not what isn't.

in fact, w.legs could ever be on the 'good' list. really.

[Kaickul]

Hecatomb gear has been a bad joke since the day it was implemented. Over 20% slow for stats that wouldnt do a whole lot for melee, but we use it for WS because our other option which is JSE is even worse (aside from the body). (Dont even mention AFv2.) It has alway irked me that MNK, NIN, RNG, SAM etc get over 40+ in stat boosts with no negative penalties but THFs get smacked with +slow or -Movement speed for any gear worth using in melee.

Homam gear is the best option for melee and Skadi gear is the only gear that actually has the stats needed for THF WS, but some pieces of Heca are still beter.

[Legal Fish]

BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW ;;

No, really, why are you playing for gear anyway? Is your LS only a source of equipment for you? You don't feel an acclopisement for helping them out? Then leave your LS, as you'd qualify as a "lootwhore", a starved one at that.

Go do the "The Ashu Talif" quests and Limbus if you want some good gear for THF.

[Sevv]

On the +slow of heca, it is sad to see so many thieves on ifrit melee in 1-2 pieces of heca and drgs melee in the full set.

And for haste/melee gear and you don't have sea you can always get:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/images/d/d5/Barbarossas_zerehs.jpg

[Akashimo]

I think the pieces he listed are the ones not going after.
Those are the pieces I'd go after if I 1) got the adj, 2) had the job to use them effectively, 3) had the cursed piece. But going between end game drama(which has gotten worse since I gotten sky about year and half+ ago), my constant lack of gil cause nothing is worth farming any more(less than 1k combined from all my chars and mules), I just don't see a point in endgame content anymore for anything new until the old gets improved/fixed.

[Legal Fish]

But going between end game drama(which has gotten worse since I gotten sky about year and half+ ago), my constant lack of gil cause nothing is worth farming any more(less than 1k combined from all my chars and mules), I just don't see a point in endgame content anymore for anything new until the old gets improved/fixed.

1. Get a better linkshell. If drama in sky is your problem, then your linkshell is likely a shitty one, no offense.

2. How is that me, a BLM who spends maybe 1% of his time farming, can be richer than a level 75 THF. There are things worth farming, you just don't know where to look.

(To the point: It's not the end-game that needs a fixing'...)

[Sevv]

Those are the pieces I'd go after if I 1) got the adj, 2) had the job to use them effectively, 3) had the cursed piece. But going between end game drama(which has gotten worse since I gotten sky about year and half+ ago), my constant lack of gil cause nothing is worth farming any more(less than 1k combined from all my chars and mules), I just don't see a point in endgame content anymore for anything new until the old gets improved/fixed.

End Game content in it self is fine, nothing is really broken with the game it self. The only broken part of end game is people backstabbing, drama whoring, loot whoring.

Only ones that stick in my mind are koegin hands, head, heca as mentioned, zenith legs and body, and crimson legs.


Koeging Hands fail in comparison to alot of existing gear in game for plds. The only positive of this piece is it rots alot =/

Koeging Head again fails to alot of existing gear in game.

Heca is worth it for ws, due to high str and dex, I have one piece and im over 110 str and dex on ws lol.

Zenith Mitts are very useful.

C legs great for plds on kiteing.

Aberk, N legs/head, Adaman Head, Shura Togi/Haidate alot of the abj are useful.

[Eauijhkuu]

Um. . . . I don't think your holding the right thought.

Neptune isn't just for Mercy Stroke in my opinion. I couldn't name a better piece for your hands and feet. Other then that though there isn't much in Sky for THF as the other 2 abjurations ( head and legs ) come from Fafnir and Nidhogg. However with the introduction of Einherjar I don't think we will be in Sky or at those two NMs much anymore.

P.S: I think the Hectatomb Harness is for Mercy Stroke. Otherwise I'd prefer Dragon Harness for my WS, dancing edge.

Go look at the STR mod on mercy stroke, and then tell me what you think SE was trying to do.


But answer me this, my fellow bandits:

Why, in god's creation would you TP in near 50% slow gear? Just so you can hit higher numbers concerning STR vs VIT? There's only so much that it can do for our WS or SA in the long run.

And I'm probably the only thief alive that doesn't use a Dragon Harness, or much of the dragon gear to begin with.
I didn't see +4 AGI help much with trick attack damage, nor the range in which the damage was to increase.
Instead, I think I'll forever stick with (Until I can actually get my hands on something better), the Pahluwan Khazagand, Heartsnatcher, and the Assassin's poulaines...

And because assassin's charge is pretty much near the same effect as me wearing AF2 boots, with fully meritted Triple attack...I will probably never sub anything for Assassin's Poulaines. Ever.

[Kaickul]

Go look at the STR mod on mercy stroke, and then tell me what you think SE was trying to do.

Not nearly enough people will ever see a relic dagger for them to justify that, because if thats what they had in mind... they need to seriously increase the dynamis currency drop rates.


Why, in god's creation would you TP in near 50% slow gear? Just so you can hit higher numbers concerning STR vs VIT? There's only so much that it can do for our WS or SA in the long run.


Regardless of the slow, why would you want to melee in STR and DEX gear? Haste and ACC is the way to go on melee THF.

[Sevv]

haste for any d/w job really lol

[Amele]

Koeging Head again fails to alot of existing gear in game.


in what strange bizarre world do you live in where hp and shield skill is a fail piece of gear for an endgame pld?


Go look at the STR mod on mercy stroke, and then tell me what you think SE was trying to do.

go take a look at how your modified weapon damage and fstr are calculated for all weaponskills, and then tell me what you think SE was trying to do.

Hecatomb was introduced almost a year before dynamis was.

[Sevv]

in what strange bizarre world do you live in where hp and shield skill is a fail piece of gear for an endgame pld?



Blood tanking is dead lol

but just a few better pieces

first the

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/images/a/a0/Koenigschaller.jpg


then

favorite of most end game plds:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/images/c/c5/Aegishjalmr.jpg


for those who have cop:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/images/a/ac/Bahamut%27s_mask.png

Some can argue for /nin they would use:
Askar Zucchetto RareExclusive
(Head) All Races
DEF: 23 STR +4 DEX +4 VIT +4 Haste +4%
Set: Max HP Boost
Lv. 75 WAR / PLD / DRK / BST / SAM / DRG

Or the new peice: (which is made of win)
Valhalla Helm RareExclusive
[Head] All Races
DEF: 40 HP +30
VIT +4 Damage Taken -5%
Slow +5%
Lv. 75 WAR, PLD, DRK



Koeging Head again fails to alot of existing gear in game.

Really meant to say there was better pieces of gear in the game then fails lol but w/e

[Amele]

I must've missed the hidden job trait on pld/nin that reads "Cannot Equip Shields" (or that hp mattered only for blood tanking, it's really just def and vit that are pointless)

a good pld set (even when /nin) should roll out with 300+ shield skill for a serious hnm.

yeah, aegishjalmr has +7enmity, the rest of the stats are crap and paladin can survive having +23 instead of +30 enmity, etc. (or even +14 vs +21) situationally I'd say the 'jalmr is a good piece, but I'd expect said paladin to still have ~300 shield skill without his m.head before I'd stop sending him nasty /tells. :p

bahamut's mask (while awesome) is similarly blank if you're not fighting tiamat or faffhog. (loljorm etc.)


askar head is a straight macro piece for utsu cast and even then loses to the wal-mart turban.

I could see valhalla helm taking over as the 'new' pld head for non-aegis paladins though. (granted it's so new that no one has one yet, given that no one could have amassed enough ichor to purchase one of the core ingredients even if someone did somehow get the abjuration.)

basically, I'll agree that m.head isn't the end all be all of pld headwear; but it's definitely a piece that any serious paladin should pick up. (which makes it significantly better than m.hands and m.feet.) and, unlike m.body is a piece that continues to have utility even after getting the rest of the good gear for that slot.

[Karinya]

Oh yeah, I had forgotten that every pld in the game had beaten the *second* Bahamut fight (the one where he has four pets... don't worry, they're not dangerous or anything), and that a free faf claim (and guaranteed drop, of course) came with level 75. Clearly, there's no point to m.head when everyone has those other two items.

There's a large difference between "there exists, somewhere, something better" and "useless". People who are trying to actually get and use gear, rather than comparing stats on some website somewhere, already know that.

[Amele]

to be fair, most established ls's are rotting the 'jalmr now so it's not a hard piece to get compared to say, e.body, a.body, ace's helm, etc.

and fafnir claims *do* happen, and sometimes you can work out a deal with the other ls for 'jalmr or the a.feet or whatever other ex that isn't a ridill you might need personally if they were gonna rot it.

all that said, I'd rather have a paladin in m.head and wearing his enmity on his body and accessories than a paladin using 'jalmr to get his enmity any day. (presupposes that the fight doesn't require 25+ enmity to tank successfully)

[Sevv]

Oh yeah, I had forgotten that every pld in the game had beaten the *second* Bahamut fight (the one where he has four pets... don't worry, they're not dangerous or anything), and that a free faf claim (and guaranteed drop, of course) came with level 75. Clearly, there's no point to m.head when everyone has those other two items.
There's a large difference between "there exists, somewhere, something better" and "useless". People who are trying to actually get and use gear, rather than comparing stats on some website somewhere, already know that.



Really meant to say there was better pieces of gear in the game then fails lol but w/e

I said I messed up, and about the bahamut v2 fight HI2u RMTS beating the fight, which means there is a good chance if you beat cop and have a ls being a "serious" pld, you should beat this fight. And most pld who don't have them don't do these fights, so I can say M. Head is the best piece because all those sky only pld are too lazy to better them selves then expand into other areas put in some work for gear. And to those pld w/o M. Head come to ifrit they rot all the time.

[Armando]

ok on the heca statement i guess 400+ more damage a ws isn't worth gear.400+ more damage per WS is a really big number. I think that's a bit of an exaggeration.

[Sevv]

400+ more damage per WS is a really big number. I think that's a bit of an exaggeration.


think of just sky heca gear

+25 str
+7 dex
+10 acc

The Increase number will vary from person to person depending on their own gear sets. For Some a 400 increase would be an exaggeration for others it will be very close. Heca gear was a HUGE increase for my drg, it has been huge increases for many thieves I know.

[Amele]

36 strength and 12 dex in four slots is a really big bonus. especially for thief.

[Eauijhkuu]

It would be much more efficient if those figures were switched.

Minus the ungodly ever accursed slow% stat that lurks inside your body like the dull acidic second-hand cigarette smog that munches slowly on the membrane inside your lungs.; It's not healthy for you.

Because it will take near 5 points of STR for your ATT to go up +1. (Exaggeration)
And unless you're actually using that STR to counteract a mob's VIT. Or unless you have a Mandau, You really have no need for it (Repeated yet again)

[Amele]

It would be much more efficient if those figures were switched.

I disagree, strength applies to every single swing, (both to fstr(2) and pdif) dex (besides crits) is strictly inferior to accuracy except during SA, which is once every 50seconds to 1 minute. - of course, if you're wearing this only for weaponskill, it means you're using the strength approximately twice as often (every weaponskill, compared to the dex every other)

Minus the ungodly ever accursed slow% stat that lurks inside your body like the dull acidic second-hand cigarette smog that munches slowly on the membrane inside your lungs.; It's not healthy for you.

yeah, so macro for ws where slow % *won't matter*

Because it will take near 5 points of STR for your ATT to go up +1. (Exaggeration)

4-5 points of strength raises your weapon damage by an effective '1' (that is, if you have a 28 damage weapon and 100 strength, it will swing like a ~38 damage weapon with 60 strength) and every 2 points increases your attack by 1 (so if mob defense is 300 and you have 100 strength, you improve your pdif by approximately .13 [this seems like a small gain - this is comparable to eating a mithkabob] over having 0 strength.) in the more accurate comparison of say, 100 to 60, you are gaining 20 points in attack, the equivalent of wearing a 'free' pair of okotes, besides other benefits to the strength gear.

And unless you're actually using that STR to counteract a mob's VIT. Or unless you have a Mandau, You really have no need for it (Repeated yet again)

because, you know. strength isn't the primary modifier for every melee and ranged attack and (physical) weaponskill ever. or anything.

this is like saying you don't need int unless you're casting ancient magic II.

[Akashimo]

because, you know. strength isn't the primary modifier for every melee and ranged attack and (physical) weaponskill ever. or anything.
this is like saying you don't need int unless you're casting ancient magic II.
QFT!
Anyone who believes STR is greated than the ws's primary modifiers needs to get slapped upside the head >_>;
With the three main dagger ws for thf(unless you got the relic) Dex is the primary take all modifier. Though its shared with chr for dancing edge(does make a difference!). Add more dex or through some AGI for SA/TA damage boosts on that too for thf main only. On multi hits dex, not str, dex modifies the attack for the first swing(unless dual weilding then first two).
Hand-two-hand, in the early levels are str/dex based(Combo, One Inch Punch, Raging Fists). Then it switches to str/vit(Howling Fist, Dragon Kick, Asuran Fists). For any two piece modifier, always balance try to get a max for both.

[Amele]

QFT!
Anyone who believes STR is greated than the ws's primary modifiers needs to get slapped upside the head >_>;
With the three main dagger ws for thf(unless you got the relic) Dex is the primary take all modifier. Though its shared with chr for dancing edge(does make a difference!). Add more dex or through some AGI for SA/TA damage boosts on that too for thf main only. On multi hits dex, not str, dex modifies the attack for the first swing(unless dual weilding then first two).
Hand-two-hand, in the early levels are str/dex based(Combo, One Inch Punch, Raging Fists). Then it switches to str/vit(Howling Fist, Dragon Kick, Asuran Fists). For any two piece modifier, always balance try to get a max for both.

sorry about that, I was being sarcastic.

str *is* the primary modifier. the stat% values are called 'secondary' modifiers for a reason.

a physical weaponskill is basically: damage = ( W + FSTR(2) + WSC ) * PDIF (dropped the fTP term, since it's not applicable to which stat is best to stack).

where W = weapon damage, FSTR(2) is a function of a function comparing your str to their vit (approximately 4 strength increases this by 1) and WSC is the secondary modifiers at the appropriate percentages.

PDIF is a randomized function with an average and mode calculated around the value of Attack / Defense - lvlcorrection factor, and ranges from about 0.4 to 2.5 for non-crits.

assuming that you aren't sacrificing accuracy to stack stats (dex gives you some accuracy back) and that you aren't stacking SA or TA with thief main (at which point dex and agi add to W + FSTR(2) + WSC at a 100% rate):

this is like saying that -every- weaponskill has a 25% strength WSC mod (due to the way FSTR(2) works) in addition. PDIF can be split to show the effect of additional strength, to: attack / defense + str / (defense * 2) - lvlcorrection. meaning that on a mob with defense of 250 you gain approximately 0.01 pdif for every 5 points of strength you add.

the dex or vit or mind or int mod applies only as a percentage to one term, and if isn't at least 25%, it is *strictly worse* to add that stat over an equal amount of strength in the slot. even if it is more like 30% (most are 16,25, or 30) it is still better to stack strength until you approach the pdif and fstr(2) caps.


(statements made assuming that you are not approaching the fstr(2) or pdif caps).

[Lmnop]

Yes. Homam, Heca, Skadi. All good THF gear.

Yes. End game for THF still sucks. You're still only there for other people's loot.

Honestly. Imagine you didn't have TH in the game for a second. Do you really think any of your end game LSs would bring you to anything?

[Sevv]

Imagine you didn't have TH in the game for a second. Do you really think any of your end game LSs would bring you to anything?


I lold

[Amele]

Yes. Homam, Heca, Skadi. All good THF gear.
Yes. End game for THF still sucks. You're still only there for other people's loot.
Honestly. Imagine you didn't have TH in the game for a second. Do you really think any of your end game LSs would bring you to anything?

if your ls's never use Thief for things beyond TH whores, you're in the wrong lses.

that's like only ever using whitemages for raises or monks for chi blast.

[Lmnop]

or letting DRGs DD in exp. Yeah, crazy, huh?

[Eauijhkuu]

because, you know. strength isn't the primary modifier for every melee and ranged attack and (physical) weaponskill ever. or anything.

this is like saying you don't need int unless you're casting ancient magic II.

I thank the designers of SE everyday for the +5 intelligence they give my Rogue's Bonnet.

I should consider wearing erimites to make full certain that all of my enfeeble bolts stick...

...And worry later about how they have to land firstly in order to even have a chance of proc. :rolleyes:

[Sevv]

correct me if i am wrong but doesn't int help in pick checks?

and if it does then whoosh on the joke about the +5 int

[Amele]

not sure if it's ever been proven to affect pick checks: int does figure into magic damage resistance (see: "Calculating Magic Damage" on the wiki if you're interested in more).

although my original point was that just because it's not the final nuke doesn't mean that int doesn't help other blackmagic.