Which Job Should I Play?
(Part I: Categories of Jobs)


If you ever asked yourself, "Which job should I play?", the short (and correct) answer is, "Try out a job to see if you like it or not."
For those who need flavors of each job to help out with the decision making process, this is your guide.

Final Fantasy XI has 20 different jobs (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Jobs); the "Standard Jobs" are available as soon as you log in and create a character. The "Extra Jobs" require first reaching Lv.30 on one of the Standard Jobs, then completing certain quests. Most of the Extra Jobs are inaccessible without the appropriate expansion packs installed.

Standard Jobs
WAR - Warrior (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Warrior)
MNK - Monk (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Monk)
THF - Thief (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Thief)
WHM - White Mage (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/White_Mage)
BLM - Black Mage (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Black_Mage)
RDM - Red Mage (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Red_Mage)
Extra Jobs (Original)
PLD - Paladin (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Paladin)
DRK - Dark Knight (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Dark%20Knight)
RNG - Site Temporarily Unavailable (http://Ranger)
BST - Beastmaster (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Beastmaster)
BRD - Bard (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Bard)
Extra Jobs (Rise of Zilart)
NIN - Ninja (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ninja)
SAM - Samurai (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Samurai)
DRG - Dragoon (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Dragoon)
SMN* - Summoner (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Summoner)
(* Does not need Rise of Zilart installed to unlock)
Extra Jobs (Treasure of Aht Urhgan)
PUP - Puppetmaster (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Puppetmaster)
COR - Corsair (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Corsair)
BLU - Blue Mage (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Blue_Mage)
Extra Jobs (Wings of the Goddess)
DNC - Dancer (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Dancer)
SCH - Scholar (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Scholar)

How to Use
Read the Categories and glance through the rest of this post to find interesting sounding Jobs.
Use your browser to search the rest of the posts for more detail informations on the those Jobs by their full names. (e.g. Search for ((Red Mage)) if interested in RDM.)
Categories
Several different ways of classifying Jobs in FFXI.

By Roles
Most jobs have a well defined role(s) in parties; if a particular role seems appealing, read on about the jobs listed.
- Tank: PLD, NIN, WAR(↘).
- Healer: WHM(↗), RDM, BLU, PLD, SMN, SCH, PUP(Lv.40+), DNC(↘), DRG(↘).
- Support: BRD(↗), COR, RDM, SMN, SCH, WHM(↘), BLM(↘), BLU(↘), DNC(↘).
- Damage Dealer: WAR, MNK, THF, BLM, DRK, RNG, BST, NIN, SAM, DRG, PUP, BLU, SCH, SMN(↘), COR(↘), PLD(↘), DNC(↘).

By Convenience
If long waiting time for party invites is the deciding factor, try starting parties, play in a small group, or set up static parties. Otherwise, consider the following:
- Solo Exp'ing: BST(↗), RDM, DRG, PUP, BLU, BLM, SMN(↘).
- Fast Invites: BRD, RDM, COR, NIN, PLD. (Level dependent!)

By Annoyance/Expense
Generally, melee Jobs are more expensive than mage Jobs. Flexible Jobs with multiple subsets of equipment also add to the burden. Jobs which heavily utilize consumables tend to stand head and shoulder above others; leveling is burning Gil for them. Besides the question of money, certain jobs takes substantial amount of upfront or on-going preparations. New players should especially take these and other annoyance factors into consideration when selecting Jobs.

Consumable Expenses:
- NIN: Shihei for Utsusemi, plus various other Ninjutsu tools, and possibly Shurikens for the range attack NIN's. Base equipment are not very cheap, either.
- RNG: Ammo. It is possible to toss away 100+ gil for every shot taken at a monster--hit or miss.
- COR: Ammo, and elemental cards (for Quick Draw).

Preparation Intensive:
- SMN: Ideally, should acquire most Avatars before exp partying. This can be time consuming, and require high level job to start with if doing the prime avatar fights. Otherwise, have to wait until Lv.20 before able to do obtain Avatars.
- PUP: The best attachments are expensive and/or difficult to attain. Training Automatons for skill up's can also be a bother.
- BLU: Constantly need to update spell list--all of which must be acquired in person, by fighting monsters.

Miscellaneous Annoyances:
- SMN: Slow to gain some of the most useful support Blood Pacts. VERY slow in obtaining decent damage Blood Pacts.
- RDM: Lot's of gears needed to play optimally; extensive macro gear switches and inventory crunches considered necessities.
- NIN: Need lot's of gearing sub-sets to balance between enmity, damage output, and survivability. Full set of Ninjutsu consumes much inventory space.
- BRD: Lot's of instruments creating inventory/storage headaches.
- DRG: Wyvern does not last long when fighting against monsters with AoE attacks.
- BLM: Has no place in the popular "WS Spam" parties.
- PUP/BST/DRG/SMN: Very, very misunderstood (and thus often unwanted) by most EXP parties.
- DD's in general: Often suffer from slow invite rate.
- Support Job expectations: The community expect players of certain jobs to have a variety of support jobs ready to use. This can lead to problems for the player if s/he simply hates certain jobs.



Selected FAQs
Here are the answers to some of the most commonly asked job questions.

Ninja vs. Paladin--which is better?
Which is better? The answer is: Yes.

Paladin does better against monsters with multi-hit/hand-to-hand/counter attacks, since it is not dependent on Utsusemi shadows for damage mitigation. Its impressive set of tools to secure the monsters in place also provides better safety for the party. Ninja is superior on monsters with hard hitting, single target attacks, since Utusemi absorbs 50 point blows just as well as 500 point ones. Aside from taking less MP to cure overall, NIN also provides significantly better damage output than PLD while tanking.

Although some old-time PLD's resent the relatively upstart NIN's intrusion into the tanking scene, in truth the two jobs can work very well together in exp parties, especially when a THF is also present. With NIN main tanking, PLD can go full-time berserk and use DD gear/food, and help extending Utsusemi with Flash, and handle links and emergencies with Cures, Cover, Provoke, etc. THF can SATA on to whoever is more convenient, and the party doesn't have to worry about first provoker taking too much damage. Reverse of PLD main tanking and NIN DD or shared co-tanking also can work.

This author thinks PLD has a more appealing "flow" or "feel" than NIN, but NIN is undeniably exciting to play. It's difficult to say which job is better for each player; it's best just to try them out. Both are fine tanks, really, but please note that NIN is more expensive to equip, and constantly drains the Gil reserve with Shihei and other Ninjutsu tools.


Red Mage vs. Bard vs. Corsair--which is the best?
RDM - Enfeebles mob, supports PT via Cures, nuke damage, Haste, Refresh, Dispel, sleeps links
Specialty: Enfeebling
Best with: Balanced PT. Buffs aren't amazing, but you don't get your ass kicked easily like COR and BRD do.

BRD - Enhances allies performance with static stat bonuses, Elegy and Finalie are the prime debuffs, Ballad and Lullaby for extra support.
Specialty: Melee buffs (March, Madrigal, Minuet)
Best with: Melee PT. Decent in manaburn, but can't match COR's mage buffs. Ballad and Threnodies are nice, but no match for COR's mage buffs and Quick Draw.

COR - Enhances allies performance via random percentage bonuses based on job traits, Uses Quick Draw as a mild damage nuke which enhances enfeebles and debuffs to the matching element. Refreshes, dispels, sleeps. Resets job ability timers with Random Deal and Wild Card.
Specialty: Mage buffs (magic attack, accuracy, +hMP), pet buffs (pet attack/accuracy, pet magic attack/accuracy).
Best with - Mage PT. Good with a melee PT when played dilligently.COR's unique melee buffs are powerful, but the ones comparable to BRD's are not
Omgwtfbbqkitten summed them up pretty well for party use, though it should be noted that RDM is the only one which can also function as the main Healer. Outside of parties, RDM is also the (much) better solo'er, making it the most flexible and adaptive of them all.

That said, really, most exp parties would be more than happy to have one or two of these three jobs.

___(Race) vs. ____(Job)
Many new players ask "Is ____(so and so race) good for ____ (so and so job)?"

Basically, the answer is "Yes, any race can play any job." A player's skill and preparation generally outweighs the race factor.

That said, low level Galka magic users are more reliant on MP+ equipment and juices, while low level Tarutaru tanks may want to invest in HP+ equipment and Selbina Milk. For much of the exp party experience, though, it is MP recovery rather than max MP which determine the performance of magic users, and the max HP isn't the most important concern when it comes to tanking most monsters.

Which support job do I need for my job?
Obviously, that depends a lot of which job. For example, PLD needs /WAR for support job in exp parties, but a BLM does not--in fact, should not use /WAR. Also, the desired uses can dictate support job choices; a RDM does not need /NIN for exp partying at any level, but a RDM/NIN is very good for kiting and soloing.

In Part II, each job will have a list of commonly needed support jobs.


Disclaimer
Aiming for "informed opinions"; none of that "this job is better than that job" snootiness, but (much) more than just bunch of lists of traits, abilities, and spells.

Which Job Should I Play?
(Part II: Job Descriptions)

Suggested Lv.: A suggestion on how far to take a Job in order to get a feel for how it would be like later on.
Roles(s): The role(s) performed in exp parties.
Minimal SJ(s): The Support Job(s) eeded to reach the suggested level(s).
EXP SJ(s): The Support Job(s) a player should have for reaching Lv.75.
Specialty SJ(s): Situational use Support Job(s); most listed are not for exp'ing use, at least not commonly so. (Not all jobs have these listed.)

Not all usable support jobs are listed; the selection reflects the particular taste and knowledge/ignorance of this author, and by no means should be considered definitive.


Standard Jobs
These jobs are unlocked from the moment a player install and register FFXI. Everyone starts in Vana'diel with one (or more) of these jobs.

WAR ((Warrior (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Warrior)))
Suggested Lv: 25+
Role(s): Damage Dealer (physical), Tank (early levels), Puller (sometimes)
Minimal SJ(s): /MNK
EXP SJ(s): /NIN, /THF, /SAM
Description:
Often starts off party life as a tank, and can continue to function as a tank, but that role is generally given to PLD and NIN after Lv.37 due to efficiency reasons. It makes for a very decent damage dealer from Lv.15 (Berserk) on.

Suggest taking to Lv.25 as trial, for access to Berserk (Lv.15), Double Attack (Lv.25), and Defender (Lv.25).

Prefers Great Axe and Axe for weapon, though performs better damage with Great Axe at lower levels. Warrior is asked to be puller often enough to warren carrying a ranged weapon and ammo, and should prepare both a tanking equipment set (Defense, VIT) as well as a damage equipment set (Accuracy, STR, Attack), at least to Lv.40.

MNK ((Monk (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Monk)))
Suggested Lv: 31
Role(s): Damage Dealer (physical)
Minimal SJ(s): /WAR
EXP SJ(s): /WAR, /NIN
Specialty SJ(s): /WHM
Description:
MNK exists for damage--punches and kicks. Its output starts off as mediocre, but keeps growing as one levels. At higher levels, a MNK's very impressive damage frequently creates headaches for tanks. In party, the impressive HP bar isn't enough to keep tanking to higher levels, though should be possible to function as a tank to Lv.30.

Lv.31 is suggest for access to Dodge (Lv.15), Focus (Lv.25), Berserk (Lv.30, from /WAR15), and Martial Arts III (Lv.31).

The preferred weapon for MNK is Hand-to-Hand, and it's usually equipped for Accuracy, Strength, and Attack for exp parties.

THF ((Thief (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Thief)))
Suggested Lv: 30+/33+
Role(s): Damage Dealer (physical), Enmity Control (Lv.30+), Puller (frequently)
Minimal SJ(s): /WAR
EXP SJ(s): /NIN, /WAR
Description:
THF is the most technical of the three standard melee jobs. Its Sneak Attack (Lv.15) requires a THF to be facing a monster's back; its Trick Attack (Lv.30) requires another party member to stand between the THF and the monster. The ability to combine Sneak Attack and Trick Attack (SATA) is the source of THF player's power and distinction--as well as the majority of his frustration. Party members need to line up and play in a certain way to fully utilize a Thief's ability to generate an eye-popping, large damage attack, and transfer the enmity from that to another party member--usually, the tank.

Lv.30+ is suggested, since to be a Thief is to experience SATA. However, the first great Dagger weaponskill is at Lv.33 (Viper Bite), so a player trying out the job may want to stay with THF until then.

Preferred weapon for THF is generally the one-handed Sword before Lv.33, and the Dagger from Lv.33 on. No THF should ever go to an exp party without ranged weapons; the standard is the crossbow, for Acid Bolt, Sleep Bolt, and Bloody Bolt.

WHM ((White Mage (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/White_Mage)))
Suggested Lv: 25/32/40
Role(s): Healer, Support(↘) (in tandem with Healer role)
Minimal SJ(s): /BLM
EXP SJ(s): /BLM, /SMN
Specialty SJ(s): /RDM, /BRD, /PUP
Description:
The best Healer in FFXI, hands down, with the spells to cure efficiently and remove status effects from players. Also has MP efficient Protectra III/IV and Shellra III/IV, which other jobs cannot provide. (BTW, this guide's author highly recommends every new player try WHM, and take it to at least Lv.25.) Mages generally should be back-line jobs, and WHM is no exception--stay out of AoE (Area of Effect) attacks and lob cures and other spells from a distance. Outside of parties, WHM's are well recognized for their Teleport line of spells for moving people around, fast, and many WHM's charge fees for these Teleport services to supplement their income.

WHM's role in party centers on curing and buffing, with Lv.25 is the first milestone--access to Raise (Lv.25), as well as Invisible (Lv.25), Regen (Lv.21), Sneak (Lv.20), Barfira (Lv.17), Curaga (Lv.16), and Silence (Lv.15). Lv.32 marks the second milestone with access to Erase, while Lv.40 brings Haste.

With few exceptions, a good White Mage is the one with all his spells, and reasonable hMP and MND+ equipment.

BLM ((Black Mage (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Mage)))
Suggested Lv: 32 (or 17/50+)
Role(s): Damage Dealer (magical), Support(↘) (in tandem with DD role).
Minimal SJ(s): /WHM
EXP SJ(s): /WHM, /NIN (solo/small group)
Specialty SJ(s): /NIN, /RDM, /DRG
Description:
To be BLM is to damage with magic spells. In large chunks. Starts off party life as the notable DD against those high defense crabs (esp. in not-so-bright parties without someone using Acid Bolts) and those hard to hit Pugils, and moves more and more toward larger, spike damages with fewer spells in higher levels. In parties, a good BLM is expected to stay in the back-line, toss out attack spells, and help out with curing party members when needed.

Lv.32 is suggested, since that's when a BLM gains Blizzaga to Magic Burst on the popular Distortion. (Most exp monsters are weak against Ice element magic.) Magic Attack Bonus II (Lv.30) is also available then, so it's a good point for evaluation. For those with less patience, Lv.17 isn't a bad level aim for, since that's the level for access to Blizzard and Warp. While Lv.50 may be pushing things a bit, there's really nothing like the experience of MB'ing with ancient magic such as Freeze (Lv.50), so it deserves at least a mention.

BLM equipment focuses on hMP and INT in early levels, with the addition of Magic Attack Bonus+ and Elemental Magic Skill+ items later on. A BLM should strive for all spells available, but the utility of Stone/Stonega lines are rather questionable...

RDM ((Red Mage (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Mage)))
Suggested Lv: 41
Role(s): Support, Healer
Minimal SJ(s): /WHM
EXP SJ(s): /WHM, /BLM,
Specialty SJ(s): /DRK, /BRD, /NIN
Description:
Highly sought after in parties (esp. Lv.41+), and quite capable of (slowly) solo on its own. It's a top notch enfeebler; add to it Cure's, Protect/Shell's, Haste, and it is a very flexible mage. Outside of parties, its Stoneskin, Phalanx, and Ice Spikes spells, plus sword, dagger, and shield skills allows it to go toe to toe against many foes, or using Gravity, Bind, Sleep to play a game of kiting/sleeping and nuking with enemies it cannot fight straight on. Within parties, a RDM's duty is centered around Refresh, Haste, enfeeble, and main/backup healing. Though it is capable of contributing substantially to damage by melee'ing during earlier levels, it is safer to play as a back-line job against monsters with AoE attacks or just to ensure enough rest time to recharge MP.

Suggest playing to Lv.41, since that's the level for Refresh, and Convert (Lv.40) would already be accessible, along with nearly the entire enfeebling repertoire (Paralyze, Slow, Blind, Silence, Gravity, Dia II/Bio II, Sleep, etc). RDM's workload in party is considerably lighter before Lv.40/41, and becomes even busier at Lv.48 with Haste, but Lv.41 is a good level to find out if RDM is truly for a player or not.

RDM is not unlike WHM in needing hMP and MND equipment, but also desire Enfeebling Magic skill+ items. After obtaining Convert, MP+ items are very much welcomed as well (for most races). Just about every spell a RDM is useful in some situation; highly advise not skipping any.

Which Job Should I Play?
(Part II: Job Descriptions)


Suggested Lv.: A suggestion on how far to take a Job in order to get a feel for how it would be like later on.
Roles(s): The role(s) performed in exp parties.
Minimal SJ(s): The Support Job(s) eeded to reach the suggested level(s).
EXP SJ(s): The Support Job(s) a player should have for reaching Lv.75.
Specialty SJ(s): Situational use Support Job(s); most listed are not for exp'ing use, at least not commonly so. (Not all jobs have these listed.)

Not all usable support jobs are listed; the selection reflects the particular taste and knowledge/ignorance of this author, and by no means should be considered definitive.


Extra Jobs (Original)
These jobs can be unlocked by any player with FFXI installed, after he reaches Lv.30+ in another job.

PLD ((Paladin (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Paladin)))
Suggested Lv: 37
Role(s): Tank, Damage Dealer (physical; 2nd tier), Healer (very uncommon)
Minimal SJ(s): /WAR
EXP SJ(s): /WAR
Specialty SJ(s): /NIN, /WHM
Description:
PLD is the tank of FFXI--provokes the monster into attacking him, then mitigates damage taken with defensive armor, food, job abilities, cures, and Flash. This job has a well deserved reputation for anchoring the target solidly in place better than any other job. Due to the importance of a tank in parties, PLD players enjoys above-par invite rates (Lv.37-72, roughly). While it can be a Damage Dealer and Healer, it's uncommon to find most PLD in either role (at least, before Lv.70+), especially as Healer.

Lv.37 is suggested for Flash (Lv.37), and access to Cover (Lv.35), Auto-Refresh (Lv.35), Sentinel (Lv.30), Shield Mastery I (Lv.25), and Shield Bash (Lv.15). These, along with Provke and the Cure line of spells, really define how a Paladin plays in parties.

A Paladin holds Sword and Shield in his hands, and aims for Vitality, Defense, Enmity+, and Shield Skill+ for armor and accessories. PLD doesn't have many spells, so get them all. Always bring defense food to parties.

DRK ((Dark Knight (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Knight)))
Suggested Lv: 37
Role(s): Damage Dealer (physical), Enmity Transfer (Lv.60+), Puller (sometimes)
Minimal SJ(s): /WAR
EXP SJ(s): /WAR, /THF, /SAM, /NIN
Description:
DRK is often (mistakenly) casted as the polar opposite of PLD, as some "uber Damage Dealer". While it is a very strong DD, DRK is frequently out damaged by the likes of WAR, MNK, DRG, and etc. With a long growth curve, DRK starts party life producing decent (though not exceptional) DoT via melee with weak damage but skillchain useful weaponskills. Mid levels, it gains the unique enfeebling/self-enhancing spells with the Absorb- line, as well as the important, safety enhancing Stun. Later on, it would become the premiere melee spike damage dealer, allowing it transfer large amounts of enmity to tanks with WS + Trick Attack using /THF. It may be most accurate to describe DRK's as the uber party-support melee DD, instead; finesse is a key to playing the DRK well.

Lv.37 is suggested, for Stun (Lv.37), Absorb-VIT (Lv.35), Last Resort (Lv.15), Weapon Bash (Lv.20), and the job defining Soul Eater (Lv.30). Although this is far short of Lv.60+ where DRK/THF performs enmity transfer, it should be enough of a sample. Those curious about enmity transfer can take THF to 30 or 33 first, since a career DRK would need to level THF anyway. (By the way, DRK/WHM is a very good combination up to level 20, and situationally good afterwards.)

Preferred weapons are Scythe and Great Sword, though Great Axe can be used to good effects at lower levels. Great Sword has more utility than Scythe, though a serious DRK would level both. Otherwise, equipment focuses on Accuracy, Strength, Attack, and Dark Magic Skill+. Should also pack a crossbow and cheap bolts for pulling, in case MP is hard to come by.

RNG ((Ranger (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Ranger)))
Suggested Lv: 30
Role(s): Damage Dealer (physical), Puller (frequently)
Minimal SJ(s): /WAR or /NIN
EXP SJ(s): /NIN, /WAR
Description:
Due to ammo expenditure, RNG is one of the most expensive Job to level in FFXI. The trade off is that range attacks' pDIF (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Level_Correction_Function_and_pDIF) has a smaller level difference penalty than melee attacks--the basis for the power of Ranger against Incredibly Tough (IT) rated monsters compared to the melee Jobs. Party life for RNG's usually revolves around pulling monsters to camp, find the "sweet spot" distance to balance damage and accuracy (farther away equals more power but less accuracy), and does as much damage as possible without moving the monster around.

Lv.30 suggested for Barrage (Lv.30) and Accuracy Bonus II (Lv.30). This will give the player a taste of fast TP gain and high damage a RNG is capable of, without the expense of higher level range weapons/ammo. (The wonderful experience that is Sidewinder/Slugshot, unfortunately, would fall out of this scope.)

Bow, Gun, and Crossbow. In lower levels, Bows have the best damage and can use arrows with accuracy+ on them, but Crossbows can utilize Acid Bolt (Lv.15) to increase the damage from all physical attacks by all physical DD's in party. Crossbow's damage picks up when Holy Bolt (Lv.30) becomes available, but supposedly Guns are the top choice for the end levels. Range Accuracy, STR, Range Attack, and AGI are sought after in equipment and food.

BST ((Beastmaster (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Beastmaster)))
Suggested Lv: 23
Role(s): Solo'er, Damage Dealer (physical), Solo'er.
Minimal SJ(s): /WHM (solo use, mostly)
EXP SJ(s): /WHM, /NIN, /WAR
Description:
BST is a "Pet Job", but doesn't come with any pet. The pets are either the local monsters captivated by Charm (Lv.1), or "jug pets" lured using Call Beast (Lv.23). Damage wise, most charmed "Event Match" Lv.10+ beasts are much more capable than players at the same level. That power is tempered by the unreliability of charm, however. This combination makes BST the most capable EXP solo'er in FFXI--and the most frequently K.O.'ed one. In traditional parties, BST with an appropriate pet is an exceptional damage dealer on the front-line. Yet, party invites tend to be sparse for this frequently misunderstood Job--good thing a BST is a natural for solo'ing and duo'ing.

By Lv.23, a BST player would have had plenty of experience charming (and failing to charm) beasts as companions in quest of experience. With Call Beast (Lv.23) providing the alternative source for pets, the foundation of BST's exp style is complete. (Leave (Lv.35) job ability enables more advance tactics, but everything is still largely build on what was learned in the first 23 levels.)

When solo'ing, the idea is to be prepared--and do so with great freedom for individual tastes. Aside from the universal Light/Apollo Staff, Charm+/CHR gear, and Reraise items, BST's have been known to lug along various combination and degree of: MP gear/food, hMP gear/food, Refresh gear, juice (refresh), regen drinks, accuracy/attack/defense gear/food, Powder Boots (charged item, for Flee), jug pets, pet food, one-handed Axe, shield, and more! In traditional parties, BST tend to stick to accuracy/attack DD gears/food like WAR does, but bring level appropriate DD jug pets as well. BST is legendary for its ability to obtain Beastmen's Seals--with so many BCNM opportunities, mid to high level BST's really have no excuse for sub-par gears.

BRD ((Bard (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Bard)))
Suggested Lv: 25+
Role(s): Support, Puller (mostly at higher levels)
Minimal SJ(s): /WHM
EXP SJ(s): /WHM, /NIN
Specialty SJ(s): /RDM
Description:
Bard excels at making a party stronger. In EXP parties, a BRD provides damage boosting songs (Minuet, March, Madrigal) to the front line, and refresh and mage specific songs to the back line (Ballad, Etude), and sometimes help healing with Paeon and/or Cure spells from /WHM. In addition, it enfeebles targets with the likes of Elegy (slow), Threnody (lower elemental resist), and Requiem (DoT), as well as perform crowd control with Lullaby (sleep). In special fights, Bards have many tools to boost performances of mission critical members, such as Minne for PLD tank's defense, Mambo for NIN tank's evasion, or use Carol to boost elemental resistance for the entire party. This makes BRD one of the most sought after Job by EXP parties and by end game community.

At Lv.25, BRD receives Mage's Ballad, and becomes firmly set in the routine of separate front line and back line song support, making it the ideal level for newer players to evaluate if BRD is for them to take to 75.

Not all BRD songs are useful, but most of them can be obtained cheaply from NPC's. Equipment wise, some MP+ gear for /WHM's spells are nice, and CHR boosts the potency of some songs. More important are the instruments which enhance songs, and the elemental staves (Lv.51) for matching offensive songs, plus Dark Staff for MP healing.

Which Job Should I Play?
(Part II: Job Descriptions)


Suggested Lv.: A suggestion on how far to take a Job in order to get a feel for how it would be like later on.
Roles(s): The role(s) performed in exp parties.
Minimal SJ(s): The Support Job(s) eeded to reach the suggested level(s).
EXP SJ(s): The Support Job(s) a player should have for reaching Lv.75.
Specialty SJ(s): Situational use Support Job(s); most listed are not for exp'ing use, at least not commonly so. (Not all jobs have these listed.)

Not all usable support jobs are listed; the selection reflects the particular taste and knowledge/ignorance of this author, and by no means should be considered definitive.


Extra Jobs (Zilart)
Except for Summoner, these jobs can be unlocked only by players with Lv.30+ job and Rise of the Zilart expansion pack installed.

NIN ((Ninja (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Ninja)))
Suggested Lv: 37/40
Role(s): Tank, Damage Dealer (melee/ranged, and magical; level dependent), Solo'er.
Minimal SJ(s): /WAR
EXP SJ(s): /WAR
Specialty SJ(s): /DRK (/RNG, /RDM, /BLM to lesser extend)
Description:
Ninja is the trick tank of game--it deals with damage by avoiding it entirely--in theory, at least. Party life begins at Lv.12 for NIN, when it can begin to function as a co-tank, reducing overall curing needs with Utsusemi line of Ninjutsu. It is often pressed into main tanking before Utsusemi: Ni with poor results, especially given the low enmity generation ability from a NIN at those levels, and the lack of Trick Attack from THF until Lv.30. If not tanking, NIN becomes a good DD at Lv.20+, though not always by using /WAR. Outside of parties, NIN can be pretty decent at soloing, though somewhat dangerous against monsters with multi-hit attacks or the ability to silence or paralyze.

Lv.37 for Utsusemi: Ni; its four shadows finally gives a NIN the ability to ably main tank without the excessive gap between one three-shadow Utsusemi: Ichi to the next one, 30 seconds away. Lv.40 is the real recommended level, though; with the use of Ni level -ton Ninjutsu's, a NIN can securely hold the monster without Trick Attack, if the DD's show moderate restraints during battles.

Leveling NIN is inventory heavy. Aside from all the different Ninjutsu tools and tool bags, NIN's often have multiple sub-sets of gears: Accuracy/Attack set, evasion set, enmity set, and eventually, a haste set. Oddball NINs may even carry INT/MAB set or range accuracy sets. Spell wise, get everything--many have claimed that NIN's enfeebs are stronger than matching RDM's versions. Between gears, tools, and possibly shurikens, leveling NIN properly is pretty expensive.

SAM ((Samurai (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Samurai)))
Suggested Lv: 30
Role(s): Damage Dealer, Skillchain assistant.
Minimal SJ(s): /WAR or /RNG or /DRG
EXP SJ(s): /WAR, /THF
Specialty SJ(s): /RNG
Description:
Samurai is normally thought of as the master of TP, though many other jobs can obtain TP about as fast. What truly distinguish SAM from other melees is how well it can skillchain--able to open and close almost any skillchain, and the ability to reliably gain TP on demand via Meditate (Lv.30). SAM is not reliable at soloing, though Seigan (Lv.35) is pretty useful for that. In parties, the SAM's role is DD/skillchain, though at higher level it may be possible to tank VT's, using its damage output to compensate for the lack of enmity tools.

Recommend leveling to Lv.30, for Mediate (Lv.30), Store TP II (Lv.30), Hasso (Lv.25), Zanshin (Lv.20), Third Eye (Lv.15), the ability to open and close Distortion (Tachi: Enpi), and open Fragmentation (Tachi: Hobaku).

Low level Great Katana's are few in number, and fairly inexpensive (even HQ ones), so it's worthwhile and easy to keep up. (Pick up a Katayama Ichimonji (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Katayama_Ichimonji) if possible.) The adventurous can go with Polearm (Obelisk (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Obelisk) Lv.4, Bronze Spear +1 (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Bronze_Spear_Plus_1) Lv.7) for better damage during very low levels (Lv.4 to 10, then switch to Katayama Ichimonji). Long term wise, SAM's share with other melees the same love for accuracy, strength, and attack gears.

DRG ((Dragoon (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Dragoon)))
Suggested Lv: 25
Role(s): Damage Dealer, Healer (rarely in parties), Solo'er.
Minimal SJ(s): /WAR or /WHM
EXP SJ(s): /WAR, /THF, /SAM
Specialty SJ(s): /BLU, /WHM, /RDM (for solo and alternative partying)
Description:
Dragoon is a versatile job. It's probably the most devastating Damage Dealer below Lv.30, and does quite well as DD to Lv.75, especially when its Wyvern damage is accounted for. DRG's role in party is usually DD, though it can function as main healer (usu. Lv.40+). It is also capable of solidly hold monster from damage and Provoke alone between Lv.10 to Lv.20. Look for THF in parties, as DRG is terrific at opening Distortion for one. Outside of parties, DRG is a capable solo'er, nearly on par with PUP, and able to take on more type of monsters than SMN.

Recommend taking DRG to Lv.25, for Spirit Link (Lv.25), Jump (Lv.10), Call Wyvern (Lv.1), Attack Bonus (Lv.10), and Healing Breath II (Lv.20). BTW, it may be a little odd, but DRG/RNG is rather nice Lv.20 to Lv.29 if no healing is required.

DRG's share with other melees the same love for accuracy, strength, and attack gears. (Soloing DRG may want a little more MP and defense, however.) Weapon wise, the Polearm is it, though some odd situations may make Staff attractive thanks to Spirit Taker (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Spirit_Taker).

SMN ((Summoner (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Summoner)))
Suggested Lv: 25
Role(s): Support, Healer, Damage Dealer, Solo'er.
Minimal SJ(s): /WHM
EXP SJ(s): /WHM
Description:
Summoner is difficult to get a handle on. It (slowly) gains many useful support Blood Pacts as it levels, but it does not have any Refresh like capability. Its Avatars can open/close any skillchain, but generally not for great deal of damage. It can also Magic Burst for respectable damage, but not at all levels. It has a huge MP pool for healing, but is capped at Cure III from /WHM. It's a good addition for a balanced party with everything already, though it's usually brought in as a main healer. It can solo ably on Bomb and Worm type of monsters outside of parties for experience points.

A long, rewarding growth curve and a diverse set of abilities makes SMN ideal for players looking for a challenge. Lv.25 is recommended; at that level, its ability includes tier II elemental magic BP's (Lv.10), Aerial Armor (Lv.25) buff, Lunar Cry (Lv.21) debuff, the ability to open and close all Lv.2 skillchain, and Cure II from /WHM (Lv.22). Those are just the tip of a SMN's eventual power, but already cover all the basics with examples of useful buff, debuff, healing, skillchain, and Magic Burst.

Since a SMN is overwhelmingly dependent on its Avatar, getting as many Avatar as possible before partying is a good idea. Certainly all the Celestial Avatars (Ifrit, Shiva, Garuda, Titan, Ramuh, and Leviathan) should be obtained, and Fenrir is highly recommend. Equipment wise, it's hMP/MP gear, and elemental staves (Lv.51) to save on perpetuation cost. Soloing SMN should obtain the HQ Light Staff, Apollo's Staff (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Apollo's_Staff), and enmity reduction gear as soon as possible.

Which Job Should I Play?
(Part II: Job Descriptions)

Suggested Lv.: A suggestion on how far to take a Job in order to get a feel for how it would be like later on.
Roles(s): The role(s) performed in exp parties.
Minimal SJ(s): The Support Job(s) eeded to reach the suggested level(s).
EXP SJ(s): The Support Job(s) a player should have for reaching Lv.75.
Specialty SJ(s): Situational use Support Job(s); most listed are not for exp'ing use, at least not commonly so. (Not all jobs have these listed.)

Not all usable support jobs are listed; the selection reflects the particular taste and knowledge/ignorance of this author, and by no means should be considered definitive.


Extra Jobs (Aht Urhgan)
These jobs can be unlocked only by players with Lv.30+ job and Treasure of Aht Urhgan expansion pack installed.

PUP ((Puppetmaster (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Puppetmaster)))
Suggested Lv: 20+
Role(s): Damage Dealer (physical or magical), Tank (very rare), Healer (Lv.40+), Solo'er.
Minimal SJ(s): /MNK
EXP SJ(s): /WAR (standard), /WHM (rare)
Description:
Like Summoner, much of a Puppetmaster's capability comes from its "pet", which is the Automaton in PUP's case. Unlike SMN's avatars, however, the Automaton has no unique enfeebs nor group buffs. In return, PUP itself can remain on the front line to contribute damage or even tank (with Automaton set to "cure bot") for a party. PUP is suitable as a non-skillchain physical DD, backup or primary healer (Lv.40+ with Soulsoother Head), or manaburn magic DD (Spiritreaver Head). Also a capable solo'er, nearly on par with BST, trading slower kill rate for lack of pet swap hassles.

Lv.20 is suggested, since that allows the player to acquire three out of four Automaton frame available. Sharpshot is a very capable DD frame, and is recommended for Lv.10 upgrade, with magic based Stormwaker for Lv.20. (The starter Harlequin frame is reasonably good for solo, though Stormwaker can do better.) Note that Automaton skills can be leveled while on /PUP, and it's a good idea to cap new frames' skills on higher level job first.

An Automaton without Attachments is useless. It takes a bit of research to figure out which combination of attachments, frame, and head would work the best, and quite a bit of gil to get the best attachments. On top of that, many PUP's have reported very slow invite rate, making this job unsuitable for players who do not like soloing at least some of the time. However, its reconfigurability makes it a worthy match for players willing to dedicate the effort and money, and comes with the fringe benefit of being the best support job (something/PUP) for soloing new Jobs to Lv.10. (It's also worth noting that every Attachment is usable from Lv.1--no one else can Flash from Lv.1 to Lv.36.)

COR ((Corsair (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Corsair)))
Suggested Lv: 23/40
Role(s): Support, Damage Dealer (mostly physical; second tier)
Minimal SJ(s): /WHM
EXP SJ(s): /RNG, /NIN, /WHM
Description:
COR is the premier support role Job for BLM manaburn parties, and for SMN, BST, DRG, and/or PUP based parties. Luck depending, it can rival or exceed BRD's buff'ing in traditional, balanced parties as well as TP spam parties, but less capable of pulling due to the inability to override existing rolls with the same ones. A COR's strength is at providing Job based enhancement, with unique buffs which stack with everything a BRD and/or RDM can offer. Where a COR loses out is in the debuffs, as it cannot do much besides dispel, sleep, and enhance debuffs (excluding songs) applied by others--all on a shared, one minute cool down timer. To balance that, COR contributes damages a support role RDM cannot match and a BRD cannot even dream of. Note that its Wild Card is arguably the powerful two-hour ability for any support role job--so much so, it's reported end-game LS's bring Lv.1 COR's to some fights just for Wild Card.

Lv.23 is the recommended level for those interested in checking out COR. By then, a player would have had access to both melee buff Phantom Rolls like Hunter's Roll (Lv.8) and Chaos Roll (Lv.14), a mage buff as in Healer's Roll (Lv.20), as well as its first pet buff Puppet Roll (Lv.23). Note that Quick Draw, COR's ability to enhance debuffs and sleep/dispel monsters, won't come until Lv.40, along with Evoker's Roll for refresh effect.

The dices are all available from NPC, so there really is no reason to be missing any Phantom Roll. Given its B rating in marksmanship, range accuracy gear and food should be standard for any COR. At very low levels, equip sword when able, until Archer's Knife. Elemental Cards and level appropriate bullet and gun are not optional; the consumable expenses will add up, but that's no excuse. Those players who wish to make good use out of /WHM are strongly urged consider MP gear and juices at lower levels.

BLU ((Blue Mage (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Blue_Mage)))
Suggested Lv: 30+
Role(s): Damage Dealer (physical and magical), Healer (rare), Tank (limited), Support (limited), Solo'er.
Minimal SJ(s): /WAR, or /WHM
EXP SJ(s): /NIN, /THF, /WHM (rare)
Specialty SJ(s): /WAR
Description:
Blue Mage is easily the most flexible Job in FFXI. A player can customize traits and spells to play BLU as an impressive damage dealer, competent healer, workable tank, or even helping the support role jobs with additional debuffs. Given its popularity and the crowd of players rushing to level this Job, it has a somewhat spotty reputation, and invite suffers slightly as a result.

Lv.30 is suggested. Wild Carrot (Lv.30), Healing Breaze (Lv.16), and Pollen (Lv.1) gives a plausible set of tools for a healer BLU, especially with /WHM as support jobs. For DD orientated players, this is when Sneak Attack from /THF becomes available. Those who wish to add a little support role already have plenty to choose from, such as Sprout Smack (Lv.4), Wild Oats (Lv.4), Head butt (Lv.12), and more. Tanking BLU should have plenty of chance to practice as well, since Cocoon (Lv.8) is available so early, though Bludgeon (Lv.18) for a quick enmity/damage spike comes a bit later.

BLU draws from a large list of Blue Magic spells mimicking monsters' and Beastmen's special attacks, and combine them to form traits and stat boosts. The Blue Magic spells are just as vital as any equipment in shaping a BLU's performance, and acquiring them is the top priority for every BLU player. Equipment wise, physical DD BLU's will want accuracy, and healer BLU will want MND. (INT and MAB subset for magic burst.) Blue Mages are still mages, so the usual lust for MP and hMP gear still applies.


Extra Jobs (Altana)
These jobs can be unlocked only by players with Lv.30+ job and Wings of the Goddess (アルタナの神兵) expansion pack installed.

DNC ((Dancer (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Dancer)))
Suggested Lv: ?
Role(s): Healer, Support
Minimal SJ(s): /NIN, /WHM (?)
EXP SJ(s): ?
Specialty SJ(s): ?
Description:
Dancer is very new to the scene. It requires TP for most dances, making it a front line job. Its best weapon is dagger, so that and accuracy gear/food is suggested for helping with TP generation. Dancer is for the adventurous players who would like to help define a new job's role.

SCH ((Scholar (http://ffxi.wikia.com/wiki/Scholar)))
Suggested Lv: ?
Role(s): Healer, Support, DD (magical)
Minimal SJ(s): ?
EXP SJ(s): ?
Specialty SJ(s): ?
Description:
Scholar is very new to the scene as well. It has both black magic, white magic, as well as unique spells. Those require significant MP, making it a back line job. It remains to be seen how its potency and MP saving job ability would function. Scholar is for the adventurous players who would like to help define a new job's role.

Which Job Should I Play?
(Part III: Additional Job Info)

BLM ((Black Mage)): FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Black_Mage), BG-Wiki (http://wiki.bluegartrls.com//Black_Mage), Dreams (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64281).
BLU ((Blue Mage)): FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Blue_Mage), BG-Wiki (http://wiki.bluegartrls.com//Blue_Mage), Allakhazam (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=16;mid=11459078628021325).
BRD ((Bard)): FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Bard), BG-Wiki (http://wiki.bluegartrls.com/Bard), Allakhazam (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=9;mid=11054108285884794;page=1).
BST ((Beastmaster)): FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Beastmaster), BG-Wiki (http://wiki.bluegartrls.com/Beastmaster), Allakhazam (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=8;mid=1146951284124507219;), Dreams (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/beastmaster-anthologies-395/).
COR ((Corsair)): FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Corsair), BG-Wiki (http://wiki.bluegartrls.com/Corsair).
DNC ((Dancer)): FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Dancer), BG-Wiki (http://wiki.bluegartrls.com/Dancer).
DRG ((Dragoon)): FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Dragoon), BG-Wiki (http://wiki.bluegartrls.com/Dragoon).
DRK ((Dark Knight)): FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Dark_Knight), BG-Wiki (http://wiki.bluegartrls.com/Dark_Knight), Allakhazam (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=6;mid=1110998736854383040).
NIN ((Ninja)): FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ninja), BG-Wiki (http://wiki.bluegartrls.com/Ninja), Allakhazam (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=12;mid=113580019243934087).
MNK ((Monk)): FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Monk), BG-Wiki (http://wiki.bluegartrls.com/Monk), Allakhazam (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=11;mid=1147011625124549237).
PLD ((Paladin)): [FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Paladin), BG-Wiki (http://wiki.bluegartrls.com/Paladin), Allakhazam (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=5;mid=1125608999160161842).
PUP ((Puppetmaster)): FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/), BG-Wiki (http://wiki.bluegartrls.com/), Allakhazam (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=18;mid=11617241019534788).
RDM ((Red Mage)): FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Red_Mage), BG-Wiki (http://wiki.bluegartrls.com/Red_Mage), Dreams (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/red-mage/63721-red-mage-index.html).
RNG ((Ranger)): FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ranger), BG-Wiki (http://wiki.bluegartrls.com/Ranger).
SAM ((Samurai)): FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Samurai), BG-Wiki (http://wiki.bluegartrls.com/Samurai).
SCH ((Scholar)): FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Scholar), BG-Wiki (http://wiki.bluegartrls.com/Scholar).
SMN ((Summoner)): FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Summoner), BG-Wiki (http://wiki.bluegartrls.com/Summoner).
THF ((Thief)): FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Thief), BG-Wiki (http://wiki.bluegartrls.com/Thief), Allakhazam (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=10;mid=1092011898117271927).
WAR ((Warrior)): FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Warrior), BG-Wiki (http://wiki.bluegartrls.com/Warrior), Allakhazam (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=4;mid=11631105817764503).
WHM ((White Mage)): FFXIclopedia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/White_Mage), BG-Wiki (http://wiki.bluegartrls.com/White_Mage), Allakhazam (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=1;mid=114166173035256614).


To Do's
- [Deferred] An "Off Beaten Path" section; maybe for "Pet Jobs", "Versatile Jobs", etc.
- [Done] Revise: COR and PUP to account for updates.
- [Done] Add: WotG jobs, SCH and DNC.
- [Done] Finish: Extra Jobs (Aht Urhgan)
- [Done] Finish: Extra Jobs (Zilart)
- [Done] Finish: Extra Jobs (Original)
- [Done] Add a "By Expense/Annoyance" section. Definitely list consumable users like RNG, COR, and NIN. Don't forget how troublesome it is to be a fully prepared SMN, either.
- [Done] Probably should address "Race vs. Job" question somewhere.


Credits
- (Nakti (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/126535-nakti.html)) WHM has Teleport spells!
- (Haggai (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/126517-haggai.html)) RoZ isn't actually needed for unlocking SMN.
- (Omgwtfbbqkitten (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/127167-omgwtfbbqkitten.html)) "Consumables" Jobs are expensive.
- (Omgwtfbbqkitten (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/127167-omgwtfbbqkitten.html)) RDM vs. BRD vs. COR comparision.
- (Feba (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/115810-feba.html)) Made me save an extra post for future expansion.
- (Amele (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/115547-amele.html)) PLD can DD, MNK uses /NIN, WHM uses /RDM, and BLM is Support(↘).
- (Amele (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/115547-amele.html)) English lesson: "Melees" is the correct plural form and "soloing" is a real word.
- (Vyuru (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/126616-vyuru.html)) DRG should have /SAM.
- (Vyuru (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/126616-vyuru.html), Omgwtfbbqkitten (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/127167-omgwtfbbqkitten.html)) DRG can use /RDM and /BLU.
- (Omgwtfbbqkitten (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/127167-omgwtfbbqkitten.html)) COR's Quick Draw cannot strengthen debuffs from Songs.
- (Amele (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/115547-amele.html)) WAR/SAM, BLM/NIN
- (Mosh (http://mosh-ifrit.livejournal.com/)) WAR/SAM, BLM/NIN, BRD can be puller earlier, SMNs don't have to do Prime fights for most Avatars.
- (Hongman (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/130667-hongman.html)) For demanding more clarity with support jobs listed with Red Mage.


Version History
- 2007.11.24 Added Part II: Extra Jobs (Altana)'s.
- 2007.11.24 Revised Part II: Extra Jobs (Zilart)'s formatting.
- 2007.11.22 Created Part III: Additional Job Info.
- 2007.11.22 Revised Part II: Extra Jobs (Original)'s formatting.
- 2007.11.22 Revised Part II: Standard Jobs' formatting.
- 2007.11.22 Revised and expanded Part I.
- 2007.09.20 Replaced FFXIclopedia links with ffxi.wikia.com/wiki.
- 2007.09.19 Clarified that SMN can obtain Avatars w/out Prime fights.
- 2007.09.19 Added /SAM for WAR, /NIN for BLM, BRD can pull earlier.
- 2007.07.01 COR's Quick Draw cannot enhance Song debuffs.
- 2007.05.25 Added /BLU and /RDM as DRG's alternative to /WHM.
- 2007.05.17 Added /SAM for DRG.
- 2007.05.17 Revised Dragoon entry; made more clear PLD can DD; MNK uses /NIN; WHM uses /RDM; and, BLM can be Support(↘).
- 2007.05 16 Completed "Extra Jobs (Aht Urghan)" section.
- 2007.05.16 Began work on "Extra Jobs (Aht Urghan)" section.
- 2007.05.11 Completed "Extra Jobs (Zilart)" section; reorganized into mutiple posts in a new thread.
- 2007.04.16 Began work on"Extra Jobs (Zilart)" section.
- 2007.04.12 Completed "Extra Jobs (Original)".
- 2007.04.12 Added the "Credits" section, revised WHM to include teleports.
- 2007.04.10 Major re-org; separated detail job descriptions into separate post.
- 2007.04.10 Added "The 'Vs.' FAQ's" section.
- 2007.04.10 Began guide; completed "Standard Jobs".

Content complete. (At last!)

Proof readers and constructive criticism wanted. >_>;

p.s. Can I have a sticky for this? ^_^;

Really nice guide. Thank you Ifritno^^

And nigh on impossible to come up with any way of improving it, let alone fault it.


For the sake of brainstorming though, how about a section within each Job detailing typical uses and demand (or lack of) outside of Exp-PT situtations. Mentioning for example that SMNs are generally highly sought-after at 30+ for Promies, NINs that make it to 40 have a wealth of BCNM options open to them, etc. etc.

Not a great suggestion but, egh.. I wanted to try. :)

Great guide, although you forgot /NIN as an RDM SJ.

recommendations:
1) put up arrows next to the dedicated DD (if this is meant to be about all level ranges, nin is a subpar DD until Blade: jin and later) also consider adding monk with a down arrow to tanking. (monk is an excellent tank with counterstance, and can get even better with shadows) consider adding PLD with a down arrow in the DD line as well.
2) with the (level dependent) tag, consider adding "whm" and "blm(down arrow)" to the fast invites list. - whm enjoys fast invites throughout all levels, only dipping from 41-56. blackmage enjoys fast invites until 55 and can continue to get decent invites well into the 70's.
3) misc. annoyances: add whm: abusive players with raise/teleport demands.
4) add /sam as a main support job for warrior (since this seems to be discussing level ranges including 70+ ) because of the built in 10% haste, which will further stack with rune chopper, this is the preferred g.axe sub at higher levels now.
5) if you're listing mnk/whm, you need to list mnk/nin too (most monks will spend much more time as mnk/nin than they ever will as mnk/whm at 75) it might be worth mentioning that mnk/whm is primarily only used for chi-blast rotations against certain nm's (and is also going out of style).
6) consider listing thf/rng, although this has been going out of style lately as well.
7) list redmage as a main support job for whitemage, post 64 whm may need /rdm to gain access to dispel for certain situations - particularly merits against mobs with strong stoneskin or defense up effects. consider changing 32 to 33 (reraise I ) since reraise is a major feature of the whitemage job. also consider mentioning enfeebling ability as a secondary role (since until 70+ whm enfeebles fine)
8) stone/stonega are the strongest spells at the level you get each one, and are better than water vs. crabs, or wind vs. puks (the next two spells in each tier) so until 70+ stone/stonega have their place, same as fire and aero, I'd recommend removing the line. also, consider adding /nin if we're talking about 75 (we seem to be, given that you listed /drk for rdm and /whm for monk). consider adding enfeebling as a secondary role for blm, since some of blm's mainline spells and several strong subspells are available to enfeeble the mob.
9) consider adding /sam as a 'main' subjob. while /war give more damage up traits, the seigan-shadows provide much better survivability, while sacrificing a smaller amount of damage output than /nin. consider adding /nin as well, (dual axe rampage, etc).
10) move /drg from minimal to main subjob for samurai unless you mean for minimal subjob to be specifically about sub-level 30. it's a good subjob but it's much more of an alternative play style once you leave the jungle.
11) make a note in the dragoon section that rdm works as a subjob choice as well (and consider adding sam also - again, 2 handed weapon wielder). this section also needs proofreading (I'll highlight issues at the bottom of my post, but leave the changes up to you since it's yours to reword).
overall, really nice guide, thumbs up.

Dragoon is probably the most devastating Damage Dealer below Lv.30, and does quite well as DD to Lv.75, especially when its Wyvern damage is accounted for. However, Dragoon's true distinction is its flexibility--it's one of the the only three melee-primary Jobs with curing ability, and it far outlasts PLD on sustained curing and can cure party members, unlike the PUP's Automaton. DRG's role in party is usually DD, though it can function as main healer (usu. Lv.40+). It is also possibly the one of two tanks which can solidly hold monster from damage and Provoke alone between Lv.10 to Lv.20. Look for THF in parties, as DRG's is terrific at opening Distortion for them. Outside of parties, DRG is a capable solo'er, nearly on par with PUP, and able to take on more type of monsters than SMN.
Recommend taking DRG to Lv.25, for Spirit Link (Lv.25), Jump (Lv.10), Call Wyvern (Lv.1), Attack Bonus (Lv.10), and Healing Breath II (Lv.20). BTW, it may be a little odd, but DRG/RNG is rather nice Lv.20 to Lv.29 if no healing is required.
DRG's share with other melee's the same love for accuracy, strength, and attack gears. (Solo'ing DRG may want a little more MP and defense, however.) Weapon wise, the Polearm is it, though some odd situations may make Staff attractive thanks to Spirit Taker.

the the is a doubled word, also not clear what sort of point this is trying to make.
and (phrase) and (phrase) needs either a semicolon: and (phrase); and (phrase) or serial commas: and, (phrase) and, (phrase).
the one of two.. is a duplicate article, consider either 'the tank', or 'one of two tanks' although I disagree with the premise of the point, since it can often require jump and short of pld invincible is always dependent on the whitemage and blackmage cooperating until level 30+
's is -> double is. remove either the 'is' or the ''s'.
solo'er : soloer is the correct Americanism of 'someone who solos' (it is not in fact a word, but English doesn't use apostrophes to separate lexical modifiers from the base word in any case.) likewise with solo'ing although soloing is in fact a word in this case.
Melees is simply plural, it's not possessive in this context.

Great guide, although you forgot /NIN as an RDM SJ. for soloing and special occasions yeah, but certainly not as a main SJ in exp parties

And /DRK is?

/drk is used frequently at 75 for all the events *outside* of exp. /nin is only ever used solo or screwing around with friends.

/drk belongs unless ifritnoitazura decides that this guide shouldn't actually include any references to how the game is handled at 75.

Wow. Thanks, Amele! (It'll take me a bit to go through everything you've posted, though. :wasted:)

recommendations:
1) put up arrows next to the dedicated DD (if this is meant to be about all level ranges,
I've thought about this, but there are just too many DD's, and I didn't want to get into the argument with anyone (even myself) about which DD's are the "true tier 1" DD's.

nin is a subpar DD until Blade: jin and later)
Not exactly, depending on the NIN's setup. NIN/RNG can be a pretty impressive range attacker once Juji Shuriken is available, and NIN40-60 is a nuker second to none with /RDM and /BLM. Haven't really investigated post Lv.60 NIN's DD potential, but my feeling that it's there.

also consider adding monk with a down arrow to tanking. (monk is an excellent tank with counterstance, and can get even better with shadows)
I haven't been very impressed with MNK tanking, preferring even PUP over them--at least PUP's bring their own cure bot. MNK's tanking performance seems to be strongly dependent on its extremely hard to cap Guard skill. I'm not sure if Counterstance is suitable for tanking anything above Even Match, and Utsusemi tanking isn't viable until Lv.74, isn't it?

I guess I can add MNK to tanking; it is doably on VT and lower, but I had a really bad experience with MNK tanking in Gustav Tunnel. (MNK x2 sharing tanking.) Seems like MNK tanking is easy to mess up.

BTW, I tried MNK/WAR tanking myself, but even with all the defense and VIT gear gathered up just for the purpose, I was an MP sink fighting Yhoator Mandragora on defense food. Definitely had no chance against Goblins.

consider adding PLD with a down arrow in the DD line as well.
Hmm. I didn't do that? That was an oversight. >_>;


2) with the (level dependent) tag, consider adding "whm" and "blm(down arrow)" to the fast invites list. - whm enjoys fast invites throughout all levels, only dipping from 41-56. blackmage enjoys fast invites until 55 and can continue to get decent invites well into the 70's.
WHM, maybe, but not BLM. That said, the difference between the number of unsolicited invites I've received between on popular jobs (PLD, NIN, and RDM) vs. WHM, is pretty large. I don't think my BLM gotten more than one unsolicited invite in 56 levels.

For now, I think it suffices to call WHM's invite rate "average", and DD's "often lower".

3) misc. annoyances: add whm: abusive players with raise/teleport demands.
Heh. I know some WHM are annoyed with that, but it's not an annoyance which significantly hinders progress. No on this. :P

Disclaimer: I am (was) a tele-taxi, so it's income to me rather than annoyance.


4) add /sam as a main support job for warrior (since this seems to be discussing level ranges including 70+ ) because of the built in 10% haste, which will further stack with rune chopper, this is the preferred g.axe sub at higher levels now.
Er, I don't know. I don't see many WAR/SAM's running around. Are they popular now in end game? Do HNM LS leaders ask WAR's to come as /SAM frequently?

5) if you're listing mnk/whm, you need to list mnk/nin too (most monks will spend much more time as mnk/nin than they ever will as mnk/whm at 75) it might be worth mentioning that mnk/whm is primarily only used for chi-blast rotations against certain nm's (and is also going out of style).
You're right; /NIN is popular enough for both DRK and MNK. Will fix that.

6) consider listing thf/rng, although this has been going out of style lately as well.
It was never in style. :biggrin:


7) list redmage as a main support job for whitemage, post 64 whm may need /rdm to gain access to dispel for certain situations - particularly merits against mobs with strong stoneskin or defense up effects. consider changing 32 to 33 (reraise I ) since reraise is a major feature of the whitemage job. also consider mentioning enfeebling ability as a secondary role (since until 70+ whm enfeebles fine)
Agree /RDM should be listed, but it's really for Fast Cast for speedy cures during special fights. (Most parties have a support role job with dispel of some sort.)

RR is nice, but doesn't alter the experience of WHM nearly as much as Erase or Haste. I'll stay on 32/40.

8) stone/stonega are the strongest spells at the level you get each one, and are better than water vs. crabs, or wind vs. puks (the next two spells in each tier) so until 70+ stone/stonega have their place, same as fire and aero, I'd recommend removing the line.
There aren't many monsters weak against Earth element, and neither Gravitation nor Scission is all that popular. That line of spell seems MP inefficient and of limited use. (The BLM75 in my LS made fun of my Quake purchase, and even I elected to skip Stonega II myself.)

also, consider adding /nin if we're talking about 75 (we seem to be, given that you listed /drk for rdm and /whm for monk). consider adding enfeebling as a secondary role for blm, since some of blm's mainline spells and several strong subspells are available to enfeeble the mob.
I'm a bit away from Lv.75, but do BLM's really use /NIN that much? Seems like /RDM and /WHM are much more popular.

As for enfeebling magic of BLM(C+) and WHM(C), I don't think much of them, especially after RDM gets Warlock's Tabard. Dia II and Sleepga II aside, they are mostly good for second chance enfeeb to catch something the RDM missed.

BLM's elemental enfeebs aren't too bad, but most BLM's I came across in exp parties don't bother with them. I'll have to say the non-JP community is limiting BLM to be DD, with JP community using it as DD/healer hybrid. Other than Sleep, BLM usually do not get involved much in a support role.

9) consider adding /sam as a 'main' subjob. while /war give more damage up traits, the seigan-shadows provide much better survivability, while sacrificing a smaller amount of damage output than /nin. consider adding /nin as well, (dual axe rampage, etc).
Which (main) job are you talking about?

10) move /drg from minimal to main subjob for samurai unless you mean for minimal subjob to be specifically about sub-level 30. it's a good subjob but it's much more of an alternative play style once you leave the jungle.

The "minimal" is what works up to the suggested level for trying out a job. /DRG is fine (it's great, actually) up to Lv.30, but not suitable for getting to Lv.75.

11) make a note in the dragoon section that rdm works as a subjob choice as well (and consider adding sam also - again, 2 handed weapon wielder). this section also needs proofreading (I'll highlight issues at the bottom of my post, but leave the changes up to you since it's yours to reword).
overall, really nice guide, thumbs up.
This is difficult. I know DRG/RDM is the better cure tank, but it lacks the -na spells which healers are expected to have. For soloing, -na spells can make a huge difference as well.

As much as I like DRG/RDM (which I've used myself), something tells me DRG/WHM and even DRG/NIN are much more popular. For the moment, this will be "no"...

Great guide, although you forgot /NIN as an RDM SJ.
I made the choice to leave it out, actually:
1. RDM/NIN isn't suitable for group activity.
2. RDM can solo on many, many different support jobs-- /NIN isn't strictly a necessity except for Avesta imitators.
3. RDM soloing is slow--as nice as it is to have the option, we're party creatures.

If I get enough protests, I'll change it. After all, I do have /NIN ready for my own RDM. :biggrin:

Edit:



solo'er : soloer is the correct Americanism of 'someone who solos' (it is not in fact a word, but English doesn't use apostrophes to separate lexical modifiers from the base word in any case.) likewise with solo'ing although soloing is in fact a word in this case.
Melees is simply plural, it's not possessive in this context
Heh. I didn't know melee is a real word. :rofl: Also didn't know that solo is a verb--thought it was adverb or adjective.

Dragoon section has been revised; hopefully it's more readable now.

Note: I deviate from standard English to clue myself in that "soloer" is not a real word by writing "solo'er" instead.

Common subjob in parties or not, /NIN is still a heavily used subjob for RDM, more common than any other subjob geared toward soloing.

(skippping parts I didn't feel a need to comment on, since I pretty much agree/accept your comments).
I've thought about this, but there are just too many DD's, and I didn't want to get into the argument with anyone (even myself) about which DD's are the "true tier 1" DD's. yeah, it might be simpler not to put any up arrows at all, although I wanted to distinguish that drg, drk, mnk, sam, rng, blm, war, thf, (the jobs that 'only' DD- I may have missed one) are superior DD to ninja, paladin, and summoner (in exp). I'd propose an up arrow next to all the jobs that have a primary role of "DD" whether they provide additional support or not. I agree it'd be a bad idea to try and 'tier' the melee, since it usually devolves into what gear you're willing to provide each job.


Not exactly, depending on the NIN's setup. NIN/RNG can be a pretty impressive range attacker once Juji Shuriken is available, and NIN40-60 is a nuker second to none with /RDM and /BLM. Haven't really investigated post Lv.60 NIN's DD potential, but my feeling that it's there.

yeah, I was making the assumption the nin would be nin/war. given the 'alternative' subs, I could see claiming a full rating for ninja


I haven't been very impressed with MNK tanking, preferring even PUP over them--at least PUP's bring their own cure bot. MNK's tanking performance seems to be strongly dependent on its extremely hard to cap Guard skill. I'm not sure if Counterstance is suitable for tanking anything above Even Match, and Utsusemi tanking isn't viable until Lv.74, isn't it?
I guess I can add MNK to tanking; it is doably on VT and lower, but I had a really bad experience with MNK tanking in Gustav Tunnel. (MNK x2 sharing tanking.) Seems like MNK tanking is easy to mess up.
BTW, I tried MNK/WAR tanking myself, but even with all the defense and VIT gear gathered up just for the purpose, I was an MP sink fighting Yhoator Mandragora on defense food. Definitely had no chance against Goblins.

I did chapters 7 and 8 of CoP with a pair of mnk tanks (sometimes /war, sometimes /nin) and used to duo the greater birds in Tavnazia mnk/nin+whm. it's very dependent on maximising counter and evasion.

it's not very good after dunes and before counterstance though (CS being.. 45? I think) and afterward is highly dependent on guard skill.


WHM, maybe, but not BLM. That said, the difference between the number of unsolicited invites I've received between on popular jobs (PLD, NIN, and RDM) vs. WHM, is pretty large. I don't think my BLM gotten more than one unsolicited invite in 56 levels.
For now, I think it suffices to call WHM's invite rate "average", and DD's "often lower".

pre-AU I had to go anon to avoid getting unsolicited invites, even at 75. (you're in the whitemage slump atm, if you keep your character tag up to date) post AU I get an invite within ten~ minutes of flagging up, without fail. I realize this is going to vary from server to server, but I could hardly call this rate 'average' (bards, redmages, relic wielding melee, adaberk+ridill wars are the only things that come to mind with notably faster invite rates than ~10 minutes).

Er, I don't know. I don't see many WAR/SAM's running around. Are they popular now in end game? Do HNM LS leaders ask WAR's to come as /SAM frequently? no and no, in both cases. but this has more to do with how broken rampage and ridill are than the utility of war/sam: when we have a war who wants to use a great axe come to an event, he is generally expected to come /sam.


Agree /RDM should be listed, but it's really for Fast Cast for speedy cures during special fights. (Most parties have a support role job with dispel of some sort.)

4 DD + brd + whm -> whm will want /rdm for dispel at several AU camps (trolls is the most obvious) because bard doesn't have time to dispel every mob that gets pulled due to long recast on finale and/or needing to stage pull.

fast cast is an 'ok' reason, but with 37% casting reduction available to a whitemage already (excluding marduk's stuff) it's hardly a compelling reason to level the sub. although particular reasons aren't as important in a fast overview, since we seem to agree it should be included either way.
(The BLM75 in my LS made fun of my Quake purchase, and even I elected to skip Stonega II myself.)

I make fun of blm's who purchase -any- ancient magic in the days of AMII. although I could see an argument for Freeze and Burst still. I agree they're not as useful but they're not any more or less efficient (assuming neutral mob resistance) than any of the other nukes on the way up.

I'm a bit away from Lv.75, but do BLM's really use /NIN that much? Seems like /RDM and /WHM are much more popular.

it's about as common as pld/whm as far as I can tell. (/rdm and /whm are *much* more popular) has some merit in situations where you might not have a 'real' tank - low man limbus/salvage/ some assaults / etc.

[qoute]As for enfeebling magic of BLM(C+) and WHM(C), I don't think much of them, especially after RDM gets Warlock's Tabard. Dia II and Sleepga II aside, they are mostly good for second chance enfeeb to catch something the RDM missed.[/quote]

I can't speak too much for blm, but whitemage can hit 298 enfeebling if they take the time to collect all the gear (260~ before merits might be a better goal) and merit it to 8/8. this is enough to handle main enfeebling for all but the beefiest of NM's (since this is A+ skill equivalent for something like level 78 iirc).

Which (main) job are you talking about? my mistake, was dark knight. (dual axe rampage, etc).

The "minimal" is what works up to the suggested level for trying out a job. /DRG is fine (it's great, actually) up to Lv.30, but not suitable for getting to Lv.75. ah, ok, yeah. total agreement with placements then.

This is difficult. I know DRG/RDM is the better cure tank, but it lacks the -na spells which healers are expected to have. For soloing, -na spells can make a huge difference as well. drg/rdm makes a much better support healer than drg/whm, which is why I suggested making a note, although anyone who is serious about the job will find that out from the dragoon specific forums probably, so maybe not as necessary.


Heh. I didn't know melee is a real word. :rofl: Also didn't know that solo is a verb--thought it was adverb or adjective. solo is a verb, Melee as a noun is not, hence why I capitalized it :)

the revision looks good :)

drg/rdm makes a much better support healer than drg/whm, which is why I suggested making a note, although anyone who is serious about the job will find that out from the dragoon specific forums probably, so maybe not as necessary.

Explain, please.

No status cures.
No divine seal.
Poison for 5 MP under /RDM
Dia for 7 MP under /WHM.
Power Attack for 5 MP under /BLU.

Power Attack casts more quickly than both, same cost as Poison, making Power Attack easily the best Healing Breath trigger in the game.

/BLU notwithstanding, /WHM is the better healer sub unless BLU and RDM got -na spells when we weren't looking.

I still feel /NIN should be there. Its a large part of a lot of RDM's lives.

Not so sure about the "Avesta imitators" bit, kinda lame.

Explain, please.
No status cures.
No divine seal.
Poison for 5 MP under /RDM
Dia for 7 MP under /WHM.
Power Attack for 5 MP under /BLU.
Power Attack casts more quickly than both, same cost as Poison, making Power Attack easily the best Healing Breath trigger in the game.
/BLU notwithstanding, /WHM is the better healer sub unless BLU and RDM got -na spells when we weren't looking.

dispel. which rarely gets resisted. hence the phrase 'support' healer.
each point of mp is also significant when discussing ethereal dragoons.

/rdm also gives fast cast, so I doubt that power attack is in fact the fastest spell.

I was just wondering if there was a reason not to list BLU as tank as well ... it can be fairly effective as one, I think, given Cocoon's +50% def boost.

drg/rdm makes a much better support healer than drg/whm

Explain, please.

No status cures.
No divine seal.


Hm, how do you qoute someone's name in there?

We'll assume a mithra lvl 75 drg/whm and drg/rdm, stats swiped from this site:

http://www.datasync.com/~dsmith/FFXIStats/

Anywho, most likely you will be using barelement spells on yourself to trigger Healing Breath (HB), so we'll say rdm is 6 mp. Whm will probably be using Dia and Poisona as the cheapest and fastest casting spells, you could use Cure, but that takes a little longer to cast and you may risk putting someone over the HB threshold and negating your HB.

Rdm has access to lots of barelement spells that have a .5 second casting time for 6 mp.

Whm will use Dia (7mp) and probably Poisona (8mp) there are other spells they could use for less mp, say Paralyze, but that takes too long to cast, and as such will not be considered.

Now then, stats for lvl 75 drg/rdm:

Level HP MP STR DEX VIT AGI INT MND CHA

75 1195 118 65 70 62 67 59 59 60

Stats for lvl 75 drg/whm:

Level HP MP STR DEX VIT AGI INT MND CHA

75 1177 137 65 68 63 67 56 61 62

Stats for a lvl 75 drg/blu

Level HP MP STR DEX VIT AGI INT MND CHA

75 1195 118 64 69 62 67 56 56 59

Drg/rdm has 118mp = drg/blu

Drg/whm has 137mp

Assuming that they will be alternating between two spells (barfire/baraero for /rdm, dia/poisona for /whm)

Rdm: 118/6= 19 Healing Breaths, rounded down

Whm: Alternating Dia/Poisona nets /whm 17 Healing Breaths

If they only needed to use one spell, rdm would use Poison, and whm would use Dia, in which case:

Rdm: 118/5 = 23 Healing Breaths

Whm: 137/7 = 19 Healing Breaths

Whm has more MP, but Rdm has more MP efficient spells to cast, and pulls ahead of whm in the Healing Breath department.

Now, as far as useful spells go.....

Curaga caps at 90hp and Curaga II caps at 180hp correct?

Curaga costs 60 mp to cast, Curaga II costs 120mp. Add in Divine Seal and Curaga gives back 180hp for 60mp and Curaga II gives back 360hp for 120mp.

Now 120mp at lvl 75 is about 87% of your base mana pool, are you really going to be tossing those out there? Or will you be using your MP for Healing Breaths? Pair a whm with a drg/mage, have the whm use highest lvl Regen and focus on main tank healing while drg uses Healing Breaths to keep the hp up for the other party members and the tank, it's pretty powerful. Dragoon/Blue Mage has the same mp as /rdm, and it has more spells that can be cast for 5mp, particularily Power Attack and Foot Kick. In the case of spamming HB spells /blue mage pulls ahead of /rdm, but in the case of being able to wait for recast timers, they are the same. Also, Red Mage's Barelement spells all are .5 second casting time, equal to Foot Kick and Power Attack's casting times. However Red Mage gains Fast Cast traits, which shorten the .5second casting time further so they actually cast faster than blue mage spells.

It's been awhile since I last soloed, but I think Lumiere's Healing Breaths were giving back 240ish hp, and I'm at lvl 69 dragoon.

The status ~na spell line you should not be casting. Inefficient for Healing Breaths, your WS will take care of some of them, and the whm can handle those. A drg/mage's job in a exp party 90% of the time is to provide backup healing, you do not do that with spells that can cost up to 60 mp, although you'd probably be using Paralyna (12mp) or Poisona (8mp) more often than not, but that is using up a significant portion of your mp, and some of these have casting times of 3 seconds. Keep in mind it takes your wyvern an additional 3 seconds to ready and use Healing Breath, which makes the delay 6 seconds or slightly longer from the start of your casting to the use of Healing Breath.

So all and all, I think rdm is still the best exp party support job for backup healing.


EDIT:

Forgot to add:

Using Divine Seal + Curaga II as an example.

DS+Curaga II for 360hp(6 party members) = 2,160 hp for 120 mp and 4.75 second casting time

120mp/6 = 20 Healing Breaths(240hp/HB) = 4,800 hp for 120 mp and about 3.5 seconds/HB about 70 seconds total

If using Poison as the trigger you can get another 4 Healing Breaths and an extra 800hp for a total of 5,600hp back, which is more than double what DS+Curaga II does to a FULL party. In all honesty I am being very generous with DS+CuragaII because not all members may be in range, or they may not have lost 360hp, in which case the total for DS+Curaga II is even lower.

Healing Breaths will always hit the person that has the lowest % health, unless they are out of spell casting range, since a drg/mage will be engaged with the mob and will be next to all the melees, and the mages tend to stand within spell casting range this is an unlikely event.

dispel. which rarely gets resisted. hence the phrase 'support' healer.
each point of mp is also significant when discussing ethereal dragoons.

That's pretty weak support considering other jobs would probably be present to dispel, possibly without even spending MP. Main healers, on the other hand, generally appreciate people covering status removal spells so they can reserve their MP for curing. You're not doing a RDM any favors by doing Dispel, but a RDM main healer you'd be doing a world of good by covering Erase and -na spells for them.

/rdm also gives fast cast, so I doubt that power attack is in fact the fastest spell.

Power attack is faster than Poison. Better yet, colibri can't reflect it.

Quote:
/rdm also gives fast cast, so I doubt that power attack is in fact the fastest spell.

Power attack is faster than Poison. Better yet, colibri can't reflect it.


You may have missed my post above, but:

Fast Cast + Baraero is faster than Power Attack, and Colibri can't reflect that either.

but a RDM main healer you'd be doing a world of good by covering Erase and -na spells for them.


That takes up far too much of a drg/mage's mp pool to actually be feasible, we have a very limited mana pool. The melee may just have to sit there with the status effects until they wear off if that is the case, well, exception being DS+Erase, but that is once every 10 minutes, so that's kinda meh.

That takes up far too much of a drg/mage's mp pool to actually be feasible,

BRDs do it, why can't DRGs? BRDs are actually busier than DRGs in EXP PTs and have roughly just as much MP to play with under /WHM to remove status cures with. A refreshed DRG could easily cover -na and erase like a good BRD/WHM would.

Perhaps we never learned how to /WHM effectively?

Still not convinced /RDM is better.

Enspells COST more than poison, dia or power attack and are not faster in casting than any of them. That's just using MP poorly for DRG.

A healer DRG shouldn't need a lot of MP to do anything, nor should they be blowing lots of it to cure people.

BRDs do it, why can't DRGs? BRDs are actually busier than DRGs in EXP PTs and have roughly just as much MP to play with under /WHM to remove status cures with. A refreshed DRG could easily cover -na and erase like a good BRD/WHM would.
Perhaps we never learned how to /WHM effectively?
Still not convinced /RDM is better.
Enspells COST more than poison, dia or power attack and are not faster in casting than any of them. That's just using MP poorly for DRG.
A healer DRG shouldn't need a lot of MP to do anything, nor should they be blowing lots of it to cure people.

uh hi2u ballad II >.>

bards have alot more mp to play with since you can't exactly put ballad on drg/mage.

also, who said anything about enspells?

For the sake of brainstorming though, how about a section within each Job detailing typical uses and demand (or lack of) outside of Exp-PT situtations.
I do mention exp party popularity (or lack of) in the By Annoyance/Expense section. Typical use is described in the first paragraph for each job--that's where I try to give reader a very rough impression of what playing the job is like.

While each job can be better described, there's just no room for that. As is, my guide is already way too long. :P

Mentioning for example that SMNs are generally highly sought-after at 30+ for Promies, NINs that make it to 40 have a wealth of BCNM options open to them, etc. etc.
Keep in mind that I don't play every job (e.g. SMN Lv.1!). That kind guidance would better from career job players who keeps a close tab on his/her community.

Not a great suggestion but, egh.. I wanted to try. :) Heh. They are not bad suggestions per se, but too detailed for my guide, and the last one is outside of my expertise.

I did chapters 7 and 8 of CoP with a pair of mnk tanks (sometimes /war, sometimes /nin) and used to duo the greater birds in Tavnazia mnk/nin+whm. it's very dependent on maximising counter and evasion.

Hmm. My criteria for tanking is able to tank Lv.10-72 in exp party, and reasonably able to tank most NM's and special fights at the same levels other tanks are able to do. To be a Tank(↘), a Job doesn't have to be the most efficient, but the player's party must be given a reasonable chance at chaining at least VT's, and special fights shouldn't be a dice toss with "lesser" tanks.

I don't see MNK's doing that. Maybe they are able, but I want to hear from MNK tanks explaining how's and why's before I add them as Tanks.


Re: White Mage's invite rate

Support, Tanks = fast invites.
Most DD's = slower invites.
Pet jobs = very slow invites.

White Mage is between "fast invites" and "slower invites", so it gets stuck with "average" label from me. It's not a bad label, really. :P


Re: Stone/Stonega spells
I agree they're not as useful but they're not any more or less efficient (assuming neutral mob resistance) than any of the other nukes on the way up.
Well, I didn't say "Don't get those"; it's more like "I'm not entirely sure if they are good values." Once Stonega II comes down in price, maybe I'll remove that line. :rofl:


Re: BLM using /NIN
it's about as common as pld/whm as far as I can tell. (/rdm and /whm are *much* more popular) has some merit in situations where you might not have a 'real' tank - low man limbus/salvage/ some assaults / etc.

Let me clarify why I included /WHM in parenthesis; PLD is sometimes called upon to be a healer (I've seen this in JP parties), and /WHM is the best support job for that role. By no means does /WHM compare with /WAR and /NIN.

There's no similar situation for BLM with /NIN, as far as I can tell, though it is good for a BLM with plenty of MP and hMP, and can be used to lower resistance for nukes using the Ichi line of elemental Ninjutsu enfeebs.

I can't speak too much for blm, but whitemage can hit 298 enfeebling if they take the time to collect all the gear (260~ before merits might be a better goal) and merit it to 8/8. this is enough to handle main enfeebling for all but the beefiest of NM's (since this is A+ skill equivalent for something like level 78 iirc).
Not saying WHM can't; it's just not expected of them to be major enfeebler. It's not needed, either, with the number of RDM75's I see running around. BTW, the role targed is support, not enfeebler.

Correction: I did have WHM as Support(↘). Since BLM is actually higher in Enfeebling (C+ vs. C), I'll add BLM.

drg/rdm makes a much better support healer than drg/whm, which is why I suggested making a note, although anyone who is serious about the job will find that out from the dragoon specific forums probably, so maybe not as necessary.
I really do like DRG/RDM, but it is just a more specialized version of DRG/WHM for a niche role which isn't greatly in demand outside of solo'ing and small parties. =/ Despite the length of the guide, I very to avoid the "everything and the kitchen sink" attitude, so /WHM with its more versatile arsenal stays in the guide, but no /RDM. Sorry...


I was just wondering if there was a reason not to list BLU as tank as well ... it can be fairly effective as one, I think, given Cocoon's +50% def boost.
I've seen BLU tanking well in Qufim levels. Not very sure about its enmity capability before Bludgeon (Lv.18), though. If there's reasonable testimony reporting BLU's have tanked well for the majority of Lv.10 to Lv.72 interval (VT is ok, IT would be nice), I'll add it to the first post. (I do mention it can be a low level tank in its own description, I think.)


I still feel /NIN should be there. Its a large part of a lot of RDM's lives.
I've clarified what "Main Support Job(s)" means:

Note that Jobs aren't very distinctive from one another at lower levels; many melee jobs especially suffer from that. That's why a "Suggested Lv." is given for each Job--how far to take a Job in order to get a feel for how it would be like later on.

The "Minimal Support Job(s)" are just the subjob(s) needed to reach the suggested levels; if taking the job to 75, likely others would be needed. (The major support job for each is listed under "Main Support Job(s)", and they are needed for exp'ing and/or end game.)

Again, for RDM, /NIN isn't needed for leveling. It's not wanted for group work. It's not even needed for most solo work. (BTW, My sister and I both use RDM/BLM for most solo'ing. Do I use RDM/NIN at all? Sure; did a lot of Dagger skill up on that last week--without using Utsusemi--in no way was I depedent on what /NIN provided--just wanted Dual Wield for faster skill up.)

No argument that RDM/NIN is a powerful combination for doing certain things--sometimes, the only combination. It can be a "large part" of one's RDM career--for those who want to challenge themselves going toe-to-toe against monsters as tanks or solo. But, is that really what most RDM do on a regular basis? Or, is what they try to accomplish can be done having someone else tank? Or solo by kite/sleep and nuke?

Another way of looking at it: the Red Mage forum is one of the most popular job forum here, and I only have two people who think /NIN should be included so far.

If the number of 'yay' outnumber 'nay' by five, I'll add RDM/NIN. How's that?

Not so sure about the "Avesta imitators" bit, kinda lame. It's a joke? I made fun of myself for saying it's not a "major support job" (under my own definition), yet I have it? Obviously I'm no Avesta... >_>;

I really should get out of the comedy business.

Hm, how do you qoute someone's name in there?

Hit the "Quote" button under someone's post, then look at the stuff in the [quote= ... ] tag. :thumbsup:

Hit the "Quote" button under someone's post, then look at the stuff in the [quote= ... ] tag.


Ahh thankee

I do mention exp party popularity (or lack of) in the By Annoyance/Expense section. Typical use is described in the first paragraph for each job--that's where I try to give reader a very rough impression of what playing the job is like.


I think that you should stick with that. This guide is a very good kind of general description of each job and what to expect, new players can read this and then move on to the actual job forums for more detailed information.

Reading over your faq, just a few things I'd like to mention:

Ninja vs. Paladin?
Which is better? The answer is: Yes.

You might want to mention that paladins typically have a more solid grasp on hate than ninjas, but that can be rather dependant on the party setup, players, and a bit of luck. I do think in general, with two players of equal skill and all that, the pld will have better, or perhaps I should say more solid hate control on the IT mobs for a very long portion of the game. VT mobs seem to be more where ninjas really seem to shine, and yes I realise I'm painting with a broad brush here.

Warrior section:

You might want to bring up war/drg from levels 20-29. You pick up Attack Bonus, and Jump at level 20 war/drg. Warriors get Attack Bonus at level 30, so that is 10 levels early, and Jump is nice for damage/TP gain. This is assuming that you are not tanking though. For job traits/abilities I think /drg is probably the best for warrior in that level range.

Dragoon section:

I'd extend the tanking through damage and Provoke from Lv.10 to Lv.30, the Platoon Lance is just an incredibly powerful weapon for it's level, that you actually may have to be a bit carefull with unless you want to be tanking.

I'd also add /sam into the Main Support Job section for Dragoon. I've been able to exp a little more as drg/sam and while I haven't run any parsers, I must say that my impression is that my damage output is higher than /war, or at least equal to it, and I do not draw hate anywhere near as much anymore. When I do, there is always Third Eye and very soon to be Seigan+Third Eye. Only problem is that I don't see this combo working until at least level 50 when you get Hasso, which I think I would take over Berserk and Double Attack because that should be enough +accuracy, with other gear of course, to let you eat meat dishes, which I think is preferable to using Berserk.

Funny thing, I just now realised that this wasn't a continuation of the original "Which Job Should I Play" thread ^.^;

Very nice guide IfritnoItazura ^^

Warrior section:

You might want to bring up war/drg from levels 20-29. You pick up Attack Bonus, and Jump at level 20 war/drg. Warriors get Attack Bonus at level 30, so that is 10 levels early, and Jump is nice for damage/TP gain. This is assuming that you are not tanking though. For job traits/abilities I think /drg is probably the best for warrior in that level range.

While /DRG is great for DD purposes, WAR is very often expected to tank in those levels. Plus, the suggest trial level is 25, so if I list /DRG in the "Minimal" part, it would only be good for 5 levels. ^_^;

Dragoon section:

I'd extend the tanking through damage and Provoke from Lv.10 to Lv.30, the Platoon Lance is just an incredibly powerful weapon for it's level, that you actually may have to be a bit carefull with unless you want to be tanking.

While I don't know the exact cut off, tanking on damage and Provoke alone gets dicy somewhere in the Qufim levels. (The trend actually starts arond Lv.15, when WAR's get Berserk, DRK's get Last Resort, and THF's get Sneak Attack.) Smartly geared THF's spike damage is just too much to handle, and DRG's armor will start to fall behind WAR's and PLD's starting with Chainmail set (Lv.24), and further behind with the Eisen/Kampf set (Lv.29).

I do have fond memory of that Platoon Lance, though. I think I even kept it, just in case I ever need to help a LS newbie with the Dragon (City Mission) fight. ^___________^

I'd also add /sam into the Main Support Job section for Dragoon. I've been able to exp a little more as drg/sam and while I haven't run any parsers, I must say that my impression is that my damage output is higher than /war, or at least equal to it, and I do not draw hate anywhere near as much anymore. When I do, there is always Third Eye and very soon to be Seigan+Third Eye. Only problem is that I don't see this combo working until at least level 50 when you get Hasso, which I think I would take over Berserk and Double Attack because that should be enough +accuracy, with other gear of course, to let you eat meat dishes, which I think is preferable to using Berserk.
While I don't see /SAM as "you have to have it!" for Hasso or even Seigan, I do remember reading DRG's sulking about being stuck with "swap in for Spirit Within) for HNM and/or other end game situations. >_>; While that was way before the change to DRG two-hour ability, I'll add /SAM.

(Do run some parsers, especially if you have a static party. It'd be good to have quantitative evidence on which is the better general DD support job for DRG's.)

Funny thing, I just now realised that this wasn't a continuation of the original "Which Job Should I Play" thread ^.^;
Believe it or not, I'm so wordy, I ran out of room in the original posts--the site's software just won't let me add more letters.

._.

uh hi2u ballad II >.>

bards have alot more mp to play with since you can't exactly put ballad on drg/mage.

BRDs only have Ballad on themselves half the time and, again, are generally busier than DRGs, if there's an MP heavy frontline (and I seldom see a DRG w/o a PLD far off) the frontline can easily get Ballad/Evoker's. You're not generally going to have BRD or COR+ RDM in the same PT, so the BRD or COR has to refresh the frontline, they have no choice if there's no RDM. Its actually easier for a COR since they can occasionally double up for the frontline if the backline gets a 5 (pretty common).

So I gotta call BS on this statement, because seldom do I ever leave a BLU, PLD, DRG/Mage or DRK hanging. BRD can do that same.

Oh, and that whole sanction thing. If you're going /mage, kinda best you also bring your own refresh to begin with. And seasoned mage, DRK, BLU or PLD would already know this.

also, who said anything about enspells?

I misread, but even then Bar-spells are a waste of MP for the sake of a fast trigger.

BRDs only have Ballad on themselves half the time and, again, are generally busier than DRGs, if there's an MP heavy frontline (and I seldom see a DRG w/o a PLD far off) the frontline can easily get Ballad/Evoker's. You're not generally going to have BRD or COR+ RDM in the same PT, so the BRD or COR has to refresh the frontline, they have no choice if there's no RDM. Its actually easier for a COR since they can occasionally double up for the frontline if the backline gets a 5 (pretty common).
So I gotta call BS on this statement, because seldom do I ever leave a BLU, PLD, DRG/Mage or DRK hanging. BRD can do that same.
Oh, and that whole sanction thing. If you're going /mage, kinda best you also bring your own refresh to begin with. And seasoned mage, DRK, BLU or PLD would already know this.
I misread, but even then Bar-spells are a waste of MP for the sake of a fast trigger.

First, our definition of busy is pretty different I think. Dragoon is busy killing stuff faster, and every spell he casts (especially curaga hah) is going to directly reduce how quickly that next mob is killed.

If the bard does it, it (should be) because he's already staged the next one and finished his songs - so he is, quite literally, not busy at the time.


If you really think that a dragoon wants to see ballad from a bard over march/mad/minuet in some combination, you're nuts. That said, if the pt really has 3 front line mp users, go for it if they care that much about their mp. (Pld has auto-refresh at 2/tick in AU, dark has A+ dark magic and aspir. etc, so I think it unlikely they'll want ballad.)

A skilled bard will have ballad as much as their back line healer does, minus the 10 second travel+cast time after doing the mad+march for the front line. That's much more than 'half time'.

Sanction should apply equally to the bard, so I don't know why you even mention it as a way for the dragoon to close the ballad gap.

As for not generally seeing a bard or cor and rdm in the same pt, you have some strange pt standards on your server.

All of the above is even more true when you do have a redmage in the pt (the gap for the bard and the dragoon is the same, especially since there's *no way in hell* that the drg is gonna want 6mp/tick over real songs.)

Barspells are a waste of mp? Baraero costs 6. hardly 'too expensive'.

Re: White Mage's invite rate

Support, Tanks = fast invites.
Most DD's = slower invites.
Pet jobs = very slow invites.

White Mage is between "fast invites" and "slower invites", so it gets stuck with "average" label from me. It's not a bad label, really.

I guess my confusion stemmed from how you were using average. (since if you were to actually take average seek times, whitemage is pretty far above it.) I would probably agree that whitemage is close to median seek times at 75, (pre 50 it's as fast as redmage, and pre 41 it's the fastest invite of all save maybe tanks, hence my reasoning for why it should probably be listed as a faster invite.) the confusion also stems from not being sure how much we're talking about 75 vs. exp.

Let me clarify why I included /WHM in parenthesis; PLD is sometimes called upon to be a healer (I've seen this in JP parties), and /WHM is the best support job for that role. By no means does /WHM compare with /WAR and /NIN.

There's no similar situation for BLM with /NIN, as far as I can tell, though it is good for a BLM with plenty of MP and hMP, and can be used to lower resistance for nukes using the Ichi line of elemental Ninjutsu enfeebs.

you did, however, include /drk for rdm, which is used exclusively for events (basically the same as blm/nin) which is why I mentioned it, it's very much a subpar exp sub.

Not saying WHM can't; it's just not expected of them to be major enfeebler. It's not needed, either, with the number of RDM75's I see running around. BTW, the role targed is support, not enfeebler. oh. lol. yeah I meant that enfeebling should be mentioned -in the text- of whitemage and blackmage, I agree that blm shouldn't be on the support list (whitemage should be because of -ra spells and haste)

I really do like DRG/RDM, but it is just a more specialized version of DRG/WHM for a niche role which isn't greatly in demand outside of solo'ing and small parties. =/ Despite the length of the guide, I very to avoid the "everything and the kitchen sink" attitude, so /WHM with its more versatile arsenal stays in the guide, but no /RDM. Sorry... I'll defer to Vyuru here, since (s)he's the actual dragoon. all I know is that every dragoon I've played with prefers redmage for fast cast barspell over whm (I realize you get -na spells, outside of solo-trio a drg shouldn't really need them to support the pt.)

To be a Tank(↘), a Job doesn't have to be the most efficient, but the player's party must be given a reasonable chance at chaining at least VT's, and special fights shouldn't be a dice toss with "lesser" tanks.

war/mnk is a tank out to 72, and mnk/war is the same job ability list, more hp, more vit, and with better damage mitigation (counterstance isn't available subbed) I guess I don't see what the issue is, unless you don't really consider war/mnk a tank - also, you listed pup(arrow) and frankly, I have a hard time believing that the automaton really tanks better than a monk could, except that the automaton isn't a party member (you could make an argument for bst tank if you allowed an EM pet, for instance.)

as for chaining VT, I can do that on my sam/war as solo tank in the 40's and 50's (before enmity gear, scorpion harness, etc. etc.) so I'd have no reason to think that monk couldn't do it at earlier levels (see also: duo chaining IT birds at 75 mnk/war + whm) so I've got direct experience with monk tanks pre-30 and post 70, and anecdotal evidence that mnk should work in between. basically - I think it should get a down arrow because monk *can* tank, if the monk wishes to. (especially for events)

I guess maybe some of the confusion is that I'm not certain how much endgame and events should be in consideration for what to list, and how much this is just (pre-merit) exp.

While I don't know the exact cut off, tanking on damage and Provoke alone gets dicy somewhere in the Qufim levels.

The cutoff is more or less on crabs I think, pugils and goblins and all the other nasties either tend to hit too hard or have very nasty TP attacks. However if the dragoon is a level or two above the level when people normally first start exping on those monsters you could probably tank them. I'm not sure how +def food would affect this because most of my tanking as drg in these levels was either by accident or because the tank died/things went bad. Mandragora might be possible to tank as drg, I tanked them at about lvl 28/29 in Yhoarter with +def food and the Brass Scale Mail set. Goblins are a big nono though for drg tanking.

While I don't see /SAM as "you have to have it!" for Hasso or even Seigan

It's not so much as you have to have it, but Hasso and Meditate offer very comparable numbers to Double Attack and Berserk, however Samurai doesn't really fully come into play until, lvl 50 at least, lvl 60 for sure. This is more of an endgame exp sub much like Thief is.

Not saying WHM can't; it's just not expected of them to be major enfeebler.

It's not, but there are some enfeebles whose potency is related to Mind, and some enfeebles whose potency is related to Intelligence. A Rdm may be able to stick an enfeeblement easier on a mob due to a higher enfeebling skill, but a Whm or Blm may actually have stronger enfeebles than a Rdm does. It's been too long since I last really played Rdm though so I don't remember all the details and just how Mnd/Int/Enfeebling skill contributes to the enfeeblement landing and potency.

I'll defer to Vyuru here, since (s)he's the actual dragoon. all I know is that every dragoon I've played with prefers redmage for fast cast barspell over whm

It's not so much for the fast cast + barspell, it's more for the fact that while /rdm has a smaller manapool than /whm does, /rdm has more spells that don't cost alot of mp that not only can be spammed if needed but you wind up being able to use more Healing Breaths than with /whm.

The drg/whm vs drg/rdm and drg/mage in a party discussion might be best continued in the drg forum however, if IfritnoItazura has no problems with it being held here I've got a few things to say, otherwise I think we should move it to the Dragoon forums if you guys want to continue it.

And as far as monk tanks go, I have never seen one in action, but I do know that it can be done and done rather well from what I have heard, and in fact a LS friend of mine has his, lvl 30-36ish I think, monk setup for tanking. Once this quarter is over I'll see if I can exp with him, or else get him to post here :P

It's not, but there are some enfeebles whose potency is related to Mind, and some enfeebles whose potency is related to Intelligence. A Rdm may be able to stick an enfeeblement easier on a mob due to a higher enfeebling skill, but a Whm or Blm may actually have stronger enfeebles than a Rdm does. It's been too long since I last really played Rdm though so I don't remember all the details and just how Mnd/Int/Enfeebling skill contributes to the enfeeblement landing and potency.

I can help: enfeebling skill is just accuracy (i.e. resist rate) and likelihood of interruption. MND is potency for white magic debuffs, INT is potency for black magic debuffs.

the general rule of thumb is to stack just as much enfeebling skill as you need to consistently land the spell in question, and then load mnd or int into the other slots.

( I don't remember off hand if MAB has any effect on enfeebling, I suspect it doesn't but I wouldn't make a bet either way.)

The drg/whm vs drg/rdm and drg/mage in a party discussion might be best continued in the drg forum however, if IfritnoItazura has no problems with it being held here I've got a few things to say, otherwise I think we should move it to the Dragoon forums if you guys want to continue it.

I don't mind at all; this way I don't have to go to multiple places to track this issue. :thumbsup:

For MNK tanking, I'm told that it works (here and in my LS), and that MNK were often used as a tank before PLD. Still, everytime I see it in action, it sucked unless the player is many level above the monster. None of the LS MNK's seem to be inclined to tank, either.

I can see Counterstance work with Utusemi: Ni + Ichi, especially with a strong Trick Attack at the at the start of every fight, or if fighting pots or skeletons.

Inputs from tanking MNK's at this point would be really helpful...

I don't mind at all; this way I don't have to go to multiple places to track this issue.


Ok, I'll get into it then ;)

Oh, and once I hit level 72 I will run a parser test between drg/war and drg/sam. At that point I have access to gear that I think would be optimal for both jobs. Since I don't have a static party I'll probably just cancel any important buffs that may sway the numbers. Keep in mind though I have alot of Assaults to do before I have that gear, so it may take me awhile to get there.

This may take me a little while to write up, so give me a bit. I need to do some research on mob TP moves and stuff.

I guess my confusion stemmed from how you were using average. (since if you were to actually take average seek times, whitemage is pretty far above it.) I would probably agree that whitemage is close to median seek times at 75, (pre 50 it's as fast as redmage, and pre 41 it's the fastest invite of all save maybe tanks, hence my reasoning for why it should probably be listed as a faster invite.) the confusion also stems from not being sure how much we're talking about 75 vs. exp.

I guess I'm shaped by personal experience; I got more unsolicited invites on RDM than WHM, before Lv.41. >_>; NIN was even more popular, though, between 37 to 41.

Even now, whenever I hop on my NIN41 for BCNM40, I get invites... No one bothers my WHM44 when I'm tele-taxi'ing on it... They don't even ask for tele's... T_T

you did, however, include /drk for rdm, which is used exclusively for events (basically the same as blm/nin) which is why I mentioned it, it's very much a subpar exp sub.

If it's needed for end game plays, I'll add it.

BTW, I've never heard of anyone leveling /NIN for BLM before, but plenty of RDM's have grumbled about being asked to get /DRK by Dynamis and Sky LS leaders.

Right now, it seems to me that /NIN can be useful to BLM, but /DRK is necessary to RDM75. That's why RDM/DRK gets the thumbs up. :thumbsup:

war/mnk is a tank out to 72, and mnk/war is the same job ability list, more hp, more vit, and with better damage mitigation (counterstance isn't available subbed) I guess I don't see what the issue is, unless you don't really consider war/mnk a tank

Fewer defense gear, and multiple personal experience of seeing them trying to tank and fail--including myself. Counterstance doesn't seem to work well on Tough or higher. (Guard seems to have plenty of potential, if only someone can cap it.)

I need testimonies from presently tanking Monk players to change my mind on MNK tanking.

Once upon a time, MNK's may have been tanks, but is its performance acceptable these days? (I don't even see WAR/MNK's tanking past Qufim much anymore... Kinda tempted to drop them from the Tank list.) Damage mitigation is the king now--NIN tops the game at that, and PLD's can get HP back after getting hit via cures, trading MP for enmity.

We have responsibility not to mislead newbies who read this guide down the wrong paths--don't want someone to read this, goes out and tries MNK/WAR tanking, gets bad reputation, ends up with no invites, and dies lot's of times in those rare parties, and finally returns to blame me (and I point to you) for quitting the game. :wasted:

The hazard of making a guide is that someone impressionable may actually read it and believe you...

you listed pup(arrow) and frankly, I have a hard time believing that the automaton really tanks better than a monk could, except that the automaton isn't a party member (you could make an argument for bst tank if you allowed an EM pet, for instance.)
Automaton doesn't tank; the PUP does. Automaton is the cure bot.

Pre Lv.50 (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=18;mid=1158690847290409998)
Post Lv. 50 (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=18;mid=115868872796303242)
Collection of tanking testimonies (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=18;mid=11602707296878330)(There's also a video of a PUP solo'ing VT Colibri or something, but I didn't bookmark that.)

Truthfully, I see PUP's as better solo'er than tank, and MNK can definitely generate more enmity than PUP's--but, PUP's cure bot is too nice to ignore...

as for chaining VT, I can do that on my sam/war as solo tank in the 40's and 50's (before enmity gear, scorpion harness, etc. etc.) so I'd have no reason to think that monk couldn't do it at earlier levels
That's pretty impressive. :shocked: How were you holding the monsters? Just damage and Provoke?

Too bad SAM such a lousy tank at lower levels, otherwise I'd be tempted to add SAM to the tank list...

I guess maybe some of the confusion is that I'm not certain how much endgame and events should be in consideration for what to list, and how much this is just (pre-merit) exp.
For "Tank(↘)", pretty much able to tank in exp party for the vast majority of Lv.10 to Lv.72 range, and more than a handful of special fights would be sufficient.
It's pretty lax, really, except for the "all level range" requirement.

I guess I'm shaped by personal experience; I got more unsolicited invites on RDM than WHM, before Lv.41. >_>; NIN was even more popular, though, between 37 to 41.

Even now, whenever I hop on my NIN41 for BCNM40, I get invites... No one bothers my WHM44 when I'm tele-taxi'ing on it... They don't even ask for tele's... T_T

see, it's been the reverse in my experience (I frequently had to go anon as I was leveling whitemage, and still do, honestly.) although I leveled whitemage first and in the initial two waves of NA to 75 (back when the general thought was that a party *must* have two full healers (whm rdm smn/whm) and at least one whitemage, at all levels.) server variation may matter too.

I got many more invites on whitemage unsolicited than either ninja or paladin (I'm working on redmage, I'll let you know) but I've gotten unsolicited invites on thf and war and sam with some regularity too (sam the most frequently of these three DD actually o.o; I blame my shorter name and early alphabet listing) so I may not be representative of the 'normal' case.

how much players go anon has alot to do with frequency of unsolicited invites, as does whether or not they tend to accept unsolicited invites. which is part of why I was including seek times into the discussion- there's a lot more that goes into whether you get invites without seeking or not than just what job you are.


BTW, I've never heard of anyone leveling /NIN for BLM before, but plenty of RDM's have grumbled about being asked to get /DRK by Dynamis and Sky LS leaders.

sky? that's a relatively new one for me actually, lol. (the only things I've ever used rdm/drk on extensively are hnms like cerberus for GoH prevention - especially if low-manning it - and DL for oblivion smash) bind / silence / etc usually work better for the relevant sky 2hours in my experience. anyway: blm/nin gets used in limbus and salvage somewhat, and sometimes for low manning certain hnm when the blackmages may need to kite and/or should expect to take some hate.

That's pretty impressive. How were you holding the monsters? Just damage and Provoke?

Too bad SAM such a lousy tank at lower levels, otherwise I'd be tempted to add SAM to the tank list...

without getting into too much detail, pretty much just damage and provoke yes. you mitigate damage with seigan / third eye, which is functionally an utsusemi: ichi (there's some nuance here but it's the simplest way to think about it) so you have basically the same tools that a war/nin has to tank with - with faster tp gain for more weaponskills as secondary hate generation. (and meditate to balance the loss of warcry) post 50 sam gains soboro sukehiro which is functionally a (slightly) slow ridill - with this taking and keeping hate is almost too easy :x

I'm also not sure what you consider the 'good' tanks in lower levels (in dunes I consider pretty much every melee capable of wearing harness or scale or lizard as a 'tank'; and in qufim I consider any job capable of wearing harness or scale a tank) in kazham mandragora's are a joke to tank if you can wear chainmail (which is all the traditional tanks as well as sam and dark and bst) unless you're discussing the 30-40 range, where it's admittedly very dependent on what and where you hunt who can tank or not.

all that said, I'm not sure that sam should be put on the list as a tank(arrow) simply because it's not really a good use of a samurai (you lose out on close to 10% dot output from the sam in the process) I mentioned monk because monk doesn't particularly sacrifice anything to tank at higher levels (most go mnk/nin already anyway for aoe-absorbing shadows) but I'll defer to your decision on getting a monk who tanks regularly in here instead. (I've got a long list of credentials from level 75 monk tanks, but that's not very useful for an all levels test.)

see, it's been the reverse in my experience (I frequently had to go anon as I was leveling whitemage, and still do, honestly.) although I leveled whitemage first and in the initial two waves of NA to 75 (back when the general thought was that a party *must* have two full healers (whm rdm smn/whm) and at least one whitemage, at all levels.) server variation may matter too.
Hmm. Too bad other WHM's who also level 10+ other jobs have not chimed in. It'd be interesting to know if my or your experience is the the anomaly.

sky? that's a relatively new one for me actually, lol. (the only things I've ever used rdm/drk on extensively are hnms like cerberus for GoH prevention - especially if low-manning it - and DL for oblivion smash) bind / silence / etc usually work better for the relevant sky 2hours in my experience.
*shrug* My sister is old school RDM, and she was asked to bring RDM/DRK to Sky at times in the past, though I forgot for what. (But, it was for Dynamis Lord which she originally leveled DRK for--that's 37 levels of DRK/RDM... ^_^;;; )

anyway: blm/nin gets used in limbus and salvage somewhat, and sometimes for low manning certain hnm when the blackmages may need to kite and/or should expect to take some hate.
Interesting.

I'm also not sure what you consider the 'good' tanks in lower levels (in dunes I consider pretty much every melee capable of wearing harness or scale or lizard as a 'tank'; and in qufim I consider any job capable of wearing harness or scale a tank) in kazham mandragora's are a joke to tank if you can wear chainmail (which is all the traditional tanks as well as sam and dark and bst) unless you're discussing the 30-40 range, where it's admittedly very dependent on what and where you hunt who can tank or not.
At the very low levels, damage mitigation is not that much of a problem except for Pugils and maybe Giants--if only people would keep up with the armor and the party has two people who can cure. The problem is enmity.

WAR/MNK is almost ideal, with Provoke and Boost x2 every 30 seconds. Great Axe is stronger than almost every weapon except Polearm, to boot. PLD can secure monsters just as well, and lighten the curing load on mages, but needs to rest between battles. DRG's damage output relative to other DD's is impressive enough to be called broken, and can easily tank on that during Valkurum Dunes levels.<