Drg/Pup----- Is it possible?

[DTHURST]

Hello all. This is only a conception as of yet because i cant try these ideas out yet. When i get my pup lvs up i'll be able to test it out a little more. Please add any info/opinions you may have. I would appreciate any help you could give with this project.


DRG/PUP A Guide By Destyne

Job Traits
10 Attack Bonus-- +10 attack
20 Resist Slow
25 Martial Arts
25 Dragon Killer
30 Accuracy Bonus-- +10 accuracy
40 Evasion Bonus-- +10 Evasion
75 Empathy--Merited
75 Strafe--Merited

Job Abilities
1 Spirit Surge
* Adds your wyvern's strength to your own.
* Obtained: Dragoon Level 1
* Recast Time: 2:00:00
* Duration: 1:00


[edit] Notes/Description

* Spirit Surge is a Dragoon's 2 hour special ability.
* A Dragoon must have a Wyvern out in order to use Spirit Surge.
* The Dragoon's Wyvern is absorbed upon use of Spirit Surge.

* While this ability is in effect, Jump, High Jump, and Super Jump gain additional effects:
o Jump temporarily weakens an enemy’s defense.
o High Jump causes an enemy’s TP to be reduced by a percentage proportionate to the amount of damage inflicted.
o Super Jump causes the closest party member behind the dragoon (from the point of view of the monster) to have his or her enmity reduced by half.
* The Dragoon's maximum HP is increased by roughly 15% and is healed by the Wyvern's current HP.
* The Dragoon gains a large STR boost. (= 1 + level / 5)
* The Wyvern's attack speed is deducted from the Dragoon's granting him increased attack speed.
* The Wyvern's per-hit damage is added onto the Dragoon's individual attacks.
* The Wyvern's current TP is added to the Dragoon's and with proper timing a self-skillchain may be performed.
* The recast time for the Jump, High Jump, and Super Jump job abilities will be reset when using Spirit Surge.

1 Call Wyvern
* Summons a Wyvern to fight by your side.
* Obtained: Dragoon Level 1
* Recast Time: 0:20:00
* Duration: Instant
* Special: Only available if Dragoon is your main class.

1 Activate
* Calls forth your automaton.
* Obtained: Puppetmaster Level 1
* Recast Time: 0:20:00
* Duration: Instant

1 Deploy
* Orders your automaton to attack.
* Obtained: Puppetmaster Level 1
* Recast Time: N/A
* Duration: Instant

1 Deactivate
* Deactivates your automaton.
* Obtained: Puppetmaster Level 1
* Recast Time: 1:00
* Duration: Instant

1 Elemental Maneuvers-- must have animator equipped

5 Ancient Circle
* Increases party members' resistance against Dragons.
* Obtained: Dragoon Level 5
* Recast Time: 10:00
* Duration: 00:30

10 Jump
* Performs a jumping attack on the enemy.
* Obtained: Dragoon Level 10
* Recast Time: 1:30
* Duration: Instant

20 Retrieve
* Orders your automaton to return to your side.
* Obtained: Puppetmaster Level 10
* Recast Time: N/A
* Duration: Instant

25 Spirit Link
* Sacrifices own HP to heal Wyvern's HP.
* Obtained: Dragoon Level 25
* Recast Time: 3:00
* Duration: Instant

35 High Jump
* Performs a high jumping attack on enemy.
* Obtained: Dragoon Level 35
* Recast Time: 3:00
* Duration: Instant

50 Super Jump
* Performs a super jump.
* Obtained: Dragoon Level 50
* Recast Time: 3:00
* Duration: Instant

75 Deep Breathing -- Merited
* Enhances the effect of next breath used by wyvern.
* Obtained: Dragoon Level 75
* Recast Time: 15 Minutes
* Duration: 3:00 or until the next breath is executed

75 Angon -- Merited
* Expends an Angon to lower an enemy's defense.
* Obtained: Dragoon Level 75
* Recast Time: 3 minutes
* Duration: 30 seconds (+15 seconds for each merit, cap is 1 min)
* Effect: Physical defense of target approximately -20% (51/256).


Working with an Automon
Now, we all know a Drg was meant to be with our wyverns, but what if we can get more from another partner? For this guide i am considering only the Sharpshot frame automon because at my level in-game most pt's are fighting piercing weak mobs. So with that said, lets take some looks at the Sharpshot.

Sharpshot
Elemental Slots
Fire 6
Ice 2
Wind 7
Earth 3
Lightning 6
Water 5
Light 5
Dark 2

Attatchments

Note: These are for my testing and not the only combonation possible


Ability Attatchments
Shock Absorber-- Stoneskin
Volt Gun-- Enthunder
Flashbulb-- Flash
Reactive Shiled-- Blaze Spikes
Strobe-- Provoke(only in worst case scenario)
Auto Repair Kit 2-- Regen (2 hp per tick w/1 light maneuver up)
Turbo Charger-- Haste


Skill Up Attatchments
Attuner-- Increases attack against powerful enemies (possibly a must have as the automon will only be at lv 37 since it will be subbed)
Tension Spring 2-- Increases Attack
Stabilizer 2-- Increases Accuracy
Heat Seeker-- Analyzes enemy evasion patterns and gradually enhances accuracy.
Accelerator 2-- Enhances Automaton Evasion

Battle Tactics

this is where i am still at a loss as i cant test any of it; ;

So at higher lvs most pt's seem to be fighting piercing weak mobs. Being a drg with a polearm we'll get this piercing bonus naturally but our wyverns won't because they are considered blunt. Now if we were to have the Sharpshot puppet out this means that it will also naturally recieve this bonus adding to its damage total. Also if we set the automon up to attack from next to the mobs it will not only get the ranged attacks but also normal melee. Adding to that it will also have en-thunder to pick up its DOT a little more. So this may bve a short example of how a fight may go(only from the drg's perspective , not added with the rest of pt)

Mob is pulled to camp
Drg uses Wind Maneuver-- Auto's R.Acc goes up along with recieving Haste
Pt begins attacks/nukes/debuffs
Drg engages themself and deploys puppet on mob
Drg uses Light Maneuver-- Auto uses Flash on mob and recieves Regen
Drg continues with normal jumps and DD
Drg uses Thunder Maneuver-- Enthunder is enhanced along with Accuracy(also if close to 100%tp, Forcing auto to use Daze ws when 100% is reached)
Drg continues as normal with drg subbing in an Earth Maneuver(Stoneskin) every 3mins. or so while trying to keep Wind(for R.acc) light(for Flash every 30sec.) and thunder(for Daze)
Fights end as normal.


Also in a "Worst Case Scenario"
fight is going horribly out of control
Drg /ja "Deactivate"
Drg /ja "Call Wyvern"
Drg /wait 2
Drg /ja "Spirit Surge"
Drg /ja "Activate"
Drg /ja "Deploy"
Drg /ja "Jump" -- Mob def down
Drg /ja "High Jump" -- causes an enemy’s TP to be reduced by a percentage proportionate to the amount of damage inflicted.
Drg /ja "Super Jump" (if needed)

Hopefully the fight has ended before all that happens, but you get the idea i hope.


Well, thats as far as ive gotten so far and any help info would be nice.
I am also well aware that with a post like this i can(and probably will) be rated down in forums, but just remember its just an idea of a possibility.

[Murphie]

FFXIO doesn't have a post rating system.

That said, rate down.

[neighbortaru]

um, i don't think you can have a wyvern and automaton at the same time... :huh:

[Srxjo]

you can only have one pet out a time with the exception to a pet and a NPC or other wise it would screw SMNs and BST over

[DTHURST]

there was never the intention of having two pets out at once.Just the puppet and only wyvern to use as sacrifice for Spirit Surge but even then if you read bottom part of post it shows macro to deactivate puppet before calling wyvern.

[IfritnoItazura]

If I get this right, you mean Automaton should be used in place of Wyvern for better damage output for a DRG/PUP?

I've heard stories that Automatic from /PUP is terrific at very low levels, but does it scale up well? I'd be very interested in any testing you can cite.

[lovekill]

One pet Sub Job = Very too weak = miss miss miss damage0

The Good Subjob for DRG = WAR,SAM,WHM,BLM,RDM,BLU,THF

For my DRG i have choice DRG/BLU for solot and WAR or SAM for DD

[IfritnoItazura]

One pet Sub Job = Very too weak = miss miss miss damage0
Is that entirely true? A DRG/BST may be able to charm Even Match pet, which should be more of a DD than his Wyvern.

[Srxjo]

as a RDM/BST with +27 CHR i wasn't able to charm a EP in ToAU might try a non ToAU area and the pup would be gimped as it would be capped at the same lvl as your sub meaning half skilled PUP, bu on a side note you can skill up your PUP as a Sub

[IfritnoItazura]

as a RDM/BST with +27 CHR i wasn't able to charm a EP in ToAU might try a non ToAU area and the pup would be gimped as it would be capped at the same lvl as your sub meaning half skilled PUP, bu on a side note you can skill up your PUP as a Sub

Hmm. Sorry to hear you had such a hard time with Charm, but I've spent hours watching my sister solo'ed on NIN/BST to Lv.37 (almost 38); NIN/BST can charm pets well enough to exp pretty much like BST, so there's no reason why DRG/BST cannot.

She's also Lv.60 BST, though; maybe that's the difference.

Anyway, this is getting really off topic; the thread is about DRG/PUP. If /PUP can be used to level the automaton's skill when on a high level job, so that begs the question exactly how toned down is the automaton from /PUP.

Really hoping someone had tested it and would report how it went...

[Srxjo]

you can only skill it up to the lvl 37 PUP skill cap

[KingOfZeal]

She's also Lv.60 BST, though; maybe that's the difference.

Yes, I would say that is what makes the difference. From what I understand, CHR is not the only stat in BST charming. When you charm, it does take in the BST level, regardless of what it's real level is. In other words, if I were ---1/BST75 (a 75 BST subbed to any level 1 job), I could probably charm Ts pretty well. Likewise, a BRD75/BST1 could also charm fairly decent mobs (DC's maybe?) because of the high CHR.

[IfritnoItazura]

1/BST75 (a 75 BST subbed to any level 1 job), I could probably charm Ts pretty well. Likewise, a BRD75/BST1 could also charm fairly decent mobs (DC's maybe?) because of the high CHR.

Stats are a little wacky at the low levels, so I'm not inclined to judge the viability of charming Tough's using /BST from 1/BST75. I can say that as NIN/BST, my sister seemed to have had more difficulty charming T bats than as BST.

I doubt BRD75/BST1 can charm all that well; call it a hunch.

[Kyrial Arthian]

BRD can charm with Maiden's Virelai anyway. :P That's besides the point though. Yes, Charm works based on your BST's actual level, not just what it is when subbed. This is why a 75 job who also has BST at 75 can charm things fairly easily with some CHR gear. I remember seeing a 75 PLD/BST wearing full Koenig (which gives huge CHR bonuses) charming Steelshells and Korrigans and sending them at Elder Goobbues in The Boyahda Tree once. Obviously his BST was also leveled, or he'd have not been able to do that.

Anyway, like others have mentioned, your automaton would only be half-leveled, and thus wouldn't be anywhere near as strong as your wyvern. So no, it wouldn't work out very well.

[Lmnop]

I thought I'd have no interest in this thread but I'm glad I dropped in...

the first responses clearly didn't even read the thread, as you thought the intent was 2 pets at the same time. The rest of you keep assuming that /pup is F'n weak. What we know:

- /pup at early levels is powerful
- /bst is a perfect example of the SJ rule not always applying (Btw, the difference between 2 naked 75 rdm/37 bsts was noted I believe -- one of their gauges showed a different result than the other despite identical stats because one was 75 bst as well while the other was 40ish).

We really do not know how /pup works and cannot assume.

Is Itazura the only open mind in this section of the forums?

[Srxjo]

ok sorry for going off topic again but there was a Taru RDM/BST with less CHR on than me with underlvled sub charming what i had failed

Ontopic: the DRG's Puppet would miss all hits get 1 shotted by a AoE damage and from DoT AoE, better off keeping /WAR to add to your DoT then use /PUP to lessen your DoT, just imagine a lvl 37 fighting a lvl 75 becouse that is what you have

[Tokitoki]

You would also need more waits in your macro for releasing the auto and calling the wyvern.

[KingOfZeal]

The thing is, Lmnop, that a PUP when subbed has skill levels it would as it it were the level when it's subbed, not based on the level it actually is (as BST does with charms).

In other words, even if your PUP is 75, the most of any particular skill it would have subbed would be based on 37. At that point, I don't think any of the currently available attachments would help very much with the accuracy issue. This is a KNOWN fact -- sub pup and find out yourself.

In the lower levels, /PUP would work awesome. However, once the skills start getting too low for the mobs, I don't think it would really help all that much, with the possible exception of the mage puppet for healing -- but, with DRG, I would (hope) the Wyvern's healing breath would do more than a puppet.

[Lmnop]

What Itazura was asking was information regarding this.

What if 'maton's skills are capped based off of your main job level, but only capable of being skilled up when PUP is main? I.e. a 75 PUP can max his 'maton so it's skills would be capped as a PUP of it's level on any other job he were to play.

If this were the case, you could level pup to 75 and then when you play thf/pup level 52, your automaton would have the skill cap of a 52 pup (because your PUP was already there).

Note that I'm not saying this is the case, that I think this is the case, or even that I want this to be the case. What I am saying, is that there are far too many assumptions being thrown around.

This is a KNOWN fact -- sub pup and find out yourself.

What Itazura* wants (and now, me too) is some supporting evidence of this. That is all.

*Btw, IfritnoItazura, I hope I'm not shoving words into your mouth.

[IfritnoItazura]

What troubles me is that no one has said "I tested this /PUP idea" with main job above Lv.20. Everyone just says it's half skilled, but none cites any reference or personal experience.

I can point to my sister's funny NIN37/BST60 and say, "Yep, that works!" (Because, if it doesn't, I'd be giving her R1's while she fuming at me for having suggested that combination to her. >_>; )

What we need here is someone with a job20++/PUP20++, go out and solo some DC to T's, and so can state with authority "Yes, it's good for _____!" or "No, it just sucks!"

Edit:
What Itazura* wants (and now, me too) is some supporting evidence of this. That is all.

*Btw, IfritnoItazura, I hope I'm not shoving words into your mouth.
lol. No, you got it precisely right. And, posted faster than me, to boot. :biggrin:

[Srxjo]

it was in a post some where on this forum saying it caps at 37 skill i cant find atm thou =/

[Vyuru]

Allrighty, been avoiding this thread until my test was over, and now that it's over I get to devote some time to it.

Keep in mind I know very little about the ToA jobs other than Cor can DD/buff, Blu can do just about anything, and Pup does, erm, stuff :P

Just going through DThrust's post:

As far as job traits for drg/pup go, we have no h2h ability, nor are there any h2h weapons that I am aware of that we can equip, so the martial arts trait is a tad useless. Resist slow is however, pretty nifty although seeing how well other resist traits work I am doubtful as to it's usefullness. I would suggest pairing it with a Purple Ribbon (Enhances resistance to all status ailments, rather potently too) however I think few people would be willing to give up their headslot for the chance to avoid a status effect.

Minor derail:

Although now that I think of it, I wonder if the Purple Ribbon would work on things like Amnesia? Hmmmmm, gonna test that out as soon as I can. Also I have to wonder about the element associated with Amnesia, I've heard people stacking on a ton of +earth gear completely resisting Break, I wonder if you could do that with Amnesia as well?

Rerail!:

General comments:

Spirit Link only works with wyverns as far as I know, although I have only tested it with summons and my NPC buddy, so you can not Spirit Link the Automaton if you so wanted. Because of the way Spirit Link works, I don't think that Empathy could work on an Automaton nor do I think an Automaton's WS would be boosted by Deep Breathing or affected by Strafe.

Long ago during an assault a friend came as blm/pup, we had a brief discussion about it, I don't remember the details and since he is in the middle of moving I can't ask him, I will as soon as I can though. However if I recall correctly, he said that the Automaton was level capped to your subjob's level, regardless of actual puppetmaster job level. His Pup level was about 38 at the time i think and he's probably now into the high 40s/low 50s as puppetmaster, so I'd pretty much trust his opinion, especially since he tends to think things through and is a bit of a perfectionist.

Another interesting factoid that he brought up was some kind of attachment that gave your Automaton Refresh, and doing something or other with the mage frame, and with that attachment, so that it could spam Cure II either almost constantly or alot.

Now, I don't know if the Automaton can cure other party members, but having a sidekick who can spam Cure II sounds rather attractive to me, depending on party and location that might be a handy thing to have.

However the DD frames will probably be lacking in accuracy and pure DD power. The Heat Seeker sounds interesting, but since it is a gradual +acc improvement I have to ask how much +acc/minute do they gain and compare that to the length of the fights. My gut instinct is that vs VT or IT mobs, it won't be that effective for awhile.

I'd like to know how much the Enthunder adds to your Automaton's attacks, I know at later levels a Rdm's En~ spells can be very potent.


With two pets you could potentially try dismissing the current pet when you see an AoE being charged up and then calling them out again if you wanted, assuming the pet is at full hp. I say with two because if you are even 1hp off then your recast timers are up and running and you are out of that pet for 20:00.


Hmm, it's true that our wyvern deals blunt damage, but our wyverns are also far more accurate than your common PC character. Plus the elemental breaths add a decent chunk of damage to our WS. Now you could dismiss the Automaton and call out your wyvern before a WS, but that seems a waste of the Automaton's TP, and your wyvern's breath attacks are effected by TP, so your wyvern won't be getting off any boosted breath attacks. Now my wyvern generally doesn't get off many as it is because I tend to reach 100% tp faster than she does, but that is still something to take into consideration.

Since the Automaton will be level capped at lvl 37 at it's highest level it will be very susceptiable to AoEs of any kind. Imp's Poisonga II can take Lumiere from full health to slightly under half health, maybe more on a bad day, and that is with her and I at lvl 70, what's it gonna do to a lvl 37 Automaton? Not to mention the Puk's AoE attacks, which while not really damaging, they tend to spam alot, far more so than other mobs do it seems.

Damselflies in the Mire are also a problem, Cursed Sphere hasn't gotten any more Wyvern friendly in 54 some odd levels since the Dunes, or Gustav Tunnel.

So it sounds to me that the best way to do this would be to have a mage puppet setup for healing, if possible and I don't know if it is. It would also depend on the attachments, mp less flash is pretty nifty, although I wouldn't bring a puppet just for that purpose, but it is another perk.


So as I see it, offensively, no good. Samurai subjob will give you a lower level of hate and probably raise your damage output to equal a Warrior's subjob, or close to it, but without as much hate. Offensive wise, I'd probably take either /sam or /war over /pup in the higher levels, low levels, like pre lvl 20 or 30 may be different. /pup paired with a NPC buddy may be a devastating combo, but then so is drg/mage in any level range really.

Healingwise, it's kinda hard to say without more info on the healing abilities of an Automaton. But assuming top of the line gear (really top of the line) you've got Ethereal Earring, Ares Body, Sanction Refresh, and Wyrm Armet. That is a ton of auto refresh for a drg/mage, who needs so little mp for a big return to hp. Ethereal Earring for those AoE friendly mobs, and Wyrm Armet for even more potent healing breaths, just do the Drachen/Wyrm Armet macro swap to gain benefits of both.

Yes, an actual instance of where I approve of macro gear swaps, shocking :P

And here again, your wyvern benefits in more powerful healing breaths with more TP, so it's handy to have them out meleeing. The only downside is that your party member has to be at 50% hp to use it. Merit Deep Breathing and I'd be interested in seeing just how high Healing Breath can go.

[Vyuru]

Allrighty, heard back from my friend and he does confirm that the puppet's level is capped to that of the subjob. So with a lvl 75 job you will have a lvl 37 puppet, assuming lvl 37+ puppetmaster job of course.

[nickofearth]

No offense, but... no. If i wanted a puppet, I'd level PUP. I <3 meh Ember and wouldn't give her up for a puppet. Seriously our Wyverns is what makes Dragoon special (at least in my eyes.) SMN, BST and PUP all have pets that they can order to fight. DRG has a pet wyvern that fights along side the Dragoon. Like a special bond, not a master/slave relationship.


Also, early on puppets were full leveled @75 (even if pup as lvl1) but they fixed that. Having a half level pet isn't worth having. Having a wyvern out full time and occastionally using Deep Breathing and/or macroing your Wyrm Armet would be much better.

[raidenn]

I hear that comment all the time in allakazam....
"my wyvern is my partner... notmy slave..."

[massaranger]

Stats are a little wacky at the low levels, so I'm not inclined to judge the viability of charming Tough's using /BST from 1/BST75. I can say that as NIN/BST, my sister seemed to have had more difficulty charming T bats than as BST.

I doubt BRD75/BST1 can charm all that well; call it a hunch.

Well they can charm ok they get a song that charms mob without bst so i can assume with /bst thsy can hold there own.